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Titanic Mini Mafia! - Page 72

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exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 29 2013 20:16 GMT
#1421
On July 30 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 04:57 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why am i scum to be exact?


I mistyped a little. Didn't exactly read what clarity wrote. I do not have an informed opinion on whether you are scum. You are however part of the group today that have posted theories which is irrelevant upon the information gained upon the end of day 1. I find that to be more scumlike than townlike.

So what should we do in your opinion now?


Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21952 Posts
July 29 2013 20:18 GMT
#1422
On July 30 2013 05:16 exarezee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:57 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why am i scum to be exact?


I mistyped a little. Didn't exactly read what clarity wrote. I do not have an informed opinion on whether you are scum. You are however part of the group today that have posted theories which is irrelevant upon the information gained upon the end of day 1. I find that to be more scumlike than townlike.

So what should we do in your opinion now?


Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there.


Opinion on my dissection of the clarity case?
Do you think that case came from a townie?
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:20 GMT
#1423
On July 30 2013 05:10 Vivax wrote:
Man, I wish I saw this earlier. Clarity, when there is some break in the show yuo're watching I'd like to talk a little it about the reasons in your case on FT, it has multiple grave issues:

Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 19:34 Clarity_nl wrote:

On July 27 2013 09:54 FirmTofu wrote:
Yeah, I dunno what you guys are doing fluffing up the thread with fluff and general bullshit but It's be great if we could discuss the game now.


FirmTofu would like us all to actually discuss the game, instead of all this fluff that's going on, like everyone talking about the lurker lynch policy!
Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point.

Firmtofu before this point however, did not discuss anything other than lurker lynch policy:
+ Show Spoiler +
On July 27 2013 09:25 FirmTofu wrote:
Okay, I'm back on a computer.
Show nested quote +
On July 27 2013 09:01 Vivax wrote:
Hi guys, I propose that we lynch the lurkiest guy D1.Obviously if someone looks really scummy then we lynch him first, but if that's not the case then we lynch the guy with the least posts. I think scum really likes to post as few as possible.

I know that's gonna look kinda scummy, but I'm going to bed now. Gn!

This comes up every game. How scummy does someone have to be for you to want to lynch them over a lurker? You have to consider that lynching lurkers provides very little information whereas lynching scummy people might tell us a lot about how people are related to one another.

On July 27 2013 09:40 FirmTofu wrote:
To all of you that are out there...

Do you think policy lynching a lurker day 1 is a good idea? Why or why not?

On July 27 2013 09:41 FirmTofu wrote:
Personally, I think we should use it as a last resort. Lynch a lurker only if
1) Half the town is lurking
or
2) All the active people look genuinely helpful/useful and none of them look like good lynches.


Shitting on town, regardless of if you're being a hypocrite or not, is something scum love doing.

=========================================================================================
If you actually went through the trouble of looking at the context of FT's post at the time, he posted it right after Vayne posted the gif of the gal with the crooked teeth, and Koshi counted to 3 in the thread. He didn't complain about the lurker discussion, he complained about general bullshit posting.
=========================================================================================

Then there is the useless vote with an easy out, classic scum:

On July 27 2013 11:37 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 27 2013 11:35 exarezee wrote:
@FirmTofu

I'd rather wait until more posts are made. I think only 6 or 7 of the players in the game have posted so far.

If you're going to wait, then I'm going to have to vote you until you do.
##Vote: exarezee
You can't simply say you have scumreads and not explain them.


"I am voting for you, and I will keep my vote on you until you do X!"

This is not a vote to kill scum, this is a vote to have a vote on someone, and he backs off the moment his demands are met.
On July 27 2013 13:31 FirmTofu wrote:
##Unvote
I'm not sure that the case on paperscraps has much substance to it, but at least it's something.


Not only does he back off the moment he's able to, he's also wishy-washy about the case itself.


=========================================================================================
That wasn't a vote to kill scum, that was a vote to get XRZ to post his scumreads. And he backed off the moment he did it. Did you really think that made FT scum? You are saying he just did it for the sake of voting. I see a guy using his vote to get information for town, don't you think?
=========================================================================================


But the most troubling things I found were his last two posts:

On July 27 2013 13:39 FirmTofu wrote:
If I had to lynch someone right now, it would be CJS. All of his posts are filled with fluff and he has a random vote on Oats. I'm hating having to decipher all of his wordplay in his posting.

