Carnival Cruise Mafia

On May 13 2013 04:40 ObviousOne wrote:
We have a miller claim. He is either:

Miller and will show up red
Mafia and will show up red
Or
Godfather or gaming with a framer role as mafia to bait a check

So potential cop(s) has one less person to check and a potential parity cop(s) knows to steer clear.

Ergo, as I said, analysis will be your salvation.

On May 13 2013 05:00 DarthPunk wrote:
I believe it was optimal for me to claim and prevent cops potentially wasting a check on me when I can just claim and then you all can discuss in the thread what to do. Information denial only assists mafia.

I understand that there are different schools of thought about claiming miller. But I am of the school that believes it is optimal to claim miller straight away and then get vigged or something worst case scenario rather than getting checked, wasting that check, going 'oh yeah I'm a miller guise don't lynch me' and then wasting a mislynch.

Also it is incredibly unlikely that I as scum decided to fake claim immediately N0 for literally no reason. I am good at playing scum and frankly don't need to resort to cheesy shit like that.

They only way I would claim miller like this was if I was, in fact, a miller and therefore town.

Also it is incredibly unlikely that I as scum decided to fake claim immediately N0 for literally no reason. I am good at playing scum and frankly don't need to resort to cheesy shit like that.

On May 13 2013 05:03 chaoser wrote:


So you're against us wasting a check and then possible lynch on you but you're ok with us using a vigi on you? is that what you're saying?



that's a wine in front of me thing isn't it (i forgot that acronym...)

On May 13 2013 05:02 Vivax wrote:
Any conclusions from the reactions to your miller claim brah?

On May 13 2013 05:53 ObviousOne wrote:
I do not smell bad. I took a shower last night. And shame on you for sniffing me in public.

On May 13 2013 06:04 ObviousOne wrote:

No u?

Your only claim to towniness is your "miller" claim. Mocsta tried that "I will be transparent with my actions" line and he ended up flipping scum at endgame so I'll just take that as a scum claim from you as well because fuck it, that's my prerogative. Town never needs to say that shit because they just do it by action and it's plain as day to anyone thinking about the game. You do it with words and not actions. You are scummy as fuck with this nonsense.

On May 13 2013 08:39 Blazinghand wrote:
get dunked

On May 13 2013 14:14 Blazinghand wrote:
The problem that like you and 90% of the TL Mafia community have is that you look for complex scenarios, for WTHTD, when really most of the time you should just assume things went relatively simply. This is a fairly large game with 5 scum. Games this size, scum tends to have 2 kp. Two people flipped.

Barring a vigi claim, or like a vet claim or something weird like that, the simplest thing to think, the thing that requires the fewest butt-retarded assumptions that literally everyone but me likes to make, is that scum used 2 kp and killed 2 people, who are the guys who just flipped. I'll update this view if new information emerges, but as it is I consider the matter closed. I'm right and you guys are wrong.

On May 15 2013 06:30 ObviousOne wrote:
You offered to listen. Why say that nobody is listening to you in a conversation with me? I already read the thread once yes. I simply can't be useful today. Maybe I will have some insight later when I get my brain back and this headache is gone.

Someone was talking about preflip associations. The cure is to flip someone. Not hard. IML is so good.

On May 15 2013 06:44 WaveofShadow wrote:

lol we're not lynching OO today either, and if we do it certainly won't be because of you.

I miss Prom.

On May 14 2013 15:09 Oatsmaster wrote:

bleh.
Choose a dude. Point out 2 things that make him scum.
GOOO

On May 13 2013 06:11 prplhz wrote:
@kitaman27 Hey! How's your stance on this whole miller thing?

Why isn't Viscera "MostActiveGuyInMafia" Eyes around?

On May 14 2013 00:54 prplhz wrote:
@slOosh You suck

On May 15 2013 08:15 ObviousOne wrote:
I buddied you first VE.

On May 15 2013 07:02 ObviousOne wrote:
Vayne is the wrong lynch today, VE. See his other ongoing newbie game that we can't talk about and you will see why.

On May 15 2013 08:09 ObviousOne wrote:
I don't like it and I think I'll vote to lynch you now that I've reviewed your filter. Nothing in Prplhz filter says scum to me right now. Your point about Kita interaction means precisely nothing. Saying you suck to slOosh is null. Two null points do not a scum read make. This is a staggering fabrication while you yourself remain distanced and full of "logic" but your logic is faulty and a such you are either willfully pushing a bad lynch or you are simply not aware that most players here are friendly with each other and that basic interactions are useful not only to determine alignment but to greet each other when they haven't played together in some time.

##unvote Sinani
##vote VayneAuthority

On May 15 2013 11:52 ObviousOne wrote:
Vote for Vayne!

