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On March 21 2013 00:17 VisceraEyes wrote: Kurumi was the catwoman in BCAC. He was a sassy bish that WBG made purr with the stroke of his hand. for like the first five months i was here i had kurumi and katina confused and thought kurumi was a woman. | ||
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On March 26 2013 07:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: I'll throw the first stone: ##Vote: prplhz for not following his own advice! I am so down with this On March 26 2013 08:22 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why do you assume i was serious in the first place? aww fuck calling it right now prp/ryan scum team On March 26 2013 09:00 Keirathi wrote: Nothing is "maybe" scummy. It either is, or it isn't. Which is it? this is stupid. dont be stupid. Anyway ##vote: prplhz - doesn't sound like normal town prplhz - he's proposing things to try and be helpful - doesn't follow his own advice - suspicious interactions with other players yeah i'm totes down with this. | ||
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if he really didn't read it we can argue about it in the banlist postgame. as of right now it's no different than claiming "I AM AMERICA AND SO CAN YOU" and typing ##Nuke Kurumi in the thread. it's stupid and stop talking about it and start talking about prplhz | ||
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On March 26 2013 07:39 prplhz wrote: Yo ho ho lets play some mafia shall we? Just a little reminder to some people and all people, something that was brought up in the latest podcast and that I agree with: it's a bad idea to have a 150 page thread after day1. Especially for a guy like me who probably doesn't even have 3rd grade reading level, it's really exhausting and it burns me out. So lets consolidate and not screw around too much. Yay! this doesn't sound like something prplhz would say and i think "not following your own advice for creating a good town atmosphere" is quite a strong scumhunting heuristic | ||
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that said there's obviously a reason that days are 48 hours long instead of 2. if prplhz shows up and starts posting again, i'm not gonna be like "you scum i ignore you booo". but as things stand now, prplhz should hang. | ||
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On March 26 2013 09:55 marvellosity wrote: So you're genuinely calling someone with 3 posts right at the start 'spammy'. Also prplhz often comes into the thread with generalised advice as town. In fact it's what he usually does as town. I know this because I researched a billion (yes, a billion) of prplhz's 'openers' in LIX when I was pursuing him as mafia. Please also elaborate on 'suspicious interactions'. Content per post ratio was low, they came in quick succession, and when you have just told the thread that the current state of the game is too spammy and bad for town, there's a different burden for what constitutes "spammy." When prplhz comes in with generalized advice as town, does he often explicitly disregard it almost instantly? Suspicious interactions - I don't like how that one guy was so quick to effectively retract his vote by implying it was not serious. Especially when he didn't unvote. This is obviously a really shitty reason to say prplhz is scum. You should focus on the real reason. But I wanted to mention it as it did influence my thought process. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:02 cDgCorazon wrote: I love how everyone: Actually believes that OO hasn't read his role pm. and Is now going to talk about meta reads even when Ace just posted a thread saying meta reads should not be followed. -slow claps- What is a meta read and why is this particular thing that you claim constitutes a meta read a bad piece of information to use? Why does your comment on OO help town or advance discussion? We've moved past that point, why try and drag us back? Y u so bad? | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:08 marvellosity wrote: How do you expect content to be high when he's the first person posting? There's also a pretty significant and large difference between making a couple of posts at the start of the game and spamming in general (how Dandel plays, how I played in Personality). I'm just genuinely staggered you believe in what you're saying here. But do carry on. If he was going to be true to his ideal, he should either have apple posting and waited until someone said something he could comment on in a worthwhile way, or he should have made an effort to do some legitimate analysis on something that was in the thread. You should always be making the best case you can make, even if best isn't very good yet. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: S&B: I never said i wasn't serious with my vote. I asked marv why does he assume i am serious. Something he also failed to answer. Don't split hairs. You never said your case wasn't serious but by jumping to its seriousness as soon as Marv criticized it you quite strongly implied it wasn't serious. | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:16 cDgCorazon wrote: It's my opinion that we shouldn't read too much into OO's role pm crap. I've already called out Rayn for being scummy, at least that has some decent thinking behind it. I call him out and then he goes afk. Coincidence? I think not. Answer my questions about meta reads | ||
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On March 26 2013 10:44 Dandel Ion wrote: It is entirely irrelevant how "easy" something is to do. What matters are the hard things. Why are you trying to imitate blazing hand trying to imitate his own meta? Everyone plz discuss dandel ion. | ||
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On March 26 2013 12:45 Grackaroni wrote: I don't like the case on Dandel Ion. He seems to troll regardless of alignment so there's nothing in there that points to him being scum this game as opposed to just anti-town. @ISH Why didn't you bother to look up a town game of Dandel Ion? u scum bro? | ||
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you third party survivor or something | ||
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On March 26 2013 13:12 strongandbig wrote: yeah man you didnt even call me scum when you thought i was being stupid you third party survivor or something that was @marvellosity | ||
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On March 26 2013 14:38 Oatsmaster wrote: Because it was stupid and SnB isnt stupid. Like somethings you can brush away by saying that this dude is dumb, but some you cant. It looked like he wanted to try and mislynch prp and now its gone HORRIBLY WRONG. So he disappears. Insertsmurfhere is not scum I think although dandel is null for me. (YAY RANDOM READS OUTTA NOWHERE) So oats I'm glad you think I'm smart. I'm pretty good at atomic physics, it's true. Seven years ago I also got 36/36 on the ACT and 1600 on the real part of the SAT (fucking writing section). So okay suppose I'm smart. Do you really think that means I can't make a bad case? Or that I can't think a case is good for reasons that other people disagree with? If you really want me to I can point you to past games where I've made cases that everyone else said were bad. I was town in those games. When I'm sum I don't make bad cases, I just don't make cases. Do you really think I was settin up to "try to push a prplhz lynch" singlehandedly, in a game with people who have much more "mafia rep" than I do, and who have much more time to put in than I have? That doesn't sound like a "smart" thing to do. (Pro tip if you look in my filter you can even find out what I was actually doing and why! Treasure hunt!) | ||
