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On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on".
You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum.
This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either.
Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ Chromatically
Risen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc.
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Vivax can you answer me on Mocsta please?
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On August 15 2013 02:09 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:07 Acrofales wrote:On August 15 2013 01:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax comment on my case on Mocsta please. Lynching mocsta is a fucking terrible idea because statistics. I don't give a shit how scummy he plays until we get later in the game. Also, scum asking his scumbuddy for input. Nice fucking distancing you got going there. You are scum or an idiot. Did you read Red Teams Prize already and compared that to your case?
I was IN RTP. What about it?
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On August 15 2013 02:12 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Vivax can you answer me on Mocsta please?
I don't want to lynch him today.
Your case looks like shit.
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On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc.
No, he specifically said "his town read on FT".
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On August 15 2013 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:46 strongandbig wrote:On August 15 2013 01:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On August 15 2013 01:29 strongandbig wrote:yeah that's one line in a long list of reads that you sent in a pm. That doesn't count as an actual explanation or an actual argument, and the fact that you would even point to that gives me a bad feeling. Prior to that your scum reads are me and onegu, neither of which you actually explain in any detail other than the "misunderstanding" with onegu that you drop eventually. in fact this mocsta thing is close to the second time you actually give reasons other than "he hasn't done anything" for a scum read in this entire game. why vivax? Why not me? Why not onegu? srsly What game are you reading? I have explained my scumread on Onegu. I have explained my scumread on you. I have explained all my reads and all the explanations are in thread. Why are you not reading the thread? on onegu: Onegu - Onegu has not done anything. Lika anything at all. If you look at his posts he is entering rendom discussions for what? To have nothing to say. Look at when he tells he has already given his thoughts about Solstice & Clarity. His conclusion on Solstice is "we need to hear from him". Right. On Clarity he redacted from his town read because he was not willing find out about role names. So his whole discussion & conclusion is worthless. Now he is trying to figure out FirmTofu. Nothing on that front. scum. "hasn't done anything" You clearly do not think much or you are scum, Onegu. not a reason Onegu you asked me about my read on SnB.
I am a bit puzzled. All i say is "i think SnB is scum" and you move on to completely different matters. Why is that? Did my answer please you enough? as it stands this is not a reason. if you think onegu isn't following up on his reads or that he's being scummily noncommittal then say so, but this is not enough to justify a main scum suspicion. I think Onegu is scum so do not necessarily trust him. What was the case? not a reason On me: SnB voting for onegu bothers me a bit. not a reason I think SnB is scum not a reason What about SnB? The only thing i remember him doing was the bullshit info-hide with Clarity and Oats, and i think those two are town. Has he really been as active in PM´s as he claims? I have ~5 PM´s from him. "hasn't done anything" I didn´t think about this earlier, but after rereading my stuff with SnB it was really weird. He started the PM´s asking me if my suspicion on "this 'ft' guy has weakened". The PM looked somewhat roleplay, so i thought he was RPing. Apparently he wasn't. Is there anyone else who didn't figure out who i was talking about in my post (apparently Risen was lol)? not a reason I think there is also something fishy in Clarity/SnB/Oats stuff. Remember when people were accusing Clarity for his reaction test? That rant went on for hours and hours just because "someone had a townread on Clarity for some reasons". Why not just fucking out the read to get people discuss it? Then Oats' read was REALLY REALLY weak. You remember the reasons? i guess this maybe counts as a reason? Is this really why you think I'm scum? I didn't even know about the reason for oats's read, I just knew he had fakeclaimed to clarity and clarity's reaction made him think clarity was town. I'm scum because i didn't tell you about oats's fakeclaim to clarity before oats said to? this is retarded. yeah i know what game i'm reading. what game are you playing? lol dude, you are funny. Onegu: Has (apparently) been active/townie in PM's. Noone to prove that any more and Oberyn would not tell me why before he died. None of this towniness comes up in thread (barring late D2 when he was saying good stuff). How is this not clear? You: You quoted my read on you. You also LEFT OUT THE FUCKING CONCLUSION! Which was btw this: Show nested quote +After all i think SnB comes out from this as most scummiest. He should have taken the leader position as town and stop the bullshit. Oats, other than that post of his looks town to me. This is traditional Oats´ townplay, he is fucking off and saying stupid stuff. Clarity looks fairly town to me aswell, he is somewhat making sense, especially with his reads. IMO Clarity is amongst the people who have scumhunted the most at the time. I could kill like half of the town for not scumhunting. Other than this you have not done shit. Period.
yeah that's the same stuff as the other thing i quoted. I'm scum for not revealing oats's fakeclaim gambit before he did. After I accused clarity of being scum for not asking me about my plan before he messed with it. Really, get your shit together.
and "you haven't done anything" is both a lie and not a real argument.
