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Palmar
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On April 21 2013 18:28 Vivax wrote: Well I don't care that you say no, I'll treat everyone who posted before me as confirmed town for a while. I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today. Discuss. | ||
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There are two ways of looking at your post. First option is that you're town and legitimately think I'm scum. The second is you're scum and know I'm town and thus want to discredit me. Since you didn't present any arguments to back up your conclusion, I am inclined to think you must be scum. So until you present a believable motivation for your accusations... ##vote Oatsmaster | ||
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Do you have no intention of explaining your accusation? | ||
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On April 21 2013 23:01 TheRavensName wrote: I thought it just genuinely showed disapointment. I've always had difficulty understand what to do at the start of day 1, and I see that there really is no good way to start day 1 in a purely productive way. So I suppose your right, I'm trying to downplay what happens because it doesn't seem productive, unless of course we need to know why Yamato has many weapons that arn' t guns..... And I think its more suspicious to ask in that way rather than, just ask.... seeing as how he didn't even vote baselessly or hasn't made an ssue out of it yet. If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something. Hi, I see you're new. Let's explain and hope you're town. 1. OMGUS is a stupid term and has very little relevance to determining someone's alignment. It describes what someone is doing (retaliating on someone who attacked him) without describing how he does it. The simple act of omgusing someone doesn't bear any indication to someone's alignment. The fact you feel the need to point out it is, without analysing further what it means and why it was done, suggests to me you're not thinking critically and trying to conform to what you perceive as correct play. Don't do that. 2. Voting is very irrelevant, unless someone is close to a lynch I doubt Oats gives a rat's ass about me throwing my vote his way. The question whether or not someone followed a suspicion with a vote or not answers very little about the game. 3. You seem confused as to what to do on day 1. I gave a short explanation not long ago on hapa/drh's podcast thingee. The goal of day 1 is to make people fear for their lives, which is precisely what I mean to do with Oats. 4. Again, you're misunderstanding how this game works. "If we went after everyone who accused someone day 1 just kinda in passing, we'd never get anything resembling a case or something." If we let people make baseless accusations or stupid passing comments, we're pushing mafia agenda. I don't mind lynching people for playing like mafia, in fact I'm a fan of lynching people for playing like mafia. | ||
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pro-tip: there is a correct answer to my accusations against you. So for the last time, do you not intend to give any explanation as to why you think I'm scum? | ||
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On April 21 2013 23:04 VisceraEyes wrote: I think Palmar would never make this read as scum. Discuss Almost correct. In theory I could, although unlikely, but if I was scum I would probably make a bigger deal of it, and not move on to more productive things like chasing oats. The fact you're essentially correct brings mixed feelings. I'm relieved not having to argue with you. I'm also worried you were just a tad too confident and quick to reach a fairly complicated conclusion. | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:36 kushm4sta wrote: self aware millers should always claim. that is a simple fact of the game. there is no downside to it. In a setup where their existence and numbers are known they should claim. In this setup they really shouldn't. Your responsibility as a self-aware miller in a set-up like this. Ideally we policy lynch miller claims on day one. But I want to think on it because there are a ton of stupid people around who might think it's a good idea to claim miller. You being a good example. Will explain more when I have a keyboard. | ||
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On April 22 2013 05:33 getmoript wrote: Ok. I'll tell you how it is given BH is being an enormous megalomaniac. geript and I had a QT made for ourselves, which we have been using quite happily. BH decided that we should use the QT that he made, because he's a power-mad weirdo. I said we're fine with the QT that geript and I made thank you, and BH is now swinging his dick around, saying we're forced to use a QT that he made, despite the rules saying nothing about this, and despite the rules only having this restriction, which we followed: There were no such rules for out-of-game communication other than that that BlazingHand just edited in to the rules so that he'd be justified being a douchebag. Anyway, glhf everyone!! ~marv tbh this should result in a modkill. It's super unfair to the mafia that he's allowed to reveal information about the nature of the hydra and how it interacts with the host that results in everyone just assuming they're town. It's also super unfair to town if they're somehow mafia despite all this. | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:06 Hopeless1der wrote: Palmar, are you ever going to elaborate on the bolded? geript already explained it to you. As a rule of thumb, it's more likely town players storm into the thread asap, it's certainly not very valuable, but it does have some value. | ||
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On April 22 2013 06:23 Ace wrote: Palmar what do you think our main plans of action should be right now? Besides what seems like posturing and prodding by some people, I think waiting on Bill Murray to get back is our best option. Agree/Disagree/Don't Care? I don't think we need to suspend other activity to get the Bill Murray situation sorted out, because there are certain parameters it's solution is going to take that greatly affect the outcome. I think it's beneficial to ignore Bill Murray himself until he clarifies what he meant, and I also think it's very beneficial to move forward with other discussions as we wait. | ||
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The most alarming thing is not actually the random town-read on me, but his explanation of sylencia's alignment: Sylencia -- As far as I know he is a noob, so I'm guessing more likely town then When this read was made Sylencia had posted the following: On April 21 2013 17:11 Sylencia wrote: I would kill to be something other than a VT, but hey. On April 21 2013 18:04 Sylencia wrote: Seems like a bad idea to me. PS: Anyone who tries to analyse my first post in the future is dumb. This "read" is based on absolutely nothing, and whether or not Sylencia is a noob has almost nothing to do with his read. I don't understand this read and why on earth it's part of his "analysis". | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:40 raynpelikoneet wrote: Palmar what would you prefer as the "other discussions" you are referring to in your last post? if I was being vague I'll clarify "We should move forward with ANY other discussion". | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:44 getmoript wrote: The first game I played in here was with Sylencia IIRC and he/she was afk for most of it. So why does that make him most likely town? | ||
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On April 21 2013 23:59 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont see the point of giving vivax a townread and asking people to discuss because it doesnt really force scum to make a hard decision thing, its early day 1, so easy to change your mind. Its not controversial, its NOTHING. And Scum palmar tries to win. This is trying to sidetrack the thread, which is trying to win for scum. VE wanna tell me/the thread why palmar is town? I realize I never responded to this. This is a somewhat lackluster answer, but it's passable for now but just leaves Oats firmly as undecided for me. My accusation was based on the fact that he made an attempt to discredit me with no reasoning behind it. I am not entirely sure those reasons are original or were made up to respond to my questioning, but I'm going to leave the situation in the air for now. | ||
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On April 22 2013 08:50 Vivax wrote: Palmar, do you want to question geript's alignment? Do you want to question Sylencia's alignment? Cause I don't see why you are pointing this stuff out if that's not your intention. I have no information to question Sylencia's alignment I just posted the stuff about geript because I REALLY wanted to say it. That being said I don't think we should lynch him today based simply on the pseudo-confirm. | ||
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On April 22 2013 09:14 GiygaS wrote: It's the main antagonist in Earthbound. He even has a wikipedia article. no one gives a shit giggles. | ||
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nothing. Can you guide me along if I'm meant to make something out of it? | ||
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Bill Murray getmoript (QT thing) Vivax slot machine dude hopeless list of maybe town: Ace grush cheesecake kush Sylencia TheRavensName list of who knows: WaveofShadow Tube Drazak Clarity_nl Sharrant Yamato77 ShiaoPi list of bloodycobblers: BloodyCobbler list of somewhat scummy fuckers (based on absolutely nothing): DoctorHelvetica ObviousOne Oatsmaster giggles | ||
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That's how I feel about him right now. | ||
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##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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So everyone here is fully aware when the game started and reminded of it very close to the start of the game. So being afk or saying nothing is almost inexcusable. | ||
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I just don't want to | ||
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also never forget that VE is superscum. | ||
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why so shit then? | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:12 VisceraEyes wrote: Hey guys you wanna know why Palmar thinks I'm scum? Number of pages in my filter. Period. Just ask him, he'll tell you. I suppose that's somewhat accurate. Also because you haven't been yelling at scum, I like overzealous borderline-crazy town VE. He's a friend and I miss him. So yeah, until my "lazy ve is scum ve" is ever wrong I'm sticking with it. | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:24 VisceraEyes wrote: Fuck that you give me shit all the time about my playstyle and unrepentantly ignore me when I play like that you little shit. I ignore you cause I usually don't agree with you, that doesn't have much to do whether or not I can tell your alignment. And I almost never give you shit? | ||
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On April 23 2013 09:53 Oatsmaster wrote: sorry for not writing a 5 page post THAT THIS DUDE IS SCUM. Can we lynch Ace? I would like to keep his streak of getting mislynched in like almost every game.(scumslip :o) apologize for calling me scum bitch. | ||
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##unvote ##vote Oatsmaster | ||
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On April 23 2013 17:52 Clarity_nl wrote: I wouldn't lynch him right now, no. Would want to hear from him first. Don't have many full fledged opinions yet, but the people I was gonna look into next (that being tonight, have work soon) were gonna be giygas, bc and shiaopi (mainly because I don't remember much of them from reading through the thread) sup scum | ||
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On April 23 2013 21:42 Oatsmaster wrote: Again, worst reasoning ever. Cause im town. Yeah. Hopeless. Why am I scum? don't even care if you're scum. throwing suspicion on your emperor should be punishable by death. | ||
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I'd like to not lynch him later. VE is still scum. | ||
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as requested | ||
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On April 24 2013 04:12 yamato77 wrote: Vivax, don't fool yourself. Lynching town is never a good thing. I beg to differ, I think it's hilarious that we killed Oats. Hopefully other people will take notice what happens when people call me scum. | ||
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On April 24 2013 04:42 Vivax wrote: Thx BC. Palmar, is yamato still in your "who knows" category? He's next on the list of people who are up for lynch, so it'd be nice if you gave us an opinion with some color. probably town | ||
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On April 24 2013 05:07 WaveofShadow wrote: Palmar, do you consider BC's play so far to be awful? yep, and I think he's crazy wanting to lynch yamato. | ||
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On April 25 2013 03:07 raynpelikoneet wrote: Vivax: I asked Clarity about ShiaoPi because he promised to look into those three people. ShiaoPi didn't interest me much at that time. I wanted to see what Clarity came up on those people, cos i think Clarity is scum and if he looked at people i thought he was at least looking into people who he thought were scum when he was reading the thread. Turned out no.. Oh and i agree with the points you brought up against ShiaoPi. Sharrant: I understand you much better now. We certainly have quite a different way of approaching the game and now i can see your thought process behind your actions. I disagree with some of them being the "best way" to approach the situation but i understand you. I know i am sometimes bad at explaining stuff but i hope you can also look at what i have said from my PoV and at least try to understand why i am saying stuff i am. With that being said, here's my full list of reads. I don't care to make big paragraphs about people i find scummy, just a short summary, and i don't care to explain my townreads atm: Bill Murray Kushm4sta TheRavensName Vivax Grush57 getmoript Sharrant Hopeless1der Palmar - This is extremely shady. Palmar is either incredibly lazy or scum, but i put him on "likely town" because he seems to share a good portion of my reads. Null: Stutters695 - can't say much Tube - can't say much Drazak - can't say much Ace - honestly could be either way. i have a hard time reading him, brings up good points, i'm just not sure if they are against dumb townies or if those people are actually mafia BloodyCobbler - brings up some good points but there is so so little he has done. should share his wisdom more if town Yamato77 - i really dunno what to say. some stuff looks town, some stuff looks incredibly anti-town Scummy side of null: Mr. Cheesecake - Should do something other than tell people how town he is VisceraEyes - goes into same category with Palmar, except that i don't see anything particularly townie he has done ObviousOne - I have really hard time reading him. I thought he was mafia before, but his reads made me feel better about him Sylencia - big summary post of what some people have done and that's basically it.. WaveofShadow - what me + TRN said earlier today GiygaS - Did weird stuff on D1, especially his answers to me were not pleasing Clarity_nl - What has been brought up today ShiaoPi - What Vivax said If you got questions, ask me and i'll answer. Just pretend I wrote this post. I agree with just about everything in it. Except VE is firmly in the red zone for me. | ||
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I want to understand how a few roles work. I did not get notifed that I got shot, but there is a possibility I wouldn't get shot anyway. Me being roleblocked (jailed) and shot, seems like a sensible thing, but obviously it cannot be true if I would have been notified. | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:35 Ace wrote: Green font it and see if the mods make that info public. well yeah. In my games you get modkilled for directly asking the host a question in the thread, although I guess I also run my games a bit differently. In fact, what I did, imply that I was going to ask the host a question would probably get me modkilled in my own game anyway. So I wish I had just kept my mouth shut about it until BH clarified. thanks BH, for explaining. | ||
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On April 25 2013 05:43 VisceraEyes wrote: ZHER INTERESSANT I'm left wondering how Ace knew the intimate details of the role before I did, when I'm a mason FANBOY. :/ Did I miss something in the OP that's glaringly obvious or something? because your version of mason is super-stupid? | ||
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##Vote VisceraEyes | ||
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don't mind him he's not reading the thread. | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:20 Ace wrote: rayne VE has trouble reading the OP lol VE is trying to be like me. | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Always. <3 You'll never catch me listening to Gaga though. Baby you'll be famous, chase you down until you love me | ||
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On April 25 2013 06:26 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar intentionally trying to infuriate me and get me to shit up the thread. ##Vote: Palmar EZPZ infuriating you would be an improvement over what you've currently brought to the thread. | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Actually you don't, your vote is on town and you're acting like a dickhole. Please reconsider your tactics. This isn't an order, it's a request. so you're absolutely convinced yamato is town? | ||
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On April 25 2013 09:28 Ace wrote: ## vote ShiaoPi Palmar what is the actual case you have for lynching VE? he's not posting enough and he doesn't care enough. | ||
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On April 26 2013 03:46 raynpelikoneet wrote: Here's how i see things: Vivax was shot because he was on the right track and town read for like everyone. This means probably at least one of ShiaoPi / Clarity is mafia. If Vivax was double stacked he was likely even more right in his reads. But i don't think this is the case here. It's clear that whoever jailed Palmar thought he was town. Town jailers do not jail offensively and mafia jailers do not jail defensively on N1. As there is no other flip than Vivax' it's highly likely that Palmar was shot, because i can't see who else scum would have shot over him. I'm not even going to go to the fact that this would also require a doctor to target the same (other than Palmar) target. So unless someone else claims shot / roleblocked it's very likely that Palmar got shot and is town. I don't like ShiaoPi lynch because it was brought up by VE who i think is scum. If Vivax was right on both of ShiaoPi/Clarity then it doesn't matter, but if one of them is town it's probably ShiaoPi. As i think Palmar is town, i do not think he is wrong about VE. But if VE is not gonna get lynched today, i'm going to vote for Clarity over ShiaoPi. Now, you want to bring up an entirely different target in BC. Understandable, as you seem to think he is mafia. But you also bring up reasons why ShiaoPi/Clarity might be town. That is something i do not understand. If you think BC is better lynch than them, fine, push his lynch. But the way to do it is not by discrediting other people's cases unless you actually think they are town, which you don't seem to. Agree with everything, especially that ShiaoPi is probably town and Clarity is probably scum. | ||
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On April 26 2013 04:13 VisceraEyes wrote: Why lynch VE Palmar? because scum? | ||
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On April 26 2013 12:51 ObviousOne wrote: Yeah probably I just expected him to be around at this time and wanted to check if he was here, also I 100% believe in the rule but if he admits he isn't caught up then I will take that at face value. BM, would scum Palmar leave town you open as a possible mislynch instead of telling everyone: Basically that's where I ended up on you as well but it wasn't until some time later after everything settled in. From Palmar's perspective he is encouraging your possible scum reads and has essentially been playing by proxy +1'ing other people's posts. I guess I can see how he arrived there quickly since he was paying attention to you and I wasn't as concerned with getting a read on you at that point. not to mention I'm really good. so why are we not lynching VE yet? | ||
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But I do agree with a clarity lynch. I still don't understand how he entered the thread "catching up" and then had a fully fledged case within an hour. There was additionally no interest in pushing that lynch any harder. There is literally not a single "sharrant" in his filter after the case. It just doesn't feel natural. He didn't ask Sharrant anything to try to determine his alignment, no "hey sharrant, explain this" or "what do you think about this". Just a straight up case with no build-up and no follow-up. Which basically tells me his heart wasn't really in it. So with that I'm switching my vote to Clarity. Lessgo. | ||
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not many scumspects left. | ||
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On April 28 2013 05:56 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Shoot waveofshadow 100% listen to this man, he speaketh truth | ||
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changed my mind. Shoot VE for being wrong and bad. | ||
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On April 28 2013 06:01 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh and don't bother not vigging and trying to DT check me because I'm self-aware miller. You guys need to decide if you don't trust me and want me gone or not. lol self-aware millers should play ridiculously pro-town, you haven't. Do you hate winning? | ||
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On April 28 2013 13:33 Ace wrote: to be extra thorough - while it is still possible WoS is scum that miller claim doesn't warrant a vigi shot. It does nothing to free up extra information, as if WoS flips Miller it is a wasted shot. For now you should give him the benefit of the doubt. Look at other people on the Oats +Shiapi wagon clash cases. yamato and VE are both there. So is Palmar, hopeless1nder, and a few others. WoS is there too but as said I think he gets a temporary pass. Limit that pool via what you know by reading objectively first, then read them from both scum and town p.o.v. Do it for all of them! WoS doesn't come close to being the top vigi target when you do this. Incorrect, I was never on ShiaoPi's wagon. | ||
