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On May 09 2013 06:56 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 06:53 Palmar wrote:On May 09 2013 06:48 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 09 2013 06:47 Palmar wrote:On May 09 2013 06:44 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 09 2013 06:40 WaveofShadow wrote:On May 09 2013 01:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
WoS, I was not interested in commenting on the thoughts at that time because I didn't want either Palmar or BC lynched yesterday. I also won't comment on it until night ends. I highly doubt anyone but the JK will die, but in case I randomly get shot, just sheep BM yo. He handsome~ Alright I guess you didn't promise anything, I just assumed you were going to comment once night ended. I'm not following how you think Palmar's recent actions are now the nail in the coffin for him, I'm really not. You're presuming I wasn't suspicious of Palmar yet. Ever since I realized Sharrant was the JK I've kept my eye on Palmar. I just wanted to see if he was going to claim Paranoid or Insane, and make sure he did so before I showed my intents so that he couldn't choose the story that would happen to fit the best to argue himself out of a lynch. That large post was a nail in the coffin because he's not actually looking for scum. He's been doing what he's been doing all game ever since he figured the troll act wouldn't work anymore; try to stay alive in whichever way possible. Is staying alive only the objective of mafia? The main objective of town is to find scum, not to stay alive. The main objective of scum is to stay alive. Part of lynching scum is to not get lynched as town right? That removes one potential candidate from the pool. Would you say I have not scumhunted this game? I consider both parts equal. If every town player makes sure he doesn't get lynched then the game is quite easy, right? There's a difference between how you act when trying to survive and how I acted when I felt I was going down. There is a clear point here and Artanis is right, but I just don't like how he's going about it. I (and others) have pointed out in the past how you have basically done anything and everything to assume your own survival from one day to the next and you've always managed to squeeze out of it. You could say the same thing might have been true for yamato at times but yamato buckled down and did his fucking damndest to give us his all. You have done no such thing aside from short bursts of activity here and there which have amounted to nothing since you have been a suspect.
You and I aren't the same person, we don't respond in the same way to adversity.
I have done everything to make sure I don't get lynched because well, it's a mislynch to lynch me. I have given you detailed reasoning of my reads of several players in this game.
And your point that my activity has amounted to nothing since I've been a suspect, yet you attack me for trying to explain why I shouldn't be a suspect? I don't understand what you want me to do. It's very, very distracting to be repeatedly called scum with no reasoning behind it.
I don't even understand the logic here, are you saying that the valiant town Palmar would shut up and get lynched whereas scum Palmar would put effort into defending himself?
Hell, I suppose I should be proud people think I'm this good at scum.
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On May 09 2013 06:58 WaveofShadow wrote:
A confession which would make some sense based on your perception of the cases I and yamato and now Artanis have brought to get you lynched.
"I don't deserve to get caught as scum if the town can't properly catch me and a lie/slip/outlogic me/whatever."
This seems extremely egotistical and yet it would seem to fit with your personality as I have come to see it.
It's like complaining about cheese in BW. It's all part of the game. If you're caught, you're caught bro.
Again, you only read my stuff as if I'm scum.
Town-Palmar has the same pride as scum-Palmar. I want to make absolutely 100% dead fucking sure that if I get lynched, there will be no argument that it was a good lynch anyway, that I was playing scummy, any kind of justification.
If I die, I want to demonstrate as visibly as possible that it's a terrible lynch and there will be no excuses other than... well wanting to lynch me for lulz, or maybe for fear, or something. I want no one to be able to claim he voted for me with a reason.
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I want everyone on my wagon to admit he's voting me because he's terrible.. basically.
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I misunderstood your post to mean you were telling me that my scumhunting was pointless because I was a suspect.
I'm helping everyone by establishing my innocence. I hate being called scum with no reasoning and it massively (see: yamato) distracts my scumhunting.