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a hypothetical scum rayn wouldn't want a hypothetical town risen to flip because that'd mean he's the last in a house alive with no scum flips in it, which would be disaster.
food for thought.
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On August 15 2013 01:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 00:55 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:36 Xatalos wrote:On August 14 2013 22:28 Vivax wrote:Xatalos, the most recent reasoning for lynching Risen I found is this: I think snb might actually be town because I had this exact same thought (although less fleshed out) just a bit earlier. Risen's first post was so bad and yet so much effort was put in it. After that... Almost nothing. No follow-up to his first post or anything. No pushing his reads. There's a clear difference between the effort in his first post and everything after that.
Give me an updated bullet list of your points against him please, there's much more to go with than just the quantity of his posts in the beginning. While you're at it, give me a reason for me being scum that hasn't to do with activity, cause that's probably the reason 99 % in here have for thinking I'm scum. You're just skating by and targeting popular lynch targets, the latest case you wrote was on jkirby, and that was upon Acrofales' request. You're clearly not reading very closely. That was just my second post against Risen, with almost the same content as the first one. I had more after that, like his contradictory statements about his scumreads on me and DI (and also his push for Sharrant didn't feel right, nor his faulty logic with his original accusations and how he never followed up on them). iamperfection initially got me suspicious of you. Here's a summary of his opinions (from the last will post): "Vivax- so i reread what he posted after i told him i think he is scum. Fucker still has not had a single strong push the entire game. vivax should be leading the town or fighting me if im wrong about sompething he simply does not care what is going on and isnt trying to catch scum. He does this because he is scum" Basically, lack of genuine effort, pushing, involvement... Not just lack of activity. Lynchworthy for sure. After some PM'ing with Clarity I'm not as confident in Risen being scum anymore. He's generally crazy and it's hard to distinguish between crazy town and crazy scum. Maybe his faulty logic is explained by his general lack of logical thinking. For now it might be a better idea to lynch you, s0Lstice, snb or Mocsta (unless he keeps up his clear effort, which isn't very easy to do as scum). Effort, pushing, involvement. You mention things that aren't very empiric, so to say. You don't show if I'm pushing scum agenda, you don't quote particular posts, you say it's not activity, but you don't tell how you measure the three attributes you think make me scum when they are usually correlated to activity. The case on me is bullshit, I'm town, and I have yet to see a case with a clear line of thought that doesn't use activity as argument. I invite you to make one based on the content of my posts, and I'll dunk it, and you afterwards if you fuck up. I don't see what you mean with contradictory statements from Risen. You posted that he was wrong about you and Dandel, afterwards you posted this: On August 09 2013 21:21 Xatalos wrote:
I agree that Risen is quite likely town (unfortunately, one might also say).
