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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
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FirmTofu
United States1956 Posts
On July 27 2013 06:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote: To make it slightly easier on the Europeans without discomforting the Australasians too much, would anyone have a problem with moving the deadline up 2 hours to 00:00 GMT (+00:00)? This would actually work better for me | ||
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On July 27 2013 06:30 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: I'll be drunk either way so I don't really care. If you're a Caucasianasian smurf, please don't afk and be drunk all game like you did in NWM. | ||
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On July 27 2013 07:51 Stutters695 wrote: I might be dead but I still can't get over how hot Kate Winslet was in that movie. | ||
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On July 27 2013 09:01 Vivax wrote: Hi guys, I propose that we lynch the lurkiest guy D1.Obviously if someone looks really scummy then we lynch him first, but if that's not the case then we lynch the guy with the least posts. I think scum really likes to post as few as possible. I know that's gonna look kinda scummy, but I'm going to bed now. Gn! This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. | ||
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On July 27 2013 09:23 Koshi wrote: I was thinking to count to 50. Would have faked it a bit if this wasn't the first post on a page. Can you explain this bit please? | ||
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Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? | ||
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1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. | ||
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On July 27 2013 10:56 exarezee wrote: This talk of lurkers is really confusing me. I mean, we SHOULD all know better than to do this. Why is this even being discussed? If someone falls for the "trap" it's mostly due to naivety than anything else. I think we should move the discussion along. As I have not played with you guys before, it is difficult to make tonal reads on Day 1. I already find a few people scummy: koshi and paperscraps. But this is only a slight lean, as i realize some people just post more "scumlike" than others. What? You don't want to discuss it? Are you deliberately trying to stifle discussion? If you don't want to talk about this, then what DO you want to talk about? Also, you are just naming people without saying why you find them scummy. Please explain why. Your suspicions mean nothing unless you elaborate on them. | ||
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On July 27 2013 11:26 exarezee wrote: We're obviously not going to lynch a lurker Day 1. To do so would be a terrible play on the collective town's part. If we assume that it's a bad play to lynch a lurker, why are we discussing it? Do you want me to elaborate on why lynching a lurker is bad? I said I have a slight scum read based on gut instinct and feel. I bunch this together into tonal reads. But like I said, it's very slight as I have not played with the players before. There is no need for me to start throwing evidence on people at the beginning of Day 1 (to be exact there is little evidence). My posts have been much better than some of the fluff already being made. I mean, I can go into more detail why I think koshi and paperscraps have posted more scumlike than others who have posted...but that post can wait. I think you should post it now. Why hold back if you are town? You should have nothing to hide from us. | ||
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On July 27 2013 11:35 exarezee wrote: @FirmTofu I'd rather wait until more posts are made. I think only 6 or 7 of the players in the game have posted so far. If you're going to wait, then I'm going to have to vote you until you do. ##Vote: exarezee You can't simply say you have scumreads and not explain them. | ||
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I'm not sure that the case on paperscraps has much substance to it, but at least it's something. | ||
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Paperscraps would not be a bad lynch for similar reasons. I'm not as convinced as I am for CJS, but suspicion is still there. Right now, exarezee is looking pretty town. | ||
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On July 27 2013 18:37 exarezee wrote: It's difficult to ascertain tone and sarcasm and some of these less subtle jokes on the internet. I even indicated I thought paperscraps was joking early on. But when posts have 0 use and possibly 0 intentions of helping the scum hunt...then it's not really a funny joke anymore. Paperscrap's posts were really poor imo for a townie, but I can accept the possibility that he was "not being serious". One minute he's saying Paperscraps could have been joking around... On July 27 2013 18:54 exarezee wrote: Yea, so apparently everybody who was promoting this lunacy of lynch lurkers were all joking or setting a pretty miserable tarp. Which is why we never needed to go on this path of discussion to begin with. I like a wagon on paperscraps. ...and two posts later, he's saying he wants Paperscraps dead. Why does he feel the need to say, "Oh, yea, Paperscraps might have been joking around...but he's scum anyway." This line of reasoning does not bode well for his alignment. Only scum would be pushing someone while setting themselves up with an excuse for a town flip. Still reading, I'm on page 10 right now. | ||
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On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: You are misrepresenting what I was referring to. When I said cut the fluff, I wasn't talking about the policy lynching lurkers discussion. I was referring to the braces gif that Vayne posted, the useless RP shit coming out of CJS' mouth, and Koshi's jokes about lynching the person with the least posts. Those posts weren't getting us anywhere and needed to be kicked to the curb. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. How is this scummy? I'm voting someone to get them to post their scumreads. If anything, this should be considered town play. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. You are putting words in my mouth that I never said. I never said I want to lynch them "because they're hard to read". I said I wanted to lynch them because all they were doing was posting fluff and being non-contributive. You are are saying this isn't alignment indicative? Well, I think scum are more likely to post fluff than town are. Why would I lynch someone if I didn't think their play was scummy? On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. ... Again, you put words in my mouth that I never said. I never said we should stop scumhunting. I said we shouldn't get overeager with our reads at the time being considering that half the players haven't even posted yet. | ||
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I find it odd that hzflank soft-defended me by talking a lot about how Clarity included a quote from hzflank on his case against me. It feels like hzflank is trying to distance himself from the lynch if I were to get voted, thus firmly establishing himself as an opposing force who wanted to save the townie. The only way I see this happening is if hzflank knows I am town and is acting on that knowledge to make himself look more townie. Who knows I am town? Scum. | ||
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On July 27 2013 22:02 exarezee wrote: Ok, this post is really bothering me now. Wants to get down to business...but also is bogging the game down with the lurker discussion. Like really pushing the discussion from the get-go. Another scummy post from exarezee. He's pushing for my lynch in theory, but is still voting Paperscraps on paper. It's like he wants to throw dirt onto me but doesn't want to be associated with my town flip. On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1. I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. Look at how he INSISTS that both are probably not scum. If he was town, he'd be pushing his scumreads like there's no tomorrow (See: Clarity). He wouldn't be trying to create an out for when Paperscraps or I flip town and he has nothing to fall back on. ##Vote: exarezee | ||
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On July 27 2013 23:53 exarezee wrote: You're exactly right. Scum would ideally want two town wagons Day 1. That's why we wagon paper and tofu......you really think they are town/town with their interactions with me day 1? WTF? Bolded and big'd obvious scumslip. How did no one catch this? | ||
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oh nevermind. I think I misinterpreted that last post. exarezee, can you quickly clarify what you meant in the post about the "town wagons"? Were you referring to me and paper? Wha | ||
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On July 28 2013 02:35 Koshi wrote: That looks pretty okish. He meant that the town/town wagon hz spoke of is clearly not a town/town wagon at all. He just says that he is scum because he is pushing that wagon. Yeah, I think I read it wrong. Okay, back to my case. Be back soon. | ||
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Some of this will be copy/pasted from some of my previous posts so bare with me if you experience deja vu. Here is the first accusatory post that exarzee made. On July 27 2013 10:56 exarezee wrote: This talk of lurkers is really confusing me. I mean, we SHOULD all know better than to do this. Why is this even being discussed? If someone falls for the "trap" it's mostly due to naivety than anything else. I think we should move the discussion along. As I have not played with you guys before, it is difficult to make tonal reads on Day 1. I already find a few people scummy: koshi and paperscraps. But this is only a slight lean, as i realize some people just post more "scumlike" than others. Here he accuses Koshi and paperscraps. Note that he never followed through on his Koshi scumread. A few posts later... On July 27 2013 12:07 exarezee wrote: I mean, this looks really forced doesn't it? You start the thread appearing to be helpful, answering a few questions, etc. etc. Come back in a few, and this is your post? The follow up on Paperscraps. Nothing significant yet, I'm just posting it so you can get an idea of where his head is at this time. On July 27 2013 13:23 exarezee wrote: I'm getting more and more distressed by paperscrap's posts. He starts off posting ok and it is just deteriorating. Pretty generic 1st post. I assumed when he said to lynch all lurkers it was a joke. 2nd post. A pretty safe post leaving himself wiggle room. Says he doesn't mind voting a lurker because they are a libability later in the game. True, but it's more of a liability to lose the game before we get to late game. Backs it up that it's hard to get a read...reinforcing his idea that it's not a bad idea to lynch a lurker. So he knows that we need interactions between the dead and alive to figure out this game. How does he still advocate lynching a lurker? It is basically a waste of a day to lynch someone with few to no interactions. Have the vigilante shoot them for crying out loud or force the scum to night kill them. Leaves for a bit then comes back with this. I've thrown him the softest of scum leans and he comes back with a 1 liner. Notice how none of his previous posts have been similar to this at all. This is just terrible on so many different levels. I'm not even sure how to interpret this. It makes you look scummy at worst or a useless townie at best. I have absolutely 0 idea why you would post this if you were a townsperson. This is the case he made against Paperscraps. At this point, a town exarezee should be tunneling Paperscraps. We should expect pressuring, prodding, or constant attacks going from exarezee to Paperscraps. On July 27 2013 13:26 exarezee wrote: ##Vote: paperscraps The vote establishes that he's serious. Now the fun part... On July 27 2013 18:37 exarezee wrote: It's difficult to ascertain tone and sarcasm and some of these less subtle jokes on the internet. I even indicated I thought paperscraps was joking early on. But when posts have 0 use and possibly 0 intentions of helping the scum hunt...then it's not really a funny joke anymore. Paperscrap's posts were really poor imo for a townie, but I can accept the possibility that he was "not being serious". One minute he's saying Paperscraps could have been joking around... On July 27 2013 18:54 exarezee wrote: Yea, so apparently everybody who was promoting this lunacy of lynch lurkers were all joking or setting a pretty miserable tarp. Which is why we never needed to go on this path of discussion to begin with. I like a wagon on paperscraps. ...and two posts later, he's saying he wants Paperscraps dead. Why does he feel the need to say, "Oh, yea, Paperscraps might have been joking around...but he's scum anyway." This line of reasoning does not bode well for his alignment. Only scum would be pushing someone while setting themselves up with an excuse for a town flip. On July 27 2013 22:02 exarezee wrote: Ok, this post is really bothering me now. Wants to get down to business...but also is bogging the game down with the lurker discussion. Like really pushing the discussion from the get-go. Another scummy post from exarezee. This is the first time he has said anything about finding me scummy. He's pushing for my lynch in theory, but is still voting Paperscraps on paper. It's like he wants to throw dirt onto me but doesn't want to be associated with my town flip. I think the idea is to support Clarity's pressure on me without actually associating himself with the wagon. On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1. I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. Look at how he INSISTS that both are probably not scum. If he was town, he'd be pushing his scumreads like there's no tomorrow (See: Clarity). He wouldn't be trying to create an out for when Paperscraps or I flip town and he has nothing to fall back on. On July 27 2013 23:21 exarezee wrote: It's a useful post for those who think I'm town and several people do. it's also useful to have a nice concise argument that one of those two is scum for if/when i die and turn up town. No one said exarezee looks town aside from me very early in the game irrc. It looks like exarezee is trying to push pressure off of him by saying other people think he's town. Scum play at its finest. On July 27 2013 23:33 exarezee wrote: I forgot to address your other point hzflank. I think I've stated who is more likely to be scum by the small case I put on paperscraps and the fact that I voted for him. Why is me advocating the 2 wagons bad? I feel like I will get a lot of useful information regardless of how they turn. My scum lean on paperscraps isn't even that strong...and if he actually was joking then it's a very slight lean. Still, based on their interactions with me and their voting history on Day 1, I firmly believe that one of those two is scum. Another post saying that he isn't even all that convinced that paperscraps is scum. If he's not sure if Paperscraps is scum, why is he voting him? For information? On Day 1? That's absurd. This logic also is very scum-esque because of how it sets up scum in future days. Assuming Paperscraps and I are both town and Paperscraps is lynched, exarezee can quote this post and go, "Well, I said I was sure one of them was scum, I wasn't sure which one. FirmTofu must be scum guys." On July 28 2013 00:00 exarezee wrote: I understand it's probably going to look pretty bad for me and potentially cost the town the game if both paper and tofu turn up town...but it's just crying that one of those two attempted a really poor attack at me in the hopes of garnering a following. Another post insuring himself against my town flip. He knows I will flip town, so he is planning ahead for when I flip by saying, "I'm sorry if I'm wrong". Thanks for reading. ©TofuLogic Incorporated | ||
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On July 28 2013 03:14 Oatsmaster wrote: hey tofu wanna lynch justanothertownie? Why/why not? Read your case, if Im not wrong, it is basically stuff surrounding paperscraps and his 2 wagon shit right? I dunno man, its a lotta conspiracy theory based on scum setting up wagons and leaving himself outs. From what Ive seen, scum dont really leave themself outs. I dunno, your logic is fine, but I feel that exarezee has been posting really clearly and I can see his thought process and all that townie shit. Also not a good idea to kill active poster day 1. I will take a look into his filter. This isn't conspiracy theory shit. They are scumtells, plain and simple. A conspiracy theory is when you make an elaborate story to establish relationships between multiple players. Just ask hzflank, he knows all about them. | ||
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On July 28 2013 03:40 exarezee wrote: So paperscraps was suspicious in your eyes. Nothing has changed regarding paperscraps, as he hasn't posted till a few minutes ago. Why do you not have him in your sights anymore? Mostly because I think you are scum and if you are scum, paperscraps is likely town. Do you think I'm scum? | ||
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On July 28 2013 03:43 exarezee wrote: Also, why is CJS not your top candidate anymore? He's on the same level as all my other reads that are relatively useless and post fluff. He has somewhat redeemed himself in my eyes with his conversation prodding you. I'm trying to lynch scum and you are the closest thing to scum for me right now. | ||
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On July 28 2013 04:00 hzflank wrote: Have you read the thread thoroughly? CJS has had more than one good conversation and has been by far the most useful town player in this game. If CJS is scum then he deserves a medal for this day 1 play. Also, has this exchange with Exar made him look at all less scummy to you? I wasn't even saying CJS is a scumread for me right now... Nope, still scum on exarezee. His responses look like a feeble attempt to save face. | ||
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On July 28 2013 03:52 exarezee wrote: Well, I've shown that three of your statements about me that are part of your case are completely wrong. 1. I did say something about koshi 2. I'm not trying to distance myself from you and throw soft accusations at you. 3. I had 3 people lean town on me when I made the post saying several people had town reads on me. You got anything else? You picked and chose the point that you felt were easier to defend. 1. I was talking about why you hadn't pursued Koshi. If you are scum, it is useful to make note of. Koshi is a possible scumbuddy of yours. 2. You are just saying you aren't doing something that I say you're doing. There is no evidence to back up your defense. It's like I went, "You did this, this. and this." and you are like, "Nope. I didn't. Ha! Take that!". 3. This isn't even a significant part of my post. I also said "if I recall correctly", meaning I wasn't entirely sure. Can you address the meat of my post instead of dodging everything? | ||
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On July 28 2013 04:14 exarezee wrote: I copied all your posts and addressed each of them. What am i picking and choosing? I'm going to copy and paste all the parts of my post that you chose not to address to make it abundantly clear for you that you did pick and choose what to answer. Look at how he INSISTS that both are probably not scum. If he was town, he'd be pushing his scumreads like there's no tomorrow (See: Clarity). He wouldn't be trying to create an out for when Paperscraps or I flip town and he has nothing to fall back on. Another post saying that he isn't even all that convinced that paperscraps is scum. If he's not sure if Paperscraps is scum, why is he voting him? For information? On Day 1? That's absurd. This logic also is very scum-esque because of how it sets up scum in future days. Assuming Paperscraps and I are both town and Paperscraps is lynched, exarezee can quote this post and go, "Well, I said I was sure one of them was scum, I wasn't sure which one. FirmTofu must be scum guys." Another post insuring himself against my town flip. He knows I will flip town, so he is planning ahead for when I flip by saying, "I'm sorry if I'm wrong". That's only a sample. You've ignored more parts as well. You also didn't quote any evidence to support your defense. All of it is just, "I didn't do that!" and "Nope. You're wrong." | ||
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On July 28 2013 04:14 Oatsmaster wrote: FT, thoughts on justanothertownie? Give me some time yo. | ||
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No, I would not lynch him today Oats. Not unless you make a good case against him. | ||
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On July 28 2013 14:28 Oatsmaster wrote: I know right Vayne ^^. So FT. He says that JAT having a town read on him is a town tell. What the fuck. Then he goes on and says the scummy part of his filter. Apparently they cancel each other out. Also, he cares more about his appearance than lynching scum as can be seen by the fact that he asks me to make a case. He would sheep me but only if the case is good. Not that JAT is scum. Totally wrong mindset here. Lynch him. No, I didn't say JAT having a town read on me is a town tell. That's simply untrue. I said he has me as a town read. Now, scum usually have some town as town reads. That is not meaningful in itself, however, when it's coupled with the fact that he has a lot of posts that indicate that his town read on me is somewhat justifiable from a town perspective. If you would like, I'll quote them for you. I'm not going to sheep you if you make a good case. I'll consider voting him if you make a good case. There's a big difference there. | ||
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Anyone have any questions for me to answer? I'm gonna try and dive some filters now. | ||
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On July 28 2013 15:39 Paperscraps wrote: Hey, do you still think exarezee is a good lynch for today? I am leaning town on him right now. If anything I think there are better lynches, such as Vivax or JAT. Also I think my initial read on hzflank was hasty, after re reading his filter I find him being a possible lynch choice as well. exarezee is a great lynch for today and I don't think we'll get a better one. Even if you aren't convinced by my case, you can always read his responses and see if they look town to you. If I thought his responses were adequate, I would have backed off immediately. The problem is that his defense is pretty meager. First of all, he didn't answer half of my case. He picked and chose the points he felt he could defend strongly. Secondly, almost his entire defensive is in a dismissive tone where he just goes to each point and says, "That isn't true because I'm town." If he was town he'd be addressing my points directly. Also, I find it odd that he isn't voting me after I posted such a lengthy case against him. Remember, he found me scummy before the case, so why doesn't he find me more scummy after it? After all, from his point of view, I'm tunneling a townie. If I were town in his position, I think I would fight back with accusations, not just defensive posts. | ||
