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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Just got past the host controversy. Has WoS been posting since then?
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Rayn, 7 pages of filter and the only time you take an actual stance on Vayne is when you say that he is town from PoE. This is weak. On day 1 you generally aren't very certain on anything, and you are no way in hell being to single out the whole scum team and being able to say that someone is town due to PoE.
Ignoring everyone else, whats your stance on him?
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On July 02 2013 05:21 Lazermonkey wrote:
Rayn, 7 pages of filter and the only time you take an actual stance on Vayne is when you say that he is town from PoE. This is weak. On day 1 you generally aren't very certain on anything, and you are no way in hell being to single out the whole scum team and being able to say that someone is town due to PoE.
Ignoring everyone else, whats your stance on him?
Town. By PoE and by posting.
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Wait, so all this about WoS is that he is useless? Or am I missing something?
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Lazer, u realize that the only guy who has a chance to be lynched besides you is probably WoS and maybe fuba given his strange in-post-switch?
Given your spare comments about the two it would be nice if you could lead us towards a read on them, if you are town.
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On July 02 2013 05:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 05:21 Lazermonkey wrote:
Rayn, 7 pages of filter and the only time you take an actual stance on Vayne is when you say that he is town from PoE. This is weak. On day 1 you generally aren't very certain on anything, and you are no way in hell being to single out the whole scum team and being able to say that someone is town due to PoE.
Ignoring everyone else, whats your stance on him? Town. By PoE and by posting. Disregard PoE. Explain why his posting is town.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
Gonna ##Vote: WaveofShadow for now. Still reading the thread but he's underwhelmed me most so far. Everything else is so fucking dense.
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On July 02 2013 05:23 Vivax wrote:
Lazer, u realize that the only guy who has a chance to be lynched besides you is probably WoS and maybe fuba given his strange in-post-switch?
Given your spare comments about the two it would be nice if you could lead us towards a read on them, if you are town. Summarize the case on WoS.
Also, only 3 votes on me, we can still swap to anyone really.
+ I can just claim if shit hits the fan.
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He has similar suspects to me, besides Stutters. He has good reasoning behind his posts. He is looking into places i think are right.
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This is one of the reasons I didn't like WoS. He talks lengthy about stuff that isn't conclusive or relevant for finding scum.
He talked with you about this btw.
Given you have Vayne as scumread, and WoS called him a policy lynch after arguing with you that he can't be called lynchbait, why weren't you at least a little suspicious of WoS?
On July 02 2013 00:23 Vivax wrote:Specifically, I don't like this post about Vayne, it feels like he talks a lot about something which is completely irrelevant to finding scum. Arguing about the definition of lynch baits and Vayne's meta was not something really relevant at the stage where he wrote that: Show nested quote +On June 30 2013 20:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia? I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?) As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well. Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know: a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green? b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you? This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier. This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch.
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On July 02 2013 05:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:
He has similar suspects to me, besides Stutters. He has good reasoning behind his posts. He is looking into places i think are right. Well, this looks like BS to me but I don't have time to argue right now.
@everyone, please give your opinion on Vayne...
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On July 02 2013 05:26 Vivax wrote:This is one of the reasons I didn't like WoS. He talks lengthy about stuff that isn't conclusive or relevant for finding scum. He talked with you about this btw. Given you have Vayne as scumread, and WoS called him a policy lynch after arguing with you that he can't be called lynchbait, why weren't you at least a little suspicious of WoS? Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 00:23 Vivax wrote:Specifically, I don't like this post about Vayne, it feels like he talks a lot about something which is completely irrelevant to finding scum. Arguing about the definition of lynch baits and Vayne's meta was not something really relevant at the stage where he wrote that: On June 30 2013 20:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia? I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?) As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well. Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know: a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green? b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you? This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier. This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch. I don't get it. Why would I be suspicious of him becuase of the policy shit?
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btw, I agree with WoS being useless but I'd rather kill someone scummy (Vayne) than someone useless...
