EPT*gasps*
I Swear This Is Normal Mini Mafia
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
*gasps* | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
/out /replacement Axle you should play <3 | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I mean I will play since game is full if axle doesn't, but... I'd rather not right now. Feel free to lynch me for being wishy-washy | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
A couple quick things.: Lynching Jampi for being lurkish, with no other real second candidate, was very bad. We're now left with little information to go off of next lynch cycle, so let's please not do this day 2... As far as who Hapa should "vigi" with his mayor powers, I haven't seen anyone so far that looks very scummy. In many ways, I'd rather you hold off the shot. If you can find two people you're confident are town, it's very likely at least one of them will survive until tomorrow. It's not like should you die the shot dies with you, as is normally the case with vigis and one reason why vigis like to shoot on night one. But if you absolutely must vigi someone tonight, I'd hit one of the lurkers that is likely not going to be any easier to read in upcoming days: Sylencia or Stutters. I would much prefer Sylencia over Stutters given I do believe from the past games we've played I could get some grasp of Stutter's alignment later this game. I'll give everything a good read-through tomorrow. Good night. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Regarding Stutters: Stutters typically comes in and provides insightful analysis on a rare basis as town. I'd say his posting right now, as well as his posting specifically on Shao, has me leaning slightly town on him right now. Regarding GM: GM as WaveofShadow the Japanese trollbot, is a wishy-washy kind of guy when he plays town. I've seen similar behavior here. He's not behaving with the degree of certainty he did in his scumgame last game. He's proven that he is a tryhard when he's scum, so I'll be continuing to assess my read on him and not underestimate him if he is scum. However, I don't believe that as scum he'd be as comfortable bringing attention to himself with trolling... For those reasons, I'm leaning town on him. Regarding BH: You seem to have a few people you'd like to have shot. But I'm having some trouble understanding your thought process... I see lots of shitslinging and dinner-eating, but very limited analysis... I'd say your play here does resemble The Game in that you seem to be just going completely aggro on players with unproductive tunnels. I believe you even referenced this once or twice, like how you'd rather tunnel Hapa as scum or something. But I remember how you tunneled ThePeashooter in that game, and he was hardly a town leader or anything... Scum BH loves to shit up threads, and that's exactly what I see here. I'm leaning scum on you. You proved to me last game you can play like complete shit as town, but the way you're playing this game is similar enough to your The Game scumgame I believe there's a decent chance you'll flip red. Regarding Syl: As far as more lurkerish players, there's Syl who's been sheepish this game to the exclusion of much of any analysis. He's flown completely under the radar, and if he shamelessly continues to do so I believe he'd be a decent vigishot. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 12 2013 16:15 Sylencia wrote: @GK: Why are you suggesting to waste a dayvig shot on me when the only reason you have is that I've been lurkier than others? You literally say before your 'analysis' on me that you think BH is scum and yet somehow I'm a more decent target for shooting? Ok.. I said you were flying under the radar, and that when you are here you seem to be content to agree with a stance here and there and not really add anything. It's not about your "lurkiness," but what you aren't doing when you are here. I'm assuming from what Vayne has said he plans to use his vig shot today. Therefore, we need to determine two scum candidates for this cycle. None of this really is that difficult to understand. While you're here, would you mind providing an opinion on anything? Or more specifically, perhaps elaborate on your top scumread? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 12 2013 22:35 Sylencia wrote: If Vayne wants to use it as a shot, why aren't we lynching a top suspect first, and shooting during the night? Unless there's some sort of claim that can only be checked by death, I don't see a reason why it should be rushed so. (I'm not reading the power wrong, right?) My top read at the time you posted was ShiaoPi, as I said I agreed with a lot of the points made by Stutters. I made that clear end of last night. I haven't fully digested ShiaoPi's response yet, but if I'm wrong on that account, my previous statement feels good: For catching up, only having an analysis of 4 players (2 of which seem like afterthoughts), and a weak scumread based a lot on meta is pretty bad. I've heard from BH enough that you have slow starts, but idk define slow start, how long is it going to take to get the ball rolling, and out of all the players how is it that you've got thoughts on 2 lurky players over someone with a lot more points to consider such as Grav/WoS and Oats? About GravityMan - I am also missing what is obvious about him that makes him scum according to BH, but the only point i"ll take from it is that he is the only one who disrupted Hapa's mayoral campaign with a sort of smear campaign against him. You can make reasons for why he did it if he's scum (potentially take power, and make hapa a suspect), but since that failed, would scum have chosen Hapa as the target of the NK over Vayne to clearly show that? Food for thought, seeing as that was the only real 'major' event that happened regarding mayoral campaigns. First of all, the entire point of mentioning a good vigishot for Vayne is we should be treating this cycle like a doublelynch, as Hapa originally suggested. Even if Vayne opts to wait until the night to shoot, by discussing this now we have that much more information to go on in later cycles. For that reason, everyone should be doing this. So you can't be bothered to review the latest posting of your top scumread, and you fall back on proposing a lurker scumteam if your top read convinces you he's town??? Explain to me how that isn't scum-motivated behavior? Further, I provided a read on Grav in the post you're referencing, so it's clear you aren't reading the thread very closely. This is the kind of disinterest I'd expect from scum. I still believe you'd be a good vigi shot. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 12 2013 23:05 Oatsmaster wrote: KILL GK. KILL IT WITH FIRE. He never talks about me, shiao pi/vayne/axle. I wanna kill GK, and then BH if he continues being a useless sack of shit. I didn't have time to read the game until last night, and by the time I was done and posted, like no one was around in thread... The reason I haven't really talked to you this game is you haven't provided any real case points for why I'm scum, or anyone else for that matter... You seem content to capslock and spam the word kill 2-3 times, which is entirely unhelpful and unproductive. If you truly believe I'm scum, make some casepoints so I have something to actually discuss with you. I am here the next few hours, and it looks like people are actually in thread right now, so if you or anyone else have something to discuss I'm here. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 13 2013 09:33 AxleGreaser wrote: Have you looked at what happened with the D1 voting and what do you make of it? There's very little to make of the day one voting... There was no real controversy. Jampi was just mislynched... The only situations where you'd get any meaningful information out of a day one lynch arise when there's in fact two candidates and one's scum... And as for scum motivations, I believe I already explained that in detail in the quote you've presented, as well as in my followup to Syl... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 13 2013 01:33 Blazinghand wrote: Oats if you want to make a meta case on me, reference specific games and show how what i'm doing is to my scum meta. Show that it's red and not orange on the venn diagram. I play a lot of different ways as town, and a lot of different ways as scum, but it's still possible to read my meta. you can't just say "this bh seems scummy" without evidence. There hasn't yet been a real meta case against me this game, and there won't ever be one, because I'm not scum. But I welcome you to try to make one, just so you realize i'm town. Why are you relying so heavily on your meta in your defense? If you're town, why not play to help us rather than resort to some kind of half-assed defense like this? You yourself have stated that you are a bit of an adoptive player (in that you are fully capable of changing up your playstyle...), so how can we completely trust your meta in the first place? If we set meta aside, you've been objectively scummy all game. And if we include meta, I've already discussed how your play here was similar to The Game. You still either are defending yourself or shitting up thread. I have yet to see a single real case from you. You don't have the excuse that you were busy like you might have in Les. You've been quite actively doing nothing all game. I would fully expect that town BH would have presented something of value by now... Instead we have a guy that's shitting up the thread with meaningless tunnels, joke posts, and demonstrating an active interest in defending himself while contributing nothing. This is exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from scum BH. ##Vote: BH | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 13 2013 10:06 Oatsmaster wrote: You have 6 posts GK..... And I already said why your first post