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OP question #4 - Because I am terrible at reading koshi, so im not going to bother with him day 1 this game. The only time I was ever right about his alignment was in nuclear because he was obvious as fuck in that game that he was scum. I've said multiple times what I thought about that garbage policy vote in my arguments with papa smurf, it was terrible which is actually ironically a towntell from koshi since he plays like ass as town lol.
OP question #1 post 2 - already did that
OP question #3 - post 2 -you would have to understand our history to understand the non 3P read, its completely meaningless as anything other then a joke. These questions really died off at the end here...
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new reads:
pandain - null, that post is bad but could be made from either alignment. I'd look into the people attacking it because thats basically how I feel as town when scum tries to go after my "scummy posting" They hound you for anything and everything and thats exactly what people are doing to this poor guy. Keep an eye on anyone that jumped on this shit.
Rayn - tough to tell, leaning town though. if me snb and him are all town this game is gonna be easy. I also like and encourage his posting this game. In fact, this game has been pretty analytic so far and it brings a tear to my eye to see such a good game so far.
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Concerns: Koshi and rayn arguing (different alignments?), sn0_man's bitterness from last game (not a bad vig shot if he's gonna just tunnel people he's mad at)
blubbdavid....better be SLYTHERIN.
##vote:blubbdavid
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On September 12 2013 21:01 blubbdavid wrote:I went to bed after saying hi. I have my eye on Koshi. Not only have his opening posts been as useful as a wet sack of dead flies, that scumhunting of his against SnB and some other posts have led to that bandwagon. A very not so justified wagon. further: Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 20:19 Koshi wrote:On September 12 2013 20:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Actually why everyone of those? Reasons are in the thread. SnB for the start + he hasn't given me a better target.WoS for general uselessness. Pandain for worst opening post. Goodkarma, not impressed. Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 08:28 Koshi wrote:
This looks so much like Sicilian. I am leading SnB wagon of justice and VA his scumbuddy is trying to protect him. Could it be? Or not? Who knows. See what happens in the next episode "when Koshi wakes up".
for now ##Vote: Koshi
gn SnB has very well given you a scumtarget in the form of VA. Now SnB and VA are not on my scumradar, they rather look like two butthurt townies. But I will look into them further. and lastly: Show nested quote +On September 12 2013 13:35 kushm4sta wrote:
honestly i dont even care if i get mislynched d1. d1 sucks azz anyway.
/martyr If you want to help town, then how should this post be useful in anyway?
blubbdavid I would like your opinion on what you think of my analysis, it will tell me a lot of your alignment.
Ok so you pick a random person that is pretty much null to everyone in Koshi and decide to push him. ok great.
but wait your entire case just consists of his posting is "bad" which isn't really indicative of anything, just your opinion. Also note that koshi plays way worse as town.
You then go on to say that me and SnB just look like "butthurt" townies, perhaps trying to somehow gain some cred with us but then you leave us open to suspicion by saying "you will look into us later"
wtf?
then for good measure you throw in a bad kush quote and say that the posting is trash, well ok we all knew that. illusionary participation.
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and as I post that I really dislike that grack just jumped on my wagon, weak
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posting about it and actually voting for it are miles apart my friend
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I can't see this game ending well for us at this rate, time to stop worrying about other games and play the game please.
There's 4 or 5 players that haven't done shit yet, you guys aren't lynching each other so just stop.
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I would disagree on WoS, his opening post was solid and real life should never be taken into account when forming scum reads. If you really want to look into it though, he's usually town when he gives these excuses since he probably gets really paranoid or whatever that people will think he's scum.
I can't read onegu for shit, so I honestly couldn't care less if he's vigged or whatever. He looks really scummy to me as both alignments in every game so no comment there.
Blubb's response to my case was satisfactory so doubt ill be leaving my vote there by the end of this cycle, but he needs to do a lot more then just that.
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On September 13 2013 04:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Also nobody has explained why Pandain's post is wrong in any way. Someone who's calling it bad/wrong explain.
I wrote a part on that in my big post earlier if you read it. The people that jumped on pandain should be scrutinized heavily. I think there's at least 1 scum there.
also OP concerns me more if hes just gonna come in and drop big weird posts then peace. his questions werent particularly good either
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On September 13 2013 04:06 Papa_Smurf wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:02 VayneAuthority wrote:
I would disagree on WoS, his opening post was solid and real life should never be taken into account when forming scum reads. If you really want to look into it though, he's usually town when he gives these excuses since he probably gets really paranoid or whatever that people will think he's scum.
