EPTOn June 26 2013 05:58 kitaman27 wrote:
Show me a respected player that disagrees with my assessment that scummy players should be vig shot. Cmon now, you're just terrible.
You're trying to avoid what I'm saying, although geript may be making that a non-issueShow me a respected player that disagrees with my assessment that scummy players should be vig shot. Cmon now, you're just terrible.
I don't disagree that "scummy players should be vig shot." I disagree with your comment that NULL players SHOULDN'T be shot, that we should be shooting at a list of scummy dudes over pure ?s. More specifically, I disagree with how strongly you reacted, like this was the most nonsensical thing in the world to shoot null players, and should never ever be considered.
I swear there's another Ace post in a guide, and a couple in postgames, about blowing away null players, but this was the closest I could find on short notice - + Show Spoiler +
On June 12 2011 11:11 Ace wrote:
This isn't hard. In fact a lot of this comes down to either A.) common sense or B.) reading. I guarantee you if you follow these guidelines you will bump the town's chances of winning up considerably.
Vigilante
Priority 0: Shoot liars. Some players still try and spin these stupid fairy tales saying that lying helps the town. They also believe Voldemort is real. Don't listen to them. Without going in depth about why lying is bad just follow this statement - SHOOT first. There are very few instances where lying benefits the town. Even then it usually ends up benefiting the Mafia much more. When players sign up for a game in which they know multiple people playing aren't stupid enough to let all their lies go unpunished they have to step their game up considerably. Look at all the terrible games that are littered around this forum. You want to know a recurring theme? Townies lying trying to make a hero play, and then Scum lying since that is now the temporary "way to look town". Shoot before it hits LYLO with 3 people that have roles that can't be confirmed. In fact shoot them because when a player lies about being a Cop and the real Cop gets night killed or lynched the game is essentially over. DONT LET IT GET TO THIS POINT. EVER. Nothing sucks more than an end game scenario with tons of WIFOM.
Priority 1: Shoot people that are talking nonsense. Activity doesn't make someone pro-town. You shoot people that are saying one thing but doing another. This goes especially for people using meta arguments that do things scummy regardless of alignment. Shoot them Night 1 if the rules allow it. Along with this shoot players that will help untie clashing role claims, or clashing scenarios. If you're in a situation where the death of one player confirms something about another, shoot. Most players are braindead anyway and this is one of the few times where it helps to take matters into your own hands.
Priority 2: Shoot lurkers
This is almost a priority 0 but people that play Scummy are always best shot first. However, shooting lurkers establishes an awesome town meta. If people know other players won't stand for their inactivity, and the threat of a modkill leads to a ban they wont sign up. Likewise like I said in countless mafia games in the past: people that are defending themselves are much more likely to be valuable than people that don't. So shoot the people that lurk when called out all the time, and shoot the people that won't contribute after repeated prodding. They are USELESS to the town - kill them before it hits LYLO. You'll be sorry if it does.
Not the clear statement or the guide that I was remembering, but this is from Ace's Magical Vigi/Cop Guide. Liars > Nonsense > lurkers. Lying and nonsense are scummy, but there's no general "scummy" there, still...this is NOT clearly against your comment. This isn't hard. In fact a lot of this comes down to either A.) common sense or B.) reading. I guarantee you if you follow these guidelines you will bump the town's chances of winning up considerably.
Vigilante
Priority 0: Shoot liars. Some players still try and spin these stupid fairy tales saying that lying helps the town. They also believe Voldemort is real. Don't listen to them. Without going in depth about why lying is bad just follow this statement - SHOOT first. There are very few instances where lying benefits the town. Even then it usually ends up benefiting the Mafia much more. When players sign up for a game in which they know multiple people playing aren't stupid enough to let all their lies go unpunished they have to step their game up considerably. Look at all the terrible games that are littered around this forum. You want to know a recurring theme? Townies lying trying to make a hero play, and then Scum lying since that is now the temporary "way to look town". Shoot before it hits LYLO with 3 people that have roles that can't be confirmed. In fact shoot them because when a player lies about being a Cop and the real Cop gets night killed or lynched the game is essentially over. DONT LET IT GET TO THIS POINT. EVER. Nothing sucks more than an end game scenario with tons of WIFOM.