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On April 28 2013 21:52 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar still scum. He's still done nothing aside from vote for Clarity, and considering Clarity's inactivity taht's not enough to shake my scum read of him. Aside from this act, he's done nothing to help find scum. Me being right and you being wrong tells us nothing about either of our alignments, it just means hell hasn't frozen over yet. | ||
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On April 28 2013 22:08 VisceraEyes wrote: First of all, you did just as much to try and derail the Clarity wagon as I did with your fail VE push yesterday, so don't toot your horn too loudly. Secondly, you're wrong about me so again - watch what you say when town KP might be aimed at me Palmar. we sure as hell know mafia kp isn't going to be aimed at you. | ||
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The entire reason I think you're scum is that I think you're a good, transparent town player, which you're not this game. | ||
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On April 29 2013 02:19 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Also note. Palmar has also done a lot of really weird shit this game that irks me the wrong way, however I am giving him one last day before I begin to fully focus on him. thank you o mighty cobbler. | ||
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On April 29 2013 03:27 GiygaS wrote: EBWOP: I do agree with BC that Plamar is a better vig than lynch though. Explain this immediately. If you cannot give reasonings right now you're scum. | ||
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On April 29 2013 05:56 Sharrant wrote: How many posts did Palmar make? Can you please paraphrase as best you can as to his actual respones, with as little as bias as possible. 3 posts (cba checking) 1 about asking TRN why he chose me and what he hoped to achieve. 2 saying I wanted to lynch VE and hadn't read into WoS 3 the post TRN mentioned about "oats was always going to flip town". | ||
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On April 29 2013 06:24 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'd say there's a good chance Grush got shot by a vig. He was pretty much unreadable. If he wasn't, I doubt we have one since there were plenty of targets to choose from. Rayn is an understandable choice. He was under minor suspicion but very unlikely to get lynched, as well as unlikely to be protected. Grush was obvtown and you're bad. | ||
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On April 29 2013 07:02 VisceraEyes wrote: I have no friends in this game. Everyone is scum and you're all out to get me. no we can be friends I only need two words from you and I will be your friend. | ||
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Much more simple, they should preferably not be in this thread. I want to kill the cobbler. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:12 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Will it be as convincing as your push on VE? Are you telling me you don't want to lynch the cobbler? | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:14 Artanis[Xp] wrote: No, I would be happy to lynch the cobbler. Your change of target pleases me, but I was wondering what kind of expectations I should have for your push of him. Expect a good show. | ||
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Do you need any further convincing or can I count you among my allies? I would rather not stand alone when the fireworks start. | ||
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I sorely miss rayn. He was everything to me this game, my brother, my captain, my king. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:25 ObviousOne wrote: Holy shit please explain I can't even filter him til my relatives leave. Only the enlightened will understand. Not filth like you. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:33 TheRavensName wrote: I suppose my number one person I would like to look at is Yamato, I dislike that he trolled at the start and got serrious when he was about to die. He tried to distance himself from the first lynched, and stated multiple times that he felt clarity had done nonthing alignment indicative and would be a bad lynch. He even voed Shiao when he thought both Shiao and Clarit were bad lynches, and strangely wanted to vote Shiao over Clarity, then goes on to say he never defended clarity, when constnatly saying nothing he is doing is really alignment indicative is soft defending him. hush. All your musings are irrelevant now. Later they might have value, but now you must choose. Me, or the cobbler Good, or evil. | ||
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Did you not notice that gauntlet on the ground? Today, I wish to test my skill against the legendary cobbler. As night falls, one of us will be dead. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:37 TheRavensName wrote: i think Cobbler could be scum and you are a SK. We killed the scum Vigi and they only have 1 kill power yet 2 people died. If you think that, surely you should be willing to join my legion of just and honest men. You can always kill me later, right? | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:45 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Palmar, pushing lynches on townies since the beginning of his mafia career. Bring a case Palmar. Til then you are not worth my time. Oh there will be a case. But first I need allies. So far I have Artanis[xp]. | ||
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On April 29 2013 08:53 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If you need allies you aren't intending on making a real case. You are intending one of said allies does the work for you, I flip town, and you blame them. Come on Palmar. If you thought I was mafia and you town you would have already begun making said case. Instead you are pestering people to see if you have enough people already willing to vote for me to avoid having to do any work. The more you keep going on this charade of "finding people" the more confirmed you are as not town. Your annoyance I could foresee, you did not expect to have to deal with this today. You say I am not town, well let us fight then, to the death. BloodyC0bbler I hereby challenge you to a duel to the death. We will fight today, from sunrise to sunset. The field of honour will be this very thread. The ammunition, our words, the weapons their votes. One will walk, one will hang. Your move. | ||
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Also BC, did you ever explain why it would be a better idea to vig me than to lynch me? | ||
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On April 29 2013 09:36 TheRavensName wrote: Personally I think that would be a waste of a shot since you have night protection. I did not ask you, I wanted BC's explanation for his statement. It's one of his slips this game. He called out for a player that he knew could be active, had the support of several important townies, to be vigged. I wonder if he was simply afraid that he would never be able to mislynch me? | ||
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am cop checked BC BC guilty go go wagon. | ||
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On April 25 2013 04:30 Palmar wrote: I got roleblocked last night. | ||
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On April 29 2013 05:47 TheRavensName wrote: He also mentioned that "oh oats was always gonna flip town. I didn't really care much for reasons best left unexplained. " Even a scum would at least kind of care right? The reasons best left unexplained have now been explained. I was actively trying to be useless/awful without sabotaging town. I usually say it's a terrible idea to change your play when you roll blue... but my normal play gets me shot night 1 almost every damn game, so I decided to give it a shot. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:05 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: How do you know you are sane? You could be paranoid or insane, correct? Granted I'd love to kill me a BC... yes, I could be both paranoid or insane, I could also be mafia. hell I claimed cop once as mafia with an innocent check on a townie and a guilty check on another townie who flipped during the night, explained that I must be an insane cop so the innocent townie must in fact be scum. the innocent townie was a pgo, so I wouldn't have been able to visit him anyway, he still got lynched cause lulz. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:06 Ace wrote: is that a real claim palmar. lol @ cc. he got rb'd N1. read plz. yah real. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:09 WaveofShadow wrote: HAHA oh man. This is awesome. Except which cop are you? I'm going to assume alignment since you wouldn't have a parity check yet since you were blocked N1. Now if you're alignment cop a guilty check doesn't mean shit yet since you could be any sanity. Man I wish I could believe you though since I have a hard time believing we'd have more than two millers on town just in case he tried to claim. Wat do? I'm professor trelawney, who was known to be perfectly sane and such. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmar I just have to say your check doesn't mean shit until you get another check... =\ or until we flip the cobbler. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:10 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: Palmar I just have to say your check doesn't mean shit until you get another check... =\ would you really miss him that much? | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:13 Ace wrote: its fake. If you knew Oats was innocent you'd be more interested to stop the lynch on him, especially if you believe someone else, like say yamato was scummier. You also appear on Oats' wagon twice - if you knew he was innocent you wouldnt even have voted. If you get a guilty result on BC with only 1 check, with no way to confirm sanity you're just hoping we're all dumb enough to buy it at face value. Fake claim + your day 1 actions dont match. ## vote Palmar okay, you're bad and should feel bad. | ||
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never have, never will | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Palmar honestly, wtf. What is your goal here? Do you honestly expect people to follow along with you when you riled everyone up and promised some epic war with epic words and arguments, and then deliver this? It's like we just had sex for the first time and I left disappointed because you only lasted 8 seconds. yeah sorry, but I just cba. I actually had a half-edited declaration of war on bloodycobbler in a notepad, but really just don't have the energy to argue with everyone. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:17 Ace wrote: you're a cop, had got masoned, didn't post in the mason QT and didn't even think to investigate the guy you were masoned with? if you didnt trust him enough to post in the QT then where is the sense in checking BC out? explain. I'm a cop Got masoned Got bored of the mason QT Didn't see the reason to investigate him, he looked somewhat town, yet not confirmed enough for me to outright claim. I trusted him well enough to post in the QT, I just didn't. | ||
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the closest thing I left as a crumb is the "reasons best left unexplained" about my apathy towards the oats lynch. Who I thought was pretty likely to flip town by the end of the day (my early suspicions on him were genuine). | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:22 TheRavensName wrote: I'm not sure how that was a crumb. If he had been lynched after you could have checked him, sure. But still man... I don't crumb. I never do. | ||
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you're either insane or sane. I doubt you're scum because even 2 mislynches aren't that good for mafia if we get 1 scum in return. | ||
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cheesecake is definitely insane or sane, and just based on the fact I've always thought shiaopi was town, I'm going to guess sane. So it's likely I'm either insane or paranoid, as 2 cops sounds like a handful for mafia to handle. So we lynch sylencia, that confirms cc's sanity, meanwhile since he's either insane or sane he'll get guaranteed checks, mafia has to shoot or rb him, so I might get another check off. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:28 Sharrant wrote: This seems pretty reasonable. I will be voting Sylencia. Palmar Who did you try and check on N1? BC | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:31 Ace wrote: no, we aren't lynching syl. There is stupidity going on right now. CC - I dont know why you checked Shiao Night 1. That is a major stretch that you check him, he gets brought up, temp cleared, and then you check sylencia. thats 2 lurkers who have no impact on the game that you checked. not buying it. especially since you just claimed, without counter claiming Palmar. If you believe Palmar is a Cop there is no point in claiming right now as you'd let BC die with your vote. If you dont believe him, you vote him off. Claiming right now to add another suspect in the pool is nonsense. its not even been an hour since your case on sylencia - you could have pushed it ot let it marinate more. Your urgency shows little thinking here. Lastly, you also can not confirm your check. Shiao hasn't flipped. We've got 2 Cops, both unconfirmed claiming results on the same day within an hour of each other. Both that also appeared on the infamous Oats wagon analysis. bullshit. one of you is definitely lying and both of you made a bad play here. lol Ace we ARE lynching sylencia. absolute worst case scenario is CC is scum and we lynch townies for 2 days before lynching or vigging CC in return, leaving us with plenty of townies and like 2 mafia left. something like 11 townies maybe? You're crazy if you don't lynch sylencia. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:33 Sharrant wrote: Well, if nothing else that part of your story is believable. I think that it's funny that your "attempting to play awful" gave me a strong town read on you though. Well I tried to establish myself as town on day 1 without being a threat to the mafia. I honestly think they might have shot me night 1 though anyway ^^ | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:34 Ace wrote: Sharrant dont vote syl yet. Look at those detective checks. Why would he investigate those 2 and claim when he is unconfirmed? he just made a case on sylencia - what is the rush? Palmar's claim should cause him to NOT claim if he is a real detective. he panicked, who cares? people play like shit occasionally, I just made a premature claim because I'm lazy. Stop with the nonsense. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:35 Ace wrote: you claimed cop, couldn't even substantiate it, voted to lynch BC off and are now going against that check to vote another unconfirmed cop's suspect off. you aren't this bad. stop it. Not going against my check, it's simple statistics. I know I'm paranoid, insane or sane. If I lynch BC and he flips scum I'm paranoid or sane if he flips town I'm insane or paranoid, neither case concludes my sanity. however CC's check is on someone I have a strong townread on as town, and he has one of each, so we know he's not naive or paranoid. Best case: he's sane, we kill scum almost as good: he's insane, I'm wrong, we kill townie today and get scum tomorrow. There's 15v3v1 likely alive today, so that means we lynch scum tomorrow and end up in like 10v2v1 on day 5 worst case: he's scum, we lynch townies two days in a row and end up in 7v2v1 on day 6, which is still very, very winnable. expanding worst case: now: 15-3-1 lynch 14-3-1 2kills 12-3-1 lynch 11-3-1 2kills 9-3-1 lynch 9-2-1 2kills 7-2-1 | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:46 Ace wrote: its really a matter of which one of these 2 is more rotten, and its possible both are. the pool of Palmar, VE, yamato, and now Mr.CC stinks. I dont believe both Palmar and Mr.CC can be so dumb as to not think their claims and current game situation out. Not buying it. Ace being Ace. We're lynching Sylencia. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:49 Mr. Cheesecake wrote: I wouldn't have claimed if Palmar didn't go full retard and give us a red check without any prior checks. The situation could have turned out STUPID bad if BC was town and Palmar was actually insane cop, hedging his bets on being sane. But I like killing people so I get excited. Anyway, it's irrelevant. I had you as town read for most of the game, I've usually thought of you as nully to leaning town, and then you of course went and looked real town with grush after that hammer post. So, I don't think you're scum, which basically means I'm pretty cool with killing sylencia as he looks awful anyway, and shaiopi looks somewhat towny. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:52 WaveofShadow wrote: I personally don't understand the motivation behind many of these plays....like....if you're town and you pull this shit because you're lazy; you're effectively making it harder for us to win. I could ask this question of a lot of people in this game: why play the game if you're just going to fuck around? I don't understand the town OR scum motivation behind the claims tbh---I feel like I'm more likely to just ignore all of this shit and push personal scumreads today than risk being manipulated or succumb to shit play tactics. pro-tip, this will entirely dominate all discussion today so you best pick sides. | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:54 VisceraEyes wrote: Wow guys I....is this a bad time to claim? Gosh e'ery one else is claiming and now I wanna claim too :OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO wanna lynch sylencia buddy? | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:54 Palmar wrote: @Ace no one cares whether or not you think it was dumb or smart of us to claim. We did it, now we deal with it. For the record, both CC and I are impulsive idiots, but what's done is done. | ||
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Only ballers just fuck logic and do as they want *high five* | ||
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On April 29 2013 10:57 Ace wrote: lol both of you are so bad and what are you going to do about it bitch? | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Just....hold on a second. Surely one of you is insane right? SURELY. probably, or paranoid, since we both have guilty checks. We lynch CC's check because he has both guilty and inno, so he's either sane or insane. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:01 Ace wrote: rape you both. lol @ Mr.CC claiming grush's death as an excuse for him getting shot. Stop it. Stop trying so hard to be smart. Just roll with it. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Why the fuck WAS grush killed last night? Actually I know. Inconspicuous 3rd party target, unlikely to be a threat to 3rd party or scum so just an easy town numbers reduction for 3rd party. Rayn was for sure the scum target. Aaaaaanyway, gonna look into Sylencia myself. grush was obvtown and such. and a safe shot. | ||
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Also, no scum ever fakeclaims on TL anyway, so screw it. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:06 Ace wrote: and now VE and the other scumbucket yamato show up. Something extremely foul is going on here. What kind of stupid plot are you running Palmar? You wont even vote for your target BC. why so willing to sheep so quickly? Is this a mega bus of sylencia so both of you can gain cred lynching BC the potential third party? both of you buying each other's claims so quickly REEKS of scum play. just filthy. yeah buddy you got me, also the moon landing was fake. Scumteam me, ve, yamato, sylencia and cc. | ||
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On April 29 2013 11:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar disappeared right when shit got real. Why Palmar, why? Sleep sorry 2:20 am | ||
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so either shiaopi is scum and cc is insane, or cc is scum whatever. | ||
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On April 29 2013 20:30 ObviousOne wrote: You gonna check me to verify your sanity Palmar? nope but this is actually a good question When a cop flips, will his sanity be revealed? That's usually how it goes, but best be sure I think | ||
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Bill Murray - no claim, too little activity lately, but lookd town early Stutters695 - doesn't do anything Kushm4sta - hasn't done shit lately getmoript - still looks awful, but cheated and didn't get modkilled so lynching him is pointless. if he's scum the game is invalid anyway. hasn't done jack shit. ObviousOne - guilty check (palmar) same as shiaopi check (VE). claims VT (and thus possibly miller) TheRavensName - mason, mason'd me then someone else GiygaS - giggles, mostly useless Ace - looks somewhat town, been trying to figure shit out Artanis[Xp] - replacement, no idea, maybe town Sharrant - sometimes looks towny, mostly inactive. Yamato77 - I still think maybe town, playing very strangely from his town game, but whatever. ShiaoPi - inno check from a flipped cop who is probably insane, so basically a guilty check. Palmar - claims cop, guilty checks on BC and ObviousOne Hopeless1der - looked town early BloodyCobbler - guilty check from Palmar VisceraEyes - claims paranoid cop. OO and shiaopi are same alignment. | ||
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so that means VE has you inno, I have you guilty. guess I'm paranoid (or insane). Or VE is lying and is scum. dunnoh, we know what to do for now. | ||
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But just the act of picking me looks pretty good. | ||
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On April 30 2013 23:25 Artanis[Xp] wrote: It's a plausible explanation, but there were still plenty of people that at least mildly suspected BC. I don't think Palmar would've started a gambit like this and halfass it that much only to abandon it the next day, though it is possible that he did so because two other people claimed cop which he didn't expect. Hmm. It's also strange that Palmar was on VE's case so much all through D1 and I believe D2 then didn't end up checking him, but rather the cobbler which he only mentioned twice before that day, once in the "list of bloodycobblers" and once in response to getting called out by him. Palmar, why did you end up checking BC instead of VE when you called him scum all day, and what caused you to change your read on VE? I checked BC both day 1 and day 2. I just tunneled VE because it felt nice. | ||