I can't read onegu for shit, so I honestly couldn't care less if he's vigged or whatever. He looks really scummy to me as both alignments in every game so no comment there.
Blubb's response to my case was satisfactory so doubt ill be leaving my vote there by the end of this cycle, but he needs to do a lot more then just that. But what I'm saying is, Vayne, is that he said "I won't be here Friday and Saturday". Then, goes and lurks first half of d1. There's a disconnect there from a town perspective. If I recall correctly, he was one of the more active posters d1 of aperature no?
I don't see the disconnect. He said what he had to at that point in the game and was done. You can't fault people for the game progessing without them. I barely remember him being in aperture so I doubt he was active in that game.
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On September 13 2013 04:14 Papa_Smurf wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2013 11:19 debears wrote:
I'm gonna guess most people have a town read on clarity and wave of shadow. Possibly BH too. Just based on filter size
VE Koshi and Slam doing decently as well Vayne this post is when i first replaced d1 of aperature
if you read it, it was mostly a bunch of garbage and he turned out to be 3rd party
I am just going to have to once again disagree at this point. WoS is a bit hard to read though so no way am I giving him a free pass like SnB.
my day one lynch candidates at this point are blubbdavid (less after his response), grackaroni (still think that post that me and WoS picked up on is super sketchy), and one of rayn/koshi, cant decide who is town of them yet but one is scum for sure.
vig targets - onegu, zealos, etc all the people that refuse to do anything.
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I don't think its silly at all koshi. You both feel off to me but my gut read is that you are both not scum. I don't think you staged your little argument either.
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On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much.
you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend.
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On September 13 2013 04:31 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. Panda his first post was bad. Last one a bit better but mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OP will come back and dazzle you guys.
that's kinda my point. it was the perfect kind of bad post that scum would pounce all over. prove me wrong by telling me why you and grack are town if you think im bullshitting.
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On September 13 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote:Okay debears (and everyone). This is what i am saying: Your points of Pandain being scum are: 1) His town read on SnB based on bad reasons 2) policy lynch kushmasta because not helping 3) stance on Zealos (town) and then calling him a good lynch because lurker Now let's compare Pandain's / Old Partner's posts: + Show Spoiler +Pandain:On September 12 2013 13:24 Pandain wrote:
I'm sorry I'm not going to be able to fully make my thoughts fully comprehensible and eloquent, instead I will just get them written down. College struggles.
Alot of what I was going to say was already said by WoS Old Panther, however I have some comments to them.
VA seems town due to the fact he's actively moving the thread forward for a long time.
GK seems town(recognizing the one argument was silly and a distraction)
I agree with OP's catch on SnB reading up on Papasmurf coaching meaning that snb is probably town. Means he's already investigating outside and looking into matters, which maybe I'm wrong but I don't think is a mafia move.
Papa_Smurf, you asked others to not spam, but spam isn't just useless content, it's a bunch of small thoughts spread out across many posts. Consolidate your thoughts please for the sake of the thread.
Zealos seems town because if someone else was Isaac(who is very likely to be a character due to the fact he's the main party leader in the original GS, thanks Wikipedia!), then he would get counterclaimed. And Isaac isn't evil. I don't know if it's forbidden to reason like this, based on character names, but that's what I got.
Honestly not sure about OP's alignment. People who make posts like that are usually from my experience really really really good, and that means they can do anything. Main thing to keep out for is what OP actually does in the game, not what he just says.
I am getting a bad read on Grackaroni due to the fact he's being very moderate in his opinions, always saying "in my opinion, I feel", trying to defend himself rather than offer actual opinions, or he's just spamming. Not sure if Scum though.
Also to put it bluntly I'm going to lynch kushm4sta unless he stops posting like shit. Also he's being pretty crude(like crude troll), and I really don't appreciate it. He'll be useless to the thread basically, and with more posts I see while writing this he has ignored OP's plea to stop spamming, showing he won't listen.
I agree though that lurkers should be incredibly suspicious, there are five of them in Onegu, blubdavid,raynpelikoneet, Sn0_Man, and Zealos. On September 12 2013 14:03 Pandain wrote:
Ignore this post except for one key point I realized so we can stay on track of what matters: lurkers.
Zealos's post doesn't mean anything I think; I think he was referring to his name in the mythical realm known as real life. Wouldn't make sense otherwise.
Also kush I'll probably change from you, I was once the huge spammer too. I'll just ask you to step it up. Old Partner:On September 12 2013 12:31 Old Partner wrote:Wow, so this started! I've finally read up to the most recent page, so here are my notes so far and my statements and questions. + Show Spoiler [notes] +
Up through P6
Koshi says policy is "lynch scum". joking? meaningful? what does this mean. says that grack is not a troll. votes SnB for saying "ok but how will you make sure the rest of town doesn't lynch not scum" in response to policy post. wtf?
