On July 01 2013 01:31 slOosh wrote:
Show me
My stance on Oats D2/N2:
On June 25 2013 17:40 Adam4167 wrote:Sloosh, here is my solidified post as to why I think Oats is scum. First, look at Oats attitude towards the GK ragequit post.
He goes from:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 10:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont think gk's post is alignment indicative, hapa immediately unvoting is REALLY FUCKING ODD.
Martyring isnt alignment indicative, and if gk stays alive to lylo, is he benefit to town? no because even as town he gave up.
SO KILL HIM.
I don't think its alignment indicative. Add in casting suspicion onto Hapa for a legitimate unvote and also apparently knowing that GK gave up 'as town'. To:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
Hapa, I just saw what I feel is a scumclaim. A SCUMCLAIM.
A SCUMCLAIM.
In 10 minutes. His justification is:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
I changed my mind hapa, I currently think that town would not have martyred in the best way to not get himself lynched.
Like all the other people selfvoting havent been so thought through.
I don't think a townie would ragequit in a way that makes himself look this townie, therefore its a scumclaim. Read that again if you have to. I do not buy this explanation one bit.
Look at his attitude towards me. He has been hammering me since I got in here, and utterly refuses to listen to anything I put forward about why I am not scum, nor does he listen to why other people think I might be town. I gave a legitimate response for why I was not playing up to my Duel mafia standards, for which he had no rebuttal. He then uses the same argument again as a reason I am scum when discussing with OO. This kind of blatant disregard for anything coming out of your targets mouth is scummy. You know they're making a point that you cant argue, but you keep harping on it anyway. The one time he shows some form of insecurity in his read towards me? The post he votes me in. That is scummy. If you're sure I'm scum, as he damn well appears to be, drop your vote, call me scum and start convincing everyone else of your viewpoint. Instead, its this:
Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 10:53 Oatsmaster wrote:
##vote adam
Because the last time as you have quoted I tunneled people, against many people, they flipped town. Is it like that again?
"Last time I tunneled someone to death against what everyone was saying they flipped town. Is that happening again?"
This attitude does not gel with voting someone. He's apparently reconsidering yet voting to kill me in the same post. Inconsistent. Scummy.
I already went over this before but ill go over it again. I called him out for not having a vote for me. He felt insecure and the need to correct that perceived wrong so he slapped his vote down as soon as he could. One minute later, he's saying "Votes dont matter man", so why did he vote in the first place if they don't matter! He realized he made a mistake and tried to downplay it. If he felt votes didn't matter, he would have responded to my first post with "it doesn't matter now, ill vote you later in the day after the discussion is over", but that isn't what happened.
On June 25 2013 11:18 Hapahauli wrote:
No Oats isn't scum.
This is so absurdly inconsistent and spazzy that it has to be town.
Going to look through Shiao/Adam one more time.
On June 25 2013 11:13 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 11:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
I changed my mind hapa, I currently think that town would not have martyred in the best way to not get himself lynched.
Like all the other people selfvoting havent been so thought through.
Could you rephrase this sentence please Oats? I don't understand.
Right now I'm still finding myself siding with Oats over Adam. Oats is right in that the things that Adam are bringing up aren't that substantive. The only thing against Oats is this GK thing, but I can guess a town motivation which would fit with Oats, so just waiting for him to say it I guess.
In anycase I have to bounce for now.
On June 24 2013 08:51 Coagulation wrote:yep oats is town. this isnt new.
lets talk about coraz.
Poll: Coraz - Bad or Scum?Bad (8)
89%
Scum (1)
11%
9 total votes
Your vote: Coraz - Bad or Scum?
(Vote): Bad
(Vote): Scum
After persisting for a while longer, I step off my oats tunnel because its starting to shit up the thread and get senseless.
On June 26 2013 11:21 Adam4167 wrote:
Piles and piles of WIFOM.
Alright. This is getting us absolutely nowhere. I propose a deal to you. We both came to the same (correct!) conclusion on ShiaoPi. We take one day of the next cycle where we do not attack each other. We go through everyone else in the game and try to come up with SOMETHING that isn't both of us slinging shit at each other.
If after that day we still have nothing, we happily go back to voting each other and then town can flip one of us. Deal?
My read on oats D3 onwards:
On June 26 2013 12:31 Adam4167 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:26 Hapahauli wrote:On June 26 2013 12:24 Oatsmaster wrote:
I think hapa is an idiot/bad but meta and rayn makes him town. I guess when I cant say why I think his play is weird im being paranoid. Blehhhh..
So hapa, why am I scum?
It's not even that I think you're scum at this point. It's that I have such a hard time believing that anyone else could be scum.
