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On August 20 2013 18:23 Xatalos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 20 2013 18:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Yes i understand, but you were the one that draw the assumption that i was "only bluehunting", which i wasn't. :D
And my argument on Onegu was not WIFOMy, maybe it looked like that to you because you had a townread on him. It was, simple logic, let's compare:
1) "Xata&Clarity got roleblocked N1 -> Vivax flipped mafia RB -> unless mafia rb'd one of their own on N1 at least one of them has to be town" Q: Did mafia roleblock one of their own?
2) "Onegu thinks there is a town rb -> Onegu thinks town rb'd Xata N1 -> Onegu thinks SnB is the only one alive who was suspicious of Xata D1 end" Q: What is Onegu's logic for having SnB as a suspect? Why does he think SnB is not likely to be the town rb, and why does he not investigate more on that matter? What if SnB is mafia rb? Why does Onegu not give a crap about that? Hmm. It's a reasonable bonus argument, I guess, but it was pretty much your WHOLE argument. And not conclusive at all. For example, saying that snb was the only one openly suspecting at that point doesn't mean that he was the only town RB who could have RB'd. It may look likely, but it's just WIFOM / assuming in the end. That you'd expect Onegu to think exactly the way you think he would, and not considering any other factors (besides this speculative argument), is pretty weak IMO. It felt more like scum trying to throw dirt than town genuinely thinking he was scum for it. Granted, my opinion was surely affected by my already existing reads on you two. (As a sidenote: you were very persistent in arguing with me earlier on! But then you just basically started avoiding me and lurking more. That's when I started thinking you were more and more likely scum.)
Actually, on the last part;
I really would have not done anything as town on D2 (read what Ace said earlier).
I really would not have done anything as town on D3 either (because it was clear i wanted Vivax lynched). I was following the arguments and wanted people to tell their thoughts and i WOULD have contributed later in case Vivax had not claimed scum (as scum aswell).
EDIT: I mean posted, not done. I actually did read the thread many times on D2 and D3.
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On August 20 2013 18:26 Risen wrote:
It really is a shame the game ended last night since Rayn effectively claimed scum in PMs to me last night rofl. Not that I would have done anything about it if Shar was still alive.
It was pretty clear you thought i was scum so there was no harm in it. :D
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The downside is that nobody ever discussed it in thread later on. :D
We affected the shots so much with our presence it was impossible to track onto anyone specificaly. Everyone looked as good/bad because of the shots. For example, on D1 end we basically decided with iamp who to shoot, he gave all town targets so i was okay with it. Nobody else seemed to give a shit about the house KP.
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On August 20 2013 18:36 Clarity_nl wrote:from scum qt, rayn: Show nested quote +That's what you get for bussing me for no reason.. seriously, there has been no reason to buss me at any point of the game. My argument about Onegu/Clarity was logically perfectly fine whether or not it was wrong or right. All i needed was one smart dude to say "you can both be right, stop it". Apparently town has no smart people left. No, it didn't make sense. I've had this problem before as scum where I start to believe my own bullshit, but it was still bullshit.
We could go with this into eternity but i have no reason to lie here. I really did not call you out for what you wrote. It might seem like i did, but i really didn't. I also never said it was the only thing that makes Onegu mafia, i had put up several other reasons aswell. Whether or not they were good it was not my only reason to call him mafia.
Once i realized (as people said in thread) that most people here do not bluehunt as town i dropped the argument, as i would have dropped it as town aswell, as it becomes a null-tell.
As i said, i promise to be better at explaining myself to you next game. ^^
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Neither was i. That really bought my motivation to 0. :E
EDIT: I was also really pissed off when people "\o/"'d when Ace replaced in. If i was town, when Ace flipped town i would consider those people confirmed town, as with SnB accidently posting his reads in thread instead of PMing whever he was supposed to.
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Btw, you guys should really know (for future reference) that i have really weird ways of scumhunting. I come from a place where pretty much all the games are off thread comm games and it really affects my play. For example, how i got a town read on getmoript (geript/WoS hydra) in Bluelightz game: It was all because i asked geript about what he thought about WoS posts, and after that asked him if he thought WoS was scum (lololol). His answer was so sincere and honest he basically could not be mafia.
I think that's the reason i don't work well here. People have a problem understanding my motives behind my posts and i have a problem clarifying it.
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On August 20 2013 19:03 Xatalos wrote:Solution: policy lynch rayn from now on? 
I have actually never been lynched as town and i intend to never start. 
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On August 20 2013 19:07 Mocsta wrote:
hmmm, i only played two games with you rayn.
sciilian -= town
got = scum
i think you played completely different. The core is teh same; but the intention is different.
I thought you explained yourself quite well in sicilian.
This game you tend to get fixated on points and refuse to concede any ground. Thats normally pretty scummy to me because as scum its already hard to find an argument you believe in enough to rant about.
I think the difference is because the games were so different. There was a clear change of my play here because the lynch mechanic was different (you could compare this better to Titanic, Clarity was spot on of my meta there). When i am not a lord, i need to convince my house lord of something -> they need to convince other lords (as all the non-vote players were really not listened in thread regardless of what they posted). When i am a lord i need to convince other lords (i didn't really give a crap about what non-votes said, because they can't do shit) unless they had good enough arguments for me.