SnB notes PS is coaching a newbie game and asks about it. This is actually pretty next-level and tells me he is town. why is PS and Koshi voting SnB for trying to figure out who PS is? SnB noticing PS in a newbie game and making this connection... means he is probably town. This kind of extra level of thinking is something a town who is honestly trying to figure things out would do.
Grack is policy lynching kush. I am okay with this-- kush is illegible. TL towns don't policy lynch nearly enough.
P7
Koshi's thing about SnB's word choice is stupid. his word choice being different could be because he has a different alignment, but could be do to any other number of variables, including being presented with a novel "policy"
Kush is trolling and I feel stronger about grack's policy vote on kush. His aggression towards kush seems a little over the top but it's okay.
Vayne comes in and is actually making a lot of sense. I'm glad he was here at this time.
Papasmurf swapping votes to VA seems pretty obviously a knee-jerk reaction. Judging from his word choice, high post count, and the way he moves his votes in response to innocuous statements, he is probably BH. I know you think this kind of thing is real pressure BH/PS, but it's really not. all it does is make your vote meaningless. I revise my read in papasmurf from scummish to townish if he is really BH-- this is how BH plays as town.
Vayne's post #137 further reinforces my idea that he is town. His questions are good but don't take into account who papasmurf is.
I don't like SnB's #138 though. His responses aren't really meaningful and dont' promote discussion, but it looks like he's contributing. If SnB is scum, I'd be more convinced by hist post #138 than by the other posts he's made before that.
P8
Papasmurf is being typical blazinghand in his argument with VA. VA equivocating in post #143 sounds like backtracking, but when you've got PS/BH on you for every little turn of phrase, posts like that get made. Still, a point against him.
What is Koshi saying here?
SnB's post here isn't scummy but it's not very well-thought-out. why ask all these questions in one post? of course you don't find someone defending you worrying, because he's DEFENDING you. VA's defense is reasonable and people's attacks on SNB prior to P7 second half are unreasonable, but VA has definitely defended SnB on relatively shakey grounds with SnB only had two votes on him. Who is SnB to say that VA wasn't "trying to be right" as so many scum do? What we have here is SnB 'wants' VA to be town, because he doesn't like the idea of being defended by scum. Not saying it's true/false, but SnB what you're doing here is stating a conclusion then looking for evidence to back it up, rather than the other way around.
PS/BH with the classic "dumb or scum" statement.
P9
VA's "my two cents" and "lol" strike me as odd in 162. Would you say that as town? off-handedly, sure. I like VA for town still. I could see him diffusing tension after this, though. I have questions for him.
WoS's inactivity claim strikes me as very convenient. This should be considered a mark against him regardless of circumstances.
GK's entrance is solid. It's the kind of question someone who just caught up reading would ask-- he's actually reading the thread for sure.
So, now that I'm caught up, a few statements and questions
1. I know this game is very conversational, but all the spam and one-lining makes it difficult to read and analyze. Some people have that style, and it doesn't take that much longer to read, but it will take me a little bit of time to get used to it. I am glad that people are getting involved! 2. Yes, I am a smurf. I have played on TL before and thought I could use a new start... the hosts know about this and are okay with it. 3. I know we're long past policy, but since I am a smurf and don't have a history written out of what policies I like, here are my thoughts on policy: i. TL towns do not policy lynch enough, not by far ii. the policy lynch should be used D1, not any time close to lylo, since the d1 lynch is the least useful iii. the policy lynch must be stated with full willingness to follow through, and mislynch, as a result iiii. policy lynch should be used on fake-claimers, liars, lurkers, and players whose play is generally unacceptable. v. I may have a scumread today I consider more strongly than a policy lynch. I will be open as possible with my reads and thoughts so that i can be convinced, and convincing. I think our best play on D1 can be to policy lynch though... it makes play stronger. I am aware this is a controversial opinion, but it is also a good one. If you disagree with me, that is okay 4. This is @vayneauthority: despite the fact that you have interacted obliquely with Koshi, you do not mention him ever. Do you think he is town, or he is scum? What do you think of his initial vote on SnB for questioning his "policy" of lynching scum? What do you think of his "policy"? Why haven't you weighed in on him yet? 5. this is @SnB: you think koshi is "uncomfortable" and "projecting"... and you also say he is "silly". do you have a scumread on him or not? 5.b this is @SnB: what do you think of VA, in light of my notes on him? Would you say your perception of him is colored by his defense of you? taking that into account, do you see why he is viewed as scummy? 6. this is @papa_smurf: why did you smurf into this game? Are you really BH? After you unvote SnB you don't mention him again. Do you still have a scumread on him, or do you think he is town because VA is scum? On September 12 2013 13:07 Old Partner wrote:now I am really caught up! More statements and questions accompany these notes. + Show Spoiler [P11 and P12 notes[/spoiler] +P10
GK's question of grack is reasonable
grack's response is also seems reasonable
wow, I really like GK's followup analysis/summary in post #183. I hadn't realized this sort of contradiction in grack's reasoning. After all, it does seem weird for VA to have a strong townread so suddenly, but he did give a reason. the natural point to turn on thwn would be to engage that reason in discussion/analysis.
