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On June 13 2013 08:13 VayneAuthority wrote:
Alright I guess thats believable enough. If you fed me some bullshit I was going to shoot you on the spot, seemed like you were referencing something from a scum QT or something
lol seriously?
Why would I reference a scum QT to the fucking host in a game? Like...it couldn't even be called a slip or anything...it was me blatantly talking to Corazon.
Come on, VA.
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On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not.
Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely?
Why can't you just come out and call me scum?
Am I the only scum in this game?
Come on Axle. Something concrete please.
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On June 13 2013 08:18 VayneAuthority wrote:
wat? Prome talked to us all the time in Les Mis. Trying to make it seem like something stupid isn't helping you. It could have easily been a slip up.
Isn't 'helping' me? Who else thought this was suspicious? I wasn't worried, but you trying to make it sound like it's something I should be worried about is kinda stupid.
Anyway, enough of this.
VA who else is scum? Last I figured Sylencia/Stutters or both but it's been a while since I looked.
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On June 13 2013 08:39 VayneAuthority wrote:
I've called pretty much everyone scum at one point this game, I don't have any good reads. Either they are lurking or we are just spamming, not much to go off of. Obvious night kill, unsuspicious day kill. There's nowhere to go from here really.
Stutters' aggressiveness in this thread is disconcerting I suppose, I don't even know who sylencia is he posts so little.
Oh yeah since I'm not a smurf anymore I can mention:
Apparently Sylencia really IS lynchbait as he says, which is what makes me wary of him as a scumread.
Again all of this relies on meta but I just know he's telling the the truth about this. Doesn't preclude him from being scum, and he does tend to lurk quite a bit as either alignment..
When I get the chance in a few hours I'm gonna dive into Syl/Stutters. I remember thinking Stutters has a good chance of flipping red.
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On June 13 2013 08:42 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:28 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. Obvious lists? Do you trust those lists entirely? Why can't you just come out and call me scum? Am I the only scum in this game? Come on Axle. Something concrete please. No I don't trust those list entirely, which is why early on D1 I asked hapa about him giving out so many town reads and saying EZ. Hapa is town, he flipped town, but i still don't trust his list as he can be wrong. The language used was euphamism to do as stated and avoid getting in low post counters face. Grav man: Why can't you just come out and call me scum? I can. Thats the easy bit, trying to be right is harder. This time i dont understand you: "Come on Axle. Something concrete please." do you want more concrete reasoning and analysis for why i think your scum GM: "We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions." or do you want me to overexaggerate the degree of certainty that i have that your motivations in posting inflammatory things was so that BHs ego would get him to piss off enough people that you could mislynch him? The problem is there are towny reasons to push people as well. I need to work out if what you did was for those reasons.
For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic.
You say that I'm trying to get BH mislynched though, what makes you sure he's town?
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Sorry Corazon 
Axle, I answered you here.
On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:
[quote]
[quote]
Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one.
In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game.
Has BH been as considerate?
I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here.
Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town.
I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me.
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On June 13 2013 09:45 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:35 GravityMan wrote:Sorry Corazon Axle, I answered you here. On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286[quote] One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game. Has BH been as considerate? I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here. Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town. I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me. I think I prefer to do what you wanted me to do a little while ago. Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:13 GravityMan wrote:
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
I'm fine with either for now, but I will not be letting this go. I have seen nothing remotely towny about BH's play right now and that fact that you see as such or are making a preflip association based on the fact that you think I'm scum is not good.
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On June 13 2013 10:23 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:50 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 09:45 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 09:35 GravityMan wrote:Sorry Corazon Axle, I answered you here. On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:
[quote]
I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems.
GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it.
What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure."
Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something.
So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state.
if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread,"
then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time?