Like on behavior, this conversation gives me town vibes with both you and Adam. If so, then who's scum?
Do we spite-lynch GK tomorrow then cross our fingers?
My thoughts exactly. This conversation is actually flowing quite naturally.
So then I consider maybe a traitor that inadvertently bussed DP on D1 without knowing it. But does a roleblocking traitor even make sense?! Someone roleblocked Cora and they're not claiming it.
Something hinkey is happening in this game, I felt it on D2 when Shiao and GK both looked town and im getting it again now.
In the above, I start to consider that he is legitimately town and my tunnel was completely wrong.
Day 3 starts, Hapa dies. Then oats gets bumrushed by the entire thread.
On June 27 2013 09:16 cDgCorazon wrote:
##Vote: Oatsmaster
We need to lynch one of my targets now.
On June 27 2013 12:12 slOosh wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
yup :/
bleh, Im inclined to believe hapa's town read on you for the moment adam.
Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 11:44 Hapahauli wrote:
sloOsh not only hammered DP, but has came across as really townie through his scum-hunting efforts
ObviousOne was not only targeted by DP and Rayn, but voted DP himself. And nothing about that wagon looked like a bus. Not to mention that OO has come across as fairly townie (which is why he wasn't lynched D1 in the first place)
So who's left - you, GK, and Adam.
And tbh, I just want to lynch into all 3 of you consecutively and win.
Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 12:49 Hapahauli wrote:
Even sloOsh - he hammered DP and has shown many times more the engagement in scumhunting and posting than I've ever seen him do as scum.
Show nested quote +On June 27 2013 10:55 Oatsmaster wrote:
So today its sloosh and OO. The person with the least contribution will get lynched today.
Jumping around with no consistency, dropping all prior scumreads to pick up new ones with no reasoning, basically going with anyone who might be lynched.
##Vote: OatsmasterAdam if you have specific questions, feel free to pick at my brain.
On June 28 2013 02:31 goodkarma wrote:
Before you go "I don't want this guy at LYLO," maybe you should visualize how the rest of the game might transpire first? Like who are you going to lynch and when? Hapa was discussing coming up with a plan (if I recall correctly anyway... filter-diving too much effort.). Maybe that's what scum feared most?
In any case it makes the game much easier if truly scumteam didn't bus day one. That means you lynch Adam, Oats, and me in whatever order you want and you win. I'm still inclined to run with this scenario for the time being though idk maybe it's wrong. Of those the guy who probably would be most likely to not concede in a lost scumgame would be Oats.
##Vote: Oats
On June 28 2013 03:07 Coagulation wrote:
##vote oats
To which i've now flipped my opinion, due to my discussion with oats the night before:
On June 27 2013 14:55 Adam4167 wrote:
Cora, I'm pretty sure oats is town.
I need you to keep an open mind today because I've just come across something very important.
On June 27 2013 15:12 Adam4167 wrote:
I'm going to be honest here, as much as I may not gel with Oats playstyle, the discussion that the 3 of us were having yesterday would be very hard to fake as scum. It was freeflowing, and neither of them felt on edge or like they were withholding anything.
I don't think hes it.
If I were scum and he were town, why would I dig my heels in over this? I'd sell him up the river for calling me scum earlier in the game. Furthermore, I spent a majority of this cycle trying to move the vote from Oats who posted this:
On June 28 2013 10:12 Oatsmaster wrote:
Who I want at Lylo?
Me
Adam
Coag
Then I lynch adam for the win.
You see, this is kinda useless.
To GK, who's had previously said this:
On June 25 2013 09:53 goodkarma wrote:
Kinda a pain, as that means between Hapa, Oats, Adam, Shao, you need to determine one you absolutely believe to be townie in determining the last scum. Sadly, I would say Adam is someone I like more than the other three right now.
What possible scum motivation could I have for trying to defend someone who's just openly declared that they'd lynch me at lylo as opposed to the inactive who's flirting with a modkill that's just called me the most townie of the lynch bait. There isn't one. As scum, I'm taking GK to the next round there every day of the week. I pushed to keep Oats alive (YOURE WELCOME), because I wanted ACTIVE posters that were still here and playing the game.
My read on ShiaoPi:
On June 24 2013 15:24 Adam4167 wrote:
Mhmm, this is exactly what I was afraid of.
I do not think a scum ShiaoPi would be giving me a town read of right here. Nor was I expecting GK to do it when he did, if he were actually scum.
Something fucking fishy going on this game.
On June 25 2013 13:36 Adam4167 wrote:I find ShiaoPi to be more likely town for two reasons:
His interactions with Rayn and his posting on D2.
