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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Paranoia Mafia
On December 02 2012 08:25 Blazinghand wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2012 08:24 austinmcc wrote:On December 02 2012 08:19 Blazinghand wrote:On December 02 2012 08:18 austinmcc wrote:On December 02 2012 08:17 Blazinghand wrote:
DYH is definitely not above suspicion. I just don't lynch claimed blues D1. But the way he claimed was probably... the worst possible way to claim and the least useful for town. That's fine, but...I did not expect posts like these from you guys: On December 02 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote:
Well at least we didn't lynch the vigi. Damn DYH you ass you needed to claim much earlier than that. Now at least one of you/marv will be able to get your night action done though :D On December 02 2012 08:12 marvellosity wrote:
DYH needs to make sure he claims his shot pre-deadline Both are ... more certain than I like? that DYH is a vigi Um, look dude DYH needs to make these claims specifically because he's a scummy ass and quite possibly not a vigi. He is not confirmed. He is not a town-read in my book. : On December 02 2012 08:11 Blazinghand wrote:
Well at least we didn't lynch the vigi. Damn DYH you ass you needed to claim much earlier than that. Now at least one of you/marv will be able to get your night action done though :D In your initial post, you didn't say "Claim your shot so we know." You were relieved we didn't lynch "the vigi." Not "the claimed vigi." Not "someone who might be vigi." Not "now we can figure out if that's a real claim or fakeclaim." Read that post of yours, your first one. It doesn't say unconfirmed, it doesn't hedge, it is absolutely certain that DYH is a vigi. Whatever, it's a wording thing. Scumslips don't exist.
On December 03 2012 15:54 Blazinghand wrote:
Also: scumslips don't exist.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Like, I "scumslip" all the time as town, and apparently an unusually high amount of the time as a blue. I was lucky that some of those times my claims were rocksolid or I had a good start rather than a bad start. This time, my claim is Mason and people are positing I'm a scum masoner (or am just fakeclaiming entirely in cahoots with marv) so my position is weaker. That being said, I beat the jubjubs trying to mislynch me those times, AND I'LL DO IT THIS TIME TOO.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Also: I have never scumslipped as scum. hah!
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 12:51 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 12:46 Blazinghand wrote:Mario Mini Mafia:http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=16895808On November 14 2012 07:06 Blazinghand wrote:
Scumslips don't exist. Townies "scumslip" as much as scum do. There are scum mindsets and scum ways of doing things, but revealing "extra info" or telling someone you're scum inadvertently happens equally to scum or town. It's self-serving of me to mention this, but it's also true. I know scumslips are real, having made them myself and by catching mafia with them, and i can tell the difference between something a townie could make and scum could make. Furthermore a townie wouldn't work so fast in covering their tracks. I would expect a townie to be like WTF??!?!? in a similar way that WoS reacted to me calling you out. You reacted in the exact same way you said you did as scum in the post game for "the game?". When you say something scummy you try and immediately call it out yourself so as people can;t call you out for it. Obviously I am not going to convince you you are scum. So I am ending this discussion. I will talk to townies about this.
No, you will continue to talk to me about it. your goal isn't to convince me, it's to present arguments that I can rebut or not rebut. This is the way you will shape your case to be the strongest, if I am scum, and it's the way my defense will become the strongest, if I'm town. You don't get to opt out of this discourse. You don't get to call me scum without reacting to my points. You won't convince anyone that way, and given that you must acknowledge at least the possibility that I'm town, you won't find the truth if it does turn out I'm town.
Play right and debate with me.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
It is a valid point that I am a solid scum player and will point out my own errors to defuse the strength of them, by the way-- and I take this into advisement. But, on the other hand, there's another completely reasonable explanation for my post, which is that I'm town and I was like "oh, hey there could be 4 scum actually" and wrote that post. Does this mean the post is evidence that I'm town? not, but it's not evidence that I'm scum.