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On July 02 2013 01:23 Stutters695 wrote:My vote on JJD was a straight sheep, I liked his case. I didn't have time to type up a case last night but this post is why I'd be ok seeing Fuba hang. Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 07:00 mkfuba07 wrote:
Oh wow. I wake up and there's over 100 more posts. Apologies in advance for the giant post. A lot has happened. Some stream of consciousness thoughts as I catch up:
Vayne entering the thread with thread analysis on D1 was as surprising for me as it appears it was for WoS XD I don't see the scumminess from Lazer's 6th post (Is it this one? "Marv, which game were you fake claiming miller?"), so could you explain it Vayne?
Oats's vote on rayn was interesting, because I didn't think of rayn's actions from that persepective. The thing is, though, rayn had thought the situation through. The way oats presents it is as though rayn simply saw marv claim miller, and accepted it as true. Then went on to buddy him. This is clearly not what happened.
s0Lstice's first post was interesting (I'm gonna end up saying "interesting" a lot. Too tired at the moment to not be repetitive). First of all, I don't see how that progression indicates Stutters as scum. I found him most suspicious for the aggression so early, not that his reasoning was flawed regarding scum and millers. It's also pretty weird that s0L says Lazer is suspicious for spending so much time thinking about the miller claim when he just gave a town read to rayn, who has apparently spent just as much time doing so. s0L did mention Vivax, who I failed to comment on earlier. The passive shit flinging is something I'd missed, but it seems legit. Why even mention marv being less active so far when he mentioned little more than an hour before that he was going to be pretty inactive for a while? The self-conscious bit I pretty much ignored, since I'm that way every time I post, but I'm keeping the first point in mind.
Vivax's first post after returning actually had a really good point in it. Not that what marv did was scummy, but that the miller claim definitely can't be taken as a town tell now. Rayn followed that post with this: "No it's not. Fakeclaiming miller 5min into the game is dumb and unnecessary as scum and if someone was dumb enough to fakeclaim after marv we had a 50% chance to right out catch them by having them post the role PM first." I'm starting to see what oats was getting at, now. Rayn seems incapable of believing marv is scum, even though it's been shown that the claim is unreliable. Like, in that quote, while admitting the possibility of a fakeclaim, he refuses to believe it could be marv lying.
Lazermonkey: My experience with Vayne is that I can't read him for shit. Well, I mean, I guess I kind of could early on in Roulette, when I found he had "scum potential, but was not necessarily scummy". I'd definitely trust WoS's analysis of Vayne's scum play, especially if Vayne doesn't contest it himself (unless they're both scum... so take that with a grain of salt).
Vivax: "I'm really curious to see which name marv will claim." Why will that actually matter at this point?
Caught up~~
Man, you guys post a lot.
So, current thoughts. Oats is acting almost exactly like he was as town in Roulette. The difference is his approach to pushing his lynch, which seems more persuasive, as opposed to commanding. I think he mentioned at the end of Roulette that he was going to work on that, and his play this game is consistent with that. He's probably my strongest townread at the moment.
Vayne hasn't actually said all that much. I appreciated his first post, then he kind of disappeared. Not much to say. Would still like to know what's so scummy about that Lazer post.
Stutters: Not entirely sure what to think. His explanation for the aggression is pretty much a null tell. He does seem to be posting more than I remember, but the content is mostly defending himself. He also says we should discuss other players, but doesn't suggest any himself. Still very "vayne from roulette"-y for me.
Vivax: I like what he's said about rayn, wasn't impressed by marv's supposed scumminess for not posting his full role PM. That assumes that town marv would have naturally posted his role PM when claiming miller, something that I don't think is a natural inclination. The fact that he went into Carnival Cruise and found evidence of rayn's previous reactions to miller claims gives him some townie points. Overall, slight town, though he's apparently thinking about marv a lot, which I find strange given that marv hasn't really been here at all.
marv: Come back to us, dear. ^^
rayn: After Vivax's marv post, I expected rayn to be less insistent on him being confirmed town. It would have been *much* easier for scum to fakeclaim miller in this situation than I thought, and I don't see how this isn't obvious from a town perspective. Add to that Vivax's case, where he points out that rayn accepts the existence of a miller at face value, and I'm pretty convinced. He's far too eager to accept the claim as truth, when it should now have little effect on the mind of a townie. My only reluctance to vote for him is his activity level, which I tend to associate with town.