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Assuming that scum did NOT hold their block, BC can, I suppose, be safely removed from the pool of players I need to look at today, leaving 4.
geript
stutters
hopeless
giggles
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By the way, the fact that Artanis is involved in this shitstorm makes it less likely he is scum. I also think that while extremely stupid, his "trap" thing or whatever it was (basically wanting to lynch me if I was paranoid, sorry I rolled that role bro) means he's at least trying to use some metrics to his scumhunting.
I think most of the scum would've stayed away today/tonight.
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On May 09 2013 07:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 07:11 Palmar wrote:
I misunderstood your post to mean you were telling me that my scumhunting was pointless because I was a suspect.
I'm helping everyone by establishing my innocence. I hate being called scum with no reasoning and it massively (see: yamato) distracts my scumhunting. If you think what you're doing now will help establish your innocence better than scumhunting I think you're a lot worse at this game then you think.
I have admitted it a million times, it basically disrupts me extremely hard when people call me scum for no reason. This is not the first game I say this.
Take your vote off me, tell me I'm a unique little flower (and town), work with me, criticize my list from the point of view that I'm town. That's how you can get me scumhunting.
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On May 09 2013 07:15 WaveofShadow wrote:
Lynching into those four is going to absolutely suck.
Even IF Palmar is scum it's still going to suck.
Just assume I'm town please, so we can start doing something. You can backtrack and autolynch me later in the day or something.
I don't understand your post that it sucks. Do you think it's unlikely there is scum to be found in that list? Would you change the list in any way?
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well that makes it easier.
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On May 09 2013 07:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 07:18 Palmar wrote:On May 09 2013 07:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 09 2013 07:11 Palmar wrote:
I misunderstood your post to mean you were telling me that my scumhunting was pointless because I was a suspect.
I'm helping everyone by establishing my innocence. I hate being called scum with no reasoning and it massively (see: yamato) distracts my scumhunting. If you think what you're doing now will help establish your innocence better than scumhunting I think you're a lot worse at this game then you think. I have admitted it a million times, it basically disrupts me extremely hard when people call me scum for no reason. This is not the first game I say this. Take your vote off me, tell me I'm a unique little flower (and town), work with me, criticize my list from the point of view that I'm town. That's how you can get me scumhunting. You called my plan extremely dumb so no can do, I'm going to tunnel you the rest of the game now because my feelings are hurt 
Ok assume for a second I actually AM paranoid cop.
Is there then no option in your plan other than to autolynch a townie because that's the brilliance of your plan?
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On May 09 2013 07:22 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well that saves us a mislynch I guess? Kinda annoying but mafia did lose tube so I can't be too broken up in the interest of fairness.
If we somehow figure out that Palmar is no longer on the block for today I'd really like to look into Geript as though he were not 'modconfirmed.' Or Hopeless. I don't really think Jiggles/BM is scum. Kush I've honestly got no clue.
On May 04 2013 07:04 Palmar wrote:Few things about kush. I haven't played with him enough to know if he's an asshole as any alignment, but generally the aggressive moves (like demanding those essays) are more townielike. He also made a few posts that just don't add perfectly up if he's scum. The first one being the misconception about the scum night kill, because it's hard to feign the idea so casually: Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 05:53 kushm4sta wrote:
inb4 scumpalmar was roleblocked and thats why theres only 1 nk Also, this read of his on VE: Show nested quote +On April 25 2013 14:52 kushm4sta wrote:hi ace. you aren't town this game so i'm not listening to your suggestions and nor should anyone else. VE is town. He is town from his first post in the game. On April 21 2013 23:02 VisceraEyes wrote:
THANKS FOR MAKING ME HAVE TO READ THE DAMNED OP BH THAT WAS COOL OF YOU NOT
Sup guys I'm here and I'm very town. So whazzup? only town would complain about having to read the op (because the role names weren't colored) I am gonna vote for shiaopi. I don't want to go for clarity because now Ace is pushing it. A very similar thing happened yesterday. Yamato was the popular lynch, then Ace pushed Oats, claiming the case on Oats was really good (even though in retrospect it sucked). Means he's thinking about the game from a townie perspective. No one else (I can remember) pointed out this idea that VE was town based on this. The last point has an obvious bias, knowing I am town: Show nested quote +On May 01 2013 09:04 kushm4sta wrote:this is scum? i dont think so On April 27 2013 18:58 Palmar wrote:
Still think VE is the best lynch.