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On July 27 2013 09:01 Vivax wrote: Hi guys, I propose that we lynch the lurkiest guy D1.Obviously if someone looks really scummy then we lynch him first, but if that's not the case then we lynch the guy with the least posts. I think scum really likes to post as few as possible. I know that's gonna look kinda scummy, but I'm going to bed now. Gn! This first post is supposed to be a bait according to Vivax(see his second post). On July 27 2013 17:30 Vivax wrote: Wtf guys. Did nobody find my post scummy? Man I suck. Fuck lurker lynches. Lynch scum. ##vote stutters This is so off...isn't it? He just said "fuck lurker lynches", but then votes a lurker. What? Either way, this could just be a pressure vote, working as more bait. Moving on... On July 28 2013 09:34 Vivax wrote: I'd say the best nuggets Vayne provided so far were gifs, pics, trolly stuff and a post about his scum meta. That said, I endorse his lynch for today, and stutters' lynch as second option actually cause I can't tell if he's really busy or scum, but I know Vayne wasn't busy and still posted trash. I suggest you all realize that D1 has serious potential to end up in a crapshoot, and that RNGing a lynch makes it more likely to hit scum than finding scum according to mafia database statistics. I'm an adamant supporter of using D1's as vig shots in lack of a better lynch, and I'll admit it: In this spammy, short post and trolly town, I'm kinda still lacking of reliable clues on who could be likely scum, hence I propose we get rid of Vayne for posting shit. Jack Sparrow at least is improving when asked to. Bolded relevant. He's flip-flopping on his stance on lurkers again. Is Day 1 a crapshoot or not, Vivax? Should we be lynching scum or lurkers, Vivax? Can you please be more clear as to where you stand on this issue? | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:31 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Don't assume I'm quitting. I'm not in a good state to play right now. I will be back after the deadline with a FULL explanation of why I'm acting this way. I'm sorry to everyone but I can't handle playing right now. Sorry I lynched you in Bluelightz... Hey guys, I'm just about caught up. I find it extremely suspicious that Vivax has not read/answered my questions about him. Vivax, any reason you've been avoiding me? | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:41 Vivax wrote: Yes, I'm human, I'm not at home, I can also be lazy, and I focused on my scumreads. Is anyone who didn't post anything about you scum now? I didn't say you were scum, not sure how you jumped to that conclusion. Here is the quoted post. On July 28 2013 15:56 FirmTofu wrote: This first post is supposed to be a bait according to Vivax(see his second post). This is so off...isn't it? He just said "fuck lurker lynches", but then votes a lurker. What? Either way, this could just be a pressure vote, working as more bait. Moving on... Bolded relevant. He's flip-flopping on his stance on lurkers again. Is Day 1 a crapshoot or not, Vivax? Should we be lynching scum or lurkers, Vivax? Can you please be more clear as to where you stand on this issue? You have no excuse to avoid this now. | ||
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On July 29 2013 02:54 Vivax wrote: This is getting into semantics on what constitutes a lurker, but I voted stutters cause he posted a loaded question that was in no way useful for finding scum, and then fucked off. Now he claimed being busy, but I voted him cause I found that part scummy, not cause of some category I put him into. I think we should lynch lurkers, not scum. Hope this illustrates the value of your question. Okay, I'm just trying to break this down to try and understand your thought process. Your first post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=4#79 Stance: Lynch lurkers Second post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=9#171 Stance: Lynch scum Third Post: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=9#174 Stance: Lynch scum? Stutters is "scum" not a "lurker" to you: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=177&topic_id=422720 Stance: Lynch scum "Vayne would be a good lynch, maybe even better than Stutters": http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=23#444 Stance: Lynch lurker/fluff poster? "Now I want to lynch rayn too":http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=32#636 Stance: Lynch lurker "PS might not actually be town?":http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=33#645 Stance: Lynch scum And finally, your recent post responding to me is of 2 minds. You say you voted stutters because you found him scummy. Then you say you want to lynch lurkers today, not scum. I'm sorry, I don't think I'm following at ALL. | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:12 Vivax wrote: Tofu, I have a question. Who do you think fits the profile of a lurker right now? As of this moment, rayn Malongo Koshi vayne JAT/stutters/Paperscraps are borderline. If I wanted to lynch a lurker today, it'd be Koshi or rayn, possibly Malongo or vayne. Koshi has just been posting lists of other lurkers(note the irony) which is completely useless. rayn hasn't even posted jack shit. Can you respond to my post now? | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:17 exarezee wrote: Let's assume you are town and have labeled someone else scum and do a filter of their posts. You find a post by theirs that you think is really bad and will lend support to your cause. Would you not be excited? Fixed. Your logic works both ways. | ||
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I want to know why you think Paperscraps and I being on the same scum team is so unlikely. You still haven't justified that logic. Why is it that you would drop your case on me if Paper flips scum? | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:21 exarezee wrote: of course it works both ways. You just agreed with my point. We should not give you MORE town cred for what you did. I do agree with it, lol. I don't think that behavior warranted town cred at all. However, I'll take what I can get. I'm town, after all. | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:24 exarezee wrote: why don't you filter through my posts? i've explained that at least 2-3 times. I've read it. I don't understand it. Could you please explain it now? I'm sitting here, willing to listen. | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:18 Vivax wrote: Dunno, I got the feeling he's suspecting me as well, not that he's tunneling you and only you withou considering new evidence. @Tofu I don't get what's hard to follow. I say what I find scummy about whom, and I want to lynch people who exclusively post bullshit and sows with ducklings, and people who don't post jack, especially D1 should be used to do the latter. I don't have an internal switch lurker lynch/scum lynch, I have a "get rid of liabilities and lynch scummy people" mindset, that's all. If I switch target frequently it's cause I adapt. I'm going to leave you alone until the flip because I don't think you would be a good lynch today. I'll be watching you, though. Your behavior feels slimy to me. | ||
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On July 29 2013 03:28 exarezee wrote: You two have drawn too much attention to yourselves early in Day 1. It is pretty bold when there is no N0. It requires very careful coordination to both soft attack/accuse the same person who if he turns up town will put some pressure back on you eventually. It's just not likely for scum to do this kind of thing. Let's suppose a scum starts the initial vote on someone. It's very rare that another scum will immediately jump onto that ship. Fair enough. I still think you're scum. This reminds me of my newbie game with hzflank where I tunneled scum and no one believed me. We ended up lynching all the other scum first because everyone thought my scumread was too abrasive to be scum. History repeats itself. | ||
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Exarezee is scum. I'm not sure what else I can say to convince you guys. Everything he has done this game is scummy. His defense is scummy. His attack on me is scummy. His attempt to set up 2 wagons is scummy. My vote stays on exarezee. | ||
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On July 29 2013 04:26 Stutters695 wrote: Reread it, he's so obviously town I find it hard to believe you can't see it. Explain to me how he's town. | ||
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On July 27 2013 22:25 exarezee wrote: I think paperscraps and firmtofu are a good 1,2 wagon combo for day 1. I don't think both are scum, but I think its a high chance one of the two are. Really strange initial votes on me by both of them. I don't understand why I had to be voted because I didn't provide a reason for a tone read I made. Paperscrap's vote is even more bewildering because he states he was "joking in all his posts." So, if they were townies making these votes I would have to assume they are trying to see if anybody jumps on my bandwagon and gain some information from it....but then they really quickly unvote. Just really strange town play IMO. Really can't see this being done as a scum/scum combo. It draws a little too much attention. Again, could be town/town, but I think its really likely a scum/town combo here. On July 27 2013 23:53 exarezee wrote: You're exactly right. Scum would ideally want two town wagons Day 1. That's why we wagon paper and tofu......you really think they are town/town with their interactions with me day 1? On July 28 2013 00:12 exarezee wrote: Let's look at their summarized sequence of interactions with me and assume they are both town. If you can explain to me their logic in this bizarre sequence, i will acquiesce. Tofu attacks me about the lurker talk. I give a scum lean on papers. Tofu votes me because I did not provide a reason for my scum lean on papers. Papers comes back to thread and drops a vote on me. No reason is given. I provide my reason on papers. Tofu unvotes me and casts suspicion on papers now. Papers unvotes me. Papers plays off his posts as jokes. On July 28 2013 00:26 exarezee wrote: So the next question to me is: Well exarezee: What did they do that don't make sense to you? I don't understand why tofu was debating lurkers with me. I don't understand why tofu put a placeholder vote on me. I don't understand why papers dropped in and put a vote on me. I don't understand why tofu unvoted me and soft accused papers when i soft accused papers earlier. I don't understand why papers unvoted me. What I find really odd is that you stopped attacking me after I made my case on you. Am I correct in assuming that my case on you made me more town to you? | ||
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On July 29 2013 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also FT, why is your stance on JAT so wishy-washy? Because I don't really have a read on JAT. I'm not sure what to think of him at all. I could look over him again if you want. ATM he's basically null to me. | ||
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On July 29 2013 04:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: I already did that. Do you want to lynch Koshi or not? And why? If Koshi and Paperscraps were the two wagons today, I would definitely lynch Koshi. My biggest scum read is pushing Paperscraps, so I'm hesitant to think Paper is scum. Koshi has done absolutely nothing to convince me he's town. | ||
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On July 29 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why does it matter that you biggest scumread is pushing paper? What if you are wrong? Are you ignoring the possibility that Paper is mafia because of pre-flip association? That to me sounds like an excuse to avoid voting for / looking into someone. Not ignoring it, I'm just saying it's less likely. Of course, I could be wrong. In my opinion, the chances of that are very slim. If exarezee is mafia, Paper is unlikely to be mafia. That's a fact. Therefore, if I believe exarezee is mafia, then why in the fuck would I vote for Paper? | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:02 exarezee wrote: You could look into paper's posts and form a thought on whether he is town or mafia rather than basing it solely on what you think my alignment is. Okay, give me a few minutes. | ||
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On July 27 2013 15:04 Paperscraps wrote: Agreed. The day has barely begun. If anyone has a serious FoS, they need to check themselves. Half the town hasn't even posted yet. I was hoping people would want to be a bit more "charismatic" today  , but it looks like playing the standard super serious pro-town meta game will be more beneficial to the passengers on this ship. It is just ever so boring, but I can deal with it.TLDR; Besides the first question on my first post, I haven't been serious at all. ##Unvote My first real read of this game is that I like where Tofu's head is at so far. I kind of feel bad, that exar wasted his time dissecting my shenanigans, haha, but not too bad  .This is the first serious post he makes. Using it as a starting point. I don't think it tells us anything just yet. On July 28 2013 10:24 Paperscraps wrote: I have finally caught up! I wrote down some reads as I was catching up. First off I need to say some stuff about my play early on. I get why people would find me scummy so far, tone and sarcasm are hard to convey in text. This is why I will play a more standard game from now on. It isn't helping people find scum, if they are looking at me for joking and being sarcastic and not understanding that is all it is. hzflank leaning town - The more and more I read hz, the more I begin to like him. Not afraid to be abrasive and stand his ground. exarezee null - The argument of either Tofu or I having to be scum strikes me as odd. I don't see any interactions between FT and I, that would merit this stance. I would like a more in-depth analysis of this pairing. One thing that bugs me about exarezee is that he has reacted in a "noob" fashion to the two early votes on him. With his 100+ games played on the poker forums, which I have no reason to doubt, I just can't see why he would react so defensively. I am probably over thinking my read on exarezee, but I don't see him flipping scum at the moment, due his push on me which holds no substance and his reaction. Oats leaning town - I am really hoping Oats is town, his reads and post so far have been great. His comprehension of what is going on is probably the best so far. Clarity leaning town - Nothing really to elaborate on Clarity so far, I doubt most of the players would disagree. One great interaction I found so far was this. This interaction seems genuine. If either of hzflank or exarezee were scum, I would say the other isn't. CapJackSparrow null - I totally dig his RP gimmick so far and I am biased toward him in a good way. I want to say I lean town on him, but I would hold judgement on his alignment for now. Tofu null - I don't think his push on exarezee is the best. It seems to be grasping. The thing with making cases in general is you can always twist and skew people's filter to whatever you think is right. Initially I leaned town on FT, but after his case I retract that some what. Vayne leaning town - not sure what to think of vayne as of yet, he comes in every so often and drops some knowledge. I think his vote on clarity is pretty bad though. His filter strikes me as town though. Koshi leaning town - Koshi is a odd ball so far. I like that he town reads me, haha. I mostly agree with the lists he has made so far. I am going to read some filters more in-depth and meditate on what I have come up with so far. I don't have a strong scum read at the moment. Also I realize I haven't commented on some people who have posted, the reads above were what stuck out to me most on my initial read through. Obviously, I don't really like his read on exarezee. Null is the last thing I'd expect on someone like exarezee. He's posted a ton and there's a ton of information to dissect his role. By the point in the game that this post was made, everyone should have already been leaning one way or another on exarezee. His read on Oats is disturbing. I'm not sure what Oats did that constitutes that strong of a stance on him. Most of Ots' posts were one-liners that held little to no substance. Oats could be a possible scumbuddy of Paper, but I feel like that'd be too obvious. His reads on Koshi and Vayne are pretty awful. I can kind of see why he might think Vayne is town, but Koshi should be null or scum for every town person at that point that Paper made that post. On July 28 2013 11:12 Paperscraps wrote: @exarezee If I was in your shoes and looking at my early posts, I would have realized that they were way too over the top to be serious. I voted you and said lets "murder" this guy, haha. Obviously I am trying to get reactions, since you are being so serious right off the bat. I still don't understand how Tofu and I voting around the same time makes at least one of us confirmed scum. That is a stretch. More realistically, it was too people voting a rather serious player who was posting in a very "pro-town" and "controlled" manner to get him to show some real reads and responses. It is easy to act pro-town and push on people with very little to go off of early off in the game. You haven't wavered much in your general tone and seem to be stubborn which is good. If you took at step back and got some objectivity, I think it would go along way to help you out. You have been focused on Tofu and I and haven't really paused to look at others, which is always a good thing to do. If you still think I am the best lynch after reading other people's filters, then by all means keep voting me. I don't think that is likely at all though. Bolded relevant. I don't like this at all. Why would tunneling be a good thing to do? Paper is telling exarezee to vote him? What? Why would town do this? On July 29 2013 03:18 Paperscraps wrote: ##Vote: justanothertownie JAT is scum. He just sheeped onto the wagon that was on me with out much thought and gave himself an out when I flip town that I am "probably" scum. Vivax actually posted some content and I don't think would be the best lynch today. Stutters I would definitely keep my eye on. hzflank is weird read for me now, I really don't know if he is pushing as town or scum. It was obvious that he wanted to push on Oats and he even admitted to it, which I liked. I have been very transparent in my posting up to this point. Yes, I had a lot of town reads when I caught up, You act like it is hard to act "town" day 1. I couldn't care less what people perceive me as. If I was scum, I would just be all amicable, maybe start some BS case against some one who made some questionable posts and call it a day. I thought the people playing this game would be able to read past the simple charades of others, but that doesn't seem to be the case. Good vig shots tonight would be rayn and/or stutters. I think their flips would be more beneficial than the content or rather lack of content they post. This is a decent post. He starts pushing a read and it looks like he is adapting based on new information (his read on hzflank has changed). I'm not entirely sure this post invalidates all of his scummy posting, but I can agree that he has been fairly transparent throughout the thread. Conclusion: I'm actually a little bit surprised that Paper has been this scummy. If you hadn't made me filter dive, I don't think I would have this read on him. I agree, Paperscraps is quite scummy all things considered. However, his posting does seem genuine. I think that if we give him another day, he'll be able to redeem himself. | ||
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On July 29 2013 05:46 Vivax wrote: It's funny, Tofu, you actually bring some good arguments to the table (the "vote for me if you want" one), except for the reads. Do you automatically assume that wrong=scum? What makes me curious is that you want someone who is scummy to redeem himself? Is he scum or is he not scum? If he's scummy and you think is scummy, why exactly do you want him to redeem himself? No, wrong isn't scum. However, if I can't see why how his reasoning would make sense from a town perspective, I consider that scummy. Like I said before, I still think exarezee is scum. This makes me think Paper is town. Bad town, but town nonetheless. All the scummy things I pointed out could have been mistakes made by bad town. That's why I would much rather lynch exarezee and give Paper another chance. However if the lynch comes down to Koshi vs. Paper, I'm not so sure where I would stand. I'm going to filter dive Koshi as well and decide. | ||
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Could you explain why you think hzflank is mafia? Maybe make a case on him? | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: I meant he does stupid stuff as town. See our QT, where he says he has no real reads. See also how he shoots mer 1 hour into the game. Also look at Sicilian where he flipped. On D1 he posted nothing but useless stuff. I am not saying he sure is town but i don't see anything scummy from him. Just dumb. Yeah, but if you think he's dumb, wouldn't he be playing dumb as scum too? I'm currently filter diving him and I'm not getting a strong town read from him. | ||
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I'm pretty sure you're the only one voting me. Could we get a vote count please? | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yeah but there are like 8 players who think you are scummy... Why the fuck should i not push my top scumread? When the fuck did I say you shouldn't push your top scumread? I know I'm town. I know you're wrong. So obviously, I think you should get your ass off of me... You do this every game rayn. Try reading my filter objectively for once. | ||
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On July 29 2013 06:31 raynpelikoneet wrote: You should realize you are one of the top lynch candidates based purely on what people think of you. You still haven't defended you against my case. Why? Afaik you are not voting for anyone atm. Who do you want to lynch? You seem to think many people are scummy but you are not voting. Why? I'm voting exarezee. You have no case. You just said you think I'm scum because exarezee is town to you and my points against him are bad. Now, you can hold that stance. That's fine. However, you can't accuse me of not defending myself from it. Like I said, I'm looking into a possible Malongo/Koshi/Paper scum team. I'll be back soon. Until then, hold off on your bullshit. | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Paperscraps | ||
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On July 29 2013 07:08 Malongo wrote: The thing is your case on Paper was conveniently tunneled and wagoned early and nipticked and I found you lying 2 times. A) When you said the guy was not answering you directly. hint: he did B) When you said *how pleople find Paper townie posting. hint: null =/= townie That and the fact that now we are ending the day with 0 pressure on active lurkers as you wanted with your initial posts. ##Vote hzflank What the fuck are you doing? If you are town, start voting someone who can actually get lynched today. Do I really need to spell this out for you? | ||