So I wonder now, why do you mention something that is supposed to make him scum when in the past it wasn't reason enough and you gave him a townread in spite of what you call a contradiction now. Activity is an excellent argument. I am a true believer in simply lynching anybody who produces significantly less pages of filter than in his average town game. It works for me, it works for Hapa and I have no doubt it works for you. But here's what I compiled on you and was going to post before I saw you responded. Regarding Vivax, he has been inactive as fuck. Usually he spams up the thread being an obnoxious dick when he's town, forcing people to listen to him. He either gets lynched himself, or nails most of the scum. As scum he is more subdued and cooperative. This game fits neither, because he is just plain afk. However, there's some things that indicate he's a scummy fuck: Show nested quote +On August 09 2013 05:28 Acrofales wrote:Hrmmm, playing a game of elimination, Vivax is the remaining member of House Stark. On August 09 2013 00:06 Vivax wrote:On August 08 2013 21:20 Koshi wrote:On August 08 2013 19:55 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 19:47 Koshi wrote:
@ Oats. Tell me why you have townreads on your house. Don't use names but you can at least tell us WHY they are town. It's impossible to actually know if somebody is town in your house. At this point I think Oats his house is filled with scum only. Why I have townreads on the dudes? Cause they are nice and helpful and shit. No obvious scummy pms, natural. Nothing like your house, controversy everywhere. On August 08 2013 21:12 Oatsmaster wrote:On August 08 2013 21:06 Xatalos wrote:Oats, why do you have a scumread on Koshi again? Because this post before claiming him as scum doesn't really explain it: On August 08 2013 19:47 Oatsmaster wrote:Oats, we just played in Titanic and you come in this thread and say that you know that everybody in your house is town and that you will protect their identity? You must be really REALLY confident in this game.
You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Um what? My reads were mostly right in Titanic. 1 wrong read. whatever. I only prevent you from knowing who I can contact through pms. All this other stuff is really weird. I didnt get elected. koshi didnt explain why dandel's actions was scum, when all the things he said seem to be townie to me, like agressive and shit. Killing kush was probably a joke, dunno. Also, he didnt explain why im scum. This whole statement is bullshit. You prevent us to find scum in your house and you prevent your house by talking about how you got elected or prevent them from giving away information about you. Its not what Im doing at all. And its really weird that this is the conclusion that he drew from my statements so far. 1) Oats townreads are either "nice and shit" or "agressive and shit". 2) Oats does not realise that this game is 6 pages long instead of 20. 3) Oats calls me scum if I point out he is shitting up the thread. 4) Oats does not answer me when I ask him who should be lord in our house in theory, but then wants me to explain to him why I find DI scummy over S0lstice. Here is my first real scumread. This is not concise reasoning for Oats being scum, The first two don't seem relevant, and I'm not sure that he's calling you scum just for 3). 4 is him being an ass to you, isn't necessarily alignment indicative. Do you really think he's scum for those reasons? To me it looks like you're angry at him and calling him scum for that. If you think he's scum then I want to see a clear line of thought in reaching that conclusion. I would like to see any reasons you have for your scumreads to be presented in a concise case with no waffle, especially with material from the thread that's available to everyone. I'm not willing to take anything you and Dandel say regarding lies and inconsistencies during the night at face value until there are members of your house to present their version of events between you two. This seems like a really strange soft-defense of Oatsmaster. Either he was completely oblivious to the goings on in his own house, or he had a town read based on that. I am confused about why he stood up to defend Oatsmaster's honor: he's not calling Koshi scum based on it, in fact there are no conclusions at all. With the knowledge that he had already talked to Oats in private this just looks like a baseless soft-defense of a house member who it seems he should have been suspicious of. Anybody from House Stark (or Vivax himself) want to elaborate on Vivax's role in the internal politicking? Vivax, why did you make this soft-defense post of Oats? His response was to say that he suspected Koshi, but that doesn't seem to be the main point of this post at all. More just buddying up to Oats. We then have: Show nested quote +On August 10 2013 03:13 Vivax wrote:On August 10 2013 02:53 Sharrant wrote:
Hey, Vivax, you're the perfect one to answer this. You actually hydra'ed with Kush. The question was whether Kush says 'fags' normally. Does he? You would know much better than I.
I can only tell you that Kush likes the word ANAL. I prefer not having to draw conclusions from someone using specific derogative terms. You could let him do a IAT with town-scum categories and have him post the results here, that would be serious shit. Is there anyone specific you're trying to present to your lord for lynching? Posting this makes no sense, other than, again, as a soft-defense. Why even bring this up? I am having a hard time wrapping my mind around why a loyalist would point this out. From a Blackfyre point of view it's obvious: it's a "look guys, I'm posting" post, with the added bonus of maybe sidetracking the thread and any discussion about kush. The main point in Vivax's favour is Clarity defending him, saying he seemed convinced Yamato was scum in private. Nothing ever seems to have come from this private read. I would like Clarity to elaborate.
On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on".
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+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 02:14 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc. No, he specifically said "his town read on FT".
