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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 3

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:13 GMT
#313
Contradiction CITY. (for me)

Why caller Yamato?

Why is him being hilarious, scummy?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:17 GMT
#316
On April 05 2013 00:15 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 00:13 Oatsmaster wrote:
Contradiction CITY. (for me)

Why caller Yamato?

Why is him being hilarious, scummy?

He's being disruptive to this discussion, just like you. You're just both doing it in different ways.

For you, at least, I expect a certain amount of repeating bad questions. Caller, I know little about, but that's the point of asking.


Why dont you just lynch yourself every game then? You disrupt the game too sometimes.

Thats a really really really bad argument for me/Caller for being scum.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:22 GMT
#320
On April 05 2013 00:20 yamato77 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 00:18 deconduo wrote:
On April 05 2013 00:14 yamato77 wrote:
On April 05 2013 00:09 deconduo wrote:
On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
oh deconduo too.

So you arent in favor of directing picks even though it wins the game right?


Pretty much. This is not a new opinion, I've said the same in every PYP game I've played.

On April 04 2013 23:47 Oatsmaster wrote:
What is good out of the PYP games that you played previously and want to implement/do in this game since it is also a PYP game?


Good question actually. If you take the drafting part out of the equation, the game plays out pretty much the same as any insane type setup. Apart from that, you can start deducing roles from vanilla claims, flips and actions taken. Some roles will be pretty obvious once they are used, such as janitor, PoD etc. Once you know that a role is in the game you can start working out who has it, and if they've used it in a pro or anti-town manner.


On April 04 2013 23:56 yamato77 wrote:
You removed the draft order because of how you feel the game should be played. BC, then, made an obvious decision to NOT do that. Don't you think he has a reason for doing that? Should we just ignore possible advantages gained from setup just because we feel like it goes "against the spirit of the game"? If BC felt that way, why did he include the draft order? If he doesn't feel that way, why are you not trying your hardest to win? If it isn't against the rules, isn't it presumed by the host that it might happen?


You can try your hardest to win without taking advantage of what you consider to be faults in the system. As I said, if people prefer to play to win no matter what, I'll go along with them. I'm just stating my objection in the hopes that other people will feel the same was as I do.

If cheesing every game gave you the best chance to win, would you still do it?

You define it as cheesing. BC did not. There's no reason to needlessly eliminate strategies that are beneficial to your wincon if they are perfectly within the rules, and should have been considered in the balancing of the game.

That's why the Koreans were so good at "cheese" early on in SC2, because while the westerners were being idealistic in their play, the Koreans played to win, and did. If mafia can't figure out how to combat this strategy within this setup, then they deserve to lose, because I have specifically talked about counterplay.


I think you've misunderstood me. I'm objecting to it because its not fun, not because its unfair to the mafia. That's completely aside from the point I'm making. If I felt it was anti-town I would still be against it.

Cheesing is good to throw in every once in a while to mix things up, but if you did it every game it would be boring as fuck. I feel the same way about the picking strats. Why not let everyone pick what they want for once, instead of forcing everyone to pick based on the position they get in the draft.

Do you want mafia getting all of the ridiculous OP roles and auto-winning the game?

I don't. So I plan against that happening.

Its not all or nothing you know :/

No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:31 GMT
#324
On April 05 2013 00:27 yamato77 wrote:
ANYWAY, let's talk about Oats/Caller.

Pick one and call him mafia for a good reason. Gogo.


What.

HAHA

HAHA
do that yourself

Also think about it for a good second. maybe 2.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:35 GMT
#325
Back on topic.

Any objections to previous strategy employed by players from Redux?

Why not and new strategy if you disapprove
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:39 GMT
#328
On April 05 2013 00:36 Caller wrote:
also if yamato flips, I'm pretty damn sure oats is mafia too.


what?

Explain the association please

Up to 5 now.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:42 GMT
#330
On April 05 2013 00:41 Caller wrote:
just you two, actually, i withdraw any other accusations for now.


keep going and explain something now that you somehow got rid of your accent?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:43 GMT
#333
On April 05 2013 00:42 Caller wrote:
don't need to. it should be obvious.


Im dumb and stupid
Spell it out for me please
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 15:49 GMT
#337
Damn everyone jumping on the Caller wagon.

Best part about this.

Discussion is off the role assigning thing.

discuss please
On April 05 2013 00:08 Oatsmaster wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 00:03 Sharrant wrote:
On April 05 2013 00:02 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 04 2013 23:56 yamato77 wrote:
On April 04 2013 23:44 deconduo wrote:
Morning all, things seem to have gotten heated pretty quickly. I've just skimmed the thread so far but I'm going to jump in with my opinion on the draft.