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I think the scumteam is either Paper/Malongo/Koshi OR exarezee/hzflank/someone else exarzee is still my top scum read, but no one wants to lynch him. I have to vote someone who is actually going to be lynched. The only people who could even possibly be lynched here are Malongo and Paper. I picked paper because he tells me more about exarezee. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am gonna be so fucking mad if you guys don't vote for Koshi today. Creating another wagon at this point will split the vote and could cause a no lynch. I'm fairly certain that if Paper is scum, Koshi probably is too. Do you agree? | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:17 raynpelikoneet wrote: I have a 95% feeling this lynch is gonna be a mislynch. I'll be back in 15min. Now sauna. Wait, what happened in between the last two pages that shifted your read so dramatically? You were pursuing Paper and now suddenly you think Koshi is confirmed scum? | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:22 Vivax wrote: Do you think it's even worth considering that Rayn could be scum? What happened to your XRZ scumread actually. PS asked a good question: Why do you think it's so likely that XRZ is bussing PS so early?Cause that's what your current reads foot on. I don't think that at all. Read my posts. I'm nearly 100% sure that xrz and paper are not on the same scumteam. | ||
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Player List: 1. Oatsmaster 2. Vivax 3. Clarity_nl 4. MCaptainJackSparrow 5. raynpelikoneet 6. Paperscraps 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 10. hzflank 11. Koshi 13. justanothertownie 14. exarezee Yes, I think exarezee is town now based on the way he's been behaving regarding the lynch. I'm null on those without colors. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:49 Koshi wrote: Tofu. If paper turns green that changes right? Vivax and rayn look bad then? If paper flips green, I'm not sure what to think. I'm pretty sure that you and Malongo are town though. | ||
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On July 29 2013 08:48 FirmTofu wrote: My reads. I don't have much time, but I'll expand on these in my next post if there's still time. Player List: 1. Oatsmaster 2. Vivax 3. Clarity_nl 4. MCaptainJackSparrow 5. raynpelikoneet 6. Paperscraps 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 10. hzflank 11. Koshi 13. justanothertownie 14. exarezee Yes, I think exarezee is town now based on the way he's been behaving regarding the lynch. I'm null on those without colors. Oats- He has been questioning people all game. Feels town to me. Vivax - Weirdly thinks I'm scum for calling him out on flip-flopping (which he admits to doing). Doesn't explain why. Filter feels town though. clarity - Makes case on me. Pushes it hard. Drops it when he sees I'm responding well. Totes town. CJS - Raged out of game based on understandable circumstances. Was asking some good questions. Probably town. rayn - Was totes town until 4 pages ago. Switched from scum on Paper to town on Paper and scum on Koshi. Doesn't make much sense considering Paper popped in defending himself with 5 unconvincing posts. paper - about to be lynched. Buddying with koshi and malongo. is the counter wagon to my initial lynch candidate of XRZ. malongo - scum for buddying. hz wagon is just a way to push off votes from paper to someone else. vayne - filter feels town. havent looked into him much. stutters - suddenly pops in to vote me. totes scum. hzflank - feeling town, but could change based on the paper flip. koshi - buddying. see malongo. jat - afk practically the whole game. he act ually probably should be null, but i have so many better scum reads that this guy is probably town. exarzee - recent posting is extremely pro-town. I thought he was scum at first, but im having to reconsider. | ||
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Scum is probably some combination of JAT/hzflank/exarezee and possibly rayn. I highly doubt vivax and rayn are on the same team, but I can't decide which one is scum. Vivax's unvote looks like scum trying to cause a no lynch, but I highly doubt scum would want to draw so much attention to themselves unless they had a back-up plan. Vivax's filter also feels really town to me aside from the part where he votes me for finding him suspicious. Null rayne's play is consistent with his town meta. He's been all over the place, much like me, and switches his reads on the fly. I don't like his reads and I think they are scummy, but his behavior doesn't seem like something scum would pull. Null-slightly scum hzflank has been pressured by koshi and malongo quite a bit and has chosen to sit in the sidelines for the majority of this game. I'm going to filter dive him and see if there's something I missed. I'm currently looking at him very closely. Leaning scum exarezee had a very townie approach to the lynch and stayed with his reads the entire game. Although much of his early game posting was scummy, I think he has redeemed himself with his behavior somewhat. However, with the flip, I'm going to have to look at him in detail. I'm not willing to clear him yet because the flip does incriminate him a little bit. Null-slightly scum JAT had a very suspicious delurk timing today. I can't help but feel he's laughing his ass off while vote out a townie, only to pop into the thread as soon as night begins to make himself look townie. Scum | ||
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On July 29 2013 12:03 Oatsmaster wrote: FT, get off your tunnel of exarezee. If no one agrees with you, are you super town genius or wrong? also Rayn plays the same scum or town. I'm not tunneling him. I don't even have him as confirmed scum like I used to. I just think the flip incriminates him because he was the instigator of the lynch. Are you saying he's 100% town? Doubtful. | ||
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On July 29 2013 15:43 Oatsmaster wrote: The flip makes him even townier. If exarezee flips scum, I will be incredibly blown away. What's your view on ryan? Also my analysis of your play after you found the scum slip is accurate or not? I just posted my thoughts about rayn in my previous post. The analysis is accurate because I am town but I don't think that's a very good way to confirm people. Maybe I wouldn't make that mistake as scum, I don't know. I'm inclined to think that I could make the same mistake as scum. | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:35 Vivax wrote: Hzflank, if I had the ability to vig stutters right now, would you agree on it? I know you aren't asking me, but this sounds like a great idea. Stutters has been scummy all game and his play isn't improving. His posts around the lynch worry me greatly. | ||
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Second quote was referring to if Paper flipped town. Two completely different scenarios. | ||
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On July 30 2013 06:51 Vivax wrote: OKAY TOFU. I fell for the usual scumslip bias. Can you explain something to me nontheless? What about the Koshi part did you find worthy of explanation since Rayn seems to have reached the same conclusion as you? Sure, rayn had a scum read on Koshi pre-flip when he was "99% sure Paper was town". Therefore, his read on Koshi should not have changed based on the flip, right? I didn't see any post in particular that warranted such a drastic shift from rayn so I'm asking if anyone can procure the post that changed his mind. | ||
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What are your top scum reads right now? | ||
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hzflank, I can get aboard a rayn lynch. His actions are extremely out of place. His reads are flying all over the place and don't any logical sense. It feels like he's trying to attack everyone a little bit to establish himself as abrasive and therefore town. I don't like it at all. I am leaning slightly scum on both JAT and stutters, especially after stutter's jumbled case on me. I'll have to filter dive to be sure, though. | ||
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On July 30 2013 07:39 Vivax wrote: Explain what happened between those read posts of yours. + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2013 08:48 FirmTofu wrote: My reads. I don't have much time, but I'll expand on these in my next post if there's still time. Player List: 1. Oatsmaster 2. Vivax 3. Clarity_nl 4. MCaptainJackSparrow 5. raynpelikoneet 6. Paperscraps 7. Malongo 8. VayneAuthority 9. Stutters695 10. hzflank 11. Koshi 13. justanothertownie 14. exarezee Yes, I think exarezee is town now based on the way he's been behaving regarding the lynch. I'm null on those without colors. On July 29 2013 11:28 FirmTofu wrote: I don't know what do think of the whole rayn/vivax/koshi trifecta. Koshi is probably town though. Scum is probably some combination of JAT/hzflank/exarezee and possibly rayn. I highly doubt vivax and rayn are on the same team, but I can't decide which one is scum. Vivax's unvote looks like scum trying to cause a no lynch, but I highly doubt scum would want to draw so much attention to themselves unless they had a back-up plan. Vivax's filter also feels really town to me aside from the part where he votes me for finding him suspicious. Null rayne's play is consistent with his town meta. He's been all over the place, much like me, and switches his reads on the fly. I don't like his reads and I think they are scummy, but his behavior doesn't seem like something scum would pull. Null-slightly scum hzflank has been pressured by koshi and malongo quite a bit and has chosen to sit in the sidelines for the majority of this game. I'm going to filter dive him and see if there's something I missed. I'm currently looking at him very closely. Leaning scum exarezee had a very townie approach to the lynch and stayed with his reads the entire game. Although much of his early game posting was scummy, I think he has redeemed himself with his behavior somewhat. However, with the flip, I'm going to have to look at him in detail. I'm not willing to clear him yet because the flip does incriminate him a little bit. Null-slightly scum JAT had a very suspicious delurk timing today. I can't help but feel he's laughing his ass off while vote out a townie, only to pop into the thread as soon as night begins to make himself look townie. Scum The flip? The first post were my reads assuming Paper was scum. The second post was a reevaluated list of reads based on the Paper town flip. | ||
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Rayn - Scum Stutters - Scum Vivax - Null Exarezee - Null-leaning scum JAT - Scum hzflank - Null | ||
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Stutters is still scum to me. His actions during the flip are unforgivable and his case against me isn't even really a case at all. | ||
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##Vote: Malongo | ||
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##Unvote | ||
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On July 30 2013 09:49 justanothertownie wrote: Dude, think about that for a minute. If I was scum - why would I jump on this claim? I would know he is lying (if Malongo is town). How can you honestly say this and accuse hz and I when we did the EXACT SAME THING? Holy fuck, if you aren't scum I don't know what the fuck to believe anymore... ##Vote: justanothertownie | ||
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This is what JAT says the moment when Vayne reveals that his cop claim is fake. On July 30 2013 09:47 justanothertownie wrote: Man that is sad. It made so much sense. I will still post the post on hz/tofu tomorrow. Then, when people accuse JAT of a scummy response to the claim, this is how he defends himself. On July 30 2013 09:49 justanothertownie wrote: Dude, think about that for a minute. If I was scum - why would I jump on this claim? I would know he is lying (if Malongo is town). Do you see what's wrong with this? On July 30 2013 09:35 hzflank wrote: ##Vote:Malongo On July 30 2013 09:30 FirmTofu wrote: For now, ##Vote: Malongo BOTH hzflank and I did EXACTLY what he says makes HIM look town. Yet he still thinks we are scum and he is town. 100% scumslip. | ||
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I will sign a legally binding fucking contract. "If JAT flips town, FirmTofu must allow himself to be lynched on Day 3" [Insert FirmTofu's signature here] | ||
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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZnIDAiO.png) The empty space represents how serious I am about this. | ||
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On July 30 2013 11:08 hzflank wrote: Tofu, the truth is that JAT flipping red does not actually make you town. We will still really have to look into you on day 3. I need sleep. Really really I need sleep. It was an amusing couple of hours. Well, obviously. I never said it would. | ||
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It's called ADAPTING TO NEW INFORMATION. | ||
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Sicilian: Initially I thought DrH was mafia, then I thought VE was mafia. Upon the flip, this was my 100% new scumlist. On July 19 2013 07:30 FirmTofu wrote: I'm going to post my scumreads. I'll decide later if I want to post my null reads. I probably won't post my town reads. Proposed Scum: slOosh kholly layabout Malongo I'm going to start with slOosh because he is the person that holds this proposed scumteam together. Most of my analysis will focus on the concrete information obtained from the last few hours of Day 1 regarding votes. slOosh: slOosh never bothered to defend himself when he was faced with an imminent lynch. Many people came to his defense(me included), with little reasoning to justify his survival. slOosh is a borderline lurker and all he has ever done this game is defend himself. There is absolutely no scumhunting in his filter, just see for yourself. kholly: I think kholly was a significant part of the reason why VE got lynched. By unvoting and voting repeatedly, he confused everyone who was trying to figure out the vote count. He was the only person to waffle between a MZ lynch and VE lynch, indicating that he was apathetic between them. To top it all off, kholly also happens to have a terrible list of proposed scum in: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=14#267 He never pushes his reads either. If he truly believed these people were scum, as his filter indicates, why didn't he ever try to get them lynched? layabout: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=14#266 Doesn't think we should share who we pm. Sounds like he is in favor of withholding information. Wants to kill Vayne because he doesn't use pms. Terrible reasoning. As I mentioned before, Vayne is stating an opinion that he expressed during pre-game. Why should that be alignment-indicative at all? Defends Malongo, attacks VE http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=19#364 Says he wants to lynch Vivax, but never follows up http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=19#379 Overall goal seems to be to keep slOosh alive. I think that if slOosh flips mafia, this guy should be our #1 target. Malongo: Malongo is inexorably linked to each one of these guys. I have a feeling that because VE tried to attack Malongo, scum decided VE needed to die. All of the above players ganged up on VE in order to push attention away from Malongo. When push came to shove and VE claimed, these guys decided they should hop on another town wagon to keep slOosh alive. They see Mr. Wiggles voting Mz and decide that he would be an easy target to justify a lynch on. Note that NONE of these players ever gave a good reason why they thought slOosh was innocent. They barely even talked about slOosh. Why did they vote MZ instead of slOosh if they could never provide a legitimate reason why slOosh wasn't mafia? Consider that voting slOosh would guarantee VE's survival, whereas a vote on MZ was not likely to go through. They would have to be very certain of slOosh's alignment in order to adequately justify voting for MZ, considering the situation. If they actually wanted to save VE, they would have voted slOosh. Why didn't they? If slOosh is in fact mafia, this indicates that they are avoiding interacting with their teammates to prevent links being formed between each other. I think the most critical person to lynch in Day 2 is slOosh. With his alignment, we get a plethora of information about numerous people and the chances of him flipping scum are quite high. Nuclear Winter: Initially, I had a Vayne/Jampidampi scum team On July 10 2013 08:47 FirmTofu wrote: FirmTofu's Suspicion Meter™ FirmTofu's patented suspicion meter is guaranteed to find scum or your money back! Just read carefully and vote accordingly and you will never be disappointed! Target: jampidampi Here we have jampidampi's first post. Let's first establish some context. jampidampi's first post is on page 21. A townie at this point should be looking for people who are actively scummy. He should be actively scumhunting. Instead, we see jampidampi trying to quickly establish town cred by accusing a player(me) who hasn't really contributed to the thread. Sure, it isn't scummy to draw attention to me, but it is scummy to believe that I am the best target to lynch. This play falls more in line with the presumption that jampidampi is scum. Scum jampidampi should be trying to "pretend" he's scumhunting by popping in and accusing lurkers while actually barely contributing at all. Suspicion: +10 jampidampi's filter continues along this same line of thought for quite some time. He continues to avoid causing waves by questioning lurkers who are unlikely to respond to his accusations. Suspicion: +20 He does redeem himself however, by saying that Meapak(confirmed town) should be saved. We have to remember that this does not exonerate jampidampi by any means. A scum jampidampi would already know Meapak is town and because Meapak is set to be nuked, he would want to let everyone know that he thinks Meapak is town to establish some town cred. It is tough to say one way or the other, so I consider this quote to be a null read. Suspicion: +0 The Damning Evidence: We all know that rayn didn't launch the nuke. How could he? He was VT. jampidampi seems to know this. All of his statements indicate that he already knows that rayn didn't launch the nuke and is trying to discredit rayn. If jampidampi knew that rayn didn't launch the nuke, he must have known who DID. Therefore, jampidampi could either be the townie that launched the nuke OR he could be on the scumteam that launched the nuke. Scenario 1: jampidampi=town If jampidampi was town and he truly believed that rayn lied about launching the nuke, why didn't he pursue rayn as a lynch target? All he did was try and discredit him! Scenario 2: jampidampi=town This seems to be the most logical conclusion, assuming that jampidampi already knew that rayn didn't launch the nuke. Therefore, if you believe that jampidampi knew rayn didn't launch the nuke, the most logical approach would be to assume that jampidampi is scum. Suspicion: +50 Suspicion Meter Report: 80 Suggested Course of Action: Lynch Target I believe that jampidampi targeted Meapak with the nuke secretly. Once rayn claimed he had launched the nuke, scum jampidampi decided he could discredit him to get free town cred After all, he knew MZ was town and he knew rayn was lying. He knew that, eventually, rayn would cave in to his pressure and be caught lying, placing rayn in a difficult position. When, jampi was killed, I completely 180'd on my reads. On July 12 2013 07:54 FirmTofu wrote: Voting Analysis: OriginalName (11): austinmcc, Dandel Ion (8): strongandbig, Meapak_Ziphh, jampidampi (12): MajuGarzett (3): Day 1: OriginalName vs Dandel Ion We know the alignments of both people. We can infer that scum would probably not want to be bussing on day 1, when it is not absolutely necessary. Therefore, the people on the Dandel wagon are extremely likely to be town and the people on the ON wagon are probably around an even split between town and scum. The scummiest people on the ON wagon are those who pushed it to save Dandel from death. That includes me, but because I know I am town, I will exclude myself from this analysis. Remember, the deciding votes are especially important. In my opinion, these are are people coming off as scummy from the ON lynch (from most scummy to least): ghost_403/Koshi Alakaslam gumshoe Onegu geript Chezinu austinmcc Alakaslam is a funny one. He initially hopped on the Dandel lynch when he thought it was inevitable. Then, when it looked like ON was picking up steam, he hopped on that lynch. Finally, when the lynch was imminent, he jumped over to Vayne to appear like he had nothing to do with the mislynch. It feels like he knew what the flip would be beforehand. Day 2: This day is a bit harder to analyze. We know that Maju is somewhat more likely to be scum because of the flip but we can't be certain. People coming off as scummy from the jampi lynch (from most scummy to least): Onegu Alakaslam ghost_403/Koshi geript (gumshoe for not voting) These are basically the people that couldn't decide one way or another until the lynch was already decided. They just jumped onto the wagon with the most votes and hoped that no one would care. This signifies apathy and is somewhat suggestive that these players are trying to more concerned about staying in the town's "good books" as long as possible instead of scumhunting. I no longer think Vayne or Ace are scum. I would post the Bluelightz game as well, but we're not allowed to post ongoing games. I change my reads ALL THE TIME as town. This behavior should make me feel town to you, not the other way around. | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are already giving yourself an out before the flip so you can call who the fuck you want scum before, as it doesn´t mean shit after the flip. If you are already thinking about the reads after flip, you are not trying to lynch scum, because you already know the guy is going to flip town. Why do you think about how your reads change if you lynch town? You should be lynching scum. Read again. My reads only changed after the flip. The timeline is as follows: 1) I posted a list of reads because I thought I was going to be lynched. These reads were based on the assumption that PS would flip mafia. 2) PS flipped town 3) THEN, I changed my reads to reflect the new information. | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:36 FirmTofu wrote: rayn either has not read my posts or is deliberately misrepresenting me. This is awful play, rayn. You aren't this bad. Him and Stutters. | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:37 exarezee wrote: @Tofu Here is the problem with your argument. You can't say I change my reads all the time as town in games a,b,c -> I am changing my reads all the time this game, thus I am town. I don't know if you change your reads all the time as scum or not. I assume players will want to emulate town as scum. Thus, you should be changing your reads all the time as scum too. Thus your argument just cannot be made. Totally agree. My point is that rayn is using this as a way to get people to think I'm scummy. I'm pointing out that I've done this plenty of games when I was town, so it is definitely NOT a scumtell. My question to you is, "Why is rayn deliberately misrepresenting me?" | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, it´s the attitude you had at the lynch. Someone asked you "what if PS flips town". You reply "that makes this and that different". You have clearly thought about the "what if"-scenario before the flip. Why did you not just say "your question is stupid because Paper is gonna flip red" as he is your scumread. Your reads after the flip are nothing like you quoted in NWM and Sicilian. They are wishy washy, like "this is how he plays as town, i don´t know what to make of it, so null - leaning scum". Wtf? Also your read on Koshi goes from top 1 scumread to town in 2 hours without no reasoning at all. That´s also fishy and you have still not explained that. So I'm not even allowed to think about the "what-if" scenario before the flip? What the fuck is wrong with you this game? I think about what-ifs as town ALL THE TIME. See nuclear where I addressed Xatalos' theory that Maju was scum and jampi and vayne were town. Did you expect me to ignore Koshi's question? Does that make me town? What exactly would a town person do in my situation? | ||
