On October 02 2013 10:11 iamperfection wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2013 12:26 Mocsta wrote:Stream of consciousness: IAmPerfectionhttp://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=423071&user=iamperfection&view=all+ Show Spoiler +- opener Pretty weak overall. Reads like a token post; but null overall.
- Some banter around yamato being confirmed town. Null.
- Probing VE This is an odd interaction. iamp "contributing" via yam shot is dandy n all (null); but this this last of questioning to VE is unusual. To me, it serves no purpose, as in, its essentially rhetorical statement.
Ultimately, what is VE meant to say to that?
Usually that type of rhetoric is used when you have a scum read on someone, and are just trying to ad-hom them for funsies. Slight scum lean (for such early usuage, its not even clear if VE is a scum read)
- FT 'case' on Umasi iamp chimes a +1 to FT scum read on Umasi. Now, havinga scum read on a flipped town, doesnt make iamp scum. Lets look at the FT case, and whether it even made sense. I think the points are reasonable enough for questions/pressure + its also something I followed up independantly with Umasi.
What I don't like is iamp +1 and the need to overcompensate by throwing in the "lynching for information". Thats nitpicking, isn't a scum tell (especially BECAUSE rayns quote is not supplied in FT case...) so it really does read as overcompensation. Will give this a scum lean.
- Umasi followup Not sure how to handle this one. Its null to follow up with others on a case/point you believe in. However, what I don't like is that instead of say, what do you think of the issues brought forth on Umasi.. iamp ensures that tofu name is thrown in for "credit". Is this a town guy, that likes to ensure the originator gets full town points; or a scummer trying to backseat and let others take the fall? Will give null, but overall i dont like it.
(As an aside, if FT led with a vote so the Umasi stuff was a case... it woul be OK for iamp to give credit to iamp.. but considering that it was merely a "point" (which iamp also referenced) is what i dont like about it)
- Response 1 and response 2. This might be nitpicking, but the chain looks bad. The first response is completely acceptable. The second response comes in within 1 minute of the first post, and looks like overcompensation.
Basically, he made his first post; realised it was a generic response and tried to buff it up with a trademark iamp-style 1-liner.
The issue being that the trademark 1-liner should have been his natural first response.
I'm giving this a slight scum lean
- Cephiro This post is interesting.
Is it light distancing from scum; or is it being unsure of whether Cephrio is still in the game?
I am leaning towards #1; because, Cephiro filter wasn't asking for replacements and he was still posting enough to meet the posting requirements.
Further:
(1) Marv made a case on Cephiro to be lynched about 20 pages earlier. Not only that, but iamp first post came around the same time, marv made the Cephiro post.
(2) iamp saw fit to comment on Yamato being confirmed town, so is cleraly aware of how the thread has progressed.
The other issue is that he raises this criteria of inactivity, but doesnt comment on his position on Cephiro and why it matters he is raising the inactivity !! thats pretty scummy as well.
- Mattchew Null. The position on mattchew echos thread sentiment, so is meaningless. One thing of note is that iamp feels the need to again overcompensate response by adding "I specifically like his points about his approach to stutters".
Again, my issue is with what is NOT BEING SAID.
If iamp is town:
As Mattchew is a scumread; this implies that Stutters is town. --> Bookmark for iamp list post later on.
If iamp is scum:
Stutters is almost certainly on his team, as this reads as a subtle bus/distance attempt to hedge bets.
- The List Post VE already did a good analysis prior.
Tying in with the above. He gives a bad town read, but its with low confidence. I don't think that is congruent with the above to state that mattchew is scum based on his approach to stutters.
This is pretty scummy.
Not that being wrong makes you scum; but its interesting his scum reads
Sentinel, Geript, zaragon, mattchew, umasi (4 have flipped town). The reasoning is terrible.
The other thing that looks really bad is that he lists Umasi as scum, by riding on the coattails of FTs Umasi POINT.
This is an issue, because just like with VE prior; iamp isnt pressuring anyone, its just rhetorical +1 additions.
- post See like I dont get this in general. Hes made this massive live post with reads; including 5 scum players.. and then questions risen about Firm who he has as a town read. This just doesn't flow for me.
I will give him benefit of the doubt (null) because technically he did ask to be queried.
However, personally, I would be expecting a town iamp to be pushing his reads from teh list post instead.
