Stream of consciousness: JustAnotherTownie
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=justanothertownie&view=all
+ Show Spoiler +- opener Weak opener. It doesnt state his opinion, so its unclear why he is querying about Koshi vs DP/Geript. I don't have a problem personally with him asking who wants him to comment, some say thats scummy. I see it as quite town/open confidence. Like, hey guys, im lost; point me in any direction..
Overall, I would give this very weak town points; blunt, and I dont think this makes him blend in.
- Post I give him 2 names to follow up on, and he queries it. This is interesting, because he didnt share his reasoning for asking me about Koshi but expects it when the roles are reversed. Null, but interesting.
- post Fair observation regarding sentinel, null though. I do like he considered pre-game mentality, but still null.
- Post OK, so we either have a suspicious town that is thinking about what scum can/can't do; but is introverted so doesn't drive the thread in a direction when suspicious... OR we have a blendy scum.
Im leaning towards suspicious town due to the bluntless of his comments; its just a to the point, no bullshit read. I can understand why someone would call it fluff; but in reality its a guy admitting i haev a read and its a 55% read. I would prefer not to verbalise this, but since you asked, here you go.
- Post stuff like this about objecting to kush. I can see how its hard to read JAT; he doesnt say at all why he objects. The thing is, if a scum wants to fake contribute; why contribute on somethin so meaningless - it just looks bad when ppl like me filter later. (this was stutters first push on kush, which was useless). Im gonna say slight town; reasoning: picks n chooses when to contribute on things that matter to him. Reluctance to share his reads, is prob to do with being suspicious of everyone (i.e. no trust with what ppl will do with it).
Conversely, he could be replying because its to stutters, so this is scum to scum talk.. but .. stutters has not flipped so ---> Bookmark
- Post See I love this post. Its confrontational, but not polarizing. I think this is a town way to respond to a null read.
Scum CAN make this type of post; but I really think they would try and attack Wave more (tit for tat) reaction. Perhaps thats just how I would it as scum.. so.. will give null to slight town inkling.
- post He says wave is null; so that ties in with the approach I gave one post up. Sweet, guy is town ! (but lets keep going)
- post a lot of ppl would take this with a grain of salt => non-alignment indicative. But i think its true. a new guy in a big game, where everyone knows each other, can be over whelming. His playstyle supports this. I have no reason to doubt he is unconfident due to lack of meta knowledge (same I think may apply to Umasi). Null tell, but it does fit the puzzle well.
- More banter/commentary. Seems to talk about players, he has played with before (Koshi, VA) etc. Again, ties in with the piece of the puzzle prior. I think basd ont he way he is playing the game; a scum JAT would not post at all unless spoken to. That he is even attempting to dialogue with the limited people he is familiar I think makes him town (considering the overwhelming nature of the game)
- Calls out CC here. Null tell though. Pretty easy to do as either (yes, I think CC is 100% scum)
- post I dont like this exchange from JAT. Koshi asked a very valid question; and JAT avoided giving the answer, by proposing the follow up question. Its potentially a manipulative response; but it can be geared towards giving him a better perspective of Koshi. Null, but I dont like this type of approach from town in general.
Where it makes sense to me, is if, JAT asked me about Koshi because he was suspicious of him. Then, this mentality fits a story for me as town.. Will have to see how he responds to Koshi further on.
- post I actually agree with this. Its hard, JAT needs a lot of massaging to get his perspective of things. But then, the opinion that comes out is actually very reasonable and is worth the foreplay. I think this slides me town, over a "playing hard to get" scum.
- post This type of brutal honest I love. LIke, scum can EASILY make posts like this. but what I like is, that JAT reads between the lines of stuff asked to him; and answers the HIDDEN question.
THis also makes me concerned, because obviously he isn't stupid and then, knows how to answer questions because he identifies what the person is looking for. Will take him back down to null out of respect. Going to have to see how this guy votes and pressures his hard reads. If scum, he might only be able to be caught by association with flipped scum (i.e. protecting etc)
- post Again being protactive only to players he played with before (rayn).. like.. its hard, i would have really liked this guys perspective on some of the other events in the game.. as it stands, i know nothing of where he stands, other than WoS is null. Kush calls him out, but I like the response here Sounds pretty honest. Legitimate interest is non-alignment indicative though
Still null on this guy, and halfway through Day1.
- post This is a towny response in context of the convo. He went from querying rayn suspicion of yam; to giving it credence to do a filter dump. There was no need to offer this. Very very weak town point.
- Post See I dont like this. He was suspicious, and decided not to query that. LIke, Im torn .. personality analysis suggests he wont question it; but I believe he has played with firmtofu.. so it makes sense that he would.. hmmph.. will give this a slight scum read.. FT was a topic of the thread, so I dont see why he wouldnt query his doubts.