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On July 31 2013 02:47 justanothertownie wrote: Yeah, FT... please use your brain (if you are scum you are excused). I didn't scumslip. This post is beyond scummy, holy fuck. What's up with you and scummy parentheticals? Why did you feel the need to say that? Inherent guilt, anyone? You ADMITTED that you made a mistake. On July 30 2013 10:14 justanothertownie wrote: Wow rayne now I'm convinced. Tofu you are right that wasn't thought through very well. Why would you ADMIT as town? | ||
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He was briefly scum on PS, but as soon as that wagon started gaining steam, he switched to Koshi. Watch him switch off Koshi once this doomed wagon fails. | ||
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On July 31 2013 03:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I´m done talking to you because you are scum. You still have not explained yourself. Wasting time defending myself when I'm not in danger of a lynch is a waste of my fucking time and would just derail the thread and serve no purpose. Your points against me are a complete misrepresentation and any rational town member who has read my filter should be able to see that. You're scum. I'll defend myself if a townie thinks I'm scum. | ||
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On July 31 2013 03:20 hzflank wrote: Figured it out I think. He was RBed because in his game when a doctor saves someone both parties are notified by pm. Scum could not possily aim for Vivax without RBing Clarity, because if Clarity was Doc he was always going to target Vivax. If Vivax had pushed Clarity too hard on day 2 then Clarity could of dropped a breadcrumb to let him know that he saved him. I can see that happening. Clarity did say that Vivax was town even though Vivax was attacking him. I can see how that might get scum to think Clarity was a doc that would have protected vivax. Still, it's a hypothetical explanation for scum motivation. In other news, you are really reminding me of your conspiracy theory in our newbie game. I guess you're town after all. | ||
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On July 31 2013 06:53 Stutters695 wrote: Start by saving yourself. Why am I town now to you? You never explained that drastic change. You're scum to me. Where did I say you're town? | ||
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Alright, I've gotta catch a bus. I'm not done with a few people but as soon as I'm back home, I'll finish up. This is what I have so far. This stuff is straight out of the notes I've been compiling all game so some of it might be outdated. These profiles are by no means done. I'm just posting it because everyone pretty much knows where I stand on everything thus far and the more detailed analysis we get in this game, the better. + Show Spoiler [Oats] + Oats has a lot of posts where he pokes and prods various people for information. On July 27 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote: We should lynch the lurker with the least posts. Koshi is clearly not one of them. Clearly. So Paperscraps, why is Day 1 hard to get solid reads as opposed to other days? On July 27 2013 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck your rum. I assume you dont want to lynch lurkers then CJS. Why not? Do you think scum will not lurk at all? On July 27 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: What trap? Like what trap are you talking about? Do you like lurkers in town? CJS, I think that at least 1 or 2 scum will be labeled as a lurker and with only probably 3-4 town, its a much smaller pool to look at as opposed to all 14 people. On July 27 2013 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynching a lurker is awesome. Have you never seen lurkers flip scum? So are you definetely not going to lynch a lurker then, why is lynching a lurker bad? Makes a case on JAT. On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: yup justanothertownie dude is scum. Look at his first post. justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. extreme nitpicking here, clearly paperscraps was using generalization and notice that justanothertownie just throws shit on him without explain how or why its scummy. Like pointing out supposed bad posts without explain why. scumtell. Ok look at his thoughts on CJS, I assume he is leaning null scummy. In his very next post commenting on CJS post, his view drastically changes. looks like he wants to sheep CJS, off this horrific accusations without anything to back them up with. contradictions and shit, way over generalization. And it makes justanormaltownie want to sheep him? I dont buy it, justanormaltownie wants to support this set of lynches/lynch and see if I could possibly be mislynched. ##vote: justanormaltownie Doesn't look particularly alignment indicative, but seems to be calling him out on newbie mistakes that town and scum could both make. On July 28 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: CJS is totally town. Town dont care how they look so they play around right. Scum care how they look so they dont. And therefore because they dont play around, they tend to pick out joking posts as scummy, one part because without context, its scummy so any easy reason, and another part is that they just dont see the joke. So why would scum vote so carelessly early game? He knows that exarezee is reletively active at that point and probably wont get lynched so why put yourself in the spotlight that way. Random votes like that are strong towntells and you not seeing it and insisting you are right is scummy. Papers is in no way contradicting himself, he says lynch lurkers sure, but if he has a strong scum read on a non lurker, lynch that dude first. HOW IN THE FUCKING WORLD IS THAT A CONTRADICTION? pulling shit out of your ass to make your point here. About your 180 on CJS. "i have to agree with you" Is that not sheeping? You havent provided any of your own reasons why me or Vayne are scum, but you have scumreads on us because of that one LOUSY FUCKING POST that CJS posted. What made you so convinced that CJS was not scum from that post justanothertownie? Another tunnel-ish post by Oats. Starting to feel town. + Show Spoiler [Clarity] + The case he made on me. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. I don't think scum would be the first to form a case on anyone. It draws too much attention and isn't necessary early in the game. On July 28 2013 02:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I mean, I find the thing FirmTofu just did kinda hard to fake. Like, I guess if you're superscum it's like a mindgame thing, but if that were the case why did he seem so scummy in the first 12 hours. ##Unvote Am actually gonna be gone for a couple of hours but shall return later, look forward to hearing from Malongo. Unvotes after reading my response to the case and the "townslip" that makes me look town. I don't think scum would drop a case this easily. If Clarity was scum, I'd expect him to tunnel me a little longer. + Show Spoiler [CJS] + Most of CJS' early posting was Pirates roleplay. I'm ignoring most of that. On July 27 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: My vote still stands, and I believe that it is the correct one for this situation. Oatsmaster is acting like scum. He is refusing to give us any decent information whatsoever, just mucking up the thread with sarcastic one-liners and not giving us any insight on his opinions or anything. He is the perfect example of scum trying to blend in and be in the conversation, yet his words hold no meaning and are merely just filler. If you take them out, his filter is left with: And that, my friends, is not someone I want to give rum to. This post looks like something town would say. Calling someone out for trying to blend in. I disagree with the conclusion, but I think the move is townie. On July 27 2013 23:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Then why do you not vote for FirmTofu? You just said that you think they are both scum and that you want to vote for them, but you don't think paperscraps is as scummy as FirmTofu. So your vote should be clear. Why is it not clear to you then? Calls out hzflank on his misplaced intentions. I REALLY like this post. CJS is looking for scum motivation here. Looks like active scumhunting. On July 27 2013 23:42 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: You said that you think at least one of them as scum. So that would mean that you are trying to figure out who is scummier? I bolded two sentences in your post which contradict each other. You would rather vote paperscraps first, but you think FirmTofu is scummier. Am I missing something? Again, calls people our for their misplaced intentions. Very town move. On July 28 2013 01:11 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Right now, I'm leaning towards you being scum. I'm trying to figure out whether Vayne is stupid or scum, and I'm leaning towards stupid. I'd also like to point out that a lot of people have not posted to a satisfactory level, and any one of them could be scum lurking in the shadows. We have quite a ways to go before anyone dies, so a lot of things can change. Read on Vayne slightly changes based on a short exchange between them. This shows he is adapting based on new information. + Show Spoiler [rayn] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [Malongo] + On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote: Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 9. Stutters695 In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster 4. IMCaptainJackSparrow 10. hzflank 14. exarezee Everyone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: The think about starting the day lynching a lurker ise c to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank Id be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). I've played with town Malongo a few times and he NEVER does this type of stuff. Can't tell if his meta is changing or he is scum trying to look pro-town. The list by activity is utterly useless. The case on hzflank is meager, but it does establish his stance on the lynch. On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote: This is hzflank on Paper: How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to you This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw? Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote. How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper This case is a lot better and appears near the lynch. The lie he caught hzflank in is especially interesting. More importantly, this establishes Malongo as someone who was AGAINST the Paper lynch but FOR the hzflank lynch. If Paper flips town, Malongo looks good. If Paper flips scum, this could be a possible teammate. On July 29 2013 22:39 Malongo wrote: hz is top of tops to me. Next to him active lurkers like JAT and VA should be put in line asap. I read a lot of inconsistency in Vivax and I found it odd that you are/were pushing so hard on Koshi who is town from my perspective. but neither of those things look alligment indicative to me. Post-lynch consistency On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote: If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. This is an odd response. Why didn't he ask vigi to hit Vayne? After all, if he knows Vayne is lying, shouldn't he assume he is scum? On July 31 2013 00:20 Malongo wrote: Because i am green townie and in this position I have little to no chance to know what is happening behind the scenes. My real initial guess was "player x contacted VA and claimed a positive check". VA has no other chance but to call me out behind a lie. I think all the time VA is blue because of his posting... so if I ask a hit on VA and goes on is a lot worse than a hit on me. This is really weird. Malongo thinks pms are allowed? lol wtf? What a conspiracy theory. Probably town at this point, but has some really weird posts. + Show Spoiler [Vayne] + Starts off with a bunch of stupid joke posts trying to look scummy? Really weird play. On July 29 2013 06:16 VayneAuthority wrote: ##unvote ##vote:vivax playing like he does as scum. Long winded light on content posts, trying to get people mislynched for trivial things, and readjusting course when it doesn't work. If he's not scum I will need to re-assess my thoughts on his play. Meta argument by Vayne. Flimsy justification. Don't really like this post at all. On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! Now that we know that this was a fakeclaim, I just don't see scum pulling this kind of move. On July 30 2013 09:49 VayneAuthority wrote: to get some concrete reads, I have been barely reading the thread since it was just a bunch of useless stuff. I added in my own useless reads. Time to start playing for real This feels exactly like something town Vayne would do/say. He was an asshole like this in Nuclear Winter and he was town in that game. Feels town here too. + Show Spoiler [Stutters] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [hzflank] + On July 27 2013 17:21 hzflank wrote: First impressions: I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps Makes a case on Paper pretty early in the game. It has some decent points. Feels like it's coming from town. On July 27 2013 17:57 hzflank wrote: That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. This is a good post. It follows up on his scum read and clarifies his position on a few issues. On July 27 2013 19:44 hzflank wrote: I am not going to defend the points you have raised against Tofu as that is his job and not mine. I do not like the fact that you start your case on Tofu with an attack on me based on the timing of my post. If I happen to be at my computer then 7 minutes is more than enough time to read your post, read Tofu's filter, consider it and make my own short post. After my initial two reads of the thread I was aware of a post from Tofu that I thought was scummy. It was this post: I didn't like this at all. It looks like he is worried about being associated with me. Why? Only scum should be afraid of associations. Town just dismisses them as impossible because they know they are town. On July 27 2013 20:19 hzflank wrote: The association between Tofu and I. There is no good reason to clutter your case on Tofu with shit against me unless you think there may be an association. The only time I (as town) have ever talked shit about one person in a case against another person is when I thought that they were both scum. Again, he brings up this "association" by posting. Seems rather silly to be so worried about something so trivial. On July 27 2013 21:20 hzflank wrote: No. It would of changed everything if you had posted your reasons for thinking that Tofu is scum before you asked for other people's opinions. It is scummy to test the waters before you actually post a case. Me defending Tofu makes it harder for town to get a read on Tofu based on his own defence. Therefore, when writing a case the ideal scenario is for the person to defend the case themselves before other people comment too much on it. In this case that was not possible due to time zones, but by discounting my reasons for thinking Tofu is town as you gave the reasons as to why Tofu is scum you made it more likely that I would defend Tofu. That is scummy. On second thoughts, your case being less likely to attract votes is not a scum tell on you. Why did you suggest a wagon on Tofu before you actually posted the reasons for it? This post is interesting. He says he knows he shouldn't be defending me, so he's not going to. However, all of his last few posts have been soft-defenses of me mainly because Clarity soft-associated us with each other. I don't like hzflank's response to this situation at all. On July 27 2013 23:24 hzflank wrote: But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. These questions to exarezee are making me feel townish on hz again. He's asking what's important. "Why are you waffling on two people you find scummy. Why not choose one and stick with it?" Paraphrased, obviously. On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote: Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. I really liked this post. Looks like he's proactively stating his stance on the lynch situation and why he thinks pushing multiple wagons at the same time is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Koshi] + On July 29 2013 00:17 Koshi wrote: ##vote : hzflank I will put my vote on the person that is actively posting and I find the most scummy. Reasons: 1) Disagree on Paper 2) Posting habit is equal to a previous game with hzflank. Such a good scumplayer, got killed by SK that game because he looked the most town with a lot of people left. This is a respect vote if you like. I am checking in every so many minutes for questions. A very early vote on hzflank. Pretty flimsy case, but like Malongo, it establishes his motivation for his choice around lynchtime. On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote: My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank On July 29 2013 01:19 Koshi wrote: People Koshi wants to lynch 1. hzflank 2. Stutters 3. VA People Koshi can agree upon: 4.Malongo People Koshi won't lynch ever: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I am REALLY hating these lists by Koshi. They aren't helping town and it looks like he is just trying to come off as prot-own without actually contributing. On July 29 2013 08:07 Koshi wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Paperscraps Does this near lynchtime because not enough people want to lynch hzflank. He says he prefers lynch to no-lynch. On July 29 2013 09:26 Koshi wrote: We could have had that if we knew that Paper was 99% town. Enough people knew paper was town in the end, we could have ignored the tunnelers, but with majority lynch, their might have been too many people disliking the no lynch. Maybe even me. Nha, removing the vote was terrible Vivax. Truly terrible. But meh, you will prove you aren't scum. I don't like this in light of Vivax flipping town. It looks like Koshi might have had known Vivax's alignment pre-death? I don't know why a scum Koshi would kill Vivax though. On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote: So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time. 1) Koshi and Paper are scum 2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. Koshi brings up a good point here. Hzflank's reads of Paper and Koshi are incompatible when paired together. However, he may have thought they were scum independently of one another. On July 30 2013 02:01 Koshi wrote: HZFLANK If you have read the pages around 59-61 you will see that that hzflank is defending a lot of the flak he is getting by saying that he was only 50% sure about Paper being scum and that he didn't have any better reads on another player, and that he felt it was his duty as town to push the wagon he believed the most in. Anybody that followed the thread yesterday knows that hzflank was pretty stuck on Paper and that a small miracle had to happen for him to change his vote. I could have been that miracle but I am not even going to discuss how strange that is after all the nullreads I got from hz this game. I would like to put your focus on how other wagons or people that didn't believe Paper was scum were treated, in the spoilers below you have exchanges with XRZ and Oats. But a lot of you had interactions with hzflank on why he was thinking Paper was the best read. Did you back then believed it was a 50% read of him? Come on... + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 00:02 hzflank wrote: I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote: Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town. Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. Now these 2 quotes are a few of many attempts by hzflank (and XRZ is guilty of this as well) to control the thread with their scumreads. It's funny how they even say "we should only have 1 wagon because scum wants 2 town wagons on day 1" with XRZ countering that at least 1 of FT and Paper is scum so that these are perfect wagons... (little secret: FT looks town like hell for a FT Day 1 and especially his behavior during lynch) But Koshi you should not make associations like that, right? Ok ok. Let's keep this case focused on hzflank. (just remember while you read Vivax his case) I will repeat again that this behaviour of hzflank resembles a game I recently played with him. Please take into considering that I am telling the truth here without me been able to verify that. Some of the things that you can verify is that hz is a high volume poster, he has a lot of posts and scum that is able to post a shitton is very hard to lynch, extremely hard, unless they screw up. Which hz did: Remember that hzflank is a high volume poster. He posts a lot and that is why in general it is almost impossible to lynch these guys. But what is hzflask his defense on this misstep? He says that he isn't scum because if he was scum he would not have replied to me. THIS is bullshit. Believe me. This is bullshit and you should not believe it. hzflank replied to my post (that wasn't directed at him btw but more at rayn and Vivax trying to change votes to FT) in a way that you should see as a scared scum response. This is why, and there are a few replies of hzflank that he posted in defense that make what I type here true, go look them up: (I rewrote the points I make here to make it easier to understand than before) But as scum? THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN A SCUMBRAIN!!! + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2013 21:00 hzflank wrote: I believed that Koshi and/or Paper might be scum. Obviously I did not have a 100% read on either of you. I was trying to work out why town-Koshi would switch his vote to Paper so easily. My conclusion was that it was because you thought that Paper was town and that it would help your case against me. I was wrong though and unfortunately I was not thinking clearly enough. That is actually a better reason for scum-Koshi to vote for Paper than for town-Koshi to. It is easier to say that in hindsight though, now that I know that Paper was town. A scum player would not even need to try to work out why Koshi was voting for Paper. A scum player would just go with it and settle for lynching a townie. Conclusion: Lynch, shoot and kill this guy. Burn his body afterwards. Case on hz is okay, but is based on speculation. Not really convinced about hzflank. + Show Spoiler [JAT] + See: scumslip + Show Spoiler [XRZ] + Still working on this While I'm gone, let me know what you guys think about these players. Whether you agree/disagree and why. | ||
