EPTAperture Mafia 2: Episode 2 - Page 12
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AxleGreaser
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 14:47 cakepie wrote: sure, talk to me. On September 08 2013 09:29 cakepie wrote: Cool, do you take responsibility for Oats or Vayne as well? Why did you ask this question about those two players? | ||
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AxleGreaser
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Where you said it. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19698472 On September 09 2013 14:52 AxleGreaser wrote: Why those two players? | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 15:03 cakepie wrote: Because confirming plausible crumb Fine I was hoping there was reason I didn't know about. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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but when I didn't know how you could pick two out of N and get yes I was worried. Looked like you knew the rest were scum kills somehow.... but that would be too silly so I was  Do you have any hints where to start understand this pokemon stuff. Where did Professor Oak come up? | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 08:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Tomorrow i am gonna make a recap of my claim and everything regarding it. You can then decide if it makes sense or not. I am also gonna mason someone town to prove my claim. If you after that think i am scum, you can lynch me. Rayn it will prove you have mason power not how or when you got it... | ||
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AxleGreaser
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Lynch WOS. TLDR: WOS got a scum PM WOS played to his win condition We lynch WOS. Old ground: Feel Read: WOS's early D1 I can summarise as I did then Axle: I see you doing stuff. What I don't see is you trying to find stuff out? Scummy. + Show Spoiler [details] + http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19633082 If you read the posts of WOS's before that thats what I get the feel read off. it could easily be wrong.. but its the first point Anti town mindset at end of D1. (During the Vote Axle Plan) WOS's mindeset and intention is focussed on self preservation not what is good for town. Scummier. He is concerned about what voting for Geript will do to him so he keeps his vote where it is of no value. + Show Spoiler [Details] + Previously covered HereLink At the end of the Day, WOS's vote is parked on a not going to get lynched target Shiaopi Reason: WOS: " I was most confident of Shiao being scum at the time, ... " (This is a potentially 'good' sentiment during the day but at the end of the day in majority lynch townies cooperate to get the job done. WOS did not. WOS was Anti Town) WOS: "I don't trust the way this setup works and I do not want to allow other people to perform actions on me when I have control over someone's ability to do so." Concern for own welfare as a towny who doesnt want actions performed on him by geript. On its own that sentiment is kinda plausible as Town (even if more likely to be scum) However he also holds this view. WOS: "I am fine with AG's plan for the record." Although my plan now means many more townies might have actions peformed on them WOS is fine with it. How can you be fine with the plan if it involves other townies doing what you yourself regard to be bad risk. Very Anti Town I simply cant marry all three into single townies mind set about how the game was going. I can however easily marry it into the single mindset of a scum. It is the timely conjunction of three incongruous points of view that is the problem and what makes it clearly an anti town mindset. + Show Spoiler + Here is how I imagine it. Those of you who are 3rd party may even know.... The thing you have to remember is just how confusing all this must have been to Scum and 3rd party. 1 Townie(non scum...anyway) has been campaigning all day to get lynched.. Seemed good as far as it went. You had some scum votes (see flips) safely buried in the wagon dujor. And some other votes spread around. Everything is going swimmingly. You might even decide to AFK. Suddenly another probable townie start campaigning to get ALL the votes on Geript and few on himself WAT WAT WAT !!!! Scum jump in the QT and chat or just simply face palm and read Axles filter again... WAT! However actual townies are so thankful for someone saying something good will happen they all pile on Geript... They also don't have scum QT to go talk in. So yehah Town pile onto Geript. Predominantly Scum and 3rd party stuff up, and like WOS are left out in the cold, to either take a 'principled' stance on Shiaopi or all cluster together in the voting besides .... WAT. New ground: So far the case is WOS is anti town, or not pro town. How to differentiate Scum WOS from 3rd Party WOS. Shiapoi gets role blocked (prob by Alak) and dies after masoning WOS. Who knows about Shiaopi? and why is he blocked N2 and then killed N3. True WOS did announce in the thread he was masoned to Shiaopi but its only a masoning and no mention was made of the KP that only arrives after masoning 4 people anyway. Why RB a mason? If WOS is scum not just anti town 3P it suddenly becomes much more likely Shiaopi will get killed. One particularly good reason... WOS doesnt like talking to me :( In later days Shiaopi went so quiet he was becoming suspiciously yet still scum shot him.... over much more active townies. It needs a reason, and the Reason is WOS told the scum QT to nk him. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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It is now A vote to Lynch. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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There is one caveat see below. He mentions ShiaoPis death here Dont read the next WOS post YET. The next post here might seem aggressive uncooperative + Show Spoiler + or (just fine if you feel the same?) If you try to interpret that post of his READ the spoiler below this. (Caveat) It could easily be interpreted as blatant attempt to have an escape route if the conversation goes wrong. If I you havent read the games I played with WOS it might seem waaaaaaay out of the blue. + Show Spoiler [our playing history] + We played in EGO where i was scum tunnelled him aggressively like crazy and got myself ROFL Lynched D1. We played in I Swear 2, again (before he outed his smurf) I was tunnelling him as a plan (it just seems to be a thing) that time a question was left hanging and I came back to it later. This might feel deja vu as scum or town to him. That time I didn't get either of us lynched. The amount of attitude in the WOS post surprised me, perhaps I was wishful thinking it. He does however say "I've been out of this game for too long and I'd really like to get back into it," You might want to see in the following posts, if that is what he does or just says he wants to do. In case you are wondering this is also the reason for the softly softly. And despite what you can make of our conversation those questions and answers (well some of them) were important to me finally deciding to actually go for this lynch today. I expect why will become more apparent as the day wears on. The conversation starts here and ends here. A question I ask myself about that exchange is what was WOS purpose and intent? Is it "I've been out of this game for too long and I'd really like to get back into it," + Show Spoiler + In between answering my questions this post get put in Vote Rayn 6 mins after previous post to me... doesn't really seem all that long to make a considered judgement. Agrees would lynch random bujm I min afetr previous post. Rayn observes at this point "yeah WoS is scum." I kind of agree those posts don't feel right. We then get long miscommunication post on Geript. I think its my fault I got misinterpreted. Some buddying "At least Axle is trying to get a read on me. What have you(to rayn) got? Bring it. This post nearly has me... I can just about see a towny might have said fuck it, to his win con and just let curiosity play itself out... Town BH may have done that a bit with his own life when he went along with my plan. + Show Spoiler + I hope he worked out in this game I couldn't reasonably be gaming such a scheme While just maybe a towny thought like that, any scum or 3P would in heart beat. Thus while its possible that a towny might think like that it is less likely and hence alignment indicative. Cases are not about 100% scum tells cases like this one are about wine that is harder to drink. The more I read WOS's filter the harder it is for me to believe he is playing for town. As a contrast, Consider Towny Shiaopi... Who told a possible scum about his powers, I expect in full knowledge he might get nk'd for it, but knowing it would leave a trail that could lead back to scum. Town take risks with their own lives town has player lives to spare. In a scum team every player life is precious. This is one of the asymmetries that lets me see a scum mindset. WOS values his life more than seems appropriate for a towny WOS. In this post WOS breaks for me something that is cardinal Rule... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19703054 If a probable towny appears to be doing something especially getting a read on me, I try to do nothing I can to interfere. Axle what do you think of Rayn? (BTW the answer is nothing while i am talking to WOS.) it goes on for a while And after I leave that happens to be about when WOS has done enough 'scum hunting...' and has a break. Lynch WOS today | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 22:11 Clarity_nl wrote: The one thing that really stood out to me was this post in response to Axle: Is there some sort of history here? Because I don't feel Axle has tunneled anyone this game. In fact, Axle has been really slow to draw conclusions which I actually give him towncred for. He seems willing to listen to arguments and tries to make slow deliberate decisions. So where is WoS coming from, when it comes to this post, if anyone can answer that? As it is easier for me than you to find it. specifically. I swear this is normal mini mafia had a superficially similar place, and probably the basis of "Axle, I know how you play and I am in no mood to be tunneled into infinity by you" me coming back to stuff I had been on about earlier. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18869999 (Gravman is WOS(town) I was scum) I had chosen gravman as my best plausible mislynch (or as wagon i could run and not flip...) ( I had run out of others having given town reads BH and some more) case much earlier as he was neither low hanging fruit nor too big a target. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18879764 See other post. I found the suddenly going after rayn... See this post... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19702961 more interesting because It doesn't involve me | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 22:34 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh Axle you bring up a good point. Whenever you tunnel me, you happen to be scum! Are you scum, Axle? Nope I am town, and not tunnelling you. I am catching you. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 22:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Once again, I say this: if I was scum, why in all that is holy would I bother returning to this thread and draw attention to myself when I could have coasted through the rest of this game? (like VE) Whether or not you think I've been doing a good job since I've come back or have proper motivations or 'agendas' that point alone should remain clear. It would be fucking STUPID. I dont think so. VE is a flipped 3rd party. You are not the equivalent of VE. You AFKing would have got you lynched. It was not you that drew the attention.. it was my posts saying i had questions. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 09 2013 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Axle: Can you make a clear consolidated post on why you think WoS is scum? I agree with him your posts are hardto read and i do not understand much of them, i would probably act like WoS is atm if i was in his position regardless of my alignment. WWas there some part of this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19707284 that was not clear? I tried hard to make the spoilers hide whatever details you didn't want to examine. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 10 2013 00:14 Stutters695 wrote: 3p is town for all intents and purposes unless we determine they're wincon revolves around killing. They may be that to you... 3P often require enough time to achieve their wincon and thus actively play against one side or the other. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 10 2013 00:37 Clarity_nl wrote: Okay well zentor didnt hes gonna get crushed, my point is we need a lynch >.< I have one I prepared earlier? | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 10 2013 00:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I really don't feel comfortable with a WoS lynch. Bleh. Would more or better case help? How much better? | ||
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AxleGreaser
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ATTENTION + Show Spoiler + Scum RB'd Shiaopi N2. Shiapi claimed the RB. As WOS says the plan was to include me in the mason QT. That did not happen. Alakslam the Scum RB was removed from the game D3. No one RB'd Shiaopi D3, Shiaopi sent in the request to add me to the "mason QT". (hi WOS) Shiaopi died but the Mason QT lives on. Apparently Shiaopi does not have to be alive for the "Mason" QT to still operate. WOS has not been entirely truthful about what he said happened in the Mason QT with Shiaopi. In this post http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19703097 On September 09 2013 05:29 WaveofShadow wrote: ...... He volunteered his role info (minus the KP only being usable on mason members for obvious reasons) to me despite me not having provided any reads or information to him yet. This is not what happened. Shiaopi did not "volunteered his role info" WOS specifically asked for information about the role. When Asked Shiaopi replied and explained the mechanics of 4 Players ... gave him 1 shot KP. Later WOS specifally asked if the KP was on mason members (more role fishing) at thatpoint hsiaopi lied and said it was "normal" KP. | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 10 2013 01:20 WaveofShadow wrote: So your entire scumread is because I said 'volunteered?' as a response to my asking? Ok you're right, I asked him but I used the word volunteered because he answered my question before receiving anything from me which showed me his towniness. I was not lying at all and you're calling me scum based on semantics. The fact that you were added to the QT (AND DIDNT FUCKING SAY ANYTHING) means Shiao was concerned over you being scum at some point as well since you could be shot if he added two more people. Why would you not try and get reads from me in QT rather than simply spy on me? I told the truth about absolutely everything in there. not out here though http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=19703124 On September 09 2013 05:38 WaveofShadow wrote: He actually didn't provide many reads of his own for a few days. He thought Geript was scum, though kita was town/hassy scum....maybe a townread on Hiro since he stopped trolling? He seemed genuinely confused by all the debears/OO shit.. haha reading through this QT again it seems I actually provided most of the reads and details. No wonder he (said he) trusted me. Oh and again I forget if I mentioned this but you were his second proposed mason target, Axle. His reasoning he gave when he recruited me was 'because he had trouble reading me,' so I suspect his reasoning may have been similar, possibly to keep you close so he could shoot you if necessary (if he though you might be scum). He was apparently RBed so that never happened. In the QT Initially SHiaopi stated he was NUllish to town on Axle. Later. Stated he would recruit Axle because he had solid town read on him.(Axle) | ||
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AxleGreaser
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In clarifying WOS said he would not have thought Shiaopi would have thought Axle was scummy. Not only did Shiaopi say he had solid town read on Axle just before he told WOS he would recruit me, but WOS claimed he would have thought shiaopi would think that... There is not confusion WOS simply conveiniently made up that "so I suspect his reasoning may have been similar, possibly to keep you close so he could shoot you if necessary (if he though you might be scum)." | ||
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AxleGreaser
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On September 10 2013 01:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Axle, has WoS had any idea you have been in the QT before you said so in thread? None at all I have posted nothing in the thread.  I wanted to see if he would report what was in it accurately. If you go back and read our friendly conversation you we will see me doing it now... | ||
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