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On June 13 2013 02:15 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:13 Stutters695 wrote:I helped this many. Since you claimed cop d1, you've: 1. tried to lynch BH for a "scumslip" 2. sheeped Hapa onto Jampi 3. said you wanted to shoot Syl/Myself with no reasoning 4. changed to Gravity, BH, or GK because "one of the afks had to be scum" despite that I was far more inactive than GM or BH. 5. obviously lied about a cop check, said I failed your test yet haven't explained why 6. Tried to get focus away from BH/Oats/GM despite GM and BH being among your recent people you would kill. Literally the only reason I'm not trying to lynch you right now is that you claimed cop. this is absolutely spot on
I'm reluctant to agree but there is one thing in there that does bother me, and it's the lack of explanation for what exactly you were trying to get out of Stutters. Care to explain so we can get the focus back where it needs to be?
What exactly is going to take for me to get people to vote BH with me? And don't say a meta case because there is enough in this game to show he is scum, people are just wilfully ignoring me, JUST for a change.
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On June 13 2013 02:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why are you so angry Vayne.
You claimed cause you caused everyone to think you were scum. Thats the only reason. If you keep blaming shit town, you will never get any better.
This.
Oats y u no vote BH?
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On June 13 2013 02:32 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why are you so angry Vayne.
You claimed cause you caused everyone to think you were scum. Thats the only reason. If you keep blaming shit town, you will never get any better.
who's angry? You guys are bad and I pointed it out. Dont be mad nerd. Not my fault some one makes a shitty case and the lurkers gobble it up. I will never take responsibility for this fail town.
Good mayor right here.
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On June 13 2013 02:34 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:33 Blazinghand wrote:On June 13 2013 02:32 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 13 2013 02:29 Oatsmaster wrote:
Why are you so angry Vayne.
You claimed cause you caused everyone to think you were scum. Thats the only reason. If you keep blaming shit town, you will never get any better.
who's angry? You guys are bad and I pointed it out. Dont be mad nerd. Not my fault some one makes a shitty case and the lurkers gobble it up. I will never take responsibility for this fail town. many years of dota experience have made me very good at telling when people are mad. you sir are mad yea that's why im in my office right now eating and laughing at how retarded you all are. hu3hu3hu3.
O Mayor, who are we lynching today?
I really wish Hapa were alive now that I'm not smurfing anymore. This is so frustrating. Kudos to anyone who knows how to herd a town.
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On June 13 2013 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:
You know what, I actually don't buy VA's cop claim any more. Maybe the real cop hasn't counterclaimed for whatever reason or maybe we don't have a cop. Everything about VA's play stinks.
This is so ridiculous and you KNOW it. Do you honestly think VA has the balls to claim cop as scum in the middle of D1 in a setup like this?
You yourself called him bad towny for this.
Your play is just so abysmally bad. This is all I will say regarding meta and you. Everyone look at how BH played in Les Mafia. He only started to play the game for real when there was a real threat of him being lynched BECAUSE HE HATES BEING LYNCHED. He realizes he is in no danger right now because he thinks I can't get him lynched alone, therefore he plays like shit. There is no way around this: if you think BH is town and you want BH to play the game, vote him and make him DIE. See how he reacts. If you think he is scum, vote for him and make him DIE.
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On June 13 2013 02:44 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:43 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 02:37 Blazinghand wrote:
You know what, I actually don't buy VA's cop claim any more. Maybe the real cop hasn't counterclaimed for whatever reason or maybe we don't have a cop. Everything about VA's play stinks. This is so ridiculous and you KNOW it. Do you honestly think VA has the balls to claim cop as scum in the middle of D1 in a setup like this? You yourself called him bad towny for this. Your play is just so abysmally bad. This is all I will say regarding meta and you. Everyone look at how BH played in Les Mafia. He only started to play the game for real when there was a real threat of him being lynched BECAUSE HE HATES BEING LYNCHED. He realizes he is in no danger right now because he thinks I can't get him lynched alone, therefore he plays like shit. There is no way around this: if you think BH is town and you want BH to play the game, vote him and make him DIE. See how he reacts. If you think he is scum, vote for him and make him DIE. "lynch bh if he's town"
Yup.