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On March 26 2013 21:16 Acrofales wrote: Because he takes some stuff which is not indicative of alignment at all and calls it scummy. + Show Spoiler [keirathi's case post] + On March 26 2013 15:08 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I'm much more interested in Grack right now. I wasn't particularly awed by Palmar's vote/case and Hapa's input, but his interactions afterward have been much worse IMO. He doesn't call out the bullshit vote. He panics, and questions it to figure out what he did wrong. I don't know any townie who reacts to a random vote on themselves by saying "OH GOD WHAT DID I DO?" Some get mad at the 'bad' play, some ignore it completely, and some vote the person back. But, even more than that: He's looking for a way out. He doesn't volunteer information, he wants to know what information Palmar wants, so that he can give the "right" answer, rather than a "real" answer. And finally: The bolded points feel like more "oh crap, I re-read my posts and realize I made some mistakes. Time for damage control". Like, he was already looking back at his posts to see how they LOOKED. His first reaction was to apologize for how they were perceived. THEN he explains himself better. It betrays his mindset of caring about his appearance. How can you say that this stuff is not alignment indicative? "Caring more about looking townie than actually helping town" is like the *definition* of alignment indicative. I'm seeing a lot I don't like from acro at the moment. Also yeah I've been getting uber shat on but it would be cool if prplhz showed up sometime in the next few hours and posted some stuff. There's quite a lot that he could actually comment on now productively and without unnecessarily cluttering the thread again. | ||
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On March 26 2013 23:56 Acrofales wrote: Because that's not at all the way I read those posts. 1. Keirathi says this is a scummy response. I don't see why. Palmar places an unjustified vote, and Grack asks why. Null. 2. By focusing only on the second sentence, Keirathi transforms the meaning imho. I read it as "BRING IT. Anything in particular you want to talk about?" This doesn't mean he won't talk otherwise. Anyway, insecure people looking for guidance from their town reads is not a scumtell. Hence: null. 3. Admitting failure. Yeah, still not scum. It's simply an approach to playing the game. Seen plenty of townies, and scummers, do this. Null tell. And that was the entirety of Keirathi's fantabulous case. Big fucking load of bunk. I agree with you on the first quote. It's null. I don't agree on the second quote. Here's a different interpretation: Asking your town reads for advice is fine, but that's not all he does, he also claims that nothing in the thread so far has stood out to him as worth commenting on. That's what makes the rest of it scummy. At the point people had posted enough in the thread that he should either have been able to identify something worth commenting on, or at least identify players who were posting a lot without providing any content to comment on. At the very least, he could have commented on my case on prplhz. And I don't know if oats had made his case on me yet at that point but he could have commented on it. Accepting that people sometimes look to guidance from their townreads doesn't mean that going up to the person making a case on you for not talking about substance and saying "what substance do you want me to talk about" isn't scummy. And I really don't get much of a "bring it" attitude from that first sentence. And for your third point, I see what you're getting at but I don't entirely agree, I find myself more in line with keirathi's interpretation when i look at them in the context of the filter as a whole. I guess now that you explain yourself, I've changed my mind about your reaction being out of touch/weird, but I still don't agree with your interpretation. + Show Spoiler [@marv] + On March 26 2013 23:56 marvellosity wrote: This is still cracking me up. I'm trying not to post unnecessary stuff but I just found it too funny. Ouch marv :p I was gonna just post this by itself when I saw your post: On Never strongandbig wrote: i am going to not post unnecessary stuff, and totally ignore this. but then i thought, wait there actually is kind of some protown motivation for not posting rando stuff, i'll just save this and spoiler it at the end of my next real post. | ||
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Keeping the thread clear, readable, and coherent (AKA "not spamming") has been a major topic of discussion. It has reverberated in offhand comments, in the way players have said they are interacting with the game, and explicitly in pressure put on various players. The only player to completely ignore this and keep to his "spammy meta" has been dandel. At this point, for him not to notice the difference between how he is interacting with the thread and how everyone else is would have to take a conscious effort. The scum motivation for this is obvious. Long, unreadable, spammy threads hurt the town. Dandel is choosing to play in a way that hurts town and helps scum. That's not okay. | ||
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On March 27 2013 01:36 marvellosity wrote: What 'pressure' do you propose exactly? He's either mafia or he is not mafia. Whether you approve of his play or not, do you think he's mafia? If so, why? If not, what are you trying to achieve here? Right now, I'm null on his alignment. I want him to change the way he's posting. The longer he continues without changing it, the more likely that he's doing it because he's scum trying to mess up our thread. So the 'pressure' is less of a "I SAY YOU ARE MAFIA NOW REACT/DANCE FOR ME" and more of a "you are doing this thing that has a clear scum motivation and no town motivation, stop doing it or I will be forced to conclude you're doing it because of the scum motivation rather than without thinking about it." | ||
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On March 27 2013 01:59 marvellosity wrote: "Your town meta is scummy and I will want to lynch you if you continue playing like you normally do as town" ok s&b. What's wrong with this logic? Spam is bad for town. Everyone else is making an effort to interact meaningfully with the thread rather than spam. Why can't we ask him to change his methodology and play in a way that is better for town? | ||
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prplhz could you comment on the grackaroni cases as presented variously by palmar, keirathi, and others? Who do you think is the best lynch for today? | ||
