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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
My theory on Palmar's "I'm confirmed town":
Palmar isn't mod-confirmed anything but a liar. I'll grant you that the act alone of lying so boldly to town speaks more toward a townPalmar than a scum Palmar, but this isn't a vacuum and there are other factors. First: Palmar did nothing with the discussion that was generated by his stunt. Second: If argued that his stunt was rendered ineffective due to mod-tampering, Palmar hasn't commented on a single thing that has happened in the thread OUTSIDE of his stunt, and this has been a relatively active start.
Regarding DP, I didn't like his +1 to Vivax's post about ISH defending me. The context of Yamato defending me was clear - he disagreed with the logic SB was using and said as much. However, the way Vivax framed his suspicion was that Yamato should have no reason to trust me, therefor shouldn't be defending me. Except - Yamato never said anything ABOUT trusting me. He didn't like Hapa's reasoning for attacking me and said as much. It was a blatant misrepresentation of the situation.
Further, DP keeps referring to Palmar calling them "confirmed town"...I remember twice, maybe three times without consulting his filter.
Further, DP's point against me was ridiculous. I've been playing a very serious game so far, I've hardly derped, raged or otherwise trolled the thread...but he's like "HHMMM THAT'S A SUSPICIOUS AMOUNT OF NOT SERIOUS COMING FROM SOMEONE CLAIMING THEY'RE PLAYING SERIOUS AS AN EXCUSE ISN'T THAT ODD" Like really? That doesn't even make sense - it's not alignment indicative at all and I suspect he was just trying to fuel the VE=Scum sentiment.
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That's also how I feel
VE tryhard typing so many paragraphs
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
You just got suckered by his instantaneous "Yeah you town" when you cased him Yamato, get outta here. He's been grasping at this VE read all game. He immediately wants to back out of talking with me as soon as I fucking OWN his argument, and now he's bullshitting townreads instead of trying to find scum. Hapa is scum.
You wanted to talk about DP. Talk. I've talked much. Respond.
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Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 13 2013 14:33 FiveTouch wrote:
Also is that the only question you have? I find it hard to believe that the entire body of your thoughts hinge on the answer to that question.
I believe you answered your other question, but this one is relevant. I have not been satisfied with the present cases presented, and feel that a new line of questioning is needed to find scum. Really not that hard to understand tbh... As for number of questions, I only start with one. Shoot off like ten and you're 1) not going to get them all answered, and 2) going to likely derail the thread as it goes in ten different directions.
The disappointing aspect of the game is that we have a bunch of people waiting for better scumhunters to "carry" them. And yet, their lack of participation makes it that much harder to find scum (like half the people in the game, so they can't all be scum...).
The latest example:
On April 13 2013 14:10 raynmaster wrote:
Not enough nukes.
see ya in like 10 more hours.
Like WTF?
My favorite way to find scum is by process of elimination, so I'm going to start by trying to sort through this mess of people. And if you were wondering about Wave, my question to Hapa was working towards this goal.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
So are you going to wait on an answer to "Like WTF?" before commenting on people that others find suspicious? I get trying to do your own thing and that's commendable and everything, but A) what if I don't trust your method of reaching townreads and B) how am I to ascertain your alignment in the interim?
Like, for example, Hapa has answered your question. You haven't said whether his answer was acceptable, or if you agree or disagree, or anything. Your whole big post there said absolutely nothing. Stop saying nothing and start saying something Mocsta.
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On April 13 2013 15:30 FiveTouch wrote:
You just got suckered by his instantaneous "Yeah you town" when you cased him Yamato, get outta here. He's been grasping at this VE read all game. He immediately wants to back out of talking with me as soon as I fucking OWN his argument, and now he's bullshitting townreads instead of trying to find scum. Hapa is scum.
You wanted to talk about DP. Talk. I've talked much. Respond.
I agree, Hapa looks hilariously stupid right now for his bullshit case, but the way he's responded since the case is not how mafia Hapa responds, VE. You're a bit tunneled there, he's actually just trying to cement his read. I don't think he's trying to buddy me further by calling me town as my ridiculous aggression is probably how he views me as town. Besides, if he's mafia, I will know he's mafia at some point. Mafia Hapa gets demotivated and inactive at some point, unlike town Hapa.
I agree on DP. I think he's sitting on the sidelines trying to fuel the argument that was going on without taking a stance. Notice the lack of a vote, notice the lack of any real attempt to justify his "suspicion" on you beyond "not being serious". Like you said, they're are also playing up the "fake nuke" deal like it makes them confirmed town, which is highly suspect and not at all true.
I also think the Vivax hydra is town, for what it's worth. The way Vivax argues for me being possible scum seems likle how town Vivax usually argues; i.e. he looks at some sort of plausible explanation of scum motivation and ignores any evidence to the contrary.
