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On July 03 2013 13:19 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 13:14 austinmcc wrote:
Even then, it might have worked. I had planned to force you to target your ability onto crossfire the NRA member, making you kill yourself. That was the only way around it I could think of. You could force someone to use his ability? wtf lol Show nested quote +Seriously. It didn't actually kill anyone this game, but screw that role. "Oh, you targeted me, you're dead now, and you can also be bussed onto me" is some bullshit once the person looks townie. You talking about NRA member or your own role? If you are talking about NRA member then maybe yes it's OP (in this type of game at least). Like I said I threw random abilities in like 10 minutes, I didn't have time to think about balance
So you spent all your time on the non mafia portion of the role (which was very fun btw), and not the actual mafia portion of the role? lol
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On July 03 2013 13:23 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 13:19 gonzaw wrote:On July 03 2013 13:14 austinmcc wrote:
Even then, it might have worked. I had planned to force you to target your ability onto crossfire the NRA member, making you kill yourself. That was the only way around it I could think of. You could force someone to use his ability? wtf lol Seriously. It didn't actually kill anyone this game, but screw that role. "Oh, you targeted me, you're dead now, and you can also be bussed onto me" is some bullshit once the person looks townie. You talking about NRA member or your own role? If you are talking about NRA member then maybe yes it's OP (in this type of game at least). Like I said I threw random abilities in like 10 minutes, I didn't have time to think about balance So you spent all your time on the non mafia portion of the role (which was very fun btw), and not the actual mafia portion of the role? lol
Yes
>_>
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On July 03 2013 13:26 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 13:23 Crossfire99 wrote:On July 03 2013 13:19 gonzaw wrote:On July 03 2013 13:14 austinmcc wrote:
Even then, it might have worked. I had planned to force you to target your ability onto crossfire the NRA member, making you kill yourself. That was the only way around it I could think of. You could force someone to use his ability? wtf lol Seriously. It didn't actually kill anyone this game, but screw that role. "Oh, you targeted me, you're dead now, and you can also be bussed onto me" is some bullshit once the person looks townie. You talking about NRA member or your own role? If you are talking about NRA member then maybe yes it's OP (in this type of game at least). Like I said I threw random abilities in like 10 minutes, I didn't have time to think about balance So you spent all your time on the non mafia portion of the role (which was very fun btw), and not the actual mafia portion of the role? lol Yes >_>
Well it made the game awesome when we communicated in code lol. Even though I messed it up and still knew what you were talking about, it probably gave kita and austin a lot to worry about. I don't know of any other way we could have pulled that off.
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Yeah that felt awesome as well
I had hoped it would have made more of an impact so we could go "FUCK YEAH" afterwards
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On July 03 2013 13:29 gonzaw wrote:
Yeah that felt awesome as well
I had hoped it would have made more of an impact so we could go "FUCK YEAH" afterwards
It almost did. I mean we knew what the safest plan was to guarantee us multiple chances at victory and we went for it.
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On July 03 2013 12:17 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 12:10 gonzaw wrote:
Also, it's even easier than that.
You could do this if you want:
"austin is scum AND (gonzaw is town OR (NOT gonzaw is town))"
You get the same equivalent formula "austin is scum", no need to say "Acro was alive in D1" or stuff like that.
That's why the same method has to apply to sub-formulas as well Oh, if you could nest propositions deeper then you could probably set it up so complex that the number could confirm 5 DT checks... but don't ask me how to set it up right now 
If you do some truth tables and shit, I think you can come up with a regular ol' DT check list.
Basically, with this check list I made you CAN do the ol' "how many scum are in here?" trick.
Here's how. I'll show it with 3 propositions because doing it with 5 is kind of .... big lol:
Normally you'd have 3 players, A, B and C.
You want the checklist to tell you how many in that group are scum.
So you give the host "A-B-C" and if he tells you 2 there are 2 scum in that group, if he tells you 1 there's only 1 scum there, etc.
Okay, "normally" you would do this with my invention:
1)A is scum
2)B is scum
3)C is scum
The number of true statements is the number of scum in that group, right?
