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Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 18

Forum Index > TL Mafia
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geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 04:06 GMT
#3816
On April 16 2013 13:04 Shelvocke wrote:
##Vote Vivax
##Vote Oatsmaster


Oatsmaster: I don't think he's trying to find mafia. I'm too lazy to copy posts from the qt, but it's pretty much just MZ (and RO to a lesser extent) giving reasons and making points and asking Oats "town or scum" and oats will reply with a meaningless one-liner. He doesn't make any effort to say anything productive of his own. It's not what I expect from a town player who took a mason role.


Also nobody should be voting for yamato today. The fact that keirathi was killed last night is a strong indication that the last mafia member has to fear a cop check. As someone with a green check already on him, yamato doesn't have any reason to fear a cop.

I'll look into this line of thinking later... must sleep.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 15:55 GMT
#3904
So you think I'm scum again? Carr to explain?
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 16:16 GMT
#3906
On April 17 2013 01:04 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 00:55 geript wrote:
So you think I'm scum again? Carr to explain?


You seem like another good candidate for traitor, being vanilla, right?

Why don't you start explaining why you've not been taking part in our yamato discussion when you've apparently been here to show up when Mocsta dropped his vote on you?

I'll bet my left testicle that there isn't a traitor of any kind. If I were either traitor, then how would I know about NRA member being picked ahead of me.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 16:20 GMT
#3907
As for why I'm not here, come on people... We need to start thinking with our heads not our scared/paranoid egos. Just because someone isn't active at a point doesn't make them scum. It's what people do with their activity that matters. Thinking I'm scum because I've gone MIA for 12 hours is ridiculous. I have school every day until noon at least.

I've explained a few points why I think Vivax is scum. I'm going to be looking into Mocsta. His current attitude seems to be to find any acceptable lynch and that reads as scummy to me.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 17:02 GMT
#3916
Here's the bottom line, Shelvocke and Yamato possibly could be reclusive traitors, but it's highly unlikely. It's just best to assume that there's 1 scum left and that we need to find said person. And no, we're not lynching Yamato + shelvocke today... that's just nonsensical. Vivax is a must lynch; he's done nothing all game.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 17:53 GMT
#3923
On April 06 2013 08:29 Bill Murray wrote:
Artanis is scum with Keirathi
GG

On April 06 2013 08:36 Bill Murray wrote:
VE and Geript look bad over an associative tell
that actually changes my FoS

On April 06 2013 10:24 Bill Murray wrote:
FoS Restraining Order
VE is town and scum are trying to get a D1 lynch on him

On April 06 2013 10:36 Bill Murray wrote:
this looks like restraining order is chastising his mafia partner here
if RO is scum, so is OO

On April 06 2013 11:25 Bill Murray wrote:
palmar and caller are basically null because they are afk

On April 06 2013 13:03 Bill Murray wrote:
geript is yamato your top scum?

On April 07 2013 09:44 Bill Murray wrote:
I feel like RO and VE are mislynches
I haven't seen any contribution from Keirathi whatsoever
If he ends up doing something I like, I'll unvote him, if he doesn't, he hangs.

On April 13 2013 00:11 Bill Murray wrote:
yeah ill kill vivax

On April 13 2013 09:53 Bill Murray wrote:
i sent in a kill on geript
hope you all dont mind ^^

Not a sure tell but I think that this is a reasonable associative tell that BM tends to pair 1 scum with 1 town when he calls out 2 people.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 17:55 GMT
#3924
I think Shelvocke is likely town, but I prefer to lynch him than yamato honestly.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 18:14 GMT
#3925
I want to make a very simple point here:
Mocsta -- 28
Geript -- 18
Oats -- 17
Yamato -- 14
Vivax -- 10
Shelvocke -- 3
Sinani -- 3

The 3 most inactive players have been Vivax, Shelvocke and Sinani. We have a green check on Sinani and Sinani is a known lurker. Shelvocke we have no clue who he is. These are our best lynches IMO.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 18:24 GMT
#3928
I also really dislike the idea of lynching into Sinani today. Someone earlier brought up a game where he toughed it out despite the odds; I could to some extent see the possibility of that happening here too. While it does remove the possibility of a useful double lynch tomorrow; it also removes the possibility of him being able to vote rig tomorrow too. I would be very surprised if he got GF + double vote rig as that would be super OP imo. I think it's best to just take the simplest explanation that he's town.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 19:19 GMT
#3933
I'm going to be honest:
On April 17 2013 04:12 yamato77 wrote:
I'm also right in that none of what you guys are quoting makes me mafia, and all your cases are bad.