- post JAT follows up on Yam; but this time opens up that he finds something suspicion. Satisfying what I wanted a townie JAT to do. His perspective differs to mine at the time (+ DP) but that doesnt make him scum. Luckily DP probes him; and his rational for a town yam here makes sense. Scum can obviously easily give reasons why yam is town, but JAT jots down quite a few acceptable ones. I would be hrad pressed to think scum would try this hard to give town points on someone they know is town.
i.e. he identifies the issue DP has, and writes it off as null.
then proceeded to give 2 valid reasons why yam could be town. its a town response for sure.
DP probes more, and JAT response is spot on here But its a null post; even considering the above.
Then DP probes again here DP is asking ALL the right questions, making him probable town (just from this exchange) its incredible... hes asking everything I need to read JAT (WELL DONE dude.. gonna miss you). JATs response is on-point for town too. I think the word Ver likes to use is "congruent".. JAT is very congruent.
All up, regarding this yam exchange, I think JAT is probable town.
- post This is weird in a vacuum. Not sure why he came out of the blocks, to declare he wont vote VE. --> Bookmarked for thread context examination, if JAT changes to scummish later on in the filter
- post His interactions with LoneMeow martyr are interesting. Its the first time, he reads as "off the cuff" instead of controlled and refined. Im a bit concerned by how level headed he was. Either this guy is a great analyser of info, and only makes decisions he is certain of; or he is scum and knew lonemeow was town.. BUT.. i think scum would have tried to abuse this situation more.. if anything, JAT talking to LoneMeow cockblocked scum coming in to throw shit on the situation. WIFOM, but im leaning towards town analyser.
- post confirms suspicions of koshi. Again congruency with early day1 play.
- post opinions on day1 wagons.
sounds like level headed town, hes not scum for being right
The only way I can see JAT being scum, is if FT/Chair/Lone are all town (two are obviously) and, JAT is so pro at scum; he chose FT because he could bullshit about him without feeling guilty, whereas he felt guility about his fellow noobies. I think this is highly unlikely though. The analysis is pretty valid; and JAT shows too much introversion to be this deceitful in the thread.
Strenghened by his pushing of FT to rayn here
- post I like this response, even though its null. In the scheme of things, hes just very congruent as mentioned. I think this is a guy that knows his strengths and weaknesses and time schedule; and his approach to still being able to help town, was by putting this on the table immediately and saying, direct me.
- post Reasonable list of reads.. its fairly subjective; but its still consistent with his approach to the game publicly. I am curious to eventually see a case from him, i wonder how detailed it will be. In the future, this might be the only way to catch him. He has a style which can be mimic'd easily as scum (int eh sense of low posts; and internalise reads until it suits you). so the key is how good his analysis is, as thats harder to bullshit as scum
- Has some back n forth about me to rayn/wave. Its null, as he was citing incorrect information.. This is PECULIAR for him as I expected him to be on top of everything, being such an analyser.
Im actually going to give him benefit of the doubt, because the vote count was a total clusterfuck (even Im not confident what the end votes were)
- [post I take issue with JAT here. Hes answering a technically non-alignment indicative question.. BUT.. Risen was a scum read prior. Is he answering this because he pays attention to Risen? Its just weird out of everything he picks/chooses to respond to, he answers a question about # of scum roles. --> Undecided how to treat this
- post Another peculiarity from him. LIke i expect this from 9/10 town players.. but the way he played previously, unless he is now coming out of his shell, this is out of character... but that was teh meta read OO gave prior.. so that aligns.
That he is focused on FT, could be an explanatino for leaving risen alone.. but. still.. im keeping an eye out on this
- post another peculiarity.. he retorts sentinel on semantics (when he had expressed no issue with sentinel.. even asking his opinino on FT); and ignores sentinel request to probe CC in the process... VERY ODD choice to delurk.
- post here he identfies several points which (have been discussed in the thread) but stays null. Very odd... I do like he is tryign to push Sentinel for a read on FT.. but; i dunno, this is a weird string of oddities. Because JAT is a player who picks/chooses when to post.. you have to apply more weighting behind motivation to why he decide to click "send".. Im really stuck on him now.
- post Its coming together now.. This guy has a massive town read on yamato, and is HIGHLY SUSPICIOUS of anyone that is throwing shit (or him perceiving them to throw shit) at yamato.... This actually ties in with all the oddities above, EXCEPT why he gave sentinel a null read.. Perhaps he truly doesnt treat odd actions as scum, as hes analytical enought o see beyond actions and look for motivation to which he is still clear.
I think thats a fair assessment. Town for sure.
- Some back/forth discussing his yam town read. All congruent again.
- post calls out iamp as scummy.
Will have to check if he follows this up --> Bookmark
Hes still pushing FT, which is a good sign. Would be nice, if he updated his case points to specify the issues with FT..
- post more congreuncy. He had an early scum read on kush, and now follows up when someone calls him town. This makes me curious.. why did JAT never comment on the informaiotn stutters provided on Kush? GGRRR.. im back to a real problem... He has never identified what his problem with kush is .. jsut said.. ie xpect him to contribute better day2.
So he shutdown stutters before on kush, and now is for a kush lynhch of sorts...
- post here i presure him to respond about my mattchew case.. weird response.. feels on the backfoot. I dont like how he adds "people voting him are mostly town in my book".. Like i get that indicates a good thing (analysing ther esponse).. but its also can come across as appeal to ego.
