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Forum Index > TL Mafia
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strongandbig
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States4858 Posts
July 11 2013 17:35 GMT
#2261
On July 12 2013 02:28 FirmTofu wrote:
@strongandbig
If you are gonna claim, then claim. Don't fucking soft-claim and let everyone talk about it for 2 hours before you come out and own up to it. Fuck.

how is that soft

derpburgler
"It's the torso" "only more so!"
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:37 GMT
#2262
On July 12 2013 02:35 strongandbig wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:28 FirmTofu wrote:
@strongandbig
If you are gonna claim, then claim. Don't fucking soft-claim and let everyone talk about it for 2 hours before you come out and own up to it. Fuck.

how is that soft

derpburgler

Ok, let me make this easy for you.

Is your role the Immune One?
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
July 11 2013 17:38 GMT
#2263
On July 12 2013 02:34 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:19 geript wrote:
@Ace Take a look at FT's NMM game here. I'll be voting for nuking him/ lynching him tomorrow.

Basic summary:
1. Huge disparity in activity level (not wholly indicative of scum but at least a point in scum favor) which leads me to believe that he's significantly less confident in himself this game (scum tell)
2. Huge disparity in how he's creating reads and trying to push players (was town in NMM and did a very good job both in pushing his reads and in finding good reads to push [even if he got off track at points]). Looks like he's taking a different tack in approaching his reads = scum tell.
3. Role fishing = scummy
4. I don't have a nuke but I wish I did.

I might as well address this...
1. Nope, not really. Yeah, last game I was a bit more active early on but that was because there was so much less to read. In this game, it takes me a lot longer to catch up and form reads.
2. You might want to expand on this. I am doing a good job at finding reads(Vayne and jampi) and pushing them as evidenced by my fervor to tunnel both of them to oblivion.
3. Role fishing? Where? Please point me to one post where I role fish. I will address it directly.
4. This isn't even a point against me.

You yourself said that you don't use meta to form reads but all I see in this accusation are meta arguments. Do you have a better reason to accuse me or are you simply defending your scumbuddy Ace?

You missed the subtlety in my accusations. The meta point only applies to #1.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
July 11 2013 17:38 GMT
#2264
On July 12 2013 02:37 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:35 strongandbig wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:28 FirmTofu wrote:
@strongandbig
If you are gonna claim, then claim. Don't fucking soft-claim and let everyone talk about it for 2 hours before you come out and own up to it. Fuck.

how is that soft

derpburgler

Ok, let me make this easy for you.

Is your role the Immune One?

lol
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 11 2013 17:39 GMT
#2265
On July 12 2013 02:26 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:21 austinmcc wrote:
Read through, not entirely processed.

I don't think someone being immune one = them being town. I actually thought Onegu was crumbing some kind of radiation medic, he seemed to know how radiation worked, how it killed, but claimed no nuke. That role seemed very townie to me.

For no raisin, I'm assuming that with some of these roles that exist in multiples, some of there were assigned to scum. But if we start seeing 3 people claiming 48-hour unstable nukes, immune ones, defense grids, etc. then I think it's ALMOST a listcheck saying someone in that bunch is scum. Immune one a perfectly fine mafia role tbh, if they have any radiation nukes they can drop em on townies OR on a known immune one and use it as extra KP from thereon out, irradiating people.

As best as I can tell...Ace is not nuked anymore, and was given a nuke by an unknown. Maju had a nuke, and used it on jampi? He did not claim it until recently, and did not say whether he has had it the whole time or how it came into being? And also...sentinel nuked DI/XigXag, but did not claim from whence his nuke came? Is that...the nuking story as it sits right now?

You people make me sad.... but I like this post. I had the idea of a using the roles as a listcheck, but I'm pretty sure artanis is a bastard host so it wouldn't be that worthwhile.
Talk to sleeping austin and working austin about that.

Lotta stuff went down in a small period of time. I don't care whether artanis is a bastard host or not, some of these roles most certainly exist on both sides (or people are just fake claiming). For instance, in game where ZERO people have claimed radiation nukes, we have 3-4 people claiming immune one. I read that as some people fake claiming, and an indicator that radiation nukes are a scum (possibly 3P) mechanic.

OP also has to go and say "many types of nukes," which may or may not be artanis getting cheeky, but indicates that there should be more than just nukes and radiation nukes.