But I do agree with a clarity lynch. I still don't understand how he entered the thread "catching up" and then had a fully fledged case within an hour. There was additionally no interest in pushing that lynch any harder. There is literally not a single "sharrant" in his filter after the case.
It just doesn't feel natural. He didn't ask Sharrant anything to try to determine his alignment, no "hey sharrant, explain this" or "what do you think about this". Just a straight up case with no build-up and no follow-up. Which basically tells me his heart wasn't really in it.
So with that I'm switching my vote to Clarity.
Lessgo.
Kush basically understands that this post cannot be made by a scum palmar as it's too legit and too in line with what I had been saying all day. Maybe he's a scummer giving me a warm fuzzy feeling about the posts, but it's just too many little things that kush has done throughout the game for me to call him scum.
On May 04 2013 07:07 Palmar wrote:throwing this post in on top of what I already wrote: Show nested quote +On April 22 2013 10:21 kushm4sta wrote:
Giygas as your self appointed lawyer I must remind you that you do not have to answer any of these questions, as you have not yet been charged with a crime. Kush is just too involved, genuine and carefree for me to think he's scum.
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On May 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Actually I shouldn't put Jigglypuff in the same category as BM. I know BM isn't scum.
Why do you know BM isn't scum?
I agree, I just want to know your thought process.
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I also think Kush wanting to lynch me as punishment but still being willing to hold off on it is something a townie would rather say than scum.
Kush is probably town.
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On May 09 2013 07:26 WaveofShadow wrote:
Would him being carefree include his dumb vote on yamato?
actually that's worse upon re-reading.
Still not sure he's shit-tier.
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On May 09 2013 07:28 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 07:26 Palmar wrote:On May 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Actually I shouldn't put Jigglypuff in the same category as BM. I know BM isn't scum.
Why do you know BM isn't scum? I agree, I just want to know your thought process. Why do you want to know the thought process of a strong town read on a strong town read that you agree with?
Because why not? Maybe WoS knows something I don't know and it can help me understand the game. Maybe BM made a good post I've missed (I've basically disregarded BM since this post of mine: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18481428)
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More importantly, Yamato and WoS both seem to share an unexplained town read on GiygaS. Can someone enlighten me?
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On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 07:12 Palmar wrote:
Assuming that scum did NOT hold their block, BC can, I suppose, be safely removed from the pool of players I need to look at today, leaving 4.
geript
stutters
hopeless
giggles I think that this list is shit. Inactivity at this point is less likely to come from scum we're in the phase where inactivity kills. If they felt defeated already they could've just conceded after Ace was killed. Scum obviously feel confident that despite being shit on early, they have a good shot at winning, that means that scum are likely more active than inactive. If anything, Palmar's just throwing shit out to push another mislynch. He's bitching about people calling him scum is based on shit; that's the pot calling the kettle black. His whole case on yamato was shit. Here's his case on Oats: "He called me scum so Oats is totes scum." Here's Palmar's case on yamato: "Yamato called me scum so he's totes scum." Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous. Besides, you had to 'check' to see if you taking a hit after being jailed would be told; you were only checking to see if you could safely claim the hit. It also explains why there was only 1 roleblock on N2 because you recognized Ace was scum and didn't want to die. Ace must've taken the hit on N1.
You can't have it both buddy. Either I'm wrong or I'm scum.
And because fuck you, I actually (as explained in the TRN QT) did not think Oats would flip scum.
But yes, I called yamato scum because he called me scum without providing any reasoning.
