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On April 06 2013 00:56 VisceraEyes wrote:
I just woke up and I have a fucking crazy idea.
What if everyone who picks KP roles promises not to use them? I was looking at the role list and it seems that scum KP is fixed at 1? So it seems like scum will be focusing on trying to increase their KP (in a game this size).
What if we all just don't use KP roles and lynch the fucking piss out of anyone who does? I mean obviously scum aren't going to claim if/when they do, but if we can get townies into the KP roles this would be a really good way to try and limit mafia KP.
^Mafia
He's either not reading the thread at all or he's trying to fake a contribution as the idea that he brings up is one that has been repeated by a bunch of other players and is crap anyway. Additionally, VisceraEyes is known for taking ridiculous shots himself and doing whatever he feels like as town so it's very out of character for him to suggest that these types of players should be auto-lynched.
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On April 06 2013 05:07 Keirathi wrote:
And an aside:
It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways.
Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America. In some ways it's a "If you give a mouse a cookie" scenario.
If you suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with nukes, then you kind of have to suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with dayvig powers. If you suggest lynching daynukers and dayvigs, you should probably also be lynching any night vigs who claim their shots and hit townies. You're suggesting, at the very least, lynching SOME vigis who hit townies, if not all.
There are a boatload of posts from earlier on why I think that/that policy is a bad idea. MZ had some too. I'm fine saying "townies shouldn't be shooting." See those posts. I'm fine if decon or someone jokingly/seriously says "I'm taking KP roles and blasting someone in the face every day no matter what anyone says." Well, not fine, but I honestly wouldn't find that scummy.
I find the half-position that I get from your post, that townies maybe shouldn't shoot, but maybe they should, except if they do and hit town they'll get lynched. You're implicitly saying, "Townies, you guys should shoot, but only hit scum, kkk." Which is unrealistic to expect, a poor plan for KP roles imo, and just generally not what I'd expect from you.
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VE. I do not like you right now. I fully believe in the idea that you pushed in the Nomination podcast that you can ALWAYS scumhunt. I have not seen you do anything of the sort. Explain yourself.
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On April 06 2013 05:58 austinmcc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 06 2013 05:07 Keirathi wrote:
And an aside:
It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways.
Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America. In some ways it's a "If you give a mouse a cookie" scenario. If you suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with nukes, then you kind of have to suggest lynching townies who shoot townies with dayvig powers. If you suggest lynching daynukers and dayvigs, you should probably also be lynching any night vigs who claim their shots and hit townies. You're suggesting, at the very least, lynching SOME vigis who hit townies, if not all. There are a boatload of posts from earlier on why I think that/that policy is a bad idea. MZ had some too. I'm fine saying "townies shouldn't be shooting." See those posts. I'm fine if decon or someone jokingly/seriously says "I'm taking KP roles and blasting someone in the face every day no matter what anyone says." Well, not fine, but I honestly wouldn't find that scummy. I find the half-position that I get from your post, that townies maybe shouldn't shoot, but maybe they should, except if they do and hit town they'll get lynched. You're implicitly saying, "Townies, you guys should shoot, but only hit scum, kkk." Which is unrealistic to expect, a poor plan for KP roles imo, and just generally not what I'd expect from you.
That's not what I'm saying at all thought.
I don't think townies should be shooting. I thought I made that perfectly clear.
But I am also a realist, and I know that people are going to shoot if they want to shoot. I am trying to discourage them from doing so, in a way that saying "pretty please play nice" won't.
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Oh, and another point:
Why would I be telling townies to shoot, when I also specifically told townies to take protection/investigation roles because they are stronger than KP roles? Does not compute.
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You seem very defensive, Keirathi. Incredibly defensive. You have 11ish posts all defending yourself and we haven't even reached day 1 yet.
I think the most important post you've made was this one
On April 06 2013 05:07 Keirathi wrote:
And an aside:
It was a policy to police ONE role (well maybe 2...depends on how Russia works). A role with which no townie SHOULD be shooting anyways.
Why are you so adamantly against that? It doesn't make sense, unless you're posturing to protect yourself/someone who is planning to pick America.
That's a pretty sly attempt at calling someone scum without actually going anywhere near calling him scum.
Right now I have you as a scum read, but I want to hear more from you because I've spent a while debating whether I'm forcing the case in my head.
You seemed all over the place during the pick/deny discussion during the draft number pick phase, primarily attacking plans rather than offering criticism, and in general not following a single train of thought. You got incredibly defensive once Caller mentioned you as scum (seriously, 11 posts about it in approximately 4 hours worth of time).
You made that snipey comment quoted above, and overall your play feels sterile. You don't feel engaged in the conversation, you don't read like town Keirathi. You read like the Keirathi in GSL Open, and in This Town.
What you do not read like is the Keirathi in Red Team or Themed.
##FoS: Keirathi
If I'm wrong, prove it to me, but right now I want you to be the first one to hang.
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So I guess I should assume that someone higher than me in the draft order is taking inventor ...
I know I'm decently high but I think Ryan or someone said they were going for it
I'll just have to share some of my super awesome townie invention ideas
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Hi Geript.
On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
I'm not saying that you haven't done anything not town Mocsta-ish. There's just a very specific heuristic that town Mocsta seems to follow that you haven't hit on yet for me. I'm leaning town on you but until you get that one aspect I have a hard time putting you there fully.
As for your posting, I really like it.
Translates to
On April 05 2013 13:05 geript wrote:
Hi, I think you're being townie, but you're not being you-townie, yet I still think you're townie but I'm not sure if you're townie.