I absolutely hate this line. We're close to MYLO. Get to work. I know that none of the cases are amazing, but that is not an excuse to not put in work. We need to be critically assessing each others arguments and investing into the game. WE ARE GOING TO LYNCH SCUM TODAY PERIOD!!! Everyone needs to treat this as a whole new day 1. Work to establish your towniness and innocence. HUNT SCUM!!! PLAY TO YOUR WINCON!!! Dicking around won't help us any. No one is immune to this. I played like shit for the past 2 days. It's not important right now. Focus on working to critically assess; reinforce the good points people have made. Work to create POSITIVE TOWN ATMOSPHERE. We are ending it today by lynching scum. Nothing else matters. Everyone take your head and your dick out of the sand. Reassess. Reread. Post who you think is likely to be town and critically assess those who you think are likely to not be town to find the best lynch. gogogogogogogogogogogogo
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 19:53 GMT
#3939
Artanis mentions:
OO -- 0
VE --1
BM -- 0
This shows a mindset to avoid and never bus.

OO mentions:
Artanis -- 10
VE -- 8
BM -- 8
This shows a mindset to consider bussing

VE mentions:
Artanis -- 1
OO -- 0
BM -- 1
This shows a strong mindset to avoid other scum and never bus


BM mentions:
Artanis -- 10
OO -- 7 (plus some OO ones I don't want to try to count)
VE -- ~15+ times
This shows a strong mindset to not avoid other scum but not bus perceived scum assets
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:10 GMT
#3941
Artanis mentions:
Vivax -- 8 but most in defense of him as a town read
Yamato -- 5 and mostly critical
Shelvocke -- 5 times and mostly critical

OO mentions:
Vivax -- 5 mostly wanting to lynch him
Yamato -- 4 times mostly positive
Shelvocke -- 2 interactions mostly irrelevant
Also and odd post:
On April 07 2013 16:01 ObviousOne wrote:
Gonna read SNB and GhorVivax for now. ObviousOne not sure if Vivax comrade in arms or comrade in war.


BM mentions:
Vivax -- 5 times
Yamato -- 2 times
Shelvocke -- 2 times
On April 12 2013 16:25 Bill Murray wrote:
i just analyzed yesterday's voting, and all I can think about is how town vivax and MZ look after


VE mentions:
Vivax -- 1 time defending him
Yamato -- 0 times
Shelvocke --1 time but willing to lynch

When you add in all of their mindsets together, one thing that seems to be the common trend is that among the revealed scum who are more ready to bus (OO/BM), Vivax is mentioned the most and mentioned as a lynch candidate AND the ones who are the least willing to bus (VE/Artanis) Vivax is defended.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:11 GMT
#3943
On April 17 2013 04:55 Vivax wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 17 2013 02:55 geript wrote:
I think Shelvocke is likely town, but I prefer to lynch him than yamato honestly.


What makes you think Shelvocke is town, and why would you want to lynch him if you think he is?

Association among other things. However, if you'll note he's the #2 lynch candidate after yourself.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:12 GMT
#3944
On April 17 2013 05:10 yamato77 wrote:
Shelvocke clearly mafia.

Clearly.

I don't even need a case.

Just lynch him. I really don't give a fuck why you think I'm a good lynch.

I don't think you're a good lynch candidate at all. Can't you see that I'm trying to actively work to get your name off of the pedestal and keep Vivax and Shelvocke on it? I need your help here to do that.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:13 GMT
#3946
Then don't argue with them. Talk to me.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:14 GMT
#3947
What do you think of the points I've raised against Vivax both the association points and the previous points in my filter?
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:19 GMT
#3949
On April 07 2013 08:23 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote:
Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:
A lot.
I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe.