Paperscraps would not be a bad lynch for similar reasons. I'm not as convinced as I am for CJS, but suspicion is still there.

Right now, exarezee is looking pretty town.


Notice how he explains that he's having a hard time reading CJS because of his roleplay, and Paperscraps would be a good lynch too because he's hard to read. That's all well and good, pressure them to be more easier to read, but the mindset is revealed in the part I bolded.
He first claims that if he had to lynch someone it would be CJS or Paper because they're currently hard to read, but now he's suddenly saying he's suspicious that they're scum? why?

Then he throws a random unsolicited townread into his post, because scum love giving townreads.

=========================================================================================
Do scum love giving townreads? I don't know man. It really depends. It usually means they can hardly push suspicion on the guy they townread without having to explain themselves for the townread. In fact, you can catch scum by finding unexplainable townreads.
As for your other arguments, I don't understand why someone can't assume that people who post fluff and make themselves hard to read are scum. How does that opinion make FT scum?Like, what's so scum agenda-like about what he was doing?

=========================================================================================


On July 27 2013 13:41 FirmTofu wrote:
I want to hear more from stutters and the people who haven't posted yet. For all we know, the entire mafia team could be in that group of people.


This post is the epitome of useless. Instead of focusing on the information we do have, Firm decides to point out that there's no point in scumhunting because for all we know all the people who haven't posted are scum.

FirmTofu is pretty likely scum and our best lynch right now.

=========================================================================================
Did FT exclusively post that and not do anything else? Had that been the case, then this argument might have been valid, but given that Tofu had shown enough effort before, I don't think this applies at all.
=========================================================================================


I really don't like this case broski.



Okay, first one I actually included that in the case: "Granted, this post might have been in context with Koshi's 1,2,3 posts, but that was Koshi trying to prove a point."
Second, Yes, votes can have different reasons other than killing people. But when you announce the reason your vote becomes useless cause if your target is scum he'll just do whatever it is to get the vote off, as will town.
Third, yes scum love giving townreads. But you know what's scummy about that townread? No fucking reason for him to give a townread. And no reasons for his townread being town. He just calls someone town for no reason.
Last one, from what I recall, without looking back, yes he didn't do much up until that point. Leaving the thread that way, saying it's useless to do stuff anyway, is scummy.

That said, obviously when he started posting again he explained some stuff, and he contributed some stuff (not saying the contributions are good)
But aren't you doing exactly what you say is wrong with my case? just picking it apart, finding "mistakes"

Could you reply to my earlier post?
On July 30 2013 04:31 Clarity_nl wrote:
Watching sgdq bro, am keeping up with the thread but not filterdiving or anything. I'll get a post up before night ends obviously.
Yes, I just admitted to LURKING, omg.

Seriously though, my cases are the same town or scum, you're actually making me doubt the way I make cases though.
I get a feeling someone is scum, I read through all their stuff in context, then if I still think he's scum I try to convince others.
Using their posts and viewing it from a scum/town perspective and explaining which makes more sense seems like the way to do it.

You're using cases that scum have made that have the same building blocks, picking away at posts, but I bet I can find a ton of them made by townies as well so I don't really understand your point. Other than my FT case, do I look like scum to you?


FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:21 GMT
#1424
On July 30 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:
Like, you might wonder why I'm posting this, now that the FT lynch is out of discussion for clarity, but that case looks generally really bad, in a scummy way. It seems designed to push a lynch on a guy without genuinely trying to figure out his alignment, and the judgment is too quick for my taste.


Why not bring it up day 1? Like, way earlier.
Also, yes the case comes on stronger than my read was at the time, but that's the point, I pressure FT and see how he reacts, and he WAS my strongest read at the time so I pushed him
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 29 2013 20:26 GMT
#1425
On July 30 2013 05:18 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:16 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:57 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why am i scum to be exact?


I mistyped a little. Didn't exactly read what clarity wrote. I do not have an informed opinion on whether you are scum. You are however part of the group today that have posted theories which is irrelevant upon the information gained upon the end of day 1. I find that to be more scumlike than townlike.

So what should we do in your opinion now?


Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there.


Opinion on my dissection of the clarity case?
Do you think that case came from a townie?


