|
On July 17 2013 23:55 marvellosity wrote:
Typical I replace in for someone easy to read. I have 15 posts total including this waste of a post, so 14 after. I've not been reading at all yet, so proper posts will come later this evening when I've had time to read and digest.
One post that I did read was FirmTofu's large post right at the start of the game. I'm fairly sure Firm did in fact lie at least once as town in his last newbie game, and defended his actions repeatedly in the obsQT of that game. I'm curious to know why the sudden change of heart about not lying as town.
Hi marv, great to have you! My views on lying are contingent upon the setup. As this is a closed setup, there are are greater amount of variables that we need to account for. Thus, lying becomes far too problematic to deal with as town.
On July 18 2013 04:19 gumshoe wrote:
Tofu: We really need to hear about someone other than Dh, what do you think of hapa?
Hapa/Marv is completely null to me. There have been few posts to look at, and none of them were alignment indicative.
gumshoe, I'd like to know why you're discreetly voting me in the voting thread.
I will be voting VE. He hasn't said anything to convince me that he isn't scum and many people share my sentiment of him. He is much more likely to get lynched than DrH and is a far better lynch than slOosh.
##Unvote:DrH
##Vote: VisceraEyes
|
On July 18 2013 06:42 DoctorHelvetica wrote:I'm fairly certain layabout is scum in this game, either that or a blue role playing really scared. It's my policy never to analyze what VisceraEyes is doing. No matter what his role is - I will always come to the conclusion that VE is scum. Every single game I have read (and I have blind read several of his games I have not played with him in) I have come to the conclusion that he is 100% scum without any doubt. My opinion on VE is worthless. I have expressed this sentiment in several games (in which I am town in all of them). So sloOsh is in the hotseat. Fine. I'll look at him in a moment, but I'm not willing to drop it just because town sentiment has changed a little bit. Show nested quote +I don't think FirmTofu is scum. Continuously choosing to attract attention by engaging with DrH seems really difficult for fresh off newbie games-scum to pull off. No one cares or should care about your conspiracy theory. Show nested quote +I checked out the game and I think you have confirmation bias. His first post in Nuclear Winter is ~20 hours into the day, and his mega post is ~32 hours into the day, opposed to less than an hour in this game. I read maybe half of D1 in NWM, and the most he is called out for is inactivity. You're correct. I rescind my meta argument against FirmTofu because I lost sight of the context. Unlike NWM, he is under direct pressure from me in this game which will of course cause him to act differently. However, I think a few things are important. In NWM, he does a good job sticking to the point. He chooses to come swinging out of the gate with a "megapost" which contains absolutely no useful information. I define useful information as anything that will lead to the lynching of scum. Setup analysis is fine Day 1 because it generates discussion -> discussion leads to finding scum. However there is a particular sort of setup analysis/fluff post that comes out Day 1 that is troubling. That is the sort of post that is designed to portray the poster in the towniest light possible without being actually constructive. Rather than reading into the sort of things being said, it's important to look at the tone. In his attacks on me, he has continually misrepresented/twisted my positions/actions and jumped to conclusions rather quickly.