- post Again, dropping mattchew echos thread sentiment, so its hard to give a lean one-way. Interesting that he now declares Cephero as a 55-60 lynch.
Its interesting because in his list post; he seemed unconfident on the read, but called him scum anyways.
I dont have a problem with this post in question, as a town could write that. My issue is that in his list post he still caved to thread sentiment and called Cephiro scum.
With the context of a Cephiro lynch, this reads as hedging your bets.
- Risen Suggests Risen as a counter-wagon to (vanilla scum Cephiro) -->> Bookmark; if iamp flips scum, this may clear Risen.
His list post is very ambiguous as well in regards to Risen.
- post Null post. I can see both points of view kicking in.
- post Null again, but I hate this type of approach. Doesn't actually state why his "tell" is scum motive indicative.
- post Marv with an excellent piece of deduction that iamp risen appoints equally apply to cephiro. iamp reasoning is quite weak; but his risen points were hinged on GoT meta, so there could be some truth in it. I won't hold this against him. Null.
- Has a bunch of posts pushing Risen as a candidate. Thats consistent as either alignment; will give a slight town lean as he still does this when the thread is dead.
- post See, a post like this I dont like. Even if Cephiro flipped town.. because, its pretty obvious Cephrio was not getting modkilled. I dont mind him stating this *AND* pushing another lynch whole-heartedly, but he does not even re-state his desire to lynch Risen with this post, let alone his prior scum reads.
Its pretty safe to conclude that this is a post designed to give Cephiro breathing space.
- post fair question from marv; fair response (if slightly overdone) from iamp. will give it null.
- post Odd, Risen is right. I dont recall seeing a question for Risen in iamp filter, and I just read it? The question he then proposes to Risen is not even related to why he had a scum read on him? Quite bizairre. If i took a stab, I would say, iamp made this up on the spot; as it ties into what Risen asked him about FT.
- Some banter 2 hrs before lynch.
- post Says here he can do Cephiro or LoneMeow.
TOugh one, his list post is basically a 50/50 read on LoneMeow; seems to throw more bad town reasoning than scum. Overall it appears his read is "null"; whereas with Cephiro he didnt point to a piece of reasoning to support him as town, and had a more leaning read on him (55-60).
I would have imagined, he would be voting Cephiro > LoneMeow based on the context he has released to the thread. But, to say its 50/50 is also fair. Will give this null.
I guess I would expect a town iamp to be more proactive in this situation; and if it was detemrined the lynch was between these two, he would be trying to focus his attentino of discerning between the two from this point onwards.
- Some banter to Koshi about voting Rayn. Then an activity question to Cephiro Null I suppose
post Regardless of Cephiro lynch, this is a fair post to make. I didnt fully understand Deconduo reasoning for voting Cephiro based on that information either. Marking it null, even though its a defense of a scum guy. If anything, this is prob a townier thing to do; because, if Cephrio flipped scum, this looks too blatant a "buddy defense"
- post Fair posts calling me out for trolling. Null, but at least showing signs of taking the lynch seriously.
In context though, Cephiro was close to being lynched, so either alignment had to take it seriously.
- post Not sure how much I like this. I dont think Deconduo is a good flip just based on that action at that point in time. Considering he had reasons to call Lone or Ceph scum; its disconcerting that he tried to jump ships as soon as possible.
post 1
post 2
These two posts are not congruent. Again, recognises that the lynch is too deep to sway from Lone/Ceph; but then requests #'s to confirm if a genuine swing is possible.
- Again pushes Deconduo hmmm, this is quite a swing in read; and smells of desperation.
Yes, I considered a Geript or zaragon lynched; but i actually had reads on them prior that was publicised in the thread. Whether right or wrong; I have consistency.
Iamperfection on the otherhand, gave Deconduo a slight null to town read over nothing; and now disregards two major wagons to insta-vote Deconduo for an odd vote on Cephiro. I'm struggling to see this from a town perspective.
- post I cant fault iamperfection here. I felt the same, and it massively influenced my decision to treat Lone as scum > Cephiro. Still, if town, I dont see how that bias allows him to insta-vote deconduo.
This is evident when in the heat of the moment, i still query the action of chasing deconduo as pointless.
post
- post Banters with VE. Like, I can this during 3/4 of the day cycle. But the last cycle, when the wagons are tight. It shows a distinct lack of care. Hes not actually trying to sway VE towards a wagon; yet is posting?
So what is the contribution?