WoS's followup looks town-motivated to me. I don't like that he calls SnB's unusually strong effort not-townie. SnB seems like a somewhat obvious town to me at least in terms of how he's thinking. If his usual level of effort is less than this, and he stepped it up, he should be town. WoS could really not know what to think of this, but i dont' see why this would not be a towntell for SnB. I haven't been paying an appropriate amount of attention to grack, and WoS's read looks like a solid one to me. He is jumping the gun by voting on small evidence, but perhaps that is his style-- all ##vote and no ##fos. I will be interested to see his target's regracktion to this attack. A standard call-out of a /confirmer and a name-claimer, nothing too special at the end there. Overall, I am less interested in a WoS lynch today after this post. If he will be posting like this regularly he is worth keeping around.
His statement on Kush intrigues me. I am not familiar with Kush's meta other than that many players consider him bad/trollish.
I don't understand VA's non-3p read. That's not a useful read to make at all. 8(
Ah, here we see debears smurf-slipping, as mentioned to me. Papa_smurf, what a chump!
VA is backtracking and equivocating again. This is not what I would expect a town player to do. his response to the debears smurfslip is immediate suspicion based on... lying?
P11
It looks like now there is a discussion about Aperture mafia and these players interacted there. PS/DB's read on VA's early strong read (something that scum would do, say, on a townie to collect towncred) is supposed to not make sense given that PS/DB played with VA in Aperture.
I'm not sure why PS/DB backs off from VA here. 1. @VA, if you are accusing PS/DB of not understanding your meta and hiding that fact based on events in Aperture, you should quote, link, or otherwise point us towards the incrongruity. 2. @WoS, I would like to know about your read on SnB. SnB's finding out that PS is coaching a newbie game, then asking him about it, strikes me as townie. After all, making that connection is not something he'd have to do as scum. Townies inherently are trying to find things out about the game, whereas scum are trying to conceal. You also make a meta note that SnB is trying much harder to help and be productive this game. Why doesn't this result in a townread on SnB for you? I'd like to hear your thought process. 3. @VA (again), I'd like to know specifically what lead to your non-3p read on WoS. You say it was just a joke, but this is the second time you have backtracked/equivocated. I'm willing to accept it as a joke, especially with the smiley face, but what brought it to mind? Why, in a post in which you explicitly buddy WoS, do you say your read on him is non-3p, and not say, townie? I know you have history with him, but surely you'd prefer to just call him town? 4 @PS/DB, I am okay with kush's policy vote on WoS-- it is not a scumtell. I am willing to policy lynch kush based on his previous play, but we have not come to that part of the day yet. There is much to see and talk about first. Would you be interested in policy lynching kush? unless we have a vigilante, we can expect him to be a burden at LYLO. he has said and analyzed nothing, and his taste in culinary television is questionable at best. - Read on SnB (your point (1) of Pandain being scum) - Policy on kush (your point (2) of Pandain being scum) Differences:- Pandain gives other reads with reasoning - Old Partner says: 1) "This happened then that happened" 2) "These guys could be scum or they could be town"
TLDR; Why are people sold on Pandain being scum but ignoring OP, as they have same (bad) arguments, but Pandain has some good ones too, when OP does not?
because the people pushing panda are scum bro. Look at grack and koshi and tell me what you think, there's scum there.
also I doubt panda would buddy blubbdavid with a simple gut read if they are both scum. I don't think they are scum together.