Your hydra, I think is town. You seem really town, while Marv seems like he's acting much like he was in the last hydra game, playing more as an observer than an active participant. The only thing I worry is that you are perfectly capable of seeming interested in the game, especially early. I don't think this means much, however, as in your last two scum games you have been especially demotivated and lurky early, so I feel like this is town VE as opposed to scum VE at the moment.
That's about all I have on this game at this time.
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Dude, I just woke up to see something like a case on my partner, decided to wait commenting on it until I had read the thread, and saw that there are very little opinions on people not called Hapa. You tunneling bro? The entire thread is revolving around Hapa and what he said. How often is it that the person everyone tunnels on from the start is scum? Like atleast 2/3 of all posts have been about Hapa or what he said on VE. I think you are much more likely to find scum in the ones who don't take a stance on this whole drama. Look at VIVAX420 flip-flopping his stance on the issue, calling both Yamato and Hapa scummy at one point and nullish at others.
On April 13 2013 09:28 VIVAX420 wrote:
Come on, some people didn't even post and I'm not guaranteeing for anyone but early tunnels for stupid reasons are something we don't need.
Hapa attacks VE cause he thinks he said anti-town stuff, yamato attacks Hapa cause he says it's not anti-town from VE.
→ not-so-good reasons from both sides. But Hapa's argument could fit into a policy against anti-town play, yamato's possible motives for defending VE and keeping up the comfy tunnel..I find scummy.
All I saw of relevance was Yamato defending FT and then denying that he's defending him, coupled with an early tunnel and excessive aggression. On April 13 2013 10:11 VIVAX420 wrote:
[snip]
Your and yamato's arguments: Not good.
Your arguments against VE: Bad, not scummy.
Yamato's actions: Possibly scum motivated. But I'll wait for more and especially for the non-posters to post. On April 13 2013 11:04 VIVAX420 wrote:
[snip]
Either way, I think yamato's push might or might not have been genuine, but same goes for Hapa. What I dislike about Hapa is that he went over to attacking my play for reasons I dislike, but I might be biased here.
[snip] Look at how noncommital he is when he says these things. Especially the bolded parts. Scum don't like to take definite stances on these kind things. They like to wait around in the middle of the argument until they see bandwagon forming.
Just-before-post-edit: I realise some of this doesn't stand anymore since atleast some of have quit the tunneling, but otherwise it's perfectly valid.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
I don't like the "That's just..not what he does" argument. What DOES he do? When his fabricated bullshit case get's fucking trounced, how DOES mafia Hapa respond?
But whatever, you're right I'm tunneled in after specifically trying to look at other people. Let's instead lynch Palmar/DP...because they're scum, but more importantly, I thoroughly enjoy making them angry.
##Unvote
##Vote: JohnMatrix
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VE, what happened to the whole "taking time thing?"
I made a bad case against you. Shit happens. So either you can dwell on it and spend the entire day tunneling the most active presence in the thread or you can take a deep breath and understand that I had a little derp moment.
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Vatican City State88 Posts
My prior was post presented after VE presents rather valid points on both shotgun and DP/Palmar...
For DP/Palmar, definitely subpar play. Sadly, they are one of several people who have done next to nothing...
As for Hapa: I really didn't understand his townread on Wave (hence why I asked). His explanation wasn't very strong either. I know that Hapa's a strong town player, and find it hard to believe the guy would do something like this so haphazardly. The recent mislynch of Ace in my mind though reminds me that good players do dumb things. So this is a poor reason to suspect Hapa as scum. But there's more to it than that.:
But there's Scum Motivation too for this action. As scum, Hapa has Wave "buddied" to sway the vote. Wave already extended out to Hapa saying he was going to buddy him, so why not take advantage of this as scum? I know he's aware of what motivates buddying, as I recall him using buddying as a casepoint before in a past game. I'm looking forward to Hapa's defense.
##FoS: Shotgun
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Just seems like a softening of the usual Vivax insanity, really. I much prefer Vivax doubting his crazy reads than latching onto them like a fucking lamprey.
I can understand how you think they're alignment indicative, though, jampi, but what you miss is that his actual arguments are arguments that town Vivax often makes; someone is scum because they did something ONE TIME that he perceives as possibly scummy, or that fits into a weak scum heuristic he holds dear, and then he runs with it.
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On April 13 2013 15:54 MockArmor wrote:
My prior was post presented after VE presents rather valid points on both shotgun and DP/Palmar...
For DP/Palmar, definitely subpar play. Sadly, they are one of several people who have done next to nothing...
As for Hapa: I really didn't understand his townread on Wave (hence why I asked). His explanation wasn't very strong either. I know that Hapa's a strong town player, and find it hard to believe the guy would do something like this so haphazardly. The recent mislynch of Ace in my mind though reminds me that good players do dumb things. So this is a poor reason to suspect Hapa as scum. But there's more to it than that.:
But there's Scum Motivation too for this action. As scum, Hapa has Wave "buddied" to sway the vote. Wave already extended out to Hapa saying he was going to buddy him, so why not take advantage of this as scum? I know he's aware of what motivates buddying, as I recall him using buddying as a casepoint before in a past game. I'm looking forward to Hapa's defense.
