EPTDesert Mini Mafia - Page 148
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
If you can't convince town to not lynch oats, a fakeclaim will delay it for a cycle but he'll likely get lynched anyway and you will be under more scrutiny as well. As for the vet claim, you could have simply claimed vet, rather than claiming to have been shot. The sk claim was fine although not really believable, worth a shot. | ||
Papa_Smurf
336 Posts
On September 13 2013 07:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: bleh.. why do i even try to explain anything when people are not even reading.. If everyone says you fucked up, you most likely did. You need to listen to what me, clarity, and sn0 are saying. You think we are freaking joking? 1) NEVER FAKECLAIM. IT ALWAYS CAUSES MASS CONFUSION AND CAN OUT ACTUAL BLUE ROLES 2) Post less. Read more. Think about what you are posting before you post. Can't say the rest right now. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On September 13 2013 08:04 Clarity_nl wrote: Here's the thing. In each case the fakeclaim wasn't really necessary and was very reckless. If Oats was scum (and don't tell me you were 100% sure) you would've lost the game for town. If you can't convince town to not lynch oats, a fakeclaim will delay it for a cycle but he'll likely get lynched anyway and you will be under more scrutiny as well. As for the vet claim, you could have simply claimed vet, rather than claiming to have been shot. The sk claim was fine although not really believable, worth a shot. Could you explain to me better. How is it worse for me to save Oats (true, i did not know he was 100% town - but i was pretty damn sure) over a lurker lynch? A lurker lynch is most likely to be town anyways (because scum can easily take a town!lurker and push it to them - even if there was a scum!lurker). Why does that most likely lose the game for the town if Oats is scum (which was not the case - i would NEVER fakeclaim to save anyone who i don't have a 99%+ read on)? If Oats started playing so that other people could see he was town - HELL HE COULD HAVE CLAIMED COP ON D2 AS HE WAS A FUCKING COP - why would he get lynched on D2? It's not like "rayn's fakeclaim got Oats lynched on D2". Why is claiming only vet better than claiming vet + shot? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
claiming vet with BP up is colossal amounts of stupid | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On September 13 2013 08:34 Dandel Ion wrote: Clarity is a doo-doo claiming vet with BP up is colossal amounts of stupid If you want to give constructive critisism could you even look at the situation and my pov? | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I was "agreeing". maybe it looks better like this: claiming "vet with BP STILL up" WOULD BE colossal amounts of stupid BUT LUCKILY NOBODY DID THAT | ||
yamato77
11589 Posts
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
Anyway rayn is just repeating himself and telling people they're not listening so I'm kinda done with the subject really. | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Regarding fakeclaims (since that seems to be the discussion topic)... they're not good. I understand the individual short-term objectives behind each of your claims (saving Oats, etc), but that analysis fails to take into account the much more important long-term ramifications of your actions. The main one being your in-game perception. Towns often want to sheep level-headed town leaders, who they perceive as both in-control and objective. When you start fake-claiming at the drop of a hat, you come across as emotional and spazztic. It's no coincidence that people weren't listening to you in the early game - because your play in the early game (exacerbated by the fake claims) didn't project a "town leader" persona. It destroyed a lot of the credibility you had in the thread, which is a shame because you're a damn good player when you keep your emotions in check. In regards to the individual claims themselves, I think the justifications behind them begin to break down when you start to analyze more of these long-term ramifications: On September 13 2013 06:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here is it: My mason claim: - To keep Oats, obvious townie alive. Definitely helped town, would have helped more if Oats was not a retard and would have realized he should go with the plan. Mafia could have shot me (because scum don't want confirmed town alive). Even if i was scum Oats should have gone with it, because if he get's shot that will point fingers on me as he'll flip non-mason. Yes you saved Oats, however the claim was so sudden and confusing that it pushed the town to lynch a random lurker (FirmTofu) and removed a lot of potential vote controversy and information. The claim was one of the huge factors in destroying the possibility of a productive Day 1 lynch. Furthermore, Oats ended up getting lynched anyway the next day. Your claim only temporarily saved Oats and created a ton of confusion (bad) in the process. My getting shot claim: There was a possibility scum hit doc's target and debears was making a big play. I could not believe he was a vet as i was (and i was correct lol). Bad decision, but whatevs. Me claiming to be shot lead me after marv on D2-D3 start. HE was very eager in knowing what happened with the shots N1 and N2. Scum tend to want to know if there really is SK or not. Town doesn't care so much, they need to kill any anti-town. This wasn't too terribly bad on a macro level, however it was still a huge mistake. Firstly, claiming veteran is a really bad idea in general, even when you get shot. You basically tell scum exactly what happened with their KP, which they wouldn't know otherwise. Also, your claim actually created an information advantage for the scum here. Scum knew they had 1KP. Town (and myself) ran around for a while trying to figure out where a 2nd KP came from that never existed. It's small (and was ultimately inconsequential), but creating information advantages for scum is generally a really bad idea. My SK claim last night: I tried to fake i am SK so that Onegu would think he loses unless he shoots me. :D This was OK. Anyway Rayn, the larger point here is that playing town is more than about pushing your reads at the expense of everything else in the thread. You can't walk into a thread and go "fuck everything else, I'm going to push my reads", because you're going to fuck thread atmosphere in the process. I think you'll notice that when you began to calm down (after Day 2), all of a sudden everyone started listening to you and you led two scum lynches. If there's anythign to take away from this game, this is it. You have the scum-hunting skills, but you'll be a fantastic player when you learn how to play diplomat a bit more. | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
