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I wasn't trying to discredit you so ad hom is incorrect. Just weird that you brought that up again when it is one of the things I've had to address the most in this game and I've written plenty of posts on it.
The difference being that the night post is a few words and many posts in mafia are, forgive me for my bluntness, not concise and tedious to read. I end up skimming a lot of the long winded ones. I disagree that your read wasn't static as the SnB thing basically happened ages ago in game time but whatever.
a few questions for you
What do you make of the many strange posts that have happened lately (rayn randomly flipping out, koshi/marv argument, etc)
Do you have any evidence that would contradict that you and Meapak are the last two scum?
and finally, koshi = annoying self reightous town or bussing scum mastermind?
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On July 30 2013 02:30 Mocsta wrote:
(14/25)
VA
Cut the shit
1.U specifically said I'm "pulling a koshi". That is simultaneously dropping koshi credit and associating me with that drop in credit.
2. My problem with your play is that you keep getting involved in brawls of minor co sequence. You just now use that as an excuse to call me static, because u have gone over it before. Yet I could easily say its just as excuse for u to look like u contribute.
3. The snb criteria may have happened many moons ago, but everything in Mafia is about reinterpreting OLD information with NEW flips.
Why are u trying to actively discourage me from rereading the game?
As for ur q.
I'm OK with koshi. I think he is an excited townie. I liked his PMS with korynne,.
I like rayn. If he was anti-town trying to score town cred early game.. I'm sure his filter would read as flying under the radatr. Its not though. My leap of faith is town. He's self fulfilling anyways, because if 1 Mafia remainsa. Can always lynch rayn. If towqn, he can pardon himself....
As for Marv. I'm stuck with mz. I refuse to think mz is Mafia based on the coordinated bussing.
Serial killer is a possibility.
Both are standing by the green checks.. I dont like how mz caved and assumed Marv was green though. Its like he pulled out of the conflict and capitulated before it became a shit storm. Whereas I think a townie would most likely have stayed in the shitstorm.
1 and 2 contradict each other here, you criticize me in 2 for getting into little brawls or whatever but you specifically want to argue semantics with me in 1.
Not that that is alignment indicative but it is pretty annoying tbh, especially when I can hear the accusatory tone in your post.
I'm actively discouraging you from re-reading the game because you are not using it to your advantage, just flinging shit at me with age old manure.
I really doubt rayn can pardon himself, that would be pretty dumb. We don't even know if he's actually a pardoner at this point with how secretive he's been lately. besides fighting with me and a few snide comments he's been much less active than before.
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On July 30 2013 03:12 Mr. Wiggles wrote:Fun fact of the Day: On Day 1, not a single scum voted for MZ. Here's my PMs with him, in case you missed them earlier in the thread: + Show Spoiler +You're oddly quiet, what do you think about a layabout, sloosh, s&b scum team?
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
Looks like there's more pressure on you today. I don't think you're the best lynch though. Are you planning on stopping it yourself? I'd be willing to help try to move the lynch off of you, but that would be awkward without basically posting everything here.
Hide nested quote -
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
There is no such role as SK in this game and yet when I mentioned it FT was rearin to go and kill Ace. SK's are very bad for scum and it's easy to look townie going after an SK. It was an easy bait and FT jumped on it. I was just trolling but FT had a really bad reaction.
Maybe he's town since he quoted the PM, we'll see if he gets modkilled.
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
What are your thoughts on Vivax, and what do you think of Kholly's claim? I ask because Vivax masoned me, and we talked for a while. Some of what he was saying made sense, but if he's actually mafia, it would be useful information, since he was pushing certain people quite hard in PM. I'm not sure if I believe Kholly. He's been trolling the whole game, and in my communications with Vivax, he didn't come off as scum to me. So, there's a discrepancy between my own reads and what Kholly's saying, and based on kholly's performance so far, I don't see much of a reason to believe him.
Do you actually think FT is scum? I'm not sure of it.
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
I'm not gonna say this in the thread but Ace worries me a lot and I would be so happy if he was dead. As for S&B, he says he's suspicious of Ace, Sloosh, and layabout. Those are personally fine scum reads in my book but he also jumped on the FT lynch wagon very fast for someone who is supposedly suspicious of Ace. I'm gonna keep trolling the thread for a while but I'm really interested to see who keeps pushing FT now that Ace has revealed he was lying.