Setting predefined picks for the draft order tends to work out well for town. In fact it is a large reason for mafia getting caught out in the last two PYP games I played. However it is massively un-fun, and I feel goes against the spirit of the game. Its also the reason I got rid of the whole drafting phase in the PTP games I hosted.

If the majority want to go along with a pre-defined pick order, I'll co-operate. But given that there are almost three times more roles than players, why not have a free for all and play the game like its supposed to be played?

I've specifically addressed this point before, but I will reiterate.

You removed the draft order because of how you feel the game should be played. BC, then, made an obvious decision to NOT do that. Don't you think he has a reason for doing that? Should we just ignore possible advantages gained from setup just because we feel like it goes "against the spirit of the game"? If BC felt that way, why did he include the draft order? If he doesn't feel that way, why are you not trying your hardest to win? If it isn't against the rules, isn't it presumed by the host that it might happen?

oh god dont mention the host as a way of making your point.
Please dont.

Austin, arent the mafia favoured roles instantly killed when they are outed anyway, because they chose that role = they are mafia? Like we dont need to say 'OH YOU CONTRADICTED YOURSELF AT THE START. SCUM'

Also arent there only like 4-5 roles that everyone knows that are best for scum?

I just dont see how this discussion is a useful way to spend our time


And what, pray tell, is a more important way to spend our time at this very moment? What would you rather be discussing?


I think we should be discussing which roles we want to deny but I dont think its alignment indicative at all.
Sorry if I didnt make that clear.

Ok on to the role denying part.

1. How many roles do we want to deny.
Im thinking either 2-3 I think it gets substantial less useful as a strategy the more roles you want to deny
2. Which are those roles?
Im thinking the same as Redux
CPR doc and Janitor basically.



No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 16:25 GMT
#339
So CPR doc isnt a KP role. Rightttt

I agree with the KP role thing.

Your plan is people in 1-4 randomly choosing from this list?
and 5-8 choosing from another list? Or something else?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 16:30 GMT
#342
On April 05 2013 01:28 geript wrote:
Right, if we get people to choose from a list even if mafia go early, they have a problem selecting from a list above them and must instead pick from a list below them. While they'll be able to coordinate things as such, it still makes them pick less powerful roles in general instead of more powerful roles.


#Mindgames

It could take out 8 roles/make it risky for scum to choose those roles.

Hmm

Other peoples thoughts?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 16:34 GMT
#345
On April 05 2013 01:32 Caller wrote:
all i know is that i'm going to a pick a role that will let me kill a certain two scum day 1


What Caller says is
'all i know is that i'm going to be completely anti town and tunnel vision my reads and ignore everything else that proves otherwise'

Cool beans dude.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 16:58 GMT
#347
On April 05 2013 01:56 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:
Hai

rolepicking is stupid and doesn't work, thanks for spamming the thread.

So let's move on to why people are calling Caller scum when it's pretty clear he's not.

Anyone wanna take credit for that... Bueller? Bueller?


scummy scum scum.

Also no one called Caller scum seriously.

they only called me scum seriously
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 17:29 GMT
#354
On April 05 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
1st of all: Sharrant requested roles like america to not be picked by town. No, scum can use it before getting lynched, so it doesn't matter if it outs them. Town needs the best of the best of the best, sir.

My idea: We get to an agreement about a few of the towniest mofos based on activity, interest and good ideas, and accept that they will roll the highest possible numbers and nobody who is town must roll the same.

That will leave a mixed pool of null/scum. Scum's main target will be to stop these elected townies from having these roles, so they will try to use the same draft, maybe while another teammate sends in other numbers to try and snatch the role.

That's where the null townies come into play. They will never use the same numbers as the elected townie mofos, forcing scum to waste their picks on taking away good roles from good townies by using the same numbers, leaving a limited amount of scum who will indeed try to roll good shit, and who has to affront a horde of townies who are less likely to take good roles away from each other.

Bad side: People might not give a fuck about the plan, and people might disagree on someone most believe to be town.


I dont give a fuck about this plan, because its a really dumb plan.
What do you think about geript's plan?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 17:49 GMT
#371
On April 05 2013 02:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:33 Vivax wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:23 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:20 Vivax wrote:
1st of all: Sharrant requested roles like america to not be picked by town. No, scum can use it before getting lynched, so it doesn't matter if it outs them. Town needs the best of the best of the best, sir.

My idea: We get to an agreement about a few of the towniest mofos based on activity, interest and good ideas, and accept that they will roll the highest possible numbers and nobody who is town must roll the same.