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On July 31 2013 07:53 Koshi wrote: Everybody will probably want to know what I think about hzflank hzflank is still scum for me. After his excellent posting today I cannot shake the feeling he is scum. If you would compare is posting today with that of yesterday there is also a difference. Today he is way more open with his reads on multiple people. Yesterday there was a lot more secrecy I would say. The veteran claim is a pretty good calculated risk. After the night where a lot of people asked for vig shots there was no response, even if there would be a vig there is a chance that the vig does not shoot because he doesn't feel like it is worth the shot (given how hz made that vet claim) on top of that people would probably have pointed out that the rules were different than in the op. Now the risk lied in my only in another vet coming out and claim that he was vet. But if there is only 1 kp each night the chances on a vet are low? Also with a roleblocker on scum their is a bigger chance on a doc/cop combo? All this is not just mathematical and don't proof shit. I don't know. I still think hz is scum but I can promise you I will not make this thread in a clusterfuck anymore and will not tunnel hz at all. Why would his "excellent posting" make you think he's scum? | ||
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On July 31 2013 08:02 justanothertownie wrote: Come on man. At least put a bit of effort into this. If you avoid giving real reasons besides the so called scumslip would you mind explaining why exactly my mistake is only possible from a scum point of view? I really want to hear how you try to justify that. Oh I will. I'm not done with your case yet. I deliberately didn't post my scum cases yet because I knew I wouldn't have enough time to address them fully before I left for the bus. Since everyone knows where I stand on my scum cases, I figured I'd post information I've gathered on everyone else first. | ||
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On July 31 2013 08:04 Koshi wrote: It doesn't, it makes me feel he is town and I am being horrible. The only problem with it is that he was not posting like this yesterday. But today his posting was pro town all the way. I don't know man. You can't say he is posting excellently and still says he's scum. He's scummy for improving his posting? What the fuck are you saying? | ||
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On July 31 2013 08:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: Let me get this straight. You have had time to make town "cases" but not had time to make your scum cases? How is that... what... i don´t even... ASDJASJDASDAMSD rofl. just rofl. Learn to respect time constraints. Suppose I wrote up everything and prioritized my scum cases. I would have to struggle to respond to all of your posts defending yourself while I was on the bus. It just wouldn't be feasible. | ||
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On July 31 2013 08:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: I do respect them. You are the one who should learn that. If you don´t have enough time the priority is: - Tell people why someone is mafia, and should be lynched. You are doing the opposite.. I have time. I just don't have it for an hour. Can you shut up and wait one hour? Thanks. | ||
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Really sorry guys, it took a lot longer than I expected. Here's rayn. I'll do the rest soon. + Show Spoiler [rayn] + On July 29 2013 04:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oatsmaster - Has about 25% of the posts in this game. When Oats posts shitton he is town. Is also making sense. Vivax - Has good posts and trying to figre out stuff. On the other hand i feel like something is not right here. I have no idea what it is but i think Vivax is worth looking more closely into. Clarity_nl - Definitely yown. I like his thought process on like everything. Is pushing his reads and doing that hard. IMCaptainJackSparrow - Town, pretty sure of it. His exchange with exarezee was interesting and he came out of it much better looking. I think he should let Oats go and find a mafia target instead. It's not so hard to see Oats is town. Paperscraps - Posting feel genuine and he had good points until his last post. This one: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=26#501 , where he says he should not explain why his read on Oats is what it is. That to me seems like he has a read on Oats that he is not able to explain. Bad. Malongo - Purely based on his first post and my experience with him in other games. VayneAuthority - I think Vayne's posting implies he is town. I don't like him not giving out his reads if he thinks someone is mafia, but that's how he rolls on D1 as town. Definitely not worth lynching. Stutters695 - I really liked Stutters' post about Vivax early on. I dunno what makes him think CJS is mafia, and i'm waiting on his case on paperscraps. hzflank - I had a big big red read on hzflank before this: "I did start to prepare a case on Oats yesterday but I cancelled it shortly after starting. As I was writing it I became less sure that Oats was scum and I did not want to post a case that I did not believe in myself. That is fairly normal for me as I seem to be good at convincing myself that someone is not scum." That basically proves that hzflank is town, that is so incredibly genuine. Koshi - Says people should not pressure FT, wrong. People who are scummy should be pressured. His vote on hzflank is horrible, it's clear that he doesn't even think the dude is scum. Other than that he has not done anything that can be considered scumhunting. FirmTofu - Early on says that "we should talk about the game instead of general bullshit", which he has been talking about in his every post before that. Later on he corrects himself that he was talking about RPing, gifs etc. That's as useless as lurker-lynch talk. tsk tsk. CJS posts btw are totally not fluff, they were at time amongst the best in the game. His stance on JAT is fucking weird and his exarezee case accuses him for same things he says about JAT. He is throwing shit left and right but not trying to figure out who are scum with exarezee, who is he voting at. He is not questioning him at all but soft-accusing other people. justanothertownie - I don't think he has said anything useful. His vote on Paper is pretty shitty because paper has at least expressed some reads, which JAT has not done at all. Only thing he has done is to get into a shitfest with Oats, which is not useful thing to do for a townie. exarezee - He has posted a fuckton and he is new. I don't think there is a chance that he is mafia based purely on that. The cases / votes on him are shit, none of those reasons make him mafia. Vivax, who do you actually think is mafia? Where is your head at. I was assuming you to take a town leading status and drive the discussion into important matters. You are staying in the sidelines and not doing much. Why is that? Koshi, all you have done is posted useless lists. Who do you think is scum and why? What is your stance on FirmTofu? Do you still think he is town? FirmTofu, wanna lynch Koshi? Or can you give me reasons to not lynch him? Stutters, you wanna make that case on Paper? ##Vote: FirmTofu Definitely scummiest person so far. His case on exarezee is bad. All the points on him are assumptions that cannot be defended against other than "no, you are wrong". There is no concrete evidence. Then he calls him wishy-washy as exarezee does not have a clear stance on someone. Look at what he says about JAT after that. "I can move my vote on him if you make a good enough case". Right... Standard rayn. Calls me out as scum every game on Day 1. Why am I not surprised... His other reads don't tell me much about rayn yet. Good to acknowledge where he stood if he flips scum. Like Clarity said, a lot of it is just thread sentiment. Both town and scum are guilty of trying to emulate thread sentiment. On July 29 2013 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote: Also FT, why is your stance on JAT so wishy-washy? Pursuing his best scum read. rayn is generally aggressive like this as scum and town so I take this behavior as non-alignment indicative. I'm not going to quote everything, but a good 2-3 pages of his filter from this point are just tunneling me. Town can fall victim to this. I did in NWM and DrH did in Sicilian. It is not all that uncommon. However, in this case in particular, rayn is tunneling me with terrible reasoning. I will crop out the arguments that he makes and address them directly. Early on says that "we should talk about the game instead of general bullshit", which he has been talking about in his every post before that. Later on he corrects himself that he was talking about RPing, gifs etc. That's as useless as lurker-lynch talk. tsk tsk. CJS posts btw are totally not fluff, they were at time amongst the best in the game. His stance on JAT is fucking weird and his exarezee case accuses him for same things he says about JAT. He is throwing shit left and right but not trying to figure out who are scum with exarezee, who is he voting at. He is not questioning him at all but soft-accusing other people. He's accusing me for: 1) Telling Vayne to stop posting fluff My Response: How is this alignment indicative? I'm telling people to cut out the bullshit so we can play the game. That is not alignment indicative in any way. 2) He disagrees on my opinion on CJS' focus on roleplay My Response: While you may think CJS' posts at the time were good, you can't call me scum for disliking the RP aspect of it. Your disagreement is not grounds for calling me scummy. 3) He disagree with my stance on JAT, calling it weird. My Response: Again, weird behavior that you disagree with is not necessarily alignment indicative. If you think there is some scum motivation for what I did, then feel free to point it out. Otherwise, this isn't a valid argument. 4) I am "throwing shit left and right" without trying to figure out who is scum with exarezee. My Response: This is completely false. I pressured Vivax for his flip-flopping stance on lurker lynches and I questioned various people to try and find out who might be buddying with XRZ. 5) I'm not questioning XRZ at all and instead am soft-accusing other people. My Response: You just contradicted yourself in the same post. If I'm soft-accusing other people, doesn't that mean I'm looking for scum with XRZ? What exactly is scummy to you? The fact that I'm looking for scum with XRZ or the fact that I'm not questioning XRZ enough. You need to decide which one makes me look scummy instead of accusing me of both contradictory behaviors. Definitely scummiest person so far. His case on exarezee is bad. All the points on him are assumptions that cannot be defended against other than "no, you are wrong". There is no concrete evidence. Then he calls him wishy-washy as exarezee does not have a clear stance on someone. Look at what he says about JAT after that. "I can move my vote on him if you make a good enough case". Right... 1) My case on XRZ is bad. My Response: Again, your disagreement with my case doesn't make me scum. Worst case, I'm wrong. How is my "bad" case alignment indicative. Why would scum open themselves up to attacks by posting a lengthy case on someone like that? Scum have incentive to lie low, not to do what I did. 2) I call my scum read "wishy-washy" My Response: Yes, if I think someone is scum, I'm going to try and throw all the dirt I have and pursue that lynch with fervor. That's what I do as town. He was wishy-washy. He wasn't choosing a target. I called him out on that. In fact, you do exactly what you are accusing me of a few posts later! On July 29 2013 05:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: rofl. Tofu is wishy-washy as fuck regarding Paper. Maybe they are both scum. :D Talk about hypocrisy. The whole day so far, rayn has been tunneling me. He warms up to a Paper lynch in as evidenced by this post. On July 29 2013 06:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: If you had looked into any recent game Malongo has played you would see that this is characteristic to his town play. In other words, the stuff you are pointing out does not make him mafia. You clearly do not want to lynch FT. Go look at JAT/Paper please. Koshi, what do you think of this: This feels like he wants to control the flow of the thread. He makes a few more posts asking people to look into these three people. Why does he specifically want these 3 targets? Really feels like scum trying to set up favorable alternatives to a lynch that would not lynch their own. See the following posts. On July 29 2013 06:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: It's time to start consolidating people. Anyone with no really good case should vote for FT/JAT/Paper and tell why the target is a best lynch. Do not discuss useless stuff, otherwise we'll end up with a no-lynch which is a big no no. He's telling numerous people EXACTLY who he wants them to look into thereby directing the course of the lynch. Suddenly, he votes Koshi out of the blue. On July 29 2013 07:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: To be more precise. You don't want your top scumread to contribute towards your other scumread. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Koshi That's enough bullshit. Look how easily he changes his reads. He obviously still thinks I'm very scummy and Koshi has no one voting for him. Why would town rayn vote Koshi instead of me? I mean, did this post by rayn seriously change his mind so drastically that Koshi is now more scummy than anyone in the entire game? Then, he says the following... On July 29 2013 07:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think we should kill Koshi or Paper. Maybe FT is town after all. So now he thinks I'm town, and Koshi and/or Paper are scum. What a turnaround. What exactly changed his position? The posts in between this post and the last one are negligible. Then, he posts this. On July 29 2013 07:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am not so sure about that any more tbh. I don't like the fact that either one of them has not been here for a very long time. On Paper i really didn't like his proposition to vig me or Stutters. I have clearly been unable to post and that is not alignment indicative. Stutters has good posts imo. If he thinks one of us is mafia, then vote for us instead of someone else. I think at that time his vote on JAT was just a "throwaway vote". The only thing that's fishy overall is that people are willing to discuss Paper but not JAT. What do you think about Koshi and his latest contributions? Bolded for emphasis. On July 29 2013 07:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: JAT is probably town btw. Why would he say these two things in quick succession? JAT is town even though no one wants to lynch him? When you yourself said that no one is talking about him? How is that a reasonable conclusion to arrive at as town? Why are you deliberately trying to clear JAT? On July 29 2013 07:59 raynpelikoneet wrote: Can you guys just vote for Koshi please? Now he wants Koshi lynched more than anyone. Remember, the current highest wagon was on PS. He initially said both PS and Koshi would be fine lynches, but now he's saying Koshi is the only scum here. On July 29 2013 08:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: Paperscraps has not claimed any role to lure out a cc / save him if he is mafia. That's incredibly bad scumplay to not claim a PR in a closed setup game. He has to be town. Paper got back and posted in a non-scum manner. Why am i not allowed to change my opinion? This is so wrong i don't even know what to say. To defend PS, he says PS would be bad scum to not RC. Therefore, he isn't scum. Why does he exclude the possibly that PS could be bad scum? After all, he is a newbie. This looks like an excuse by rayn to avoid being associated with a flip that he knows will flip town. On July 29 2013 08:30 raynpelikoneet wrote: Koshi, FT, i dunno who else are scum. Now he's back on me. Nothing has happened in between that should cause him to change his reads with such volatility. On July 29 2013 08:57 raynpelikoneet wrote: No, that makes no sense. If i knew Paper better and could tell 100% he is town we could no-lynch. But i can't. ##Unvote: ##Vote: Paperscraps Fuck you all. Chance of success 5%. At the last minute, he switches on to PS so that a lynch can go through. Obviously, he knows it will reflect poorly on him if he is the one to cause the no-lynch, so he decides to voice his objections while bandwagoning a lynch he knows will flip town. After the flip, no one suspects rayn because he was right all along. Night 1 Rayn engages in a heated battle with Vivax about why Vivax unvoted. Then, surprisingly, reaches a sort of agreed-upon truce to "assume" the other one is town. Conveniently, rayn looks surprisingly OK after Vivax flips town. I think rayn made the truce so that he could kill him without taking any blame for it. He walks away and can just say he thought Vivax was town the whole time. No harm, no foul. Day 2 After Vivax dies, rayn pushes me again. More tunneling. This is an easy way to play the game for scum because no one expects them to look at anyone else. I'm a bit tired of quoting his filter now, so I might finish this up later. | ||
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What do you guys think of a rayn lynch? | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:14 exarezee wrote: u serious? is there a reason NOT to vote malongo is my question? Can you explain why you want to lynch him other than the fact that he martyred himself? | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:33 hzflank wrote: Something for you to think about. I touched on this in my recent post about Clarity. This is something everyone should of already thought of, but it would have been bad for me to post about this early day 2 as I wanted to wait and see reactions. Rayn thinks that Vayne, Clarity and I are absolutely confirmed town. If the 4 of us are in fact town then scum would know this. Scum cannot leave that situation as it is. Rayn and I also have Stutters as town, which if true makes the situation even worse for scum. Therefore, if Rayn is town he should have been looking unfavourably on people who were trying to make the supposedly confirmed town people distrust each other. This does not mean that the 5 people mentioned here are in fact all town. It means that Rayn is so sure that the other 4 are town that he cannot help but think that people who are messing with that are scummy (this might not even be conscious thought). So if you want to get a better read on Rayn then I suggest you ask yourself: is he playing as town-Rayn should considering that he has 4 solid town reads? Since when does he think you guys are confirmed town? He's been flip-flopping on his reads every three pages. Just a few pages ago he was questioning Clarity. Before Day started, he had you as scum(my).We need to start holding him accountable for these drastic and completely unjustifiable read changes. Town rayn does not play this way. He is more methodical and you can clearly see his train of thought. Additionaly, you are considering hypotheticals that aren't necessarily particularly likely. What makes you think all of those people are town in the first place? It's a pretty huge leap of faith to take considering they haven't really been in the forefront of discussion until just recently. | ||
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On July 31 2013 17:38 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm having issues with this. Tofu you're calling me town for not tunneling you for too long and then you're calling Oats town for continuing to tunnel? You're ignoring the possibility of a doctor, something scum wouldnt do. I guess they really think I am the doc, or they wouldnt have gone for Vivax. Oh, Clarity, I forgot to answer this bit. Oats is town for the same reasons as you. He tunneled for a bit and then dropped off the case. I just forgot to post the post where he dropped off and started pursuing others. Personally, I think you are a bit more likely to flip town because you did what I would do. You pressured someone you thought was moderately scummy(me) and then backed off when you saw a decent defense and a "scumslip townslip". I would have expected scum to continue tunneling. Scum don't like admitting they were wrong. | ||
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On August 01 2013 02:52 hzflank wrote: Rayn has had Clarity solid town since the post where Clarity explained why the RB made him town. Rayn has had me town since the Vet claim and Vayne town since the cop claim. Vayne has has Stutters town since early day 2. It does not matter whether these town reads are correct or not. The important thing is whether Rayn actually thinks that they are correct. You are the one that really wants to lynch him so you should be considering his town reads when you read his day 2 play. I'm not really sure about rayn, but I agree with his town reads for the most part. My point is, his town reads don't make him town. His scum reads make him scum. His flip-flopping makes him scum. These factors far outweigh any town reads he has that he can easily change at a moment's notice. He's already shown that he can go from a town read on someone to a scum read based on very little evidence. | ||
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On August 01 2013 03:01 FirmTofu wrote: I'm not really sure about vayne, but I agree with his town reads for the most part. My point is, his town reads don't make him town. His scum reads make him scum. His flip-flopping makes him scum. These factors far outweigh any town reads he has that he can easily change at a moment's notice. He's already shown that he can go from a town read on someone to a scum read based on very little evidence. EBWOP: see bold | ||
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Most of my case on you is the scum slip you made. There are a few more posts that I didn't like, but ultimately it all hinges on the scum slip. If people aren't willing to accept the premise that it was indeed a scum slip, then my case is essentially useless. I was pretty burned out after I made the case on rayn so I'm procrastinating on yours. I was hoping people would be more eager to lynch rayn because of my case. Unfortunately, this town has gone full-retard while I was sleeping. | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:49 justanothertownie wrote: So the "scumslip" is your only reason? Then it wouldn't be to much of a task to explain why exactly you think it is a scum slip in the first place like you promised before, is it? I already do that numerous times. Try reading my filter. You even admitted that you made a mistake. | ||
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On August 01 2013 04:51 justanothertownie wrote: SINCE WHEN IS MAKING A MISTAKE ALIGNMENT INDICATIVE?!?! Your mistake is a scum slip because you were deliberately calling yourself town for the same behavior that your strongest scum reads were doing. Town doesn't make that kind of mistake, only scum does. I realize that you don't enjoy being caught, but there's no need to raise your voice. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:01 Clarity_nl wrote: Unless you think he's bussing his entire team at this point, not really. Well his theory hinges on the scumteam NOT bussing anyone. I don't think any scum team would be that stupid. | ||