I remember clarity's case clearly from reading it on day 1. He along with hzflank, I liked a lot of their posts. I even directly told clairty i liked all his posts except one. I think he approached the case from a town perspective. I think you could make your case as a townie or scum. You do the same thing you fault him for. You dissect the case and point out mistakes. He does not really have any logical mistakes. And you do not show insight as to why he would do something as a town and not as scum.
exarezee
Profile Joined July 2013
United States423 Posts
July 29 2013 20:29 GMT
#1426
Oh, and if you're asking me whether I think clarity made that case as a townie? then that is a yes.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21952 Posts
July 29 2013 20:29 GMT
#1427
But aren't you doing exactly what you say is wrong with my case? just picking it apart, finding "mistakes"


I'm fact checking you, and asking you about things I disagree with. Furthermore, I don't say at the end "Clarity is scum and should be lynched". That is something that seems hasty, and doesn't show the intent of gaining information from you, it shows intent of hammering you. Anyway, I want to keep this as objective as possible, so let's just keep talking.

On July 30 2013 05:21 Clarity_nl wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:
Like, you might wonder why I'm posting this, now that the FT lynch is out of discussion for clarity, but that case looks generally really bad, in a scummy way. It seems designed to push a lynch on a guy without genuinely trying to figure out his alignment, and the judgment is too quick for my taste.


Why not bring it up day 1? Like, way earlier.
Also, yes the case comes on stronger than my read was at the time, but that's the point, I pressure FT and see how he reacts, and he WAS my strongest read at the time so I pushed him


Cause I don't always play to the best of my ability, and I had other clues to go after D1. I found FT scummy myself, and you rather townie at first impression. Reading thoroughly requires a lot of time, I'm already spending more than I'd want to on reading and writing so I don't have the perfect overview of the game.

Anyway, I'm still going through your filter, if I find something I'll tell you. Ezpz.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21952 Posts
July 29 2013 20:33 GMT
#1428
On July 30 2013 05:26 exarezee wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:18 Vivax wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:16 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:57 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why am i scum to be exact?


I mistyped a little. Didn't exactly read what clarity wrote. I do not have an informed opinion on whether you are scum. You are however part of the group today that have posted theories which is irrelevant upon the information gained upon the end of day 1. I find that to be more scumlike than townlike.

So what should we do in your opinion now?


Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there.


Opinion on my dissection of the clarity case?
Do you think that case came from a townie?


I remember clarity's case clearly from reading it on day 1. He along with hzflank, I liked a lot of their posts. I even directly told clairty i liked all his posts except one. I think he approached the case from a town perspective. I think you could make your case as a townie or scum. You do the same thing you fault him for. You dissect the case and point out mistakes. He does not really have any logical mistakes. And you do not show insight as to why he would do something as a town and not as scum.


Town wants to solve the game and gain information. Scum wants to act like townie and cause mislynches.
If someone posts a bunch of summarized reasons without a real conclusive reasoning behind it, drops a vote, and fucks off afterwards cause they feel they just contributed then it's probably scum.
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:35 GMT
#1429
Why wouldn't you go through the entirety of my filter and note everything you find scummy before you criticize a single post I've made? As you know I didn't hammer FT, but I think the way I approached that case I applied maximum pressure to him, which I think gains the most information.

Anyway my goal before the night is over is to look over xrz, FT and rayn.
I can't tell if I'm being stubborn with my townread on FT because of that one moment, but I'm not ready to say I should treat that as null, I really don't see scum doing that.
rayn his list post felt like scum, then he felt like town until we got close to lynch and he made it extremely chaotic, and I gotta figure out if that's because he's scum or not.
Why I'm looking into xrz should be obvious.

On July 30 2013 05:33 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 30 2013 05:26 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:18 Vivax wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:16 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 05:01 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:57 exarezee wrote:
On July 30 2013 04:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:
so why am i scum to be exact?


I mistyped a little. Didn't exactly read what clarity wrote. I do not have an informed opinion on whether you are scum. You are however part of the group today that have posted theories which is irrelevant upon the information gained upon the end of day 1. I find that to be more scumlike than townlike.

So what should we do in your opinion now?


Wait and see. Again, I've never played in a game where you can talk N1. I usually have more information to work with at this stage. I have to leave in about 1hr 15 min and will be gone for the rest of N1 phase, but I'm sure I'll be alive tomorrow. And If I do happen to die, it will be a benefit to your eyes. So my plan is to wait and see what happens during the N1 action phase and then contribute D2 if i'm still there.