FirmTofu
1. FirmTofu stated that sloOsh was making a consolidated effort to prevent people from PMing.This is false. sloOsh states that people who do not know how to mason constructively, should not do it at all. I do not agree with this point, but it is not a "consolidated effort". It is just sloOsh's position on how PMs should be utilized in a game. I would not be surprised if this is an opinion sloOsh had coming into the game, before he received his alignment. Arguing about this particular statement by sloOsh is absurd.2. FirmTofu states that by claiming the above point, I am thereby giving a strong townread on sloOsh.Ridiculous. I said what sloOsh said didn't mean anything at all. Later in that post I stated "What sloOsh is doing is townier than what you're doing", directed at FirmTofu. This is not the same as claiming I have a strong townread on sloOsh. FirmTofu jumps illogically at the bait - MEANING he is looking for reasons to attack me rather than finding them naturally. sloOsh at that point, at least had offered some advice on how to PM constructively. FirmTofu had only been talking about the traitor role up until that point.3. FirmTofu isn't making a real effort to start a bandwagon on me NOR is he posting cases in a constructive manner.Read FirmTofu's first case on me. It's very reactive, filled with misunderstandings and irrelevant information and thoughts on other happenings/players. A strong characteristic of his play in NWM is the surgical manner in which he approachs his scumreads. A huge majority of the content in his cases is filled with quotes from the accused player, he dedicates his entire post to this approach. Rather, he is being far more vague, accusing me of lying without specifying clearly and constructively what my lie is.Imagine you are town and I am scum in this game. You caught me in (apparently) a very obvious lie. What do you do? There is only one answer. Bring down the hammer of justice. There is no way a town FirmTofu isn't trying very hard to get me lynched right now, unless he is scum. I still don't even know what he is accusing me of lying about, which means he is doing a very unconvincing job of demonstrating what exactly I'm doing wrong. His cases in NWN were way more logical than this and I refuse to believe he simply became much much worse as a town player over the course of a week or so. I already explained why I originally stopped attacking FirmTofu and WHY I changed my mind. When I said I thought FirmTofu was town - this was related to him defending the pressure that was on him early in the game (related to his post about the traitor and nothing else). This occurred BEFORE he made a post calling me out for not attacking sloOsh and then both misrepresenting sloOsh AND myself. There is another window of time here that is critical but I need to reconsult filters to make sure I'm not remembering things wrong. <- If this is my "so called lie", then he's full of shit. When he told me that it was suspicious for not attacking sloOsh for discouraging PMing when I had criticized VayneAuthority for that, I told him "I didn't read sloOsh's post." FT claimed I was probably lying. However, I have no way to prove/argue this otherwise. There is nothing I can point to that would somehow prove I did or didn't read sloOsh's post at the time. But this is a shit argument. Regardless of the fact that they were saying completely different things about the PM mechanics at the time, this is a classic mafia tactic. Someone attacks the lurker who is on your team? Ask them why they're ignoring lurker Y and call them scum! These are shit arguments. No one has the diligence to pressure every player in the game at the same time. Yeah but why would a newbie scum like FT even argue with you?Why not? Why would a scum FirmTofu be particularly afraid of me? I can think of several games in where I had drawn out arguments with scum, newer scum, every type of scum. That's more WIFOM than a meta argument. Some wine is easier to drink. In Arkham City Mafia: scum were assigned specifically to attack/annoy me because Radfield knew my style of play. I tend to get either tunnel-vision in these situations, or lose confidence and become ineffective for the rest of the game. If you start to think of the games in these terms, town already lost. Do yourself a favor and google "no true scotsman". Based on this information I'm inclined to believe that sloOsh is the mafia bandwagon.
DrH, this is more along the lines of what I was looking for from you. I wanted you to deconstruct my posts and point out exactly was scummy. These points are exactly what I would expect from a town member. When you posted your meta argument, I had to continue pursuing you because you didn't form a case on me based on information gathered within this game. I see meta as an easy cop-out that scum use to form cases on people to discredit them.
Although you refused to answer the questions that I have asked you repeatedly and have explicitly stated in numerous posts(there is no ambiguity as to where I believe you lied), I am willing to move you from my list of scum to my list of null reads based on this post alone. Part of my reasoning is that you have slOosh listed as a town read, which I believe is how town would look at slOosh and part of it is because you have deconstructed and analyzed my posts exactly how someone would form a town PoV. Had you made something like this earlier, I would have dropped my case on you immediately.
You may continue to pursue me, but consider your own confirmation bias creeping in. Take a step back and analyze my actions from a town perspective, just as I did yours.
|
On July 18 2013 07:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I just reread your posts and it's absolutely unclear as to what you are accusing me of lying about?
You bring up two things:
1. Me saying I didn't read sloOsh's post
2. Me backing off of you
both of which I have explained at least three times each now. Why won't you tell me what I'm missing?
Okay, I will point out the exact questions that are relevant to the lying.
On July 17 2013 10:56 FirmTofu wrote:
1) Why did you tell Oats, "FirmTofu is confirmed scum." when you backed off of me? We know that you had this conversation after you backed off, but before you started flinging shit at me. I want to know why.
2) Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him as if he was 100% confirmed town? A townie in this position would not be so quick to deduce slOosh's alignment based on one post, so why did you feel the need to defend him so vehemently?