Rayn shoots down ShiaoPi's case against GK, pretty handily dismisses it because it is poorly applied meta:
Show nested quote +On June 22 2013 00:37 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 22 2013 00:32 ShiaoPi wrote:On June 22 2013 00:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 22 2013 00:10 ShiaoPi wrote:sorry went off for a round of dota
On June 21 2013 23:14 raynpelikoneet wrote:
So you agree you were saying something just for sake of saying something?
The post I did was in order to verify if my impression of yamatos play is shared by everyone or at least some of the other players. so no that post was not only for the sake of saying something.
On June 21 2013 23:14 marvellosity wrote:On June 21 2013 23:08 ShiaoPi wrote:
Because that is what yamato does (at least in my memory)? Yes, it does not help anyone to determine his alignment right now, but what did you expect, words of wisdom in every post I do on day 1? It's just something to keep in mind.
I am thinking you are blowing this way out of proportion
When have you played with yamato that has given you this impression?
Cannot pin point it to a certain game right now, would have to look in his game history again, but it is more I always feel like wanting to shoot him for some posts he does. take it as you want, I am really dont feel like like searching for specifics right now.
Now on GK:
The case on oats is bad since I have not seen anything really alignment indicative from oats right now. gk is just using oats playstyle against him to look contributing and scumhunting, usual scum motivation stuff. His play also feels a lot like I swear this is normal mini mafia, which just ended recently and where I and gk were scum. (minus the inactive replacement shenanis)
Also gk is most surely familiar with oats' play so taking this "easy" target is something I think is clearly scummotivated
The case on Oats is bad for sure. I'm just trying to figure out if it's scum!GK or town!GK doing this. You seem to be sure of him being scum because you have voted for him. It does not matter if GK has done this as scum, the question you did not answer is do you have evidence that he has not done this as town? Is your meta-case valid or not?
I think mainly based on gut feeling and comparison with the last game as scum we had together. Cant remember the last time goodkarma rolled town with me playing as well.
Also you just objectively judged that the case is terribad, so why do you need so much meta? Meta is much more of a helpful factor in my opinion not necessarily the argument to get somebody lynched. So I see gk doing that case on oats which is scummy as shit and then compare it to his play in I swear, I think its similar so it reinforces my scumread on him...
To be honest I don't even know what your problem is
My problem is that you are voting for GK based on meta, because he once made a bad case against someone as scum. Guess what? Townies make bad cases too, especially early on in the game. I am not saying i think GK is town, but you seem to be so sure he is scum because of this meta you are describing, especially when you are under attack from some people now.
If you are going to make a meta case at least get your facts straight. Look at Les Mafia, look at GK's case on me and tell me that the case GK made can only come from a scum!GK.
.
I don't think this is scum v scum talk. If it were, shutting down his case effectively forces him to go and jump on another bandwagon, increasing the chances he's going to draw attention to himself. Why would you bother? this case may have taken off, it almost did. GK almost died D1.
On D2, ShiaoPi comes in less confident in his read on GK:
Show nested quote +On June 24 2013 14:31 ShiaoPi wrote:Ok I am caught up now. But mostly just skimmed the thread.Will be doing some rereading/filterdiving next. let me just post this on GK right now, since it looks like most of you want to lynch either him or me.
On Goodkarma:
I am really really torn on him right now. On Day 1 I was pretty sure that he was scum. Currently not so much anymore, there are still posts, which make me go, well that's scumGK, but there is also stuff that makes me want to think him town.
First off on the sucm tally we got his entire scumhunting effort. I don't remember playing a game with him where he was town, but I kept hearing from several people in I swear and here that he needs time to get started but is then a good townplayer in his own right. I just do not see it here. His cases have been pretty fucking trash. But posts like these:
On June 24 2013 09:08 goodkarma wrote:On June 24 2013 08:51 Hapahauli wrote:
I'll also state that I think Cora is really, really townie.
There are certain people that are off-limits for scum to attack (obvious townies, etc), because scum fundamentally want to blend in.
So when Cora is going off and being suspicious of players like OO, sloOsh, and Ange, that's 100% paranoid townie. Suspicions like that attract attention like crazy, and scum really just want to play along.
I'm inclined to agree with you Hapa.
The more telling thing there is that Cora has a mod-confirmed RB, and having soft-claimed blue, I find it much more likely scum would feel inclined to do this than town.
I agree on Oats too. I honestly don't have much more to say there.
Those on the DP wagon are still likely town. So that leaves you, me, Adam, and Shao.
Everything you've done recently has me inclined to believe you're town. You are just soooo much involved in trying to solve this game I find it very hard to believe you're faking it as scum.