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Maybe in 2010. | ||
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On May 01 2013 05:44 VisceraEyes wrote: OH PALMAR WHO'S YORU SCUMBUDDY? IS IT ARTANIS? Make it real small so that only I can see it! Everyone will promise not to look right guys? Ace | ||
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On May 01 2013 09:23 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Yamato is trying in some varying degree so I feel I could be wrong now. Instead of 100% im more sitting on like 80% whereas Palmar's behaviour since just before and everything after his cop claim has just been insanely scumlike. I believe there is a strong possibility of both being scum, however in this case I feel Palmar's play has been far more scummy. HEHE BC SO TOWN | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:01 VisceraEyes wrote: My 2c is that a town Palmar might have been interested in confirming his sanity BY lynching you...made evidenced by how little he actually TRIED to get you lynched and how quickly he freeformed into a Sylencia lynch. Logic makes me think that he would have tried to push you as more important to get rid of if scum AS scum. But yeah that's WIFOM and whatever. I'M CAPABLE OF THINKING BUT I'M GOING TO IGNORE IT AND CALL IT WIFOM HEURR HEURR | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:02 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Id say countering that is the bit of him claiming he would make an analysis post on me and instead opted not to. Hell he said he tunneled you because it was fun? I can't see a town member doing this -_- This is a lie, you've played enough games and seen enough games with me you know I like doing shit for the heck of it. Why are you misrepresenting or generalizing my play up to some ideal standard? | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:03 VisceraEyes wrote: Dude stop! It IS WIFOM - I'm just trying to consider townie motivations. But please, feel free to continue discrediting the one person saying you should NOT be lynched first. it isn't wifom. I was going to go all out epic war with BC, but I'm having like the worst case of the cba this game. So I just claimed. I figured he was scummy enough to confirm my sanity, didn't think anyone was actually going to miss bc. also did not expect like a million other claims. | ||
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1. Yell at oats for calling me scum 2. Try to look somewhat town day 1 3. realize rayn is town and trying, sheep everything he's saying 4. realize Oats probably town, but whatever, just lynch him for being a dick in case I'm wrong 5. notice clarity's ridiculous case timing 6. notice VE still hasn't done jack shit 7. get roleblocked 8. tunnel VE a bit 9. think shiaopi is town, help push the clarity wagon 10. troll a bit 11. get a guilty on bc, wanted to make it epic 12. cba 13. claim cop 14. wtf everyone is a cop 15. whatever, we lynch in the correct order 16. now everyone thinks I'm scum? | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:12 VisceraEyes wrote: I've taken the liberty of removing things that are null in determining your alignment. good, so i'm null. I'm perfectly fine with that. Fine with whatever doesn't get me lynched. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:15 VisceraEyes wrote: You guys TRIED to concede and were told you couldn't weren't you? Would you promise to concede if we lynch the third party next? idk, I'm actually town buddy. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I am town. But its nice to know you still can't read me for shit. you never do jack shit on the one day of mafia that I think matters and the one day I'm actually very good at, day 1. So I don't care if I can't read you, not my problem | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: See I don't explain myself a lot but I do shit if required. Hell the last few games I've played I have had usually the best reads day 1 in the games I am in. I just don't explain them. Why? Because explaining the feeling of "Off" based on like 1-2 posts someone makes is not useful. You can say you are really good at day 1, but I didn't see you catching mafia, I saw you being a dick to a player who called you out. yah this game. I've said it multiple times, I decided to try to be awful and not too influential (hence proxy playing through rayn) due to my role. I get shot night 1 more than just about anyone. | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:28 Stutters695 wrote: Palmar I'm on my phone so I cba to search your entire filter but why claim when your sanity was unknown when there is a 50% chance your check is wrong and a lynch doesn't even guarantee determining your sanity? cause idc? and I think bc is scum regardless of my check? | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:39 WaveofShadow wrote: Say I were to look into it; what would this prove exactly? can you honestly not figure that out? | ||
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On May 01 2013 10:15 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I am town. But its nice to know you still can't read me for shit. If I was scum, as you seem to be pretty sure of, I wouldn't be reading you would I. But you know I'm town, so heh! gotcha! | ||
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On May 02 2013 01:22 VisceraEyes wrote: Palmar what say you? I won't be here to manipulate/reason with if you're town so now's the time sir. mine is better but yours is ok. | ||
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but then again if he's just gonna afk we might as well murder him. | ||
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On May 02 2013 06:40 Ace wrote: I've got a job but my activity hasn't died. I've been around. And yes OF COURSE I was roleblocked. Palmar gets lynched because his claim was shoddy to begin with. "I'm lazy" isn't a valid defense lol. He wanted to lynch BC and didn't even take into account he could be paranoid. Get rid of him. Still want to lynch BC. I checked him cause I thought he was scum. | ||
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So just hold your horses until I go to sleep tomorrow night, then you can lynch me if you want to. Even if you think I'm scum it's strictly the wrong play to not let me share all my thoughts, since you might find a "slip" to who is my "teammate" in it. | ||
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gj yamato you're boss. | ||
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On May 03 2013 01:13 Stutters695 wrote: I'll type up a more detailed version soon but I'm not nearly as sold on it as I am on hopeless or even Palmar. I'm having doubts about Palmar but until he delivers on his promised big post I'd rather him over bc. that's cause you're BC's remaining scumbuddy. | ||
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I cba if you're actually not going to kill me. Gonna play some dota instead. also it's scummy to think I'm scum at this point. | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:02 Sharrant wrote: As do I, but the whole reason we're having this conversation is because Palmar sait that Ace is confirmed as third party, however unlikely mafia shooting Grush is, only mafia know for certain whether Ace is third party or not. Thus it is very important. And yeah, WoS, I just felt it needed to be reminded to everyone else again. Only the first bit was about you, the rest was to everyone else. Patience and repetition. Hey, Palmar, what checks did you do, and what results did you receive? You checked BC (RB'ed), BC (guilty), VE (guilty) is there one I'm missing? I was roleblocked n1 | ||
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On May 02 2013 10:14 TheRavensName wrote: If that was the case, he would have said so as his reasonings. he would say " I explained why, your going to hit town just accept it unless yo uget lucky Go listen to the podcast again.." He said for reasons not explained, if he had time to do a cop check first, that would be one thing. But I want to know what those unexplained reasons are, This was not a satisfactory answer. Well it's the true answer, do you want me to go make up reasons to make you happy? | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:06 Sharrant wrote: So you've had 3 guilty checks so far, yes? One on one confirmed town, one on a cop checked town, and one on BC, yes? yep | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:10 Hopeless1der wrote: Palmar->BC->Yamato-> (Ace) I'm not scum buddy. | ||
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Then when this game started I noticed a completely different BM playing, so I'm almost certain he is not scum. | ||
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Do you sincerely think this information is not useful? | ||
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On May 03 2013 06:59 WaveofShadow wrote: My point is NOBODY SUGGESTED BM WAS SCUM AT THIS POINT. We clearly have 3-4 people lined up to lynch; where does BM factor in to those? Acting smug isn't going to help you, it only makes you look like a jerk Maybe I'll be back later if somebody flips. You're an idiot. I'm going to die at some point in the game. At that point I hope to leave everything I think/know about the game behind, so people can analyse it. Now people know I have a very strong townread on BM. | ||
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On May 03 2013 15:02 ObviousOne wrote: Clear up this mason thing STAT, either BM has two people confused or ???. Meanwhile voting hopeless because lulz shamelessly sheeping and not so secretly hoping it's true so my BC mind read works out. Also to anyone voting Ace today: wtf?? Project for later. Issuing you a DMCA takedown request. Used up my brainpower yesterday, still recharging. O'Doyle Rules. OO you're confirmed town so please pull your head out of your ass. Explain in detail why you think leaving Ace for later is a good idea, knowing that you're essentially forcing our JK to roleblock him instead of attempting to save townies? | ||
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On May 03 2013 21:59 ObviousOne wrote: Palmar, those reads you were planning to give if we were going to lynch you? Maybe have them ready before night ends since you probably don't get protected based on your current, ahem, "enthusiasm" in this game? Thx. well yeah. I will probably be writing short thoughts here and there like I've been doing (see bill murray and hopeless) | ||
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On May 03 2013 23:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't think Artanis is mafia, though what happened to the big push on BC? As for whether to lynch Ace or no, each side makes halfway decent points. I don't necessarily agree with 'freeing up our JK' since out of like 10-11 townies you have to choose the right one? We're going to lose someone tonight either way so I'm not sure what the strength of that point is. I also disagree with Sharant's 'second vigi' theory which I've already explained but I'm still not voting Ace. This day is going absolutely nowhere and the longer it takes the more I'm likely to do something fucking stupid and change my vote to someting I don't truly want just for a flip. Ugh. Also Palmar, regarding the last page or so. I'm not an idiot; you're being deliberately lazy and unhelpful by not assisting us with our current dilemmas. I'm not saying your read isn't useful for when you flip but there is a time and place, and rather than help us decide our lynch for the day, you post a read on BM that no one needs right now. Why not post a read like that at night if you're so afraid you're going to die? Don't you dare try to bully me or others into agreeing with you. I already said what I want to do now. Lynch BC (because he's scummy) or Ace (because RBs and KPs almost confirm him 3p). And I don't really care when you think it's fit for me to do x or y, I'm not trying to bully anyone into anything, you're the one trying that. | ||
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You're absolutely certain that I am scum. I am absolutely certain you are scum. Town has plenty of mislynches. We randomly choose one of us to die today, then the other flips the next day. | ||
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I kinda meant to ignore you, but I can respond to it if you want me to | ||
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. As long as you're absolutely 100% cool with an automatic lynch on you when I flip town. I don't even care if I get lynched tomorrow. Hell let's just lynch me and get it over with! | ||
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On May 04 2013 05:29 BloodyC0bbler wrote: If you flip town we have both had an atrocious game ok. let's do it. It'll be glorious. | ||
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I actually didn't expect you to be so willing to trade your life for mine, as 1 for 1 scum/town is terrible at this point in the game, and you kinda look like you've accepted that if I flip town you'll die. So, now I think there's a tiny chance you may actually somehow be town. And since it's not like we can murder each other let's play the game a tiny bit differently. You and I assume each other are confirmed town, and we scumhunt in the rest of town. I have some free time tonight, you in? | ||
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On May 04 2013 05:40 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I have some time I can likely spare tonight. Might as well ok I'll be back an about 30m-1h First topic: My very strong townread on Bill Murray based on his day 1 posting. I was not kidding when I said "towniest fucker in the thread" His play is enormously different from what I've come to expect of scum murray. Would you agree that BM shouldn't be a lynch candidate? respond, and throw me one of your reads. Let's ping pong the remaining players like that. | ||
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On May 04 2013 06:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: As things stand now I find it very unlikely for him to be mafia. He hasn't done much but what he does done reeks of someone who is strongly town aligned. I want to hear your opinion on stutters. Guy has replaced in for drH and since joining the game has done absolutely nothing that I would consider helpful in any sense. What say you? Even then he very quickly took a stance on shiaopi and clarity, in both cases calling them scum. I'm not sure, it could've been been bus, but it's a pretty hard bus if it is. He even rejected both the VE and Palmar attempts on day 2 in favor of trying to lynch shiaopi On April 27 2013 04:19 Stutters695 wrote: One of them is done, I have a few more next week but this was the hardest one. Of the people who seem lynchable today: VE: I really don't see how VE is doing anything lynchable that ShiaoPi isn't doing worse. I disagree with his reads, but I'm not seeing the "lazy" VE that Palmar is mentioning. At least not to the extent that he should be lynched over some of these other people. ShiaoPi: Pretty much the only thing I've said in my few posts. Easily my choice for a lynch currently. When I was catching up before joining I noticed similar things to VE and Vivax on that. He hammered a town player (would be understandable if he had expressed any interest before that) and has actively been avoiding major topics. Clarity-nl: TBH he doesn't seem as bad as others are making him sound but I need to go over his stuff in context of the thread. Again I see questionable stuff but nothing that comes close to what i see as shady about Shiao. This is not even the first time he mentions shiaopi. At least he was aware of cases being made against shiaopi, as demonstrated by this port here: On April 26 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote: VE:I thought between the Vivax case and your points that the case on Shiao was pretty good. What specifically made you switch to Palmar over Shiao? I can understand why Palmar's posting is like he is, but Shiao has hammered oats when he hadn't interacted or even mentioned him all game with a very weak justification (Oats wasn't doing shit so why not hammer him for info [which he never brought up again]). I'm just not following what made you so sold on Palmar over him. While I'm not going to go as far as give a townread on him, I'd say he's unlikely to be scum. | ||
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here's the post I mentioned him being town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18487429 here's the backtrack (within a page): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18482210 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18482256 What do you think about him? | ||
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He also made a few posts that just don't add perfectly up if he's scum. The first one being the misconception about the scum night kill, because it's hard to feign the idea so casually: On April 25 2013 05:53 kushm4sta wrote: inb4 scumpalmar was roleblocked and thats why theres only 1 nk Also, this read of his on VE: On April 25 2013 14:52 kushm4sta wrote: hi ace. you aren't town this game so i'm not listening to your suggestions and nor should anyone else. VE is town. He is town from his first post in the game. only town would complain about having to read the op (because the role names weren't colored) I am gonna vote for shiaopi. I don't want to go for clarity because now Ace is pushing it. A very similar thing happened yesterday. Yamato was the popular lynch, then Ace pushed Oats, claiming the case on Oats was really good (even though in retrospect it sucked). Means he's thinking about the game from a townie perspective. No one else (I can remember) pointed out this idea that VE was town based on this. The last point has an obvious bias, knowing I am town: Kush basically understands that this post cannot be made by a scum palmar as it's too legit and too in line with what I had been saying all day. Maybe he's a scummer giving me a warm fuzzy feeling about the posts, but it's just too many little things that kush has done throughout the game for me to call him scum. | ||
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On April 22 2013 10:21 kushm4sta wrote: Giygas as your self appointed lawyer I must remind you that you do not have to answer any of these questions, as you have not yet been charged with a crime. Kush is just too involved, genuine and carefree for me to think he's scum. | ||
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Confirmed town for the sake of the discussion: BC/Palmar Town based on what we have so far Kush Artanis Bill Murray Town based on other things (cop checks, modconfirms) geript OO Null-ish: Stutters Remaining: yamato hopeless1der sharrant giggles waveofshadow TRN | ||
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On May 04 2013 07:11 WaveofShadow wrote: I had a very angry post I was about to submit but I've decided against it. I think I know what to expect in future games so as not to reach this point. what are you angry about buddy? | ||
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I'm reading Sharrant atm, but feel free to throw out thoughts as you go. | ||
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On April 25 2013 03:42 Sharrant wrote: I've got to pretty much echo Rayne's list at this point with a few changes: Super town: BM Vivax Kush Palmar Town: Yamato ObviousOne Geript Rayne TRN Slightly town: Ace BC Sylencia Hopeless Null: Drazak Tube Mr. Cheesecake VisceraEyes WoS Grush Lynch one of these tomorrow: Clarity ShiaoPi Less good lynches, but still good lynches: Giygas Stutters695 (A better vig shot, but is very likely to be scum in my eyes) | ||
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also what OO said. he gets massive leeway. | ||
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But mostly yeah | ||
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On May 05 2013 14:12 yamato77 wrote: Yes, you can, because scum wouldn't jail their own N1. Stopping a cop/other jailer is so much more important than the "town cred" from a N1 roleblock. Scum can withhold their jail thing to claim a roleblock. | ||
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On May 05 2013 23:18 Sharrant wrote: That too. Palmar: Who did you check last night, what was the result? Didn't even send in a check. | ||
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I'm not as certain as I used to be that BC is scum... but look at what he did and how he did it last night. I'm somewhat conflicted but it certainly looks like he had some sort of questions regarding the targets he selected, only to immediately drop them when I explained my stance. On May 04 2013 06:00 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I want to hear your opinion on stutters. Guy has replaced in for drH and since joining the game has done absolutely nothing that I would consider helpful in any sense. What say you? On May 04 2013 06:55 BloodyC0bbler wrote: I would like your opinion on Kush. The guy has been inactive most of the game and has spent a ton of time hopping on popular sentiment as it happens. He always seems to be around to jump onto the popular wagon at the time and doesn't ever push what he thinks should be done. On May 04 2013 07:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: that leaves us with yamato, hopeless and giggles. Of them all 3 have major points against them that they could be mafia. By my count he has like 6 serious suspicions (including me) before we started our back and forth. It just doesn't look right. Also I feel like the effort put into that back-and-forth was somewhat uneven. (me doing a lot, BC doing little). But I need to think on it. | ||
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Man I'm bad | ||
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On May 06 2013 04:23 Sharrant wrote: I kind of hate this, because I'm now waffling about lynching you today. I do think you need to die unless we lynch scum the next two nights, and I'm sure you can understand that you're going to have to be lynched regardless of your alignment. The idea of leaving you alive into the night phase is a very tempting one. If nothing else, let's chat about what's left in this game so that whenever you flip we've got some more information to go on. What do you think about Artanis asking the jailer to claim? I don't think it tells us much about Artanis's alignment at all. I stand by my earlier assessment that he's town. I am certain we need to lynch into these 4 people, based on my analysis during the night, with the added dimension that I think you must be town because you would have shot me if you realized I could be insane. Giggles BC Yamato Hopless I am inclined to lynch BC, based on what I wrote earlier about his effort and attitude towards the discussion I brought up during the night. I think we now 100% know what his reads are (Hopeless/Yamato) since he stated them pretty clearly, so if he flips town, we have all the information we need from him. I don't think he'll flip town though. | ||