Expanding on my questions:
1) My gripe was not with you backing off of me. That is not alignment indicative. I had a problem with the inconsistency of you backing off of me and sending Oats an completely different message. It indicated that you were lying.
2) I had a problem with your behavior here. You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town.
|
On July 18 2013 07:09 Koshi wrote:
FirmTofu
Would you say that you are playing different from the Nuclear game? If so, what is different?
I would not say I am playing different at all. Stylistically, I am playing exactly the same. I push my reads with no fear. I call people out when I feel that they have inconsistencies in their behavior.
Activity-wise, I would say I have been equally active, if not more active in this game specifically. In NWM, I was busy for most of the weekend and there were more posts to read to it was hard to keep up with the thread. In this game, I am able to stay more active and push my reads because I have less catching up to do.
I am running out of posts. Could I get a small donation from someone? Thanks!
|
On July 18 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace.
If he truly is dayvigi, why can't we ask him to prove it by shooting a lurker? Why doesn't he shoot Ace? I don't see his role claim absolving anything unless he can prove it.
|
On July 18 2013 07:19 marvellosity wrote:I'm not 100% sure I buy Firm's reasoning for switching his stance on lying as town. I don't get why the fact it's a closed setup means that lying is suddenly totally awful, whereas in a semi-open setup you can lie repeatedly. Makes no sense. Further, I don't like how his suspicion of DrH went. By about page 16-17 (I just read the whole game in a row) I was thinking DrH looked really quite town, and Firm's continued suspicion of him seemed pretty off. I also don't like how he's graciously now calling DrH less suspect, without actually responding to DrH's case on him. Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 06:41 FirmTofu wrote:
I will be voting VE. He hasn't said anything to convince me that he isn't scum and many people share my sentiment of him. He is much more likely to get lynched than DrH and is a far better lynch than slOosh.
##Unvote:DrH
##Vote: VisceraEyes *Why* is VE a far better lynch than slOosh? This is just saying things. I literally can't see the rationale for slOosh having played so townie (he hasn't) that he's a much worse lynch than VE. .
Lying is a matter of opinion, so I don't really care whether you "buy" it or not. I am not responding to DrH's case because it has solid points.
I would like to clarify my intentions. Much of my accusations toward DrH were just poking and prodding, trying to elicit some sort of reaction. I tried this on slOosh and I got a town read on him because of it. When I tried it on DrH, I got a completely different response. There were a few inconsistencies in his behavior that I found odd. When he posted his meta case, I was legitimately shocked. I didn't think DrH, whom I consider to a rather rational player, would reek so strongly of confirmation bias. I hold that my play between the two games is stylistically identical, so I found it odd that that was the best argument he could think of to justify a case on me. Because of this, I pursued DrH far longer than I did slOosh.
When DrH posted a rational case against me, I saw it as something that a townie would do. The points against me are completely valid and you should all definitely look at them. If you feel I should defend myself from them, then force me to. However, if you have a town read on me, I would rather not waste time defending myself thereby derailing the thread into a conversation about me which will be unproductive in the long-run (considering that I know I am town).
On July 18 2013 07:21 DoctorHelvetica wrote:You're being inconsistent, and I've already answered both of these questions. 1. I didn't say that. Oats said I said that. Here is what I said (and I've posted the entire PM logs, another reason I think oats is scum.) Here is what I said: Show nested quote +FirmTofu is in a position where he has a direct argument opportunity with me but wants to misdirect attention onto lurkers instead that's bad
if he doesn't respond to what I said about sloOsh because somehow kushm4sta is more interesting then I'm absolutely voting for him. 2. And here is what I said about sloOsh: Show nested quote +On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting!
slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.)
slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way. How could anybody interpret this as a strong townread? Show nested quote + You sounded so confident that slOosh was town after glancing at his post. Why? Only scum could be so certain of such a thing. Considering that was the first time you had ever read slOosh's post, it doesn't really make sense for you to have such a strong reaction if you were town. But I'm NOT REACTING to his alignment. Strongly. Or otherwise. I'm explaining why what he is doing isn't a "consolidated effort". I mention the word townie ONCE! Show nested quote +slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. Scum can easily fake townie perspectives. This hardly counts as a hard and intense reaction. In fact it is much softer and less reactive than your accusation of a "consolidated effort" which is ridiculous considering it is - as you emphasize - a single post. Yet you're calling me a liar here again - Show nested quote +Why did you pretend as if you didn't see slOosh's post and then backtrack and defend him How do you know I pretended? You're assuming - confirmation bias - you were told to attack me and need a reason. You're the one that's backtracking. 1. Do you believe I lied about having missed sloOsh's post initially? 2. Looking at those two posts next to eachother, who's the one really having a strong reaction here? Now you're semi-dropping the argument, you won't concede that I'm not a liar or that I'm town but you can't go after me because you don't actually have any ammunition. Weird.