But my ability has the catch you have to use a compound formula, but what about this one?
1)(B is scum AND C is scum) OR (A is scum AND B is town)
2)(A is scum AND B is scum) OR (A is town AND B is scum and C is town) or (A is scum AND B is town AND C is scum)
3)(A is town AND C is scum) OR (A is scum AND B is scum)
You can check you get the same results.
If none of them are true, then A is town, B is town and C is town
If 1 of those is true, then only one of A,B and C is scum
If 2 of those are true, then 2 out of A,B and C are scum
If all are true, all of them are scum.
The best thing is that it follows the rules since neither of those can be "derived" from the other, so it's legal
Just extrapolate it to 5 players and you can get a normal checklist!
But of course it's more fun figuring out other ways to do that stuff 
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You can't do a 5-way DT check (100% DT check) though because that needs you to have lots of answers from host. You can get only 6 answers now, so you can only do stuff checking for 6 possibilities.
But if you have 2 guys, they have 2 options (town or scum), 2^2=4 so you can 100% DT check those 2 guys with this.
How? Haven't really figured it out, but I think it's possible.
It is hard enough to put atomic propositions like "X is scum", but it is insanely harder to make it using compound formulas...
But I mean, this is an ability that can theoretically give you a 100% DT check on two guys at the same time, AND give you more info (since you have 2 possibilities that remain out of the 6).
If it were easy to use it would be OP
But if you are smart and know your logic/boolean calculations, then YOU make it OP. You can either make a mess and not understand shit, or have a 100% DT check on 2 players and additional info.
If you don't want the 100% DT check, you can have a maybe 50% DT check on 3-4 guys, or have some intricate logical relations between events you want to know about and may use that info for later.
That's what I like about these type of inventions.
They are not weak or OP based on the ability alone, they are weak or OP based on the player that uses it.
Considering this means you should have knowledge in logic and shit, is a tiny fun "experiment" to see if the guy that gets it can unlock its true power!
What I also like about the Phoenix Wright kind of invention...is that it doesn't force you to do anything.
You can either get info on a small domain with 100% certainty, or info on a grand domain with less than 100% certainty, and you are free to choose
For instance, which one of these would you prefer to know is true?:
1)austin is scum
2)austin is scum IFF Xfire is town
Sure, if you get the answer for (1) you get 100% info on austin, and may lynch him without second thoughts. But you get no info on Xfire, so what are you going to do with him?
But if you get the answer for (2) you get info on BOTH of them. Nothing 100% certain, you don't know with certainty if austin is scum or town, or if Xfire is scum or town, but you do know that if Xfire were to be town, austin would be scum, and viceversa.
This allows you to open up your mind to other possibilities in-game, check the interactions between austin and Xfire knowing they are different alignments (basically a parity cop check).
So, it can either be a DT check or applying a parity cop check twice. Isn't that awesome? Not only that, but it can be even more, you don't need to just DT check.
If you asked "austin has extra KP tonight", you may get a very important answer to see what you have to do at night
If you asked "kita is bulletproof", you know whether to shoot him at night or not.
It's the ultimate investigative ability.
This type of shit has to be put into games more often.
It's flexible, it's powerful, but it's not that powerful unless the guy using it is smart, and it's fun.
All 4 properties you want in an ability
Too bad BC didn't use it >_>
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On July 03 2013 13:19 gonzaw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 13:14 austinmcc wrote:
Even then, it might have worked. I had planned to force you to target your ability onto crossfire the NRA member, making you kill yourself. That was the only way around it I could think of. You could force someone to use his ability? wtf lol Show nested quote +Seriously. It didn't actually kill anyone this game, but screw that role. "Oh, you targeted me, you're dead now, and you can also be bussed onto me" is some bullshit once the person looks townie. You talking about NRA member or your own role? If you are talking about NRA member then maybe yes it's OP (in this type of game at least). Like I said I threw random abilities in like 10 minutes, I didn't have time to think about balance I couldn't force someone to use. I didn't realize that at the time, but I wrote the role as..."retarget a person's night action" or something, with the limits being one person, one action, and never usable on the same person again.