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On May 09 2013 07:34 Stutters695 wrote:
Sorry guys. Catching up now.
you dead son
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On May 09 2013 07:32 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On May 09 2013 07:26 Palmar wrote:On May 09 2013 07:24 WaveofShadow wrote:
Actually I shouldn't put Jigglypuff in the same category as BM. I know BM isn't scum.
Why do you know BM isn't scum? I agree, I just want to know your thought process. A few things that I can point out real quick. I know I was unsure of him for most of the game but in later days: Show nested quote +On May 06 2013 18:21 Bill Murray wrote:On May 06 2013 17:08 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
With that I meant that I consider you three pretty strongly town, not that I suspect any of you. Geript because of the marvkill, and Yamato because I really don't see how he could've held this kind of activity and care this much as scum with a scumteam including at least 3 inactives.
I don't like lynching GiggleS at the moment, but I'd be happy to pressure Stutters for a bit. With Palmar I want him to check WoS since if he's insane and not paranoid he'll get a green check on him regardless, so we'll be certain of his alignment presuming it's legit. If he gets red we can always off him then. Why do you see me as town?I realized what you meant, but I know you knew you didn't have to explain that to me. We are pretty much on the same page, from what I have read from you... I didn't really think Drazak was scum, even when I made a weak little case on him - I was just wanting to pressure your slot. That's where you replaced into, right? As far as I can tell this is rarely something scum wants to question even if it makes them look towny. I remember his analysis of the Shiao wagon at the time of the VE derail looked good, and then this. Under normal circumstances I would think this to be alignment null but the act of pointing this out himself, knowing that if he was scum or wrong other people would shut him down (ie you) shows that he has complete confidence in this. I am unsure exactly why it modconfirms him town myself, same with the Geript thing (I have some idea about the gript thing but I think it's weak evidence) but nonetheless it is his actions. What about you, Palmar?
I actually have a meta reason for being almost certain that BM is town. In PYP I made a case on him on day one as to being scum:
On April 06 2013 20:55 Palmar wrote:
@Mocsta:
BM is scum. he adds nothing at all with his posts which (surprisingly enough) is actually very uncharacteristic for him if he's town.
Just based on content alone he's really not doing much except giving out a townread on VE based on meta for whatever reason.
In order to see whether there was a difference or not, I went to BC's arkham city, an old game but one with mechanics to deal with and BM playing town, and his posting there couldn't be more different from what he's doing here, or well... it could, but then it wouldn't be BM anymore.
so I had BM's meta very freshly in my mind. So what I did was simply compare these two games and his involvement early on:
Arkham City (Town BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=305850&user=54241
Boardwalk-PYP (Scum BM): http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=403766&user=54241
and then this game.
I actually thought it was BM who was the JK for a long time, based on this:
On April 22 2013 13:40 Bill Murray wrote:
and idc if they're unhappy. i have 1 vote on me. i didnt "pull any stunts". I was entering the thread in the random voting stage, and goofing off mildly, because I am happy that I rolled a good role for my win %.
and the excitement about roles reminded me of his AC play (not being able to shut up about roles)
On February 08 2012 01:59 Bill Murray wrote:
when i say half of the game having names of their own, i mean to say half of the game are town power roles
if you are not green, and not mafia, you are a power role, right?
i guess not all 16 have to be in the game...
anyways, im going to officially claim that i am not a townie
In addition, just look at how terrible his PYP filter is, it's basically aggressive oneliners, stark contrast with his attempts at figuring things out day 1 here.
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On May 09 2013 07:30 getmoript wrote:
Fuck you Palmar, we're not that dumb. You've made a bullshit claim and made bullshit pushes for bullshit reasons. You're a hypocrit and an idiot. VE's right, you're wrong more than you are right and no one should ever listen to you. The fact that you are 'alive' at this point is ridiculous.
why you heff 2 be mad? it's only game?
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EPT