was scummy, and then you come back in the thread and say that all town should have 2 reads bla bla. Why are you shitting on town and not being useful? Do you still think BH is scum? Why is syl scum and not stutters? GK's attitude towards me is that Im town. Do you think Im town GK? Your first question is very rhetorical... I'm being very useful. It's you that are asking useless questions... Further it should be clear from my recent posting what I think about BH. As for stutters, my read on him was slight town. Since that time, he's said some things that are odd to me. I'd say he's more of a null read now. Like I don't understand how he instantly assumes Vayne fakeclaimed at one point when there's been no counterclaims, and how later on he's brought up I should be vigishot immediately for lurking even though it's clear I post in the evening, and the day cycle is only halfway done. These are actions that very well could be scum-motivated, but I need to see him post a bit more to be sure. As I've said, town Stutters has moments where he'll post stuff that's actually insightful. I felt that was what I was seeing with his posting on Shao, but that's really the only point this whole game he's been like that. I do think you're town Oats. And the only reason I believe that is looking at your past scumgames I can't visualize you drawing so much attention to yourself as scum, even if your play has been objectively scummy and bad. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 13 2013 10:29 Oatsmaster wrote: yes yes im here. and no GK, SHOW ME where his play is similar. It's a pattern of behavior more than a single quote. I mean, I could grab multiple dickish comments from BH and throw them in thread, but that's not going to show to you anything. It's who he's pushed and how that matter, and that similarity is something that you're going to have to do some digging of your own to see. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Your assessment of Vayne isn't entirely unreasonable, but the aggressive fashion in which you did it feels off to me. Also if this was what you were thinking, why didn't it come up much sooner? On June 13 2013 08:04 Stutters695 wrote: I was thinking at the hallway point of the day but given how little interaction he's had period a flip of either type really wouldn't guarantee any info. It also lets us plan around worst case scenario (3 scum team) and a mislynch today+nk+vig shot would knock us down to six total which would be endgame. I think we can hit scum today but I'd rather plan around the worst case, especially since GK is so coinflippy. Stutters, would you mind briefly explaining how as town you would propose I get vigie'd if it indeed is true that we'd be at endgame tomorrow in your above scenario? You mention me to be coinflippy, yet were anxious earlier to vig me anyway... This doesn't make much sense to me if indeed the situation is as dire as you describe it. Finally, Shao was your top scumread, but that was quite a while ago. Is he still your top scumread now? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 13 2013 12:50 Oatsmaster wrote: WHY ARE YOU NOT TALKING TO ME GK. WHY. so sad  . Some of your posts have my head hurting... Like this one: On June 13 2013 12:34 Oatsmaster wrote: You think hes town too, your vote is a pressure vote. Whatever. People do shit that may not help town win the game, but they are town. I mean like grush and stuff. BH can help us win, he isnt choosing to do so either cause he has pms, or is scum. Going for the first option at the moment. The thing is scum even moreso do shit all the time to not help town... And then you go onto say that he either has pms or is scum... Like I don't think BH is physically capable of having PMS, so he must be scum? Seriously though, you keep insisting he's town while providing no justification. And when I provide both meta and non-meta reasons why BH is likely scum, you choose to: 1) Ignore anything I say that is non-meta 2) Say you're too lazy to look into The Game to see similarities to his play here... So really we don't have anything to discuss until you pull your head our of your arse and consider the merits of what I've said, so don't act so sad about it... | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