Since I never even had the ability until D4, I didn't ask about it earlier. But the way it ended up working was that If they didn't act, it fizzled. If they acted but with something untargeted, it fizzled. If they used multiple abilities, I could only retarget the first one.
So it fizzled on the night I used, with Crossfire using vet, because there's no target. And if he was actually Voltron, it would have fizzled on you if you didn't actually use your power, but I didn't find that out until after I'd tried to work through things.
For the bullshit, yeah, NRA member. It's just an ability that feels...anti-fun? Or it does if you think it's permanent.
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Thanks for hosting decon and sentinel, PTP is always a blast <3
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Yeah thanks for the game, it was a fun experience  Unfortunately I had less time to play towards the end, which contributed to me being shot by BC (I wasn't around to defend at all). Next time I participate in a PTP, I'll make sure to have more time to play and also more focus on understanding all the power roles (and creating a better power role myself). Probably playing in a simpler game next though
There's one thing that I still don't truly, legitimately understand at all. Crossfire99, you still there? Seeing as you are town, why would you say any of these things:
A) host confirmation of roleblocks notifying the roleblocked player (a big lie - just can't be a mistake really, I refuse to believe someone could be so gravely mistaken about the contents of a host PM)
B) me lying about this matter (see above: a 100% malicious anti-town lie)
C) me being scum since I "lied" (completely untrue, but even if I did lie about that, it would be suicidal and 100% stupid as scum to do )
Not blaming the loss on Crossfire99 (or on BC for buying this stupidity while I was AFK). I just sincerely want to know what went through your mind when you made these completely untrue and anti-town statements. I see absolutely zero logic or reason in all that. Was it a colossal mistake of some kind? "Ends justify the means" type of a lie? Helping scum to win? Or what could possibly be the reason........?
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Not sure if I'd have been shot in any case (considering I was AFK and austinmcc was using his role in a kind of townish fashion), but that whole roleblock/host/lie-mess arguably sentenced me to death much more certainly than otherwise would have been possible, ESPECIALLY since I was AFK and Crossfire99 had freedom to spam his "modified truth" about roleblocks and my alignment. Maybe I'm sounding bitter now, but.... It's just too unbelievable to (at least partly) die because of something this stupid  Crossfire99, could you please explain..... WHY?
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Don't take it too seriously Gonzaw Everyone makes mistakes and becomes confused from time to time. Just look at me, my top3 scumreads for D1 were all town (LOL).
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This is what happened.
Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yeah, dec put it in the spreadsheet Show nested quote +Original Message From Crossfire99: you did get my action to roleblock xata correct? Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yes. Original Message From Crossfire99:
ARe there rolelbock notifications?
I then thought is was an elaborate ploy to mislynch me and win the game, so that's why I was so gung ho about it. I was pretty sure if we mislynched we lost, so that's why I pushed it so hard. Sorry, looking back now, I obviously wish I took a step back and thought about it more, but I didn't.
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On July 03 2013 23:02 Crossfire99 wrote:This is what happened. Show nested quote +Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yeah, dec put it in the spreadsheet Original Message From Crossfire99: you did get my action to roleblock xata correct? Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yes. Original Message From Crossfire99:
ARe there rolelbock notifications? I then thought is was an elaborate ploy to mislynch me and win the game, so that's why I was so gung ho about it. I was pretty sure if we mislynched we lost, so that's why I pushed it so hard. Sorry, looking back now, I obviously wish I took a step back and thought about it more, but I didn't.
That was probably host mis-communication. I didn't know sentinel had sent that PM and I don't send notification messages unless its specified in the role/ability.
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On July 03 2013 23:05 deconduo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 23:02 Crossfire99 wrote:This is what happened. Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yeah, dec put it in the spreadsheet Original Message From Crossfire99: you did get my action to roleblock xata correct? Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yes. Original Message From Crossfire99:
ARe there rolelbock notifications? I then thought is was an elaborate ploy to mislynch me and win the game, so that's why I was so gung ho about it. I was pretty sure if we mislynched we lost, so that's why I pushed it so hard. Sorry, looking back now, I obviously wish I took a step back and thought about it more, but I didn't. That was probably host mis-communication. I didn't know sentinel had sent that PM and I don't send notification messages unless its specified in the role/ability.