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On March 27 2013 06:14 Hapahauli wrote: Ok I expected a bit more resistance to a guy you were convinced was scum than that. I'm with you here. On March 27 2013 05:58 ObviousOne wrote: In the interests of having meaningful discussion about today's candidates, I would like to see everyone take a stand on who they think should be up for lynch today so we can talk about the candidates and not miss out on the opportunity to hear from people who are in opposite time zones or not able to be in the thread at various points during the day. We're coming up on the halfway point of the day portion and this is the optimal time to switch gears and makes for a good opportunity for any lingering cases yet to be made to get posted in the thread before votes are stuck in useless places due to not being around. Original post regarding Grack: + Show Spoiler + On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote: Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down? Dot points outlining why I think Grack is scum: + Show Spoiler + On March 27 2013 03:13 ObviousOne wrote: You just don't have a handle on how I play. Marv understands me better. This is how I do. When I talk about something, it's typically because it's either worth replying to or the person I'm talking about is a scum-read of mine or someone I'm interested in getting a better read on myself. There's no reason to talk about townies except in passing and/or when referring to cases. I thought Kei was scummy yesterday but he's looking better today and I have dropped it. I'm hedging my bets on Grack being scum - responded to Palmar's pressure by giving Palmar a town read instead of an alternate lynch proposition - no substantial positions taken outside of calling Nisani's train of thought scummy - a lot of posts but little of any intent - seems to have known better than discuss my meaningless intro post but continues to talk about it for several posts instead of simply shutting down the conversation as pointless My vote is currently on Grackaroni. I like this initiative. Here's mine: I could lynch either Grack or Nisani at the moment. | ||
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but anyway older peoples like marv and acro - why is palmar talking so much on day 1? at first I was like wow palmar cares about this game guess he's town, but now i'm just sort of like wtf is going on. do you think he's just super town or what? | ||
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On March 27 2013 22:51 Oatsmaster wrote: He was wrong about Grack and I was right. That should not happen. He pushes Grack 100% day 1, like when he is in the thread, thats basically most of what he talks about aside from smurfs bad case and stuff surrounding that. Really fucking weird post. Its just weird. Like what. This post is not weird, there is a very good point. | ||
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On March 27 2013 12:55 ObviousOne wrote: Yeah I'm actually starting to lean scum on Rayn myself. The seed was planted earlier in my second post when I said that it was possible a tired Rayn could have scum slipped. I don't recall a response to that particular sentence I pointed out, but then again I didn't phrase it as a question. For reference: Moving forward in the filter, I see him having scum reads on me and several other people I would consider town at this point.: I'm more null on Nisani but the rest are more town than scummy to me right now. So let's look at what he's brought up against his proposed alternate lynches: Look at the bolded/red sentence above, in particular. He's giving his full reasoning but he's doing it BEGRUDGINGLY. In what game do we begrudgingly give scum reads? That's pretty scummy to me on its own. Not demonstrating a town mindset IMO. The reads themselves are pretty meh. The only possible original thought I see is his stance on Oats but that's not a difficult thing to do given how easy of a target I feel Oats has made himself. Finally, resignation: 5, count them, five possible targets for today's lynch. That's a whole lot of suspicion for so little build-up. "Let's just lynch anyone!" How about no. Not gonna do pretty formatting but I really don't like this post. I won't do pretty formatting because I'm on my phone, but there's a few things: - "the seed was planted" etc - there's no reason to include this in a town case, but scum want to establish "hey guys I'm being consistent". Makes the case implicitly about "I'm town and making this case on my scumread" as much as about actually persuading us his read is scum. - one of his key arguments is "he has bad reads / scum reads on people who everyone thinks is town." We all know this is a terrible argument, since what really matters isn't who the reads are on, but whether the reasoning for those reads demonstrates a town mindset. But saying "look who he thought was scum everyone disagrees with him so he must be the scum" makes sense as a scum case, it attracts the attention of those people and makes the case easier to sheep. - I also don't really agree with the "begrudging" part, I think when a townie feels hectored he can be plenty begrudging but scum would hide it. But that's less of a reason this case is scummy, and more just a reason I disagree with it. | ||
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On March 27 2013 23:16 Oatsmaster wrote: Do you know marv? I guess not. Well thats sad I guess. SnB, please explain why Palmar threatening to lynch Acro if he isnt actually vanilla townie a good point? Also Kenpachi rule makes Palmar scum. TOTALLY. Dudes. sheeping needs to commence. Nope | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:08 Acrofales wrote: Fuck it, Hapa. I don't have time to reply properly, but your case is terrible. You give absolutely atrocious meta reasons for Nisani being town, by showing how he is playing the same as his town games. Guess what, he is playing the same style as his scum games too, because that's the way he rolls. What I did was show how his play was anti-town... not similar to how he plays as scum, but actually anti-town. THAT is why Nisani is scum this game, not some horrid meta argument. You then use your absolutely terrible confirmation bias to say that because Nisani is town, Sinani is scum, because he didn't see the meta argument. Fucking /facepalm. So yeah. Nisani is scum. Lynch him. Don't care about the rest. soooo baaad acro is scummmmmm | ||
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On March 28 2013 05:45 ObviousOne wrote: Not a fan of this scenario we are in right now. Of course nobody listens to me. Standard. "i told you so guys if you'd listened to me we would be so much better off right now guess i'm the towniest townie around" just like that case from before. | ||
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lets do it | ||
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marv's argument for why sinani is town seems pretty compelling and i want to lynch somebody if at all possible | ||