That will leave a mixed pool of null/scum. Scum's main target will be to stop these elected townies from having these roles, so they will try to use the same draft, maybe while another teammate sends in other numbers to try and snatch the role.

That's where the null townies come into play. They will never use the same numbers as the elected townie mofos, forcing scum to waste their picks on taking away good roles from good townies by using the same numbers, leaving a limited amount of scum who will indeed try to roll good shit, and who has to affront a horde of townies who are less likely to take good roles away from each other.

Bad side: People might not give a fuck about the plan, and people might disagree on someone most believe to be town.

What do you suggest those "few of the towniest mofos" pick then?


Just finished skimming the already gigantic thread (bleh). So I will try to focus on that on the next go. Didn't really pay too much attention to that yet.

For now, I'll try to simulate the plan cause I just spat that out spontaneously without playing it through yet.

Three most townish mofos get elected, let's say it's VE, Palmar and Caller. Purely hypothetical obviously.

Town agrees on this:

Palmar 11
Caller 21
VE 31

What can scum do now?

They can do 1 2 to reset Palmar back. 2 2 to reset Caller back etc., or try to roll their own shit and just deal with the fact that these people will get these roles.

That will leave two mafia who will fight rest of town in the 4 - 24 range to get good roles. And if the elected people don't manage to be first in draft, we will also have confirmation that mafia doesn't want them to have good roles.

It's almost like a mayoral election.

nonono..

The most towniest guys obviously pick 1,2,3, etc..

Lol what he is saying is that if the scum send the 3 townie dudes back, clearly it means that they dont want the townie dudes to have good powers.

I dont see what this does other than only take out 3 roles rather than 8.

Also with a few nightkill protect roles, shouldnt the towniest mofo's take those?
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 17:50 GMT
#373
Rayn wtf is your list?

The people who have proposed the best ideas?
WHAT?

Also I dont feel confident in 5 hard town reads at the time.

Going with geript's idea and I dont see why you dont want to
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 17:54 GMT
#379
On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.

I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.

It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D

au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them.

As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you?


You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately.
Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more.

So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 17:57 GMT
#383
On April 05 2013 02:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 05 2013 02:54 Oatsmaster wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:51 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:47 Caller wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 05 2013 02:43 Vivax wrote:
It's ok caller, just means you will be the last one along with the designated elected townie mofo you'll contest. Hurt yourself bro.

I'll take a look at your options there. Seems like you like to pick the most active ones, but need to check if they're actually proposing malicious ideas. Disagreed on some stuff with sharrant, for example. It's like he wanted to leave "dangerous" roles open for scum.

It doesn't matter if they proposed good or bad ideas. Mafia is probably not going to push any ideas at all (because they all have a backdoor - because there are so many roles). Everyone pushing ideas regardless if they are good/bad are probably town at this point, especially the guys who are pushing ultimately bad ideas. :D

au contraire mafia will push any ideas even if they are "good" because their picking strategy never reflects what town is thinking and if they have a "good plan" they become more "townlike." or they participate. either way it looks good on them.

As i said the guys top in drafting order are gonna fall fast, thay have the "best" roles after all (or at least likely). If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's good for town? Doesn't it hurt your team? If you were mafia why would you push an idea that's bad for town? Doesn't it draw suspicion to you?


You cant push a bad strategy in PYP, you just cant. It gets shut down immediately.
Its better for them to let town do what they do and maybe slightly alter the 'plan' to benefit scum more.

So therefore your town 'criteria' is absolute bullshit

Do you think bad plans are coming from town or from mafia? Why?

I think bad plans are more likely to come from town, but the decided plan, will appear town favoured.

No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 18:02 GMT
#391
On April 05 2013 02:58 Vivax wrote:
@ Caller

Reading OP helped a little with that.

The idea is good, there's not really much incentive for mafia to make plans or post at all at this stage. They have an excuse for not being active cause they might say they regard draft discussion as unimportant, so rayn's candidates are good choices. They spontaneously try to get the best out of the game, and if they push bad ideas they might look scummy, as rayn said.

Still have to read them in detail, but this argument holds anyway, given that activity and intention to influence thread are there, argument quality aside.


Fuck that.

Its the easiest way to look like town to contribute in a 'plan'. Its really easy cause you can do it as both alignments cause you dont have to offer any opinions.

In chrono trigger. Some of the scum werent all quiet and shit, they contributed and yes there was a bad plan proposed by scum, but I dont see that here.
No gg, No skill.
Oatsmaster
Profile Joined October 2012
United States16628 Posts
April 04 2013 18:02 GMT
#392
Vivax so scummy.
No gg, No skill.
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