EPTOn April 15 2013 13:21 yamato77 wrote:
Shelvocke is worth a check, too.
He's even worse than Vivax.
Shelvocke is worth a check, too.
He's even worse than Vivax.
He was rolechecked as Vanilla. I guess an alignment check wouldn't hurt too, though.
Boardwalk Empire Mafia: Pick Your Power - Page 15
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
He was rolechecked as Vanilla. I guess an alignment check wouldn't hurt too, though. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 15 2013 13:41 Mocsta wrote: Sorry guys i know this is lazy and uselesss but i really cant remember the checks from Night 2. Can someone please summarise them? Night 1: I had a green check on austin. Austin had green+inventor check on sn0. S*B had green+America check on MZ. Vivax checked austin. You shot, so no check. Night 2: I had red check on BM. Vivax had green check on you. You had Vanilla check on Shelvocke. S&B had green+Vanilla check on yamato. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
+ Show Spoiler [From Artanis] + On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Here's my reads on all those who are voted. VisceraEyes Defensive play, agrees with a lot of things in the thread. Seems complacent. The only game I remember that I played with VE was LI in which he was in everyone's face as scum. I also observed his play in Hydra Mini Mafia which he gave up in as soon as he got caught. This game feels like neither. He created a bad case on RO. Rereading Geript's case on him however does show a few valid points that point towards VE being scum which he never answered. Rather than defending himself, VE started attacking people that jumped on the wagon which isn't alignment indicative to me, as it's a both a valid way of finding scum and an easy way to dodge responsibility. However, I don't like his 180 going from his initial read of RO to Deconduo over one post that really didn't mean much. Leaning scum. Vivax Vivax is Vivax. In all previous games I've played with him he's rolled scum, but sometimes the host accidentally flipped him green. This game I feel like he's playing better than any game he's had before. There's still Vivax moments of trying to be right where everyone else is wrong, but he's being cooperative. I see no reason why he wouldn't stick to his unreadable meta if he rolled scum. Town. Restraining Order The case on him was weak. Has done fairly little, but nothing that suggests a scum or a town mindset. Null on him. Keirathi Seems willing to want to figure the game out. Small thing that bothered me was that he had a plan regarding people picking roles to counter scumpicks, yet also advocating that everyone just picks the roles they want. Other than that, he's had a very constructive attitude and has been scumhunting and paranoid. Likely town. Palmar Has a hilarious plan, never actually goes anywhere with it. Trolls around all game. Throws a few accusations but never substantiates them. Says BM is scum but never goes anywhere with it, then jumps on the VE wagon as soon as he notices no one else is putting in the effort to get BM lynched. After checking out RED Team's Prize (where he was blue) he always pushed his own ideas. He asked people what they thought, but nothing that came close to sheeping. He's a lot more disinterested than what I've seen in that game. Leaning scum. Shelvocke His filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. Raynpelikoneet Contradicted my RNG plan without a real reason. Nominates himself as towniest very quickly. Calls everyone that pushed ideas town. Randomly passes by scumreads whilst only having talked about setup before then, doesn't explain why. Massive amount of oneliners that clutter up the thread and say very little/nothing. His paranoia and flailing about in the last two pages of his filter make me hesitant, but still leaning scum. Strongandbig Basically did nothing until mid D1, but I like this post. Pointing a lot of fingers at people for good reasons. Leaning town. Deconduo Playing a fairly timid game, but I can follow his thought process very well. It's hard to really put a finger to, but all his posts speak to me from a town viewpoint and VE's reason for voting Deconduo feels weak. I'm willing to vote for VE, Palmar, Shevlocke and Raynpelikoneet, with a preference for Shevlocke. On April 08 2013 18:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke is still my top priority. VE, Rayn, Sinani and Palmar are all lynches I would support as well. On April 08 2013 22:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote: I'm talking about the people that I'm questioned about. Shelvocke hasn't even replied to any of this: + Show Spoiler [He's responded to none of this] + On April 08 2013 06:57 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Shelvocke His filter is fairly empty. His D1 plan was "pick whatever you like" then never actually pushed it. Rather than contributing to plans, he just calls all of them bad. Spends a lot of time on setup talk then jumps on the VE wagon as well. He never replies to the case made on him or any suspicion laid on him at all. Avoiding responsibility for his reads. There's really nothing in his filter to suggest towniness. Scum. On April 07 2013 10:57 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: Alright so like I said earlier, I have a pretty strong scum read on Shevlocke and here’s why. What do these posts have in common? They are all worthless. Now this wouldn’t be such a problem except that he also has these posts: So there have been two options to speculate about worthless things so far (picking plans and who got what numbers), and shevlocke has jumped on them both. Does he have any reads? Thus far his one “scum read” is VE . His argument against VE is “he’s faking contributions by talking about irrelevant things” this is exactly what shevlocke himself has been doing which is ironic. So let’s quickly review, shevlocke has posted about both of the worthless topics the thread has discussed so far. On top of that, he accuses his only scum read of doing exactly what he himself is doing. Shevlocke is doing his best to blend in by providing “opinions” on the things that don’t matter and his one read is completely worthless. We’re not too far into day 1 but I want shevlocke’s name out there as a lynch candidate. On April 07 2013 11:43 austinmcc wrote: I'm actually