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On April 07 2013 09:48 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 09:42 marvellosity wrote:
Saying there is "no way" sciberbia should be up for the lynch and "scum could be hiding in this silliness" does not equate to him being a decent lynch, which you just implied.
"silliness" != 3rd best lynch. Marv what exactly have you said to make sciberbia scum aside from associations with someone you just unvoted? Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 20:30 marvellosity wrote:
It's a combination of sciberbia not mentioning WoS for a very long time, and then seemingly giving WoS an out as you mention.
Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 19:48 marvellosity wrote:
I actually have some connection feelings between WoS and sciberbia too, but I'll wait until if/when WoS flips red to talk about that Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 20:02 marvellosity wrote:
I might as well say it given I alluded to it; I think a WoS red-flip heavily implicates sciberbia as red. Which is an underneath reason why I want to lynch WoS today. Seems like you are trying to make an association case before the flip and the association is now with someone you are unwilling to lynch. So when you say to look in your filter for the reason behind your sciberbia vote with ZERO justification and all I find is the above quotes. I don't know What the fuck you are talking about.
Here:
On April 06 2013 19:44 marvellosity wrote:
Alright. You don't realise this because I've kept my cards close to my chest so far this game, but I agree completely with everything you've said about the people I'm suspicious of. I agree about the big post on oats/iamp. He spent several paragraphs defending iamp when he only had one serious detractor at the time (DP) and I didn't find the push on Oats very reasonable either (maybe you can guess this from my reaction). Also agreed with the validation thing - talking about setup is fine, except he kinda didn't even really give an opinion, he was just fawning at you.
It's essentially just agreeing with Palmar, because I... agreed with Palmar. No need to rehash everything.
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On April 07 2013 09:53 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 09:50 Ace wrote:
If he is constantly doing things that Scum do, and you alerted him to it, and he continues to do it and we believe he is a rational person playing to his win condition as Town - then he would stop doing things to get mislynched as Town.
Hence, he would be scum. Why are you ignoring his play even though you said you told him pregame what to fix? He doesn't get mislynched as town because usually he has me to protect him in game 
I would say, I never told him to fix anything.
He just told me that he found people who attacked him townie, and I told him that was stupid because people find it easy to attack him because of his playstyle.
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On April 07 2013 09:58 Palmar wrote:
whatever, everyone thinks I'm town. you guys can sort the rest out. fuck this game it's too hard.
don't do this, pretty please <3
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On April 07 2013 15:31 sciberbia wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 15:21 Oatsmaster wrote:On April 07 2013 15:10 sciberbia wrote:
marv has seen me play a lot, and I don't think my play this game has been that different from other games where I've been town. Marv should know that I like posting fluffy setup stuff as town, and overall I think he should be able to read me as town, or at the very least not have a scumread. But I suppose it's possible we both just overestimate each other and that he is impatient and doesn't think like me.
Even before the wagon on me, I was leaning scum on marv based on some things earlier in the game. I think there's a decent chance he's scum.What?
Is this like the 'You should BE ABLE TO SEE THAT I AM TOWN', scumtell thing? Cause thats is absolute bullshit and inaccurate. Do you have ANY REASONS why marv is scum? or are you just bullshitting? The one above ISNT. Yes I just explained one significant reason I have for thinking marv is scum. He has a lot of scum motivation for trying to get me lynched on Palmar's wagon. I would expect a town marv to have more reservations about lynching me for fear of losing a town scib. He had almost no reasons for voting me, and the one original reason he provided was very bad imo. I just explained this.
Why are you even pulling a comment from a past QT? I said explicitly in this game how I view your abilities. The fact is that for whatever reason you disagreed with my reasoning on you which was essentially Palmar's reasoning. I just didn't fluff mine out because Palmar had done so already.
Just to repeat, you spent half a very long analysis post defending someone who was under attack from one person, and attacked someone else who I thought and still think is clearly a bad lynch. In doing so, you completely ignored WoS who had been under some suspicion, and who may yet still be mafia. I didn't / do not understand why you devoted so much of that post to talking about someone quite townie in iamp rather than talking about someone much more controversial in WoS, who you left until much later. This not-talking-about WoS, in conjunction with the long (in my opinion kinda weird) post on iamp and Oats, gave me more the feeling of that mini you rolled mafia, where the primary determinant of seeing you as mafia is that although your posts looked ok, you seemed pretty disconnected with the thread, whereas as town you're much more in the thick of things. At any rate, even though it took ~48 hours, you now ARE more in the thick of things (even if it is with suspicion of me) and so I'm backing down from thinking you're a good lynch right now.
In any case, if a scum-marv wanted to get you lynched, dear, I'd make sure I did so in a pretty airtight fashion. Literally every single vote I ever cast as mafia is backed up by "rock solid" reasoning, to prevent stuff like *this* happening to me. What's happening right here happens to me when I'm town; e.g. Personality I was attacked for throwing votes around Day 1, e.g. "##vote: Stutters. let's see how this goes" Or in Fruity mafia a mafia Toad spent his entire time alive (until i had him killed) trying to discredit me for a vote I put on him which had very little reasoning other than "yeah i agree with sand". Anyone with any passing familiarity with my scumplay should know I never look bad for my votes. It's just basic stuff.
I was feeling pretty good about this game yesterday afternoon because Palmar had the same two reads I had with basically the same reasoning. Except I fleshed out why I found WoS scummier and Palmar ended up on my wagon, and Palmar fleshed out why he found sciberbia scummier and I ended up on his wagon, but I'm mafia? If nothing else this is monumentally inconsistent and confusing.