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On March 28 2013 11:49 Hapahauli wrote: @ SnB Can you describe to me how you go from "ACRO = SCUM"... ... to oh hey I'll vote the guy that he's pushing... no worries! so i haven't gotten up to date with the thread yet but i thought i would answer this part there's a few things. (1) when I made that post criticizing acro, I wanted to draw people's attentions to the post that I quoted and express that I thought it looked bad. If I had a strong overall scum read on acro, that would be a singularly bad way of letting the thread know about it. (2) Even if I did have a strong scum read on acro, that doesn't make his arguments invalid. I could be wrong, and statistically probably I am; he could be bussing; etcetera. Like, if I really thought acro was scum I should pay extra attention to his arguments in order to analyze his point of view in them. (3) You're kind of misrepresenting the situation with the voting as well. Acro's participation in the nisani push had little to do with my decision to vote for him. I explained my reasons in the post you quoted - the only realistic lynch options were sinani and nisani; I was kind of persuaded by Marv that sinani was more likely to be town than sinani, and I didn't want a no lynch, so I voted for sinani. so yeah | ||
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(1) he threw his vote around at the start of the game but most of his filter just feels more "focused" than I would expect. One guy at a time, really pushing. This is what I would expect out of either a town-organizer type or a bad-townie who thought he caught a scum slip, but acro doesn't fit either of these models. This is also what I would expect out of a decent scummer. (2) the reasoning for voting nisani was scummy as fuck - "ignore your terrible meta arguments, he's being anti town!" There's nothing actual scum love more than Ace's patented "you're hurting town" lynch. (3) he keeps using the word "Scumspect", I want to cut a hole in that word's flesh and dildo it. (4) one of his three big bullet points on why ish is scum is that his reads have been wrong. again, super scummy logic. On the other hand, there is some stuff I like in his filter too. Specifically, i feel like his suspicions on marv made sense, as did the fact that he backed off them a little bit when marv got more involved, and the fact that he still hasn't backed all the way off, as he well shouldn't. | ||
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On March 29 2013 05:11 prplhz wrote: i might be wrong but i think sinani cohosted palmar's first game (which was also my first game) okay back to reading yeah i forgot you and sinani and nisani because you tend not to say many things. well mostly that's true for them, idk why i forgot you. w/e | ||
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Forget the retarded backandforth about his meta, here's why: (1) the case on ryan was super scummy, both the tone and the reasoning. (2) he's been grubbing for towncred, going back in his own filter and pointing out where he's been right to make sure we all know it, and doing things that are typically "townie looking things that don't help town." example: he posted that big block of bold text about consolidation, then completely dropped it when no one but me responded, then when we were looking at the last minute for someone to lynch, he quoted his own big block of text and was all like "this town sucks right now" (3) most suspiciously - just look at the amount of effort versus content. He's putting a lot of text in the thread about how he's filtering this guy and that guy, how he's doing so much analysis, etctera. He's written all that text, and what cases or arguments has he actually made? A couple bullet points on Grack, and that terrible scummy case on Ryan. That's it. So yeah that's who I want to lynch tomorrow. | ||
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On March 29 2013 05:59 Acrofales wrote: I'm used to you being biased against me, but I'm not used to you being this bad at it. 1) Nonsense. 2) The meta was rubbish. You should know, you've played with Nisani. He has a very similar style as both scum and as town, so trying to give him townie points for style is rubbish. That Hapa was right in hindsight doesn't change the fact that the meta was rubbish. So that leaves "what have you done and why have you done it this game?" which I thought was scum motivated. 3) My scumspects are scumspicious. 4) /facepalm. You didn't even read that bit did you? The main point of that bullet was his dodgy reasoning for voting for Nisani. 1 is just a gut feeling, im not expecting it'll persuade anyone else. but 2 is not nonsense. Hapa was making specific distinctions between how nisani plays as scum and how he plays as town, and you were just brushing them off with the non-responsive argument "he's lazy and scummy looking as both alignments." That's not a real thing. as for 4 i assumed the sentence with the big bolded colored words was more important than the supporting sentence which followed it, my bad. you still made the argument that he's scum because his scum reads have died and flipped town. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:07 ObviousOne wrote: This one wanted to literally last-minute vote switch to me 10 min to night post. Just a reminder. Is that what he always or just for the players he is incapable of discerning awful play from versus scum play from? ah now we have the "my play was scummy because i am bad" card | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:12 Hapahauli wrote: Okay, defend ALL THE THINGS. That's cool and all, but who else would you suggest for a lynching? What reason could you possibly have to not disclose your reads right now? maybe he's a DT and doesn't want his check to get framed? Maybe he's scum and is going to kill you so he doesn't have to answer your question because we totally aren't going to make him answer this exact same stuff whether or not you're dead? maybe he thinks scum will kill him if his reads are correct? (this one is unlikely) | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:09 Acrofales wrote: My problem with calling SnB scum outright is that I don't see that much difference between here and Personality. He was slightly more confident in his reads, but SnB is never particularly active on D1. If he starts giving good insights from now onwards, then he's probably town. If he keeps doing nothing except calling Drazerk and me scum, then he's scum. When he's scum he is eternally butthurt over HRM. When he's town he eventually gets over it. this is actually pretty accurate. being butthurt over hrm is a really good excuse not to have real reads when im scum. the drazerk thing is not alignment indicative though. i will rage at him as either alignment. it's like we have a special bond <3 | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:15 ObviousOne wrote: So you're Dismissing that your last minute vote switch attempt to me didn't have any real drive or purpose? FotM is tasty after all. if by "last minute vote switch attempt" you mean "one sentence" then yeah it didn't have much drive seeing as how it was only one sentence however it did have a purpose - just to get people thinking about you and how you're probably scum | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:17 Hapahauli wrote: With the DT thing, you should almost never check your scumreads or people you think you can get lynched. You should be checking null reads. Whaddya think of our buddy prplhz anyway? well he doesn't look particularly great, but it feels like it's because he isn't going out of his way to do conspicuous things that would garner towncred. like, i prefer someone who just plays and doesn't try super hard to look townie over someone who really focuses on how he's perceived. Also, it's true that he's kind of bumping in and out of the thread at random, but when he does it seems like his positions make sense and i can see where he's coming from. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:30 ObviousOne wrote: 1) how was my tone scummy? I wanted to push a lynch I believed in. Wade Fell is my hero in this regard, I want to be the BH someday. 2) grubbing for towncred? - pointing out where i'm right? please tell me how the D1 lynch could have went more poorly if we had started consolidating and making the late D1 cases halfway through the day instead? - did I say this town sucks? I don't recall insulting everyone in the game 3) effort versus content? - well since my early reads were bogus and I never talked them out, I've taken Keirathi's advice to heart and am willing to TALK ABOUT SHIT before I go full throttle on someone - calling my cases bad right at the end (there's your "bad play versus scum play" response from me) He's essentially claiming that my tone makes me scummy. That's what this boils down to. this doesn't actually answer my points. 1- I explained why the ryan case was scummy in an earlier post and my filter isn't so long - the weird "seed" thing aka the "look guys i'm so self-consistent" stuff is the thing that stuck out to me the most. 2 - that's not what i'm referring to. 3- this point isn't something i can really learn more about by talking to you, it needs other people to read over and see what they think of my interpretation. | ||
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On March 29 2013 06:59 Keirathi wrote: In case I die: strongandbig: Has literally done nothing. Completely overplayed the "Dandel is spamming" thing, and spent half of his filter talking about it. The biggest thing, though, is his scum reads. He's literally only had 2 the entire game (grack and Nisani), and both were 100% sheeps. He even came in and argued with Acro while I was asleep about why my points on Grack were valid. Then said "I could lynch either Grack or Nisani". Did nothing to push either one of them though, and when the day was winding down, what does he do? Sheep onto ME. Not try to get the person lynched that he's ostensibly been saying is scum. He's just flowing with the course of town sentiment. lol normally i dont like to omgus but what about the whole prplhz thing also what about the recent post on OO, did you write this up earlier and then not bother to update it? | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:01 strongandbig wrote: hapa did you take a hit? On March 29 2013 07:02 Hapahauli wrote: Oh I was attacked then healed. wheeeeee niiiiiiiiiiiiice | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:08 ObviousOne wrote: I'm voting for Sinani and SNB. lol k | ||
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On March 29 2013 07:10 ObviousOne wrote: I called in the thread first so people don't lose their shit again like when I vote first LOL not why i was lol'ing | ||
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well the fact that scum shot hapa and palmar obviously makes me wonder if marv is scum but other than that I always have a hard time reading him, and it's especially hard to tell whether or not he's town now because if he is town he would be behaving differently from normal anyway because of the personality stuff. so basically, null but def on my list of people to look more closely at. | ||
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On March 29 2013 10:20 marvellosity wrote: Of course, I suddenly have 4 votes. Of course. | ||
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In other news, lets discuss a hypothetical situation for a minute: Marv apparently lists someone as one of his top scum reads but hasn't actually read or thought about that person's filter. Does that make Marv scum? I feel like town Marv would just be honest and say "I haven't read filters" or "I don't have any strong scum reads right now" instead of pulling them out of his ass. Tbh current Marv reminds me a bit of "this setup is imba so I'm just gonna stop giving a fuck" Marv. That means scum Marv. | ||
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I am a one-shot medic more specifically, I am a "vanilla townie who is also a one-shot medic." I targeted Hapa last night. I knew from asking Kurumi that I would not get notified if Hapa was saved, but Hapa would get notified, hence the post I put up right after the deadline when I saw that only one person was dead. I thought there was a decent chance that I had guessed correctly. That's why I asked Hapa specifically if he had taken a shot, before there was any indication of missing KP. (I posted that even though Palmar died because I was already expecting scum would have 2KP; in my experience it's pretty common in 16-player games for scum to have more than 1 KP (either from factional KP or some from factional and some from roles, but since 1KP is "balanced" for 9player games, 16player games usually have more than 1).) Now that that's out in the open, I can explain a few things. (1) The part of my post that Marv was confused about was a direct reference to this. There's no way that Marv misses this stuff in my filter if he actually is trying to analyze me and determine my alignment. I intentionally made it kind of oblique but clear enough to anyone who thinks about it for a second and is decently intelligent, because I was planning to claim anyway but wanted to see who was actually paying attention and who wasn't. So yeah that's what I mean when I talk about Marv calling me scum but not actually paying attention to or thinking about my filter. (2) (I was planning on claiming regardless because I can't use my power again and having two confirmed townies on day 2 is worth more than making scum wifom over whether their shot was blocked by a medic and whether that medic could go again). (3) I can also explain the stuff with Acrofales's claim earlier. When Grack flipped, he flipped a role with no powers, but with a specific rolename written in blue. I am a "vanilla townie", my rolename is written in black, but I do have a power. (before someone jumps on me, my role PM includes the sentence "you win with town" so I'm not accidentally claiming third party VE-style here). So I thought it seemed likely that all of the "powerless townies" had specific role names written in blue, and all of the "town power roles" were "vanilla townies who also have ____ power" with the role name written in black. Then when Palmar went after Acro for his claim of "vanilla townie" with the role name written in green, I thought it meant Palmar had a similar role to mine and had come to the same conclusion about how role names work in this game. Obviously when nisani flipped, it proved all of this completely wrong. But hopefully this explains some weirdness in my filter. | ||
