Catch 22 Mafia

On June 21 2013 11:14 slOosh wrote:
What happens if Marv is scum?

On June 21 2013 14:45 yamato77 wrote:

This is the kind of thing I expect out of a scum Shiao.

On June 21 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you agree you were saying something just for sake of saying something?

On June 21 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:


When have you played with yamato that has given you this impression?

On June 22 2013 00:15 marvellosity wrote:


Ok, but basically as far as I can tell you said bullshit with no basis. I like to think my mafia memory is pretty decent even in games I've not played in, and I can't really remember you two playing together much, if at all.

So where I'm at is that you said some bullshit to passively-aggressively say that yamato was 'looking' scummy, without even actually saying he was scummy.

On June 22 2013 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:

The case on Oats is bad for sure. I'm just trying to figure out if it's scum!GK or town!GK doing this. You seem to be sure of him being scum because you have voted for him. It does not matter if GK has done this as scum, the question you did not answer is do you have evidence that he has not done this as town? Is your meta-case valid or not?

On June 22 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:

My problem is that you are voting for GK based on meta, because he once made a bad case against someone as scum. Guess what? Townies make bad cases too, especially early on in the game. I am not saying i think GK is town, but you seem to be so sure he is scum because of this meta you are describing, especially when you are under attack from some people now.

If you are going to make a meta case at least get your facts straight. Look at Les Mafia, look at GK's case on me and tell me that the case GK made can only come from a scum!GK.

On June 22 2013 01:33 goodkarma wrote:


This list is the very definition of "easy targets." And why are you in list form dishing out multiple null reads?

On June 22 2013 02:17 goodkarma wrote:
In B4 null.

On June 24 2013 09:08 goodkarma wrote:



I'm inclined to agree with you Hapa.

The more telling thing there is that Cora has a mod-confirmed RB, and having soft-claimed blue, I find it much more likely scum would feel inclined to do this than town.

I agree on Oats too. I honestly don't have much more to say there.

Those on the DP wagon are still likely town. So that leaves you, me, Adam, and Shao.

Everything you've done recently has me inclined to believe you're town. You are just soooo much involved in trying to solve this game I find it very hard to believe you're faking it as scum.

Adam also I believe to be town, as he shows an active involvement in the game.

I'm obvtown.

That ONLY LEAVES Shao. By process of elimination, Shao must be the last scum.

##Vote: Shao

On June 24 2013 14:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
Im confused lol.

So you dont think GK is scum but because of elimination, he is the only dude. Is that right?

On June 23 2013 21:37 Adam4167 wrote:


They're my strongest townreads in the game, bar Yamato who would sit either first or second behind Cora. It still blows my mind that DP actually flipped scum, because when I compare both wagons side-by-side I see most of the towniest people all apparently on the wrong side of this lynch, and seemingly a hoard of semi-lurkers got together and offed the mafia godfather. To say i'm perplexed is an understatement.


Cora is town to me because of his general attitude. He isn't afraid to be himself, even if it gets him lynched. Constantly trying to redirect people onto more productive endeavors - trying to get coag to stop tunneling marv who hasn't even posted in the thread yet, for example. He feels exactly the same way he did in Duel mafia, except his reasoning is stronger, which probably stems from playing a few games since then.

Marv is town to me because we seem to be thinking along the same train of thought. The fact that his reads seem to echo most of my own fills me with some confidence that he is probably town. Hes been trying to figure people out from what I can tell and he seems to share my confusion with the current state of the game - that someone I've given a town read on probably has me tricked. His meta read on me is another plus. Hes probably the person most familiar with my scum play after our escapades in Hero mafia and hes got me nailed dead-to-rights - my scum play is wooden, not fluid and I am literally petrified of posting for fear of being accused.

Hapa feels town because hes actually posting and engaging people. In duel I defended scum hapa for over a cycle before common-sense finally set in that I was defending him even when he wasn't defending himself. His willingness to engage me as soon as I joined the game, and again tonight, was more than I ever got out of him in Duel. Bottom line is if his post count drops off and he becomes withdrawn in the thread, hes scum - I don't see that from him here. He has one of the biggest filters in the thread and hes quick to interrogate people if he doesn't understand what they're saying.

On June 24 2013 07:54 Adam4167 wrote:
Rayn, the reason you cant tell who I suspect to be scum is because I don't know that myself. Ill walk you through my current thought process.

As per this post:


I don't consider anyone on the DP wagon to be a viable lynch for tomorrow, so I strike them off my list.