What are your thoughts? If you think S&B is really that scummy you should analyze his ass.
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
What are your thoughts on Strongandbig? What are your thoughts on the lynch today? What do you think of Ace's trolling?
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
Yeah my alignment is gonna be wifom for you atm and for that I apologize, I'm town but I don't expect you to believe that. My behavior is a result of me genuinely missing the beginning of the game so I decided just to go balls out and play my scum meta until someone noticed. I was really hoping you would get a wagon started because I look like such lynchbait but that didn't happen.
I'm fairly certain VE is town. I've tried to kill him multiple times for similar behavior and he has an annoying knack for flipping town. I also don't think Tofu is scum, I just get a townie vibe from him and his posts thus far seem very genuine and not at all the way DrH is portraying them. I wouldn't at all mind seeing DrH dead since he's just being so toxic which is why I'm voting him. That and I'm really not too motivated to try and whip up an entirely new lynch in the waning hours before the deadline.
I am currently extremely concerned by sandroba's absence, I was actually planning on PMing him right off the bat but he's been afk and that makes me nervous. Aside from him there are an irritating number of inactive people.
I have to be perfectly honest, I have not been reading this game very carefully thus far, I was hoping I could get a wagon started on me and thus maybe catch a few scum being sloppy bandwagoners but that didn't pan out. The issue is the longer I play this way, the more legitimate the case against me will become so sometime tonight I'm gonna have to invest some time in so I'm properly caught up.
As for possible scum reads, at the moment I have layabout since he's been jumping back and forth on reads basically depending on who is active in the thread. He promised a case on vivax and then never followed through.
I'm not vivax's special friend, you're the only person I've masoned thus far.
Original Message From Mr. Wiggles:
I'm not too sure. I'm not really convinced at the moment either of Dr. H or Tofu are scum, at least not enough to lynch them. I felt like the VE case was alright, but as we get closer to the deadline and how people are acting about it, I'm less sure. Lynching someone like Malongo feels like a waste and a coinflip.
I'm a bit back and forth on Strongandbig, and someone else who's sticking out to me a bit now that I'm looking at more filters is Hiro. He's playing very neutrally and making an effort to explain things or ask questions while not really doing too much. For example, he hasn't offered much on who the thinks scum are besides quite lightly pushing Sloosh, but not putting too much effort into getting him lynched. He says he thinks sloosh is scum, votes for him, but in his later posts never mentions him again, even though he isn't leading in votes. It makes it seem like he doesn't care that much who gets lynched.
So, probably one of those two. Strongandbig I'm going back and forth on, and after reading again, Hiro looks scummy.
A better question, is who do you think is scum? If your behaviour is on purpose to see who would call you scum, how am I supposed to think you're town? It's quite WIFOM-y isn't it?
Are you Vivax's special friend?
Original Message From Meapak_Ziphh:
So you're the only person who noticed I was basically playing my scum meta so you're smart enough for me to PM. If you could lynch someone other than me who would it be?
Also keep pushing me in the thread, I'd rather you not reveal I've PM'd you. His excuse for playing as scum the first two days was that it would trick scum into voting for the easy bandwagon. But, with all the flips, that obviously wasn't the case. As for who the SK is, pick your poison. Behaviourally, MZ is incredibly absent. I haven't talked to him much since Day 2, but he hasn't forced the issue of talking to me either, besides one PM. As well, in his PMs with Rayn that got linked, he says "Let's solve the game!", but then he only gives a half-assed read on me and calls Marv an SK. It's clear he doesn't really care about figuring out who scum are. Marv on the other hand has more mechanics evidence against him in the form of the checks. Everyone's yelling he was framed or that MZ is a miller, but an easy explanation is that FirmTofu was framed on Night 1. With two parity cops, a framer isn't impossible, but no one seems to care. Marv is happy to scream that he has a green check, but the checks aren't useful since both only got 2 checks off, so there's no reference for tampering. As well, there looks to be a missing KP on Night 2, and it was on Day 3 that sloosh said Marv checked as an SK. No one claimed the extra KP on Night 1, or on Night 4, and no one claimed a hit on Night 2. So, it's not inconceivable that scum hit him, he didn't die, and they know there's extra KP, so they know there's an SK, and have a good idea that it's him. He's also just OMGUS-ing everyone who calls him scum, which makes him look worse and petulant. So, choose between the guy who doesn't care at all and is sort of floating along, and the guy who seems to care to much and has mechanics evidence against him. If the next scum who knows he's going to be lynched would just come out and tell the thread what mafia know about an SK, it would probably make things easier for their team. The only person who looks exceedingly towny to me is Koshi. Rayn looks ok too, but the pardoner stuff means he should still have a little suspicion on him. My gut's telling me VA looks towny, but maybe not. Kush is probably scum just trying to fit in. I'm not sure what to think of mocsta since he replaced in. His posts look good, but it's not hard to do that when you can start off fresh. I don't see a real case against me, so here's my equally belaboured defense: + Show Spoiler +
also this post basically says "I am scum, gg guys. here's my last chance to fuck with you."