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with a green name | ||
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On March 30 2013 01:24 cDgCorazon wrote: SnB, why did you choose to save Hapa? marv, hapa, and palmar have the best reputations as scum hunters in this game, meaning they're the most likely night 1 shots it's true that hapa's reputation isn't on the same level as marv or palmar but it's still better than anyone else in this game plus hapa was playing a very openly townie game, much more so than either of the other two likely n1 shots - he was cajoling people to participate, trying to organize people around lynch time, and keeping the thread moving and organized - so i had a stronger town read on him than i did on either of the other two. i had a weak town read on palmar based purely on the fact that he seemed more engaged than i would have expected from scum palmar, but my town read on hapa was stronger. plus, what town palmar brings is scumhunting skill, which is useful, but i thought what we really need is someone to organize and lead town and hapa was already doing that and i wanted him to keep doing it. | ||
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On March 30 2013 01:30 Hapahauli wrote: Ding ding ding ding that's worth townie points? seems kind of like an obvious thing to think | ||
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are we not supposed to talk about the color of our names in the role pm's? I've always understood that the rule was "we can describe our role pm as long as we don't post it, screenshot it, or directly quote large parts of it." | ||
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what happened between the end of day1 and the start of day2 that changed your read on obviousone? He was your main suspect most of day 1 and you posted a case on him (and I still think he is scum) but at the start of day2 you voted for smurf and sinani | ||
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On March 28 2013 15:53 InsertSmurfHere wrote: Really, this seems like a bullshit reason to be calling me mafia. On March 29 2013 03:12 InsertSmurfHere wrote: So basically, people REALLY think I'm mafia because of how little I've scumhunted. That's easy to fix. More coming after the dealine, in 11 hours from now. i can get down with a smurf lynch but can someone point me towards the best-made case on him, just so I can fully look into it? | ||
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marvellosity Oatsmaster Acrofales Dandel Ion Keirathi raynpelikoneet strongandbig cDgCorazon Hapahauli prplhz ObviousOne InsertSmurfHere | ||
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On March 30 2013 08:14 marvellosity wrote: nothing, it's dull and i've already deleted 3 posts about it but it's just not interesting enough for me to type about. Sorry. Okay cool ##vote marvellocity I get to do that bc I'm basically confirme town right now Otherwise I'd accuse myself of acing you | ||
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To acro: if you are town, you should absolutely explain the mechanics of your unlynchable role. Allowing us to waste a lynch on verifying it if we don't have to is nearly as bad as if you got mislynched yourself. To me, the motivation to explain yourself is so strong the if you continue to refuse, I'm going to have to assume you are lying and scum. | ||
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On March 30 2013 23:29 marvellosity wrote: In other, fluffy news, my other half got me (among other things) a TL hoodie for my birthday. Woo! Sounds like you're a bit less grumpy today  I probably shouldn't have been teasing you so much. But in all seriousness marv, it's been over a week since personality - promise you'll stop pretending to not give a fuck if you get lynched? | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:49 Keirathi wrote: If you dont want to test the unlynchable claim, who do you want to lynch? If acro doesn't say anything more about his claim (I want role name and color and flavor, all powers, how exactly his unlynchability works, how we can get rid of him if he really is unlynchable) - if he doesn't give us those, I want to lynch him because his reticence would make me think he is scum. But if we believe him, we shouldn't be lynching him to confirm him as town. If we believe his claim, we should try to use our extra lynch on people we think are scum. Especially because I very much doubt that there will be a second-place lynch redirection, since this is majority lynch and not plurality lynch. I think insertsmurfhere is a good choice for the other lynch. | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:55 Oatsmaster wrote: Thoughts on Rayn everybody? Considering he flipped scum in Newbie XXXIX One scum game does not a meta make (have you read the postgame comments in The Game thread?) I don't think it should have much impact on how we evaluate his play this game, unless there are specific things people were seeing from him which they thought "this specific thing wouldn't come from a scummer," and he did those specific things in that other game. | ||
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On March 31 2013 01:59 Keirathi wrote: Yes yes, we already have a majority on Smurf. Who would you lynch beside him if we don't lynch Smurf+Acro. I haven't been persuaded by the defenses of obviousone, I still believe he could be scum for the reasons I described during the night phase, so he would be my next choice. For a second lynch, I guess I would have to say sinani? I've found the cases on him from both sides to be just sort-of persuasive, so I feel like he's kind of a coinflip but my other choice would be marv and I don't think I'm ready to actually lynch him just yet. I haven't looked at oatsmaster yet though, he's another possibility in that I haven't seen anything from him that makes me go "oh he's town", but it seems like no one has very strong scum reads on him that I've noticed so maybe people who've played with him more have done some analysis. | ||
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On March 31 2013 02:03 Oatsmaster wrote: Not considering that he flipped scum in Newbie XXXIX. Are you deliberately ignoring the question? Lol no, I'm deliberately saying I don't think it's a good question. I think unless someone was predicting a town read on him on certain things that they thought were "town tells" but that he did as scum, then his alignment in that game shouldn't have a big effect on analysis of him in this one. | ||
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but i will do it anyway, i guess it cant hurt | ||
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On March 31 2013 07:01 Hapahauli wrote: rofl what a retardedly imba role yeah its a pretty dumb role specifically in this game, it completely annuls the double lynch that palmar had like we didn't even get anything in the thread saying that it was acro that used it. at least now we know marv is town lol | ||