To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. In fact, I have been nothing but forthcoming considering everything asked of me all game. Has BH been as considerate? I REALLY don't understand what is so hard for all of you to see here. Oh and Axle, by definiton, you saying 'mislynched' means you think BH is town. I want to know why you think he is town. It has nothing to do with what you want from me. I think I prefer to do what you wanted me to do a little while ago. On June 13 2013 08:13 GravityMan wrote:
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
I'm fine with either for now, but I will not be letting this go. I have seen nothing remotely towny about BH's play right now and that fact that you see as such or are making a preflip association based on the fact that you think I'm scum is not good. My views are not preflip association based. They are also not 100%, but I would need to either see more or understand the cases against him better before i'd lynch today. yeah he went all "dinner" "dinner" and hapa fake shot him... and he and oats are being he and oats. What I dont yet see is the scum agenda and intention.
Why does he need some grand agenda?
His 'agenda' is he has done dick all the entire game. This assists scum because it doesn't help the town find the scum.
He has done his 'BH and Oats' thing to shit up the thread because his 'intention' is to shit up the thread and waste town's time.
Pretty simple in my opinion.
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Now that people are actually starting to listen to me regarding BH's activity and what he has not done this game, I expect him to come back around his usual time (a couple hours from now-ish) and actually put some effort forward because he will realize he is in real danger of being lynched.
What people need to keep in mind, is to look at what he does when he comes back and how he does it. Is he actively assisting the town or not?
I will do my best to keep an open mind myself.
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Oats:
On June 13 2013 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:
yeah actually let's get rid of this guy. He might be the mayor and maybe he claimed cop but he's scum imo
##vote VA
Can you explain the town motivation for this?
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You know what's funny?
People suspecting Vayne for fakeclaiming reminds me of when people suspected me of fakeclaiming in The Game because I claimed rolecop and then was subsequently RBed every night thereafter.
Want to know who set up that line of suspicion?
Geript.
BH, you don't want to be Geript, do you?
But seriously, think of it in terms of what is more likely. Is scum more likely to take a needless gamble and fakeclaim cop and the lie about getting RBed all game so they don't have to do anything else, when there could be a counterclaim and they get fucked? Or is it more likely that Vayne is simply town and claimed when it wasn't quite necessary?
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On June 13 2013 11:43 Stutters695 wrote:
I don't think we should kill Vayne but to say he's definitely town for any reason outside of the claim is wrong.
I agree.
BH doesn't.
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On June 13 2013 12:09 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 10:46 goodkarma wrote:On June 13 2013 10:06 Oatsmaster wrote:
You have 6 posts GK.....
And I already said why your first post was scummy, and then you come back in the thread and say that all town should have 2 reads bla bla.
Why are you shitting on town and not being useful?
Do you still think BH is scum?
Why is syl scum and not stutters?
GK's attitude towards me is that Im town. Do you think Im town GK? Your first question is very rhetorical... I'm being very useful. It's you that are asking useless questions... Further it should be clear from my recent posting what I think about BH. As for stutters, my read on him was slight town. Since that time, he's said some things that are odd to me. I'd say he's more of a null read now. Like I don't understand how he instantly assumes Vayne fakeclaimed at one point when there's been no counterclaims, and how later on he's brought up I should be vigishot immediately for lurking even though it's clear I post in the evening, and the day cycle is only halfway done. These are actions that very well could be scum-motivated, but I need to see him post a bit more to be sure. As I've said, town Stutters has moments where he'll post stuff that's actually insightful. I felt that was what I was seeing with his posting on Shao, but that's really the only point this whole game he's been like that. I do think you're town Oats. And the only reason I believe that is looking at your past scumgames I can't visualize you drawing so much attention to yourself as scum, even if your play has been objectively scummy and bad. lynch him Now. Now. GK, by any measurable standard. You are lurking. You have 1 page of filter and its been a day and a half or more since you replaced in. You arent really pushing anything. You just post stuff and never prod or whatever. Like this post. There is no followup. You are sitting in the background and not doing ANYTHING to get your read lynched/vigged. its scum. KILL HIm.
By these standards you should be lynching BH.
True he's not lurking but the rest applies. Has BH pushed Vayne? Hell at least GK is offering reasons for his scumread.
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On June 13 2013 12:32 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 12:30 Oatsmaster wrote:
but the problem WoS, is that I think BH is town.