It's also worth noting I have only ever "scumslipped" as a blue, and have done so previously also as a mason. I have never scumslipped as scum or as a VT. Could this be my first time? Sure. But I'm an extremely solid scum player, and my blue play-- especially in a game like this with a rough start-- has holes in it. I post quickly and without always reading everything, since I am fearless, whereas as scum I post carefully, even when I am spamming.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 12:56 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 12:46 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 20 2013 12:41 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 12:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 20 2013 12:38 DarthPunk wrote:Lynch blazinghand tomorrow. I'm not joking around with you. On May 20 2013 12:34 Blazinghand wrote:
also there could be 4 scum instead of 3 scum which I guess makes more sense for a 16 player game This. Is exactly what he does when he slips as scum. Says it himself so it doesn't look so bad. IT IS STILL AS SLIP. Explain it to me like I'm an idiot. How is what he said about Night 3 a scumslip? I assumed this game was a 3-scum game. If this were a 3-scum game, by night 3 I'll have masoned a 3rd person, it's no longer possible we're all scum together. The OP Does not state the number of scum, and for 16 players 4 would be more normal. DP assumes that I assumed 3 scum due to outside knowledge (ie being in the scum QT) and is attacking me based on that. So the scumslip is based on the fact that you'd only be masoning other scum players..? What? Oh wait I think I get it...basically your assumption was that DP thought you were fakeclaiming mason. Alright makes sense. DP it seems really unlikely that BH would fakeclaim mason for the reasons he stated. He's right in that he'd basically have to be scum mason to be even remotely safe with that claim. Are you absolutely sure he's scum just based on the perceived slip? NO. The scumslip is this. I wanted BH to mason someone of the towns choosing so as to confirm he was a mason beyond all doubt. He then said he would be confirmed town after 3 nights because that would be the point that he was going to mason more people than were in his scum team implying extra knowledge of a scum team of 3. This is a slip because. He knows the size of the scum team. (3) The obvious scum team size assumption is 4 in a 16 player game. He then fucking tries to cover it up by saying this himself which he has just recently stated that is exactly how he deals with stuff that makes him look scummy in a recent postgame.
Despite the fact that you have a very warped view of my play this past page and a half, yes, the alleged "scumslip" is that I assumed the size of the scumteam was 3 rather than 4.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
In fact, given that there's probably 4 scum, you might even call that post a "townslip"
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:08 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 13:07 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:05 s0Lstice wrote:
DP, trying to think through this.
You are saying this slip means BH is a scum masoner? Yep. Why would he then say that he would be confirmed town after X nights when he knows that we are all aware that this is a closed set-up with the possibility of any role in play...even scum masoner?
The idea (and it is a bad idea) is that I forgot about that part, (and this is more believable than me forgetting it as town).
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
The point is, I finally got my head above the flood of jub-jubbery in this thread and then I fucked up and scumslipped (as town, mind you!)
Like you gotta admit if you did this as town you'd feel that same way
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:17 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 13:15 Blazinghand wrote:
The point is, I finally got my head above the flood of jub-jubbery in this thread and then I fucked up and scumslipped (as town, mind you!)
Like you gotta admit if you did this as town you'd feel that same way nope. I would call you all fucking idiots because I didn't scumslip if I was town. or act confused like WoS was initially.
OK but you gotta admit if I did this as town, this is how I'd act, and have historically acted.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:22 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 13:15 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:08 s0Lstice wrote:On May 20 2013 13:07 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:05 s0Lstice wrote:
DP, trying to think through this.
You are saying this slip means BH is a scum masoner? Yep. Why would he then say that he would be confirmed town after X nights when he knows that we are all aware that this is a closed set-up with the possibility of any role in play...even scum masoner? Because scum masoners are rare and he is trying to leverage his role into town cred. Remember his mason claim is all that saved him and most of us were operating under the assumption that he was town mason. Also people say confirmed town all the time for stupid reasons. I choose to view it as meaningless posturing. Yea I get the leverage argument...but I'm saying there is no leverage to be had since we all have discussed the closed set-up. Rare or not, its in play, so the town has to consider it. Like, we already have talked about how the mason claim isn't alignment indicative. I suppose it makes sense though. It also proves BH hasn't been reading the thread. If he had been diving filters, he'd know there aren't just 12 players (and hence 3 scum as per normal), and that assumption would not have arisen.
Assuming I'm town, it proves I haven't been reading the thread. If you think it's a legit scumslip, it says nothing about whether or not I'm reading the thread.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I'd like to rehash both of these points, which I believe DP has not adequately addressed.
On May 20 2013 12:56 Blazinghand wrote:
It is a valid point that I am a solid scum player and will point out my own errors to defuse the strength of them, by the way-- and I take this into advisement. But, on the other hand, there's another completely reasonable explanation for my post, which is that I'm town and I was like "oh, hey there could be 4 scum actually" and wrote that post. Does this mean the post is evidence that I'm town? not, but it's not evidence that I'm scum.
It's also worth noting I have only ever "scumslipped" as a blue, and have done so previously also as a mason. I have never scumslipped as scum or as a VT. Could this be my first time? Sure. But I'm an extremely solid scum player, and my blue play-- especially in a game like this with a rough start-- has holes in it. I post quickly and without always reading everything, since I am fearless, whereas as scum I post carefully, even when I am spamming.
DP, you've laid out a very convincing case for how scum blazinghand could make that post I made where I commented there could be 4 scum. I agree: scum Blazinghand could definitely write a post like that. Where i think you've fallen short is where you demonstrate that this isnt' something I do as town. I do this kind of "write something, then add some additional observation" thing, ALL THE TIME as town. So yes, the "BH is scum" narrative fits that post, but you have not demonstrated that the "BH is town narrative" does not. Therefore, although I don't consider that post a towntell, it is NOT a scumtell. I could, and do, write posts like that as both alignments, including after "scumslips" as town.