If it's the only way to make you play properly I'll do it. It's very easy to switch later on in the day without a tunnely DP third party to push it along. I'm pretty confident you won't do what you did in Les Mafia though, you know why?
Because you're scum.
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On June 13 2013 02:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
if bh gets lynched. #worsttown2013
Worse than the Les Mafia town for the same thing?
If he's town and performs adequately I promise I will unvote him.
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On June 13 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:47 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 02:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
if bh gets lynched. #worsttown2013 Worse than the Les Mafia town for the same thing? If he's town and performs adequately I promise I will unvote him. DP was 3p in les. Doesnt count.
DP wasn't the only one to vote BH in Les, was he?
Note BH already refusing. This feels EXACTLY like Carnival Cruise. Oats you were there. Remember how BH and I fought? Explain to me how this is different.
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On June 13 2013 02:51 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:50 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 13 2013 02:48 Blazinghand wrote:
Look even oats knows I'm town. I guess my read on you is a ringing endorsement huh. I'll take what i can get :3 seriously though if you guys decide to push a policy lynch me because you don't like my style (or in this case, pretend to don't like my style) then that does nothing to help town
Haha you still don't get it, doyou.
It has nothing to do with your style or policy.
You're doing nothing.
You're scum.
That's why you're getting lynched.
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On June 13 2013 02:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont actually remember.
Refresh my memory please.
No. I've already relied on meta too much; it is not how I wanted to play this game. You can have a look yourself if you actually think BH might be scum; if he's already convinced you then don't bother. Your call.
I think at this point I'd honestly be content to be shot by VA if people are unclear about me by the end of the day, if it means that you guys will believe what I have said and lynch BH.
Going to go have some lunch. I'll be around later.
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On June 13 2013 02:52 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:50 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 02:48 Oatsmaster wrote:On June 13 2013 02:47 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 02:46 Oatsmaster wrote:
if bh gets lynched. #worsttown2013 Worse than the Les Mafia town for the same thing? If he's town and performs adequately I promise I will unvote him. DP was 3p in les. Doesnt count. DP wasn't the only one to vote BH in Les, was he? Note BH already refusing. This feels EXACTLY like Carnival Cruise. Oats you were there. Remember how BH and I fought? Explain to me how this is different. oh what's this, a meta case with no comparison to a town game, quotes, or links, despite my super well documented play history? kk
Final thing I will say before I go.
He is relying on the fact now that I have actively stated I will not dive through meta to form a case. I have seen town BH bring up his OWN examples of meta to prove other people wrong in cases like this. He would rather use his own self-confidence and bluffing tactics to get himself through this than very simply prove me wrong, were it possible to do so. He has no desire to display any useful information for the town to read.
Burn him with cleansing fire.
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On June 13 2013 02:56 Oatsmaster wrote:
Um what, I wanna know your view because it affects my read on you.
Also martyring not cool yo.
If people are going to lynch me anyway then I'd rather be shot so you can instead lynch BH. If people are absolutely confused as to why I am pushing BH and still have any lingering doubt that I am not town because of my earlier smurfing.
Call it a last resort, but until then BH is the wagon of justice. Hop aboard.
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On June 13 2013 02:57 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:55 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 02:51 Oatsmaster wrote:
I dont actually remember.