Multiple times you've said you liked the case and sheer +1'd it. You gave a minor rehash of the points recently, one which quite frankly missed a main point entirely. You've completely ignored any points against VE. You continue to try and distract people with this bullshit draft numbers even after people have pointed out that it's both bullshit AND after you admitted that in a previous game scum did exactly what you thought they wouldn't do.

Quite frankly, this is looking exceptionally similar to Vivax in LX where you were smurf hunting.
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:
2. Sno_Man, draft numbers please. You also have one of the best roles out there so it would be interesting to know: Is it KP-based or not (it likely is). Did you take a scumrole, a neutral or a townrole?

Congratulations scum #3.

On April 07 2013 08:24 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 08:18 Vivax wrote:
On April 07 2013 08:13 Sn0_Man wrote:
I picked 1,1 I'm pretty sure I shared that. I wasn't in any hurry to share my role, although I understand I might just die N1 on principle since scum know I have something good.



So you didn't deny a strong scum role since you say it's "good" and you didn't pick a survival role either cause you say you might die.
What is it then? KP? I doubt it's investigative. If it's KP you have no reason to not share your role with town, it can also backfire.

How is scum supposed to know your pick or assume it's strong?

Don't answer him. He's just fishing for information.

On April 11 2013 11:58 geript wrote:
Lol. Vivax totes scum.

Town Vivax = crazy, invested, doesn't care how he posts, doesn't give up random stupid ideas lightly and has lots of random stupid ideas
Scum Vivax = semi sane, lazy, drops crazy ideas, tries to look normal

Vivax not reading = lazy
Vivax proposing different lynch # picks to look active and drops it when blasted about it = scum
Vivax not showboating about being right on lynch # pick idea = scum
Vivax trying to make sense = scum

Sn0 calling Vivax worst mislynch ever = protecting scum buddy

GG town. Sheep Geript ftw

On April 16 2013 12:39 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 02:45 deconduo wrote:
Seeing as you are having trouble with this Vivax:

-I think X is scummy
-Y votes for X

You seem to think that means I should assume Y is town. This obviously completely wrong. There is nothing stopping Y being scum and X being town.

One of the major things I remember from the podcast about LX was that Vivax had a very odd argument about people who didn't agree with him were scum. It's an argument that he didn't use as Town in the Game from what I remember. But this summary which is pretty spot on IMO is a return to the "if people don't agree with you then they're likely scum" mentality that Vivax attacked deconduo for.

On April 16 2013 12:49 geript wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2013 02:55 Vivax wrote:
Scum always defend their scumbuddies yeah.

Just like OO.
Oh wait.

I find this an exceptionally odd quote. It's like he's very aware of when and how scum bussed. Then he looks for when OO bussed Artanis.

Show nested quote +
On April 15 2013 13:02 Vivax wrote:
Other incriminating stuff:

Yamato initially wanted to lynch these guys:
+ Show Spoiler +
On April 07 2013 15:13 yamato77 wrote:
Going to bed.

When I wake up tomorrow, I'm taking a look at this list of people:

VE
PALMAR
SINANI
MEAPAK
AUSTIN

One of them will get lynched.





OO deciding to bus artanis at this time:

+ Show Spoiler +
On April 08 2013 08:23 ObviousOne wrote:
British Empire Mini Mafia II [Town]:
Comfortable with 180 when confronted with new information
Openly questions his detractors
Sarcasm/teeth to his posts
Early game attention grabber with BS vote on Marv (wasn't even in the game) - not afraid of the spotlight
Direct/engaged mid-lategame
One of his post-game posts I believe he mentioned before in this game, that he was trying to change up his playstyle a bit:
+ Show Spoiler +
On March 09 2013 09:26 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Well, just reading the thread and getting reads off that is easy, actually doing analysis on players and posting it and trying to convince others, using meta, etc. is something else and it's not something you bothered with. When I did do so and people barely/didn't respond to it and still happily voted for me, it doesn't particularly make the game very fun.