Opinion on my dissection of the clarity case?
Do you think that case came from a townie?


I remember clarity's case clearly from reading it on day 1. He along with hzflank, I liked a lot of their posts. I even directly told clairty i liked all his posts except one. I think he approached the case from a town perspective. I think you could make your case as a townie or scum. You do the same thing you fault him for. You dissect the case and point out mistakes. He does not really have any logical mistakes. And you do not show insight as to why he would do something as a town and not as scum.


Town wants to solve the game and gain information. Scum wants to act like townie and cause mislynches.
If someone posts a bunch of summarized reasons without a real conclusive reasoning behind it, drops a vote, and fucks off afterwards cause they feel they just contributed then it's probably scum.


True, but that's not what I did, like, at all.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 29 2013 20:38 GMT
#1430
On July 30 2013 05:35 Clarity_nl wrote:

rayn his list post felt like scum, then he felt like town until we got close to lynch and he made it extremely chaotic, and I gotta figure out if that's because he's scum or not.

Im interested in hearing how i made the lynch chaotic..
table for two on a tv tray
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:40 GMT
#1431
Mainly your hard tunnel on Koshi with questionable reasons. I think at the time it felt like you were town who genuinely thought he just found scum, but gotta double check. Plus I don't think you've mentioned or pushed Koshi much this night, which seems strange
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 29 2013 20:43 GMT
#1432
So i might be scum because i was pretty much the only one besides Vivax who tried to push an alternative wagon than town!Paper?
table for two on a tv tray
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:45 GMT
#1433
You can phrase it any way you want. Just said I was looking into you among others. chill broski
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
raynpelikoneet
Profile Joined April 2007
Finland43268 Posts
July 29 2013 20:46 GMT
#1434
You are not making a lot of sense right now. And how was that chaotic? Especially how was my push "extremely chaotic" compared to others?
table for two on a tv tray
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 20:48 GMT
#1435
On July 30 2013 05:46 raynpelikoneet wrote:
You are not making a lot of sense right now. And how was that chaotic? Especially how was my push "extremely chaotic" compared to others?


That's how it felt, I'll let you know when I get to it.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21952 Posts
July 29 2013 20:58 GMT
#1436
Halfway through Clarity's filter, I actually don't see anything else suspicious. I can see his train of thought.
Proceeding.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 29 2013 21:09 GMT
#1437
Hi guys, I'm back. Catching up now.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
Vivax
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
21952 Posts
July 29 2013 21:09 GMT
#1438
Can you explain to me what happened to your opinion on Koshi between these posts?

On July 28 2013 23:43 Clarity_nl wrote:
I kinda want to lynch Koshi now.
I can't explain him not giving a read with reasons as town, but I can't explain it if he's scum either.
Doesn't make sense as either alignment = scum.

Show nested quote +
On July 28 2013 23:35 VayneAuthority wrote:
Don't you feel he's scared that im vig or something and will shoot him oats? He doesnt actually give a good reason for lynching me. Haha.

I dont know if hes scared scum or town though


What's this random mention of vigi? If you were vigi (which is town only) why would you shoot someone trying to lynch you, or why would the person trying to lynch you be afraid of that. I'm confused.



On July 29 2013 03:01 Clarity_nl wrote:
Although I disagree with most of what he's said since he came back, he seems to be trying to figure the game out.
Also OMG FOUND A SCUMSLIP classic town, hard to fake. At the very least don't lynch him today.

I'm gonna be gone for a couple of hours but will be back with plenty of time to spare.

I suggest people look into Oats, Stutters and Malongo.
Right now I think I'm willing to lynch Malongo (waiting on him to show up first) or Stutters.

Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 21:12 GMT
#1439
2nd post is about FT.

Anyway, I did did change my opinion on him at one point, can't remember why though, I just remember reading his filter and thinking he wouldn't be a good lynch D1.
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
Clarity_nl
Profile Joined November 2011
Netherlands6826 Posts
July 29 2013 21:13 GMT
#1440
I was kinda desperate to find a good lynch at that point, honestly. My saying I wanna lynch koshi was a bit kneejerk
FIGHT THE GOOD FIGHT AGAINST STUPIDITY CLARITY, I BELIEVE IN YOU! - Palmar
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