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On May 06 2013 06:21 BloodyC0bbler wrote: go for it if you want. I will flip town and then you will have to worry about town wanting to lynch you. My firm belief is yamato and hopeless are the last two. I could be wrong, but given the current players left (myself included) i can make a case against every one of us as to why we could be scum. If town thinks its best to off me first then lynch into my reads, so be it. Town wants to lynch me anyway. But who should be our first lynch if you flip town? | ||
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On May 06 2013 17:27 yamato77 wrote: Knowing which if those four scenarios is the truth is impossible without lynching Palmar. What kind of cop cares so little about figuring out his sanity in a game like this that he not only claims after one check, but also FORGETS TO SEND IN A CHECK after having not even confirmed his own sanity? Palmar is not this bad at mafia. you're awful or mafia. | ||
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I botched my role. But it's equally botched if I'm scum or town. There is no more chance that I mess up my role or "role" depending on what you perceive my alignment to be, as scum or town, so there is nothing that tells you I'm mafia from making a mistake. My claim to fame, and the reason people perceive me as a strong player is two things, my day 1 play which has an unusually high amount of success, mostly based on my ability to pick out townies on day 1 and thus increase the chances of a successful lynch, and secondly my ability to persuade and influence a thread. Nowhere will you find anyone claim that I'm some mastermind at using roles or game mechanics, in fact I'm notorious for ignoring game mechanics and roles, hell I basically threw a game for town once by forcing mass claims on town when scum had like infinite claimer-KP, because I just ignore the mechanics of games. I don't often roll cop, I don't spend much time thinking about my role. I just do whatever. I thought/think BC is scum and figuring out my sanity is something I hardly cared about. I had a guilty check on a guy who I thought was scum, so I just thought fuck it let's do this. Worst case I lynch a scummy towner and know something's wrong with my sanity. It's terrible play to lynch me right now. Scum has to worry about me actually being insane, and thus capable of finding them out, so they should solve the problem for you. In addition it's entirely possible scum already knows I'm paranoid (BC being scum?) so in that case they wouldn't shoot me. You can push this awful lynch later, but now is not the time. I know it's very difficult to tell between bad play and scummy play, but honestly this should be a fairly easy case of it, since it's simply a mistake, and who is more impulsive and prone to mistakes? Scum or town? | ||
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On May 07 2013 00:46 WaveofShadow wrote: What if I told you I don't care what you have to say at this point? Then you're an idiot. If you're town, have read all my contributions, and still think I'm scum I don't think you can be helped. | ||
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Do you think that makes me scum? | ||
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On May 07 2013 02:02 yamato77 wrote: I expect you to not be the second worst cop I've ever seen, yes. I admit, not realizing I could be insane is pretty bad, but again, that's not alignment indicative. Explain to me how that makes me mafia rather than town. But the other thing isn't that bad at all, except for I overestimated the ability of a few people, most notably Ace, who was third party (I was pretty sure he wasn't scum), of arguing based on cop sanities. 1. I think BC is scum 2. I get guilty on BC 3. I claim and try to get BC lynched. the key point being 1. I actually think BC is scum, and I did not expect a bunch of people to step up for him and other cops to claim to make it a bit of a mess. I expected town to quietly lynch him, thus accelerating the process of me figuring out my alignment. I would've been okay pushing BC's lynch WITHOUT any kind of a check. So, since the BC thing was alright, and hell, in your own words: On May 01 2013 14:58 yamato77 wrote: So back to Palmar/BC; I find it more likely that Palmar is town than BC. Palmar, while relatively inactive, has attempted at times to push his own agenda in lynching VE, good or bad. He's also had a believable narrative in checking/claiming a red check on BC. Is he capable of this sort of play as mafia? It's possible, but I feel it likely that Palmar is actually telling the truth that he simply cba to do anything. It's an illness that often strikes Palmar. So given that you actually understand this narrative, what has changed your mind must be the fact that I did not send in a check last night. Now, explain how that, specifically, makes me mafia. If you cannot, you're full of shit. | ||
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On May 07 2013 02:24 yamato77 wrote: If I take away BC as a possible scum candidate, I have to reassess why I think you could be town, because the logic that says you're town previously included BC actually being mafia. No longer do I have faith in you being town. Your cop claim is alignment null AT BEST, and so is the rest of your play. At worst, it's pretty fucking scummy. You checked OO, supposedly to confirm your own sanity, and then VE, I suppose in the same pursuit? It seems convenient that you checked VE the night he gets shot by mafia. But as I said before, you've constructed a possible narrative to you not being mafia; you're just bad at cop. Why should I believe you? I have no reason to trust the word of Palmar this game. My cop claim is null, that is exactly what it is. You should go back and read some of my scum games, just for enlightenment. I'm sure you'll find them interesting. I checked VE because why not. Also I was pretty sure he'd flip if he was town so might as well. You should believe me because of everything else, because there is absolutely nothing objectively scummy about my play, it's a perfect match to what it actually is, lazy Palmar. Yes, lazy Palmar is less readable than super-active mega-town Palmar, but that doesn't make me scum. When I'm scum I do scummy things, like not re-reading the thread and not offering any explanations to whatever I do. I think I've been fairly detailed on what little I have done this game. | ||
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On May 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia. "I don't think you've done anything like mafia would do, or acted like mafia, but you're probably mafia anyway" I don't even know how to argue with this. | ||
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On May 07 2013 04:22 yamato77 wrote: No, it means you haven't given me any reason to think you're town, and lategame, that's a fucking gigantic problem. In the games I have played with you when you lived past night 1, I could easily read you as town. Most day 1's I can read you as town. I haven't had a solid town read on you the entire game. That's a problem, Palmar. It's enough for me to want to hang you this late in the game. So by extension you must think at least 10+ players or however many we have left you with a solid town read, since your number one scumspicion is someone who is "not solid town". Please list 10 town reads you think are solid with reasoning. This'll also make it harder for you to backtrack when I flip | ||
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On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Stutters I think is town because of a meta read. Until he gives me reason to think he's scum, I will treat him as town because he's never played scum. There's little reason for me to believe that anything he's done is outside of what I expect from town Stutters, which admittedly isn't much to begin with. I would expect scum Stutters to be easy to pick out, because it owuld be his first game and he'd likely be horrible. Stutters is town because I say so, I think I would think he's scum maybe if he's scum so probably town idk? On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: WoS would also be first time scum, and he's too active for that. He's too involved. He's claimed miller within a reasonable context. Not what I'd expect from first time scum. Look guys, I actually have a legit reason for thinking someone is town, I mean, anything less vague than "he's too involved" is of course too much, but at least he claimed miller! On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Sharrant is highly involved in the game. and seems genuinely interested in figuring out the game. He's also the only person mafia Clarity ever talked about, which would be weird for his scum mate. I believe Sharrant would be another first-timer, so unless he's a prodigy, he's town. No need for interpreter here, this is actually correct, if lacking in detail. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: TRN is a mason, and I have little reason to be suspicious of him. When he masoned me, he seemed to want to figure me out, as he had apparently done with geript. Town. yeah, probably true. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Geript is town because I understand how he thinks. I was just in a Hydra with him not long ago. His perspective on the game is similar to what I saw there. He's a little tunnelish, and genuinely doesn't understand my play this game. I believe it. No, geript may be the scummiest person in the thread, he just skates by on the modconfirm thing. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Artanis is also likely town (unless my conspiracy theory comes true) because of how involved he's been in the game since yesterday. He's attempting to figure the game out in a rational way. I have little real reason to suspect him outside of interfering with me wanting to lynch you. Artanis is town because I say so, I'll just dash in some fancy words. "rational.... and involved" that'll do it. means I don't have to read or cite specific trains of thought. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: BC is town because either you or him is confirmed town, because of what I've talked about his game, and right now I'm working under that assumption. BC is maybe town because Palmar is maybe confirmed town eh... I mean.... yeah sure, he's maybe scum and Palmar is maybe scum? So right guys, I got this, Palmar is maybe scum and BC is maybe town. Yeah that's why BC is solid town read of mine. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: BM is town because he's still playing the game. In Boardwalk, his activity fell off a cliff and he stopped trying later in the game when he realized the scum team's chances were shot. In a similar situation this game. he's still trying. Not to mention, day 1 he tried to talk sense to me in my trollish state. Easily town. BM is town because he posts a lot... I guess. I also forgot that period where BM left the game. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Giygas is town through sheer effort. He's tryharding to figure out this game. I don't even have to explain this, it's so obvious. Shit, I have no reason here... hmm... tryhard? I'll just tell the guys they're stupid if they don't agree. I mean they'll totally agree the guy with the shortest filter is town on sheer effort? On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: Kush I might be wrong about, but he seems genuine when he just wants a lynch. His accusation of me felt like an accusation town Kush would believe in. He's also not hardbussing, as far as I can see, so he's not mafia. Real heuristics, applied realistically. I guess Kush is town because why not? On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: That leaves you and Hopeless, Palmar. Without your claim, there's nothing to point toward you being town, and the claim is ass. rofl, good job yamato ##Unvote ##Vote Yamato | ||
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I certainly agree with many of his reads, although he seems fairly flippy floppy on for example kush who is one of my strongest town reads. The BC point is the worst, he literally has no reason to think I'm scum above BC. Let's kill yamato guys. | ||
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On May 07 2013 14:07 yamato77 wrote: That was day 1 when I was trolling. Lol, excuse me for not having 1 scumread the whole game like you, I guess that's how the pros do it. Oh, and never push the lynch until Palmar does it for you, either. Good play. Try to antagonize only one person at a time. | ||
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if you're somehow town yamato, never, ever again call me scum without any kind of reason. | ||
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But idk, maybe yam is town, maybe he's scum. This game is way too hard. | ||
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I'm looking at giggles and maybe hopeless, stutters | ||
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On May 08 2013 00:58 kushm4sta wrote: we can lynch bc tomorrow when yamato flips town I'm not even sure about that. maybe stutters was bussing shiaopi (which is basically the reason I gave him a very tentative "maybe not scum" read during that night). Maybe geript is scum and BH is trolling us, maybe giggles is scum. And that's not even talking about hopeless who everyone seems to think is scum except me and BM | ||
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I don't know, I thought people calling other people scum with terrible reasoning was a scumtell, but the more you know | ||
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On May 07 2013 03:53 Palmar wrote: "I don't think you've done anything like mafia would do, or acted like mafia, but you're probably mafia anyway" I don't even know how to argue with this. On May 07 2013 04:49 yamato77 wrote: BC is town because either you or him is confirmed town, because of what I've talked about his game, and right now I'm working under that assumption. I get confused when people make reads based on absolutely fucking nothing. If you think I'm scum WoS, please present a argument I can respond to and explain why you're wrong. | ||
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On May 08 2013 07:48 GiygaS wrote: Please explain why you put him in L-1 then, knowing full well that he said he wanted to hammer himself. Kush is probably town, I wouldn't bother. | ||
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On May 08 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: palmar the thing is, your reason for thinking yamato is scum is even worse than his reason for thinking you were scum. He thinks you are scum therefore he must die? Are you kidding me? How fucking arrogant can you be bro? You do not look super town this game at all. I know I don't look like super town, are you not reading the game? That's why I'm specifically trying to explain to people why I am not scum, if I thought I looked super town, I would not bother with it, get that? And again, are you not reading the game, I have no problem with people calling me scum, it's because yamato conclusively, and even admitted himself, that he had no reason to call me scum, that's what bothers me. I want reasons, I asked him for reasons, I pulled his own quotes and presented them to him, and asked him what had changed. I'm not being arrogant, that's the last thing I can be this game, I'm being transparent and helpful. But I really don't understand why people keep trying to call me scum without providing any reasons for it. I did not think yamato was scum because he thought I was scum (although I do admit, I'm very prone to that when I'm town). I thought yamato was scum because he was trying to lynch me based on nothing. Did you read his quote about why BC is town? That's not even half-assed reasoning. On May 08 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: I know you think you are the mafia bomb because of "your play d1 and your ability to influence the game" (which you brag about every fucking game btw) but you have not been a positive force on this game at all. I think there is a very good chance you are scum. After Hopeless and BC you are the next scummiest. All you do this game is call people terrible... seriously that is unacceptable hypocritical flaming but you do it constantly. In the context I used it this game I was actually trying to explain that I'm not that good at later in the game or with roles, but if it makes you feel better you can take it whatever way you want. It's been repeatedly shown that I'm generally not that great in later days of mafia, because I start lynching people that disagree with me or call me scum. I don't like being called scum when I'm town. Not to mention this is false, again, you're not reading the game. I've called WoS awful or mafia, and I called BC's day 1 play awful, I don't think I've attacked anyone else in that way. I did call yamato's reasoning terrible, but that's not saying he's terrible, it's pointing out to him that he doesn't have a case. Please show me all this hypocritical flaming. On May 08 2013 21:58 kushm4sta wrote: I actually would lynch you purely for punishment at this point. Town can take more potentnial mislynches if necessary. we are winning. Maybe kill 1 scum first then kill palmar for punishment? If we kill one scum first I probably don't care, so sure. | ||
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On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: This one is a point FOR town Palmar becuase I can't see them making the decision to bus Clarity this early when he was actually active, unless they realized his play was so shitty he'd be going down immediately. Yep, it's a point for town me because you know.. I'm town. Generally townies do townie things. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Here his agreement with Rayn puts VE in the position he is in if scum. The bus is more likely to have begun here, but can't be sure of stuff yet. VE was looking scummy earlier on in the game to be fair to Palmar,but he was not a likely lynch that day. The push onto VE overall though looks really bad since trying to push a 3rd possibly-town wagon when two scum are up for lynch...well...... Yeah, I thought VE was scum, and you agree he looked bad early. I still thought he was scum by this day, and by extension I gave shiaopi a probably town read, not a big deal. I can't be right on everything, and very often I miss under-the-radar scum. I like lynching VE, and I was willing to throw my weight behind a clarity lynch too. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: This looks like the post where scum Palmar realizes his push is a bad idea. No, this is the post where I agree that Clarity lynch is a good one and since I have a very strong case on him (the same reason I said "sup scum" to him on day 1, just articulated). Think about it for a little while, if I'm scum palmar wouldn't I try to extract every little ounce of town-cred out of the clarity lynch? why would I bother with saying I still wanted to lynch VE? The truth is I thought VE was scum. I still think he was playing strange, but obviously his relative lack of leadership may have been, just like mine, based on his role. Do you think there is a hole in my reasoning for killing Clarity? Do you think this is fabricated evidence? Was it not new to the thread at the time I wrote it? Especially the part where I analyse his follow-up. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: On the topic of the TRN Mason QT. Says he forgot about it his story is somewhat corroborated by TRN...though I can't understand why you wouldn't interact at all with your masoner unless you worried about them picking up a read on you. The fact that Palmar uses the fact that TRN masoned him as evidence as to his towniness reads to me that he has no idea about TRN's play or the fact that he is new at the game (I picked him as town ages ago, I'm fairly sure others have as well) and so is worried about the potential for TRN outing him as scum when in fact TRN's chances of doing so as being new to Palmar's play are probably low. I'm not great at playing scum, one of my biggest strengths however is PM games. I've found most of my success where I can get intimate (hehe) with people in private. You're just going to have to take my word for this, but I honestly forgot about the mason thing. I was not very active on day 2, and TRN refused to explain why he picked me to be in the Mason QT, so I lost interest, leading to me forgetting it. I don't see how you can draw any alignment conclusive the fact I didn't really talk to TRN. Maybe we just don't work well together. He wanted to talk about topics I wasn't interested in at the time etc. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: SO here he mentions I was the one TRN brought up that he didn't feel like looking into. Ok, I get that, but just the day before he says this: Wouldn't this make me a suspect of his and someone he's likely to have read? Especially since I'm pretty sure I claimed miller before TRN's mason time ended and was super high on EVERYONE's suspicion list. as far as I understood the mason topic lasted 72 hours, and I think those were up. And yeah, you were at the time firmly in my scum/null group, but I wasn't really pursuing it at the time. I think I was pretty involved during the night you claimed miller, and if I recall correctly, I realized that your claim made sense and looked genuine. Now put yourself in scum-palmar's shoes. You basically have what equals to a guilty cop-check on your head and I could tunnel that until you die, hell I even gave you some shit for not being super-townie since you were a self-aware miller (though I do very much agree with your play of not claiming it at the start). But no, because I'm not actually scum, I just stepped back, looked at how you claimed and how you reacted to the pressure and decided you were town. I actually did the same thing yesterday, but yamato self-hammered in rage after quoting a post of mine where I was basically considering waffling on his lynch. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Palmar then begins to buddy up to his previous scumread in VE to try and get BC lynched. Presumably this is due to his N1 and N2 checks, which makes sense and is a point for Palmar having told the truth. (The long con is definitely possible, but is that likely to Palmar's scumplay? I don't know him that well.) Thanks for making my case for me, the reason my narrative makes sense is that it is 100% true. I told the same thing to yamato. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: I called Palmar out for this earlier and he never responded; which important townies had Palmar's back at this point? I didn't count many despite his crusade for action against 'the cobbler.' mostly reyn, who was playing a pretty damn baller town game. at the time, if I recall correctly, thread sentiment was pretty favorable to me. I cba going back and finding out exactly who I had in mind. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: I REALLY didn't like this post at the time. We know there's 3rd party and 3 scum left here so we certainly did not have 'plenty of townies.' Everything he says about being a cop though isn't provable one way or the other as of yet at this point; the rb and his checks check out. I don't know I don't like the idea that he making mislynches feel better than they actually would have been but it's such a scummy thing to post knowing the math that I don't see scum doing it. Again, thanks for making my case for me. Most importantly here is my belief that CC was town, I was almost certain that his claim was true, and I think I never had any scumvibes in the game for him, so to me I was pretty sure we'd either get a scumlynch or a lurkerlynch->scumlynch (which is what happened). Remember, scumpalmar would've KNOWN that shiaopi was scum, so your theory of multiple mislynches makes no sense if I'm scum. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Well knowing what we know now.... I don't if anything can be said about this since everyone more or less agreed Sylencia didn't look great, but to say Shiao looked TOWNY is a GROSS overstatement. I also remember asking at some point whoever found Shiao towny, WHY did they think so and no one ever answered. Hmm. The point here is, scumpalmar knows that sylencia flips green, and town immediately lynches shiaopi. Yes, I was wrong on shiaopi, but if I was scum, why would I bother calling someone from the scumteam who was about to be confirmed scum because of the lynch I was pushing (sylencia) town? It makes absolutely no sense. On May 01 2013 03:57 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright sadly I don't have much to conclude about this case. Imo the scum points outweigh the town points just based on his filter and he's had a cba attitude for much of the game. We can't even discern his alignment based on his checks either because he didn't follow the plan which looks scummy as well. If he is telling thr truth he must be either paranoid or insane (which would make him exactly the same as CC? Same role AND same alignment? Unlikely imo....) and if he's paranoid he's more or less useless, no? I dunno guys, help me out. I'm leaning scum overall but we have nother night of NKs ahead of us before we must act. The reason you can't conclude anything is that I'm not scum. I haven't done anything objectively scummy, I've made a few bad calls (VE scum, Shiaopi maybe town, yamato OMGUS, Role botch) and a few okay ones (rayn town, grush town, clarity scum etc). You want to lynch me because you think I'm a dick, which towards you I guess I somewhat have been. I just got annoyed when you wrote a case where you in multiple cases concluded that my story makes sense, or that what I did makes sense from a town standpoint and yet you come away thinking I'm scum. People have been doing this throughout this entire game. BC calling to vig me for no reason, yamato calling me scum because why not, sharrant trying to lynch me for botching my role (non-alignment indicative), Ace wanting to lynch me for claiming cop and you making a case that is probably a better case for town-palmar than scum-palmar and yet saying I'm scum for god-knows what reason. It's annoying and frustrating to repeatedly have to swat down cases that seem to be written backwards (palmar is scum and I must find the reason why), because they're so lacking in evidence. So please, explain to me why you still think I'm scum. | ||
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On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Aw, here you go and actually put effort into something...I was so set to troll the rest of the night too. I don't understand how you can exude such an attitude of complete confidence despite your performance this game; it's that arrogance that kush outlined that absolutely infuriates me, including your propensity to compltely ignore or shrug off those points from people you deem 'terrible' and either not worth your time or not worth listening to. (This may just be referring to me in this case, but it's an attitude I see from a few players on mafia, BC included. Ace appears to be an exception.) I don't know where you get the complete confidence thing from, I'm pretty unsure how to proceed in this game, and I thought my recent waffling on yamato and posts like "this game is too hard" were pretty indicative of that. And I don't ignore people based on my perception of them, I ignore people that say things I don't think make sense. I actually think I'm one of the better long-term players when it comes to appreciating newer players, because I play quite actively and thus don't lose touch with the up and coming community. reyn hasn't played for that long (on my timescale) and I sheeped him all game long, because I agreed with things he said. On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote: Despite the fact that you see me and my cases as terrible, I've been right about quite a few things this game (though nobody appears to acknowledge this---yet you're constantly bringing up things YOU were right about), and I also know who the JK is, and have for a little while now. There are many things that I have contributed that simply get bypassed because my way of figuring out the game doesn't fit within the brackets of what you would determine to be 'good play' yet apparently achieves the same result (or in this case, BETTER results if people ever listened to me). Do you really need endless appreciation from others? Do you want me to dive into your filter and find where you've been right? I don't think you're a terrible player, hell, the fact that you're alive with a guilty check means you cannot by definition be awful, no matter your alignment. It's not my job to push your ideas, it's your job. If you don't like that your posts get ignored, I'd suggest getting better at pushing your ideas, and if you're trying to convince me, specifically, a good start would be to stop yelling for my lynch. Do you want a pat on the back? Just do it yourself. Explain to us all why you're awesome and must be listened to. On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I was unsure about your case originally when I wrote it, but if you'd read it wasn't necessarily a case to get you lynched, it was merely a summation of my thoughts on you, some points and counterpoints, and then I literally said "I dunno guys, help me out." AND NOBODY DID. Town is a team, and no one can be sure of their own cases/reads all of the time, not even you, yet many people treat their reads as G-d's word to fucking Moses. It was an opening for you or anyone else to say: "your case is shit and here's why." "Or I agree for such and such reasons" But nobody did so I was left with my own thoughts echoing in my head. Town is a team, but you also have to learn to recognize how to work with a team. Just to take a silly little example, giggles corrected someone's spelling of his name, and then said he was tired of "giggles". This obviously immediately caused everyone to call him giggles all the time, because that's how the culture works. I'm not sure whether or not giggles understood this, but he should have expected it. If you're not being listened to, it's your own fault. Everyone can become the center of attention, but you have to learn how to manipulate a thread into focusing on the things that you want it to be focused on, to do this you have to understand the culture in the thread, embrace it and use it to your advantage. I was extensively listened to even in my first games of mafia because I realized this from the get-go. We can have a discussion about this after the game, as it's one of the things I think I do well in mafia, ie: getting the thread to talk about what I want. People are always biased to their own thoughts. Don't be mad about it, use it. On May 09 2013 01:25 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm going to wipe all bias I have clean when I look into you over the next little bit, just as I did the first time. If you ignore it then despite what I find I will be pushing for your lynch tomorrow as I will therefore not be seeing you as an asset to town alive, only through the information gleaned by your death. Whether or not people listen to me on that will not matter to me. Whether or not you feel threatened by this does not matter to me. If you, or other people respond, perhaps we can actually begin to solve this game properly. You only lynch me if you think I'm scum. If you can come up with a legitimate reason why, I guess I'll be fine with you attacking me. But please, whenever you read things, make sure you read them both from the context of "scum-palmar" and "town-palmar". Because I found your earlier case in some places lacking in looking at the costs and benefits of my actions based on both town and scum. I'm not particularly threatened, I understand how this game works. But I'm not going to allow myself to be mislynched without explanation. I don't compromise, I don't self-hammer. | ||
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I can tell you who I think should not be considered... if you think that helps? | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Nope. Do you agree that either BC or Palmar have to die today? This is not a good perspective to have, you're limiting your options. It's entirely possible BC is town, although I'm just not sure at the moment. For example, it's not implausible to think the remaining scum could be somewhere in stutters/giggles/hopeless. | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:03 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm not going to expand on this until Palmar answers me whether he still suspects BC. I don't want to influence his answer. You cannot influence my answer so don't worry about it. But it's gonna be a while as I'm going to read the entire filter of a few people, including BC | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If you're scum, showing my hand could lead to you giving the desired answer. Therefore I'd rather not comment on it at this point. That's entirely up to you, I just don't want the progress of discussion to be hindered waiting on what I have to say. Even if you think I'm scum, does it look like I've been saying things and giving opinions to please people this game? | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Personally I kind of want to lynch geript for no other reason than he has been a non-factor all game, and that is not how Geript plays, town OR scum. In The Game (scum) he was extremely active with the help of his scumteam: making plays, editing and checking his stuff. Him being afraid to post as scum with an inactive/bad scumteam would fit, though I would argue that in that case you/BC would have to be town for that to be true (unless you were seriously lonewolfing it). How much credence do people put into 'mod-confirmed town?' A town Geript that isn't helping is scarcely a Geript at all. I've said it multiple times that he may be the scummiest person in the thread, he's simply riding his confirm, which basically makes this game stupid to deal with. I thought he should've been modkilled at the time, but whatever. I would love to lynch him for being an asshole, but I'm not sure it's the best idea. | ||
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The problem I had with yamato's read was that it was based on absolutely nothing, whereas your case is based on multiple speculations that are often lacking or inconclusive. I think I summarized it well with this question: On May 07 2013 02:08 Palmar wrote: So given that you actually understand this narrative, what has changed your mind must be the fact that I did not send in a check last night. Now, explain how that, specifically, makes me mafia. If you cannot, you're full of shit. to which he responded: On May 07 2013 03:05 yamato77 wrote: I highly doubt that you're town. Just because you're not objectively scummy doesn't mean you aren't mafia. And that just set me off. Also, yamato was doing a better job of controlling the thread than you. | ||
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Town: Palmar Kush (see my analysis with cobbler) WoS (he is putting in a lot of effort and everything he's done makes sense. yamato agreed with me on this too) Bill Murray (But I'm becoming less sure of this) Leaning Town: Artanis TRN Lurkers/Scum/Must-read-again/null giggles bc geript hopeless stutters This last group of people is the one I think my focus needs to be on today. | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I can't tell if you're playing dumb or if you still don't know. Don't understand this post, why am I dumb? | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I highly doubt that scum shot Rayn over BC/Palmar just to frame you if neither are scum. No one pushed you strongly enough for that by a long stretch. It's completely inplausible imo. If you are indeed town, then you should be just as interested in what other thoughts Rayn had. Rayn was absolutely shot because he was the smartest dude in the game. | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:25 WaveofShadow wrote: The fact that you didn't check anyone the night before is either because once again, lazy Palmar (find this SO hard to believe there are so many instances of this since you're supposed to be a good player) or as mafia you were afraid to check players who aren't basically confirmed one way or the other for fear you might be caught out somehow or remove suspicion on possible lynchbait. if I didn't send in a check it's irrelevant if I'm scum or town, in both cases it's a mistake. I'm not more likely to make mistakes as scum than town (or the other way around). Thus you cannot draw a conclusion from it. And being good at one aspect of mafia doesn't mean you're good at all aspects of mafia. I don't like roles, I don't care much about roles and I've never been great at setup speculation or role abuse. Just to point to a recent evidence, my complete lack of interest during the picking phase in PYP. I simply didn't think all the options on my sanity through, because I dedicate almost no time to using my role. | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/postmessage.php?quote=1404&topic_id=404332 | ||
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On May 09 2013 04:39 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't really see how that makes him the smartest. Also yeah, DID you figure it out yet? no clue | ||
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I got jailed by town (pretty much confirmed by sharrant) So BC got jailed by scum (or not jailed and they withheld the block). To be honest, I actually think it's more likely they did block him, from that little context alone, giving BC some town cred. | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:34 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Please point to me where I promised you anything. I'm convinced now because A) Sharrant's flip confirmed what we already suspected and B) Palmar conveniently got paranoid, thus any potential extra importance he could have if he were town is gone. That and Palmar's long post was actually awful. No scumhunting, lots of defending and tutoring. Rubbed me the wrong way entirely. Do you want to lynch me based on two factors that are completely out of my control? One, or all of these thought processes must be true, based on your post here: Sharrant jailed Palmar -> Therefore Palmar must be scum Palmar rolled paranoid cop -> Therefore Palmar must be scum Palmar wrote a post defending himself -> Therefore Palmar must be scum I don't know what in particular I need to say to you to explain why you're wrong, but you please provide something for me to respond to if you want to call me scum. | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You're presuming I wasn't suspicious of Palmar yet. Ever since I realized Sharrant was the JK I've kept my eye on Palmar. I just wanted to see if he was going to claim Paranoid or Insane, and make sure he did so before I showed my intents so that he couldn't choose the story that would happen to fit the best to argue himself out of a lynch. That large post was a nail in the coffin because he's not actually looking for scum. He's been doing what he's been doing all game ever since he figured the troll act wouldn't work anymore; try to stay alive in whichever way possible. Is staying alive only the objective of mafia? | ||
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On May 09 2013 05:50 Artanis[Xp] wrote: There was an hour gap between claiming you got roleblocked and the first mention that you might've been shot. Plenty of time to think about it, and that you bring it up actually means yoou I used this hour because I didn't get notified of a shot, but I strongly believed I might have been shot, so I asked the host to explain whether or not I would be notified if I was hit. That explains the hour wait. | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:04 TheRavensName wrote: Yes. Your the only one who milkde the protection from gunshot. So either someone else was shot and didn't want to say anything, like ace, or bc was shot and you decided to milk it for the cred. Its not out of the realm of possibility. Assume for a second, just to entertain the notion, that I'm town Palmar. I can give you the insight that at the time I thought I was in pretty good standing with town, in no danger of being lynched. Knowing that I got protected and a KP was missing, do you think town-Palmar (knowing my history of being shot n1) would not assume that I got shot during the night? Sure, scum-Palmar could do what I did, but so could town-Palmar, and in fact it's more likely town Palmar did. | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote: The main objective of town is to find scum, not to stay alive. The main objective of scum is to stay alive. Part of lynching scum is to not get lynched as town right? That removes one potential candidate from the pool. Would you say I have not scumhunted this game? I consider both parts equal. If every town player makes sure he doesn't get lynched then the game is quite easy, right? | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You're scum because you're more interested in your own survival than in actually finding scum. The best way to get my vote off of you is to find a better target. You've spent enough time defending yourself, I'd rather you spent that time reading filters of people you find suspicious. Here's one thing, I'm obsessed with reads I don't understand. I can move on, and I was starting to do so, beginning with my list of 5 people I considered needed to be looked at. Then you come in and accuse me of being scum without providing anything to back it up other than my role. You literally want to lynch me based on my role. I cannot defend that. But I want to make absolutely 100% certain that if I get lynched there will remain no legitimate reason for it, it will be simply be because people decided to do it and fuck logic. | ||
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Confession of what? | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:56 WaveofShadow wrote: There's a difference between how you act when trying to survive and how I acted when I felt I was going down. There is a clear point here and Artanis is right, but I just don't like how he's going about it. I (and others) have pointed out in the past how you have basically done anything and everything to assume your own survival from one day to the next and you've always managed to squeeze out of it. You could say the same thing might have been true for yamato at times but yamato buckled down and did his fucking damndest to give us his all. You have done no such thing aside from short bursts of activity here and there which have amounted to nothing since you have been a suspect. You and I aren't the same person, we don't respond in the same way to adversity. I have done everything to make sure I don't get lynched because well, it's a mislynch to lynch me. I have given you detailed reasoning of my reads of several players in this game. And your point that my activity has amounted to nothing since I've been a suspect, yet you attack me for trying to explain why I shouldn't be a suspect? I don't understand what you want me to do. It's very, very distracting to be repeatedly called scum with no reasoning behind it. I don't even understand the logic here, are you saying that the valiant town Palmar would shut up and get lynched whereas scum Palmar would put effort into defending himself? Hell, I suppose I should be proud people think I'm this good at scum. | ||
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On May 09 2013 06:58 WaveofShadow wrote: A confession which would make some sense based on your perception of the cases I and yamato and now Artanis have brought to get you lynched. "I don't deserve to get caught as scum if the town can't properly catch me and a lie/slip/outlogic me/whatever." This seems extremely egotistical and yet it would seem to fit with your personality as I have come to see it. It's like complaining about cheese in BW. It's all part of the game. If you're caught, you're caught bro. Again, you only read my stuff as if I'm scum. Town-Palmar has the same pride as scum-Palmar. I want to make absolutely 100% dead fucking sure that if I get lynched, there will be no argument that it was a good lynch anyway, that I was playing scummy, any kind of justification. If I die, I want to demonstrate as visibly as possible that it's a terrible lynch and there will be no excuses other than... well wanting to lynch me for lulz, or maybe for fear, or something. I want no one to be able to claim he voted for me with a reason. | ||
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I'm helping everyone by establishing my innocence. I hate being called scum with no reasoning and it massively (see: yamato) distracts my scumhunting. | ||
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geript stutters hopeless giggles | ||
