|
On April 07 2013 05:50 jampidampi wrote: If you are lynching me for doing nothing, why aren't you lynching JarJar? If you are lynching me for bad cases, why aren't you lynching Rainbows? I'm not lynching you for doing nothing, so I'll answer the second one: Rainbows' cases and aggressiveness have been directed towards people that have acted scummily - or at least, were not specifically townie IMHO. Your case was directed at Rainbows, who I had identified (imo, reasons in thread) as town. The fact that you made a bad case on my townread was the problem. If you had made a bad case on somebody scummy - I think the reaction would have been different. Rainbows, at that point in time, was not thought to be as townie as I thought he was by the thread as a whole - he would be a fairly safe target to make a case on (had he not reacted so vehemently, and I had not defended him so strongly, IMO).
Your case on rain is and was the problem, and if you're dropping that, I'm less sure. You could be dropping it because it's the problem, and you could also be dropping it because you have identified it as being bad. I can't tell which, so I am hoping one of my townreads has new insights.
(If that makes any sense. lol - -; )
|
Is anyone here to talk to about this? At the moment I think it's safe to assume that the two lynch candidates are JarJarDrinks and jampidampi. Specifically, I kind of want to know what Rainbows thinks about a JarJarDrinks vote, particularly as compared to jampi. Right now his vote is on Ravens; who I sort of started ignoring for the moment, I'll remedy that over the night period or during the next day phase or whatever.
nobodywonder, your vote is on Kirby. Why? Who would you prefer out of the two listed above? Warent, Ravens - your votes on Rainbows are stupid and that's sort of all I have to say about them -_- Sorry lol
JarJar, get posting. Your content can't even be called that, you are a lynch candidate entirely because you have posted so little. I'm going to read into his profile and see if he acts similarly in other games - although like I think I mentioned awhile ago, I have no idea how the heck to use meta so it's more just an exercise to stay interested while I wait for somebody to respond to me.
We have two hours before the lynch and only a couple people are actually around! Lets please fix this? (hi Smancer, will read your posts once I toss this out.)
|
Hmmm. I hadn't really noticed that. (hehe silly ebwop.) - That, being how he mentioned two people - and rainbows specifically, after unvoting him.
On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote: So upon rereading, I can see how Rainbows might be a townie. So since there are more suspicious people than him: ##Unvote
On April 07 2013 05:50 jampidampi wrote: If you are lynching me for bad cases, why aren't you lynching Rainbows?
|
I've talked myself into not liking a JarJar lynch today. I don't really recall anybody defending his behavior, he's a lurker that happens to be vote-contesting jampi. He hasn't shown up, and that's really sort of ridiculous, but I have trouble thinking he's scum with nobody defending him and not saying anything, and having his vote on somebody that makes no sense. At the moment, I'm happy to label him as "sorta bad " and leave it at that for today.
The fact that there is opposition to the jampi lynch - although I hate confrontation; + Show Spoiler +so why the hell am I playing a mafia game ; is a good thing, I think. If he just picked up the votes and everyone walked out, despite his defense - it'd be slightly offputting and too easy. At this point, I'm pretty sure that I will not be moving my vote off of Jampi. He defended himself in a way that specifically addressed my concerns, but doing so does not mean that he is suddenly townie, it means that he was adept enough to address my concerns since I made what was calling him scum clear. (at least I think I did!) This would be a good move for both scum or town. Before he changed this behavior, I was content in thinking him scum, so I will continue with that read.
Kirby, I don't think the case was reasonable, because I have a townread on Rainbows.
|
The goal is to kill scum, not bad town. Why are you asking a question with only one answer? Obviously he's not my ideal townie.
|
-_- Kirby, I appreciate the compliments, but your post is ridiculous. You call rainbows scum, and then you say at the end that he should return. What :0 I would've hoped that Rainbows would've returned by now, and honestly, his ragequitting is incredibly frustrating. If you think it's a ploy, more power to you, but it would be a fucking stupid ploy, imho. If you're expecting that the scumteam consists of: Me, trying to motivate the thread, think rationally, critically, and attempt to listen to others, Rainbows, who has claimed Vigilante and rage-quit, and JarJar, who is lurking and everyone admits is lurking,
First off, I would be perfectly happy to omgus you for that, but this isn't the time for shenanigans - I'd rather vote Jampi atm. Second off, this is the first time you've mentioned me in a negative light - honestly, it's the first reason anybody has mentioned me in a negative light, I think xD maybe i'm forgetting someone I don't really have much to say with regards to making association cases with unflipped players - I don't think it's wise, though. If Rainbows is eventually lynched and found to be scum, then I admit my culpability and foolishness. If JarJar is lynched and found to be scum - Great! It was a shot in the dark, a lucky twist based on the fact that _we can not really read him._ We are reading Jampi.