Fruity Mafia [Town]:
First major thing that stands out to me is how he formulated this post. He talked about 4 other players then said ObviousOne looked bad (I really did, bee tee dubs):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17802815
He guilted me out of my scum read on Toad (Zessionar in that game):
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=17811235
Full of questions / interactions / poking
Was a town power role and got very bold D2 but town confidence overall was high.
Otherwise rather similar to British

TL Mafia LI [Mafia]:
Talks about things mafia would/wouldn't do (his example was scum don't make big slips)
Points out a big scum slip (lol see above)
Posts in a reassuring tone (regarding his own reads)
Attacked inactivity and claims
Post-game confessions:
Show nested quote +
On April 13 2012 14:32 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I'm surprised so many people thought I was scum, given that I would've done the same lurking as town given the size of the game. I would've posted more if I could but I simply got lost in all the traffic; def won't be playing another 30 player game. The only post that really tipped me off was the one ghost accurately called out, I don't think I would've made that as town but mafia IRC said it was a good idea. Given my early bus on VE after his claim I'd think after VE flipped I'd get a bit more credit too.


Characteristics I picked out from Haunted [2010]:
- Makes summaries {conglomerations of players posts} with blanket statements regarding alignment - I used to do this all the time especially in my earliest games
- Feigned/Real inactivity/unavailability - not necessarily a scum tell but a useful scum tool
- Offers to be "helpful" for a period of time - not taking the initiative and doing something useful himself
- Defensive stance - possibly a product of being under suspicion when being replaced in, but in this game was used to misdirect suspicion on lurkers to non-mafia faction

THIS GAME:
Dismissive in D0, not chasing shadows or anything really
Some concept of a plan presented, not really pushed
Not very inquisitive
Giant poop in the thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18226316
No real back-and-forth happening
Barely here

The OBVIOUS conclusion:

Scum

Spend way more time defending / deflecting than scum hunting, less interactive than his town games. By extension of this, he's missing that edge of sarcasm and incredulity in his voice that is present when he calls people out on their bullshit as town. He doesn't seem interested in getting people to re-factor their reads. Way too defensive to match his town meta in any way.

Added note: his filter is barely 2 pages and we've already been active for four real-time days if I am not fucking up my maths. Both scum game filters were short (less than 3 pages each) and showed him hiding by posting just enough to not be considered a lurker.


Suddenly Artanis is among yamato's scumreads:
+ Show Spoiler +

On April 08 2013 09:42 yamato77 wrote:
Let's lynch Artanis. The fact that the lynch has met resistance and people are arguing about other cases that are "scummier" is a good thing. I love information. OO's analysis of his meta is decent, and coupled with gonzaw's case, I could see Artanus as scum.

As for who to vig, it should obviously be sinani. If you read his filter, he posts opportunistically, and generally has little to say. One post in particular I called out as being especially horrible, the one where he gives his "thoughts" on the lynch candidates and is null on three out of four. I was scum with him in Red Team's Prize, and he's acting similar to that game, here his posting in the thread is quiet and not forceful. His "push" of BM as a vig shot is also terrible, because I actually have him down as likely town.

As for myself, since people seem to think I need to contribute more, meh. I gave the game the start I wanted and I have some decent town reads out of that, so as far as continuing a high level of activity, I don't feel that it's necessary. I'm doing my own scum hunting, and I make myself known throughout the day on where I'm at. If I drop off the face of the planet, feel free to shoot/lynch me, but I'm not going to be hyperactive in these games anymore.



Shortly after OO bussed, yamato adds Artanis to those he would lynch, without fighting for his own choices.


Not only that, there's reasonable soft defenses of multiple scum buddies.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:26 GMT
#3951
Explain to me why you don't find the association things interesting in the slightest please?
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:29 GMT
#3956
On April 09 2013 06:30 Restraining Order wrote:
Actually Vivax is 100% scum. Through and through.
Vigis, shoot the guy. If not, we lynch the guy tomorrow. I will not accept anything short of his cold, dead body.

So, in summary BOTH flipped mafia implicate him heavily. For Artanis it's on either side, for VE obviously not really since VE didn't actually post.

Summaries of both below, first comes Vivax' part, then the confirmed mafia's side.

VE:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 06:58 Vivax wrote:
Took a look at VE's filter cause he seems to be under suspicion. Liked his case, sheeping it.