Pretty scummy I think
- post Another rhetoical queston from Iamperfection. What does this actually achieve? Dunno what to make of this.
- post This seems townie; and aligned with my thoughts at the time to kill Lone. Its prob null though, as scum are looking for reasons to get votes off Cephiro.
- post Calls out the lonemeow claim as lying. Odd, complete opposite reaction to my initial thought. Bad claims are typically town. Clearly I changed my mind later due to the yamato references.
I really dont know what to make of this; he appears to have paid no attention to the filter of lonemeow, yet instantly was aware that yam wasn't a part of it. I know ctrl+f is easy to do, but it was a pretty quick response.
- post Not sure how to interpret the Mr.CC read. (Regardless of the fake claim now) I take issue with this, because my first response was to trust the doc claim. I'm also surprised I wasn't called out for being opposite in mindset BUT CALLS OUT SENTINTEL FOR BEING OPPOSITE IN MINDSET !
Very scummy
- Some banter with Marv afterwards, but its within reason as either alignment.
- post This doesn't align with what i saw. He said he read the filter than disbelieved teh claim. Whereas, its clera that he caleld LoneMeow a liar FIRST, and then substantiated that by checking the filter.
Further, if he was aware of LoneMeow filter prior claim; why did he not take a firmer position on LoneMeow?
This smells funny.
- post This is a GREAT theory for rejecting the doc claim and I would take that as a town tell IF this post was made int he heat of the moment. No where in iamp filter is he trying to deny a counter claim.
Further, again, if he never believed him.. why was he trying to swing the vote away from Lone/Ceph?
Pretty scummy.
- post This I dont understand. What has presence got to do with being a blue? Sounds like bullshit
- post This is patentnly false. I made several statements saying that LoneMeow was going to survive unless a 3+ swing occured.
- post This is an odd reaction to the pressure from yamato/marv. I mean, I do it when ppl are implying im scum; but here, after being pressured about his ations, he tries to cut it off immediately by throwing this out there. i dont like it. Not a massive tell, but also something I think is highly unlikley to come from town.
- post This cover story doesnt make sense. He flat out shat over the claim immediately, AND THEN looked for evidence to suggest otherwise. Like i keep saying, if he was already aware of LoneMeow filter to recognise yam isnt there, he should have had a stronger position on the lynch. So the position that iamp takes, just doesnt line up well.
- post a series of odd interactions with deconduo. What happened to all his other reads? iamp never pressures them at all, and risen wasn't even on his original list? The convo with Deconduo is odd, because hes pointing out actions, but not assigning them a scum motive? It looks like slinging shit, and expecting others to carry the torch.
- list post 2
I dont get the about turn on Umasi.
The scum read on Deconduo is weak
I already explained why sentinel is poor form. (he should consider me scum for the same thing).
Also, all teh stuff he is pointing out are actions; and doesnt explain why its scummy.
- post I also dont like stuff like this. Iamp showed no support to vote Cephiro before; and is now donig a marv +1.
- post I dont get this reaction. OK, he had a town read on FT, so plays nice with him and says read OP.
Yet, before he had a minor town read on otehrs like deconduo/risen, and then instantly flips his read when they do stupid shit which I think is equivalent to what FT did. I dunno, i just dont think this sincere. More of a feel tell though, so will treat it as null.
- post Null post; though I can see some ppl thinking it is town to ask for limelight.
- post Now this is odd. For the first time, (regarding iamp town read on Mr.CC); iamp is takling about scum motivation. Before hes purely attributing actions to calling out people as scum.
- defends CC against my case
So iamp approaches the CC case because i called him out on giving cc a town read. Fair neough.
I shoudla read my case in more detail to assess this defense, but now i re-read it, the points iamp touch on, dont even relate to my case.
I said
(1)"You refused to vote cephirolast cycle, and even challenged others who wanted to vote cephiro"
(2) mr.cc reaction to lonemeow doctor claim, does not align with how he handles the mocsta doctor fake-claim
(3) day 3 votes due to sheeping.
The only thing iamp addressed was "even challenged otehrs who wanted to vote cephiro"
Considering this is one of iamp more substantiated posts; this looks really bad for both iamp and CC
- iamp flipping his lid on vanilla scum flip is null. Scum were already aware town had incorrect info.
- post This is concerning.
Gives me a town read; but hasnt discussed me at all since-post fake claim other than dispute my CC case.
