EPTIf he believed him to be scum enough to vote him over solstice (while stating he's still suspicious of solstice) why does he feel the need to add more reasons to his vote?
GoT Mafia: Lords and Liars - Page 4
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Clarity_nl
Netherlands6826 Posts
If he believed him to be scum enough to vote him over solstice (while stating he's still suspicious of solstice) why does he feel the need to add more reasons to his vote? | ||
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Clarity_nl
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In chronological order: 1. He takes advantage of the mess rayn and acro have created by voting for acro 2. He then goes back and explains why his reasoning in his votepost makes sense (this is fine) 3. He now shows that he went back and looked at his interactions with acro Why did he not look back at the interactions before voting him? Surely you look back at it BEFORE you vote someone? I believe he is scum who tried to take advantage of the situation, and acted too quickly, started doubting that the reasons he posted in thread looked genuine, so he went back and slapped on everything that he could twist to look scummy. He had not mentioned acro at all before this point. If anyone has received pms from oberyn in which he expresses concern of acro being scum prior to the rayn/acro outburst then I might be willing to change my mind on this. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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On August 09 2013 18:02 Xatalos wrote: Hmmm. I don't really see that as a scum-only motivation. Scum would certainly have reason to pile more suspicion on their target after selecting him, but similarly town can be consumed by confirmation bias and focus on convincing others of their read. Look at Dandel Ion's tunnel on Koshi, for example. Do you believe his original reasoning for voting acro was enough to vote him, especially over solstice at that point? | ||
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On August 09 2013 18:15 Grackaroni wrote: ok 15 minutes past and nobody read my post. cya tomorrow guys I read it. I don't really agree simply because I see townies do this all the time. They enter like halfway through day 1 but act like it's still the first hours of the game. Because to them it feels that way. Could you comment on my points on Oberyn? didn't think I'd need to ask, since you seemed willing to look into people if we asked you and I just made a giant post about him.. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. Hmmm, okay. Could you specify what he said to you, does it match the reasons he laid out after his vote post? | ||
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Clarity_nl
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On August 09 2013 18:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: First we started talking about Onegu (his suggestion of using the house HP check), i told Oberyn this: "Onegu´s suggestion is beyond stupid or scummy. Why should we give mafia information about how many HP people have, od D1, when there is not much to go with? Have you tried to ask his reasoning for that?" Oberyn agreed with me. Then he said he finds it weird Acrofales agrees with Onegu and wants to use the HP check on their own house because it´s important for the lords to know about the HP so they can direct KP accordingly. Then he said Acro is his biggest suspect at the moment and asked me to not share this with anyone yet so he could keep questioning him. Me: "Hmm.. Ask him (Acro) about his motives to use the HP check. I find that extremely anti-town thing to do at this point, at least if a scum!Lord uses it (as they get the information). Assuming mafia does not know how much HP people have they are in the same boat with us townies right now. there is no reason to push that information to be known right now as mafia is the holder of the KP besides us lords. It does not help town at all. Keep up messaging with Acro, and keep me informed. " Oberyn then told me that Acro had misunderstood the check as a single target check (i assume this means that you can pick one person - when in fact it´s a full house) and in that case Acro´s suggestion is not that scummy. First Acro had told Oberyn he thinks it should be used on D1 to find out about hp, which Oberyn thought was scummy, but then he had said it should be used to confirm lord kp, which was in Oberyn´s mind less scummy (i didin´t really get what that meant). Me: "Okay, if that´s true what you said about Acro it´s not a scumtell. I mean if he thought the check was not single. As k him how he can possibly think so (single target) when the OP clearly says otherwise. Pressure him on that. If he is mafia he might fuck up." And that´s the last time we have talked about Acrofales. So you're saying that in speaking to you he never mentioned any of these reasons for acro possibly being scum: On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote: More on Acrofales: I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction. Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it. Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them. In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today. Also notice how he does not mention that acro told him he thought the hp check was on a single person, and how, if that were true, it wouldn't be so anti-town. He just mentions how [the initial way he perceived acro's idea was very anti town] On August 09 2013 18:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: Another thing. In Oberyn´s defense he was suspicious of Acro before our thing happened. He expressed his suspicion to me in PM´s and told me to not tell anyone about that (as there was this house HP stuff going on, he wanted more information from Acro regarding that). So i can see why he voted / laid out his case on Acro when he did and it makes sense to me. So... why are you defending him? The way you explained your pms it discredits one of his points on acro, and all the other points it turns out he never mentioned to you when he was discussing his suspicion. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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On August 09 2013 18:50 Grackaroni wrote: Koshi read town to me in his arguments with DI. (DI too) I'm willing to forgive s0Lstice's choosing chromatically over Di because he was obviously caught up in an EPEEN measuring contest with DI and I think judging from both Koshi and s0Lstice's reactions to DI, DI was being obnoxious and it made him act irrationally. (not choose DI out of spite, justify it to himself with the possible waste of house power for nothing) Acro I'm really not sure about, I'll look over him tomorrow because I actually am tired. As for Jrkirby. @clarity, how many of those inexperienced players made posts like that in the middle of the game and then left without really talking about any player with anyone? A lot? Especially if they just caught up to the thread. I've done this myself. You read 25-30 pages and then you have to process all the information. So what do you talk about? The stuff you thought about before reading those pages. I'm not saying he can't be scum but your reasons don't convince me. | ||