That is particularly enlightening information about Oats. I'm going to look through his filter in detail. I am dropping the argument, not semi-dropping it. I won't concede that you're not a liar or that you are town, because you still haven't convinced me. This is a game of probability. You have done a good job of decreasing my suspicions, but I am not willing to rule you out as scum based on one post.
You may be unfamiliar with my playstyle, so I will explain. At the beginning of the game, I run through all the posts and try to find the slightest bit of dirt on anyone. I question them about it and if:
1) They fail to respond
2) Give an inadequate answer
I will pursue them further. The reason I'm dropping the case on you is because you gave me an adequate answer. The reason I did not drop the case on you until now is because all of your other posts defending yourself were wholly inadequate.
|
This is my 19th post. I need a few posts please. I am going to unvote tentatively and look through the filters of Oats, Ace, Kholly, Koshi, MZ, and Malongo. I will decide who to vote soon but this list, along with VE, are the primary group of people I'm looking at.
##Unvote: VisceraEyes
|
On July 18 2013 07:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote:That alone is proof to me that you are scum. Will you admit you completely misinterpreted the way I defended sloOsh? You still consider that a really extreme and strong townread? Jesus.
I deliberately exaggerated your defense of slOosh in order to poke for inherent guilt.
If you respond with, "OF COURSE SLOOSH IS TOWN, HOW COULD HE NOT BE TOWN? LOOK AT HIS POST, JESUS CHRIST! OF COURSE HE'S TOWN."
Then I pursue you further. Why? Because scum are more worried about being called liars than they are about their honest motivations.
If you respond with, "Yeah, maybe I shouldn't have been so quick to judge slOosh. You're right, he could definitely be either scum or town, but I'm leaning town atm."
Then I would have dropped the case immediately.
Your reaction to my question was critical to my behavior. I hope you see where I was coming from if you are town. Consider that I currently have a town read on slOosh, who I accused with a similar tactic. There is a reason for this.
|
On July 18 2013 08:21 VayneAuthority wrote:
I think it's safe to say that DrH and FT are not scum together lol. I actually have town reads on both of you so if you could stop arguing and look at some of the other cases presented that would be great. (hypocrite I know after arguing with DrH)
I wish DrH would just drop it. All of this inflammatory posting from him is just pushing him further towards a town read for me. He seems to have some sort of fixation on me because he genuinely believes I am scum. While this unfortunate, I don't think there is anything I can say to convince him otherwise.
I will not respond to any of DrH's inflammatory posting because it is starting to be emotional and irrational. If anyone else actually has some problems with me that they would like me to address, I will address them directly. Otherwise, arguing with DrH is a waste of my time and takes away from legitimate scumhunting.
On July 18 2013 08:22 Vivax wrote:FirmTofu, your introductory post contained this: Show nested quote +I think the lurker policy lynch is always a good one to consider. Although they may not necessarily be the best lynch, they do serve the purpose of setting up the lategame well. We don't want our endgame to suffer from inactivity and these types of lynches should prevent that. Perhaps we could also consider policy lynching people who repeatedly post one-liners. That sort of behavior is largely non-beneficial and we should send a message to everyone that we are not going to tolerate it. I'm expecting you to deliver. Which of the lurkers/ace-style-posters would you pick? Tentatively putting out ace and malongo out there for you to give me an opinion on, would be appreciated thanks. Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 07:18 FirmTofu wrote:On July 18 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
VE claimed america, he claims dayvigi, so leave him alive, or you're dumb or scum. Enough said, now ladies and gents, please switch to someone like ace.