Going back to the Oats thing, no I don't find DP suspicious for attacking Oats because like I mentioned before I hold you in a higher regard than him, and I hold you in a significantly higher regard than a town-Ace, who couldn't make a good read if he was in a fucking library. Since I started playing here a year ago, I've only ever seen town-Ace champion town lynches or get mislynched himself. He's awful as town.
For some reason people don't seem to care that Ace is highly inconsistent with himself starting from about last night. He tells us that there is no good reason for unvoting WaveofShadow, and then concedes that his posts felt genuine - so... this is a good reason to unvote WaveofShadow. He also says "this" - I don't know what "this" is - was the reason that Ace "unvoted" him. Ace never had his vote on him. A small mistake perhaps, but in The Game Ace almost led a blatantly town VE to the gallows for "lying". I said yesterday at some point that I couldn't really read Ace as mafia because he didn't seem to be pushing any agenda; I can't say that now.
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sci looks better, DP looks stupid, Ace looks bad.
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I'm contemplating whether I can actually put something together against Ace, because his scum and town metas are both "push townies with bad reasoning". Not sure yet.
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Wow, you take a tiny bit of my post and ignore the rest? LOL YOU ARE SO AWESOME.
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On April 07 2013 21:03 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:00 marvellosity wrote:
Wow, you take a tiny bit of my post and ignore the rest? LOL YOU ARE SO AWESOME. That was the major point defending yourself. The rest was justification of your questionable actions. Essentially the argument against the scummiest things against you (no reasons for votes, no original case, rephrasing palmar etc) is that you wouldn't do that as scum. I am not going to engage with you buddy. I am trying not to get into Flame wars this game.
It wasn't the major point at all. I was explaining myself to sciberbia so he could understand my thought process. the bit about my past games was just some context. Learn to read.
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Think in your head why I've responded to sciberbia on this and not you. Because you're totally irrational and incapable of reading, whereas sciberbia is not.
The very fact that you broke my post down to the response you gave basically shows you're incapable of critical thought.
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The very essence of whatever case there is supposedly on me is "I didn't write enough to explain my sciberbia read" which is just so silly I can't even communicate properly how silly it is.
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I see. You're going to confirmation bias this read to the end of time. Glad to hear it mate.
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How is that discrediting? It's blatantly true.
On April 07 2013 21:16 DarthPunk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 21:14 marvellosity wrote:
Think in your head why I've responded to sciberbia on this and not you. Because you're totally irrational and incapable of reading, whereas sciberbia is not.
The very fact that you broke my post down to the response you gave basically shows you're incapable of critical thought. No I just know that you can rationalise anything and make it seem reasonable. Disagreeing with you does not make me an idiot despite you trying to create that myth. I am quite content in my ability to think critically thanks.
What this says is that there's no way you won't see me as scum, because any bad explanation i give is scummy, but any good explanation I give isn't townie, because I'm capable of giving it as scum. Ergo, even if I explain my thought process in an open way, it's impossible for you to read town from it because I'm capable of doing so as scum, apparently.
You also belittle my self-meta analysis, fine, self-meta analysis is in itself kinda useless. But you've played many games with me and you should know that what I talked about IS true. Or you can go and check for yourself what I'm referencing, that it's true. You can go look at the GSL game you like to reference and see if I made any "shit" votes there.
Actually you're reasonably intimate with how I play, we've played, what, a good 8 games together? Why would you disregard my past games?
All this is precisely the definition of confirmation bias.
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Don't disappear on me now, I want to see how genuine all this is.
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My reads aren't questionable and I've actively given reasons, even if they are only sheeping Palmar's reasons. This should be pretty clear from my filter, regarding sciberbia. You are, for some reason, taking the self-analysis part as my defence, when, as already stated, it was context.
Take this game out of a vacuum for a moment, and pretend we're talking outside the game about my play. To repeat, forget about this game for a moment. I could state that;
1) I never make 'badly' explained votes as mafia
2) I regularly make such votes as town, and I can provide evidence for this
Conclusion: making such votes is actually a 100% towntell for me.
Ok, now we can bring it back to this game, because I understand that a mafia-marv can make this defence. But from *my* perspective, look at what *I* am seeing from you.
I'm seeing DarthPunk, a player who has played many games with me, confidently calling me mafia over something that I know for me is usually a towntell. Does it necessarily mean I'm town this game? Of course not! No, I could be scum doing it this game. But from my perspective it should be giving you a fucking lot of pause calling me mafia and voting me as strongly as you are now. It's something I can't understand when you should know me better than this.
This is entirely on top of the fact, as explained in my long post, my feelings for sciberbia weren't without reasoning, they were just very similar to Palmar's. Would you really have rathered I'd written a couple of paragraphs paraphrasing him every time I wanted to vote for someone? Why? Why are you so bothered that I agreed with Palmar's reasoning and came with him on to sciberbia, but it doesn't bother you in the slightest when Palmar effectively does the same with WaveofShadow? You're calling my reads/reasoning questionable, but they entirely aligned with Palmar's, and I said as much, yet you're voting for me and you don't give a shit about him? I don't get at all why you wanted me to over-explain my sciberbia vote when the reasoning was already in the thread.
NONE of this do I understand.
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That's not what he said at all.
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On April 07 2013 22:14 DarthPunk wrote:
Marv am I more likely scum or town?
Why don't you just answer my last post properly instead, we're in civil mode now.
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On April 07 2013 22:05 Oatsmaster wrote:then what did he say? Hmm? I thought he backed off out of everything and now is gonna be like Red Team. Which is slightly disappointing 
Yes, he backed off everything, but he didn't say you were his only scum suspect either. He said "maybe you" in an offhand manner, which is completely different.
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Besides, Oats, i think Palmar will come in to the thread and work with it today. That's my hunch anyways.
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EPT