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I think most of the scum would've stayed away today/tonight. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote: If you think what you're doing now will help establish your innocence better than scumhunting I think you're a lot worse at this game then you think. I have admitted it a million times, it basically disrupts me extremely hard when people call me scum for no reason. This is not the first game I say this. Take your vote off me, tell me I'm a unique little flower (and town), work with me, criticize my list from the point of view that I'm town. That's how you can get me scumhunting. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Lynching into those four is going to absolutely suck. Even IF Palmar is scum it's still going to suck. Just assume I'm town please, so we can start doing something. You can backtrack and autolynch me later in the day or something. I don't understand your post that it sucks. Do you think it's unlikely there is scum to be found in that list? Would you change the list in any way? | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: You called my plan extremely dumb so no can do, I'm going to tunnel you the rest of the game now because my feelings are hurt Ok assume for a second I actually AM paranoid cop. Is there then no option in your plan other than to autolynch a townie because that's the brilliance of your plan? | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Well that saves us a mislynch I guess? Kinda annoying but mafia did lose tube so I can't be too broken up in the interest of fairness. If we somehow figure out that Palmar is no longer on the block for today I'd really like to look into Geript as though he were not 'modconfirmed.' Or Hopeless. I don't really think Jiggles/BM is scum. Kush I've honestly got no clue. On May 04 2013 07:04 Palmar wrote: Few things about kush. I haven't played with him enough to know if he's an asshole as any alignment, but generally the aggressive moves (like demanding those essays) are more townielike. He also made a few posts that just don't add perfectly up if he's scum. The first one being the misconception about the scum night kill, because it's hard to feign the idea so casually: Also, this read of his on VE: Means he's thinking about the game from a townie perspective. No one else (I can remember) pointed out this idea that VE was town based on this. The last point has an obvious bias, knowing I am town: Kush basically understands that this post cannot be made by a scum palmar as it's too legit and too in line with what I had been saying all day. Maybe he's a scummer giving me a warm fuzzy feeling about the posts, but it's just too many little things that kush has done throughout the game for me to call him scum. On May 04 2013 07:07 Palmar wrote: throwing this post in on top of what I already wrote: Kush is just too involved, genuine and carefree for me to think he's scum. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote: Actually I shouldn't put Jigglypuff in the same category as BM. I know BM isn't scum. Why do you know BM isn't scum? I agree, I just want to know your thought process. | ||
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Kush is probably town. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:26 WaveofShadow wrote: Would him being carefree include his dumb vote on yamato? actually that's worse upon re-reading. Still not sure he's shit-tier. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Why do you want to know the thought process of a strong town read on a strong town read that you agree with? Because why not? Maybe WoS knows something I don't know and it can help me understand the game. Maybe BM made a good post I've missed (I've basically disregarded BM since this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18481428) | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote: I think that this list is shit. Inactivity at this point is less likely to come from scum we're in the phase where inactivity kills. If they felt defeated already they could've just conceded after Ace was killed. Scum obviously feel confident that despite being shit on early, they have a good shot at winning, that means that scum are likely more active than inactive. If anything, Palmar's just throwing shit out to push another mislynch. He's bitching about people calling him scum is based on shit; that's the pot calling the kettle black. His whole case on yamato was shit. Here's his case on Oats: "He called me scum so Oats is totes scum." Here's Palmar's case on yamato: "Yamato called me scum so he's totes scum." Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. Besides, you had to 'check' to see if you taking a hit after being jailed would be told; you were only checking to see if you could safely claim the hit. It also explains why there was only 1 roleblock on N2 because you recognized Ace was scum and didn't want to die. Ace must've taken the hit on N1. You can't have it both buddy. Either I'm wrong or I'm scum. And because fuck you, I actually (as explained in the TRN QT) did not think Oats would flip scum. But yes, I called yamato scum because he called me scum without providing any reasoning. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote: Sorry guys. Catching up now. you dead son | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:32 WaveofShadow wrote: A few things that I can point out real quick. I know I was unsure of him for most of the game but in later days: As far as I can tell this is rarely something scum wants to question even if it makes them look towny. I remember his analysis of the Shiao wagon at the time of the VE derail looked good, and then this. Under normal circumstances I would think this to be alignment null but the act of pointing this out himself, knowing that if he was scum or wrong other people would shut him down (ie you) shows that he has complete confidence in this. I am unsure exactly why it modconfirms him town myself, same with the Geript thing (I have some idea about the gript thing but I think it's weak evidence) but nonetheless it is his actions. What about you, Palmar? I actually have a meta reason for being almost certain that BM is town. In PYP I made a case on him on day one as to being scum: On April 06 2013 20:55 Palmar wrote: @Mocsta: BM is scum. he adds nothing at all with his posts which (surprisingly enough) is actually very uncharacteristic for him if he's town. Just based on content alone he's really not doing much except giving out a townread on VE based on meta for whatever reason. In order to see whether there was a difference or not, I went to BC's arkham city, an old game but one with mechanics to deal with and BM playing town, and his posting there couldn't be more different from what he's doing here, or well... it could, but then it wouldn't be BM anymore. so I had BM's meta very freshly in my mind. So what I did was simply compare these two games and his involvement early on: Arkham City (Town BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=54241 Boardwalk-PYP (Scum BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=54241 and then this game. I actually thought it was BM who was the JK for a long time, based on this: On April 22 2013 13:40 Bill Murray wrote: and idc if they're unhappy. i have 1 vote on me. i didnt "pull any stunts". I was entering the thread in the random voting stage, and goofing off mildly, because I am happy that I rolled a good role for my win %. and the excitement about roles reminded me of his AC play (not being able to shut up about roles) On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote: when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right? i guess not all 16 have to be in the game... anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie In addition, just look at how terrible his PYP filter is, it's basically aggressive oneliners, stark contrast with his attempts at figuring things out day 1 here. | ||
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On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote: Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. why you heff 2 be mad? it's only game? | ||
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the last three games where I got lynched as scum, so you can compare my efforts/defense: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=341558&user=87086 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=349678&user=87086 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=369250&user=87086 | ||
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I need a more comprehensive read for a conclusion | ||
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http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18366667 Who do you think was the first scum on shiaopi's wagon back on day 1? On April 27 2013 05:00 Blazinghand wrote: ~~~ Vote Count ~~~ VisceraEyes (2): Palmar, Kushm4sta (1) Bill Murray GiygaS (1): grush57, Palmar (1): ShiaoPi (7): Clarity_nl (4): Sharrant, Ace, Stutters695 (0): Ace (0): yamato77 (1): BloodyCobbler Sharrant (1): Hopeless1nder Remember, this Day ends when a majority is reached. As soon as a majority is reached, please stop posting until the Night Post has been posted. Only votes in the voting thread will be counted! The voting thread can be found here: (link) With 23 alive it takes 12 votes to lynch. The next vote up is hopeless on shiaopi. Most of the people already on shia at this time are townies. I wonder when bussing started. | ||
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On May 02 2013 13:06 Hopeless1der wrote: WaveofShadow Overall have him as town. A bit in this quote i like + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 08:40 WaveofShadow wrote: lol this is a terrible reason for not thinking I'm scum but whatever. CC because of his scumread on Geript; especially since it was before the 'mod-confirmed' horseshit, I want to see if he changes his mind. Kush for similar reasons since he threw a vote on geript as well right before the 'confirmation' and right after agreed that this confirms geript as town without removing his vote. Want to gain some insight into his thoughts processes as well regarding his townreads. Reading carefully and noting something that seems wrong/stupid. Town points from me. Looks like he was suspicious of buddying to me. I dont think mafia would target amongst themselves like WoS picked ShiaoPi out at the end of this quote: + Show Spoiler + On April 23 2013 09:21 WaveofShadow wrote: I didn't say VE is scum. I said an inactive VE is often scum. but I was thankful that he has started posting more because that probably means he's NOT scum and fits with my townread. Don't put words in my mouth, Vivax. Objective was the wrong word to use, yeah. What I meant was everything he says about VE makes sense considering his actions in the games I've played with him, but again there's something in VE's play that has been assuring me he's town...I'll call it a gutread. If Oats flipped town? I'd honestly be tempted to destroy a lot of the lurk going on but they're probably getting replaced and I also know that's not great right now. As far as 'active' posters go ShiaoPi's attack on a town Sharrant doesn't look great to me. I don't have other strong scumreads atm and am going to have to go through and look if you want more than that. There is also his miller claim. I went through it already hereish and a bit more in that area of the thread. Ultimately I see it as a townie claiming. Bill Murray One of the first to call out Clarity. Kind of flipflops a bit but pulls through in the end. Also, Clarity with the rage In spite of this, I have BM as slightly scummy. He never actually follows through on voting Sharrant like he said he would just above that flip-flop post I linked above. (in thread) Going though his filter he jumps to kush-ve scumteam, with clarity as a LAL target and giggles for "parrotting", which is what he accused WoS and CC of in his flipflop dilemma. He goes on to associate case / omgus rayn with his kush read + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2013 06:45 Bill Murray wrote: yo anyone remember this post? all i said was "sheverus shnape" i didnt claim ANYTHING town vivax is wanting to question me scum rayn is wanting to push a mislynch on a vet FoS rayn attacks vivax when i dont need an out due to the wording, hell, the LETTERING being an obvious joke...... trying to make an associative tell and chainlynch on d1.... scummy scummy scum this interaction with another scumspect of mine, kush, makes him look awful im saying kush, rayn, and WoS are maf how many are left? brb once i find if WoS chimed in on this Later on, he drop this list where he no longer is so strongly against kush/rayn, but nevertheless... + Show Spoiler + On April 28 2013 07:17 Bill Murray wrote: Town regime: Bill Murray Ace Palmar BloodyCobbler Sharrant Probably town, not 100% in order: Grush57 Mr. Cheesecake TheRavensName Artanis[Xp] getmoript ObviousOne Grush57 Policy lynches: Yamato77 Hopeless1der Stutters695 ShiaoPi GiygaS Scum in here: raynpelikoneet Kushm4sta Sylencia VisceraEyes WaveofShadow I want to leave rayn for now. I also want to leave kush. I want to lynch VE, Sylencia, or WoS... preferably VE or WoS, as Sylencia is more of a gutread His reads are so volatile, and they also have 3 flipped townies (and what I believe to be another 2) in the "scum-in-here" section. Not liking that at all. He could very well just be wrong as all hell (so could I about kush/WoS), but I find that list of his really sketchy. Lastly, there's the issue of his activity, but who am I to talk, right? Stutters On the basis of primarily this exchange, I have stutters as town for the moment. Other than this, his filter is even shorter than mine and this was the most alignment indicative thing to me. kushm4sta + Show Spoiler + On May 01 2013 08:14 yamato77 wrote: Question: Has Kush suspected any of the mafia we have flipped this game? If yes, he is mafia. If no, we can ignore him. I cba to look at his filter. I checked, we can ignore him. Proof On April 30 2013 09:37 kushm4sta wrote: I will not vote for shiaopi or cc ever. I think they are both town. In all seriousness, I had kush as town from when he pulled this gem: and the resulting conclusions that he drew from it. He refused to acknowledge that his reasoning was not town-exclusive in a way that only kush can be oblivious. + Show Spoiler + On April 22 2013 01:29 Oatsmaster wrote: No, why would their role pm be different from town? Also sample role pms are in the OP IIRC Please dont let this become the flavor thing from that game. Game in question was Acme Mini Mafia where kush thought he was sandroba and could solve the game with flavor claims Also that thing yamato cited where kush busses all the time is something i believe, so thats another point for town-kush. Hats will be eaten in the event I am wrong on this one. (Not Red) "Modconfirmed" not scum. Possibly 3rd party, but I'm leaning town due to my read on Ace and the lack of NK's. I guess survivor is possible, but there's no reason to go after him, so leave him be imo. ObviousOne I fully believe this. I'm not reading OO's filter to discern his alignment at this point. If I'm still alive in the morning I'll probably give it a whirl to be on the safe side TheRavensName Most recent points against Palmar to me show well thought out reasoning as to why his mason role should be a pro-town entity and Palmar's actions are scummy. I feel scum would have verified their accusation, to prevent this kind of backtracking from being necessary. A decent amount of his thoughts on Sharrant and WoS were in line with rayn, but not in a buddying or forced way to me. Looks natural. This really looks like a 2nd Cedric questioning the FLAVOR of the flip post. Massive towncred to TRN. gratz. Ace - Serial Poisoner On the basis of night-action analysis I believe ace is the serial poisoner. It lines up with there being 2 NK's the 2nd night and no further NK's since Ace has been roleblocked from N2 onwards it would seem. Unless a townie was responsible for grush's death, I consider it a 3rd party shot and given that they are COMPULSIVE, Ace makes the most sense in this situation. I'm tired and want to go to sleep. GiygaS, Artanis, Sharrant, Palmar and BC to follow tomorrow. I am debating whether to do yamato or not due to omgus bias. Random Setup Notes: Remaining players 2 Mafia Probably 12 town Probably 1 third party (with KP) Worst Case Scenario's Lynch = 11 town - 3 "scum" Factional + 3P NK =9 - 3 Lynch = 8 - 3 Factional+3P = 6 - 3 Lynch = 5 - 3 NK's = 3 - 3 Theoretical 3 mislynches remain until the game is truly unwinnable for town. This assumes 3P starts firing his lazer. Due to 1NK N1, that almost guarantees there is no SK and suggests we have 4 mislynches minimum due to delayed SP hits. On May 02 2013 22:35 Hopeless1der wrote: GiygaS He's just so goddamn right it gives me chills. He waffles a bit between scum(a) and scum (b) when there was reasonable suspicion to be had in pursuing WoS. Instead we get Promises a re-read, does it, changes his outlook. I see him giving thoughts freely in his filter despite lowish activity. I hope he finds more time for the game but I'd say hes town. Artanis[Xp] Tube looking for an easy target. Looked sincere. His self-proclaimed apathy for replacing in and not catching up is a point for being Null. I dont see that as something to lie about or try to hide behind. Cutting that aspect of his game out and of course reading his epic case on BC, Artanis is strongly town to me by virtue of tube association. Sharrant Strongest points for townie - Destroyed mafia vigilante - Strong activity early on. Strongest points for mafia - He's disappeared from active discussion of late. I'm attributing this to cop claim stress. I feel like hes wrong on a massive portion of his filter, but not in a scummy way because his reasoning is laid out in most cases. Palmar vs BC Reasons for BC to be scum: See Artanis' case. | ||
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This dude actually has yet to vote scum... ever. But to be fair his lone ranger vote on me during the Shiaopi lynch would be strange if he's scum since he the next vote is shiaopi's self-hammer (i think it was). | ||
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It's still weird they use it on BC who was being called out by a few people and very inactive day 1, wonder if they were not worried at all about BC being shot by a vigilante. | ||
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On May 09 2013 21:03 Hopeless1der wrote: Palmar who's your top scumread this fine day? I don't know yet. | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:38 getmoript wrote: I think there's a reasonable value oddly enought to the Vivax conjecture. Anyone who posted early is more likely, as a general rule, to be town as scum are more likely consult a QT for direction and coordinate first. The problem with the heuristic is quite simply that it doesn't work for everyone equally; as a general rule, I think it's likely to be true, but without applying it to the specific people that posted early makes it more of a generally worthless statement. Sylencia -- As far as I know he is a noob, so I'm guessing more likely town then yamato--I am unaware of his scum tendencies, but don't think that posting early is indicative either way oats--AFAIK he's a vet, in the least he's towards the spammy aggressive side which makes posting early non-alignment indicative WoS--he always rolls scum so there's that I guess geript--Clearly an egotistical maniac and posted in The Game early as scum, so again non-alignment indicative Shaio--No clue as to experience, wanting to kill BM is more likely town Vivax--I'm not familiar enough with his meta, but the odd statement alone makes me think he's more likely town as I don't think he's crazy enough to spout that as scum So far, the list of people that I'm not interested in lynching today: Sylencia Vivax Shaio Palmar At the time I questioned this post because of the sylencia town read, based on absolutely nothing, here it is: On April 22 2013 08:43 Palmar wrote: Just for the record I would be pretty heavily leaning scum on geript if it wasn't for the QT thing. The most alarming thing is not actually the random town-read on me, but his explanation of sylencia's alignment: When this read was made Sylencia had posted the following: This "read" is based on absolutely nothing, and whether or not Sylencia is a noob has almost nothing to do with his read. I don't understand this read and why on earth it's part of his "analysis". I did not notice that he did exactly the same thing with shiaopi! On April 21 2013 17:37 ShiaoPi wrote: Let me kill Bill Murray first! On April 21 2013 18:27 ShiaoPi wrote: Is it safe to assume that we cant assume anything? So many people to kill so little time... To the point geript made sure he did not want to lynch shiaopi. | ||
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##Vote Geript | ||
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On May 10 2013 05:39 WaveofShadow wrote: I've never quite understood what you're supposed to get out of a mason role or being masoned...the ability to use it well seems beyond me. I'll be looking back at my log with him but I doubt I'll find anything useful. If I do find something worth noting it will definitely be in his filter. Masoning can be incredibly powerful if you have two people who mesh well together sharing their thoughts. This is why hydras are generally stronger townies than normal players. | ||
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I just read sharrant's last day. He was pretty adamant about not lynching BC so that makes me happier not to lynch bc. *shrug* | ||
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dunnoh geript is super scummy, those reads he threw out with absolutely no reasoning behind them back on day 1 still bother me, but he does have the modconfirm thing going. so.... whatever. I honestly don't know. I feel hopeless and giggles both have some good and bad things in their filters and who knows. Yamato seemed pretty super sure giggles was town... Then there's kush, maybe I don't know his style but I still don't think scum would play like that. And since I really think BC could still be scum (based on my points about our interaction during that night), I can't even eliminate him. But I guess I'll just sheep sharrant's read on BC and ignore him. so yeah, geript/hopeless/giggles would be my lynches for today. If we're lynching giggles or hopeless I need to spend the day tomorrow trying to figure out which wagon I'd rather chase. | ||
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On May 10 2013 13:12 WaveofShadow wrote: Fuck it, cba. Even I get it sometimes. ##Unvote: TheRavensName ##Vote: Palmar For reasons given earlier. If I get the chance mabes I'll look into TRN tomorrow. Care to point me to those reasons, your filter is ridiculously long and I couldn't find them in the last few pages. | ||