How can you be the most confident on a lurker? I don't necessarily disagree with the possibility of JarJar being scum, but I think that Jampi is a much surer thing. On association, + Show Spoiler +If Jampi flips scum, you look much worse, and JarJar looks a bit better. Better still, if you also later flip scum. I don't want to accuse you until we see that, though - Association with unflipped players and all.
If you are town, and legitimately think I am scum - Go ahead and ask me questions, test my reactions, get my opinions - I've made every effort to be open, to help the thread get going and to help guide town towards the players that I think are scummy. I have some scumreads and townreads and have made them very clear, but if you or any other players would like additional clarity, I would be happy to grant it.
I think you're accusing me because I'm not movable from the Jampi lynch at this point, have been very vocal regarding Rain's innocence, and have stated that I do not intend to vote JarJar today.
|
With regards to Jampi - he was extremely aggressive towards Rainbows from the point he posted his case until his post at 2:36, and then at 3:05 (his following post) where he said I think I need an hour or so cool down. My mind is spinning in circles and I can't have clear thoughs. I might be tunneling Rainbows hardcore and maybe thats why everything he does and says adds up as scummy in my mind. If you have something you want me to address, leave it in the threas. Will be back in an hour or maybe a little less.
At this point, he had not posted for a significant amount of time - and returns to say that he needs to calm down. After one hour, he returns to reread the thread. After 45 minutes, he removes his vote from Rainbows and votes Jarjar, a lurker.
So - what happened in that 4 hour period before he returned to say that he needed to calm down, since he apparently had been raging for 4+ hours? Specifically, in the 30 minutes from 2:36 to 3:05, he picked up votes from myself, Fish, and Moloch. Sounds like a good reason to suddenly about-face!
Jampi feels like a surer thing than Jarjar. jarjar STILL hasn't posted! =/
|
In the first game I played, everybody switched entirely onto a largely-null-read because he claimed VT flavor - rather predictably, he was VT and we all mislynched. The vote leader until that point was a mafia member, iirc. (It was newbie XXX - if i'm misremembering, oops lol.)
I really don't think a panic switch is going to reap results :l (Particularly onto anybody other than Jampi or Jarjar.) And out of those two, I prefer Jampi.
@Fish - Yes, that definitely sounds legitimate to me. If he needed to "calm down", he would have calmed down well before the votes for him materialized. The timing makes no sense, it feels (looking back) like he was stalling for time, and looking at how to extract himself from the situation.
|
oh god damnit -_- Blehhhhhh not sure what to say
|
sigh. Okay. so with this lynch, the anti-jampi lynchers look moderately better, kirby looks better, I look bad and the other jampi lynchers look a bit worse.. i'm going to afk for a little bit; annoyed. gg jampi i guess. i'll be back at some point today probably.
|
I looked over the thread a bit but I am having a hard time concentrating. My motivation dropped significantly -_-. The one thing I am absolutely certain of is that Moloch still looks town to me. Jampi not being scum was shocking to me. I did my absolute best to drive the lynch away from Rainbows for a multitude of reasons, but with a blue mislynch they look fucking stupid lol. I don't really intend to push a Rain lynch tomorrow but I won't defend him as hard since apparently I just have no idea how to do anything except sound logical, even if my logic apparently sucks.
Warent, you are quite correct - my primary thought was that Rain was town, and pretty much everything was somehow shaped around that. Honestly, since he hasn't been here - there isn't exactly information that shows me he ISN'T still town. Jampi flipped, and had unvoted Rain. + Show Spoiler +On April 07 2013 04:49 jampidampi wrote:So upon rereading, I can see how Rainbows might be a townie. So since there are more suspicious people than him: ##UnvoteThese suspicious people are JarJarDrinks and Saraf. We'll start with JarJar. All JarJar has done this game is call jrkirby scum. His read seems to be an overreaction to jrkirbys early vote on Rainbows. JarJar seems to think that jrkirby in his reasonin post kept his vote on Rainbows even if he thinks Rainbows is bad town. But to me jrkirbys vote reads more as a pressure vote: if Rainbows doesn't stop being stupid jrkirby will lynch him. Then he reads Rainbows as town because jrkirby is scum, but in the same post implies that Rainbows might be scum since in JarJars last game Rainbows totally fooled him as scum. Saraf on the other hand started the game with some policy discussion. Not alignment indicative per se, but he has done very little of something else. He called Rainbows suspicious for missiterpreting his posts, but that can as easily be seen as being defensive. Saraf called jrkirby suspicious for stating that he had a hunch on someone being scum, but didn't mention who it was. This lines up with votes piling up on jrkirby, making it seem Saraf wanted to hop on the bandwagon. Then when he finally comes back, he fails to to call me, Rainbows and Ravens scum or town, just stating that we are not good lynches. He does have a good point on JarJar and is at least here giving his opinion on something. Out of the suspcious people here, I find JarJar the most suspicious. You can this a vote for survival or scum trying to save himself with an easy bandwagon, but I think he is the scummiest. ##Vote: JarJarDrinks
Jampi's flip doesn't necessarily make Rain any more or less guilty seeming - Rain's non-presence might, but nothing has really changed regarding Rain. The lynch felt, to me, like it was more about Jampi - specifically, how his read felt misplaced. I wasn't able to detach myself enough from thinking that I disliked his case which prevented me from voting anybody else(JarJar), even though his(Jampi's) last couple of posts were significantly better - I concluded (wrongly) that he had adeptly changed his style to be something that I would find less scummy, a stupid mistake on my part.
