EPTTonight would have been so much fun.
PTP IV - Demon's Run - Page 9
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Tonight would have been so much fun. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 01 2013 09:08 gonzaw wrote: I thought you were picking specific targets. Or...doing something, I don't even know what. I actually thought for a while after you got my ability that you thought I was friendly, and so were trying to steer Crossfire towards a not OP set of options.oh, that means our secret code was in vain  Didn't you feel suspicious when we were talking in code about which item to use? Why would we do that if he has all abilities at the same time? | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 01 2013 09:09 gonzaw wrote: Anyways, at least I feel kind of good my role won (and how scum misunderstood it) won us the game. I feel shitty as hell for the rest of it though So vote kita with me and roll the dice! | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 01 2013 09:10 kitaman27 wrote: lol so what was your role that it was so bad that you never used it gonzaw? iirc he kills a random person who votes for him, and can also target people at night to spread the ability to them or something like that. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
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austinmcc
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Before I go further, I will tell you this. Kita is not mafia/church. He is a third party. This is not a giant ploy between the two of us to have you lynch me and then let him win. Believe it or don't believe it, but this isn't an act to keep him alive and have him shoot you guys. However, that does not mean you should lynch me. Take a good, hard look at the game, and you'll see what I see. If you kill me, I think kita 100% wins the game and both town and mafia lose. If you don't kill me, and kill kita instead, we go to the magical night roulette. So, without further ado, here are three major things to consider: | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On June 04 2013 06:37 deconduo wrote: Kita is correct that mafia/church needed all "town" forces dead to win. Therefore, don't backstab him, etc. - + Show Spoiler +Alignments: The Alliance You win when all Anti-Town forces are dead. The Church You win when all Town forces are dead. ????? You win if you are alive at the end of the game and have fulfilled your victory condition. On July 01 2013 08:15 kitaman27 wrote: To the remaining mafia: The Church You win when all Town forces are dead. The game ends as soon as the final town player is dead. There is literally zero reason to backstab me. However, the wording is odd, and I didn't notice it until this morning. Alliance wins when "anti-town" forces are dead. Church wins when "town" forces are dead. Look at that again. Alliance doesn't win when "Church" forces are dead, nor does Church win when "Alliance" forces are dead. That is because third parties can have town/anti-town alignment. Feel free to double-check this for yourself, but third parties can be anti-town Again, feel free to double-check for yourselves. If you lynch me, the game does not magically end. You have to kill all anti-town forces, not church forces. You lynch me, the Church faction is gone. However, kita is not. Based on the other points, he's lying about some things and his role doesn't match up with him being a survivor. Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment. If he's 3P, you don't win by lynching me. You have to lynch me AND have kita not be anti-town. You know, the lying "survivor" with a vigi shot and a "lovers" thing that is AWFUL for a survivor (see below). If kita is anti-town, he's engineered the perfect endgame if you vote me. You kill me. You don't win. Kita dayvigs one of you tomorrow, it's 1-1, no lynch. Kita waits 2 days, and then day vigs the other one of you. TA DA. Town loses. Mafia loses. Kita, and only kita, wins. I'm going to repeat, big again TOWN DOES NOT WIN WHEN ALL CHURCH (MAFIA), IS DEAD. TOWN WINS WHEN ALL "ANTI-TOWN FORCES" ARE DEAD. THIRD PARTIES CAN BE TOWN/ANTI-TOWN, THAT IS WHY THERE IS THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN ALLIANCE/CHURCH AND TOWN/ANTI-TOWN. JUST READ THE WORDING, IT IS DIFFERENT FOR A REASON | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Kita has lied about what it is that he does. (1) In chat logs with geript, Kita says he can't shoot again after shooting DI. When responding to crossfire's request for a FULL role claim, Kita does not include a limit on his shots. When zephirdd made comments about the role he created, he did not say anything about the number of shots. Furthermore, who in the balls creates a vigi role with THREE shots. Vigis get like...one or two shots, or unlimited, I have never seen a three-shot vigi. Kita tells geript that he can't shoot again - + Show Spoiler + 62 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-28-2013 04:38 PM ET (US) Can't shoot ever again? That's complete bs. Then just shoot gonzaw first. 