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Townies seem to think giggles is town, and giggles is more active than hopeless (although not by much) simple postcount reveals hopeless has about 30 posts 4-10 may. He has shown less interest than most people. So yeah, I don't have good reasons for this, I'm too confused by this game and I'm not kidding when I say it completely fucks me over when people call me scum for no reasons. So yes, I'm proposing we lynch hopeless over giggles because yamato (and wos) seem to think giggles is town, and hopeless has less sheer activity. It's not good reasoning, which is somewhat ironic I suppose. But I'm resigned to the fact that I just don't know this game. So I'm using a measurable metric that's freely available. Seeing as I have no clue anyway, if people still want to kill me, I suppose you guys can. Just remember that you did it with absolutely no good reasoning. There is not a single logical reason to think I'm scum. The only possible reasons I can think of is a) people wanting to be dicks, or b) people being afraid that somehow I'm amazing at playing scum. For once I'd love to play the role of a clueless but obvious town. Because I don't know the solution to this game I've spent a lot of time trying to explain why I should be obvious town, but I think reason b) is getting in the way of people. Hell, yamato said something in the lieu of "you haven't done anything scummy but you're still scum". Which is almost certainly some kind of fear. I'm very willing to be convinced for an alternative lynch (and I still would take a geript lynch), but until such time that I am, I'm parking my vote on hopeless, based on activity and interest. ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der | ||
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On May 10 2013 21:46 kushm4sta wrote: palmar stop playing the noob card. not a noob, just so happens that this is one of those games I don't know what's up. I'm not particularly bothered by that fact, I can't be awesome every game, I usually do much better than I have this game. I've had a decent run lately, mostly voting for or making cases against scum early in the game, last game I had a rough time in was nomination, that was another game where I didn't play well at all. It kinda bothers me that people think I'm scum when I don't have all the answers, but you know... whatever I guess I should just be proud that people actually think I could be this convincing as scum. Maybe this is the drawback of being a "big name". People forget that in mafia time is success. I didn't spend enough time this game early on to take advantage of my strengths (find townies/day 1/convincing/arguing), and now my weaknesses (roles/setup/mechanics/late-game/omgus) are shining through. I mean it's kinda sad, for example if geript is somehow town his personal attack on me just demonstrates his lack of tact, and even as scum it's a pretty harsh attack. And I guess I'll get a lot of shit for how "badly" I've played this game, when to be honest barring botching my role, I don't think I was terrible at all. I was just not great. | ||
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On May 10 2013 22:26 kushm4sta wrote: Also do you guys believe in balance? I do. And what that means is even though hosts like you to think scumteams are random, they aren't. A scumteam in a big game like this is never full of newbies. According to balance, either Palmar or BC must be scum. as for insight, I 100% randomize my scumteams. I don't think balance should ever be used. | ||
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On May 10 2013 21:46 Hopeless1der wrote: ...that's easily the scummiest thing you've done all game Palmar, and that's saying something. Activity, especially for me, is not alignment indicative. This is the lazy man's route but the whole time you're spouting off about how no one has a good reason to lynch you. Welll fuck it, you're voting to lynch a townie so that's reason enough. ##Unvote: GiygaS ##Vote: Palmar correction: This is the confused man's route. I was lazy early on, but seeing as I actually like winning I've been putting in effort now. But I read the game again and again, and I can't come up with a solid enough reason for someone to be scum. WoS is the best scum in a long while on TL if he's scum BC is scummy but has the roleblock geript is scummy but has the modconfirm Kush has done some strange things, but also some things like the VE role thing (which seemed well thought out). GiygaS seems scummy but yamato thought he was town... so idk? Artanis seems active and interested enough in the game, I guess Bill Murray, as I pointed out to WoS, is playing a vastly improved scumgame if he's scum TRN is mason /shrug You're the odd man out, and me, I guess. obviously seeing as I'm town, one or even two (if you're town) of those people are getting an unjustified town-read. I'm not sure which, but I think WoS and BM should be off the table. Maybe Artanis too. But then again, I have very little trust in my reads at this point. This is not a scummy vote (as you seem to think). This is a resigned vote, but I'm willing to be convinced, why don't you take that opportunity instead. ELI5 why you're not scum. write out the narrative of your game play like I've done. | ||
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On May 10 2013 23:22 kushm4sta wrote: im pretty sure BH fucks with the teams possible, and it's entirely possible BC is scum. I, again, point to what I conceived as a very different effort level and explanation level in our 1 on 1 session during that night. | ||
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On May 10 2013 23:38 WaveofShadow wrote: Those fucking spiderman pics kill me. Ill be at a computer in a little bit, might have active time today to go at TRN. At the very least Palmar ill show you why my vote's on you. thanks. | ||
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On May 10 2013 23:57 Hopeless1der wrote: Palmar, your reasoning for GiygaS seems to come down to "some other townie said so". Makes me sad bro. When I flip town calling giygas scum, what happens? I don't know. I honestly don't have this strong town read on GiygaS, but a lot of people I have a strong town read on have it. For a long while I was convinced BC/giggles were the remaining scum, but I really don't know. | ||
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On May 11 2013 00:11 WaveofShadow wrote: I gave you ample warning Palmar, not only here, but in a couple posts after this I believe. You once again ignored my analysis of you, therefore you are my target. Just because you believe people are voting you for no reason doesn't make it true. You had plenty of opportunity to address my questions towards you as well as my case and you chose to ignore them once again. I will be taking that as a scum response, assuming you have no good answers to the questions I have posited. I don't know what questions you're talking about. That's why I'm asking you to link them. I responded to both the post you quoted and your original case: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18530889 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18531504 I cannot respond to accusations I don't know what are.. you're making this really hard for me. Just tell me what you want me to respond to. | ||
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On May 11 2013 01:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Also I meant to comment on Palmar's thoughts that if I were scum I'd be the best on TL in a long time. Flattery will get you everywhere, sir, however I lament the future scumteam that has to put up with me on their side in my first game. EIther that or I just have to remember to act exactly how I did this game? trolololol It's not flattery since I don't think you're scum. to be honest, if I was scum I'd be amazed with myself right now. | ||
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On May 11 2013 01:32 kushm4sta wrote: i will look at giygas later today. i haven't really thought about him at all. check out getmoript too please. I know about the modconfirm thing, but he has some real bad stuff in his filter. | ||
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On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright some intersting minutiae: This looks strangely like a pattern. Same thing you did to Yamato but in fewer words. Apparently you really REALLY don't like being called scum. I am not sure whether or not this is alignment indicative, however; it would probably depend on whaether or not you've done this in other games and, as you've put it so often this game, cba. Also interesting that you chose to vote for yamato and Oats when they called you scum but not me. I've explained a few times throughout the game that I did not really think Oats would flip scum. I had this idea that maybe it'd be best if I was somewhat useless and would survive through to later days due to the fact that I'm a cop. Oats and Yamato didn't provide any reasoning at all. You provided a post that was actually in many cases correct, the problem was obviously that wherever you were correct you concluded me town, or inconclusive. I've said this repeatedly. I have no issues with being called scum when I can simply explain why I'm not. It's when people call me scum without any reasons that I get mad. On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Let's move on to Clarity. Now I once called this a point for a town Palmar but in the same post I say it could be a scummy thing to do if you recognized that Clarity's posting was shit and he was likely to be lynched. You ignored that part of it. Then there's this: Seems entirely possible that this is what was done. There are both town and scum points for this therefore I remove it as solely a town point for you. The reason didn't push clarity was that at the time I didn't want to be a big factor in town, I was trying to survive to get some checks. If I push and lynch clarity day 1 I would definitely get shot. Now I still think I did get shot and that sharrant saved me, but that's another story. The second part is I think misquoted, I think that was me saying it. But yeah, does it look to you like I bussed my entire team and took all the credit? The only dead scum I have any kind of credit for is clarity. I actually leaned town on shiaopi until the cop shenanigans and I pushed for lynching sylencia first. So if you think I'm scum taking credit, I'm sure not doing a good job at it. On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: Talking about ShiaoPi and VE: I don't think anyone expects you to be right on everything. Maybe, MAYBE I can accept that you were wrong about VE this far into the game, but any quick look into Shiao at all showed that he was NOT under the radar and looked objectively scummy all game. A pre-flip association based on your scumread of VE? That isn't good play no matter how you look at it. Combine this with the logic of bussing an inactive Clarity over an active Shiao, and your constant defending of Shiao when you defend NONE of your other townreads all game and this makes you look scummy. Very scummy. Well yeah, my metric for VE was simply that inactive = scum. But clearly he was being cool this game and not taking the lead, just like I was, ironically. The reason I thought Shiaopi was town was first off that I didn't think there were two scum-wagons going on. I thought the clarity one was the correct one, and the shiaopi one the shitty townie. I also sheeped reyn's read of shiaopi. The reason I only defended shiaopi is that he's my only town-read that has actually come under heavy fire this game. I don't think I constantly defended him though, I mentioned that I thought he was town like once in response to a reyn analysis post, and then I used the fact that I thought CC and shia were town to justify lynching sylencia. On May 09 2013 03:22 WaveofShadow wrote: [/quote]Regarding your defense of accusations of Clarity bus: You're right about this. I am not convinced however that the scum motivation isn't there. Clarity starts posting for hours before you return and call him scum. I could definitely see you, as the one mainly active (and arguably skilled) member of the scumteam coming back to the QT and going, WTF Clarity, you're dead and we're going to have to bus you for this. Your reasoning for killing him unfortunately very easily fits from both a town and scum perspective. Very easy to point out your scum-mates glaring mistakes. As for your extracting town-cred and blowing it on pushing VE, again that seems to me alignment-null on its own. Yes what are you saying could be true but it's also very easily true that you're trying to avoid completely flip-flopping on your read here to avoid looking scummier. Which to me since all you say is: "Still think VE is a good lynch" and then drop it amounts to the same thing as flip-flopping without a reason. More coming but I want to get some of this out just in case there is some chance in hell of me dying. Well I explained what's true, you can obviously through wifom interpret everything in the way you want, but I think it's pretty clear that this is not a made up reason, rather a figured out one. | ||
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On May 11 2013 03:54 Hopeless1der wrote: Not really when they have me to hide behind. That and the triple cop caper... You realize my role is worse than vanilla town | ||
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now don't be stupid artanis. ##Unvote ##Vote TheRavensName | ||
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On May 11 2013 13:51 GiygaS wrote: My problem with a Palmar lynch is that because I think Hopeless is mafia (which is very high likelihood in my eyes), it basically means that Palmar and BC are town because of that super back and forth voting spree he did in the last day. Plus, there's still the matter of him attacking Clarity early, but not even really trying to take credit for it. With my experience of playing with scum Palmar, what 3 years ago, is that he likes taking credit when he buses his fellow scum (he bused me hard and early on my first ever game, and used that cred to win the game for us). I actually didn't bus you hard, remember. I tried to deflect the lynch off of you on day 1 to a lurker. It almost got me killed too, but thankfully no one listened to VE and I argued with him for 4 days. It was Hiro Protagonist's bus that I took the credit for to endgame it. Good game that one! First game for me, you, VE, prplhz, mataza, hiro protagonist and a few others. I think stefftastiq maybe? | ||
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On May 12 2013 05:19 WaveofShadow wrote: Voting analysis is very interesting. I think tonight's NK is going to allow us a red lynch tomorrow. idk, people might tunnel me some more. for example scumript | ||
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On May 13 2013 08:49 getmoript wrote: I don't think now is the time to no lynch. It's 6-2 right now; assuming we no lynch, scum can just put us in the same situation tomorrow by no NK. @Palmar: did you send in a check? yes actually, checked you got guilty | ||
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On May 13 2013 15:29 WaveofShadow wrote: ##Vote: kushm4sta Ladies and gents, sheep me please. I'm feelin' good about this one. maybe giggles isn't scum? Wonder if I should just sheep yamato's read on him. I don't have time to figure out if BM is somehow scum, but I'm just going to assume he didn't magically improve from previous games, so WoS and BM are out of the question That leaves 5 people BC, giggles, Kush, TRN and geript. Maybe giggles isn't scum? hmpf... idk | ||
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Try to read the game ONLY from the yamato lynch to today, and pretend whatever happened before that did not happen. The days before that were basically stupid autolynches that left very little to be analysed, whereas yamato was the first real lynch we had. The game became more manageable a this point. I have a feeling this will help. | ||
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On May 14 2013 00:29 kushm4sta wrote: also this is mylo. if enough town go on my scum will quick hammer and win the game. So I would like you to unvote me for now. it's 6v2 buddy it isn't mylo. | ||
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so it's better to take a shot today to try to gain a mislynch, hell it's a 25% chance we hit scum using rng. | ||
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On May 15 2013 00:56 kushm4sta wrote: also @palmar, why would you have to be amazing at scum to be scum this game? you keep saying that but I dont see it. Because once you step back from the game and read what I've said it looks so incredibly townie. You will probably not see it right now, because you need an outside perspective to see it. We can discuss it after the game really, it's pointless now because you cannot know that I'm town and thus my explanations cannot be trusted. | ||
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On May 15 2013 00:59 TheRavensName wrote: How doesn't it? BM pushing for an unnecessary no lynch just gives mafia a free night kill without even an attemptto hit them first. Because of exactly that. It's a dumb idea regardless of your faction. | ||
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I've don't know geript that well, but I've spoken with him, and he came across as a guy who wants to improve, wants to learn and is enthusiastic about the game of mafia. Maybe I'm overestimating him, but I kind of read him as a promising new-ish guy who would attempt to win the game no matter the odds. I just see such a completely different attitude here. Compare the attitude of myself, WoS and Artanis in these last few days with geript's attitude. It's blatantly different. He's not even trying to win the game for town, which means, to me, that it's likely he isn't town. Did you know that geript has an 11 page filter. Page 10 starts on like may 3rd. He's posting like 1-2 times a day since the Ace lynch. He's not involved at all and seems to care very little what happens, yet he's emotional enough to viciously attack me for no good reason. dunnoh... | ||
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For example, TRN and BC both need serious looks, both have done things recently that I don't agree with. The only reason I'm not hard-tunneling BC (based on this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18505519) is this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18511661 TRN trying to push BM based on something that's non-alignment indicative is also somewhat scummy. But then again TRN pushing something that isn't the popular targets is less scummy. /shrug | ||
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WoS --------------------- <--- scumline Geript Giggles BC TRN we need to move two piece up above the scumline. | ||
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surprising kill ^^ | ||
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Hell, there were confirmed townies who sheeped MY reasons for lynching Clarity. | ||
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On May 16 2013 08:53 getmoript wrote: [/spoiler][spioler] This is the most I saw you write on him and comes after pushing VE for a while. I don't consider that amazing especially since those numerous 'confirmed townies' were 2 CC and Kush. Now who's lying since wasn't it Vivax and BM who brought Clarity to the forefront? Where did I say numerous? I said "There were confirmed townies who sheeped my reasons for lynching Clarity" Is this sentence false? I don't understand what you're getting at? | ||
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I just want us to be on the same page for the discussion. Are these three things all true? | ||
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On May 16 2013 09:05 WaveofShadow wrote: [/spoiler]Who were those confirmed townies? I believe I asked you something similar to this when I was making cases against you earlier on and I don't remember there being a conclusive answer. Kush and CC, I think, or maybe Bill Murray agreed with my reasons with his vote already there. Want me to go back and check? I'm pretty sure Kush said something like "Palmar convinced me to vote Clarity". | ||
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On May 16 2013 09:16 GiygaS wrote: I'll be in soon, but I'll offer this. It's very probable that either/both of geript/Palmar are scum. 50/50. The reason for this is that if Palmar is town, and a town voted for town, mafia would jump on that instantly and win the game. If geript is scum, voting for town, he's waiting on a townie to vote, for his scummate to then jump on and win. Let's be careful. Good point, it's not very responsible to stick down your vote as town. | ||
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On May 16 2013 09:11 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah, if that's ok. I'm still trying to determine what the best way of attacking the day is; I have some ideas but I'm going to need time. BC and Gigs, if you two are town you'd better get the fuck back here and start some goddamn discussion or something. If you're scum, don't bother. Here you go: On April 27 2013 20:05 Bill Murray wrote: Palmar gave my reasoning, when I first attacked the case: the timing of it is suspect. "oh i was reading 70 pages an hour before that" "oh i had time to filter dive" "oh i went back and read the 2 pages randomly" yeah, no. ## On April 28 2013 06:47 kushm4sta wrote: palmar convinced me to vote clarity! | ||
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On May 16 2013 09:28 getmoript wrote: No, I admitted that there's no good reason for BC, you or me to be alive. And yes, I hold a good player to a higher standard than myself. Can you explain why you've been so wrong Emperor Palmtree? Do you stand by your assessment that I have done no analysis or refused to give reasoning this game? Is this opinion of yours based on extensive read of my filter? | ||