Refresh my memory please. No. I've already relied on meta too much; it is not how I wanted to play this game. You can have a look yourself if you actually think BH might be scum; if he's already convinced you then don't bother. Your call. I think at this point I'd honestly be content to be shot by VA if people are unclear about me by the end of the day, if it means that you guys will believe what I have said and lynch BH. Going to go have some lunch. I'll be around later. the point isn't that oats thinks you're lying (though perhaps he does), but rather, even if your ideas are genuine that doesn't mean you're RIGHT. there's no meta case to make against me. you can't just say the word "meta" and have that be a case. As a guy who writes a lot of meta cases, let me tell you: it's hard work. it requires effort to show what a player's meta is like both as scum and as town and compare that to the current game. you have not done this. If you're wondering why the only player you've "convinced" is VA it's because you haven't put in the work to actually convince anyone. And honestly, if you are in fact town I'd like it if you DID check out my meta. You'd realize I'm town this game and stop pushing me.
I have put in the work. People are ignoring it.
I believe the man with Blazing hands to be scum.
He is far too content to take on those who are unlikely to be able to accuse him in return.
The displays of his ego given so far would seemingly belie that the mayoral campaign should have been perfect for him yet he is quick to back down. His reasoning is the same 'survival instinct' that this VayneAuthority seems to give yet different. I believe that Blazinghand is in actuality worried here about a power grab being seen as a scum trait, much as I was worried about you in the early game.
His relentless attack of the master of Oats seems to ebb and flow with the tide of the thread; that is, he only attempts to waste the town's time by attacking him and causing chaos (as he knows the Oats will react) when it is convenient for scum. Any time a clear mislynch target is not in the crosshairs of the town, jampidampi as example, he is content with thread direction; the exception to this being his quick flip in opinion as jampidampi returned to the thread.
He has had zero useful contribution to the thread beyond what I have outlined above. If he has other suspects in this game I am not sure as to whom they might be. On this he promised more activity tomorrow, however.
I would like to make it known that initially I thought he might be a member of the town until he continued to post and I realized how his perception of himself (or at the very least, the mask he wears so that people perceive as an egotistical being) affects his play.
Some things to note:
I am unconvinced in this Blazinghand's act while seemingly at death's door. I feel I am able to read this Hapahauli quite well at this point in the game, and to shoot someone without any warning whatsoever is not a very mayorly thing to do. The false shot was extremely obvious to me, though admittedly an interesting gambit. However, if the false shot was obvious to me, could it not also have been obvious to a player such as this Blazinghand who could then act in the most town-aligned way possible before his death? He has nothing to lose at this point even if the shot were real because were he actually shot and his aligned were revealed to be red, the players in this game would be likely to ignore his final posts as they could be likened to poisoned wine in two goblets. He still gives no reasoning for his reads even when asked yet people conveniently ignore this.
Blazinghand is content to have me destroyed, of course, but an interesting fact to point out is this Blazinghand's mention that he would rather have me hang from a tree than simply be shot with a bullet, thus wasting one of any town's strongest tools, and an entire day on the wrong target. Yes, the mayor bullet is a strong tool as well, and any member of the mafia would enjoying obtaining it, though perhaps the mafia are content to have it wasted here instead? I am unsure.
On June 12 2013 10:39 GravityMan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 12 2013 10:25 Blazinghand wrote:
hapahauli's reasoning was fine. I agree with it (or at least the part where you're asking weird questions of me and making a show of participating without hunting scum). The issue is that you can't just say "GM shoudl be shot huehuehue hapa is right" and not explain what you agree/disagree with.
Your point that stutter's post is bad/unhelpful/scummy is correct. Your idea that you shouldn't be shot tonight is not.
also the idea that i haven't offered _any_ reason to _many_ of my statements _all_ game is interesting. It's like you want to say I never offer reasoning but you know that's literally false so you try to make some kind of half-assed point. get your shit together GM Let me rephrase it then. You fail to offer sufficient reasoning to a great deal of strong stances that you take until badgered endlessly. I believe you promised reasoning as to why I should be shot or at the very least you told this Hapahauli that you'd be looking into my filter. Lack of a better shot is not a reason to shoot me, and once again, I have shown how Hapahauli's reasoning as to why I appear scummy is false. If you do not like the questions I was asking you in order to divine your alignment, then, I believe the colloquial phrase is: "tough shit?" It certainly made it easier for me to determine how it is you play and how your perceived view of yourself influences your playstyle. There is yet to be postulated one concrete objective reason as to why I am scummy. By anyone. Saying that I have not contributed is purely subjective as I believe I have and again, I have shown as such in previous posts.