Priority 1: Shoot people that are talking nonsense. Activity doesn't make someone pro-town. You shoot people that are saying one thing but doing another. This goes especially for people using meta arguments that do things scummy regardless of alignment. Shoot them Night 1 if the rules allow it. Along with this shoot players that will help untie clashing role claims, or clashing scenarios. If you're in a situation where the death of one player confirms something about another, shoot. Most players are braindead anyway and this is one of the few times where it helps to take matters into your own hands.
Priority 2: Shoot lurkers
This is almost a priority 0 but people that play Scummy are always best shot first. However, shooting lurkers establishes an awesome town meta. If people know other players won't stand for their inactivity, and the threat of a modkill leads to a ban they wont sign up. Likewise like I said in countless mafia games in the past: people that are defending themselves are much more likely to be valuable than people that don't. So shoot the people that lurk when called out all the time, and shoot the people that won't contribute after repeated prodding. They are USELESS to the town - kill them before it hits LYLO. You'll be sorry if it does.
Again, not what I'm remembering - + Show Spoiler +
On January 28 2011 06:09 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Inactivity / Stupidity
I am lumping this issue together as the response from town should be very similar. If someone is inactive it lets mafia hide there if so desired, which happens in most games. Stupidity allows mafia to hide in the background and “appear” active from time to time while hiding behind this person or people. IF people are routinely inactive, or exceptionally spammy/stupid. Town is not wasting lynches if they lynch them, nor are vigilante’s wasting hits on them. These are players that hurt the town as much if not worse than mafia.
*note – By stupid I mean people who are consistently pushing bad lynches, or spamming away decent posts. It does not matter if everyone recognizes they are town, if they are still being a negative force, or bulldogging bad views they should be ignored or removed. Town needs a clear head to play, discussion is good if its productive, if its not it only wastes daytime.
Inactivity / Stupidity
I am lumping this issue together as the response from town should be very similar. If someone is inactive it lets mafia hide there if so desired, which happens in most games. Stupidity allows mafia to hide in the background and “appear” active from time to time while hiding behind this person or people. IF people are routinely inactive, or exceptionally spammy/stupid. Town is not wasting lynches if they lynch them, nor are vigilante’s wasting hits on them. These are players that hurt the town as much if not worse than mafia.
*note – By stupid I mean people who are consistently pushing bad lynches, or spamming away decent posts. It does not matter if everyone recognizes they are town, if they are still being a negative force, or bulldogging bad views they should be ignored or removed. Town needs a clear head to play, discussion is good if its productive, if its not it only wastes daytime.
Routinely inactive people hurt town as much if not worse than mafia. Not wasting vigi hits on them. Ta da!
So again, either I'm making up the statements I remember or I can't find them, but these are ... heading in that direction? Blech. Does nobody else remember these comments? Maybe an ace postgame?
On June 26 2013 06:11 gonzaw wrote:
Hmm austin, one thing that kind of bothers me is how convinced you are his claim is bogus and he's scum
Town-austin would be coming out with conspiracy theories about every possibility, and determine if he's lying or not, ask him questions, then post a huge post with a theory, etc.
You just seem to instantly figure out kita is fake-claiming as scum and manage to come up with all that shit?
Seems a little bit like confirmation bias, you said "okay, kita is scum let's see what I can write about him if I assume he's scum and fake-claiming".
Like, I thought the Tardis thing was weird, but:
1)If he's scum, would he do some stuff like that? Get the Tardis but keep it and not claiming shit? Or did he plan on fake-claiming survivor as scum all along? If so, wouldn't that hurt his scumteam? Instead of trying to blend in he just fake-claims 3P and hopes town doesn't kill him?
For that Tardis thing to make sense scum kita should have planned fake-claiming 3P since BEFORE N1 ENDED, not just make it a half-assed claim after getting lots of votes (if that was the case, wtf was the Tardis thing about?)