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On August 09 2013 20:19 Xatalos wrote: Release the Gracken! Rayn, are you sure? That's not how I understood the rules at all. DrParnassus, what's your take on this matter? "Each house has an X kp shot every night cycle (combined, so shot every 72 hours) which is used by whoever is currently lord. They must pm the mods to send in the house kp and the action will go through as soon as a mod sees the pm." Since Oberyn already suspected Acro before coming to the conclusion of voting for him, I don't think it's really unnatural to tunnel for a bit and search for more reasons for Acro to be scum. I've done that as town and as scum, so I don't think it's too alignment indicative. I think it's more suspicious to avoid currently relevant topics, as DI mentioned. iamperfection, are you still vouching for a lurker lynch? Wouldn't KP fit that task much better? You don't think is weird that even though acro told oberyn that he thought the hp check was on a person rather than a house, oberyn failed to mention this in his post? Oberyn told rayn that if acro was speaking the truth about that, it's not anti-town. He also failed to mention any of the reasons he posted in thread to rayn, even though he was supposedly discussing his read with rayn, enough so that he didn't want rayn to tell anyone else his thoughts. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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On August 09 2013 20:54 Xatalos wrote: Clarity, do you have other scumreads than Oberyn by the way? I think solstice is a good lynch today unless something strange happens. His scumread on johnny makes no sense to me and his lord vote is obviously silly. Not voting DL despite having a townread on him because if he's scum he'll betray himself anyway...? Onegu feels scummy, the way he rapidly comes to people's defense, other than that he hasn't done much. Other than that, no not really. Risen is weird but scum doesn't just post 6 terrible scumreads in the span of an hour and then goes "BYE GUYS, DA BEECH" I liked him pointing out FT's opening post being scummy as hell. | ||
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Clarity_nl
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Maybe he's more active in pms? That said, I've played with iamp before (2012 though) and this seems to be his style. I don't disagree that lurkers need to be pressured, although as has been pointed out we have house KP for that, and hopefully iamp will agree with this. All the lords definitely need to have some form of conclusion about what abilities are used, on who and what time. Whether they share their conclusion in thread or not is up to them, but there should be an explanation of what was done the following day for sure (unless I'm not foreseeing some sort of plan that needs to keep most people in the dark) | ||
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Clarity_nl
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That said his first post WAS scummy as hell. It became less scummy when he explained what he meant. I don't think FT is scum at the moment, but Risen was correct to call him out on it. Did Onegu soft defend people in NWM the way he's done at least twice this game? | ||
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Clarity_nl
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I didn't mention the hp check because it wasn't part of my case? I'm not sure what you're referring too based on that last statement. You did mention the hp check. On August 09 2013 09:02 Oberyn wrote: More on Acrofales: I first contact him via pm's because I found his conclusion that DI and koshi are both town quite puzzling. When I asked about it futher, he explained that he doesn't think DI truly thinks that sol and koshi are town, he is simply pressuring them. Based on DI's emotional tunnel, I certainly do not draw the same conclusion. He also inadequately explains why koshi is town. He states that DI is overreacting on his views about koshi., but how is this indicative of koshi's alignment? He states that he isn't interested in considering a koshi lynch, but doesn't provide a solid reason. Furthermore, if you earlier thought that DI was faking his read on koshi to pressure him, how is he suddenly overreacting on his read? That's a contradiction. Initially, he thought that it was a good idea to use the health check simply to figure out the hp system. This is incredibly anti-town. When I attack him for his plan, he quickly drops it. Acro's house is a slew of inactives, but he has shown little interest in dealing with them. In the thread, Acro has said a lot of nothing. He is using the role playing nonsense to cover up the fact that he isn't sharing many strong reads. I see little reason why he shouldn't be considered for a lynch today. My issue isn't that you gave multiple reasons for a scumread and a vote, my issue with it is that it's all backwards. You vote acro for ONE reason, and then you suddenly have 6 more reasons to call him scum. One of which is a strong misrepresentation. None of the others reasons were discussed by you anywhere before. Why do you tell rayn you have a scumread on acro but don't give him reasons AND tell him to not tell anyone else. You mention you said it to multiple players, who else? Did you give them reasons or is it the same as with rayn? | ||
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On August 09 2013 22:22 Oberyn wrote: As opposed to a vote meant to not pressure him? Yes I wanted a reaction. It hasn't changed and I just asked him a few things less than an hour ago, but he's playing hard to get. I don't think sol and dandel are both scum, which is the part time trying to figure out. Suggestions? At this point I'd rather focus more on other players than myself, unless there was something about Acro that you don't follow. As opposed to a vote to lynch him because he's scum. I understand the two are not mutually exclusive but if it's so obvious that every vote is a pressure vote then why did you tell onegu it was a pressure vote? | ||
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On August 09 2013 22:37 kushm4sta wrote: yeah sorry about my terrible activity this just started at an unexpectedly bad time. i will allow my lynch if you want but ONLY based on policy because I do this shit as town for like the past 5 games straight ? Well you're here now. Any thoughts... about you know, anything? | ||
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Vivax however... he told me early on he wouldn't be that active earlygame (it's why he didn't run) Why not keep him around another day and see if he picks it up? As you say he's a pretty good player to have around if he's town Gumshoe and Sharrant.... Sharrant just hasn't been around, has he pmed much? Gumshoe however was super active in pregame and suddenly doesn't post nearly all of day1? | ||
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On August 09 2013 22:41 kushm4sta wrote: hi clarity i appreciate your engagement with me. the answer to your question is a resounding no. Could you produce some before the day is over please? You're not getting lynched but you might get killed by the lords. | ||
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