really digging that Shelvocke read. Yes, most of the posts are worthless, but the VE vote feels weak as well. VE isn't reading/is faking a contribution. This can be scummy, but at this point in the game there are A LOT of players who fit that criteria. The second bit, VE being...hypocritical because he often is ridiculous and is suggesting people not be ridiculous is just dumb. I'm often an idiot. I don't suggest other people are. Some players are confusing/lurky, they don't suggest that other people be confusing/lurky. Heck, the VE personality in Personality 2 just poked at VE's claiming, which, if anything, should reinforce the idea that VE might not recommend to others that they play how he has in certain past games. Half that two sentence read is just...badwrong. The other half is true of a number of players, with no reason given why VE is singled out. And ze vote? 24 hours later. Not important because he didn't vote earlier, he couldn't, but important because discussion of VE has popped up here and there throughout the thread during those 24 hours. Shelvocke, who has really only called out VE at this point (apart from asking gonzaw if his secret scumread was snb (which he now adds to)), doesn't seem to care about anything that's been posted about/by VE during those 24 hours. Note that he HAS followed up on snb, looks to have reread snb before making that post. But his vote post on VE has more meat, more indication that Shelvocke is scumhunting, when he brings up snb, not VE, who he is actually voting for. Do not like. ##Vote: Shelvocke Since then, he's made a horribly reasoned vote on me. Randomly goes back to the Geript stuff which happened ages ago yet he never cast suspicion on it back then. He never even mentioned it. Randomly doesn't want to vote for me anymore because of WIFOM. What The fuck? None of this makes any sense as town. Randomly unvoting me because of WIFOM, randomly accusing Yamato of shooting Gonzaw when Yamato has been agreeing with Gonzaw, it just doesn't make any sense from a town viewpoint. He's been afk for the rest, and all the times he was here he's played scummily. On April 09 2013 00:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Sn0_Man is afk. Shelvocke is part afk part horrendous filter. I'd rather go for the second. On April 09 2013 03:10 Artanis[Xp] wrote: Welp, looks like I'm still alive. I'm fine with a VE lynch. Caller's obv not going to die today. Gonna place my vote and afk. These honestly feel like the typical "A bunch of townies are making a case on this other townie. Time to hope on the wagon" type of scum posts. The last one is particularly interesting though. Notice how Shelvocke was always his "strongest scum read". But as soon as Caller actually pulls the Showtime hammer, his top read switches over to VE. Why? IMO, it's because he knows that Caller is town and if he gets the lynched switched over to VE before the ability goes through, then when VE flips scum, he just inherently looks better. And, if Shelvocke was scum (since we know he's a VT), why not try to get the lynch onto him instead of VE? I think it's because Shelvocke is town and VE was the only possible way for a scum Artanis so salvage any town cred if Caller's shot was actually fake. Also, this little tidbit I find interesting: On April 10 2013 12:26 Shelvocke wrote: ![[image loading]](http://content.internetvideoarchive.com/content/photos/164/000692_40.jpg) I talk with my guns. ##Kill Meapak_Ziph On April 10 2013 12:27 Bill Murray wrote: in comes Shelvocke, being a hero If Shelvocke was scum with BM, he would have known that the shot was fake. However, it feels natural, not forced. I think BM actually thought Shelvocke was shooting MZ there. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
The worst part is that if I had just kept my big mouth shut for 10 minutes, geript would have shot me, I would be confirmed town, and we would have lynched BM anyways. And S&B would still be alive. The sad irony is that I'm the idiot, here  | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 15:01 Mocsta wrote: My problem with Kei is to do with In the hydra 1. i felt he was town instantly based on pressure applied in the game. i thought he was town based on thought process I never got any of that this game... the thought has a lot of credence. Instantly? You realize I posted like 10 times day 1 of hydra, right? I think I maybe called Witty scum once, at the end of the day. Other than that, I did jack shit. People kept referring to hydra in Red Team too with that same shitty example of why they thought I was town. Day 2/3 != Day 1. The mind just boggles | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 15:02 yamato77 wrote: Show some examples of this bad early game and we'll talk about it further. My day 1 reads were quite bad. It should be pretty easy to see for yourself  | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 15:10 Vivax wrote: Keirathi, since you said you're NKVD, you can choose as what to appear, what did/will you pick tonight? I sent in vanilla on day 1. I believe I already said that. I'm actually not sure if I have to send in a new role every night or not. I haven't been. I won't tonight either, but obviously that means nothing. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 01:06 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea, and as far as me being scum: Remember, I was the first of the cops to claim my actual role. We had 3 people claim cop checks...me, austin, and S&B. Vivax hadn't claimed yet. And remember, austin and S&B had both claimed alignment checks, S&B hadn't claimed his role check yet, nor had Sharrant claimed that he had tried to take DT yet. So, despite all that, I just happened to guess the right cop role that wasn't picked? So yea, its EXTREMELY likely that I am actually NKVD. If you want to say "Okay, I believe that you are NKVD because the facts don't make sense otherwise, but I still think you could have picked NKVD as scum." Then I ask you the question: why would I have? Yes, I have myself set up to return as vanilla to role cop checks (because I expected, and still sorta do, that scum probably took a role check ability if they took assassin). But if I was scum, why not just take Godfather, and get to protect one of my teammates as well? NKVD is strictly inferior to GF in every way. Also of note is that NKVD doesn't change your alignment to alignment checks, so an alignment check could clear this right up. Bolded relevant part, although all of it is pretty relevant I guess. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 15:50 Mocsta wrote: I also wondered why caller would be shot. as showtime; his power was used. he was in essence a VT. What was the value in killing him; with the janitor flip, BM could have "framed" ANYBODY. But he chose Caller specifically. This does give heavy credence to Keirathi being under pressure. What? Caller called me scum during the picking phase, but never followed up on it during the actual game. Night 1, after Artanis and VE flipped scum, he was interested in lynching rayn/sn0/you/Oats. I wasn't under any pressure whatsoever :o In fact, I don't remember a single person mentioning me all of night 1. Bad argument is bad. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:00 Mocsta wrote: So you forgot about Sharrant also adding in his 2c on you? Sharrant completely retracted his 2c during the middle of day 1. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
You making a random post about me during day 1 doesn't change that. If I was scum and you had been shot night 1, maybe someone else could make that connection though. But it doesn't make sense with your original hypothesis. And again: you were thinking it was fishy because of the night 1 shots and thinking they might have been because I was under pressure. And again, my point still stands that I don't think ANYONE mentioned me night 1. I would have to be completely sure, but I don't remember anyone attacking me at all. So yes, your original point is bad. If you want to make another point, then by all means, go ahead. | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 15 2013 16:10 Mocsta wrote: Ermm, my head is exploding. oats; yes, i found keirathi response weird. But i can't tell where you are at: im not sure the geript post you are referencing. I believe he's talking about the scumslip thing. On April 05 2013 15:52 Keirathi wrote: Err what? How is that in any way a scumslip :o You're seeing things that aren't there, IMO lol. For reference, the full quote. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 15 2013 16:14 Mocsta wrote: Im tending to think Geript/Keirathi are two townies going at it. We're not going at it. I don't think he's scum, and I am ignoring him, especially since all of these arguments are things I can't respond to anyway. Whether I am town or scum, nothing I could have done would have changed how that section of the game played out. He just refuses to see that because he is so tunneled that he only looks for what might make someone scum and doesn't care about what might make someone town. He did the same shit to sn0, and look how that turned out. | ||
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Keirathi
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Oats said "I was thinking the same thing [Keirathi] was. That geript's post wasn't a scumslip. [Keirathi] just beat me to it." He was responding to you calling my reaction fishy. Says he had the same reaction. | ||
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United States4679 Posts
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Keirathi
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On April 18 2013 12:35 Meapak_Ziphh wrote: like I PM'd him immediately following his death, nuking austin is legitimately the dumbest thing I've ever done here and I can't express enough regret. I was SO frustrated by that nuke. I thought austin was an amazingly good check; he had a reasonable chance of being scum based on the day 1 flips, and on the flip side, if he was town, he was one of our most active posters and thinking the hardest about the game, so giving him legitimacy would have helped to keep thread atmosphere up. Ah well | ||
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Keirathi
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On April 18 2013 15:41 geript wrote: Part of my reasoning for picking NRA was I figured it was a role that VE would strongly consider from either side and that if he took it then it would be highly indicative of his alignment dependent on how he acted. I think a more interesting method for PYP would be to have a list of all potentially available roles and once the draft order is set then figure offer people pods to draft from which are kept secret. I thought about a PYP game like that. Sort of like a "Single Draft" (ala dota). But I just couldn't figure out the logistics of how it could possibly work in a fun-to-play way. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 18 2013 16:28 geript wrote: Can people tell me what I obviously missed about why Kei was town? How do you find a way to overlook a bad early game to focus on the obvious other points? AFAIK most of the town reads basically just boiled down to meta reads. I was actively working to try to figure the game out and putting in a lot of effort, even though I was wrong quite often. Being wrong != being scum. Also, FWIW, if I was scum, I was really hurting my chances to win by calling everyone town all the time | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
On April 19 2013 00:18 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did people think geript, Mocsta, yamato and sharrant were scum after D0? I never thought the others were scum, but I can sort of answer Sharrant. I had a town read on him basically as soon as he posted that case against me, but after all the green checks and my stronger town reads, he just gradually moved down the list and I couldn't remember a lot about WHY he was a townread early. Part of that is because I got it stuck in my head that scum assassin would have to have a way to check roles because '##Shoot: gonzaw GREEN' is stupid, part of it was his reaction to gonzaw's death (the way he came up with gonzaw's role AND how he tried to call Moc scum for doing the same thing I did but not calling me scum for it), and partly just because he wasn't really active. When I made the case on him, he had a page and a half of filter in 100 pages of game. | ||
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Keirathi
United States4679 Posts
I'm assuming rayn was shot because you thought he was inventor? | ||
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