Oh that's from PMs? Well, in thread he talked about a post of mine on Onegu, calling it a soft-defense.
Chrom, you had s0lstice as scumread, shouldn't his defense of Sharrant I posted make you suspicious of him, and do you think it's likely that he bussed yammo D1 already?
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I was definitely referring to the post where you try to shift attention away from FT, Vivax. I've been talking about Vivax in PMs with people, just not in thread, because he isn't nearly as scummy as Sharrant.
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On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc.
it's not about having malleable reads, it's about how you stick up for the reads you do have
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On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch.
I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim.
The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me.
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On August 15 2013 02:18 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On August 15 2013 02:14 Chromatically wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:11 Vivax wrote:On August 14 2013 23:59 strongandbig wrote:
Anyway here's what I said to clarity about vivax, and it's what makes me think he's scum that has nothing to do with activity:
also i feel like vivax's reads change a lot and he's not nearly as aggressive as usual when he's town. if you look at his reads, for the lynch/kp target he goes koshi->sharrant->koshi->yamato->yamato or johnnywup->koshi or me
most of the time his reasons were switching were "it doesn't seem like i can convince lords to go for my scumread." That doesn't feel like vivax, he seems like the kind of person who rages when people don't listen to him rather than the kind of person who just says "okay moving on". You were in Sicilian, you should know from logs that I can be quite malleable. Just your first post was so bad that I never swayed from the opinion you were scum. This is a game where you don't have a voice unless lords listen to you. I posted my points on Koshi D1, Oberyn his on yammo. Lords preferred Onegu, then FT. I had no way of knowing what those guys were, except that Onegu claimed to be busy, hence I couldn't really speak up against their lynches either. Reads changing. That's not scummy unless you show it is.
@ ChromaticallyRisen was referring to my post on Onegu when he claimed I was defending people iirc. No, he specifically said "his town read on FT". Oh that's from PMs? Well, in thread he talked about a post of mine on Onegu, calling it a soft-defense. Chrom, you had s0lstice as scumread, shouldn't his defense of Sharrant I posted make you suspicious of him, and do you think it's likely that he bussed yammo D1 already?
Solstice is town because of PMs, sorry I have to do that but that's really what it is. He's interested in finding scum and has had a townie thought process about it.
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On August 15 2013 02:22 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch. I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim. The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me.
+1
Also, ##Unvote
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On August 15 2013 02:22 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch. I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim. The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me.
How convenient.
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I am done talking with SnB. He is mafia.
Dandel explain? I have been PMing with Risen all game long, why is it impossible that i have a town read on him?
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On August 15 2013 02:26 Risen wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:22 Acrofales wrote:On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch. I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim. The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me. How convenient.
How useless. Can you for a second assume Sharrant is town and work from there? Your pointless tunneling of a townie is getting us nowhere.
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On August 15 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am done talking with SnB. He is mafia.
Dandel explain? I have been PMing with Risen all game long, why is it impossible that i have a town read on him?
okay sure
i still don't know why you think i'm mafia except that i didn't reveal oats's fakeclaim when you were confused about it. but fine stopping interacting with me will make it better.
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On August 15 2013 02:29 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On August 15 2013 02:26 Risen wrote:On August 15 2013 02:22 Acrofales wrote:On August 15 2013 01:15 Risen wrote:
So we have a claimed cop who didn't die last night with a red check on the clear lynch candidate for d2. Has anyone thought why there would be a one shot cop in this game when there's so many people? There isn't.
This is so simple a lynch. I told him in private that if he wasn't roleblocked or killed, he was scum. He has claimed roleblocked. I don't see a third roleblocked claim. The way the roleblock claims have worked out, it seems unlikely they are fake and it seems unlikely a town JK blocked him. So he was blocked by scum. Seems legit to me. How convenient. How useless. Can you for a second assume Sharrant is town and work from there? Your pointless tunneling of a townie is getting us nowhere.
#lynchrisen2013
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On August 15 2013 02:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am done talking with SnB. He is mafia.
Dandel explain? I have been PMing with Risen all game long, why is it impossible that i have a town read on him?
Awesome. @Risen: what is your opinion of raynpelikoneet?
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EPT