Sorry for the spam Corazon. Guess our dreams technically came true, btw, amirite?
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On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time?
To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me.
Can you try and rephrase it?
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On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it.
No need to be snide.
There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations.
Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway.
Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really.
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Axle, who do YOU think is scum?
We haven't had very many reads from you this game at all, just analysis and questions.
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On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it.
What, my dodging of the answering your question? I didn't dodge I forgot you asked.
You want to hear it exactly? I didn't want to go into detail because it's not really related to the game at all and may cause discussion outside of what we need to be talking about (ie give more useless thread-shitting-up fodder to BH).
Do you still want to hear it?
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On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:On June 11 2013 08:00 Hapahauli wrote:On June 11 2013 06:07 GravityMan wrote:
Yes, that would be the post, thank you.
While you are at it, Blazinghand, are you the type to back down when admonished?
Does this Hapahaulli play the role of 'thread police' often? Do you think that this Hapahauli is personally insulted by your play or shamed by it? He certainly does not seem to me ceasing communication. Like none of this has to do anything with scumhunting. BH thinks I'm town - why does it matter what his feelings about my play are? As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset. If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM.
Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it.
Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games.
I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one.
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On June 13 2013 08:08 VayneAuthority wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:01 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:00 VayneAuthority wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset.
If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. your dodging of it for so long doesn't really make me feel better about it. What, my dodging of the answering your question? I didn't dodge I forgot you asked. You want to hear it exactly? I didn't want to go into detail because it's not really related to the game at all and may cause discussion outside of what we need to be talking about (ie give more useless thread-shitting-up fodder to BH). Do you still want to hear it? yea sure why not
Fine but only because you're already voting BH. And if he comes back and goes on an ego trip because of it I'm going to be pissed.
Corazon PMed me randomly and said he had a dream that BH figured out that I was GM in the first few days of the game. I said I doubt anyone is going to figure me out (and no one would have, had I not fucked up). Then a couple days ago I had a dream that BH figured me out (fucking weird).
And then I fucked up and he found out. Hence 'our dreams came true.'
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On June 13 2013 08:13 AxleGreaser wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2013 08:10 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 08:02 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:56 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:20 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 07:14 GravityMan wrote:On June 13 2013 07:06 AxleGreaser wrote:On June 13 2013 02:03 GravityMan wrote:On June 12 2013 14:19 AxleGreaser wrote:Grav man, a number of pages back I posted this to you (before you WoS'd hi) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18868046Even though your posting style has now changed considerably. I am still interested in understanding what the purpose of the questions in that post was. There were rather lot of questions in the post. I am having difficulty deciding which mindset would want to post those and why. I am aware as you already said here why you say you asked them: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18860286On June 11 2013 08:02 GravityMan wrote:
[quote]
As I am not delving into past games to determine alignment, for players I may be having trouble understanding it suits me to attempt to figure out what each player is thinking, capable of, and even feeling in order to determine a specific mindset.