one down
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rayn for sure, since we now are pretty sure scum didn't pardon sloosh there has to be something we are missing there? Or do you think I am wrong? Seems like a possibility that he is some sort of 3rd party pardoning role? I highly doubt there is a 3rd pardoner, that's absurd.
Kush always post one liners and gets left alive this late so I don't find him scummy tbh. He's always pushed for a mislynch in games.
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I just find it amusing that he uses him voting for sloosh day 2 as a defense when everyone was on sloosh day 2, but calls me and kush possible scum when we were on sloosh day 1 and 2.
hu3hu3h3u3. stopped reading after that
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yo I think the host made a mistake, no way that guy was town aligned.
Almost as bad as the gumshoe flip in NWM.
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I'm honestly not scum though Koshi, this is just as frustrating for me. I don't understand why he just lurked all game and decides to start posting after he's dead. Makes zero sense from a town perspective.
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who's martyring? I'm just trying to win the game here.
You just have to realize that just as my theory was wrong, yours also has holes now that we figured out wiggles is town. So please just think about the game for a second if you are town and stop tunneling crazily on me.
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On July 31 2013 01:42 Mocsta wrote:
(1/10)
u guys are jumping around accusing everyone and it does is to create an environment of zero trust.
there are 4 town left, so clearly there are some we can treust.
please, if you want to accuse people then bring out the quote evidence that actually suggests they are scum.
yes.. it sucks wiggles was town... some might say, if vayne was ya #2 read and voted wiggles, why would you follow.
fair question.
I voted wiggles because I didn't like the timing of the afk, and I felt if scum, vayne had no issues to bus and he already voted snb, sloosh etc. so wiggles would be no different.
I didn't vote for SnB yo, given his personality I thought he was town. I was clearly wrong.
Sloosh was obvious as fuck, he's really useful as town.
and fair point, people thought I and wiggles was scum together yet voted with me on him, makes zero sense. guess our answer lies in who switched to wiggles without sufficient reason?
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On July 31 2013 01:53 Mocsta wrote:
(2/10)
vayne
everyone knows kush LOVES to be right and LOVES to bus.
do u find it oddnhe declared wiggles as 70% scum, but wouldn't justify it?
yea I do. I pretty much replaced wiggles with kush in my mind. I really don't see anyone else it could be.
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On July 31 2013 12:14 Mocsta wrote:
(2/25)
sorry Marv, said that in haste
I meant to say
I like koshi as scum2 based on how upset he got when I called kush scum yesterday. will need to reread korynne pm logs though.
and I would rather vote mz than vote Marv currently.
vayne, do u have a preference?
dude, kush bussed his partners every single day. Look at who he was on yesterday.
its obvious as fuck LOL.
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pretty much couldnt have asked for a better flip, thanks SK. I was also suspecting rayn so I thank the scum too
laughed out loud when I read the night actions
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On August 01 2013 00:59 marvellosity wrote:
MZ looks pretty atrocious now that kush has flipped actually.
atrocious xD? try confirmed.
I think that's why the SK shot him. There was no reason to be on MZ by yourself last night unless your fucking kush trying to bus your entire team the entire game. LOLZ
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I just don't see marv faking the sloosh PMs for no reason. He's SK or nothing to me.