I dunno, I found jampidampi's response to rayn's stuff very scummy. I haven't gone back over all this recent maju stuff, but ... I don't think I'd save him if it were me. Don't believe we've got 4 town immune ones, although maybe 1/2 the thread dies of radiation poisoning tonight and we realize it's a bigger mechanic than we thought.
Fe fi fo fum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:39 GMT
#2266
On July 12 2013 02:38 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:34 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:19 geript wrote:
@Ace Take a look at FT's NMM game here. I'll be voting for nuking him/ lynching him tomorrow.

Basic summary:
1. Huge disparity in activity level (not wholly indicative of scum but at least a point in scum favor) which leads me to believe that he's significantly less confident in himself this game (scum tell)
2. Huge disparity in how he's creating reads and trying to push players (was town in NMM and did a very good job both in pushing his reads and in finding good reads to push [even if he got off track at points]). Looks like he's taking a different tack in approaching his reads = scum tell.
3. Role fishing = scummy
4. I don't have a nuke but I wish I did.

I might as well address this...
1. Nope, not really. Yeah, last game I was a bit more active early on but that was because there was so much less to read. In this game, it takes me a lot longer to catch up and form reads.
2. You might want to expand on this. I am doing a good job at finding reads(Vayne and jampi) and pushing them as evidenced by my fervor to tunnel both of them to oblivion.
3. Role fishing? Where? Please point me to one post where I role fish. I will address it directly.
4. This isn't even a point against me.

You yourself said that you don't use meta to form reads but all I see in this accusation are meta arguments. Do you have a better reason to accuse me or are you simply defending your scumbuddy Ace?

You missed the subtlety in my accusations. The meta point only applies to #1.

Explain to me how #2 is not meta.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
July 11 2013 17:40 GMT
#2267
@Austin. Imma go take a lunch break and get the oil in my car changed. Mind reading up on FT. You seeing what I'm seeing or am I just being me?
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
July 11 2013 17:41 GMT
#2268
On July 12 2013 02:26 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:19 Xatalos wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:15 FirmTofu wrote:
I am now going to address the wagon on Maju. I'm not really convinced either way(I have a null read on Maju) and I think Ace would be a much better lynch target.

There is a part of my interaction with Maju that pushes me towards a town read that I would like to mention. Maju said he wanted to lynch Vayne, but I specifically forced him to consider switching his best scumread in order to test his alignment.

If jampidampi is scum, as I suspect he is, scum Maju would be unwilling to switch his read no matter what. He could have just as easily nuked Vayne or one of the lurkers and no one would have cared.

If jampidampi is town, then you would have to subscribe to the view that Vayne is also town in order to hold the belief that Maju is scum. Why would scum Maju recommend that Vayne should be nuked if they were on the same scumteam?

Because I think at least one of Vayne and jampidampi is scum, I cannot endorse the Maju lynch.


Hm. On the other hand, town MajuGarzett would want to nuke his own scumread (VA), not your scumread (jampidampi).

Town MajuGarzett could do either, I think. An unconfident Town Maju would rely on other people's reads because he doesn't trust himself to be good enough at the game. He might also think that if he listens to others, people might back off the lynch on him. A confident Town Maju would go with the VA lynch.

I just don't see any reason to believe that Maju is an experienced, confident player.


I guess it goes like this (MG and VA likely not scum together - MG and jampidampi likely not scum together):

Option 1
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 2
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 3
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 4
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like
A) if we lynch MajuGarzett, we should save jampidampi
B) if we lynch VayneAuthority, it's arguable if we should save jampidampi or not

I'd really like some input on this since I have conflicting feelings on which of these options is correct.
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 11 2013 17:42 GMT
#2269
I officially voted for MajuGarzett. I think I will only change it if suddenly an insane train for FirmTofu starts.
I had a good night of sleep.
austinmcc
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6737 Posts
July 11 2013 17:42 GMT
#2270
On July 12 2013 02:40 geript wrote:
@Austin. Imma go take a lunch break and get the oil in my car changed. Mind reading up on FT. You seeing what I'm seeing or am I just being me?
I'll take a peeky.
Fe fi fo fum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:43 GMT
#2271
On July 12 2013 02:39 austinmcc wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:26 geript wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:21 austinmcc wrote:
Read through, not entirely processed.

I don't think someone being immune one = them being town. I actually thought Onegu was crumbing some kind of radiation medic, he seemed to know how radiation worked, how it killed, but claimed no nuke. That role seemed very townie to me.