He literally claimed scum in his back and forth with Prome.

If you disagree say why, and then vote Hiro or me or WoS or anyone really just take a stance cause I want to have something to analyze tonight.

Stances people. Take them. Only mafia has any reason to have no strong opinions. Are you mafia? Then have no strong opinions so we can lynch you tomorrow.

On May 13 2013 05:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:


I dunno what to make of it. Maybe he will explain it, maybe not, i'll judge later. I'm more interested in DP defending his claim as "what only townie would do" and then saying he is a good scum player and would never draw attention to himself like that as scum. If he thinks this is optimal town play, why so defensive?

And calling people who think claiming miller is scummy stupid/scum is ridiculous. I would atm lynch him based purely on that.

On May 13 2013 05:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Well everyone who has posted so far besides you are probably town. I'm off to bed, cya tomorrow.

On May 13 2013 16:51 Promethelax wrote:


OO is scum because I haven't liked the movement of his thoughts. The kill thing you are misunderstanding entirely. He says that scum could have killed DP because they thought that DP was 3p (something I hadn't considered myself). I couldn't think of a good reason to kill town dp from a scum pov since there was pressure on him but OO had the reason ready made. Scum know why they shot who they shot. Make sense?

On May 13 2013 16:56 Oatsmaster wrote:

No? Scum doesnt want to kill 3P day 1.
I said he was vigged. So am I scum too because I have a readymade reason why scum didnt shot DP?

On May 15 2013 12:49 Ace wrote:
VayneAuthority[L-8]: ObviousOne

On May 15 2013 08:09 ObviousOne wrote:
I don't like it and I think I'll vote to lynch you now that I've reviewed your filter. Nothing in Prplhz filter says scum to me right now. Your point about Kita interaction means precisely nothing. Saying you suck to slOosh is null. Two null points do not a scum read make. This is a staggering fabrication while you yourself remain distanced and full of "logic" but your logic is faulty and a such you are either willfully pushing a bad lynch or you are simply not aware that most players here are friendly with each other and that basic interactions are useful not only to determine alignment but to greet each other when they haven't played together in some time.

##unvote Sinani
##vote VayneAuthority

On May 15 2013 11:54 Blazinghand wrote:


Okay, I'm really dumb and can't find him literally claiming scum. Do you mean he literally figuratively claimed scum, or did he actually literally claim scum? Like are you talking about (this post) or what

On May 15 2013 07:02 ObviousOne wrote:
Vayne is the wrong lynch today, VE. See his other ongoing newbie game that we can't talk about and you will see why.

On May 14 2013 03:04 ObviousOne wrote:
Oh does this mean you are more busy than last game, Rayn? I'll keep that in mind then.

As far as my comment, it's exactly what it said. You asked a shit load of questions last game as town and it worked very well for a) me seeing that we were having similar thought processes and b) you generated a lot of things to analyze by prodding people. I wasn't seeing that from you so far here but if that's due to a change in your schedule then that potentially changes my expectations of town you in this scenario.

On May 14 2013 01:11 strongandbig wrote:

this may be the single worst post in the thread

On May 14 2013 01:16 strongandbig wrote:


how did this go by without any comment

not having played in many games with vote stealers before I don't know what the analysis is, but why would someone steal oats's vote? instead of someone who is actually good at finding scum?

Does fakeclaiming having your vote stolen give an excuse to insta-hammer someone? it seems like a decent scum tactic.

I really don't like the way this claim went down.

On May 14 2013 01:18 strongandbig wrote:


the way this is treated is nonsensical from a town point of view. if you think you found a scumslip you should go for the throat. like, it doesn't matter that this makes no sense, i've thought things were scumslips before that turned out not to be. but the way it's put across doesn't make any sense from a town point of view. either he's just saying things for the sake of saying them or he's throwing out a "scumslip" to see who bites. do not want.

On May 14 2013 01:19 strongandbig wrote:


i mean then there's this

On May 14 2013 01:20 strongandbig wrote:


and we return to the single worst post in the thread.



so @sloosh's question from above i'll look at the other dudes in a minute but my thoughts on oatsmaster are no gusta.

On May 16 2013 03:31 ObviousOne wrote:

You might be waiting a few games to get a full fledged meta case on Vayne. You know, considering this is game 2 for him on this forum here on this account as far as I am aware. If you call me saying him reacting emotionally to Prom when he said that's what he does as town in this very game (and a far as I'm aware that is where this concept originates, that he will get emotional as town when he is headed for a mislynch), why should I believe it?

So I take his last game and his explanation from his play there and extend it to here and I'm left with conflicting ideas brought up by his own design that he essentially is authoring his own meta on a game by game basis. All I have to go on is his own word regarding this and that's why I don't trust it as it makes me wonder why it is that you DO. If I precluded my own play this game with "I only get demotivated about the game as town" and then did what I did, would you honestly take my word for it they I pre-emotes my actions with reasoning?