The "he's emotional as scum" casepoint from BH was super-weak since I suspect he'd behave the same way regardless of alignment. He hasn't had the ironclad certainty I would expect from a scum GM. That being said, he needs to tell us who he'd prefer to have shot and not martyr himself. While in general martyring is a very scummy thing, I see the martyring coming from GM as also being townie. I remember how he played his scumgame, and I very highly doubt he'd make a play like that as scum. It makes him look atrocious, and scum GM would be a little more careful than that. I'm looking at what happened and it blows my mind how little consolidation there was. I believe scum are among those who failed to consolidate: Syl, Shao, Stutters, and Oats. Regarding Syl: Syl has done nothing but sheep all game long. He clearly isn't interested in reading the thread. Somehow he still believes that when I proposed we vigi him it was a "lurker shot," when in fact it's that he has failed to make any real stance of his own all game. The closest he came was with Axle, who after a lack of interest, he opted not to pursue further. He felt strongly enough about it to vote for him, yet couldn't be bothered to push his case when it didn't immediately gain traction... This is a guy that's been skirting by on thread sentiment and shown almost no interest in solving the game. It also stood out to me how he would say he thinks BH is town, yet do nothing to stop him getting lynched. That is clearly scum-motivated behavior. He was in-thread near the deadline, so he could have easily voted GM if he indeed strongly felt that BH was town. He has in the past stated he'd rather have GM than BH lynched, so why wouldn't he try to do anything to stop his townread from dying? BH is known to have the ability to lead as town, which is something we sorely need... There was every reason for scum to want town BH to die over GM. Regarding Shao: Shao has shown what I perceived to be an active interest in the game. However, his latest vote makes literally no sense to me from a town perspective. Why on earth would you vote Syl, someone who's clearly not going to get lynched, last minute like that? I don't understand the town motivation for that. We really needed to lynch scum this cycle, and instead of consolidating, Shao votes Syl. It just doesn't make sense to me from a town perspective. Regarding Stutters: Stutters did little to take a stance on who he'd vote the entire day cycle. All I can find is he's "waiting for BH to get back" before placing his vote. This is hands-down the safest thing you could do as scum. Sit back and wait to see where thread sentiment goes before jumping on a candidate. That being said, I felt his read on Vayne was reasonable from a town perspective, as was his discussion of why he was so eager to vig me. That he literally didn't do anything at all for many hours and missed the deadline indicates to me he might have been legitimately busy, since town Stutters does shit like this. But he's now on my list of scum candidates, by process of elimination. There is definitely possible scum motive behind his actions. Regarding Oats: And then there's Oats. His play has my head spinning. He's non-stop wanted me lynched, defends BH with little justification, and now is asking that we choose between shooting me and GM. His only justification for GM is that he's bad, which hardly shows how he believes he's scum... He's spent half the game now spamming thread to lynch or shoot me while hardly discussing at all any other candidates. I'm having trouble visualizing how even as a world-class bad townie he could be playing like this. I may have WIFOM'ed myself in a corner believing that he's town as he's never been this brazen as scum. But when you fail to try to save the guy who you clearly have this townread on by consolidating, I just can't understand how any kind of townie would do that. Looking at who was actually on the BH/GM wagons at the end of the day, I find that they all are in my town column. What I'm left with are those who've refused to consolidate. The scumteam is among: Syl, Shao, Stutters, Oats With the strength of my scumreads in that order. We should be vigi'ing Syl today, and not GM. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 14 2013 13:41 VayneAuthority wrote: add this to the list of things that makes him scummy GK. I dont necessarily know if I can vig him right now unless there's decent consensus but I wouldn't see him as a terrible shot. Trying to use real life to make some one look guilty is usually scum motivated. Whatever you decide for the shot, you should be the one making the call. "Thread consensus" can become skewed by scum, whereas if you're town and follow your own read, you shouldn't have such problems. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
On June 14 2013 14:42 Sylencia wrote: Also GK - how does me moving my vote change anything, I highly doubt you were going to move your vote from BH to GK, and Shiao wasn't going to vote with me either so the result doesn't even change. I had higher hopes that people would want to lynch you though, but no one listened to Oats and I It became pretty apparent near the end of the lynch cycle that it was either BH or GM. As you've stated, no one else was interested in mislynching me. And of those two, you clearly outlined which you'd prefer, yet instead of switching to GM and trying to save BH, you stuck on me. The BH/GM wagons weren't so far apart in votes that you couldn't have succeeded in changing the lynch from BH to GM if you truly felt BH was town. But instead of consolidating, you did nothing to try to stop