Why. Why is he town? How is he helping us win this game?
Quoted for filter.
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LOL
How is it I think he's town?
Because I said I think there's a chance he may come back and do something now that he realizes he'll get lynched?
Depends on what that something is. I most certainly do NOT believe he is town, but I believe even if he was, this is the only way in hell we get him to do anything.
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On June 13 2013 12:44 Oatsmaster wrote:
dont lie to yourself. It only makes things worse.
so lynch GK GM?
You know very well that is not happening.
Especially now that he's started playing the game.
Which...ONCE AGAIN, is more than I can say for BH.
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On June 13 2013 20:57 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 09:07 goodkarma wrote:Catching up with the thread now. The first thing I'd like to address is this Syl post: On June 12 2013 22:35 Sylencia wrote:On June 12 2013 16:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 12 2013 16:15 Sylencia wrote:
@GK: Why are you suggesting to waste a dayvig shot on me when the only reason you have is that I've been lurkier than others? You literally say before your 'analysis' on me that you think BH is scum and yet somehow I'm a more decent target for shooting? Ok.. I said you were flying under the radar, and that when you are here you seem to be content to agree with a stance here and there and not really add anything. It's not about your "lurkiness," but what you aren't doing when you are here. I'm assuming from what Vayne has said he plans to use his vig shot today. Therefore, we need to determine two scum candidates for this cycle. None of this really is that difficult to understand. While you're here, would you mind providing an opinion on anything? Or more specifically, perhaps elaborate on your top scumread? If Vayne wants to use it as a shot, why aren't we lynching a top suspect first, and shooting during the night? Unless there's some sort of claim that can only be checked by death, I don't see a reason why it should be rushed so. (I'm not reading the power wrong, right?) My top read at the time you posted was ShiaoPi, as I said I agreed with a lot of the points made by Stutters. I made that clear end of last night. I haven't fully digested ShiaoPi's response yet, but if I'm wrong on that account, my previous statement feels good: On June 12 2013 01:24 Sylencia wrote:
@Oats: If GK doesn't have anything in the next 24 hours, I'd be willing to put money on a lurker scum team - something like him + stutters (maybe +1 if there's a third). The only one that sticks out is Blazinghand for causing chaos for no reason but idk if that's his playstyle - please fill me in there. Reasoning is everything has run too smoothly and there haven't felt like there have been any sort of misdirections so far. We had a blue claim on day 1, so having some sort of mayor takeover would be a pretty good idea in Day 1 for scum to take, as they can reliably target Vayne with no consequence. If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, everyone just says someone protected him, and no one suspects the mayor. None of this happened, so unless Hapa is scum, everyone active seems town. Any problem with my reasoning? For catching up, only having an analysis of 4 players (2 of which seem like afterthoughts), and a weak scumread based a lot on meta is pretty bad. I've heard from BH enough that you have slow starts, but idk define slow start, how long is it going to take to get the ball rolling, and out of all the players how is it that you've got thoughts on 2 lurky players over someone with a lot more points to consider such as Grav/WoS and Oats? About GravityMan - I am also missing what is obvious about him that makes him scum according to BH, but the only point i"ll take from it is that he is the only one who disrupted Hapa's mayoral campaign with a sort of smear campaign against him. You can make reasons for why he did it if he's scum (potentially take power, and make hapa a suspect), but since that failed, would scum have chosen Hapa as the target of the NK over Vayne to clearly show that? Food for thought, seeing as that was the only real 'major' event that happened regarding mayoral campaigns. First of all, the entire point of mentioning a good vigishot for Vayne is we should be treating this cycle like a doublelynch, as Hapa originally suggested. Even if Vayne opts to wait until the night to shoot, by discussing this now we have that much more information to go on in later cycles. For that reason, everyone should be doing this. So you can't be bothered to review the latest posting of your top scumread, and you fall back on proposing a lurker scumteam if your top read convinces you he's town??? Explain to me how that isn't scum-motivated behavior? Further, I provided a read on Grav in the post you're referencing, so it's clear you aren't reading the thread very closely. This is the kind of disinterest I'd expect from scum. I still believe you'd be a