Jarjar still was just a lurker lynch IMHO. Exactly as before, he needs to get in here and post. I see that he mentioned sunday won't be good either - given that that will be night time, and the likelihood of him being shot by scum is effectively zero, that's acceptable to me as long as he is QUITE and I mean QUITE active on Monday. (Acceptable meaning - I will forgive him for his absence lol ^^ It isn't as simple as "doesn't show up, scum, shows up, town.")
However, Warent - "he acts to stupid to be scum" is an IMMENSE simplification of why I thought (and think, although less vehemently) that Rain was/is town. I would like to think that I have written a lot, and also given you and everybody else as much useful information as I possibly could; although the latter part of day 1 was based on my Rain read, this is true.
One thing I have to say - Although I feel like I bear a ridiculous amount of responsibility for the mislynch, defending Jampi is definitely something that scum could feel safe doing, due to the expected tenuousness of my (and the other Jampi voters') position after the mislynch occurred. I'll try to do looking into it myself, but as I'm not really confident in my abilities (for obvious reasons -_-;;;; ), it would be useful to analyze the stances of everybody as they related to Jampi during the lynch, whether individuals were attacking or defending him in a scummy manner.
and sorry jampi :c
|
On April 07 2013 08:59 TheRavensName wrote:Show nested quote +On April 07 2013 08:55 jrkirby wrote: Well only a couple minutes left, I think. Oh, well, we're gonna lynch town... But I would have to vote for you to save him. And I like you more then him. Sorry. Ravens, what did you mean by this? You are implying that you like Kirby more than Jampi - sure, w/e - but why would you have to vote for Kirby =l You'd be voting for Jarjar. Am I getting confused over nothing?
I think the way you acted pre-lynch was reasonably townie, it's just this post that confuses me.
|
@Kirby - For the most part, I agree. The problem is - if rainbows dies tonight, it's a little too lucky for us. (I was explaining how a mafia game worked to my younger brother, and we discussed the possible consequences and likelihood of Rainbows dying tonight. My thoughts) -
+ Show Spoiler +If Rainbows is real vig[my opinion], then he will likely not die tonight. He's the target of lots of reasonably justifiable suspicion, he afked catastrophically, I don't see why scum would kill him, they would just roleblock him and push/let him be pushed tomorrow.
If Rainbows lied about being vig and is actually town, what the fuck i have no idea we can't tell the difference between this and vig until he flips so i guess if he flips VT it confirms him for being completely out of control and clueless? But it doesn't really change whether or not he'll die.
If he's scum and there's no real vig, we actually can't tell the situation apart from the first one. He obviously won't die tonight, barring a Vivax-esqe play (shooting a scumbuddy and claiming vig), and he'll still be the target of suspicion.
If he's scum and a vig shoots him - Awesome! It clears up town's biggest headache, and although I will look and feel like a complete idiot, killing scum is what's important, not my pride lol. The obvious choice for a real vig is to shoot Rainbows and reveal this, and truthfully I hope it's what happens, even though I think we are in the first situation outlined. I would be very surprised if he did not "live while getting roleblocked."
Although I don't want him to get mislynched tomorrow, if he doesn't show up to defend himself/rejoin town discussion, i really can't be assed to defend him in absentia for multiple days -_- Basically all scenarios where rainbows dies are fair optimal for us, so scum will be certain to try to avoid them, imo.
|
Saraf, your case is saying the exact same things that have already been said about Rain. Comparatively, I like what Warent has to say a bit more. Rather than just pointing out "Yep, Rain's still scummy", he's looking more towards the push on jampi and how it relates to other people. (Me, sadly, but that's irrelevant at the moment.) I do find it curious that he mentions Smancer as the tipping point that makes it "okay" to vote Jampi - do you have a townread on Smancer, Warent?