BH's lynch and just let it happen. This should already have been clear from my original post... Would you mind discussing the other points I made about you in that post, most importantly a town motive for sheeping the entire game, with the exception of Axle who you didn't have the conviction to stay on for any duration of time? And how you as town could be so disinterested in the game that you mistake my suspicions of you as lurker-oriented when they aren't? Which especially doesn't make sense if I'm your TOP SUSPECT? | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I still believe we should be looking at Syl, Shao, and Stutters tomorrow. Regarding Vayne: He claimed cop, and there's been no counterclaims. There's certainly more than one scum in this setup, so we should leave him alive for now until we have a better picture of how plausible his claim is. | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
Without a doubt Axle (especially) and Shao did some of the heavy lifting for scumteam this game. But I definitely believe that my scumgame also had its place on the team. "Replacement" Shenannies I definitely did make a point of "milking" my status as replacement. I bet that Marv comes in here and says that's unsportsmanlike, but it was definitely the right move as far as I was concerned. I replaced in at night, and immediately I had identified Hapa as the only real threat to getting me lynched early. BH I felt would be sore from misreading me last game. And everyone else I felt wouldn't be taking the lead in determining who should be lynched, especially with Axle and Shao looking so "townie." As such, I knew that when Hapa had been removed I'd be in a spot of relative safety. And as for Oats's suspicions of me from my first post, I was never really worried that he'd get me lynched. He may have been right about me, but I felt it was for the wrong reasons. To be sure I probably would have had reads out sooner, but my first post would have been the same regardless of alignment. And what's more, if he was serious about lynching me he should have been at the very least spamming his case in addition to saying I should be killed a bajillion times. I'm under the impression that town kind of lost sight of why Oats wanted me dead so bad, and what that meant is he kind of came off as a bit of a mad-man. As for his case, it literally came down to "omg your first post," which certainly wasn't that hot. But I hadn't read the game, only skimmed it. And as a replacement I felt compelled to full-read it before taking any real stances. Like that is something I would have done regardless of alignment. I'll definitely try to keep up with any game I might replace into in the future so that such shenanies don't occur again. Soft Pushing BH Mislynch: Because of how handily cheesed town was this game, people seem to overlook the implications of looking super-townie for scum after a mislynch or two. Like town tends to be pretty emotional and fickle, and will easily turn on you the moment it's clear that you were steering a mislynch. While Axle and Shao were pushing their own wagons, I made a cute little case on BH and sat my vote on him. When it became clear that no one cared to move their votes around to prevent the mislynch, I decided to sit there and literally afk lurk from thread. I felt BH looked townie enough that he shouldn't be mislynched close to the end of the day cycle, and as such I just let it happen. It was far easier in my mind to lurk it out, than to explain how I actively pushed a mislynch the next day. I mean it was pretty clear the results were the same. The main objective I had as scum was to see to it that the town was lacking any kind of leadership ability whatsoever, so while BH was playing pretty poorly, I was moreso worried about the discussion he could draw than of any of his actual analysis (if that makes any sense). Post-BH Lynch: Setting myself up for possible Bus and Buddying Vayne It was pretty clear that the game was almost, if not already won, at this point. However, I was aware that if night actions went the wrong way things could fall apart. I made the decision to bus Shao a bit, as I was pretty certain that if it came to choosing between the two of us I'd probably get lynched. And Shao would come off as looking very townie in the process. If somehow we didn't get mayor the next day, "town cred" was (even at the expense of me) all our scumteam needed, because if we ever got mayorship town would be changed from a LYLO situation to a losing situation. In the scenario where it lasted another day (without us getting mayor), I felt getting me lynched was a way to secure the mayorship. In the background, I was thinking of NK'ing Oats that night. He was not really a threat as far as getting us lynched, but then again he did look townie and kept talking. Above all else, I wanted a lurky-town without direction, so he seemed like a reasonable target. But then we saw in-game Syl came