- post Now he calls me stupid, the implication is stupid TOWN... like i said before, i doubted the doc claim just like sentinel did.
Why is sentinel scum, and I am stupid town?
Of course scum want me around for end-game. I have zero cred AND they expect me to keep making the wrong decisions. I am the ideal townie this game to end game with.
Its very odd, that instead of pursuing his scum reads, hes defending 50/50s like me. Very odd.
- town reads Gives two free town reads on Geript + JAT. Weirdly these feel a lot more detailed and honest, then his scum reads, which feel like dot points put together unnaturally. Its a feel tell again. but scum
- post recants his VE read (which conveneinetly aligns with thread sentiment) with no real reasoning.
Again, ties in with stutters, who he had town read on before.. so aligns with thread sentiment
For some reason is adamant against FirmTofu. Not sure how to treat that.
(1) iamperfection doesnt scum hunt or follow through with his reads He creates a bunch of scum reads in a list post; but never pursues them to further divine/strengthen their alignment. When he pressures random people in the thread, many of his posts are rhetorical and again, serve no purpose to divine the targets alignment. Again, in his list posts, he has individuals like risen/deconduo as null->leaning soft town. Yet, as soon as those individuals do something suspicious; he is all over them like white on rice. As above: rhetorical questions, or calling out "stupid actions" but not explaining the scum motivation behind it. There is no scum hunting in his filter. Just calling out bad play. (2) The LoneMeow Lynch (a) Kept on trying to suggest that Cephiro would be modkilled for inactivity which is clearly false; and whilst doing this, avoids responding to marv case (whilst being present at/near the time it was unleashed) (b) Gives some sort of reasoning for calling LoneMeow bad town in his list post; zero reason for suggesting Cephiro is town. (In fact suggests Cephiro is leaning scum) (c) Its odd how much he jumps all over Deconduo was voting Cephiro (giving the leaning scum read). If he thinks it is suspicious to vote Cephiro for bad reasoning, then he must think Cephiro is town. [Because if he thougth Cephiro was scum, and Deconduo was bussing; his vote would already be on Cephiro!] Fine... so if he thinks Cephiro is town... why isnt he putting more effort into pondering LoneMeow? Which leads into the LM claim (d) Instantly assumes it is fake; which suggests he did NOT have a town read on LoneMeow. Again, why no vote his way until the claim? Further, his story keeps changing tune as he explains it to yamato, post-lynch. He says he read the filter first, then thought LoneMeow was lying. Clearly, iamp called him a liar first, then 2min later supported it with filter context (i.e. didnt directly indicate he thought yamato was town) As mentioned before, if iamp was aware of lonemeow filter prior, to be suspicious of lonemeow... why wasnt he trying to lead a lynch that way? His actions are not lining up. (e) THen you have the outcome, where he calls Sentinel scum for believing the claim -- which is funny, because I believed the claim originally as well and was not considered scum. More inconsistencies. (3) His town read on Mr.CC (a) When he broke down my Mr.CC case, I should have read my case to refresh my memory, because on re-read. iamp didnt actually break down the case at all. I said (1)"You refused to vote cephiro last cycle, and even challenged others who wanted to vote cephiro" (2) mr.cc reaction to lonemeow doctor claim, does not align with how he handles the mocsta doctor fake-claim (3) day 3 votes due to sheeping. The only thing iamp addressed was "even challenged otehrs who wanted to vote cephiro" This looks very bad for Mr.CC; because this "defense" was one of iamperfections more substantiated posts, suggesting a lot of effort was put in. This also ties in with Mr.CC cop claim today. (4) Thread sentiment scum reads After giving Stutters a town read, in both his list posts. Now he is conforming with thread sentiment and willing to lynch Stutters (without any justification). Has also flipflopped his VE several times which conveniently tie in with thread sentiment. Again, no justification.
ZaragonJustAnotherTownieStutters695Mr.Cheesecake your i dont push my reads is me just not having great feel for this game replacing in is hard. day 1 is extremely important and you cant get a real feel without being there. At least that's how i feel. the ones i have felt extremly confident ie my town reads i have pushed. your other points are stupid and rely on un flipped players. They also take stuff out of context and rely on the results to prove points rather than looking at my actions as they happpened ie suggesting cephiro might not come back. and ignores the fact that as scum i bus like a mother fucker
Does anyone really want to tell me this is a convincing defense of Mocstas case?
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EPT