If he truly is dayvigi, why can't we ask him to prove it by shooting a lurker? Why doesn't he shoot Ace? I don't see his role claim absolving anything unless he can prove it. He told me he can only shoot 12 h before lynch, target dies at lynch. Would you take the risk of disrupting a marv-me-VE mason circle and losing a vigi instead of giving him the chance to prove himself tomorrow? At this point obviously you unvoted him, but at the time you had shown reluctance. Here's your fix for your reply, lil junke  ##Donate: 1 post to FT
I am leaning towards Ace. But honestly, there are plenty of good choices. Ace is someone I know can play a better game than what he's doing now, so I'm inclined to call him out on it.
|
On July 16 2013 14:55 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Oh I found his post, yeah he's not saying no one should mason nor is he saying he is refusing to mason which is a really dumb thing to do. Now you're defending Vayne by using misdirection/misinterpretation! Interesting!
slo0sh - don't use mason if you don't know what you're doing. I disagree but there have been terrible consequences for this (coagulation claiming medic to me day 1 of Salem Mafia, me outing every single blue to the godfather in the same game, etc.)
slo0sh is in the SAME post talking about how PMs are invaluable for forming scumhunting circles which is a townie way of looking at it. A single sentence in a single post being a "concerted effort to discourage PMing" is really REALLY misrepresenting what sloOsh is saying in a completely obvious way.
Here is the post that DrH is referring to, if anyone cares to actually read it. He clearly says slOosh has a really townie way of looking at pms.
I exaggerated this statement and said DrH had a strong town read on slOosh so as to elicit a response. DrH responded in kind so I pursued him further.
DrH's whole case against me rests on the statement that DrH had a null read on slOosh after reading slOosh's post. This is clearly not the case as evidenced by the quoted post. This is the last time I am going to be addressing DrH's case against me before night begins. It has wasted far too many of my posts already.
VisceraEyes has still not explained why he claimed and did not prove his role in the face of an imminent lynch. He needs to explain this or my vote will go back to him. In my eyes, VE should be willing to shoot a lurker right now to
1) Confirm his role thus preventing a lynch on a townie
2) Use his vigi shot to eliminate a useless player
Such an action would be extremely beneficial and I honestly have no idea why he isn't doing it if he is truly what he says he is.
As for the time being, I don't necessarily want to lynch Ace. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt about him swapping in, but I will hold him accountable during the night phase and beyond.
The rest of the lurkers are ultimately a coinflip. There isn't much to go off of, so it would just be insurance against an inactive lategame. I am willing to do this, but I would like everyone to consolidate on one lurker so we can offer a suitable alternative to the VE lynch. Thoughts?
I believe this is my last post of the day. I will Vote and Unvote my best reads, but will cease posting. Good luck folks!
P.S. DrH is going to swap out of the game when I die. That'll be fun to watch. :D
|
On July 18 2013 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
My claim came after the deadline to choose a target. I cannot choose a target within 12 hours of the lynch.
I promise you if I'm still alive tomorrow, there will be fireworks tomorrow night.
EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET THE FUCK OFF OF VE NOW. IF HE CAN PROVE HIS ROLE, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO KILL HIM. EVEN SLOOSH WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE.
|
On July 18 2013 11:38 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 11:27 FirmTofu wrote:On July 18 2013 11:22 VisceraEyes wrote:
My claim came after the deadline to choose a target. I cannot choose a target within 12 hours of the lynch.
I promise you if I'm still alive tomorrow, there will be fireworks tomorrow night. EVERYONE NEEDS TO GET THE FUCK OFF OF VE NOW. IF HE CAN PROVE HIS ROLE, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REASON TO KILL HIM. EVEN SLOOSH WOULD BE A BETTER CHOICE. Role /= Alignment. Just FYI, Ver is a huge proponent of this axiom and even if I confirm my role that shouldn't confirm my alignment. Just sayin.
Regardless, if you have a shot, we can coordinate the target and ensure that someone that should die, actually dies. The shot is the primary reason why your life is more valuable than slOosh's right now.