good vigi shot. The fact I can actually rely on something which I believed to have been true from the night before shows the actual lack of contribution that you had brought to the table to this point. If I say you're scummy during N1, and you do nothing to change that view in D2, you're saying it's scum oriented for me to say I still think you're scum? Also yes, turns out I ended up thinking you did an analysis on GK which is yourself (it made perfect sense at the time somehow -_-). In any case: - Axle: How has this guy been able to fly under the radar this entire game? As far as I've read there's been very little suspicious cast on him, he's been questioned about his reads in which he's tip toed around the problem: Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. It alludes to him suspecting GM (pretty much confirmed to be saying he suspects GM next post), but he doesn't push it at all. He said he doesn't want to shut a lurker down, but GM is far from a lurker, so why wouldn't he push a case there? If there's someone in this game who is a prime example of being neutral on pretty much everything, it's Axle. BH has been doing a lot of talking without a lot of pushing, but I'm pretty sure that Axle is a better option over BH. After a slow first half of Day 1, I think if BH was scum he'd easily adapt into a less active role in the game. He brings up points I don't think anyone else would be doing otherwise (possible VA fakeclaim etc.) and just by doing that I feel it's enough to justify keeping him around for longer. Without BH this town will be a dead town, with little to no deviation in thoughts. GK I'm still willing to put my vote on him, idk how slow a start can be, but even his vote on BH didn't have any substance to it.
This is terrible honestly.
Axle seems like the towniest town that ever towned, and this case misrepresents him entirely. I'm not sure why people are letting this go.
He votes him based on the fact that Axle has been flying under the radar, and that he supposedly calls me a lurker? (hint: he's not referring to me)
That's his entire reasoning. The whole thing in that one post.
Why is Sylencia getting away with that exactly?
I mean I'm not a fan of Axle right now because he's tunneled me for about half the game but at least he's doing it in a reasonable way' I don't see scum pushing a read like he has with the analysis that he's done, and I've played with scum Axle before.
Now I have to get to Axle's case on me....sigh.
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On June 13 2013 22:18 AxleGreaser wrote:@everyone Time is passing. We need to have some wagons of Justice. Here is mine ##Vote GravityMan toLynch The case is not that hard but there are potentially lots of details. The case on blazing hand is wrong and weak, and making a bad case is not scum indicative. What is scum indicative is trying, to manufacture one, by provoking the responses that you need in advance of having the read. GM has been trying to provoke BH for rather a long time. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18859699read this post and decide if you think that was provocative. GM describes the purpose of that as http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875432"For the record, I wasn't trying to be inflammatory necessarily with those questions, I was trying just to see what I could get BH to say and talk about regarding that topic." Go read the above post, he wanted him to answer that why? Was it inflammatory. if there were no examples of what he wanted to talk about why the asking? WHy was he trying to lead him places? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18875124"There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations." prone means they have not happened yet. if they had happened you could just point to those, no need to show the thread what BH is prone to if he has not done it? Why was he trying to lead him places? before the case existed. Bh has in fact for Bh been very restrained. BH was even called out by hapa for being less strident than normal D1 + Show Spoiler [some more of the details] +
Axle, my problem here is you are also misrepresenting everything I do.
The reason I was trying to 'lead' BH to talk about what I wanted him to is the artificial restraints I put on myself. Without the ability to talk about his meta I was forced to get him to talk about how he might act in certain situations so I could then bring it up as an example. I already had in my mind the idea that he was scum here but I wanted to try and flesh out more evidence. Yes it's 'leading the witness,' but it's for a good cause: getting my scumread lynched.
You can call that a scum agenda if you want, but it's not.
On June 13 2013 23:03 AxleGreaser wrote:This post is also interesting Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 01:56 GravityMan wrote:
What makes no sense to me now is how there are only two votes cast and GoodKarma is going to be lynched.
Clearly if it walks like a scum, talks like a scum, and multiple people suspect him like a scum....
BH is still just creating shit about him and Oats.