Also - It bothers me that nobodywonder has acted effectively the same way that Jarjar has, but with far less attention given to him. It's been a day and a half lol. Jarjar needs to post more, this is well agreed upon - nobodywonder does too. Rainbows does too heh -_-
|
I liked him before the mislynch occurred, and although the fact that we mislynched made me suspicious of the other people on jampi's wagon, a quick skim through his filter leads me to still lean town on him (Fish, that is). He reacted very much like me, and agreed with my reasoning - + Show Spoiler +On April 07 2013 02:49 Fishgle wrote:holy shit. things are happening. First off - fuck you rainbows, for being such an arrogant emotional mess. Here's a tip: it's less about what you say, and more about how you depict it. You didn't make any friends because of your abrasive behavior. I understand you were forced to reveal so you wouldn't get lynched, but it was your own damn fault that everyone suspected you. second - fuck you rainbows, if you're actually abandoning the game. third - THERAVENSNAME, WARENT, JAMPIDAMPI why are your votes still on rainbows? Are you guys implying that rainbows' reveal was a fake? If it were fake, there's a huge chance someone would counter-reveal, making it a terrible move for scum. it just doesn't make any sense for him to be scum, no matter how badly he plays. 4th - i think obzy has done a good job explaining further reasons as to why it's unlikely that rainbows is scum. 5th - someone asked about a comment i made about a read on Moloch. disregard it. we have bigger fish to fry now. plus, it was an early-game hunch. Moloch's posts have gotten a lot more substantive and level-headed from since i got the read. 6th - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=18#345 - http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=405359¤tpage=12#231I really think this is the best lead we have so far, coupled with the fact that he's still pushing a lynch on rainbows, who just revealed as the vigilante. ##Vote:jampidampi
if I had to be suspicious of somebody on jampi, at the moment, it's smancer, not fish. his scum reads, I would've been quite happy with pre-lynch - now, I'm obviously a bit more skeptical - but I don't think that they make him scum, just reaching with the association to a jampi case. I'm more suspicious of Smancer than the other two, although they obviously all need to keep talking, along with everybody else ^^
Specifically regarding smancer; what's with the rainbows flip-flop? I'll admit, my own confidence was shaken - but really, does the jampi lynch change rainbows' situation? Rainbows wasn't even here for the majority of the jampi stuff. (Which is fucking bad, no doubt! But for Smancer to bring up rainbows after the fact? =l *shrug*
Also not liking Jarjar for lurking - why not nobodywonder as well? Jarjar just happened to be the one being voted for lurking at that time.
This isn't concrete, of course - but if I had to pick somebody on jampi's wagon that was actually scum, it would be Smancer, not Fish or Moloch. [Naturally, I am ignoring myself. ^^] Does anybody have any opinions on this?
|
Kirby, what do you mean by that? Your post doesn't really say anything. (I believe rainbows would be modkilled if he has not placed a vote by the end of day 2, but in newbie games, there have been occasions where people have not been modkilled for not placing a vote, iirc.)
if you're worried about getting killed, post in 40 minutes when the night action resolution period is occurring (assuming we have one) about your reads, don't just say "It depends" and wait :x
Do we have a one hour night action resolution period this game?
|
Interesting. Not what I was expecting, for sure. Saraf's filter is quite short, the primary thing I see is him attacking Rain. so I guess the question is, was he killed to incriminate rain, or because he was specifically going after rain, or could it be some other reason entirely lol.
I guess since it's the beginning of the day I'll say this now - -;,
I don't intend to vote for Rain today. I also don't really intend to defend him. If he doesn't return in a timely manner, then he should probably be lynched because he isn't giving us anything to work with [Unless we have somebody that is identifiably more scummy than Rain is.] If he comes back, then it will depend. We also have nobodywonder and Jarjar lurking - I would like to see more from both of them, today.
kirby, regarding your last post - it was almost guaranteed imho that Rain would survive the night unless we had another vigilante. Him not dying implies that: 1. we either do not have a vig, the vig was unluckily roleblocked, or an idiot doctor protected him despite the fact that Rain's death-by-night-kill-specifically would be rather convenient at this point in time. 2. He isn't fakeclaiming. Regardless of what he fakeclaimed, there could have potentially been a counter-claim - i specifically think vigilante would be a dangerous fakeclaim to make _because_ the real vig could just quietly off him, whetheras doctor would at least require a counterclaim to disprove in such a neat fashion. *shrug*
|
On April 08 2013 09:14 jrkirby wrote: Damn. Rainbows is still alive. Either he's actually vigilante or there is no vigilante.
i used a lot of words to say a little - yes, i think this is likely correct.
|
|
That would make me rage unbelievably hard lol.
Given that "All roleblocks will result in the target being notified." - should roleblocks claim?
|
|
|
|