Alright, THIS is my actual last post. 
|
Well, it looks like VE killed himself from where I'm standing. I have no idea why he voted for MZ at the last second, sealing his own fate.
|
On July 19 2013 01:33 gumshoe wrote:Show nested quote +On July 18 2013 12:26 FirmTofu wrote:
Well, it looks like VE killed himself from where I'm standing. I have no idea why he voted for MZ at the last second, sealing his own fate. Wow, so much bad in so few words. 1: Show nested quote + I think the lurker policy lynch is always a good one to consider. Although they may not necessarily be the best lynch, they do serve the purpose of setting up the lategame well. We don't want our endgame to suffer from inactivity and these types of lynches should prevent that Hmm that sounds like a good point, wonder who said that, yeah that was you. And what was Meatpak if not a scummy lurker? He fit your initial preference, whats so scummy about Ve voting for him? Why didnt you consdider doing likewise, you were clearly around during the final hour seeing as you promptly made this jewel of a post. 2: A townie only knows for sure that he is a townie, it is his duty to make sure that he does not get lynched, Meatpak was a viable lynch and would have happened if not for Knolly, are you telling me that if you were in that exact same spot and another likely lynched popped up you would not vote to save yourself? 3: Why are you trying to justify a bad lynch? It happened, it was party your fault yes, but the point is to acknowledge the mistake and see what it means, instead you spend a precious post insulting Ve and defending your own retarded stance. 4: How many times do we need to say this? Ve could have confirmed himself, why would townies feel the need to vote for him right away? Grrrrr scum post detected. Also thanks Marv your the best ( : I don't really need a mason from anyone else anymore.
1) I would have gladly voted Meapak had I known that he was the person with the nighest votes at the time. I thought slOosh was the highest vote count other than VE, so in order to save VE, I voted slOosh.
I was also on my phone at the time so it was hard to count up the votes.
2) I have no idea what you are talking about. Please check the vote counts. If VE had voted slOosh, slOosh would have died instead of VE. My statement was just pointing this out.
3) Where am I justifying the bad lynch? I condemn the VE lynch fully and I think we should take a close look at anyone who voted him.
4) That is exactly my opinion. I think you are misinterpreting my position on the whole issue. I was one of the townies who tried to SAVE VE. I voted slOosh, who had the second highest votes at the time.
I am going to run through a detailed voting analysis similar to what I did in NWM. I will post it soon.
I would like to get people's thoughts on whether I should post a complete list of all my reads. Does anyone think I would be a likely target for scum to kill tonight?
|
On July 19 2013 03:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
@FirmTofu
I find it unlikely. In the scenario that we're both town, a continued argument between us is beneficial to scum. Even if you choose to not engage with me, it will keep my attention on you Day 2 which is another day that mafia won't feel any sort of pressure from me. In the scenario that I'm scum and you're town, there's no reason I can't feign contribution by continuing to push you tomorrow.
I tend to agree. I don't think I will be killed today because my death would make you useful to town again.
On July 19 2013 03:52 raynpelikoneet wrote:
FirmTofu why would you not post your reads? I'm starting to see why DrH thinks you are mafia. You are not doing things in "I am helping town" mindset. You are unsure of what you should do, and rather than doing stuff you think is right you ask people if they think it's wise and act accordingly. That's not how a townie thinks.
Oh, I didn't mean my scum reads. I am definitely going to post those. I wanted to know if you wanted me to post my town reads or if that would just give scum too much information to work with in the event that I do not die.
|
On July 19 2013 03:55 Ace wrote:
posting reads for the sake of posting reads and fake contribution points is stupid. If he isn't sure about his thoughts then he shouldn't post. No one is going to read it anyway if he dies.
I'll probably investigate him tonight anyway.
Did you just claim after shitting on everyone who claimed Day 1?
|
I'm going to post my scumreads. I'll decide later if I want to post my null reads. I probably won't post my town reads.
Proposed Scum:
slOosh
kholly
layabout
Malongo
I'm going to start with slOosh because he is the person that holds this proposed scumteam together. Most of my analysis will focus on the concrete information obtained from the last few hours of Day 1 regarding votes.
slOosh: slOosh never bothered to defend himself when he was faced with an imminent lynch. Many people came to his defense(me included), with little reasoning to justify his survival. slOosh is a borderline lurker and all he has ever done this game is defend himself. There is absolutely no scumhunting in his filter, just see for yourself.
kholly: I think kholly was a significant part of the reason why VE got lynched. By unvoting and voting repeatedly, he confused everyone who was trying to figure out the vote count. He was the only person to waffle between a MZ lynch and VE lynch, indicating that he was apathetic between them.