Adam also I believe to be town, as he shows an active involvement in the game.
I'm obvtown.
That ONLY LEAVES Shao. By process of elimination,
Shao must be the last scum.
##Vote: Shao Also exist. They are pretty townie (even if wrong on me) on the mentality side of the game. Because largely based on elimination I also ended up with only him left, if we just go with face value of how things went down so far. Ergo if we do not assume some crazy plays with bussing on d1 for no reason etc.
Having said this I am perfectly fine to trade with GK, so just lynch me first to get my town flip and then go kill him.
Just wanted to post this before I go rereading
Even so far as to say he uses a townie mentality. Put yourself in his position here. There's probably two other viable lynches today other than himself. GK and Me. Oats hes already called town previously. I don't think scum are going to come back into the thread, call their main tunnel all game probably town, then look at the next obvious target (me) and say that he's giving off town vibes. It just doesn't leave you any options.
He freely admits that this doesn't leave him any solid targets, agreeing with my 'being lostness'. What is his endgame with this strategy if he's scum? He's just going to call everyone town and hope they forget about him? We're all probably getting lynched at some point, its just a matter of what order, as GK has pointed out.
His willingness to reexamine Sloosh and OO is townie thoroughness/paranoia after he concludes i'm possibly town and he doesn't like any of the options in this group. As was his paranoia towards hapa.
I think what happened here was both GK and ShiaoPi came into this game with their previous scum adventures fresh on their minds, and got a case of confirmation bias on each other and went tunneling. I did the exact same thing with Cyber_Cheese in Mafia L after our first scum game.
I do not think he is scum.
I call ShiaoPi town. Firstly, I highlighted this in this paragraph that ive quoted already, but what the heck reason would I have to do this as scum? I've just called every other lynch bait mislynch around me town. That only serves to limit my options for later potential mislynches.
Then..:
On June 26 2013 05:07 Hapahauli wrote:
##Vote ShiaoPi
Last scum...
I don't think it's Oats. It's definitely not GK.
It might be Adam, but his posting just sounds so terrible in his scum-games, and he seems interested in figuring out the game right now. Even if he's barking up the wrong tree with Oats, his suspicions are basically what happens when someone plays with Oats the first time.
I think it's Shiao. His recent push on GK (in spite of the towniest martyr ever) is troublesome. Also his transition from "fuck me I'm lost I guess I'll vote GK cause he's my only possible lead" to -----> OMG GK claimed JK he scumscum doesn't strike me as organic.
On June 26 2013 05:14 ObviousOne wrote:
##vote ShiaoPi
Coag, lend me your vote. I know you be readin'.
On June 26 2013 07:37 slOosh wrote:
Bleh, I can't do it. Nothing is satisfying in my head. Going with a gut call, not sure what to expect:
##Vote: ShiaoPi
The town turns on him and kills him anyway.
The general state of the game:
On June 28 2013 12:56 slOosh wrote:
Dude, morale is a huge part of the game. Maybe it's your personality, maybe it's because you replaced in, maybe it's because you are on the chopping block, and maybe it's the vice versa for the rest of the crew, but being lazy doesn't necessitate scum.
And lynching based off activity levels is foolish. And lynching based of arbitrary levels of effort is also foolish.
Since when does something like motivation trump reason? I bet you, if you asked all the players after D2 that if you could choose to win or lose the game by simultaneously lynching into Hapa / Adam / Oats / GK, every single person would have taken that deal. And I bet if you ask each person that same question now, they would still take it.
What's more to give? What's more to do? It's all said and done. If you want to off GK first, honestly, I'm not that adverse to it.
On June 28 2013 12:53 Adam4167 wrote:
OK, We've gone over that logical line a thousand times and it keeps bringing us back to the same place. The place where our reads conflict with our logic.
If everyone on the apparent confirmed DP wagon is town, then use that 'confirmed' status instead of posting once a day! If everyone on there is town, theyll have nothing to hide about us poking around and asking questions.
Instead I am getting "NO YOUR GETTING LYNCHED SOON, STOP QUESTIONING THE RULING ELITE AND DIE QUIETLY"
Its bullshit.
The fact that I have continually challenged the idea that the scum was in the initial pool of 'non confirmed' and have been fighting against this idea since about day 3. I can tell you exactly what I would be doing right now if I were scum. I'd have been feeding you guys mislynch after mislynch of all of these lynchbaits, not calling them town.
I don't think I have taken an easy position since I got here. Its tiring and frankly I'm spent. Sick of arguing that someone is town only to be proven right with each successive mislynch. Add on top of that, the complete lack of critical thinking or ability to reconsider what everyone is taking for granted. Hence why I peaced out.
EPT