Oh and I think you're pretty townie.
Why on earth would a townie post this?
WHY?
Mocsta wasn't even close to being in danger, and the town motivation for calling someone town, then suspicious, then town eludes me.
On April 05 2013 14:00 geript wrote:
eh, I don't value investigation roles very highly. If people want to go for them, I'm not going to prevent it. I think that there are just better options available. As for protection roles, the only one I really like is jailkeeper. If you want to post a better list I would love to see it. As a matter of fact I think it would be good for other people to chime in on general draft strategy as it would give some of the slackers a better idea of what to go for.
Investigation and protective roles are truly awful for town. Who'd want less KP at night in the game, right?
On April 05 2013 15:05 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 14:58 geript wrote:
Sorry missed that question. The more I play the less full 180's seems like 'sure thing scum tells' to me; as a matter of fact, IIRC 90% of the 180's in the last game were done by town. I'd say it's suspicious and worth looking into him more, but there was a quote from the VE/BH mason log that it reminds me of it boiled down to something like "I don't want to push Geript into a corner because the more we do that the likelier he is to look like scum and prevent us from being able to avoid a mislynch. Instead I'd rather try and interact with him on his scumreads etc." I think VE's strategy is a very good one. I think it's suspicious but not to the point that it's a full scum tell for me. I'd much rather try and interact with him in a way to not lose him in case he is town. Fair points that are applicable to anyone. Look, though my emphasis is on Rayn, I am not tunneled on him. If he proves his innocence, I will move on. But having reviewed my interactions with him, I am struggling to see how he can even be a remote town read. (From my POV) At best he is null. ==== As an aside, I think holding off lynching candidates in the top 5 draft is terrible: just because there is a risk of lynching a townie that held an awesome role. If someone be scummy, you lynch them. Full Stop.
On April 05 2013 15:09 geript wrote:
Thank you Moc, now I know that you are town.
This post apparently makes Mocsta town. In what world can scum not make a post like this? What is it about this post that makes you read him as this apparent townMocsta?
Also, as Mocsta already brought up
On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote:
@VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip. Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that. I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess....
On its own it's not lynchworthy, but with how poorly scumript has been playing so far I'd say this adds to the case.
Vote scum. Vote Geript.
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Seriously though, it's a little early to have a set lynch candidate.
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I know, I meant vote him when it's daytime obviously.
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Also, how about actually commenting on the case rather than waffling around it?
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Your case is based on things said basically before the game started. Maybe it isn't the best town play to do what geript did at the beginning of your analysis, but it's really not scummy. Your second argument has no base, because it's just an opinion. Your entire post basically states nothing.
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How is calling someone town then scum then town over nothing not scummy? How is him not inventing a reason at random from a null post to suddenly call mocsta town after doubting him not scummy? What are your categories for someone being scum exactly?
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11589 Posts
Geript is obviously not mafia if you've been reading the game at all.
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On April 06 2013 07:57 yamato77 wrote:
Geript is obviously not mafia if you've been reading the game at all.
Why?
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Artanis I think the thing you're not understanding is that me and Moc have history.
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Can you explain in which way your history is relevant to calling him leaning town but not really mocstatown yet leaning townie but not really but yeah kinda in thread?
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Man.. Artanis.. I *ABHOR* association reads.
But, considering the pressure keirathi is under; and this case on Geript.
I will admit I found it odd that Keirathi decided to step in to "hard defend" Geript regarding that "scum slip" comment.
Why?
Because it didnt put Geript under any pressure. So I could not understand why Keirathi wanted to interject and devote so many posts to discussing this matter.
And then to Culminate by throwing suspicion on my action.
Just food for thought.
+ Show Spoiler [scumslip exchange] +On April 05 2013 15:46 geript wrote:
@VE Why are you so quiet? I'm not used to you being so behind the scenes instead of being spammy. I would like to get a read on you. On April 05 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote:
I sincerely hope that isnt a scum slip.
Because, I expect more from your scum play than a loose phrase like that.
I think I know what you meant; but the implication is.. you are aware of what VE is doing currently; which is knowledge townies certainly do not possess.... On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote:
Err what?
How is that in any way a scumslip :o
You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. On April 05 2013 15:57 Mocsta wrote:
Perhaps, the only reason I dont think its a slip is because its a common saying; and perhaps used in the wrong context.
It still does infer he is aware VE is active in a QT. On April 05 2013 16:02 Keirathi wrote:You mean imply, not infer. You inferred based on his implication  But I digress... I don't even think it implies that. I mean, I guess I can see how you can read it and think that, but in context the implication to me is that VE is not being out in the open with his thoughts, and instead of hiding in the background without particularly doing anything. Which I can agree with, but I don't think it really means anything yet. On April 05 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote:
Regardless of English semantics.
we are saying the same thing.
I agree, that was his intention - as the saying is common, and perhaps used incorrectly.
I think more of Geript than to scum slip and actually imply VE is busy in the QT - so easily.
Regardless, I didnt want to make an inference so early on; so went straight to the source.
The whole question is voided now, but it was never a big deal in the first place. <3 On April 05 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote:
Which brings me to another question: Why even bring it up then? Like, what purpose did it serve, if you already didn't think it was a scumslip? On April 05 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote:
The purpose I suggested one sentence above that line.
I didnt want to make an inference so early on, so went straight to the source.
If we start filling in the gaps now; we will never figure out the scum team.. that is what they want us to do, and how we become tunneled.
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Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences.
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EPT