out with that great post calling all of us out. On top of that, he in-thread suggested he wasn't a vanilla-townie. We took this to mean he was blue, but turned out he was 3P... We had a big argument in scum QT over whether he was RB-er lol. Thankfully, Stutters RB'ed him for us though it really didn't even matter if our shot went through. And with Vayne, it was pretty clear he'd be an easy mislynch the next day. If anyone were to look at his prior townplay, it's pretty obvious he isn't the most transparent guy with his thoughts and actions. He definitely wasn't playing stellar this game, but if you compare this game to his scumgame, you really should have been asking yourself if he'd attract attention to himself the way he did. The Oats shot was especially bad, but kind of a towntell in some ways. Like he could easily have asked for more town feedback, and taken an opportune shot as scum. And in the process, looked a little less suspicious. The big thing though, is there were no counter-claims to his cop claim. And sure he could have faked it, but why would you take the chance when you haven't flipped any scum yet? Like it was pretty much LYLO, so if you don't get everything right you're finished anyway. So why not seek to lynch the other scum first, and see if the RB-er even exists? As town, people tend to suspect those that suspect them. This is a bit subpar imho, but it is something that happens just as an emotional aspect of this game. As such, I figured I might as well suggest Vayne wasn't a good target. Going against thread sentiment in that way I felt made me look townier. And on top of that, lynching Vayne was flat-out bad given the circumstances. It kind of surprised me how much town wanted him lynched tbh. I mean hate on my lurkish scum-play all you want, but in the end I somehow came off as townie enough at least to Vayne to get the mayorship and effectively end the game day 3. I also had WoS fooled, which doesn't really surprise me given that he has some lowly opinion of me as "lynchbait" which I fully exploited this game. I also "townread" Stutters a bit because it felt natural to do so (I mean I do this a lot with him). Honestly, though, his early play really didn't warrant it. It came down to choosing my enemies. I didn't want to go down hard on too many townies, and townreading a few definitely helped me make enough friends to survive until the end of the game. Regarding Our Overall Scumplay: Syl was able to spot our whole scumteam. What that should show to all of town is that we were definitely all spot-able. There was a profound degree of bias running in this game, as in people would set in their mind who was town and never reassess their reads. Most notable here is Axle, who everyone seemed to believe was town. The lesson that should be learned here is that effortfulness =/= towniness. Like Axle spent pretty much half the game half-heartedly pushing Wave, and no one seemed to care... He asked a lot of questions, but never really seemed to spend a whole lot of time actually pushing a case. This was pretty much exactly what Syl was saying, and it was spot-on. Shao also had some pretty telling moments. Last-minute voting a candidate that had literally zero chance of getting lynched was certainly one of them... As was how wishy-washy he was in taking a stance on me. But more telling than any of that in my mind was activity. Axle and Shao were both guilty of this: post-day one they posted far less content. Which if they were paragons of town makes no sense, since town needed them more than ever at that point. They literally coasted by on day one reputation for most of the game. That's not to downplay their scumgames, they were incredible. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Thanks to the hosts for putting up with scumteam submitting day 2 actions three times (lol), for putting up with my wishy-washyness in replacing in, and for putting together a fun game  And thanks to my scumpals for playing such crazy good scumgames <3 | ||
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goodkarma
United States1067 Posts
I'm aware of how objectively scummy much of my play was, and how someone like Hapa and Marv could have easily spotted it and come down on me. But I had in consideration that such strong scumhunters weren't in the game, so I could get away with playing in this kind of way. No doubt next time I play scum it will be a little different. But I am a little frustrated with how difficult it's seemed to be for town to win in recent history so maybe this post will provide some insight for you guys. Honestly, I much prefer playing town to playing scum as I enjoy solving the puzzle of who's scum moreso than deceiving people (something I really don't like to do at all). Although, I'd be lying if I said I didn't get at least a little satisfaction out of beating 2/3 the scumteam that trounced me in Les Mafia  | ||
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