##Vote: raynpelikoneet
Everyone else is gonna need a filter dive, and I'm going to have to reread the posts I read while writing this, but I feel comfortable with my The first half is just his observations vote where it is. 1) First, remember after the post Rayne jumped on me for he said I reminded him of Vayne in Roulette (scummy but town by PoE to pretty much everyone in the thread if you haven't read it). 2) First half is all summaries, meaningless since anyone reading the thread would know those events. Probably null, maybe slightly scummy. 3) His point on Oats is decent, and pretty much how I feel, nothing wrong there. 4) Vayne: null, nothing of value except a question that he's never here to follow up on. 5) Me: Says my actions are null to scummy but I remind him of a townie from the last game we played? Why is this Fuba? Scared to take a stance? 6) Vivax: only slight town yet he has nothing bad to say about him. Why only slight town? Again not very committal. 7) Marv: useless fluff 8) Rayne: Essentially agrees with Vivax on who is scum and why yet neglects any other posts from Rayn to show a scum mindset or any individual thought. 9) Essentially his entire post is trying to cover up the fact that all he is doing is agreeing with Vivax. Where is your usual analysis Fuba?
1) Explained this already. Your explanation is either mistaken (which is weird, because you accepted this reasoning during Roulette) or a misrepresentation. "Vayne from Roulette" for me is "lots of scum potential, but all things I've seen townies do".
2) No, many of those show my perspective on what happened. It was summary + analysis, which only seems reasonable since I was playing almost a day behind everyone else.
3) K.
4) Not scummy.
5) Already explained. And I haven't been here to take a stance except for the one that I did. Why interpreting what I've said differently this game compared to last game?
6) What does this even mean? If I had something significantly bad to say about him I'd say slight scum, not town at all. And I actually did say something bad about him in the paragraph before. It was weird that he pointed out marv being mia when marv said he was going to be missing shortly before that. Just wasn't bad enough to invalidate the good points.
7) True. Sorry for being eager to play with a friend again -_-
8) So the reasoning should be invalidated because rayn didn't scumslip in every one of his posts? I found him scummy for one post in roulette. How is this different?
9) First point, not true. Second, you quoted it.
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On July 02 2013 05:28 Lazermonkey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 05:26 Vivax wrote:This is one of the reasons I didn't like WoS. He talks lengthy about stuff that isn't conclusive or relevant for finding scum. He talked with you about this btw. Given you have Vayne as scumread, and WoS called him a policy lynch after arguing with you that he can't be called lynchbait, why weren't you at least a little suspicious of WoS? On July 02 2013 00:23 Vivax wrote:Specifically, I don't like this post about Vayne, it feels like he talks a lot about something which is completely irrelevant to finding scum. Arguing about the definition of lynch baits and Vayne's meta was not something really relevant at the stage where he wrote that: On June 30 2013 20:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia? I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?) As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well. Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know: a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green? b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you? This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier. This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch. I don't get it. Why would I be suspicious of him becuase of the policy shit?
Maybe cause he writes a lengthy post for why Vayne isn't lynch bait, then concludes with saying that he doesn't have a read on him and is a policy lynch?
You had a scumread on him, I would imagine that such a post would raise red flags for me if I had Vayne as scumread. It already did without me having Vayne as scumread.
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We are not lynching Vayne. We are lynching you/WoS/Fuba, so why can't you just comment on them?
You had two days to make a case on Vayne, and you failed. You don't get us to look at him now, 30min before the lynch, when you have shown no interest in asking us to do that before.
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On July 02 2013 05:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
We are not lynching Vayne. We are lynching you/WoS/Fuba, so why can't you just comment on them?
You had two days to make a case on Vayne, and you failed. You don't get us to look at him now, 30min before the lynch, when you have shown no interest in asking us to do that before.
why are we not lynching Vayne?
His filter is extraordinarily short (i know, i know). also just found this
On July 02 2013 01:16 VayneAuthority wrote:
can we agree collectively as a game to not claim roles in this open setup? It's pretty broken and I didn't sign up for a lets all claim and lynch at 50/50 game.