61 kitaman27 06-28-2013 04:28 PM ET (US) Can't busdrive. If I shoot today, I can't shoot again. Kita gives his role to Crossfire, does NOT say he has a shot limit - + Show Spoiler + On July 01 2013 10:40 kitaman27 wrote: I'm the Weeping Angel I win if I am alive at the end of the game, and have successfully fed on the TARDIS. I have no clue if feeding on the TARDIS altered it in any way. I was never informed. My disguise is Madam Vastra You can pick someone to be your maid by PMing the hosts at any point in the game. You and your maid are able to communicate at any point in time, however you don't know his/her role/alignment and he/she doesnt know yours. If you and your maid survive for two straight cycles(day and night, or 144 real-life hours), you become lovers, which means that if one dies, the other suicides. Despite begrudging respect for humanity, you do enjoy devouring them once in a while. You can eat a person during day time anonymously, but you need a day to enjoy the meal. Again, read his claim to Crossfire. NOWHERE does he say he has limited shots. It just says he eats someone, needs a day between to enjoy a meal. That's all. He didn't tell Crossfire he had limited shots. Zephirdd didn't say anything about limited shots. Three is an odd number to be limited to. The likely conclusion? He's not actually limited on shots. He has some angle when he was talking to geript, and it slipped his mind when changing to crossfire and he didn't alter his PM. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Kita says he is a survivor. I have told you that he is 3P, but we have NO confirmation that he is a survivor, and I will repeat, third parties can be anti-town. Things he has said, things that are half-known about his role PM, and his play this game all point towards him being 3P, but NOT a survivor. (1) Kita told geript he was a mafia traitor. + Show Spoiler + 113 Geript 06-27-2013 06:31 PM ET (US) Dude give me some credit. And not Traitor is comple bullshit on top of it. 112 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:25 PM ET (US) Uuuuuuurg. We should have considered traitor with only 3 mafia. I'd been thinking he'd be an assassin or some other 3rd party with KP to help drop numbers. 111 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:23 PM ET (US) Don't overplay it. Oh goddamn it. Figure out if there's a way to activate it or something I guess. Do NOT tell him I'm mafia, in case he's actually some other 3P. 110 Geript 06-27-2013 06:19 PM ET (US) FYI Kita claimed mafia traitor. Idk what to believe w/ him. In mason chat w/ him. Pure copy paste from QT. Kita lied to us about his role. We didn't trust him, and any mention of that from his conversation with geript has been scrubbed away. If he's lying about his 3P role, he's not doing it for happy reasons. He's telling each side what they want to hear. (2) Kita's lovers thing is 100% at odds with him being a survivor You can pick someone to be your maid by PMing the hosts at any point in the game. You and your maid are able to communicate at any point in time, however you don't know his/her role/alignment and he/she doesnt know yours. If you and your maid survive for two straight cycles(day and night, or 144 real-life hours), you become lovers, which means that if one dies, the other suicides. Geript said he'd become "star-crossed lovers" if he stayed masoned with kita - + Show Spoiler + 117 Geript 06-27-2013 07:07 PM ET (US) i'm quite sure he's some sort of 3p b/c if i stay masoned with him for so long then i become starcrossed lovers with him. (We were trying to figure out what exactly kita was) Geript did not know what that meant, or did not tell me. But look at the frigging language kita has claimed. He ties himself to another person, and if one dies, the other suicides? That's an AWFUL power for a survivor, and one you REALLY don't want to use. Not only do YOU have to survive, but now you have to make sure ANOTHER PERSON survives? You just doubled your chances of losing. And kita used his mason on geript, WHO WAS JUST CHECKED AS MAFIA (kita's version of his role says he can PM at any time to be someone's chat buddy). Geript is HIGHLY likely to die at that point, get lynched or something, but kita is planning to keep him alive overnight. Just look at that. Kita shoots geript, who fake dies on D3. He sits out a bit, then pops back into thread N3 or D4 because of his role. Kita KNOWS that, because kita created geript's role. After D3 and N3, kita becomes star-crossed lovers with RED-CHECKED GERIPT. Geript then gets lynched or killed somehow, probably, and KITA DIES BECAUSE OF HIS POWER. It's an AWFUL pairing to choose if you're kita, given the red check. And it's an AWFUL power to EVER use as a survivor, because it makes you more likely to die. But kita used it. Indicates he's NOT a survivor. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
(Sorry, I had to stop the summary for a moment of work, looking at Kita's response now) | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 00:49 kitaman27 wrote: Here is the biggest thing I see with kita's post.Survivors are not anti-town. I've already confirmed that I can win when only town + me remain or only town + mafia remain. I'm guessing it is worded that way because that is the wording of town win conditions in nearly all games. "Therefore, I believe he is NOT a survivor, actually DOES have an alignment." What does this even mean? The OP states that third party players in this game are survivors. I can't possibly be a serial killer based on how the win conditions are worded in the OP. Therefore I am a survivor and I can win with town. Stop grasping at straws. The OP does not say third party players are survivors. On June 04 2013 06:37 deconduo wrote: Alignments: The Alliance You win when all Anti-Town forces are dead. The Church You win when all Town forces are dead. ????? You win if you are alive at the end of the game and have fulfilled your victory condition. It says be alive AND fulfill victory conditions. Moreover, you can check for yourselves. Third parties can be town and anti-town. If third parties were ALL survivors, then they wouldn't be town/anti-town. They're neutral, they win either way. Because they can be town/anti-town, they ACTIVELY STOP ALLIANCE/CHURCH FACTIONS FROM ACHIEVING THEIR WIN-CONS. Survivors don't do that. Survivors just win. Town/Mafia never have "Kill mafia/town, and then also kill all the survivors kkthx" Kita's "all 3P are survivors" story makes NO sense, because 3Ps can be town/anti-town and interefere with alliance/church win-cons. Second, and more nebulous: We have no PROOF that you are a survivor. You claim that. But your PLAY does not say survivor. On D3, you shot town and worked to save geript. Geript TOLD you in PMs, the PMs you posted, that I was mafia (more or less, by saying to shoot everyone else). You could have shot me, let geript get lynched. If you were a survivor and we were the last two mafia, congratulations, you win. If you were a survivor and there were three mafia remaining, congratulations, there is now ONE mafia remaining and YOU SHOT A MAFIA. Town isn't killing you at that point, and you're clear to coast for a survivor win. Mafia was absolutely SCREWED that day. And you bailed us out of it. That's not survivor play. That's knowing that if mafia gets screwed on D3, and it's like BC/Gonzaw/Crossfire/DI vs. one or 0 mafia and they don't win, you're going to get lynched. Gonzaw, crossfire, put yourself in kita's mindset D3. He could have sided with town, killed mafia. You guys would have kept him alive then. Mafia would be so utterly screwed that we would need to focus on killing town for the rest of the game. He had an easy path as a survivor. Instead, he sided with mafia. The only purpose that serves is to drag the game out, reduce numbers, and make it so it's not a bunch of townies + kita and the townies scratching their heads wondering why they haven't won yet. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 02:46 gonzaw wrote: So you feel comfortable with him saying all 3Ps are survivors when 3Ps can be town/anti-town?woot austin if kita had to be the last man standing as 3P...he'd have factional KP, that's like a fact. You feel comfortable with him giving different stories about how many shots he has? You feel real, real, REAL comfortable about him actually being a pure, honest-to-god, just-survive survivor? I don't know what he is. I don't know that he's got to be last man standing. But what I KNOW, and what you can see for yourself, and ask yourself, is that the win-cons don't support his "all 3P = survivor" claim. I could post all day with things that he might be, but what I know, and what you should be able to smell, is that his story doesn't add up. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 03:00 gonzaw wrote: I mean, I do. I spent part of last night thinking up dumb claims.Well, I feel that you HAVE to come up with something in order play to win today. Kita would most likely lie about shit to avoid getting lynched today as well (even if he's 3P survivor or some shit I guess). Meh, I'll reread and shit and reconsider, we have time. Also, you guys could like vote each other or something, so it's easier for us to voteswitch and shit. "I have the TARDIS, and now that it's been drained of energy, whoever has it can use it as a dayvig, just dropping it on the head of someone. Crossfire, if you don't put your vote and kita's vote on kita, I will dayvig you at end of cycle and town will lose. I would vig you right now, but kita is trying to get me killed, and I'd rather he get lynched and not win." "As part of my role, when I lose the power to grant powers, I get to pick one power for myself from another list. I chose dayvig." Same thing. Trust me, I got lies aplenty to try and avoid getting lynched today. But you're right, I'd tell them no matter his alignment. It's up to you guys to figure out what you think about his alignment. All I know is that I sat down and really read the win-cons this morning, and asked whether 3Ps can be town/anti-town. | ||
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austinmcc
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I don't think that matters, and you may not trust me, but...it wouldn't even do anything for me if I had it, so there's no reason to hide that. It wouldn't stop a lynch or help me kill you guys tonight, so...there's no real reason to lie here. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 03:22 kitaman27 wrote: I didn't worry until NOW about gonzaw being protected, no.No real reason to lie? Either you or geript have lied because you contradict each other. GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-28-2013 05:38 PM ET (US) Not saying, but I'm not worried about it. 72 kitaman27 06-28-2013 05:29 PM ET (US) So you guys have it? 71 GeriptPerson was signed in when posted 06-28-2013 05:09 PM ET (US) No not worried about Tardis at all. 70 kitaman27 06-28-2013 05:01 PM ET (US) Do you not worry about gonzaw being protected? If you guys don't have the TARDIS, someone must have it, unless my aids broke it. I figured it winked out of existence, or that it being drained of energy meant it couldn't activate. If they've got the TARDIS, it makes things harder/impossible for me, but if that were the case, then: (1) I don't think they'd be slow-rolling it like this; and (2) they'd lynch you, because I can't kill them tonight and they can lynch me tomorrow. If they have the TARDIS, then they lynch you, ensure that they don't have a chance to lose, and then lynch me tomorrow. You silly. | ||
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austinmcc
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Third parties are NOT all survivors like kita says. The OP says that third parties have to survive AND do stuff. Moreover, you can confirm for yourselves, third parties CAN be town or anti-town. Based on that, the alliance and the church may well need to eliminate third parties, or specific third parties, before they can win. However, CAN be is the furthest you get with your questions. I checked to see whether third parties are guaranteed to be town/anti-town, rather than just neutral, and I'm not allowed an answer. Again, check for yourselves if you want, and I can understand not answering because either answer there is gamebreaking. You just gotta figure out whether you think things add up. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
As far as what doesn't add up for him being a survivor, I pointed out things that I saw -
Nothing is the equivalent of a rolecop check that says "Kita not survivor." But there's a bunch of little bits and pieces that feel wrong with his story. It just comes down to whether or not I trust/you trust/crossfire trusts his claim. You think hosts balance alignments of 3P based on the role he got? I think that, when they're assigning teams, they have to look at some things. A mafia team with a single NK and NO other KP seems like it would have no chance in this game. If geript/DI/WoS had all been town, it would seem like mafia had no chance to win (2.5 resurrectors and 1 NK?).So...what if they had my role then? Wtf would that 3P be? Jester/Town Idiot? Or they looked at which role everybody got, and then decided "yes, the guy that gets THIS role gets to be 3P survivor, the guy