He then gets pressured by marv/myself
What I dontl ike about the whole thign is.. he said the case is good, but good != mafia.. fine.. point out the holes, so we can avoid a mislynch ! I really dont like this play.
Its so easy to sell as scum, who doesnt want to be on the town wagon.
Then caves in and votes.
What I like, is that he comments on FT before voting with the wagon under pressure. If anything, thats townie.. even though its so simple to do. Its about congruency.
I just wish he pointed out the holes.. would make it so much easier to read him. im scared of this guy as scum, but im certain he is town.
- some banter about posting more etc.
- Replies to the marv case, but doesnt quote. post ggrrr. gonna have to look this up later. ---> Bookmark
- Rayn copies marv and makes a case which jat repsonds to but quotes post
Rayn case is terrible. Ironically he touches upon things i have issues with, but for all the wrong reasons (i.e. entering the thread to talk to Risen)... Rayn case REALLLY stinks.
JAT response is fine, but thats because Rayn asked him nothing alignment indicative/challenging. This could actually be scum/scum interaction, or town/scum interaction.. I REALLY expect more from rayn.
post in theory this response is fine.. But in my experience its hard to change up play, even when really down (everyone still has a baseline).. Null, but i dont like it
- Responds to marv case with quote, yayMarvs case actually looks the goods. Theres a real contrast; but JAT response is reasonable, and gives a solid explanation to why he could have been motivated to change his game. All WIFOM of course; raises a good point in not viewing his newbie games too.. hmmm IMPORTANTLY, identifies why kush became a scum read that I bookedmarked prior as it had no info in his filter(kush attacked him).. This type of butthurt is TRADEMARK townie response. Guy is confirmed town. Fullstop.
- post I like his OMGUS congruency on rayn. I say OMGUS because anyone that attacks him is scum. Its a meta case on rayn, which i dont fully get as i barely played with him.. im not lokoing favourably on him based on that previous case he made on JAT though, it was SO bad it had to be disgenuine.
- Has a bunch of back/forth with rayn. Im kinda skimming all this, because JAT is consistent, and IM already certain he is town. Technically it could give me a read on ryan, but i will deal with that when I stream him.
The important thing is, that he is consistent, and still coming out with reasonable points that dont smell like bullshit
- post this is interesting, and shows how level headed he is... He has issues with Rayn that haven't been resolved, but is still unwilling to vote him outright. Gives consistency with not wanting to vote Mattchew.
Some can argue he is scum not wanting accountability, and i get it.. but a lot of stuff is making sense if you take the time to piece it together (e.g. the kush OMGUS).. I will admit, it takes a lot of effort ot piece together his filter, so I can understand ppl thinking he is scum off a glance. Guess that technically makes him lynchbait.
- post see I agree with this, and its part of why i found it hard to vote for either of them. The pro/cons were reasonably balanced for either at that point in time. Is this scum hedging his bets on a town lycnh? I dobut it. But its worth noting I suppose
- post Wow.. this post pretty much confirms Cephrio as scum.. not because he voted JAT.. but because he voted JAT as per what I just explained above (went for easy lynchbait..) man.. this is really coming together.. Yep, Cephiro is CONFIRMED scum just from that post. I didnt even read the case properly, just saw the "null / fluff" etc.. and thats exactly what you get from JAT by just glancing, which is precisely how scum build a case.. dont need to read it any further.
As an aside, JAT responses to this in a meaningful way (i.e. not brushing it off as scum bussing each other)
Whereas, this Cephiro comment here to JAT does read as scum bussing (the whole.. tell me about VE distraction ploy). Will leave that as null as spews near a flip are WIFOM.
- Rayns thing about the spreadsheet is just plain dumb.. my god.. wtf rayn. Im not gonna call it scum, heck, I would love to have seen his reads too.. but. yeah.. just odd /dumb.
- readsWOW.. with how i feel about the game now.. many of his null reads are scummy.. I like.. i dont liket hat the names haven't been changed, which makes it uncertain how old the reads are.. hhmmph. i dont take value in this stuff.. just interesting
Actually, i would lvoe to know why stutters was green.
Will query JAT in the thread
- During the cliaming business, JAT gets rush posted for the 2nd time thsi game (first was lone meow martyr)
post feels genuine, the whole streak of comments.
post considering how butthurt he gets if ppl attack him; i can see him getting angry at me, for misleading him like this. Personality wise, this is consistent with my expectation.
- post here he has some tone to stutters. I would love to know his current stance
JAT is probable town. I would say clear, but his filter actually requires some investigation to understand. In the end, his actions are extremely congruent; and pieces that didnt't make sense on Day1, are explained UNINTENTIONALLY day2.. which is incredible.. consistency like this can only be from town.
Further, we already know Cephiro is flipping scum; but essentially, the way Cephiro approached his case on JAT, is precisely why Cephiro is scum. This is outlined in the stream of consciousness (towards the end)
Zaragon
Stutters695
Mr.Cheesecake
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