With that said I am mainly looking at lazer/WoS now.
Lazer's posting has been fairly more townie as of recently but the fact that he OMGUS'd me from my accusations is a bit alarming when he gave very little reasoning. It seems like he's trying to keep himself on the good side of most of the people in the game so instead of scum hunting he just goes right back at the accuser.
As for WoS I am not really a fan of what he's done so far, he has been very passive yet exceedingly angry which is somewhat how he played in Les Mis. The fact that he says I am playing differently and doesn't know what to make of it leads me to believe that he knows I am town somehow, might have been a scumslip.
Vayne pretty much admits himself in past games that he likes to solve games by night interactions and kills, claims etc. Seems completely against his MO to advise against it this game.
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On July 02 2013 05:30 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 05:28 Lazermonkey wrote:On July 02 2013 05:26 Vivax wrote:This is one of the reasons I didn't like WoS. He talks lengthy about stuff that isn't conclusive or relevant for finding scum. He talked with you about this btw. Given you have Vayne as scumread, and WoS called him a policy lynch after arguing with you that he can't be called lynchbait, why weren't you at least a little suspicious of WoS? On July 02 2013 00:23 Vivax wrote:Specifically, I don't like this post about Vayne, it feels like he talks a lot about something which is completely irrelevant to finding scum. Arguing about the definition of lynch baits and Vayne's meta was not something really relevant at the stage where he wrote that: On June 30 2013 20:07 WaveofShadow wrote:On June 30 2013 19:54 Lazermonkey wrote:On June 30 2013 19:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Seriously everyone. Think about it yourself:
Would you claim miller 5 minutes into the game as mafia? What would you gain by doing so?
If someone gives me a reasonable answer to this question i promise to reconsider my read on marv. Don't make it sound like Marv had to think everything through in just 5 minutes because that's just not true. It's not like its impossible to plan that if you roll mafia in a game, you want to fake claim miller. What do I know, maybe he even requested mafia? I'm not sure how relevant that is. (Does anyone know if iGrok is the type of host to give requests rather than RNG?) As for Vayne, there's not a great deal to say. Played here in one of the first games on the site, disappears and plays on Mafiascum for a while (I think?). Comes back, does decently in newbie games, then causes a whole bunch of shit when playing with the big boys because his playstyle doesn't fit with how we play on TL. He often talks big about how he doesn't do much analysis on the first day but then gets criticized when his play doesn't pick up on subsequent days. Is lynchbait in a lot of his town games and some of his play is questionable. His sole game as mafia was with me and he did really well. Trying to recognize someone as lynchbait worries me a little, Lazer. It becomes one of those WIFOM things where we don't know: a) Are you targeting him because he is lynchbait and you get a pass on that if he flips green? b) Are you targeting him because he looks scummy to you? This was an issue with jaybrundage in Roulette mini. His play on the lynchbait thing was different in that he self-acknowledged as lynchbait at the start of the game (which I found scummy) and said anyone who goes after him as such was scummy. Turned out he was scum, but me and mostly everyone else ended up not doing much suspecting of him throughout the game because despite saying he was lynchbait, he didn't act as such. That honestly should have set off alarms for me and everyone else much earlier. This may seem off-topic but in conclusion my stance on it is lynchbait or not, if he's not actively disruptive to town play, and not acting/playing scummy, then I have no reason to lynch him currently. I had talked in an earlier obs QT about the idea of policy lynching because Vayne ends up lynchbait a lot and doesn't play when asked a lot, but that doesn't seem to be the case this game as I mentioned to him, plus I don't think I have the pull/balls to carry off a straight policy lynch. I don't get it. Why would I be suspicious of him becuase of the policy shit? Maybe cause he writes a lengthy post for why Vayne isn't lynch bait, then concludes with saying that he doesn't have a read on him and is a policy lynch? You had a scumread on him, I would imagine that such a post would raise red flags for me if I had Vayne as scumread. It already did without me having Vayne as scumread. That just seems retarded as either alignment...
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Fuba comment on your in-post-180 Vivax pointed out.
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EPT