I then take out the people I feel are town who were on the GK wagon - Cora, Hapa, Marv.

This leaves me with 4 names: Yourself, ShiaoPi, GK and Oats.

I liked your hustle on D1, so I feel most confident that you're town out of this bunch, so you come off. Oats is being a right shit, but most people seem to think hes town for it, so I move him to the maybe category. This leaves me with either GK or ShiaoPi. I doubt they're both scum together due to their actions on D1, so unless we're dealing with a 3 man scum team of DP, Oats and one of these two, I've already messed up somewhere in my logic. This leads me to conclude that either my town reads on the GK wagon are wrong, or that the scum are on the DP wagon and bussed him yesterday.

I sincerely do not think the scum team bussed yesterday, for that they threw away an exceptional scum player with probably the best role to suit his play style. So I take a look at the 3 people I called town on the GK wagon with me... and all I see is town.

I cant manufacture scum reads that I don't have. So this is where i'm at. I hope to have a better understanding of what actually happened D1 after the KP starts flying around the place. Where to tomorrow? Resolving the GK and ShiaoPi situation looks as good a place to start. I don't get a strong scum read off either of them by examining either of their filters. I don't find the cases that either of them put forward yesterday to be all that compelling either. Hence my comment on seeing what they did and how they did it.

On June 24 2013 15:17 Oatsmaster wrote:
town reads are the easiest thing to fabricate as scum because you know you are right.
Also speculation. Which are basically those 2 posts.

On June 24 2013 15:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
i like doing stuff like that as scum cause its easy to make a pretty long post that doesnt really say anything.
Like that post says people are town, then its left with you and GK. Then since you both cant be scum, someone else in his townreads is scum. BUT THEN HE SAYS THEY ARE ALL TOWN.
SO ITS NOT USEFUL.

On June 24 2013 15:28 Oatsmaster wrote:
but i just said why the posts you pointed out arent townier.
:/

On June 24 2013 08:54 Hapahauli wrote:
Right now I think I'm between lynching GK and Shiao.

Adam's play has seemed fairly genuine to me. It's a bit of a gut-read, but one I'm comfortable with for now.

On June 24 2013 08:57 Hapahauli wrote:
Yeah dude, I agree with you.

Oats is town. You don't have to preach to the choir.

On June 24 2013 08:59 Hapahauli wrote:
As for who to vote, I'm not placing anything until I hear what they have to say.

Despite the fact that we're ahead, lynching the last scum can be extremely difficult (harder to draw connections, especially when two scumbuddies die early). Best to take this one calm and slow.

On June 24 2013 10:07 Hapahauli wrote:
@ GK

Is Shiao really the only scumread you have in this game?

Because "I agree with all of you regarding your town reads, Shiao has to be scum" is a bit hollow.

On June 24 2013 10:28 Hapahauli wrote:


Can you convince me that Oats is town again? He keeps trying my patience.

On June 24 2013 13:55 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote Shiao

Not getting the bad vibes from GK

On June 24 2013 15:24 Adam4167 wrote:
Mhmm, this is exactly what I was afraid of.

I do not think a scum ShiaoPi would be giving me a town read of right here. Nor was I expecting GK to do it when he did, if he were actually scum.

Something fucking fishy going on this game.

On June 25 2013 04:44 Hapahauli wrote:


Yeah, I was wondering why you had your secret vote on Yamato yet were voting GK at the end of Day 1

On June 24 2013 08:11 goodkarma wrote:
@Corazon:

From the OP:

"Overview: This is a closed setup. There are no standard notifications (RB, save, hit) in this game and there will be full role reveal on death. Passive abilities and factional KP cannot be roleblocked. The town win condition is to eliminate all anti-town players."

So either you are lying, or the host is.

On June 25 2013 06:43 Hapahauli wrote:


Wait wut?

Just to clarify terminology:
Offensive JK = trying to Roleblock someone (usually to block factional KP)
Defensive JK = trying to save someone from a NK

Now obviously it doesn't make very much sense for GK to offensive JK Yamato. However nothing precludes him from Defensive JK'ing Yamato. At that point in the game, Yamato was obv not-scum since he was on the DP wagon. While GK mentioned Yamato as a null read early in the game, most of his analysis structure in the past two days basically assumes that everyone on the DP wagon is town (including Yamato).

That being said, JK'ing Yamato is both convenient for the purposes of a fake-claim, and suboptimal (given Ange was the clear save target on N1).