For no raisin, I'm assuming that with some of these roles that exist in multiples, some of there were assigned to scum. But if we start seeing 3 people claiming 48-hour unstable nukes, immune ones, defense grids, etc. then I think it's ALMOST a listcheck saying someone in that bunch is scum. Immune one a perfectly fine mafia role tbh, if they have any radiation nukes they can drop em on townies OR on a known immune one and use it as extra KP from thereon out, irradiating people.

As best as I can tell...Ace is not nuked anymore, and was given a nuke by an unknown. Maju had a nuke, and used it on jampi? He did not claim it until recently, and did not say whether he has had it the whole time or how it came into being? And also...sentinel nuked DI/XigXag, but did not claim from whence his nuke came? Is that...the nuking story as it sits right now?

You people make me sad.... but I like this post. I had the idea of a using the roles as a listcheck, but I'm pretty sure artanis is a bastard host so it wouldn't be that worthwhile.
Talk to sleeping austin and working austin about that.

Lotta stuff went down in a small period of time. I don't care whether artanis is a bastard host or not, some of these roles most certainly exist on both sides (or people are just fake claiming). For instance, in game where ZERO people have claimed radiation nukes, we have 3-4 people claiming immune one. I read that as some people fake claiming, and an indicator that radiation nukes are a scum (possibly 3P) mechanic.

OP also has to go and say "many types of nukes," which may or may not be artanis getting cheeky, but indicates that there should be more than just nukes and radiation nukes.

I dunno, I found jampidampi's response to rayn's stuff very scummy. I haven't gone back over all this recent maju stuff, but ... I don't think I'd save him if it were me. Don't believe we've got 4 town immune ones, although maybe 1/2 the thread dies of radiation poisoning tonight and we realize it's a bigger mechanic than we thought.

I agree. People are lying about the Immune One claim and we need to address some of these claims. We can't just run around confirming all these people because they claim.

I think jampidampi has the weakest claim and SnB comes up at a close second for worst claim. The only reason I'm a little hesitant to say SnB is lying is because he really had no reason to claim if he was scum. It unnecessarily draws attention to himself.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:45 GMT
#2272
On July 12 2013 02:41 Xatalos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:26 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:19 Xatalos wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:15 FirmTofu wrote:
I am now going to address the wagon on Maju. I'm not really convinced either way(I have a null read on Maju) and I think Ace would be a much better lynch target.

There is a part of my interaction with Maju that pushes me towards a town read that I would like to mention. Maju said he wanted to lynch Vayne, but I specifically forced him to consider switching his best scumread in order to test his alignment.

If jampidampi is scum, as I suspect he is, scum Maju would be unwilling to switch his read no matter what. He could have just as easily nuked Vayne or one of the lurkers and no one would have cared.

If jampidampi is town, then you would have to subscribe to the view that Vayne is also town in order to hold the belief that Maju is scum. Why would scum Maju recommend that Vayne should be nuked if they were on the same scumteam?

Because I think at least one of Vayne and jampidampi is scum, I cannot endorse the Maju lynch.


Hm. On the other hand, town MajuGarzett would want to nuke his own scumread (VA), not your scumread (jampidampi).

Town MajuGarzett could do either, I think. An unconfident Town Maju would rely on other people's reads because he doesn't trust himself to be good enough at the game. He might also think that if he listens to others, people might back off the lynch on him. A confident Town Maju would go with the VA lynch.

I just don't see any reason to believe that Maju is an experienced, confident player.


I guess it goes like this (MG and VA likely not scum together - MG and jampidampi likely not scum together):

Option 1
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 2
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 3
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 4
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like
A) if we lynch MajuGarzett, we should save jampidampi
B) if we lynch VayneAuthority, it's arguable if we should save jampidampi or not

I'd really like some input on this since I have conflicting feelings on which of these options is correct.

Saving jampi should be independent of the decision to lynch. Supposing we lynch Maju, letting jampi die gives us insurance against option 3 & 4.

Also, with SnB's claim, I don't really see how you can still endorse the lynch on Maju.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
July 11 2013 17:46 GMT
#2273
On July 12 2013 02:40 geript wrote:
@Austin. Imma go take a lunch break and get the oil in my car changed. Mind reading up on FT. You seeing what I'm seeing or am I just being me?

We are of one blood, ye and I.
If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
Alakaslam
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
United States17336 Posts
July 11 2013 17:47 GMT
#2274
On July 12 2013 02:42 Koshi wrote:
I officially voted for MajuGarzett. I think I will only change it if suddenly an insane train for FirmTofu starts.