##Vote: Restraining Order

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:08 Vivax wrote:
On April 07 2013 07:03 Shelvocke wrote:
What about the case on Restraining Order did you like?


A lot.
I would say it contains irrefutable evidence of someone not believing what he claims to be thinking is best to believe.

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick?

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 08:05 Vivax wrote:
Palmar mind giving out your numbers and commenting on VE's case?


VE's case is apparantly good, huh. I never knew.

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 07:58 Vivax wrote:
I'll read through a few filters and write down some thoughts on the go. Mistakes aren't unlikely in the process and not intended.[1]

1. Shelvocke just asked me about VE's case. That means he's well aware of it. Nonetheless he didn't comment on it despite it containing some very strong points in my opinion.[2] I would expect someone to put his scumread's case under more scrutiny and ask him out about it, not sidebump at people agreeing with it.
Ninjad, so:

On April 07 2013 07:42 Shelvocke wrote:
On April 07 2013 07:16 Vivax wrote:
Shelvocke what do you dislike about VE's case? Can you tell me your draft pick?


A lot of the points that he came up with, especially the "lol list scum" and the part about explaining why denying isn't a good strategy have nothing to do with Order's alignment and it appears as if he threw them in solely to inflate his post and make it look as if he is doing something.


The point about the denying thing was good. It showed that RO was arguing for a town NOT arguing about how to design role picks, which is not only bad in itself, but is also a way to discourage discussion. As for the lolist, yeah, that maybe wasn't a strong point but I can see VE throwing that in while digging through the filter.[3]
The point about RO apparently mixing scumreads with his 4/5 townreads still applies and has not been addressed by you.

[1]: "I'll make mistakes, but that's totally not scummy because I warned you! And if my opinions turn out to be bullshit, well it wasn't intentional, okay!?!?" This is just scummy and not part of the association, but I cba to repeat this later.

[2]: "I am suspicious of you for not commenting on VE's case" But that's not all he says with it, he AGAIN underlines how great and grand VE's case is.

[3]: So the case was awesome and everything, but points that are clearly just strewn in to inflate its size are merely "not strong". No need for concern guys. That's totally not something that should give a townie a pause while reading it, it's merely "not strong". And we of course can all understand the motivation for putting it in there, right?? Right??

Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 08:49 Vivax wrote:
RO's whole defense against VE's case was "lol", and Palmar still didn't explain what makes VE scum aside from activity (and I would like to see how he defines that one).

First part we've heard already I think. Second part is a blatant defense of VE. Quelle surprise.

Then, for a long time, he simply ignores VE.
Once it becomes clear that VE is a very real lynch target and he can do nothing to stop it, time for a tactics switch:
Let's soft-push without commiting to it!
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 23:11 Vivax wrote:
I'm also considering VE for lynch currently, I didn't see anything of what he promised so far, and his pushes are less than half-assed.

Show nested quote +
On April 09 2013 00:05 Vivax wrote:
On April 09 2013 00:02 Mocsta wrote:
On April 08 2013 23:58 Ghor wrote:
On April 08 2013 23:56 raynpelikoneet wrote:
On April 08 2013 23:49 Mocsta wrote:
Rayn

i saw your vote for VE.

Lay it out for me hunny

I forgot to vote him earlier in the actual voting thread. I think he is really unproductive and before the game started (during picking/drafing phase) he had really bad ideas that couldn't work. He's not doing anything and with the NRA thing on the table it makes him even more scummy because i know at least i am not the NRA guy.

I don't want to lynch Artanis, i don't think he is scummy. He didn't push his idea to the fullest but noone who were giving out ideas didn't do it. It was really obvious no idea was going to work because ~3/4 of the players straight out refused to contribute anything on the ideas.


Giving out your opinion on Artanis after Caller seemingly shot him is pretty useless, and scummy. Will you lynch Caller if Artanis flips green or not?That's what matters.

Nope

VE lynched today.. hes basically unkillable day or night (if NRA.. which as SnB pointed out seems likely based on his playstyle of trying to draw that attention)


That is too speculative at this stage. Use orthodox arguments please. We don't know if he has NRA, we don't know if geript's claim is true, we don't know why he doesn't post much (he's not posting much either in a parallel game).