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On September 13 2013 04:35 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:32 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:31 Koshi wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. Panda his first post was bad. Last one a bit better but mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OP will come back and dazzle you guys. that's kinda my point. it was the perfect kind of bad post that scum would pounce all over. prove me wrong by telling me why you and grack are town if you think im bullshitting. lol. Since when are people scum for jumping on bad town posts...
you've played games with me, whenever Im town how often do scum try to push my lynch then realize its not going to work? thats like every game =/
you only need to look back to persona to see yamato, crazo, etc trying to get me lynched for my bad posting early. its VERY common
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On September 13 2013 04:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Vayne why are you hard-defending all the scummers?
if by scummers you mean town then well it should be obvious. Im pushing for a correct lynch here. There are good cases and concerns being drowned out by these panda/kush pushes and I dont like either of them.
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On September 13 2013 04:39 Koshi wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:36 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:35 Koshi wrote:On September 13 2013 04:32 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:31 Koshi wrote:On September 13 2013 04:28 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:25 Koshi wrote:
I was suspicious of rayn in Persona. Just not on day 1.
VA is making a dumb argument for lynching me / rayn. VA doesn't do that much. you and grack were the ones to jump on panda's opening post and that's probably my biggest scumtell in this game so far. I don't think you should downplay that my friend. Panda his first post was bad. Last one a bit better but mehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. OP will come back and dazzle you guys. that's kinda my point. it was the perfect kind of bad post that scum would pounce all over. prove me wrong by telling me why you and grack are town if you think im bullshitting. lol. Since when are people scum for jumping on bad town posts... you've played games with me, whenever Im town how often do scum try to push my lynch then realize its not going to work? thats like every game =/ you only need to look back to persona to see yamato, crazo, etc trying to get me lynched for my bad posting early. its VERY common But you didn't try to make a good post. What Yamato did last game is more like X (I forgot who) now going after Kush for bad posting.
so essentially your argument is pandain is trying too hard and doesn't bring any new info = therefore lynch? Because that makes a lot more sense then what you have been saying so far.
There's too many people pushing his lynch though so I don't think he's scum.
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On September 13 2013 04:42 Sn0_Man wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:38 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:36 Sn0_Man wrote:
Vayne why are you hard-defending all the scummers? if by scummers you mean town then well it should be obvious. Im pushing for a correct lynch here. There are good cases and concerns being drowned out by these panda/kush pushes and I dont like either of them. We agree that kush is a terrible push. Panda seems like scum based on his posts (have you read them yet? its all scum motivated). Whats your "good cases and concerns"? like you want us to lynch Koshi? get real. PS you aren't calling me scum yet what happened? I think you rolled scum and ur balls disappeared.
yea ive read them and ive expressed my concerns on him being lynchbait. I just posted my lynches too: blubbdavid and grack are probably top priority at this point but you're right I wouldnt mind a koshi lynch.
Why exactly do I have to call you scum again? Are you confusing me with rayne?
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On September 13 2013 04:54 Sn0_Man wrote:
The only think that is giving me doubts on lynching pandain is how bad this stuff is. Like, scum QT wouldn't let him post this stuff would it?
"my content which is kick-ass for the most part"
o.o
I mean, I feel somewhat cruel but... o.o
Also Vayne you are doing some really weird flip flopping on blubbers and your case on grack seems terrible. Based on P4 i expect you to be more useless and more OMGUS and less wrong.
mandatory no point in meta-ing me since I change my playstyle completely from game to game
the OMGUS thing was on purpose, if that wasn't clear. We never really discussed postgame that much.
You're right I am flip flopping on blubb because I'm stubborn. I think my case is good but his response to my case is also good.
my case on grack is not terrible, him and koshi jumping on panda like that is prime scum material.
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why did you expect me to call you scum btw? that was weird as fuck sn0_man. unless you got me confused with rayn which happens a lot
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On September 13 2013 04:57 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On September 13 2013 04:56 VayneAuthority wrote:On September 13 2013 04:54 Sn0_Man wrote:
The only think that is giving me doubts on lynching pandain is how bad this stuff is. Like, scum QT wouldn't let him post this stuff would it?
"my content which is kick-ass for the most part"
o.o
I mean, I feel somewhat cruel but... o.o
Also Vayne you are doing some really weird flip flopping on blubbers and your case on grack seems terrible. Based on P4 i expect you to be more useless and more OMGUS and less wrong. mandatory no point in meta-ing me since I change my playstyle completely from game to game the OMGUS thing was on purpose, if that wasn't clear. We never really discussed postgame that much. You're right I am flip flopping on blubb because I'm stubborn. I think my case is good but his response to my case is also good. my case on grack is not terrible, him and koshi jumping on panda like that is prime scum material. Can you look at what i have written about OP and give your thoughts plz?
I actually did respond to your OP stuff, look through my posts you must have missed it.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view5/4617516/draco-malfoy-the-sorting-hat-o.gif)