I think this shall happen.

If you think Elon Musk is a Nazi, it is because YOU radicalized him!
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:50 GMT
#2275
I am not afraid of dying. Lynch me if you have to. If it gets people believing the sincerity of my claims and actions, then I am all for it.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
Xatalos
Profile Joined January 2011
Finland9675 Posts
July 11 2013 17:52 GMT
#2276
On July 12 2013 02:45 FirmTofu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 12 2013 02:41 Xatalos wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:26 FirmTofu wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:19 Xatalos wrote:
On July 12 2013 02:15 FirmTofu wrote:
I am now going to address the wagon on Maju. I'm not really convinced either way(I have a null read on Maju) and I think Ace would be a much better lynch target.

There is a part of my interaction with Maju that pushes me towards a town read that I would like to mention. Maju said he wanted to lynch Vayne, but I specifically forced him to consider switching his best scumread in order to test his alignment.

If jampidampi is scum, as I suspect he is, scum Maju would be unwilling to switch his read no matter what. He could have just as easily nuked Vayne or one of the lurkers and no one would have cared.

If jampidampi is town, then you would have to subscribe to the view that Vayne is also town in order to hold the belief that Maju is scum. Why would scum Maju recommend that Vayne should be nuked if they were on the same scumteam?

Because I think at least one of Vayne and jampidampi is scum, I cannot endorse the Maju lynch.


Hm. On the other hand, town MajuGarzett would want to nuke his own scumread (VA), not your scumread (jampidampi).

Town MajuGarzett could do either, I think. An unconfident Town Maju would rely on other people's reads because he doesn't trust himself to be good enough at the game. He might also think that if he listens to others, people might back off the lynch on him. A confident Town Maju would go with the VA lynch.

I just don't see any reason to believe that Maju is an experienced, confident player.


I guess it goes like this (MG and VA likely not scum together - MG and jampidampi likely not scum together):

Option 1
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 2
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 3
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Option 4
MajuGarzett
VayneAuthority
jampidampi

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like
A) if we lynch MajuGarzett, we should save jampidampi
B) if we lynch VayneAuthority, it's arguable if we should save jampidampi or not

I'd really like some input on this since I have conflicting feelings on which of these options is correct.

Saving jampi should be independent of the decision to lynch. Supposing we lynch Maju, letting jampi die gives us insurance against option 3 & 4.

Also, with SnB's claim, I don't really see how you can still endorse the lynch on Maju.


Yeah I guess that's true. I'm pretty sure 1-2 of these 3 are scum, definitely not all 3 though, so it's the safest move to kill 2 of them and very likely get at least 1 scum. That, in turn, would greatly benefit finding the remaining scum. With that in mind - not very sensible to save jampidampi.

You mean that strongandbig's claim makes jampidampi more likely scum and thus MajuGarzett more likely town?
"The opportunity to secure ourselves against defeat lies in our own hands, but the opportunity of defeating the enemy is provided by the enemy himself." - Sun Tzu
VayneAuthority
Profile Joined October 2012
United States8983 Posts
July 11 2013 17:52 GMT
#2277
yo there is clearly not 4 immune ones in this game that are all town sided, if by some chance I actually get lynched today you have an easy lynch pool for tomorrow.

No fucking way in hell are there 4 of them, and there are very scummy people in that pool
I come in for the scraps
Koshi
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Belgium38799 Posts
July 11 2013 17:53 GMT
#2278
On July 12 2013 02:52 VayneAuthority wrote:
yo there is clearly not 4 immune ones in this game that are all town sided, if by some chance I actually get lynched today you have an easy lynch pool for tomorrow.

No fucking way in hell are there 4 of them, and there are very scummy people in that pool

You won't get lynched today. That's close to impossible.
I had a good night of sleep.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:53 GMT
#2279
On July 12 2013 02:52 Xatalos wrote:
You mean that strongandbig's claim makes jampidampi more likely scum and thus MajuGarzett more likely town?

That is correct.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
FirmTofu
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1956 Posts
July 11 2013 17:55 GMT
#2280
I've got to run to class. Hopefully, town gets its head screwed on straight before I return.

LISTEN TO XATALOS
He knows what he is talking about. He is extremely likely to be town. He is playing in the best interest of town.
I lie a lot when I'm town. I never lie when I'm scum.
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