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On August 01 2013 05:04 hzflank wrote: So you problem is that i think the other team is more likely to be scum than your team? Do you think that you are more scummy than Rayn then? Also, my vote is subject to change. If you have to lynch me to see what the scum team is, then so be it. I was saying that you are on my "team" right now, so if you were to think the scum team was Cora/me/Koshi, then you would have to add yourself to that list by your own logic. | ||
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I am VT. For all of you who are still deciding, I will answer any questions you might have. For all of those voting me, explain to me why I would post all of my reads for all of town to scrutinize. Explain to me why I have been pursuing my scumreads and justifying them appropriately. Ask yourself if this is scum behavior. Ask yourself if scum would want to behave like this. | ||
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##Vote: Malongo | ||
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Of course. I would prefer stutters though. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:06 raynpelikoneet wrote: Because all of your reads took a 180 after D1 flip. You have not justified your scumreads. Yes, you would do this as scum. I've already demonstrated that my reads take a 180 on flips even when I am town. In Sicilian, my reads flipped from VE and DrH to Sloosh, layabout, and SnB. In Nuclear Winter, my reads flipped from jampidampi and vayne to alakaslam, onegu, and a few other lurkers. If you are town, you are bringing us to LYLO. jsyk | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: Corazon is also confirmed scum for not saying anything, not changing his vote, but still flinging shit on me for nothing. Rayn, can we agree to lynch Cora? I am willing to roll with this if you are down. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:10 Clarity_nl wrote: Firmtofu's claim is bad. Makes no sense to claim vt as town. What if we magically switch to a (from your perspective) scum. Now it's easier for them to bluehunt. If I'm going to die, I'm going to claim. It's the last defense I have available so I'm going to make use of it. | ||
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Scum wouldn't attack exarezee and then back off based on new information. Scum wouldn't waste time making long cases on people when they have no incentive to do so. Scum wouldn't be looking for scum slips. Scum wouldn't do this: On July 31 2013 07:51 FirmTofu wrote: FT's Player Profiles Alright, I've gotta catch a bus. I'm not done with a few people but as soon as I'm back home, I'll finish up. This is what I have so far. This stuff is straight out of the notes I've been compiling all game so some of it might be outdated. These profiles are by no means done. I'm just posting it because everyone pretty much knows where I stand on everything thus far and the more detailed analysis we get in this game, the better. + Show Spoiler [Oats] + Oats has a lot of posts where he pokes and prods various people for information. On July 27 2013 10:01 Oatsmaster wrote: We should lynch the lurker with the least posts. Koshi is clearly not one of them. Clearly. So Paperscraps, why is Day 1 hard to get solid reads as opposed to other days? On July 27 2013 10:43 Oatsmaster wrote: fuck your rum. I assume you dont want to lynch lurkers then CJS. Why not? Do you think scum will not lurk at all? On July 27 2013 11:23 Oatsmaster wrote: What trap? Like what trap are you talking about? Do you like lurkers in town? CJS, I think that at least 1 or 2 scum will be labeled as a lurker and with only probably 3-4 town, its a much smaller pool to look at as opposed to all 14 people. On July 27 2013 11:28 Oatsmaster wrote: Lynching a lurker is awesome. Have you never seen lurkers flip scum? So are you definetely not going to lynch a lurker then, why is lynching a lurker bad? Makes a case on JAT. On July 28 2013 00:09 Oatsmaster wrote: yup justanothertownie dude is scum. Look at his first post. justanothertownie thinks its not a joke. But he doesnt explain why scum would do it, summerizes Paperscraps actions and just says its scummy. Scum take jokes seriously cause they play the game seriously. extreme nitpicking here, clearly paperscraps was using generalization and notice that justanothertownie just throws shit on him without explain how or why its scummy. Like pointing out supposed bad posts without explain why. scumtell. Ok look at his thoughts on CJS, I assume he is leaning null scummy. In his very next post commenting on CJS post, his view drastically changes. looks like he wants to sheep CJS, off this horrific accusations without anything to back them up with. contradictions and shit, way over generalization. And it makes justanormaltownie want to sheep him? I dont buy it, justanormaltownie wants to support this set of lynches/lynch and see if I could possibly be mislynched. ##vote: justanormaltownie Doesn't look particularly alignment indicative, but seems to be calling him out on newbie mistakes that town and scum could both make. On July 28 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote: CJS is totally town. Town dont care how they look so they play around right. Scum care how they look so they dont. And therefore because they dont play around, they tend to pick out joking posts as scummy, one part because without context, its scummy so any easy reason, and another part is that they just dont see the joke. So why would scum vote so carelessly early game? He knows that exarezee is reletively active at that point and probably wont get lynched so why put yourself in the spotlight that way. Random votes like that are strong towntells and you not seeing it and insisting you are right is scummy. Papers is in no way contradicting himself, he says lynch lurkers sure, but if he has a strong scum read on a non lurker, lynch that dude first. HOW IN THE FUCKING WORLD IS THAT A CONTRADICTION? pulling shit out of your ass to make your point here. About your 180 on CJS. "i have to agree with you" Is that not sheeping? You havent provided any of your own reasons why me or Vayne are scum, but you have scumreads on us because of that one LOUSY FUCKING POST that CJS posted. What made you so convinced that CJS was not scum from that post justanothertownie? Another tunnel-ish post by Oats. Starting to feel town. + Show Spoiler [Clarity] + The case he made on me. On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote: I'm not quite sure what that means. "looks a lot more town in his filter than he does in the thread"? Could you explain? Anyway, disagree completely with your conclusion which you reached a full 7 minutes after I asked (excluding when you actually read my post and made your own) _______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy! Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point. Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy: + Show Spoiler + On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote: Okay, I'm back on a computer. This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another. On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote: To all of you that are out there... Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not? On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote: Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if 1) Half the town is lurking or 2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches. Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing. Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum: "I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!" This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met. Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself. But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts: Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded. He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why? Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads. This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum. FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now. I don't think scum would be the first to form a case on anyone. It draws too much attention and isn't necessary early in the game. On July 28 2013 02:40 Clarity_nl wrote: I mean, I find the thing FirmTofu just did kinda hard to fake. Like, I guess if you're superscum it's like a mindgame thing, but if that were the case why did he seem so scummy in the first 12 hours. ##Unvote Am actually gonna be gone for a couple of hours but shall return later, look forward to hearing from Malongo. Unvotes after reading my response to the case and the "townslip" that makes me look town. I don't think scum would drop a case this easily. If Clarity was scum, I'd expect him to tunnel me a little longer. + Show Spoiler [CJS] + Most of CJS' early posting was Pirates roleplay. I'm ignoring most of that. On July 27 2013 23:08 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: My vote still stands, and I believe that it is the correct one for this situation. Oatsmaster is acting like scum. He is refusing to give us any decent information whatsoever, just mucking up the thread with sarcastic one-liners and not giving us any insight on his opinions or anything. He is the perfect example of scum trying to blend in and be in the conversation, yet his words hold no meaning and are merely just filler. If you take them out, his filter is left with: And that, my friends, is not someone I want to give rum to. This post looks like something town would say. Calling someone out for trying to blend in. I disagree with the conclusion, but I think the move is townie. On July 27 2013 23:35 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Then why do you not vote for FirmTofu? You just said that you think they are both scum and that you want to vote for them, but you don't think paperscraps is as scummy as FirmTofu. So your vote should be clear. Why is it not clear to you then? Calls out hzflank on his misplaced intentions. I REALLY like this post. CJS is looking for scum motivation here. Looks like active scumhunting. On July 27 2013 23:42 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: You said that you think at least one of them as scum. So that would mean that you are trying to figure out who is scummier? I bolded two sentences in your post which contradict each other. You would rather vote paperscraps first, but you think FirmTofu is scummier. Am I missing something? Again, calls people our for their misplaced intentions. Very town move. On July 28 2013 01:11 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: Right now, I'm leaning towards you being scum. I'm trying to figure out whether Vayne is stupid or scum, and I'm leaning towards stupid. I'd also like to point out that a lot of people have not posted to a satisfactory level, and any one of them could be scum lurking in the shadows. We have quite a ways to go before anyone dies, so a lot of things can change. Read on Vayne slightly changes based on a short exchange between them. This shows he is adapting based on new information. + Show Spoiler [rayn] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [Malongo] + On July 28 2013 14:29 Malongo wrote: Sparrow pfff another smurf. So far in the inactive players I see 5. raynpelikoneet 7. Malongo 9. Stutters695 In the hyper-activity side I see: 1. Oatsmaster 4. IMCaptainJackSparrow 10. hzflank 14. exarezee Everyone else is meh-activity wise. So far my best pick is hzflank I really didnt like this post from hzflank: The think about starting the day lynching a lurker ise c to force the players to post and force the mafia to make mistakes. I rather start the day forcing lurkers to post than "looking for 2/3 wagons" earlier. Earlier wagons are more likely to be town (in my experience) and the lurker lynching stays aside. Trying to get early wagons is also a good way to close the fence early wich help the mafia more than the town. His vote so far on Paperscraps is really weak and when I read his filter I found it really reactive (or defensive as he put it). ##Vote: hzflank Id be happy to lynch CJS for no reason too ( I just hate attention-smurfs ). I've played with town Malongo a few times and he NEVER does this type of stuff. Can't tell if his meta is changing or he is scum trying to look pro-town. The list by activity is utterly useless. The case on hzflank is meager, but it does establish his stance on the lynch. On July 29 2013 06:44 Malongo wrote: This is hzflank on Paper: How can that be mafia if the game had just started? You expect something like a paper on who is mafia based on 10 pages of posts? guy addressed one by one each player and you get angry because he doesnt respond directly to you This is a lie as proof you can actually find the exchange that he actually answers you directly: So actually you are telling that you dont understand Paper so he is not town. See the logic flaw? Well actually his one sentence makes more sense to me than these case. He calls Vivax directly lurker because there was no reason behind his vote. How is that in any ways indicative of mafia? if something he liked your own way to be abrasive. What? most people look at Paper as null towards townie, I dont see anyone calling him town. What I am sure is your post is really forced towards Paper This case is a lot better and appears near the lynch. The lie he caught hzflank in is especially interesting. More importantly, this establishes Malongo as someone who was AGAINST the Paper lynch but FOR the hzflank lynch. If Paper flips town, Malongo looks good. If Paper flips scum, this could be a possible teammate. On July 29 2013 22:39 Malongo wrote: hz is top of tops to me. Next to him active lurkers like JAT and VA should be put in line asap. I read a lot of inconsistency in Vivax and I found it odd that you are/were pushing so hard on Koshi who is town from my perspective. but neither of those things look alligment indicative to me. Post-lynch consistency On July 30 2013 09:41 Malongo wrote: If there is no miller there is no chance in hell you are telling the truth. Vigi on me asap, clear the vigi you and me, im green. This is an odd response. Why didn't he ask vigi to hit Vayne? After all, if he knows Vayne is lying, shouldn't he assume he is scum? On July 31 2013 00:20 Malongo wrote: Because i am green townie and in this position I have little to no chance to know what is happening behind the scenes. My real initial guess was "player x contacted VA and claimed a positive check". VA has no other chance but to call me out behind a lie. I think all the time VA is blue because of his posting... so if I ask a hit on VA and goes on is a lot worse than a hit on me. This is really weird. Malongo thinks pms are allowed? lol wtf? What a conspiracy theory. Probably town at this point, but has some really weird posts. + Show Spoiler [Vayne] + Starts off with a bunch of stupid joke posts trying to look scummy? Really weird play. On July 29 2013 06:16 VayneAuthority wrote: ##unvote ##vote:vivax playing like he does as scum. Long winded light on content posts, trying to get people mislynched for trivial things, and readjusting course when it doesn't work. If he's not scum I will need to re-assess my thoughts on his play. Meta argument by Vayne. Flimsy justification. Don't really like this post at all. On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! Now that we know that this was a fakeclaim, I just don't see scum pulling this kind of move. On July 30 2013 09:49 VayneAuthority wrote: to get some concrete reads, I have been barely reading the thread since it was just a bunch of useless stuff. I added in my own useless reads. Time to start playing for real This feels exactly like something town Vayne would do/say. He was an asshole like this in Nuclear Winter and he was town in that game. Feels town here too. + Show Spoiler [Stutters] + Still working on this. + Show Spoiler [hzflank] + On July 27 2013 17:21 hzflank wrote: First impressions: I do not like how much discussion there has been about lurkers. The first post was palatable, but the fact that so many people decided to focus the conversation on it created an environment that benefits scum more than town. To talk about lurking policy properly would require a conversation about mafia-theory and philosophy, which is a conversation that allows scum to both hide easily and setup town-town wagons on day one. Paperscraps is the scummiest player to have posted so far. That does not mean that you should find a fence to sit on. There are many pro-town things that you could be doing on day 1 even if you have a hard time forming good scum reads. This post is so scummy, as it is just throwing mud for no good reason. I did not like this post by Tofu as I cannot tell whether he is actually prodding or looking for a soft target. The bolded part is what puts a scummy tone on the post. Exarzee is almost as town as anyone can be at this stage of the game. The only thing I did not like was: There are good town reasons for withholding a read for a few hours or until a particular person has posted, however the reason given above by Exarzee is not a good town reason. I am willing to let it slide due to some of his other posts being very town. This post by Rayn is not scummy, but I want to point it out because I do not think that anyone should be encouraged to sheep. Sheeping generally helps scum more than town. To finish, I liked the way that a lot of votes were thrown around early and I see benefit in continuing to do this, as it will provide extra information in the future. Since I think that Paperscraps is the scummiest player so far: ##vote: Paperscraps Makes a case on Paper pretty early in the game. It has some decent points. Feels like it's coming from town. On July 27 2013 17:57 hzflank wrote: That is not taking a stance. Taking a stance would be “I am going to vote for anyone who lurks”. Saying that you will vote for a lurker unless someone else is scummier and then going on to say that it is hard to get solid reads on day 1 is not taking a stance. I do not think that being afraid to say what to do with lurkers is a scum tell. I do think that attempting to mimic thread sentiment is a scum tell. This is a good post. It follows up on his scum read and clarifies his position on a few issues. On July 27 2013 19:44 hzflank wrote: I am not going to defend the points you have raised against Tofu as that is his job and not mine. I do not like the fact that you start your case on Tofu with an attack on me based on the timing of my post. If I happen to be at my computer then 7 minutes is more than enough time to read your post, read Tofu's filter, consider it and make my own short post. After my initial two reads of the thread I was aware of a post from Tofu that I thought was scummy. It was this post: I didn't like this at all. It looks like he is worried about being associated with me. Why? Only scum should be afraid of associations. Town just dismisses them as impossible because they know they are town. On July 27 2013 20:19 hzflank wrote: The association between Tofu and I. There is no good reason to clutter your case on Tofu with shit against me unless you think there may be an association. The only time I (as town) have ever talked shit about one person in a case against another person is when I thought that they were both scum. Again, he brings up this "association" by posting. Seems rather silly to be so worried about something so trivial. On July 27 2013 21:20 hzflank wrote: No. It would of changed everything if you had posted your reasons for thinking that Tofu is scum before you asked for other people's opinions. It is scummy to test the waters before you actually post a case. Me defending Tofu makes it harder for town to get a read on Tofu based on his own defence. Therefore, when writing a case the ideal scenario is for the person to defend the case themselves before other people comment too much on it. In this case that was not possible due to time zones, but by discounting my reasons for thinking Tofu is town as you gave the reasons as to why Tofu is scum you made it more likely that I would defend Tofu. That is scummy. On second thoughts, your case being less likely to attract votes is not a scum tell on you. Why did you suggest a wagon on Tofu before you actually posted the reasons for it? This post is interesting. He says he knows he shouldn't be defending me, so he's not going to. However, all of his last few posts have been soft-defenses of me mainly because Clarity soft-associated us with each other. I don't like hzflank's response to this situation at all. On July 27 2013 23:24 hzflank wrote: But which of them do you think is most likely scum? If I were scum I would love to see a town post that he would like the vote to be between a specific two people. So to me either your post was more useful to scum than to town, or you are scum. I am leaning towards the former, so please answer the question. These questions to exarezee are making me feel townish on hz again. He's asking what's important. "Why are you waffling on two people you find scummy. Why not choose one and stick with it?" Paraphrased, obviously. On July 27 2013 23:48 hzflank wrote: Because scum want two town wagons on day 1. Town only wants to find one scum as the chance of actually finding multiple scum on day 1 is very slim. If a scum member is under pressure and cannot deal with it alone then the simplest and easiest thing for the scum team to do is to ignore that person and secure two other lynch candidates. If town start saying that we want to lynch two specific people then it makes it too easy for scum to steer us into a mislynch without being noticed. If you think that they are both scum that is fine, but don't do anything resembling pushing for lynches on them both at the same time. I really liked this post. Looks like he's proactively stating his stance on the lynch situation and why he thinks pushing multiple wagons at the same time is scummy. + Show Spoiler [Koshi] + On July 29 2013 00:17 Koshi wrote: ##vote : hzflank I will put my vote on the person that is actively posting and I find the most scummy. Reasons: 1) Disagree on Paper 2) Posting habit is equal to a previous game with hzflank. Such a good scumplayer, got killed by SK that game because he looked the most town with a lot of people left. This is a respect vote if you like. I am checking in every so many minutes for questions. A very early vote on hzflank. Pretty flimsy case, but like Malongo, it establishes his motivation for his choice around lynchtime. On July 28 2013 23:33 Koshi wrote: My current lynchpool: raynpelikoneet Malongo VayneAuthority Stutters695 I have put ??? after these players but I can let them live another day: hzflank On July 29 2013 01:19 Koshi wrote: People Koshi wants to lynch 1. hzflank 2. Stutters 3. VA People Koshi can agree upon: 4.Malongo People Koshi won't lynch ever: 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 I am REALLY hating these lists by Koshi. They aren't helping town and it looks like he is just trying to come off as prot-own without actually contributing. On July 29 2013 08:07 Koshi wrote: ##unvote ##vote: Paperscraps Does this near lynchtime because not enough people want to lynch hzflank. He says he prefers lynch to no-lynch. On July 29 2013 09:26 Koshi wrote: We could have had that if we knew that Paper was 99% town. Enough people knew paper was town in the end, we could have ignored the tunnelers, but with majority lynch, their might have been too many people disliking the no lynch. Maybe even me. Nha, removing the vote was terrible Vivax. Truly terrible. But meh, you will prove you aren't scum. I don't like this in light of Vivax flipping town. It looks like Koshi might have had known Vivax's alignment