I'm pretty sure Koshi is town besides the fact that he was just using vivax as a puppet for a while and the case I made on him early in the game, but a lot has happened since then
Honestly it's either you or marv for SK...so if you are town you should realize that if you truly think marv is the godfather, (which is dumb btw since scum has been hinting they have a rolecop as their last role all game) then idk what to tell you.
Everything points to meapak being the last scum at this point and if meapak flips rolecop scum then we know that marv is some sort of godfather SK role imo.
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read the 3rd paragraph again, im showing you why if you are town, yes you should feel a lot better about an MZ lynch
has the different check from FT.
kush bussed every teammate so far
scum hinted they have rolecop (only 1 scum left, doubtful godfather)
the sloosh PMs
everything points to MZ being the last scum.
Marv can still be godfather SK but that's SO much more unlikely.
Let's keep in mind that with koshi too it's a way less sure thing.
Do you see why MZ is the proper lynch here?
if you can debunk this, i will do whatever you want lol!
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On August 01 2013 01:49 marvellosity wrote:
Vayne is town, Mocsta is SK. Koshi is town. This game is solved as far as I'm concerned.
Mocsta is constantly and consistently pushing me as SK with no rational basis. It makes literally no sense unless he's the SK himself. I'll vote MZ with you though Vayne.
##Unvote
##Vote: MZ
That actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. SK in this scenario would try to push obvious town, then with 4 left hes protected by his BP vest so he just has to hope scum shoots town and he can guess shoot the last mafia freely.
I don't see any other reason for him to push such an unlikely scum candidate
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On August 01 2013 01:54 Mocsta wrote:
the way I see the game is this.
koshi is playing innocent noon town
you and I play a similar town game, in the sense of get into peoples faces. I refuse to think you are SK, and u r certainly not scum. the fact that its only u and me trying to figure this out a deeply suggests we are both town regardless.
this leaves Marv and mz as final two anti town... I don't care who is scum or SK, I just am certain both are anti town.
whosws harder to lynch in general... mz or Marv? my concern is... if we lynch mz... and Marv shoots you or me... that we might not be able to convince koshi to vote with us, as he seems to be a kindred spirit...
that is why I prwgere Marv over mz...
2 scenarios for me I'm gonna try and work with you on this
ok we flip MZ and he's scum.
Marv would have to be a godfather SK role which is extremely unlikely. if he actually rolled that and got the parity cop checks like that then he deserves to win due to sheer luck.
ok we flip MZ and he's SK. Marv would have to be godfather last scum and have faked those sloosh PMs and a bunch of other crazy shit. If he actually went through all that then so be it, but I can't believe that for a second.
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On August 01 2013 02:01 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 01:53 VayneAuthority wrote:On August 01 2013 01:49 marvellosity wrote:
Vayne is town, Mocsta is SK. Koshi is town. This game is solved as far as I'm concerned.
Mocsta is constantly and consistently pushing me as SK with no rational basis. It makes literally no sense unless he's the SK himself. I'll vote MZ with you though Vayne.
##Unvote
##Vote: MZ That actually makes a lot of sense now that I think about it. SK in this scenario would try to push obvious town, then with 4 left hes protected by his BP vest so he just has to hope scum shoots town and he can guess shoot the last mafia freely. I don't see any other reason for him to push such an unlikely scum candidate (9/25) firstly, if u r referring to me pushing Marv.. that means u think he is unlikely antitown? when previously u said SK could be me or him. secondly, you yourself said that scum should have role cop left... who pardoned sloosh then? it's not ideal to assume motives are based on things you can not prove, I.e, bp vest
yea I had a sort of revelation then as to why you might be doing this, doesn't have to be correct. I was wrong about the oats/marv thing.
At this point, as I pointed out in my post above. YES, I find it very hard for marv to be antitown given those 2 scenarios. It's way too ridiculous.
The sloosh pardon is still a mystery, can't wait for endgame to see wtf happened there since rayn was actually town.
BP SK is the most common form of it, so I think it's safe to assume that.
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what does he mean by can we trust the oats check? he flipped town parity cop @_@
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