Yeah, I realized after this instance and when I kept sending more pms and getting completely different answers lol. Don't worry about it, though. I know how hard hosting a crazy themed game can be. You guys did a great job!
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gg mafs.
gg towns
gg garbonzow
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On July 03 2013 23:02 Crossfire99 wrote:This is what happened. Show nested quote +Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yeah, dec put it in the spreadsheet Original Message From Crossfire99: you did get my action to roleblock xata correct? Original Message From [UoN]Sentinel: Yes. Original Message From Crossfire99:
ARe there rolelbock notifications? I then thought is was an elaborate ploy to mislynch me and win the game, so that's why I was so gung ho about it. I was pretty sure if we mislynched we lost, so that's why I pushed it so hard. Sorry, looking back now, I obviously wish I took a step back and thought about it more, but I didn't.
Aarghhh........ Why..... Sentinellllll........ *SNAP*
(Sigh, sorry to blame you then, but deconduo said completely the opposite... I thought for a long time that you must be scum because of that. Apparently we were both victims I guess To avoid such situations, I advice to create an exhaustive and absolute list of rules about the game for all hosts to refer to. That way nothing like this could happen.)
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ALTHOUGH!!!
I did clearly ask in the thread for host confirmation about this mess. What we got were two opposite answers by two different hosts ("no" by deconduo and "yes" by Sentinel). This could all have easily been resolved, and somewhat likely my death avoided, if it had been just made clear in the thread as I requested to begin with.
Hosts pls
(PS. I would have repeatedly demanded the situation to be resolved in the thread if I hadn't been AFK for that crucial time. Thus, I am also to blame for being AFK, although less than the hosts for contradicting each other IMO.)
(PS+. Otherwise good job hosts, but this one failure *might* have caused town to lose. I hope I don't sound too much like geript now, I'm just.... Sad, I guess. Since I wrongly suspected Crossfire99 and he wrongly suspected and pushed me to death.)
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On July 03 2013 23:44 Xatalos wrote:ALTHOUGH!!! I did clearly ask in the thread for host confirmation about this mess. What we got were two opposite answers by two different hosts ("no" by deconduo and "yes" by Sentinel). This could all have easily been resolved, and somewhat likely my death avoided, if it had been just made clear in the thread as I requested to begin with. Hosts pls (PS. I would have repeatedly demanded the situation to be resolved in the thread if I hadn't been AFK for that crucial time. Thus, I am also to blame for being AFK, although less than the hosts for contradicting each other IMO.) (PS+. Otherwise good job hosts, but this one failure *might* have caused town to lose. I hope I don't sound too much like geript now, I'm just.... Sad, I guess. Since I wrongly suspected Crossfire99 and he wrongly suspected and pushed me to death.)
The hosts did clarify. It just happened to be after your death unfortunately.
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On July 03 2013 23:49 Crossfire99 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2013 23:44 Xatalos wrote:ALTHOUGH!!! I did clearly ask in the thread for host confirmation about this mess. What we got were two opposite answers by two different hosts ("no" by deconduo and "yes" by Sentinel). This could all have easily been resolved, and somewhat likely my death avoided, if it had been just made clear in the thread as I requested to begin with. Hosts pls (PS. I would have repeatedly demanded the situation to be resolved in the thread if I hadn't been AFK for that crucial time. Thus, I am also to blame for being AFK, although less than the hosts for contradicting each other IMO.) (PS+. Otherwise good job hosts, but this one failure *might* have caused town to lose. I hope I don't sound too much like geript now, I'm just.... Sad, I guess. Since I wrongly suspected Crossfire99 and he wrongly suspected and pushed me to death.) The hosts did clarify. It just happened to be after your death unfortunately.
Did they (before today I mean)? In any case, after my death is almost the same as not at all.....
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EPT