And I think the fact that I scumslip often, revealing "scum only" information as town, and especially as Blue, is HIGHLY relevant to this conversation.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:29 s0Lstice wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2013 13:24 Blazinghand wrote:On May 20 2013 13:22 s0Lstice wrote:On May 20 2013 13:15 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:08 s0Lstice wrote:On May 20 2013 13:07 DarthPunk wrote:On May 20 2013 13:05 s0Lstice wrote:
DP, trying to think through this.
You are saying this slip means BH is a scum masoner? Yep. Why would he then say that he would be confirmed town after X nights when he knows that we are all aware that this is a closed set-up with the possibility of any role in play...even scum masoner? Because scum masoners are rare and he is trying to leverage his role into town cred. Remember his mason claim is all that saved him and most of us were operating under the assumption that he was town mason. Also people say confirmed town all the time for stupid reasons. I choose to view it as meaningless posturing. Yea I get the leverage argument...but I'm saying there is no leverage to be had since we all have discussed the closed set-up. Rare or not, its in play, so the town has to consider it. Like, we already have talked about how the mason claim isn't alignment indicative. I suppose it makes sense though. It also proves BH hasn't been reading the thread. If he had been diving filters, he'd know there aren't just 12 players (and hence 3 scum as per normal), and that assumption would not have arisen. Assuming I'm town, it proves I haven't been reading the thread. If you think it's a legit scumslip, it says nothing about whether or not I'm reading the thread. Yes it does. Scum BH would not have claimed to be confirmed town after 3 nights if he had been reading the thread. We are all factoring in the possibility of a scum mason.
OK let me lay it out more clearly. Scum BH would have scumslipped to reveal there are only 3 scum, right? But Scum BH IS IN A QT WITH TWO OTHER PLAYERS. This means he has heard them speculate about the 3p menace (since a 3-man scumteam in a 16-player normal mini immediately is aware there is at least 1 SK) and specifically mention the game size. If I am scum, the fact that I posted this "slip" has nothing to do with whether or not I was reading the thread. Scum BH knows there is a 3p in the game (or really really super dooper strongly suspects it) since his partners were like "wtf why are we only 3 in this 16 man game. He KNOWS it's a 16-man game, because it was a relevant point of the initial discussions of the scum QT. If I'm town, yes, it means I haven't filter-dived. But IF YOU THINK THE SCUMSLIP IS LEGIT you have no reason to think I'm unaware of the game size, since, well, you think I'm scum. Not that any of this is relevant to proving that I'm town, but you're wrong and you need to be informed that you're wrong.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 13:35 DarthPunk wrote:
I have to admire blazinghand's method of diffusing the situation by being hyper aware of everything and explaining it for people. Doesn't stop him being scum. It is his default tactic for shit like this.
This observation is true, but it's what I do as scum OR town. Although it's true it's not a towntell for me, my attempts to be helpful are not a scumtell either.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
I'd like to take an additional moment to rehash DP's "damage control" critique of my play, since he harped on it quite a bit. He notes that I immediately took steps to defuse the situation or to note my own "scumslip", stating that this is something I do as scum. I've said it once, and I'll say it again: I do this as all alignments. First off, anyone who's read any of my games knows I follow up big, quickly-typed-out posts with small comments, changes, or retractions ALL THE TIME. I do this as scum, I do this as town, I do it for big things, I do it for little things. I've done it for "scumslips" as town, as I've noted this in the thread and I'll be glad to show me backtracking things in all my other games. I'll even see if I can find some "scumslips" I've successfully backtracked as town without anyone noticing. But the fact that I reacted to this calmly when that's just what I do is not alignment-indicative.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
God what kind of stupid mini game has 4 scum in it anyways
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
wow all my filters are so fucking bullshit to read, i have no idea how anyone analyzes my play
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
Yamato please explain in detail your reasoning to me, and let me try to convince you I'm town. how does that sound?
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
If there is a vigi contemplating shooting me to save town an "obvious" lynch, don't do it. I will talk my way out of this one, and you will be glad you didn't shoot me. Trust me. At least check back on the thread before the end of the night and read what I've said and seriously think about whether or not you want to shoot me. I'm sure I can convince you personally and the rest of the thread not to lynch me, and the future you who is convinced I'm town will be glad the past you didn't shoot me.
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Blazinghand
United States25563 Posts
On May 20 2013 15:10 yamato77 wrote:
I don't like you already.
You make an apparent scumslip and act SCUMMY AS FUCK afterward.
I think you should die.
Seems easy enough.
Ok, describe SPECIFICALLY which part of my actions are scummy, and why. If for no other reason to collect town cred when I flip red! I feel like I've debunked all of DP's points but I'd like to hear what someone other than him has to say
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EPT