Besides all that, meta is icing on the cake and not a sole basis for my case. His points regarding Prp were null, not scummy, and I wanted to hang him for lynching Prp for basically manufactured reasons. His emotional response at 3 votes is absolutely out of this world incongruent with the game state.

On May 15 2013 18:00 ObviousOne wrote:
Earlier in the game I posted that I had some suspicion on SNB for lack of scum hunting. He ended up tunneling Oatsmaster a lot. I still think this is a scumslip:


His points against Oats:

-for oats wanting to kill people with anti town attitudes (i see nothing wrong with oats' opinion on this)
-for oats claiming his vote was stolen (he's not hiding information from town, why expose there was a vote steal if his mafia teammate has it?)
-for oats using flavor (role name given to player) to determine scumslips (okay that's crazy by oats, but crazy is not alignment indicative for oats lol, and it was an amusing angle in looking at Rayn)
-for helping to get a wagon on WOS started (at least spurring the town to action, intent is to get people to take sides on a wagon, progressive move)

In short, I find his case/points garbage and I want other people to take a look at him to hear if they think his points are garbage.

On May 16 2013 00:25 shirokami wrote:


Im waiting for more than words against words.

On May 16 2013 04:04 ObviousOne wrote:

He has played thread police and that's about as useful as he's been, from memory. I too would like to see more.

On May 16 2013 05:22 ObviousOne wrote:
I'll read back on Chaoser when Judge Judy is over.

On May 17 2013 08:15 ObviousOne wrote:
Let's also consider that the entire mafia team (that was present) had already voted for me.

Day 1 votes
Voting for OO:
Prome - town read
Hiro - null read, closer to town than mafia, going to green for now, also BH doesn't want to talk about him for some reason or at least not with me and that factors in
Rayn - town flip
VA - town flip
sloosh - null read, need to dive him at some point
BH - ??? not scum with WoS, tunneling and being generally useless otherwise, of him and WoS I would put him at scum.
WoS - ??? not scum with BH, defending pretty hard, reads townie to me, of him and BH potentially being mafia I would go with BH but BIAS.
SNB - casts some doubt on VE but wants to flip me or Oats first. Oats getting his vote stolen is somehow reflects as summy on him? Not buying what you're selling here.
VE - scum read

Potentially 4 mafia already on my wagon from my current feel for the game. With 2 completely inactive (sinani, BM) one of those could potentially be scum, so we'll see about that later. Then there's the idea that they have been discussing "why didn't mafia vote for OO if he's going to be a mislynch?" when in fact the simplest answer is that the active mafia already WERE on my wagon. Voting on a policy wagon apparently doesn't reflect poorly on the voters when the offended policy is martyring so I would imagine mafia would have felt comfortable lynching me without worrying about it. A mafia team that is comfortable with defending themselves from the repercussions of a policy lynch would have no qualms piling on, and fuck with vote analysis down the lane.

On May 17 2013 11:40 VisceraEyes wrote:

Srsmode Oats, daddy's home. This trolly shit stops now.

On May 17 2013 13:27 ObviousOne wrote:

VE tell me about Oats, brother.

On May 17 2013 13:58 ObviousOne wrote:
You're a spirited person today, Oats. I would say in exceptionally good spirits. Perhaps you are mafia and enjoying what is looking to be a flawless victory?

On May 17 2013 18:33 prplhz wrote:
Okay I really want to lynch kushm4sta.

The guy hasn't notably pushed anything hard this game. He's fine being lurkish and just poking in here and there. I don't really find that to be scummy in itself but it's not a town tell either.

What my problem with kusm4sta is is how he's focused on himself and how he himself appears and not about other people. This is especially prevalent in his early game with posts like this and this and this. Those posts have only one purpose: showing people that he doesn't care about how he appears, but by being so blatant about it becomes apparent that he very much cares about how he appears to other players.

Contrast his early posts from Dessert Mini Mafia where he was town. In this post which is one of his very first he comes out pretty strong with a "I'm going to tell you a scum read in a second", there's no focus on how he appears but focus only on contributing.

Read for yourself, the filters are pretty short:
Dessert Mini Mafia
This game

I also find this post very off. First of all he is promising us something very insubstantial: "more activity", it's really hard to hold people up on that. He's also promising it to us "second half of the game" but when is that? This game could end in a few days or it could drag on until 3 players left. He's promising us nothing and at a time no townie knows when is. I imagine townies who were busy would say "I am busy this weekend, will post something after" or something like that, not say "I am busy for the first half of the game"?!