To top it all off, kholly also happens to have a terrible list of proposed scum in:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=14#267
He never pushes his reads either. If he truly believed these people were scum, as his filter indicates, why didn't he ever try to get them lynched?
layabout:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=14#266
Doesn't think we should share who we pm. Sounds like he is in favor of withholding information.
Wants to kill Vayne because he doesn't use pms. Terrible reasoning. As I mentioned before, Vayne is stating an opinion that he expressed during pre-game. Why should that be alignment-indicative at all?
Defends Malongo, attacks VE
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=19#364
Says he wants to lynch Vivax, but never follows up
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=414884¤tpage=19#379
Overall goal seems to be to keep slOosh alive. I think that if slOosh flips mafia, this guy should be our #1 target.
Malongo: Malongo is inexorably linked to each one of these guys. I have a feeling that because VE tried to attack Malongo, scum decided VE needed to die. All of the above players ganged up on VE in order to push attention away from Malongo.
When push came to shove and VE claimed, these guys decided they should hop on another town wagon to keep slOosh alive. They see Mr. Wiggles voting Mz and decide that he would be an easy target to justify a lynch on.
Note that NONE of these players ever gave a good reason why they thought slOosh was innocent. They barely even talked about slOosh. Why did they vote MZ instead of slOosh if they could never provide a legitimate reason why slOosh wasn't mafia? Consider that voting slOosh would guarantee VE's survival, whereas a vote on MZ was not likely to go through. They would have to be very certain of slOosh's alignment in order to adequately justify voting for MZ, considering the situation.
If they actually wanted to save VE, they would have voted slOosh. Why didn't they?
If slOosh is in fact mafia, this indicates that they are avoiding interacting with their teammates to prevent links being formed between each other.
I think the most critical person to lynch in Day 2 is slOosh. With his alignment, we get a plethora of information about numerous people and the chances of him flipping scum are quite high.
|
On July 19 2013 07:34 marvellosity wrote:
I'm curious, Firm, why slOosh is now a solid scumread when yesterday, based on the same filter, you called him townie and said he was a much worse lynch than VE (before you decided VE was a bad lynch after all)
A few things.
1) slOosh provided an adequate response to my prod. He calmly defended himself and told me PMs were a matter of opinion, which is exactly what I wanted to hear.
2) He was a much worse lynch than VE for the majority of the day based on the information we knew. When VE claimed and said he could not nuke to prove his claim, I had to switch my position on the lynch. His claim moved him into a situation where it was 50/50 whether he was lying. The only difference was that we could use him to kill a potential lurker. If he didn't kill who we wanted him to, we could always lynch him on those grounds.
3) slOosh was defending me in times where I was facing a lot of heat. This made me think he was town because scum would have little to no reason to defend me. They would rather stay in the sidelines and watch the whole argument between DrH and I take it's own course.
I have since reversed my position based on how the votes ended up. The votes are concrete evidence that we can work with so I would rather base my reads off of them than just Day 1 speculations.
|
Well this invalidates my theory. Gives us a huge lead going forward. I'm going to reassess based on yamato's filter. Be back soon.
|
Okay, I'm back. This is bad. We are going to end up wasting an entire day of potential discussion on why I am a good lynch...
Let's go through a timeline shall we...?
Night 1:
Ace claimed investigator by saying he would investigate me.
Ace "investigated" me.
Ace returned with a scum result.
Here's what I know:
I know I am town. I know there is absolutely no reason for a blue role detective to say that he is going to investigate someone in a night phase.
Here's what I think is happening:
Ace deliberately hinted that he was a detective early on so that when he pushed for my lynch the following day and I slipped town, he can run around saying I got framed.
Why will people believe this?
Because Ace hinted at his role and I was an obvious framer target.
For scum Ace, this is a win-win situation. He wastes an entire day by focusing a lynch on a town member AND he has an out to fall back on when I flip town, giving him a decent chance of surviving for a few additional nights.
Could Ace be town detective? Sure.
Is it likely that Ace would play so poorly as town by targetting the obvious framer target? No.
##Vote: Ace
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