I don't like how VE is playing but he's not the first guy I'd lynch today I think. RO, Sinani and Sno are my favourite targets.

He might not be the role he is, don't believe true things too easily!
I want to call him scummy so I look like I call him out, but obviously I'd rather lynch townies and have no intention of lynching VE! (yes, this translates to me giving both sinani and sno townreads, deal with it)


On VE's side there's not much, but there's something! Almost a miracle with that little activity....
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 01:29 VisceraEyes wrote:
In what way is this post

On April 07 2013 23:35 Vivax wrote:
Anyone else finding S & B scummy?


any different from this post?

On April 07 2013 10:06 deconduo wrote:
Yeah, after reading his filter again

## Vote strongandbig


You accuse Vivax of trying to "bandwagon" SnB but you yourself opened your "content" by similarly voting SnB with no reasoning. You accuse Vivax of not reading the thread, but somehow you missed the fact that gonzaw was scheduled for an earth-shattering scum-destroying case at the end of his countdown?

Palmar I'm quite interested in why you think decon is town. That feels kinda like fucking bullshit from you.

##Unvote
##Vote deconduo

Also known as: Where VE pushes a guy that's suspicious of Vivax.
Coincidence? I think not.
Apart from this, VE never mentions Vivax.


Artanis:
Show nested quote +
On April 07 2013 21:54 Vivax wrote:
Artanis still think geript is scum?

Comments on VE and his RO case?

Easy as shit to do interaction, asking basically for a "yes" and a +1.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 05:13 Vivax wrote:
Gonzaw, took a look through Artanis filter and his defense to your case, but I don't see stuff striking me as scummy. I thought he was scum in British for his defensive play, and the smaller posts can be explained through the lower motivation in a big game like he explained.[1]

You also mention a thing in your case where Artanis called out geript for giving out a controversial opinion to geript:

I just can't believe Artanis is serious with that accusation. It seems he saw something random from geript and decided to use it against him without even thinking about it, it's the only explanation I can find.


You don't believe he is serious with it, but it does indeed look...controversial from geript to have written that thing. I don't think you can hold that against Artanis for example outside of your belief that he wasn't serious with it.[2]

Or calling his aggressive behaviour fake. I don't see why you arbitrarily call it either aggressive or fake.[3]

I don't know if there's just a lot of confirmation bias in that case, gonzaw, but it didn't convince me, tbh it looks like you added too many extras to it :o[ [4]

[1]: "oh yes I totally looked at Artanis and I'm scumhunting and contributing, believe me. But I think a scum is town because [vague annotations about meta], thanks!" Further problems with this: He notes how he misread him in British as a reason for him to be wary of calling him scum. This is complete BS. Vivax has read me 100% wrong in EVERY game we have played together, apart from maybe LX if you want to nitpick, but ofc we were both scum there. DOES THAT MOTIVATE HIM TO REASSESS HIS READ ON ME IN ANY WAY? HELL NO. This is a textbook example of preferrential treatment. And of course, to top it off, he 'believes' Artanis' stupid excuse for not being active in an instant.

[2]: Highlighting the relevant part again: "I don't think you can hold that against Artanis". Of course not. Who would hold anything against Artanis?!?

[3]: "His agressive behavior isn't fake at all! Actually it's not even agressive at all! Actually it's not even behavior! Actually I'm not even town!"
Eh. You get the gist.

[4]: Case on artanis is, obviously, not convincing. Confirmation bias and such. Sure beans.

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 07:41 Vivax wrote:
On April 08 2013 07:37 gonzaw wrote:
Question: How do you guys feel about both Shevlocke and Artanis being scum? Do you think this is possible (even considering Artanis' vote of Shevy up there)? If so, what do you think the correct course of action would be today?


Also, Sharrant get your ass in here, take your vote off Keirathi and do something.
Yamato, tell us why you parked your vote on Palmar and did shit all D1. Yes, I know you are "suspicious" of Palmar from that case you wrote, but you've ignored everything about Artanis, Shevlocke, and everything else. This is not helpful and is NOT how you played in early draft phase. Step up
I advise those that have votes on "irrelevant" people with just 1-2 votes take a step back, analyze them and Artanis/Shevlocke/etc again, and then tell us if you will keep parking your vote on that irrelevant guy, try to actually convince us to lynch him, or take a stance on Arty/Shevvy and put your vote on an actual lynch.