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sinani206 marvellosity Oatsmaster Acrofales Keirathi raynpelikoneet strongandbig cDgCorazon Hapahauli prplhz InsertSmurfHere So if there are 4 scum, either two out of the group (sinani, oats, prp, ryan) are scum, or else keirathi/corazon are scum. | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:34 Oatsmaster wrote: Acro is dead, right. Hmm. Something to think about is why Acro/scumteam chose OO and dandel ion instead of Kier or Cora or marv or hapa, who I would definetely consider first before those two. Rayn, explain your role fully please. Also possibly when Acro switched the 2 lynches, that meant that he instantly died. Which means Rayn is bullshitting and is scum. Honestly the weird stuff he posted after he 'killed' Acro is just really weird from a town point of view. He wasnt happy he killed scum, he was happy he shot? And kept asking for people to counterclaim him. That just does not come from a townie. SnB didnt do it. List of posts following the Acro shot [spoiler] [spoiler] Clear emphasis on someone counterclaiming him. So fucking weird Ok. Look at his 'fake claim' timing. That was ~3 days before the shot. This is like 2 days after his 'fakeclaim' right? Reading this I would think that Rayn had a townread on Acro. The first mention of his scumread on him is So high high suspicion on Rayn at the moment. This kind of rings true to me. Why the emphasis on counterclaiming? And what is the explanation for the grack shot? (Unless someone thinks we have two different town dayvigs). And why didn't he shoot acro before he could kill two townies? | ||
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Alternate possibility: scum KP is 2 until one member dies, so when acro died their KP went down to 1. Prplhz, why did you use your power for a non-confirmed only-sort-of check on scum instead of to give town a gun? Marv and I have both claimed that we are vanilla townies, did you ask kurumi what would happen if our role claims are correct and you target us? | ||
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First, prplhz if your role works as claimed then how were you "unsure" whether you killed palmar? After the flip you should have known that your power would've delivered a bullet to the head not a gun. At that point, I'm pretty sure the logical thing to say is not "maybe I killed him". Second, I don't buy the explanation for choosing palmar. You're saying you chose someone who you had no read on, just to see what would happen? And that to do this you chose palmar? That makes much less sense to me than the alternative, scum explanation. Third, if we hypothesize that marv's and my roles were phrased the way they are because of the interaction with prplhz's role, what seems more likely - that it was done to make a town prplhz more powerful or to make a scum prplhz less powerful? Okay that was three things I guess. | ||
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If we assume that five scum in this setup is unlikely, then that means oats and prp are likely to not be scum together. So we can test both their role claims at the same time by having prp target oats. If prp is lying and oats is telling the truth, oats won't get the gun.get the gun. If oats is lying and prp is telling the truth, then oats will die. If both are telling the truth, then we have oats with a gun and we can tell him who to shoot with it. | ||
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On April 01 2013 17:19 Oatsmaster wrote: Prp. GIVE ME A GUN. PLEASE. I WANT A GUN. To shoot marv. Hehe. Hapa, apparently he targeted smurf day 2 and smurf didnt die. So im assuming that a goon is the same as not having powers. Ok. Marv thinking that I am scum/not defending me, is a scumtell for him. In themed, I got mislynched by BH cause marv didnt defend me and I was asleep. In every single game where marv is town, IE personality/MTG, he defends me and such. Here he doesnt seem to care. Dude.  So at this point I want to shoot marv. Or sinani. Scum claim? | ||
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Hapa could be scum without me on his team if he saw my post "Hapa did you take a hit?", immediately guessed that I was a medic and had protected him, and either guessed or found out really quickly that medic save targets get notifications but the medics don't, and then fakeclaimed that he'd been shot and saved. That is unlikely because (A) I find it hard to believe that mafia targeted 100% of their KP at Palmar, and (B) Hapa has been playing townie as fuck. I could be scum without Hapa if scum decided to shoot Hapa and simultaneously medic save him so I could claim the save and get town cred. Tell me how likely you think that is. So Hapa and I are extremely likely town. Keirathi and Corazon literally have to be the same alignment. They claim their role PMs tell each of them that the other one is town. Since it is unlikely that there are 5 scum IMO, they are probably town. Additionally, while I haven't found Corazon's behavior particularly townie, Keirathi's has been quite town-looking since he was almost lynched imo. Marv is confirmed town. OO's role says he 'gets extra information about the setup' but that he can't reveal that he has extra information or else he will be modkilled. He told us he knew marv is town, but couldn't tell us why or he would be modkilled. Seems quite clear to me. Also, marv claimed the roleblock on a night when there was no scum KP, and no one claimed to have taken a hit. However, Prplhz and Ryan both have unconfirmed claims. Additionally, their claims are roleclaims rather than actionclaims that confirm their alignment (like my medic save and marv's roleblock). Ryan's claim to have shot Acro would confirm his alignment, except kurumi won't answer this question from Keirathi: On April 01 2013 01:14 Keirathi wrote: Maybe we can clear this up: @Kurumi: On March 31 2013 07:22 Kurumi wrote: Obviously, you are going to use that only once, because people are pretty angry that they are getting killed and rigging them more than once would result in your inevitable death Does this mean that Acro *could* use his power twice, but that would kill him? On first read through, I assumed you were just saying it was a 1-shot power because using it twice would be suicide, but please clarify your wording. We will find out more information about prplhz's claim when we see insertsmurfhere's flip. If he flips something other than VT or mafia goon, we'll know prp is lying; if he flips one of those things, we will know no more than we know now. But oats, what makes that post a "scum claim" is the part where you say you want to shoot marv, the actual confirmed townie, rather than sinani, the confirmed scum. It basically means you aren't actually thinking about the claims and are instead just trying to throw out anyone you can as a possible alternative suspect to yourself. | ||