pre-death? I don't know why a scum Koshi would kill Vivax though. On July 29 2013 20:28 Koshi wrote: So hz believes 2 complete different things at the same time. 1) Koshi and Paper are scum 2) Koshi is pushing paper lynch because Koshi thinks paper is town Which is impossible. And pretty close to impossible to think as a town player. Koshi brings up a good point here. Hzflank's reads of Paper and Koshi are incompatible when paired together. However, he may have thought they were scum independently of one another. On July 30 2013 02:01 Koshi wrote: HZFLANK If you have read the pages around 59-61 you will see that that hzflank is defending a lot of the flak he is getting by saying that he was only 50% sure about Paper being scum and that he didn't have any better reads on another player, and that he felt it was his duty as town to push the wagon he believed the most in. Anybody that followed the thread yesterday knows that hzflank was pretty stuck on Paper and that a small miracle had to happen for him to change his vote. I could have been that miracle but I am not even going to discuss how strange that is after all the nullreads I got from hz this game. I would like to put your focus on how other wagons or people that didn't believe Paper was scum were treated, in the spoilers below you have exchanges with XRZ and Oats. But a lot of you had interactions with hzflank on why he was thinking Paper was the best read. Did you back then believed it was a 50% read of him? Come on... + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 00:02 hzflank wrote: I think that Paper is scum. However, that read may possibly change (If I am given reason to change it), and if it does change then there is every possibility that they are both town. Their interactions with you in no way preclude them from both being town. + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 22:59 hzflank wrote: Lol Oats, so obvious. Oats and Paper both scum, FT and JAT both town. Vivax probably town. He thinks I am scum because I seemed to be soft defending JAT. Now these 2 quotes are a few of many attempts by hzflank (and XRZ is guilty of this as well) to control the thread with their scumreads. It's funny how they even say "we should only have 1 wagon because scum wants 2 town wagons on day 1" with XRZ countering that at least 1 of FT and Paper is scum so that these are perfect wagons... (little secret: FT looks town like hell for a FT Day 1 and especially his behavior during lynch) But Koshi you should not make associations like that, right? Ok ok. Let's keep this case focused on hzflank. (just remember while you read Vivax his case) I will repeat again that this behaviour of hzflank resembles a game I recently played with him. Please take into considering that I am telling the truth here without me been able to verify that. Some of the things that you can verify is that hz is a high volume poster, he has a lot of posts and scum that is able to post a shitton is very hard to lynch, extremely hard, unless they screw up. Which hz did: Remember that hzflank is a high volume poster. He posts a lot and that is why in general it is almost impossible to lynch these guys. But what is hzflask his defense on this misstep? He says that he isn't scum because if he was scum he would not have replied to me. THIS is bullshit. Believe me. This is bullshit and you should not believe it. hzflank replied to my post (that wasn't directed at him btw but more at rayn and Vivax trying to change votes to FT) in a way that you should see as a scared scum response. This is why, and there are a few replies of hzflank that he posted in defense that make what I type here true, go look them up: (I rewrote the points I make here to make it easier to understand than before) But as scum? THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN A SCUMBRAIN!!! + Show Spoiler + On July 29 2013 21:00 hzflank wrote: I believed that Koshi and/or Paper might be scum. Obviously I did not have a 100% read on either of you. I was trying to work out why town-Koshi would switch his vote to Paper so easily. My conclusion was that it was because you thought that Paper was town and that it would help your case against me. I was wrong though and unfortunately I was not thinking clearly enough. That is actually a better reason for scum-Koshi to vote for Paper than for town-Koshi to. It is easier to say that in hindsight though, now that I know that Paper was town. A scum player would not even need to try to work out why Koshi was voting for Paper. A scum player would just go with it and settle for lynching a townie. Conclusion: Lynch, shoot and kill this guy. Burn his body afterwards. Case on hz is okay, but is based on speculation. Not really convinced about hzflank. + Show Spoiler [JAT] + See: scumslip + Show Spoiler [XRZ] + Still working on this While I'm gone, let me know what you guys think about these players. Whether you agree/disagree and why. Scum wouldn't do this: On July 30 2013 10:57 FirmTofu wrote: I'm like 99.99999% sure JAT flips scum so if he doesn't I will give myself up to the lynch Gods for sacrifice. I will sign a legally binding fucking contract. "If JAT flips town, FirmTofu must allow himself to be lynched on Day 3" [Insert FirmTofu's signature here] | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:15 hzflank wrote: Sorry but there are too many town that are not actually trying to win. I wanted a Stutters or Cora lynch, but in the interest of winning the game I have to vote for you over Mal. How about you vote for stutters and we try to lynch him instead of me. If it catches steam, we are good. If it doesn't, you can always switch back to me. Sound like a plan? | ||
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##Unvote ##Vote: Stutters | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:23 Koshi wrote: So we need scum to buss each other. FT still up for that Cora lynch? Of course. | ||
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Why don't you fucking vote stutters or cora then? If you really gave a shit about the game and you thought I was town, you wouldn't be buddying hzflank without thinking for yourself. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:31 Koshi wrote: FT Could you vote yourself? For the sake of the game. You being VT and all. I'm pretty sure I can't because it's against the rules. I probably would, though. | ||
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Remember, I know I am VT, so convince me based on this assumption. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:38 hzflank wrote: If you do not vote for yourself then we get an extra mislynch. However, everyone will assume you are scum and the game will be put on hold for 72 hours, leaving us at a 5-4 LYLO instead of a 6-4 MYLO. Why would everyone assume I am scum? Aside from the fact that rayn thinks I'm scum, why should they revote me on Day 3? This particular bandwagon is just a panicky lynch that isn't based on anything in particular. I think I could sufficiently defend myself given more time and a rational argument. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: There has been rational arguments against you throughout the game, you have not defended yourself. Now die mafia dude. Read my case on you. I have defended myself there. | ||
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If you guys can at least promise and execute this, I will be happy. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:53 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why don´t you give us some good list of reads you can change after the flip like last time? This time you are far more likely to be lynched than on D1. I just did. I'm basically listing the whole scumteam and you know it. | ||
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On August 01 2013 07:56 Clarity_nl wrote: Least sure about rayn on that list if you flip green, btw. Please read my case on him. I think it's very conclusive. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:00 exarezee wrote: im way more sure that tofu is scum if koshimalongo are both scum though. we can get enough votes on malongo too. XRZ, do you want to lynch malongo? I will switch if you do. | ||
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##Vote: Malongo | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:03 Clarity_nl wrote: can we get a check for who's willing to switch to CJS at this point? I know I am. His behavior, regardless of tofu's alignment, is scummy Me, Koshi so far. I think hzflank could come around. Not sure who else though. | ||
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##Vote: IMCaptainJackSparrow Alrighty then. Let's try it. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: FT sheeps his scumread (me) on Cora (who is his townread). MAKES SENSE"!"""" FUFUFUFUFUFUFUFUFU! If I know I am town and Cora is the only other possible lynch, why wouldn't I vote him? Use your fucking brain. | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:18 exarezee wrote: ok guys. cant believe i have to do this. im detective. peeked malongo scum. i think rayn is town though lol. What the fuck, why didn't you say this earlier? ##Unvote ##Vote: Malongo | ||
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On August 01 2013 08:26 Malongo wrote: hello gentleman just made it home. How do I help town? Do I stay on me? Fuck you Malongo. | ||
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Let me break this down for you. You have been checked by a cop in XRZ and he has found you as[red]scum[/red. Care to defend yourself instead of being utterly fucking useless? | ||
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If Malongo flips scum, who is the most likely scum team? rayn soft-defended Malongo up until the XRZ claim. Koshi has been acting weird all day by buddying hz and just following thread sentiment without thinking for himself. Any thoughts about others? | ||
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I'm very exhausted with this game, so I'll be taking a long hiatus. I'll be back before night ends. | ||
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##vote: raynpelikoneet rayn is fakeclaiming cop. He probably killed vayne so he couldprove that his town check was correct. Hes been playing against us the entire game by throwing whit at everyone with one-liners and no reasoning to back it up. I cant believe we let him live this long. | ||
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On August 02 2013 13:05 exarezee wrote: well, if u have me 100% town, i'm telling u, clarity is 10000% town I agree clarity is town, but hes not as confirmed as you are imo. | ||
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In my opinion, the XRZ lynch gives us more information, but rayn is far more likely to flip scum based on his behavior throughout this game. @XRZ Why are you willing to lynch me even though the entire case on me rests on you being scum? | ||
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What exactly makes Clarity/CJS/Oats confirmed town if XRZ flips town? I didn't really follow that reasoning. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:41 hzflank wrote: Are you claiming Cop then? Because if you think that scum have an RB and all town has is a Vet then I have a bridge to sell you. I'm a VT, not a cop. Please, sell me the bridge. (I have no idea what that saying means) | ||
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Can we agree to a truce until I can get my bearings around how this new interaction with you and XRZ makes me feel about you? | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:48 hzflank wrote: Town has Vet and Cop. If Exar flips town then he was telling the truth about being roleblocked. Scum do not have a RBer and a GF as they would be imbalanced. Rayn has a green check on CJS. Clarity was roleblocked. Oats is not confirmed town, just a little bit more likely based on assumptions (Rayn said he was going to check Oats). Thank you hz, I appreciate it. If I understand you correctly, you are saying scum do not have an RBer and GF because both Clarity and XRZ are scum, yes? What if Clarity fakeclaimed that he was roleblocked and then XRZ actually got roleblocked? Is this not a possibility? | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:51 FirmTofu wrote: This would mean that Scum did not use their roleblocker N1. Hm, I guess this scenario is much less likely.Thank you hz, I appreciate it. If I understand you correctly, you are saying scum do not have an RBer and GF because both Clarity and XRZ are scum, yes? What if Clarity fakeclaimed that he was roleblocked and then XRZ actually got roleblocked? Is this not a possibility? | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: Your assumption is that i am mafia and XRZ is town. Do you really think mafia has a roleblocker in a game where they have nothing to roleblock as the only role for town would be a veteran? In addition to this, if we lynch exarezee and he some-fucking-how flips town, that clears: 1) Clarity because scum have a roleblocker, and roleblocking one of their own on N1 is beyond stupid. 2) Oats because he can´t be a godfather, and if he was mafia scum would not let me check him on N2. 3) Corazon because i have a green check on him. There is not a roleblocker + GF versus one cop, that´s impossible. Why can't Oats be GF? Why can't CJS be GF? | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: You can´t possibly think this because you think i am mafia! If i am mafia there is no cop, does roleblocker + godfather make sense to you in a setup where there is nothing to roleblock or no cheks?!?!?!?!?!?!? Obviously, your theory relies on the assumption that you are town. Like I said, I'm willing to roll with that for now in order to ascertain XRZ's alignment. | ||
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On August 03 2013 04:59 hzflank wrote: If either of them are GF then scum should not have a roleblocker. If scum do not have a roleblocker then Clarity and XRZ lied about being roleblocked. So you are saying GF + Roleblocker would be unbalanced therefore it's impossible? Your whole argument hinges on setup speculation and implied balance? | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:06 hzflank wrote: Yep. Then again you are saying that Rayn might not be Cop so town only has a Vet while scum has a roleblocker. Again, I would like to stress that all of these questions are asked with the assumption that rayn is town. I'm trying to see where you're coming from hz. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:11 FirmTofu wrote: Are we playing with the assumption that there are no more town power roles alive right now? Other than the claimed ones, that is. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:13 hzflank wrote: Yes, absolutely. If we have another power role then some things change. Not everything changes, though. One last question. If there is a blue out there, not revealing his role, would it be in town's best interest to have him reveal? Consider all the possibilities. Hidden Doc/Cop/Vig/Vet Obviously, vig and vet are unlikely to be hidden, but I think a hidden doc or even a cop is still a possibility. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:18 hzflank wrote: It could only be a doctor. If it were a cop he would of claimed by now considering we have had 3 other cop claims. A vig would of shot by now and I am Vet. We cannot be 100% certain that there is no doctor, but we might as well play as if there is no doctor. If they need to claim then they will. I am satisfied with that answer. As for XRZ, I can see where you are coming from. I am willing to lynch him on the grounds that his Day 1 was terrible, but I think rayn's case on XRZ hinges too much on setup speculation. Consider this. Mafia have 3 goons and a RBer. Couldn't we have 0 cops, 1 vet, 1 doc, rest VT. Wouldn't it still be balanced? I tried speculating setup in NWM and it worked out very poorly for me. I'm not going to make that mistake again. If we are lynching XRZ today, I will vote him because of a bad Day 1 and for information. Nothing more, nothing less. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:25 Koshi wrote: XRZ his day 2 was horrible if he didn't have a red check on Malongo. He did nothing... I think his early Day 2 was good. In fact, it was mostly night 1 and early Day 2 that cleared him in my eyes. Then, when he made the cop claim, I didn't understand his behavior at all. The Malongo flip made me warm up to him again. | ||
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On August 03 2013 05:26 hzflank wrote: It's possible, but it is unlikely. Also, answer me this: VT-Exar gives out a guilty check on Malongo 30 mins before the deadline. What happens if Malongo flips green? We lynch XRZ. Ah, I see your point. Why would non-cop XRZ claim and kill someone if he wasn't 100% sure about the flip? In order for him to have known, he had to have been scum or cop. If he fakeclaimed, the only possibility is scum. Alright, I can see why XRZ is scum. ##Unvote ##Vote:exarezee | ||
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If XRZ flips scum, why would that make me scum? If anything, XRZ's claim saved Cora from a lynch, not me. I only had 2-3 votes on me when the claim took place. | ||
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This seems to be based purely on speculative associations and I see no reason to believe that this is even remotely likely. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:17 hzflank wrote: Why would scum-xrz possibly of fake-claimed cop when he did? If he is scum he would have to of had a reason, no? Unless you think he did it just to mess with us? There are two possible reasons 1) To get people off of CJS. 2) To make a big play by attempting to confirm (possibly) his entire team as town in the process. Yes, CJS is a good candidate, but not because he's related to Clarity. He's a good candidate because he's XRZ could've made the play to make him look town and probably another teammate as well. Sorry, I was more asking about how Clarity is scum, not CJS. | ||
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Aside from the potential roleblock fakeclaim, what dirt do you really have on Clarity? | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: FT why is Clarity scummy if XRZ flips town? I was thinking about his reaction to the XRZ claim. He immediately discredited it and professed a desire to vote XRZ instead of his check. This made think that they are not of the same alignment. Additionally, he wanted to vote the cop claim instead of the useless person who the check was attacking. Doesn't make much sense to lynch a possible cop over a possible VT. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:30 hzflank wrote: I have nothing on Clarity. We have a green check on CJS though, so he would be the godfather. It's process of elimination based on the setup. If you think that scum have a roleblocker and a GF then you better hope to see a doctor flip on the N3 nightkill. Which would mean scum have to shoot someone other than the cop. Sorry FT, but if Exar flips red D3 and Raun flips cop N3, then lynching you D4 gives the town the best chance of winning. Unless you can come of with some reason why scum-Exar claimed cop that does not involve saving you or CJS. I still fail to see how XRZ and I are connected in any way. You still haven't explained this to me. XRZ saved CJS. If he flips scum, you should wholeheartedly endorse a CJS lynch on Day 4. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:36 hzflank wrote: So the fact that Clarity claimed N1 roleblock and xrz claimed N2 roleblock means nothing? I think it is more likely that scum have a roleblocker than not. I think one of them is probably lying, but not both. Speculating on this is rather useless because either of them could be lying. | ||
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If XRZ flips town: I think it's probably JAT, Stutters, rayn/Clarity/Koshi. rayn could be lying about the cop claim, but I'm deferring to hz's best judgement on this. I have to agree that no cop is pretty unlikely so until another claim comes up, rayn could still be town. If XRZ flips scum: I think it's probably CJS, JAT, Koshi, maybe Stutters. | ||
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On August 03 2013 08:49 hzflank wrote: Tofu...you are missing things. If you think that Exar and CJS are both scum them Clarity 100000000% has to be the final scum. For those that missed it, thats 100000000%. Whatever, we can discuss that when the time comes. Not too worried about that read right now. | ||
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Hz, cjs, oats, and clarity are all town btw. Anyone tho thinks these ppl are scum has to pull out some crazy conspiracy theory to justify their position. Rayn is probably town. Like hz said, no cop is extremely unlikely. He's probably going to die tonight anyway, so there's no point discussing him right now. Of those who are left, JAT and stutters have to be mafia. There is no doubt in my mind about this. My vote will likely be on either of these two candidates for Day. | ||
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On August 05 2013 07:14 Koshi wrote: I always said you were town. ALWAYS. But I was on you because I also thought Maongo was town -_-. And we wanted a lynch... I know. I'm saying your behavior isn't making sense if you are scum. Phone posting sucks | ||
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On August 05 2013 07:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: So FirmTofu thinks Koshi is town because Koshi is defending FirmTofu. Same guy who saw through our "let´s all buddy each other" in the last game. No.. way... FirmTofu do you really think mafia does not defend town like that? Or that´s not a possibility? It's not that he's defending me. It's that he's defending me when I am the only person that is even remotely likely to be mislynched if the scum team is koshi/stutters/JAT. If he wants a mislynch, why would he be defending me right now? | ||
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I can see why they would leave a potential cop rayn alive, but I don't know why thy chose clarity over CJS and Oats, who are both practically universally confirmed town. I'm inclined to think that scum wanted to kill someone who had a majority of the scum team in his sights. What was clarity doing right that oats and cjs are doing wrong? | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:33 raynpelikoneet wrote: That´s a bunch of WIFOM and you should be telling us why Koshi/Stutters/JAT are mafia, and making them reveal their true colors if you are town. I don't think it's wifom. The scum team would be hooding a target that best complements their Day play. A kill that would be beneficial in securing a mislynch. I'm going to go through clarity's filter first. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:37 hzflank wrote: Tofu, Can you explain to me again why Oats is confirmed town? I mean it as a general thread sentiment. Oats is probably town if rayn is town. Rayn claims to not have been blocked on the night that he explicitly stated that he would chek oats. If you think rayn is town, it is only logical to assume oats is probably town. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: yeah and why is clarity confirmed town? I never said he was. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:41 hzflank wrote: But you think that Rayn might be scum, right? If Rayn is scum then why is Oats town? No, please read my previous posts. I think rayn is more likely to be town than mafia because no cop is extremely unlikely. Also, I never said those people were confirmed town to me, I said they were confirmed town to the thread. Translation; they are unlynchable. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:42 Koshi wrote: Rayn/Oats/JAT try to look into that FT. I am going to need all the help I can get. As much as I think you defending me makes you look townie, I cannot think of a single scumteam where you are not scum. The process of elimination leads me to believe that you must be scum. I will take a look at Oats, but unless there is another cop claim, I don't think rayn is mafia right now. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:46 IMCaptainJackSparrow wrote: So Oats and I aren't confirmed town to you? How come? Again, you people are misinterpreting what I'm saying. When I said you guys are confirmed town, I meant you were unlynchable. I have a town read on both you and oats. | ||