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Vivax: Town (correct) On April 21 2013 19:36 Palmar wrote: I think the absurdity and yet strange value of this heuristic makes Vivax very likely to be town. To the point that almost nothing would make me want to lynch him today. Discuss. Oatsmaster: Scum (wrong) On April 21 2013 20:00 Palmar wrote: There are two ways of looking at your post. First option is that you're town and legitimately think I'm scum. The second is you're scum and know I'm town and thus want to discredit me. Since you didn't present any arguments to back up your conclusion, I am inclined to think you must be scum. So until you present a believable motivation for your accusations... ##vote Oatsmaster VE: Scum (Wrong) On April 23 2013 00:33 Palmar wrote: lazy ve is scum ve ##Vote VisceraEyes Geript: Scum (undecided) On April 22 2013 08:43 Palmar wrote: Just for the record I would be pretty heavily leaning scum on geript if it wasn't for the QT thing. The most alarming thing is not actually the random town-read on me, but his explanation of sylencia's alignment: When this read was made Sylencia had posted the following: This "read" is based on absolutely nothing, and whether or not Sylencia is a noob has almost nothing to do with his read. I don't understand this read and why on earth it's part of his "analysis". Clarity: Scum (Correct) On April 27 2013 18:58 Palmar wrote: Still think VE is the best lynch. But I do agree with a clarity lynch. I still don't understand how he entered the thread "catching up" and then had a fully fledged case within an hour. There was additionally no interest in pushing that lynch any harder. There is literally not a single "sharrant" in his filter after the case. It just doesn't feel natural. He didn't ask Sharrant anything to try to determine his alignment, no "hey sharrant, explain this" or "what do you think about this". Just a straight up case with no build-up and no follow-up. Which basically tells me his heart wasn't really in it. So with that I'm switching my vote to Clarity. Lessgo. Cheesecake and grush Both Town (Correct) On April 28 2013 05:54 Palmar wrote: btw cheesecake and grush confirmed town because they were excited enough to break game rules because they wanted the flip so badly. not many scumspects left. Artanis Town (Correct) On May 03 2013 23:36 Palmar wrote: By the way Artanis looks pretty town based on how he backtracked on the Ace thing. Later followed by: On May 04 2013 06:42 Palmar wrote: Let's talk about Artanis. I had him pretty strongly as town based on how he reacted to the Ace thing, it just seems to me scum would've more carefully chosen their position on the issue, and not be persuaded so easily to just go "oh well, I'm an idiot, let's do what I said we shouldn't do". here's the post I mentioned him being town: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18487429 here's the backtrack (within a page): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18482210 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18482256 What do you think about him? Stutters Leaning Town (Correct) On May 04 2013 06:37 Palmar wrote: Even then he very quickly took a stance on shiaopi and clarity, in both cases calling them scum. I'm not sure, it could've been been bus, but it's a pretty hard bus if it is. He even rejected both the VE and Palmar attempts on day 2 in favor of trying to lynch shiaopi This is not even the first time he mentions shiaopi. At least he was aware of cases being made against shiaopi, as demonstrated by this port here: While I'm not going to go as far as give a townread on him, I'd say he's unlikely to be scum. Kush: Town (Correct) On May 04 2013 07:04 Palmar wrote: Few things about kush. I haven't played with him enough to know if he's an asshole as any alignment, but generally the aggressive moves (like demanding those essays) are more townielike. He also made a few posts that just don't add perfectly up if he's scum. The first one being the misconception about the scum night kill, because it's hard to feign the idea so casually: Also, this read of his on VE: Means he's thinking about the game from a townie perspective. No one else (I can remember) pointed out this idea that VE was town based on this. The last point has an obvious bias, knowing I am town: Kush basically understands that this post cannot be made by a scum palmar as it's too legit and too in line with what I had been saying all day. Maybe he's a scummer giving me a warm fuzzy feeling about the posts, but it's just too many little things that kush has done throughout the game for me to call him scum. BC: Scum (Undecided) On May 06 2013 02:20 Palmar wrote: btw to everyone who got confused about what happened tonight between me and BC. I'm not as certain as I used to be that BC is scum... but look at what he did and how he did it last night. I'm somewhat conflicted but it certainly looks like he had some sort of questions regarding the targets he selected, only to immediately drop them when I explained my stance. By my count he has like 6 serious suspicions (including me) before we started our back and forth. It just doesn't look right. Also I feel like the effort put into that back-and-forth was somewhat uneven. (me doing a lot, BC doing little). But I need to think on it. Sharrant: Town (Correct) On May 06 2013 03:42 Palmar wrote: This basically confirms sharrant as town when I flip town. If scum realized that I could be insane they'd shoot me out of fear that I would stumble upon one of them. Scum sharrant would have shot me last night Yamato: Scum (Wrong) On May 07 2013 08:11 Palmar wrote: To drive the point home. Yamato has almost no reasoning for any of his reads, he shared in his reads posts basically no concrete evidence for any of his reads, even when there's plenty of it, he didn't try to demonstrate any of his reads, simply posted them and called people various buzzwords. "involved" or "trying hard" I certainly agree with many of his reads, although he seems fairly flippy floppy on for example kush who is one of my strongest town reads. The BC point is the worst, he literally has no reason to think I'm scum above BC. Let's kill yamato guys. Bill Murray: Town (Correct) (I had mentioned this earlier, but this is the best explanation of my read). On May 09 2013 07:41 Palmar wrote: I actually have a meta reason for being almost certain that BM is town. In PYP I made a case on him on day one as to being scum: so I had BM's meta very freshly in my mind. So what I did was simply compare these two games and his involvement early on: Arkham City (Town BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=54241 Boardwalk-PYP (Scum BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=54241 and then this game. I actually thought it was BM who was the JK for a long time, based on this: and the excitement about roles reminded me of his AC play (not being able to shut up about roles) In addition, just look at how terrible his PYP filter is, it's basically aggressive oneliners, stark contrast with his attempts at figuring things out day 1 here. TRN: Inconclusive (was town) On May 09 2013 08:25 Palmar wrote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=408855&user=208813 This dude actually has yet to vote scum... ever. But to be fair his lone ranger vote on me during the Shiaopi lynch would be strange if he's scum since he the next vote is shiaopi's self-hammer (i think it was). Hopeless: Scum (Incorrect) On May 10 2013 19:04 Palmar wrote: when in doubt I guess we go with the basics. Townies seem to think giggles is town, and giggles is more active than hopeless (although not by much) simple postcount reveals hopeless has about 30 posts 4-10 may. He has shown less interest than most people. So yeah, I don't have good reasons for this, I'm too confused by this game and I'm not kidding when I say it completely fucks me over when people call me scum for no reasons. So yes, I'm proposing we lynch hopeless over giggles because yamato (and wos) seem to think giggles is town, and hopeless has less sheer activity. It's not good reasoning, which is somewhat ironic I suppose. But I'm resigned to the fact that I just don't know this game. So I'm using a measurable metric that's freely available. Seeing as I have no clue anyway, if people still want to kill me, I suppose you guys can. Just remember that you did it with absolutely no good reasoning. There is not a single logical reason to think I'm scum. The only possible reasons I can think of is a) people wanting to be dicks, or b) people being afraid that somehow I'm amazing at playing scum. For once I'd love to play the role of a clueless but obvious town. Because I don't know the solution to this game I've spent a lot of time trying to explain why I should be obvious town, but I think reason b) is getting in the way of people. Hell, yamato said something in the lieu of "you haven't done anything scummy but you're still scum". Which is almost certainly some kind of fear. I'm very willing to be convinced for an alternative lynch (and I still would take a geript lynch), but until such time that I am, I'm parking my vote on hopeless, based on activity and interest. ##Unvote ##Vote Hopeless1der The people that are missing here mostly got autolynched or modkilled Ace (lynched by default. My read was leaning town) Rayn (I never explained but clearly my intense sheeping of him means he's my number 1 town read early) Tube (Modkilled, null read at the time since he hadn't posted) Giggles (Just never worked up the will to read/analyse him) WoS (same as giggles) I think that's it? | ||
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Not sure what this information brings me, but I'm almost certain it can be made sense of. | ||
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Do you think it's plausible one of BC/getmoript is town and this is a bus? I'm not certain at all, but I don't like this wagon and I'd much rather lynch into the people on it. | ||
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geript and you. | ||
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On May 17 2013 05:51 WaveofShadow wrote: Haha I'm talking about this to my wife right now and she's says you're scum, Palmar. GG. i don't know how to argue that. | ||
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On May 17 2013 06:17 WaveofShadow wrote: Fucking second game now it's coming down to me and I fucked it up the first time. I'm going to take a while for this. please do. My problem here is that I find it unlikely that geript and BC would push the easiest town target so blatantly. | ||
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knowing I'm town these are the options available from my point of view: GiygaS is scum -> WoS is scum (I find this very, very unlikely). GiygaS is town -> WoS is confirmed town (this looks more likely to me) GiygaS is scum -> Geript or BC is bussing (this is the most unlikely one I think) | ||
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On May 17 2013 06:27 BloodyC0bbler wrote: At this point as scum Id never push a target Palmar. I'd wait for a townie to drop a vote on a non scum then auto hammer with my partner. Or id run the clock until enough time passed that a no lynch happened and town loses. There is absolutely no reason for me as scum to do what I am doing. You could argue thats why I am doing it but we both know I've caught mafia here. Problem is your theory makes me scum too, which is basically impossible, as I've laid out multiple times in this game. | ||
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On May 17 2013 06:36 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Why is it impossible. Seriously. We know that I was scumblocked day 1 You were townblocked We have mafia framer we have one flipped unaware miller we have a claimed self aware miller we have a flipped insane dt we have a claimed paranoid dt that is 5 mechanics to fuck with the town via checks. Dts are going to eventually claim, and thus create the shit show we got day 3. No host imo will pull that shit. That leaves me with you or WoS as scum. Given that I was scumblocked day 1, it is virtually impossible for me to be mafia unless you believe that I did that day 1 in the hopes I would live this long just for a gambit that would be near unlikely to bear fruit. Seriously Palmar. One of you and WoS has to be mafia. As such Gigyas is confirmed mafia based on the votes and you are refusing to vote for him. This isnt a "i dont know" you have outright said hes town when its extremely obvious hes not. This is what makes you mafia. It's impossible because of the sheer amount of effort, analysis I've put in the game. | ||
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If I had gone on the tirade at you not even letting me write the goddamn case I would've actually looked even more fucking town than I already do, but I don't cheat so I'm going to get mislynched tomorrow. This is absolute fucking bullshit. | ||
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On May 17 2013 06:42 BloodyC0bbler wrote: Honestly dude, if he flips town its my fault. Given how it would be 3 town in a row id have pushed -_- Do you not fucking think I wanted to post shit like this. Difference is I don't cheat. | ||
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7. Once a majority has been reached, please do not post until the night-post. | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:09 getmoript wrote: Funny before you called everyone who posted after the deadline town. Now you want them mod killed... Lulz i want them modkilled as town too. I wanted you modkilled on day 1 for marv posting information after "death" which should be illegal. | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:10 WaveofShadow wrote: So post it anyway. Go ahead, I'm listening. I just started writing it and ragedeleted it, as I thought giygas would probably just flip town and the game would be over. | ||
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But we were asked to not discuss modkills, so let's drop it. | ||
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Do not quickhammer, that's the worst possible play in lylo. The problem here is that I'm even at this point not certain who the scum is between BC and geript. I'm almost leaning geript, but I don't know. | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:38 WaveofShadow wrote: So you're saying BC bussed gigs in order to take an extra day to win, when he could have won right away. or geript? idk? | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:40 WaveofShadow wrote: PS This is extra hilarious if you're scum. Which I'm not, obviously. | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:43 WaveofShadow wrote: Also this. So of everyone in the game you picked me and gigs not to analyze at all. Me being one of those people, what do you think that's going to make me think? Hey BC/geript? Thoughts? Comments? Queries? Fucking popcorn? Why would I shoot Artanis over you when Artanis was about the only person smart enough to pull his head far enough out of his ass and realize that it's almost no chance I'm scum. | ||
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On May 17 2013 07:46 WaveofShadow wrote: Wait....what? Why would you shoot...as scum....Artanis....who would be smart enough to realize there's no chance you're scum? That makes absolutely no sense. my point is: assume I'm scum. Someone needs to die. Why do I pick the one person who thinks I'm town? | ||
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On May 17 2013 09:04 WaveofShadow wrote: For the record, Palmar, I'm still interested if you have anything to say. Especially since BC will be dying tonight and geript supposedly won't be around for a while. I will try to post a bit tomorrow. It's late now, I'm going to sleep. All I ask for is that I don't get quickhammered. Look at the situation if I'm town. | ||
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But hey it's ok. | ||
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Remember, the presumption is that I have a strong town-read on WoS. I'm somewhat vary of this townread, but based on effort and attitude, I think WoS being scum is a very, very long shot. If he is, then my hat off to him, that is some seriously impressive scumplay. I don't intend to chase that thought. So, I narrow the list (almost certainly correctly) down to three scum, GiygaS, BC and geript. Then I get put in a very, very strange position, two out of the three people that fill the remaining scum roles vote for the third. Knowing I am town, and given my strong townread on WoS, I am therefore presented with a situation that is one of the following: a) Scum have teamed up in hopes of convincing a townie to lynch the scummy townie. b) Scum have decided to bus and play for the long game. Is it all that surprising that in this situation I am very hesitant of what to do? Remember, I have to be absolutely certain that it's a bus, it CANNOT be positive scumhunting (two townies on one scum) because WoS and I are confirmed town in my perception of the game. If you wanted me to push GiygaS you're not only asking me to get a correct scumread, but be able to identify a bus and be absolutely certain that it's a bus and not an endgame move. This is extremely hard to do. The bottom line is: It's awful logic to think this last day, because of the lynch, the voting and the result, has somehow made me more likely to be scum. | ||
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Thus, it's much easier for WoS to follow this lynch than me, because he can blissfully ignore what is actually happening and roll with what has been set up, a lynch on me. | ||
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On May 18 2013 00:59 WaveofShadow wrote: For the record, I expect an answer from you before the NK otherwise I'm just going to assume you're scum. Geript I'm not sure I'll have time to make the case before night kill though. | ||
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On May 18 2013 08:11 Ace wrote: BC you and Palmar need to take a break from Mafia for a while :/ Why? | ||
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On May 18 2013 08:27 Ace wrote: Palmar...if geript is modconfirmed town why the hell is he alive for so long? come on you KNOW this - the worst thing for Scum is confirmed town. Going into LYLO and he is STILL alive? good job to geript though. Played everyone for fools with it and just sat back letting you guys argue. Didn't I try to get him lynched two days in a row now? | ||
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On May 18 2013 08:30 Ace wrote: not with that reasoning. If you would have brought that up Town would have no choice but to lynch him. I was going to include that in the case I was going to write today, along with the fact that due to how the day before went he almost certainly was the scum and not bc. But you know, quickhammers even when I beg that they don't happen. | ||
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On April 22 2013 01:57 Palmar wrote: Geript rerrible or scum? On April 22 2013 08:43 Palmar wrote: Just for the record I would be pretty heavily leaning scum on geript if it wasn't for the QT thing. The most alarming thing is not actually the random town-read on me, but his explanation of sylencia's alignment: When this read was made Sylencia had posted the following: This "read" is based on absolutely nothing, and whether or not Sylencia is a noob has almost nothing to do with his read. I don't understand this read and why on earth it's part of his "analysis". On April 22 2013 08:51 Palmar wrote: I have no information to question Sylencia's alignment I just posted the stuff about geript because I REALLY wanted to say it. That being said I don't think we should lynch him today based simply on the pseudo-confirm. On April 30 2013 19:13 Palmar wrote: getmoript - still looks awful, but cheated and didn't get modkilled so lynching him is pointless. if he's scum the game is invalid . On May 07 2013 08:07 Palmar wrote: No, geript may be the scummiest person in the thread, he just skates by on the modconfirm thing. On May 10 2013 08:32 Palmar wrote: I'm honestly kinda lost. I think I would sheep WoS but he seems to want to lynch me. dunnoh geript is super scummy, those reads he threw out with absolutely no reasoning behind them back on day 1 still bother me, but he does have the modconfirm thing going. so.... whatever. On May 10 2013 23:25 Palmar wrote: geript is scummy but has the modconfirm On May 11 2013 01:33 Palmar wrote: check out getmoript too please. I know about the modconfirm thing, but he has some real bad stuff in his filter. On May 15 2013 01:20 Palmar wrote: Just a question on personality. I've don't know geript that well, but I've spoken with him, and he came across as a guy who wants to improve, wants to learn and is enthusiastic about the game of mafia. Maybe I'm overestimating him, but I kind of read him as a promising new-ish guy who would attempt to win the game no matter the odds. I just see such a completely different attitude here. Compare the attitude of myself, WoS and Artanis in these last few days with geript's attitude. It's blatantly different. He's not even trying to win the game for town, which means, to me, that it's likely he isn't town. Did you know that geript has an 11 page filter. Page 10 starts on like may 3rd. He's posting like 1-2 times a day since the Ace lynch. He's not involved at all and seems to care very little what happens, yet he's emotional enough to viciously attack me for no good reason. dunnoh... | ||
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On May 18 2013 08:42 getmoript wrote: Sure, but you were alive for a reason. Should've been obvious around the OO kill. you were alive for a reason too, the host decided to let mafia win. | ||
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On May 18 2013 08:53 Ace wrote: Host was in a bad position. I think after reading how things went down nothing showed that geript was modconfirmed town. Outside of intentional game mechanics how did geript become so? Hydras aren't auto-town. No. But posting information that can affect people's read on you after death should be modkillable. I decided (as exemplified by one of my posts above) to ignore Geript as part of the game, and simply consider the game invalid if he was scum. Hydras aren't auto-town, but the assumption is that there wouldn't have to exist a seperate hydra QT when they can just talk to each other in the mafia QT, so the issue wouldn't have been brought up at all. | ||
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Idk? | ||
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The problem arises when Marv, after "death" reveals outside information that affects the game, probably ruins it. Don't you think the game would've gone differently if I push geript day 1? | ||
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Biggest compliment should go to WoS btw, sure his reads were off, but he saved town a mislynch with his super-townie play. Rayn, Vivax and Cheesecake also played very well. Artanis was good after he came in too. | ||
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Oh and shiaopi was okay too, he probably could've lasted a day or two longer even if he was under suspicion on day 2, but he got checked so that was that. | ||
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On May 20 2013 23:05 geript wrote: If Marv were trying to cheat, then he would've been giving me strategy throughout. I don't think Marv needed to say anything in order to mod-confirm me. Nothing Marv said wasn't implied something that wasn't what BH said. At no point was I unlynchable. No one actually posted a good case against me and that's what it takes in that type of situation. point being that situation shouldn't have existed in the first place. If you were 1% harder to lynch because of this, the game is ruined and invalid. | ||
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On May 21 2013 00:16 geript wrote: Palmar, you were lazy and lost because of it. Hosting did not make you lazy; if you want to win, then play to win. shut the fuck up | ||
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On May 21 2013 01:18 iamperfection wrote: since when do you need a big case to prove someone is mafia. And even if he did post a gigantic case palmar's big problem would have been when a fellow townie or hell even a clever scum goes but what about "mod" confirm. There is nothing palmar could say to that. this actually happened case (combined with an earlier case) http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=404332¤tpage=270#5381 vote: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18545388 ! http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18545549 | ||
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