##FoS: Shotgun
Let's ignore Hapa because I think he's actually town and then look at other people.
DP/Palmar have posted more than some, why lump them in with people that haven't posted much? I want your read on them.
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Haven't read much any of Vivax's games, care to give me some examples where who does this?
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EBWOP: who is supposed to be he
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On April 13 2013 15:52 FiveTouch wrote:
I don't like the "That's just..not what he does" argument. What DOES he do? When his fabricated bullshit case get's fucking trounced, how DOES mafia Hapa respond?
But whatever, you're right I'm tunneled in after specifically trying to look at other people. Let's instead lynch Palmar/DP...because they're scum, but more importantly, I thoroughly enjoy making them angry.
##Unvote
##Vote: JohnMatrix
Mafia Hapa makes bullshit cases and is ignorant of the general town discussion while town Hapa tries to be a town leader.
That's about all you need to know about him, and if you think about it, him even TRYING to talk his way out of his read and justify it makes me think he's town, because I expect scum Hapa to just go AFK and stop posting.
But yeah, let's kill Palmar/DP, because they're more obvious scum.
##Vote JohnMatrix
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On April 13 2013 15:56 ShotgunBiceps wrote:
Haven't read much any of Vivax's games, care to give me some examples where who does this?
You can read his absurdly long filters in both Personality 2 and Mafia LIX to see town Vivax in full derp mode.
Both those games are insanely long and spammy, so you may want to reserve some significant time to do so.
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On April 13 2013 15:54 MockArmor wrote:
My prior was post presented after VE presents rather valid points on both shotgun and DP/Palmar...
For DP/Palmar, definitely subpar play. Sadly, they are one of several people who have done next to nothing...
1)As for Hapa: I really didn't understand his townread on Wave (hence why I asked). His explanation wasn't very strong either. I know that Hapa's a strong town player, and find it hard to believe the guy would do something like this so haphazardly. The recent mislynch of Ace in my mind though reminds me that good players do dumb things. 2)So this is a poor reason to suspect Hapa as scum. But there's more to it than that.:
But there's Scum Motivation too for this action. [b]3[/bAs scum, Hapa has Wave "buddied" to sway the vote. Wave already extended out to Hapa saying he was going to buddy him, so why not take advantage of this as scum? I know he's aware of what motivates buddying, as I recall him using buddying as a casepoint before in a past game. I'm looking forward to Hapa's defense.
[b]4[/b##FoS: Shotgun
That's terrrrrrible. Like of all the reasons you could have came up with from the last 10 pages of spam, that's what you come up with?
The logic in this post:
1) I have a town-read you don't understand
2) ...BUT that's a "poor reason" to ssuepct me
3) HOWEVER there's the POSSIBILITY that I buddied Wave.
4) Therefore... I'm suspicious?
What on earth? I mean what's there even to defend. You called one of your own reasons for finding me suspicious bad, then you say I "buddied" someone. That's a statement, and not analysis.
Who's posting here? Is this GK?
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Vatican City State88 Posts
On April 13 2013 15:52 FiveTouch wrote:
I don't like the "That's just..not what he does" argument. What DOES he do? When his fabricated bullshit case get's fucking trounced, how DOES mafia Hapa respond?
But whatever, you're right I'm tunneled in after specifically trying to look at other people. Let's instead lynch Palmar/DP...because they're scum, but more importantly, I thoroughly enjoy making them angry.
##Unvote
##Vote: JohnMatrix
I mean I get they haven't been useful, but what specific scum-motivated actions have they done? I don't see that in your case. Only scummy actions they could be doing as either alignment.
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On April 13 2013 16:02 MockArmor wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2013 15:52 FiveTouch wrote:
I don't like the "That's just..not what he does" argument. What DOES he do? When his fabricated bullshit case get's fucking trounced, how DOES mafia Hapa respond?
But whatever, you're right I'm tunneled in after specifically trying to look at other people. Let's instead lynch Palmar/DP...because they're scum, but more importantly, I thoroughly enjoy making them angry.
##Unvote
##Vote: JohnMatrix I mean I get they haven't been useful, but what specific scum-motivated actions have they done? I don't see that in your case. Only scummy actions they could be doing as either alignment.
That's a contradiction, sir.
First and foremost, town DP is actually fucking active and has balls.
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Marshall Islands1474 Posts
How about the weak +1 to Yam Suspicion and never following up on it? That doesn't strike you as "scum motivated" in spite of having weak +1 suspicion of me too? Lots of weak +1 posts is no longer a valid scum tell around here?
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EPT