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On August 05 2013 09:49 raynpelikoneet wrote: So it´s day 4 and we have FirmTofu and Koshi who are both saying "practically everyone could be mafia". Sounds legit townie play so far! That is not what in saying at all. I'm saying stutters and JAT are scum. I'm saying the third scum could either be koshi or you. I'm leaning toward koshi because I cannot imagine that we have bastard hosts who put in at least a scum roleblocker and only one town power(hzflank). | ||
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On August 05 2013 10:16 Koshi wrote: Any chance we can lynch JAT over me? ##vote justanothertownie This is my lynch of choice, yes. ##Vote: justanothertownie | ||
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On August 05 2013 10:33 hzflank wrote: And Tofu saying that you are likely scum by process of elimination, but then sheeping your vote on JAT (his other scum read), without questioning you at all... Did that not change your read on Tofu? Not sure why you expect me to question koshi when I think JAT is far more likely to flip scum. I know practically everyone wants to lynch koshi, but JAT is a far batter lynch. | ||
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On August 05 2013 10:36 hzflank wrote: Tofu thinks that everyone else is unlynchable right? So if Tofu is town then the only way he can win is by lynching scum today but also distancing himself from all the scum in an attempt to keep himself alive until all the scum are lynched, or until someone else becomes lynchable. Koshi is currently under the most pressure. Tofu sheeps Koshi's vote without distancing himself from Koshi. How does town-Tofu intend to win the game? He is basically betting the entire game on Koshi being town. On the contrary, I am betting on JAT flipping scum. There is not a single scum team of mine that doesn't have JAT on it. My behavior towards Koshi is irrelevant. Also, you logic implies that you don't think Koshi and I are on the same scum team. I'm not sure what you're getting at. | ||
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On August 05 2013 10:51 hzflank wrote: What I am getting at: Koshi is likely to be lynched today. If you are going to get JAT lynched then you need to push hard. Even if JAT were to flip scum today then Koshi would still be under pressure day 5 and still have a chance at flipping scum. Therefore, you need to push hard on JAT independently of Koshi, just in case. What you just did was throw a vote on JAT immediately after Koshi did, with no one providing any reasoning. That says nothing about JAT but makes both Tofu and Koshi look like scum. You (Tofu) have been FoSing JAt for a very long time now but have done little to nothing in the way of actually getting him lynched. This is a fair point. The only reason I haven't made a case just yet is that I am on a train and have no computer available. I will definitely make a strong case against him in a couple of hours. | ||
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Posting Style: A laid-back, "Lynch anyone who suspects me" style of play. His first strong scumread was me and he gave no justification for it. It looks to me like he wants me dead for the sole reason that I think he's scum. OMGUS at its finest. He just sheeped general thread sentiment and casually prodded me when I wasn't making a case on him. I don't see the usual enthusiasm that is so characteristic of most townies. Almost all of his posts are focused on defending himself rather than pursuing lynches. All the posts where he asks people to explain why they think HE is scummy: On August 02 2013 06:46 justanothertownie wrote: I'm here. If this means you think I'm scummy clarity - I'm open to conversation about why you are wrong. On July 31 2013 04:31 justanothertownie wrote: What is it that you think is weird? On July 28 2013 02:20 justanothertownie wrote: So basically scum is between me and alle the lurkers according to koshi and oats. Do you really think that this is very likely? Would you mind explaining why i am on your lynch list koshi? Why do you think my posts are so bad? On July 28 2013 04:26 justanothertownie wrote: Well, my filter isn't exactly huge.... I would like to repeat my earlier request: Please explain yourself. You just stated I am scummy and provided absolutely no reasoning for that to be the case. Other than that you aren't scumhunting at all... On July 28 2013 22:58 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, so I will probably be here for the next 2 hours before I leave (there is a concert in my city which I definitely won't miss). I hope I will be back before the deadline but I can't 100% guarantee it. Vivax - would you mind explaining why you think I am scummy and why I am a good lynch today? You don't wan't to lynch me just because I'm a low profile player, do you? If you have any questions i will gladly answer them. Also, I really want to hear your reasoning for the read on Paper. On July 29 2013 07:57 justanothertownie wrote: I'm back and just caught up. Now I'm frustrated because I already started a post calling Vivax out for lying about my stance on oats and I have to see he corrected himself (nice one). As this is the only real point Vivax makes in order to get people to vote me that is not stolen from oats case (which is terrible) there is nothing more to say for me besides it really looks like Vivax just absolutely doesn't want Paper to be lynched. Why does he feel the need to defend himself every time someone accuses him? Why is he so afraid of dying? Stuff I Don't Like: + Show Spoiler + On July 28 2013 20:43 justanothertownie wrote: Yes, my read on you was justifiable at that point but where do you see a lot of posts that would indicate this? Sounds weird to me. I would love to lynch VA for his attitude towards the game but if he always plays like this then there is nothing about him that indicates any alignment. But I would like to know why Vayne thinks Oats voting Tofu is good? Also I'm still not content with Koshis explanation of his reads. So you actually don't have any scumread anymore besides the troll and the lurkers? For now I still think Paper is a good lynch. His reads do not impress me. What? Please explain this. I don't know if we read the posts of the same person... Yeah, that's because you both don't have any real scumreads.... or do you really think Vivax is scum? Or that I am? ##Vote: Paperscraps Quotes random parts of Paperscraps' post and asks him to explain. He doesn't specify what exactly he wants PS to explain, he just says, "explain". To me, this looks like a classic case of scum trying to pretend to be active and questioning without asking anything of actual substance. On July 31 2013 07:45 justanothertownie wrote: Interesting. Now you suddenly think I'm scummy without any new information? Suddenly you don't believe I'm new anymore and the posts you use to prove it were available to you way earlier when you actively defended me and said I'm town. WTF. Are you serious? That's the best you could come up with? And yes I'm aware of the fact I didn't follow through with my hz/tofu case. That's because it was not up to date anymore and I would have needed to add the new information gained by all the claims and reactions tonight. When I tried to put it together I started to become unsure and waited and since my conversation with hz earlier I'm seriously doubting my read on him. The case was a mix of hz/tofu with a lot of connection between them and if I doubt the hz part of it I can't justificate the whole case as it is. Therefore I didn't post it. Btw. like I said to oats before - do you want prove I'm new? I can give it to you easily. The first part of this post aims to ridicule someone for their case against them. JAT dodges the case without putting out any actual substantive defense. The second part of this post is an excuse made to justify the lack of follow-up on the case he promised to make. Bad all around. On August 01 2013 00:02 justanothertownie wrote: Ok, I read xrzs filter. I'm leaning town on him. Many things he say make sense. If he is scum he is hiding this really good. For now the best lynch is koshi in my eyes. ##Vote: Koshi I will be at a meeting from now on and not be able to follow the game or post. I will be back before the deadline (I hope several hours before). This post was made when the XRZ lynch was gaining a little bit of steam on Day 2. JAT supposedly had me pegged as scum during this time. He previously made a few arguments against Koshi, but nothing too significant. If he really thought I was scum, why didn't he vote me? Did he fear backlash? What exactly prompted him to vote Koshi instead of me? On August 02 2013 05:18 justanothertownie wrote: I'm not afraid of dying because there are several much better targets to kill for scum not because I'm new. Who I think is scum depends partly on the nightkill but I didn't like oats posting today and I still think Tofu is scummy. I also did not like CJS posting yesterday even though he was right on malongo but I'm not sure about him. I guess after the nightkill I should have a better understand of what's going on. He keeps using his "noobiness" as an excuse to justify things. In this post, he is saying he won't be killed because he's a noob. In other posts, JAT says people think he's scummy because he's new. He's using it as a fall back option to get himself out of the limelight. The "Scumslip Scumslip" The Timeline: 1) Vayne says he's the cop and he got a red check on Malongo. On July 30 2013 09:21 VayneAuthority wrote: I have a guilty check on malongo. awaiting his response! 2) The votes start piling on in this order: rayn, FirmTofu, Stutters, hzflank. 3) Vayne says two very important things: (1) He lied about being the cop (2) JAT had a very weird response to the claim. Here is the post where Vayne elaborates why. On July 30 2013 09:50 VayneAuthority wrote: if you can give any decent reason for writing what you did in parenthesis I'll be surprised. This is exactly what I was looking for tbh. people with outside info 4) JAT says these two things: On July 30 2013 09:49 justanothertownie wrote: Dude, think about that for a minute. If I was scum - why would I jump on this claim? I would know he is lying (if Malongo is town). AND On July 30 2013 09:54 justanothertownie wrote: Parenthesis? Sorry, im not a native speaker. I liked this check because I came to the conclusion that Tofu and hz are likely to be scum and Malongo was a null read for me which fits in really well because hz wanted no connection between Malongo and Koshi to be had while Koshi was treated as scum. Why is this a scumslip? JAT just said he was town because he jumped on the Malongo lynch. Okay, that's fine. So he should think that everyone who jumped on the Malongo lynch is town, right? WRONG. Both hz and I were on the Malongo lynch and JAT still had us as his top scumreads. There is absolutely no reason why a townie would hold this blatantly contradictory position. JAT must be scum. | ||
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On August 05 2013 14:54 Oatsmaster wrote: pretty ok shot Hzflank. ##vote stutters Oats, you should probably work on reading the thread. Why do you think this is an OK shot when you have had me as a town read for the majority of the game? Also, why are you voting stutters without waiting for my flip? | ||
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I am cautiously in favor of the Koshi lynch but I do think that both Stutters and JAT would be better candidates. Considering that we must lynch correctly or we lose, I think we should choose a safer choice than Koshi. | ||
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On August 05 2013 17:01 Oatsmaster wrote: ?? Its a good shot because then we dont waste today lynching you stutters is scum in every variation of the scumteam I can think of. Most people believe that one of Stutters and me are scum. In your position, don't you think it is wise to wait for my flip to confirm Stutters as scum? Anyway, don't want to argue with you. I agree, Stutters is scum. Let's see if his lynch gathers more votes. Could you take a look at my case on JAT as well? | ||
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On August 05 2013 17:03 Oatsmaster wrote: what why must you wait for the votes? To make the case on Stutters? Mostly because I'm lazy and tired and I don't feel like making another case when JAT and Stutters are both 100% scum. | ||
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We HAVE to lynch correctly or we lose the game. This means we have to lynch the scummiest person. Remember, we all have to vote for the same person. We cannot make any mistakes right now. It's 5 town vs 3 scum. Not a single townie can misvote. We can't have all this nonsense shitting up the thread. @rayn and hzflank Do you really think Oats is the most likely person to flip mafia? If not, don't distract the thread from pursuing the utmost concern today. Focus on your TOP scumread and push him. We can't be dealing with attacks on multiple people right now. | ||
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On August 06 2013 13:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Is this the only question you have after reading the thread? As established in my most recent post, JAT is my top scumread. I'll be pushing him today. He's the most likely scum flip and therefore is the best lynch today. If you think he's town, convince me of why. | ||
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Read my case please. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=422720¤tpage=215#4294 | ||
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On August 06 2013 13:54 raynpelikoneet wrote: so you want us all to consolidate on the same target, then you push the dude you think everyone thinks is town. gj man! As opposed to you, who wants to lynch everyone who pops into the thread and disagrees with you? | ||
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On August 07 2013 03:33 hzflank wrote: Oh I agree. Plenty of things FT has done make him scum. FT has mostly been reactive also. For a guy that signs up to so many games he has been pretty inactive. Also don't forget the point that I made earlier about FT on D3. Firstly, FT should never be submissive to me like that because as I showed he thinks that I am not a good player. Secondly, he seemed to not know what was even going on in the game. I do not buy that FT is not reading the game. In that recent I Swear 2 game FT fake-claimed Traitor and won the game for town, right? That's a good move. How does a player who makes moves like that play the way FT did in this game on D3? Hz, I don't think you are not a good player. You are an excellent player. I just thought you made a few mistakes in our newbie game. My inactivity is not alignment indicative. I have been busy IRL. My inactivity spans all my games in a consistent fashion. I don't think I've been reactive at all. I've constantly been accusing people. First, XRZ. Then, JAT. Can you explain to me what exactly about my play makes you think I am playing reactively? | ||
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This is obviously based on the knowledge that I know I am town. Mafia team is either: JAT/Stutters/Koshi OR JAT/Stutters/ and one of Oats or a Cora GF. Cora GF is highly unlikely, so we can reduce the second team to JAT/Stutters/Oats Because JAT and Stutters have to be scum, I am willing to lynch either of them. I will consolidate on a Koshi lynch if neither of the other lynches gather enough votes. Oats would be an extremely risky lynch so I would rather save that discussion for another day. | ||
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On August 07 2013 04:49 hzflank wrote: We still need 1 more vote on Koshi. We cannot trust him to keep his vote on himself. Stutters / Oats / FT, we need at least one of you. On phone, but ill consolidate for now. ##unvote ##Vote: Koshi | ||
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On August 07 2013 07:47 hzflank wrote: We need 4 votes to lynch today, right? and if I am modkilled we still need 4 votes to win? An IC Vet is completely OP. And me being modkilled will not change the game. ##unvote We need 5 votes, bro. | ||
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On August 07 2013 07:48 justanothertownie wrote: Dude, stop this shit. You are not modconfirmed by this. I agree. Why does everyone think hz is modconfirmed? It was clearly a joke. | ||
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On August 07 2013 08:34 hzflank wrote: We would not have known that people were lurking and not trying to solve the game if it was not for my earlier green text. It would be unfair to move votes based on that, sorry. Scum should not be allowed to lurk No hz. You are playing against your wincon if you actually believe koshi is town and you are stilling willing to lynch him at mylo. You're still wrong about me, but if you genuinely think stutter is scum, then you should be voting him right now. Don't give me this bullshit about cheating. | ||
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On August 07 2013 08:38 hzflank wrote: My vote stays on Koshi, sorry. So you think Koshi is scum or are you throwing the game? | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:00 raynpelikoneet wrote: gj Stutters/FT/JAT. Swap me out with oats and you have the scumteam. GG scum. | ||
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On August 07 2013 09:39 raynpelikoneet wrote: Oh so cool. The game apparently ended when we still had a chance? That´s cool and everything. Unless Oats was going to save JAT, you didn't have a chance. | ||
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Anti-town Townies: rayn- Posting incessantly, switching reads frequently, shitting up the thread with one liners and baseless accusations. This is a guy that is volatile and manipulable. He over-posted, making it hard for townies to catch up to the thread and understand what he was talking about. XRZ- Claiming cop at the last minute right before a lynch on scum. Pursuing scumreads on townies. We knew we could paint this guy in a bad light, so we kept him alive. Oats- Not really doing anything of substance while calling scum 100% confirmed town. This guy had to stay alive, he was a big asset. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:24 Oatsmaster wrote: I think one of the main problems was that none of us really took a step back and reevaluated after like day 3/4 and flips and such. So therefore I thought FT was town when I really shouldnt have, other dudes thought koshi was scum when he wasnt and NOBODY LYNCHED STUTTERS!! ( I actually made a very pro-town post that no one read asking everyone to look into Clarity's filter. Town thought I was scum at that point so everyone ignored it. Their loss. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:25 Oatsmaster wrote: I only called you confirmed town  I was suspecting CJS and stutters was definitely scum. Suspecting CJS and actually pursuing his lynch are two very different things. You were never going to pursue a lynch on CJS so we weren't worried about that. You are right about the Stutters bit, though. | ||
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You played well, but as you said, you grew less confident as the days passed. Stick to your guns and play confidently no matter what happens. It'll make you look town and scare scum simultaneously. Probably would draw the NK too. We would've killed you sooner had you kept up your Day 1 play. | ||
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I think both hz's vet claim and rayn's cop claim played a significant part in losing the game for town. hz would have probably drawn a shot from us had he not claimed. The claim may have somewhat cleared him in town's eyes, but it is not worth the nullification of his ability. Rayn's cop claim was completely unnecessary. He only had a town read, first of all. Why claim and draw the roleblock, condemning yourself to uselessness when you don't even have a scum read? Unless he was really afraid of drawing the night kill AND he was certain that a doc was in the game, claiming made no sense whatsoever. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:40 VayneAuthority wrote: You shouldn't have to get a majority as town, pretty much defeats the purpose of large majority vs small informed minority. Whats the point of having more people if you somehow have to be informed as well? I maintain that majority lynch is an appalling mechanic and I was legitimately confused as to why that was a thing. I've played a lot of mafia games and never seen this before. I think majority lynch is a useful mechanic that hosts can use to give a slight bump in balance towards scum. If the hosts wanted to make a relatively strong town, they could give scum majority lynch to somewhat balance the setup. I personally don't like ML, but I can understand why it was used. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:45 hzflank wrote: hmm, I played 1 game as scum and everyone thought I was town. Then an SK killed me while aiming for town and the scum team crumbled since the other scum were all inactive :/ I enjoyed playing scum more than town. I enjoy scum more than town as well, but I feel that I am better at playing town. As a side note, your experience is exactly why I hate all 3P setups. | ||
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1% 99% 100% are all based on absolutely fucking nothing and aren't going to convince anyone of jackshit. | ||
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Your play can be vastly improved if you cut down on all your association cases. You have to realize that scum will deliberately make it hard to find them by accusing one another. You can't ever say that, "these three are siding with each other and these three are siding with each other so one of them is the scumteam." More often than not, scum will disperse itself on both sides of the lynches to make it harder to associate themselves to one another. | ||
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On August 07 2013 10:58 hzflank wrote: Yeah. I did look very closely at the arguments between Stutters and you to try to determine their authenticity, but I got it wrong. I thought that you and Stutters were both individually scum at the end. But how could I vote for either of you when Koshi was being Koshi and Oats had a townslip on Tofu? Also, there was the greencheck on Cora :/ Completely understandable. I feel your pain. I thought Koshi was scummy as hell the entire game. If I was town, I'd have pushed his lynch from the get-go. He was too useful to us to justify lynching him as scum. | ||
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