RO, do you still think S&B is scum? You parked your vote on him and I don't remember you commenting on him at all afterwards. You haven't commented on Artanis either.

Like half the game is just apathetic towards everything. I wish I could just shoot you :/


Artanis is not the type who should be shot cause he does give a fuck about his image (as opposed to RO, for example). Go for trolls and lurky stuff.

Sno_Man, RO, Sinani, Caller. Not sure about BM but at least activity doesn't seem to be much of a concern lol. Not gonna cry over those if you shoot them.

"Artanis shouldn't be shot. Don't shoot scum. I'd prefer if you shoot trolls and lurkers instead."

Of course he wouldn't shed tears for dead townies. scumslip scumslip ololololololol (writing so much makes me bored, sorry about that)
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 23:04 Vivax wrote:
Did you guys even read which targets gonzaw considered for the shot? It wasn't Artanis, those were Shelvocke and Sno_Man.

RO either doesn't read or uses a WIFOM argument on a wrong base without considering all other options.

This is how gonzaw wanted to use his role initially:

I still don't get what makes Shevlocke scummier than Artanis.....like..did I miss a scumslip or something >_>
I mean, I get how someone can think of him as scum.....but I'm missing how Artanis looks better than him, and I'm missing that "he's definitely scum" way I feel about scum :/

I will say that the more Shevlocke fails to appear and contribute, the more I feel like I could shoot him as well.

I'm torn between sno and shevlocke (although Shevlocke is more of a "yeah he could be scum, but I'm not sure if he should be a lynch (because of stuff explained before); maybe straight up killing him outside of lynch would be better"), leaning on sno.


So if you gotta ride the WIFOM-train, putting it all onto Artanis is scummy as shit. See RO for details.

I want to lynch into RO, Sno, maybe Shelvocke, but need to get to a conclusion first, I found him kinda scummy earlier on. Sinani also looks bad. This is a big game, scum can hide, everyone having their eyes on the most active dudes should think twice about lynching them.

Wifom argument that the gonzaw shot doesn't implicate Artanis at all. You know who said the same thing? Oh yes, Artanis! Hmmm.

Going after Artanis is also scummy as shit, apparantly.

We've seen the rest a hundred times already by now, only now Shelvocke is included. Who Artanis is currently pushing. Who is clearly getting prepared for a full scum-team push on him here. Just FYI.
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 23:36 Vivax wrote:
If Caller shoots Artanis I'm not opting for anything but his lynch until he's dead.

Watch out Caller, you gonna get nightkilled.

There are some more threats to Caller about him killing Artanis, but I'm getting lazy.


Artanis' side of things:
Show nested quote +
On April 04 2013 23:11 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
If we're going to policy lynch I'd rather lynch Vivax.

Looks entirely unremarkable. It is. It's also never seriously considered or followed up on.

Show nested quote +
On April 06 2013 08:35 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 06 2013 08:27 Mocsta wrote:
On April 06 2013 08:17 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 06 2013 08:16 Mocsta wrote:
On April 06 2013 08:13 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Mocsta, it's not an association read. That just adds to the case. The post that really set me off was the one where he called you town but not really but town five times in two sentences.

Its association because there is no flip.

The association was, if Geript is scum; it goes someways towards implicating Keirathi as associated scum (you know, the stuff that was taken precedence over the past 2/3 pages, originated by Caller)

But I'm not using it as an association case at all, my main crux of the case was the post I mentioned which has no bearing on Keirathi or Caller or any of that. Look at that post alone and tell me if you see any town motivation in making it.

Geript is a difficult player to work with.
+ Show Spoiler [Geript fallacies] +
His second game on this forum (Mafia LX).. lets just say.. post-game, people decided he needs to be wrapped in cotton-wool.

Geript is not stupid; is aware of this perception; and realises to play it to his strengths.
Geript also has more balls than ppl give him credit for.

The other hard part is: his play is still developing.
He just played scum; so has more insight in how to blend in as scum; and also what he values are being a good townie.