3)If he's scum, then the Tardis thing would be something related to the PTP role he got right? So wouldn't his role creator just claim "hey, Tardis is super powerful and kita didn't claim he had it and bla bla bla"?
4)What about the breadcrumb? I don't remember scum fake-claiming 3P survivor and BREADCRUMBING it on their first post (like, did even iGrok do that shit with the original Balrog claim?
After his claim I started thinking about all this shit to see if his claim is legit or not...why didn't you austin?
All austins of all alignments would generally be coming up with conspiracy theories about every possibility. I usually can't help it, and as scum the conspiracy theories let me muck up the thread while looking like I'm doing something AND looking like town me.Hmm austin, one thing that kind of bothers me is how convinced you are his claim is bogus and he's scum
Town-austin would be coming out with conspiracy theories about every possibility, and determine if he's lying or not, ask him questions, then post a huge post with a theory, etc.
You just seem to instantly figure out kita is fake-claiming as scum and manage to come up with all that shit?
Seems a little bit like confirmation bias, you said "okay, kita is scum let's see what I can write about him if I assume he's scum and fake-claiming".
Like, I thought the Tardis thing was weird, but:
1)If he's scum, would he do some stuff like that? Get the Tardis but keep it and not claiming shit? Or did he plan on fake-claiming survivor as scum all along? If so, wouldn't that hurt his scumteam? Instead of trying to blend in he just fake-claims 3P and hopes town doesn't kill him?
For that Tardis thing to make sense scum kita should have planned fake-claiming 3P since BEFORE N1 ENDED, not just make it a half-assed claim after getting lots of votes (if that was the case, wtf was the Tardis thing about?)
3)If he's scum, then the Tardis thing would be something related to the PTP role he got right? So wouldn't his role creator just claim "hey, Tardis is super powerful and kita didn't claim he had it and bla bla bla"?
4)What about the breadcrumb? I don't remember scum fake-claiming 3P survivor and BREADCRUMBING it on their first post (like, did even iGrok do that shit with the original Balrog claim?
After his claim I started thinking about all this shit to see if his claim is legit or not...why didn't you austin?
+ Show Spoiler +
To the first question, he didn't claim/fakeclaim until he got pressured. He could no longer blend in. Announcing the TARDIS stuff was odd, yeah, so I dunno. I don't have anything about TARDIS in my PM. I don't entirely know what it does, whether someone created it as part of a role, etc. It sounds like multiple people have references to it in their roles. If you want conspiracy theory stuff, it's possible that it supercharges some roles, or grants them bonuses, in ways that are worth sticking one's neck out for.
Scum kita still wouldn't claim "I'm 3P survivor and I need the TARDIS" on N1. That's a giant red flag imo, DON'T GIVE THIS GUY THE TARDIS, because he wants it bad AND is willing to say "I'm not town" in order to get it. The benefit to town of giving a 3P the tardis (zero) is less than the risk to town of giving someone anti-town the tardis (BAD FO TOWN).
To the third, I dunno. I know jack all about the TARDIS except apparently it gets passed and it does stuff, including either medicing or bus driving someone?
To the fourth, breadcrumb schmeadcrumb. I know people don't play optimally and crumb all sorts of crap when they're anti-town, but it's so easy that I don't really put stock in them.
Scum kita still wouldn't claim "I'm 3P survivor and I need the TARDIS" on N1. That's a giant red flag imo, DON'T GIVE THIS GUY THE TARDIS, because he wants it bad AND is willing to say "I'm not town" in order to get it. The benefit to town of giving a 3P the tardis (zero) is less than the risk to town of giving someone anti-town the tardis (BAD FO TOWN).
To the third, I dunno. I know jack all about the TARDIS except apparently it gets passed and it does stuff, including either medicing or bus driving someone?
To the fourth, breadcrumb schmeadcrumb. I know people don't play optimally and crumb all sorts of crap when they're anti-town, but it's so easy that I don't really put stock in them.