I dunno, it might be something i don't know and you are right about my play changes when i am town/scum but i would not count on it 100%. We'll see about it in the future. :D
At least i had a good track of who was convincing/who was not and who would do what kind of shit in town. Only thing i fucked up was that on D3 i thought Clarity would lead the town over Xatalos onto SnB lynch (although Vivax helped the town alot in that :/ ).
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On August 20 2013 21:44 Clarity_nl wrote:I tried really hard to get scum to shoot solstice btw, why did that not work? 
Because of what i said in scum QT. "As long as he is not a threat to us keep him shooting townies". :D
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...but by then Rayn and myself were happily leading our own distinct corners of town into nowhere useful, with Chrom and Koshi being safely categorized as probable town and leading the internal politics of Baratheon around in circles...
ahahahhaa.. So true and well put. :D
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Hey if someone is gonna do a write-up i would appreciate some insight on how to play better next time. Or marv, if you are kind enough could you PM me?
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On August 21 2013 02:06 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey if someone is gonna do a write-up i would appreciate some insight on how to play better next time. Or marv, if you are kind enough could you PM me? I would like to formally +1 this comment
I can give one opinion. Do not get into shitfests with your scumreads. You clearly did think i was scum on D4. You do not need to convince me i am mafia, you need to convince others. Of course i am not gonna claim scum as scum, instead try to interact with others (when you have reached a conclusion) and convince them. You certainly had enough town credit to maybe even get me lynched, but you wasted your time arguing with me instead of convincing others (that usually leads you into a situation where noone even remembers what the original argument was).
It does not even matter if you are right or wrong in your argument, if you get me lynched and i flip scum, you won. If you do not get me lynched you lost.
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On August 21 2013 02:27 Clarity_nl wrote:Show nested quote +On August 21 2013 02:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 21 2013 02:06 Clarity_nl wrote:On August 21 2013 01:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Hey if someone is gonna do a write-up i would appreciate some insight on how to play better next time. Or marv, if you are kind enough could you PM me? I would like to formally +1 this comment I can give one opinion. Do not get into shitfests with your scumreads. You clearly did think i was scum on D4. You do not need to convince me i am mafia, you need to convince others. Of course i am not gonna claim scum as scum, instead try to interact with others (when you have reached a conclusion) and convince them. You certainly had enough town credit to maybe even get me lynched, but you wasted your time arguing with me instead of convincing others (that usually leads you into a situation where noone even remembers what the original argument was). It does not even matter if you are right or wrong in your argument, if you get me lynched and i flip scum, you won. If you do not get me lynched you lost. Yeah you're right about that one but I wasn't THAT convinced. I just appeared super convinced cause that's what I do. So was trying to figure out if you actually were scum or not and by the end I kinda said "fuck it, I dunno" Show nested quote +It does not even matter if you are right or wrong in your argument, if you get me lynched and i flip scum, you won. If you do not get me lynched you lost I wholeheartedly disagree with this. edit: like I can't even begin to explain how much it matters that I got to my conclusion for the right reasons
The first part. Yeah, you were not convincing enough (and i got the feeling from your previous play that you were not confident enough in your read with me).
The second part. Being wrong sucks. I know it. But you must try. Always try to get your scumread lynched. Even if it's a weak read. Under pressure most mafia players say stuff they should not say (make up something that does not hold water, correct them etc. - i know i did not do that (as you really misread my argument) but i was seriously concerned that you might get me lynched either way, because of your town credit). If you appear unconfident you never accomplish anything. Compare that to Titanic and exarezee lynch. I was wrong, it sucks and i was so pissed off to myself (and to him) after that. That's how it goes sometimes, i fucked up, the next day i tried again.
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Also kitaman was Oberyn? And he did not catch me? \o/
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On August 21 2013 05:56 kitaman27 wrote:Hehe you and Acro did a good job putting distance between each other on day one with that nonsense about not revealing the meaningless plan. With a scum read on Acro and your activity in pms, I never took the time to take a look at you.
Okay, i am proud of myself now. Kita, srsly.... :D
gg, WE KILLED YOU TO DEATH! :;D
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I would definitely be in for another round. I found this to be cool design.
I voted "exact same" on house & PM mechanics. I think they are clear and easy to understand.
I voted "combination of above" to the last poll. Since this is a high KP/HP design, I would love to see something like 2 mafia factions, some kind of third faction(s), and some more creative roles. I don't really know how to combine those to make the game balanced, but this design has a potential of many things because of the special lynch/PM mechanics and people not dying so easily. As a straight up mafia vs town game one side with only a little fuckups can get completely stomped. Imagine if town gets their shit together on N0 and finds a clear townie in every house. They work together and suddenly, GG mafs, nocando pretty much. And vice versa.
EDIT: More factions or/and add 3p(s). More roles that contribute to specific game mechanics but are not too OP would be my TLDR; suggestion.
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EPT