If you find that irrelevant that is your prerogative, however I do not deem it so. One thing I cant marry with your statement of why that is that you did not follow those up? Since you posted that, you have again pursued BH, but without answers to the earlier questions. Why if they were GM/WoS: "In what way do you find my questions irrelevant? I am confused." didnt you seek answers. I can see one problem there were so many question in the post i doubt anyone would answer them all. So why ask them? Those questions were asked because I know how BH's ingame ego works and I was trying to find a way to show it to the thread, as can be seen in my written case against him. BH does not back down when dealing with anyone he feels is less skilled than him as can be seen by his constant tunneling of both me and Oats this game, and the way he talks to VA early. He is completely different when talking with Hapa and I wanted to make this evident; it is not a particularly towny way to play---completely deriding everyone's activity and efforts aside from one person. And what do you know, now that said person is dead there is absolutely no one to 'reign him in,' so he can act all troll-BH as he pleases, shit up the thread, offer no explanations for his reads and no one is around to scold him for it or make him stop that he will respond to. I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. Difficult, time consuming, and artificially restraining myself I know, but it is how I resolved to play this specific game. I have seen BH play before as have many people. Now that you have said this I have more problems. GM:WoS: I asked those questions earlier as a way for me to logically come to this point while still in the GM persona without using meta to prove it. What do you mean by come logically to the point. Were you asking questions to get answers to them, or was the purpose of the post to ask questions, while actually logically coming to a point. Your post concludes "What I am truly unsure about is the degree to which you actually care about your ego. I would think you're more likely to discard this ego as a scum player in favor of lying, but I cannot, of course, be sure." Which looks pretty much like coming to the point of saying something. So was the point of the post the questions or the conclusion it appears to reach and state. if the point of it was the questions, and the thread needed those answers "trying to find a way to show it to the thread," then why didnt you need to get them answered at some time? To be completely honest, I'm not sure what you're asking me. Can you try and rephrase it? Aure thing that post see above. it had lots of things with ? at the end in it they are questions. Was the point of the post to ask those questions and get answers. ("show it to the thread," via answers to questions) Was the point of the post to make statement. ("show it to the thread," via statement by you) or something else. If it was questions why when you didnt you get answers didnt you ask again? and just drop it. No need to be snide. There was no grand plan behind it, I suppose you could call it a combination of both. I wasn't exactly sure how BH would answer the questions if at all so it was more that I was trying to lead him in a direction where I could show the thread exactly how he is prone to act in certain situations. Why didn't I ask again? I don't know. I think I gave up the train of thought at the time. Trying to get BH to do anything is like pulling teeth anyway. Vayne it was a joke between me and Corazon. It's not related to the game really. Snide = Sorry. Ok. it will take a little bit for me to get the stuff. but without links to where or what. So that post gets the thread to see Bh has ego etc. (he said to me back then he is talented guy...) How does that interact with him beign scummy or town. Walk me through how me knowing that lets me evaluate BH(with ego) and see that he got a scum Pm and not BH(with ego) got a town PM. Specifically, the section where he backs down from Hapa yet is belligerent towards Oats got me thinking about how in general he interacts with people. I believe I spoke about it last night---as scum he tends not to give people he thinks are beneath him the time of day. He does this as town as well, but when he's serious about hunting scum he will eventually interact with everyone in the thread in some form of a positive way. Essentially I was trying to display this without the ability to dive into BH's meta and prove this---again, Les Mafia is a good example--- and show that he can't act that way towards Hapa as Hapa is a very skilled town player and will not put up with his bullshit, yet will shit up the thread towards anyone else he can when he can get away with it. Without even using meta I can tell you that the way BH has been acting in this way towards people is not town-aligned in the slightest; the meta only makes it stronger when you can see that's how he acts in various games. I admit it's not exactly the clearest line of thought but I know it's true, I've played with BH a ton recently and feel that I've learned to read him well (despite me lying about it as GM). It doesn't mean much but I've said it before, if I was town in Les there is no way I would have voted to lynch him when he acted the way he did at the end of the game. He has not acted even a fraction as towny this game as he did in that one. Ok. I will need to reread your filter in context with that in mind. it was not one of the possible intentions that originally sprang to my mind.
Axle can you answer my question?
You've been doing too much analysis and questioning and not offering enough in terms of reads and stances taken.
Who is scum and why?
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EPT