I just wanted to point out here some context for a publicly considered "fragile" player - a reputation I dont think he deserves.


I think there is merit in what you have pointed out, and am paying close attention to his responses.

I also find it curious that when defending Rayn, he likes to point out validity in VE strategy as a basis. Soon he proceeds to call out VE for "working behind the scenes", and then later calls him out again for not scum hunting.


P.S. its sat morning for me, so I will be back in 10-12hrs.

So he's playing to his strengths by saying things that have no town motivation? Please explain to me how that works. Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM? If he's so aware of his perception, why does his posting history look so awful?

You've basically said in this post that he's better than people give him credit for, yet his post history reeks of scum. If he's good as you say he is then this should ring even more alarm bells. The point regarding VE you make only compounds that, so that makes me wonder. Why so noncommittal?

This doesn't actually say anything of value either.
Let's go full confirmation bias and say "Are you saying that like Vivax he rolls scum in 100% of his games regardless of his role PM" is an excuse to excuse Vivax' scummy behavior because he apparantly always does that.

Then his read/list post states:
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Vivax
Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town.

Oh a townread. Because Vivax is supposedly not playing to either meta, and is apparantly 'cooperative'.
What he forgets though, and continues to forget, is Vivax' scum play in LVIII. Which showed a marked absence of the raving moronic town Vivax we all rightfully hate. Guess what? This town Vivax is also not present in this game. But that little piece of meta will go ignored. Better not bring it up, and hope nobody else does.

*insert 2 one-liners repeating his above read I cba to quote*

Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that.

LX as the sole hallmark for Vivax' scumplay.
Aren't we forgetting a game?

Luckily, dandy dan is here for you.
Show nested quote +
On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
On April 08 2013 21:56 Restraining Order wrote:
On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I still want to lynch Artanis, more than ever. Fuck the stupid wifom defenses some of you guys come up with.

Solid case bro. Tell me, if you were in a scumteam would you need more than the reasons I underlined to shoot someone? Really?

It's not about NEEDING more. But if there ARE more, a mafiateam would gladly take it. In the end, this is a horrible point.
I understand why you want to argue it, since it goes against you strongly, but that doesn't make it a good one by any stretch. Au contraire.

No, that's dumb because if scum will shoot him 100% of the time for the reasons I stated then any potential extra reasons are completely moot.

On April 08 2013 21:43 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Also I looked up Vivax' meta, Oats. I don't think he's scum. His OMGUS on you and the fact that he didn't put any pressure on anyone in the early game other than that rubs me the wrong way, but he's been picking it up since then and showing the stream of consciousness that I'm used to seeing from a town Vivax. In his LX scum game he had a lot of small posts with no real meaning and large posts whenever he thought it was time to make it look like he was contributing. His posting style in this game is very different from that.

Did you read LVIII?


Let's talk about who you want to lynch instead of yourself.
You only defending yourself, it's getting boring.
Why are you not pushing Shelvocke hardcore yet?

I read LX and British Empire II.

So, when I'm obviously implying that he has played like he does this game exactly once before, and it was a scumgame, it would not do to check it and take a stance on that. Of course not.



So yeah Vivax is like, maaaaafia and shit.

Anyone remember this case? I'm going to be honest in saying that I didn't.
geript
Profile Joined February 2013
10024 Posts
April 16 2013 20:36 GMT
#3962
For the record here's the low down on what the Holy Hand Grenade did:
Kills a player of an opposing alignment (which also happens to be consistent with Justice Vigilante becoming Injustice Vigilante)
Had an unknown time limit as per PM

Combine an obvious not town BM (he lived and no scum died) and a red check, it makes it very easy to day kill him. If you don't believe me, here's someone you can believe:
On April 13 2013 04:28 Sn0_Man wrote:
@Geript:

You are digging yourself a hole here.

Previously, I wasn't sure what I was doing tonight. You could maybe have shot the person who checked you, or somehow arranged a plan that didn't involve you getting checked.

Now you are going to receive exactly what you requested: A 1-shot compulsive justice vig shot. Have fun with it (you will have an entire cycle to let it tick away in your hand if you want).

Feel free to concede now.

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