All he does is counter-accuse people who 'dare' accuse him of being scum because he knows he can get away with it.
He's provided no evidence as to why he thinks I'm scum. STILL.
I have no idea why people are still hesitating on this.
Meta-analysis would be SO GOOD here but I promised myself I wouldn't. Someone else could take a crack at it though if they wanted. It's pretty obvious.
BH you must be absolutely furious that I'm going to get you lynched today, but 'jubs gonna jub,' amirite?
Now I'm supposed to respond to Axle 'cause he's been asking me for a while so let me get to that, and then I'm around for discussion and such. That makes sense if you have just been discussing it in the scum QT. and now you are suppsoed to respond to Axle seeing as he just wont let the question go.... <<< wine that is easy to drink I have tried to find how a towny might have been thinking that would then have them write that. <<< wine that is too hard to drink
As far as not responding to you immediately, I don't really see how that's scum indicative either. This is confiramtion bias and you are simply believing what fits your read of me. I simply said it because it was the truth, and upon looking back through the thread I realized I missed some queries you had of me. Nothing more.
Vote me if you must Axle, but I would recommend you at least look into who else in this game is scum for once, because if I eventually flip town you are going to be completely lost, especially if you think BH is town.
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On June 14 2013 00:48 Sylencia wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2013 00:38 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 20:57 Sylencia wrote:On June 13 2013 09:07 goodkarma wrote:Catching up with the thread now. The first thing I'd like to address is this Syl post: On June 12 2013 22:35 Sylencia wrote:On June 12 2013 16:47 goodkarma wrote:On June 12 2013 16:15 Sylencia wrote:
@GK: Why are you suggesting to waste a dayvig shot on me when the only reason you have is that I've been lurkier than others? You literally say before your 'analysis' on me that you think BH is scum and yet somehow I'm a more decent target for shooting? Ok.. I said you were flying under the radar, and that when you are here you seem to be content to agree with a stance here and there and not really add anything. It's not about your "lurkiness," but what you aren't doing when you are here. I'm assuming from what Vayne has said he plans to use his vig shot today. Therefore, we need to determine two scum candidates for this cycle. None of this really is that difficult to understand. While you're here, would you mind providing an opinion on anything? Or more specifically, perhaps elaborate on your top scumread? If Vayne wants to use it as a shot, why aren't we lynching a top suspect first, and shooting during the night? Unless there's some sort of claim that can only be checked by death, I don't see a reason why it should be rushed so. (I'm not reading the power wrong, right?) My top read at the time you posted was ShiaoPi, as I said I agreed with a lot of the points made by Stutters. I made that clear end of last night. I haven't fully digested ShiaoPi's response yet, but if I'm wrong on that account, my previous statement feels good: On June 12 2013 01:24 Sylencia wrote:
@Oats: If GK doesn't have anything in the next 24 hours, I'd be willing to put money on a lurker scum team - something like him + stutters (maybe +1 if there's a third). The only one that sticks out is Blazinghand for causing chaos for no reason but idk if that's his playstyle - please fill me in there. Reasoning is everything has run too smoothly and there haven't felt like there have been any sort of misdirections so far. We had a blue claim on day 1, so having some sort of mayor takeover would be a pretty good idea in Day 1 for scum to take, as they can reliably target Vayne with no consequence. If he dies, he dies. If he doesn't, everyone just says someone protected him, and no one suspects the mayor. None of this happened, so unless Hapa is scum, everyone active seems town. Any problem with my reasoning? For catching up, only having an analysis of 4 players (2 of which seem like afterthoughts), and a weak scumread based a lot on meta is pretty bad. I've heard from BH enough that you have slow starts, but idk define slow start, how long is it going to take to get the ball rolling, and out of all the players how is it that you've got thoughts on 2 lurky players over someone with a lot more points to consider such as Grav/WoS and Oats? About GravityMan - I am also missing what is obvious about him that makes him scum according to BH, but the only point i"ll take from it is that he is the only one who disrupted Hapa's mayoral campaign with a sort of smear campaign against him. You can make reasons for why he did it if he's scum (potentially take power, and make hapa a suspect), but since that failed, would scum