And then look at his latest post:


First kushm4sta says that WaveofShadow spams as scum but he has absolutely no way to know this as WaveofShadow has never been scum. He is literally making things up here and there is NO townie motivation for this. His response also seems really nervous in that he makes a weird jokish comment on it like it means nothing when WaveofShadow has actually caught him in a direct lie that no townie would ever make.

Would you as town ever say that someone is acting like last time he was scum, when he has never rolled scum before? He also says it in a weirdly reassuring manner "Don't worry guys, just lynch him".

Anyway, lets lynch kushm4sta.

##Vote kushm4sta

On May 19 2013 19:23 ObviousOne wrote:

QUOTED FOR JUSTICE

Vivax would hate it if I didn't post this, I'm pretty sure. I just remembered that I have a boner for his town play and this sprung to mind.

On May 17 2013 14:13 Blazinghand wrote:
Unless you LITERALLY have a red check on Kushm4sta, your case against him MUST include meta. Every game this guy plays as town everyone says "omg kush is scum" and mislynch him. He always looks like scum, he's easy lynchbait, we are not lynching him unless he's doing something this game that's different than a normal kush town game, and is something he does as scum.

Anyone who makes case against kush that does not include a cop claim or a meta component, I will immediately vote you.

On May 18 2013 19:52 Promethelax wrote:
Sloosh is scum, hasn't cared about a lynch before but now we're in what scum probably thought was mylo he chainsaw defends BH and pushes through hiro lynch. Sorry I wasn't here to make this lynch land on scum. Assuming the game doesn't end tonight lynch into bh/sloosh tomorrow. If I'm alive I'll lead you on this road.

On May 18 2013 07:15 Blazinghand wrote:


ok so there's two big things about prplhz, but only one that I consider seriously a thing I'm lynching him for.

First, and this is the important one, prplhz is pushing a lynch on kush that he MUST know is bad. he has stated repeatedly that he thinks kush is objectively scummy, but refuses to give a complete meta read on him. If presented with evidence that kush is ALWAYS objectively scummy, reasonably you'd back off, make a meta read, claim a red check, or state you want to lynch him for policy reasons. If you don't do any of these, you haven't actually demonstrated that kush is scum and not town. If you're not interested in doing any of these, then you are not interested in finding out if kush is scum or not.

Basically, prplhz wants to lynch kush. Why? Well, prplhz claims it's because he thinks kush is scummy, but it's completely clear that nothing kush is doing this game is scummier than normal kush play. Prplhz says "well, he's more self-focused this game!" but doesn't give the evidence to show this as a legitimate meta read. He doesn't even say he wants to policy lynch kush. Why is he voting kush? Because he doesn't want to take part in the serious discourse/wagons (OO, WoS, and for some reason VE and HiroPro) and by voting kush he looks like he's doing something.

It's completely clear what's going on here-- prplhz is opting out of the town discourse by voting kush.

On May 20 2013 15:47 kushm4sta wrote:
grush57
slOosh
kushm4sta
strongandbig
shirokami
VisceraEyes
prplhz
ObviousOne
WaveofShadow
Oatsmaster
Promethelax

On May 16 2013 13:40 shirokami wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +

I just lost my hope on BH and vivax seems like a good guy, and I also want to see you hang buddy. Im like a the tramp dog from dat disney movie, on monday I eat at this italian who gives me pizza, next day I eat at donnie's who gives me some chicken. Im not a genius, I dont make posts that are hard to read because they are too long and full of emotional or useless bullshit, I dont say someone is scum because of his meta. I just like to agree with the towniest guy there is. BUT I will tell my OWN opinion when I seem it is necessary. but now, it is N1 and thx to some stupid people there were no-lynch. The NK will tell us something, And If I have an opinion about it, I will post it. My filter is short, and rayn and vivax can already tell that im town based on it, do you know why? IT IS EASY TO READ.

On May 15 2013 16:19 Vivax wrote:
________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Nice voting fail
How can people bring up new lynch targets so close to deadline? Looking at the late vayne pushers here.

Vayne reacting openly anti-town is worth nothing though.

I wonder, why does nobody wonder that scum OBVIOUSLY wasn't pushing the WoS wagon? Unless you think me, BH and Shiro are scum, it gives you a good picture, but Shiro is confirmed town in my book, so lynch WoS please.

On May 15 2013 02:36 raynpelikoneet wrote:
yeah that's all i need, shirokami is town.

On May 19 2013 19:23 ObviousOne wrote:

QUOTED FOR JUSTICE

Vivax would hate it if I didn't post this, I'm pretty sure. I just remembered that I have a boner for his town play and this sprung to mind.

On May 21 2013 22:19 ObviousOne wrote:

Explain it like this is my first mafia game ever.