that gets this other role will be 3P SK", etc? That last one could have made sense I guess. But why wouldn't they just give a SK a factional KP, ON TOP of his PTP role? I mean, scum had factional KP and they had lots of PTP roles with abilities and shit, why can't a SK have that either? (of course it may not have been too balanced, but just increase some townies to 16 or 17 and that shit is good to go) So what role would you say fits a survivor more than the one kita got? So I think there's SOME balancing of factions based on the roles that everyone gets. Heck, look at how geript and MZ flipped. Nobody wrote a role for scum. Each scum is "you have this disguise/alias." That way, they take a balanced team of roles people made, turn them into aliases for scum. So yes, I DO think that they look at what roles everyone got, and balance the game partially around that. We all had aliases. Mafia KP is NOT in the OP (possibly to give them wiggle room and let them give mafia 1 or 2 KP depending on roles). Heck, you thought I was 3P for a while because of my de-bearing bonus win. That's the same thing, "This guy's got a weird bonus wincon, let's make him 3P." You ask what I think "fits" a survivor, and I have no idea. I don't think anyone in PTP is making a super-survivor focused role, everyone wants cool town powers or cool mafia powers. If you actually want speculation: Maybe he's telling the truth to geript about being a traitor of sorts. Anti-town survivor. Wins with scum, wins alone. Was angling to win with scum, now is angling to win alone, because that's his only option. Look at how he started the day. He had those logs, he knew I was scum, and his first decision was to tell scum not to backstab him. He keeps talking about backstabbing, indicating that he thinks we're aligned with him. First order of the day, don't get backstabbed. Second order of the day, uh oh, can't win with mafia, better post this stuff. I got no friggin clue. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
Gonzaw, now I'm jumping on the speculation train and yeah, the idea of him being an "x-aligned survivor" doesn't match up with me saying he's not playing like a survivor in any event. I agree with that. So I'll stop. I don't know what he is. All I know is that it's not as cut and dry as I'd been thinking, and not as cut and dry as you'd been thinking. Before, you assumed he was mafia or 3P, and if he was 3P, then you win when you kill me. At a very, very basic level, that's not true. He can be an anti-town 3P. It's not valuing (100-x) where x is the chance he and I are colluding here. It's (100-x) where x is the chance that he's anti-town 3P. So...mind telling me in which part of that convo he posted he claims traitor? Because I don't see it. He doesn't in that convo he posted. Geript, in our QT, said kita had claimed mafia traitor. That's one of the things I'm saying doesn't add up.Either he was in contact with geript via PMs, or one of you two is lying I suppose. Either I'm doctoring QT posts or he is. We both have reason to, but I know that I'm not and come endgame you'll know that I'm not, you can read scum QT (not that it does you any good today). | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 03:59 gonzaw wrote: It's...pretty ironic.Austin, I find it funny how you are trying to make contributions, cases, push a lynch, and shit now when you haven't all game long lol I did jack all most of game. I actively gave town powers. I outed myself today because I thought you meant the game was over. But whatever. As funny as it is, as ironic as it is, it doesn't matter. All that matters is whether you trust kita's claim or not, whether you believe he's neutral 3P. | ||
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austinmcc
United States6737 Posts
On July 02 2013 00:43 austinmcc wrote: (1) Kita told geript he was a mafia traitor. + Show Spoiler + 113 Geript 06-27-2013 06:31 PM ET (US) Dude give me some credit. And not Traitor is comple bullshit on top of it. 112 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:25 PM ET (US) Uuuuuuurg. We should have considered traitor with only 3 mafia. I'd been thinking he'd be an assassin or some other 3rd party with KP to help drop numbers. 111 austinmcc 06-27-2013 06:23 PM ET (US) Don't overplay it. Oh goddamn it. Figure out if there's a way to activate it or something I guess. Do NOT tell him I'm mafia, in case he's actually some other 3P. 110 Geript 06-27-2013 06:19 PM ET (US) FYI Kita claimed mafia traitor. Idk what to believe w/ him. In mason chat w/ him. | ||
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