have chosen Hapa as the target of the NK over Vayne to clearly show that? Food for thought, seeing as that was the only real 'major' event that happened regarding mayoral campaigns. First of all, the entire point of mentioning a good vigishot for Vayne is we should be treating this cycle like a doublelynch, as Hapa originally suggested. Even if Vayne opts to wait until the night to shoot, by discussing this now we have that much more information to go on in later cycles. For that reason, everyone should be doing this. So you can't be bothered to review the latest posting of your top scumread, and you fall back on proposing a lurker scumteam if your top read convinces you he's town??? Explain to me how that isn't scum-motivated behavior? Further, I provided a read on Grav in the post you're referencing, so it's clear you aren't reading the thread very closely. This is the kind of disinterest I'd expect from scum. I still believe you'd be a good vigi shot. The fact I can actually rely on something which I believed to have been true from the night before shows the actual lack of contribution that you had brought to the table to this point. If I say you're scummy during N1, and you do nothing to change that view in D2, you're saying it's scum oriented for me to say I still think you're scum? Also yes, turns out I ended up thinking you did an analysis on GK which is yourself (it made perfect sense at the time somehow -_-). In any case: - Axle: How has this guy been able to fly under the radar this entire game? As far as I've read there's been very little suspicious cast on him, he's been questioned about his reads in which he's tip toed around the problem: On June 13 2013 08:23 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:59 GravityMan wrote:
Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions. There is the obvious list, of people who have not contributed much. There is the obvious list of turning Hapas list upside down and saying that. One thing i dont want to do is get all in a low post count townies face, and shut them down. So I wont be doing that. The least clear intention I have is you. I see what "looks" like a tendency to Lynch BH for being BH. I see posts that could well inflame him and make his ego come to the fore as town or scum. This could have been their intention, or not. It alludes to him suspecting GM (pretty much confirmed to be saying he suspects GM next post), but he doesn't push it at all. He said he doesn't want to shut a lurker down, but GM is far from a lurker, so why wouldn't he push a case there? If there's someone in this game who is a prime example of being neutral on pretty much everything, it's Axle. BH has been doing a lot of talking without a lot of pushing, but I'm pretty sure that Axle is a better option over BH. After a slow first half of Day 1, I think if BH was scum he'd easily adapt into a less active role in the game. He brings up points I don't think anyone else would be doing otherwise (possible VA fakeclaim etc.) and just by doing that I feel it's enough to justify keeping him around for longer. Without BH this town will be a dead town, with little to no deviation in thoughts. GK I'm still willing to put my vote on him, idk how slow a start can be, but even his vote on BH didn't have any substance to it. This is terrible honestly. Axle seems like the towniest town that ever towned, and this case misrepresents him entirely. I'm not sure why people are letting this go. He votes him based on the fact that Axle has been flying under the radar, and that he supposedly calls me a lurker? (hint: he's not referring to me) That's his entire reasoning. The whole thing in that one post. Why is Sylencia getting away with that exactly? I mean I'm not a fan of Axle right now because he's tunneled me for about half the game but at least he's doing it in a reasonable way' I don't see scum pushing a read like he has with the analysis that he's done, and I've played with scum Axle before. Now I have to get to Axle's case on me....sigh. I completely understand he wasn't referring to you. I explained that because the lurker statement was irrelevant to you, why would he have to hold back on unleashing any sort of case on you? You don't feel like he was holding back at all when he made that post?
Yes, hence I was asking why he didn't just come out and call me scum instead of pussyfooting around it.
I don't consider that scummy since it was pretty damn obvious where he was going with it. He didn't hold back any case, his whole tunnel has pretty much been the same case.
Why give up your push so easily Sylencia? Is Axle scum or not?
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Your list seems all kinds of fucked up to me.
Why is BH so towny?
How the crap is Stutters townier than Vayne or Shiao?
Like...I just don't follow this.
I'm pretty sure you've moved up to my next target after BH though instead of Stutters.
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EPT