On September 13 2013 09:50 Clarity_nl wrote: Hapa any thoughts on the day 1 replacement on the main lynch target? From a hosting perspective, I don't believe players should be replaced until after deadlines, or else moderation actions start to interfere greatly with game actions. It's not an egregious mistake, but something that hosts should pay a bit more heed to IMO. From an in-game perspective, not lynching the replacement is almost always the correct move. | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
On September 13 2013 09:45 Hapahauli wrote: @ Rayn Regarding fakeclaims (since that seems to be the discussion topic)... they're not good. I understand the individual short-term objectives behind each of your claims (saving Oats, etc), but that analysis fails to take into account the much more important long-term ramifications of your actions. The main one being your in-game perception. Towns often want to sheep level-headed town leaders, who they perceive as both in-control and objective. When you start fake-claiming at the drop of a hat, you come across as emotional and spazztic. It's no coincidence that people weren't listening to you in the early game - because your play in the early game (exacerbated by the fake claims) didn't project a "town leader" persona. It destroyed a lot of the credibility you had in the thread, which is a shame because you're a damn good player when you keep your emotions in check. In regards to the individual claims themselves, I think the justifications behind them begin to break down when you start to analyze more of these long-term ramifications: Yes you saved Oats, however the claim was so sudden and confusing that it pushed the town to lynch a random lurker (FirmTofu) and removed a lot of potential vote controversy and information. The claim was one of the huge factors in destroying the possibility of a productive Day 1 lynch. Furthermore, Oats ended up getting lynched anyway the next day. Your claim only temporarily saved Oats and created a ton of confusion (bad) in the process. This wasn't too terribly bad on a macro level, however it was still a huge mistake. Firstly, claiming veteran is a really bad idea in general, even when you get shot. You basically tell scum exactly what happened with their KP, which they wouldn't know otherwise. Also, your claim actually created an information advantage for the scum here. Scum knew they had 1KP. Town (and myself) ran around for a while trying to figure out where a 2nd KP came from that never existed. It's small (and was ultimately inconsequential), but creating information advantages for scum is generally a really bad idea. This was OK. I can see your point on Mason claim. I discussed with this with marv already, and as i told him i had a point, not only to claim. The real point (besides the "no fuck you are not lynching town!Oats") was Oats to go with the claim, and get me shot on N1 (as i was vet, why not shoot "confirmed townies" as scum). Oats however did not go with it, i dunno why. :/ Yeah, i see the point, it was probably bad. Actually me claiming i was shot did not create an info adv to scum imo. Tell me if you disagree here: - I claimed AFTER debears (scum already know what happened). - When i claimed (i am not scum), scum go, "wtf?? 2 KP? vigi? SK?" - I had reasons to believe debears is not a real vet (as i was, 2 vets lol?) - I wanted to know if he was scum fakeclaiming or something else (we would find out that later) What did that do; Most people didn't believe my claim, except scum. :D | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
I played pretty goddamn terrible this game. I didn't have enough time to invest in this game, and it pretty clearly showed in my play. Shout-out to Onegu for a very solid scum-game, and to marv for throwing yet another wrinkle in his scum-game that I have to see through next time >> | ||
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Hapahauli
United States9305 Posts
Actually me claiming i was shot did not create an info adv to scum imo. Tell me if you disagree here: - I claimed AFTER debears (scum already know what happened). - When i claimed (i am not scum), scum go, "wtf?? 2 KP? vigi? SK?" - I had reasons to believe debears is not a real vet (as i was, 2 vets lol?) - I wanted to know if he was scum fakeclaiming or something else (we would find out that later) Well when debears flipped, scum should have clearly known there was no SK. Perhaps before debears' flip you have a point, but not after. But again, this is all minor, and the point is that these fake claims have the potential to create situations like these (which are never good for town). | ||
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
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raynpelikoneet
Finland43270 Posts
gg, Hapa listen to me earlier next time. I need to listen to you too^^ | ||
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
On September 13 2013 10:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay really, i am unable to explain myself. I see how fucking terrible my last post looks like. I have a game to play, i am learnign. Thanks for your input, especially people who said more than "you are fucking terrible, go home" :D Everyone said more than that :s | ||
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thrawn2112
United States6918 Posts
I think the mason claim was a bad idea, mostly because when it happened I didn't think Oats was going to be lynched so I don't think it served much of a purpose. After that all the other claims were pretty easy to ignore so I don't think they were very destructive. As far as my own play goes I didn't play very well except when I was looking at Onegu. I can't recall why I didn't push that lynch, other than having to spend most of my time talking to rayn. Guess I should have ignored that conversation? | ||
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