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On April 02 2013 23:43 prplhz wrote: because it's a complete bullshit role. have you ever seen a role that informs people that they were shot when they weren't shot? Have you ever heard of a medic where the saved person gets informed but the medic doesn't? That seems odd to me. Theory: kurumi didn't make rules for notifications beforehand, and is making them up as we go along. I agree that it seems odd for a target to be informed of a failed shot at them, but we have no reason to doubt it, as for that to be wrong both oats and Ryan would have to be lying together. However, this is a closed setup, and as the The Game fooferaw has shown, you can't rely on your speculation about how a role probably works when the setup is closed like this. | ||
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On April 03 2013 06:08 prplhz wrote: snb if you use your oneshot doc on someone who isn't hit, is it refunded? no it doesn't | ||
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On April 03 2013 07:01 Keirathi wrote: Okay, rayn does have a point. IF prplhz is scum, AND he's telling the truth about how his role works, BUT he lied about his target from last night and gave a gun to sinani instead of Smurf, then scum could possibly kill 3 people tonight. But if they do, then that means we lynch prplhz tomorrow instead of sinani (so that prplhz doesn't get ANOTHER blue snipe shot off), because we know that sinani is in fact a vanilla scum. you forgot and if scum have two "vanilla" in a game with this many town PRs | ||
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On April 03 2013 08:16 marvellosity wrote: rayn going balls to the wall claiming mafia this phase so i thought that but then i remembered how hard oats "claimed mafia" during the day phase with his own similar paranoid dont kill me stuff. so now i'm not so sure it's alignment indicative as opposed to paranoia indicative. that said, ryan i don't think your stuff makes sense. the only reason prp giving the gun to smurf instead of sinani would have been "claiming scum" is if sinani had been non-vanilla mafia. however, your path to town losing relies on prp giving a gun to sinani tonight and sinani using it - ie, sinani being vanilla mafia. those two are incompatible. | ||
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On April 04 2013 03:15 Hapahauli wrote: If we lose this game on power roles, then w/e. We found the scum, and if the setup prevents us from killing them over and over again, then I don't really care. the problem with that is, we actually had really good power role usage. Marv and I each blocked scum KP with our one-shot roles each night. There has only been one scum NK the entire game. | ||
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If we leave him alive, and prplhz kills sinani and the game doesn't end, then we can be sure that he's mafia. If we leave him alive, and prplhz doesn't kill sinani, then we most likely have a prplhz/sinani scum team. In that case, we have to try and work out some deal with ryan where he doesn't kill any townies tonight, then we lynch sinani, then he kills some masons but leaves hapa alive, then he kills hapa right before the lynch on prplhz, securing both town's and his win conditions. Finally, there's what I think is the most likely scenario - if we leave him alive, and prplhz kills sinani, then the game ends. I think "three scum plus one townie with an anti-town win condition and a shitload of KP" is stupid, but makes more sense for a setup than "four scum, one of whom has a shitload of extra KP", plus I'm kind of leaning towards agreeing with Keirathi's analysis from the last page or whatever. | ||
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On April 04 2013 04:05 marvellosity wrote: it actually raises the question of why he hasn't day-vigied Hapahauli this cycle. if he is mafia, then the reason not to day vig hapa is that prplhz would be town and would night vig him asap. | ||
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On April 04 2013 04:10 marvellosity wrote: there's no guarantee prplhz's gun would kill sinani. None whatsoever. okay in the hypothetical situation where prplhz is town and sinani is vanilla scum, then say we lynch sinani tomorrow and he flips vanilla scum. Next night, prplhz kills ryan, and we still win because prplhz plus either you or I are still alive even if ryan kills all the masons somehow. Or, if scum NK's prplhz and he flips town, we know to lynch ryan tomorrow, and we still win. | ||
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at least we didnt lose we'll have to laugh at sinani post game | ||
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On April 04 2013 07:03 Keirathi wrote: I've been giving hints a lot longer than that, sweetie <3 yeah no you guys made it pretty obvious | ||
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I feel like this was an all-around win - scum really only needed one or two more mislynches after the vote rigged double lynch. Key elements to the victory - good "town atmosphere" leadership by Hapahauli and a generally productive town that made it impossible for Yamato and sinani to stay hidden; bauss job catching acro by keirathi; and the accumulation of five (!) confirmed townies due to marv and me winning the world wifom championships on consecutive nights, as well as scum's curious blindness to keirathi's lovers claim. | ||
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I like the idea of having three different classes of roles as a way to balance a themed game - ie, the "real vanilla" roles, then the "fake vanilla" roles, and then the real blue roles. I also really liked how prplhz's role interacted with the rest of the setup, in that it rewards prp for figuring out roles, and adds another level to claiming / fake claiming. Two things I don't like. First, I don't like the way obviousone's role worked out. The concept is fine and actually quite clever. However, I think the prohibition against letting people know about the extra information has to go farther - you can't be able to say "I know this thing but I can't tell you why or else I'll be modkilled." That doesn't leave anything unclear, because the only way a player could get that kind of information without getting modkilled just for having it is if the information comes from the host. Plus then when he dies, you can just go to his filter and look for what he said he knew but couldn't say for fear of getting modkilled. IMO it should be harder to figure that out. That said, his role didn't actually matter this game, because Marv confirmed himself with his roleblock before we ever would have lynched him, regardless of OO's extra information. Second, I don't like how kurumi came into the thread with the "to modkill or not to modkill" stuff. That made me a lot more trusting of Marv's claim than I otherwise would have been, and while I tried to ignore it, there's always some subconscious bias. I think there was nothing wrong with what Marv said; if you're going to put roles with certain naming conventions into your game, you have to either give scum appropriate fake claims, or else you have to make the role names confusing. You can't expect people not to claim their role name and color, those are just basic things, and the "role pm rule" is there for things like comparing PM times and the wording of rules clauses and flavor text. That aside, if there's a question about modkilling for stuff that gets said in the game, it has to be made by the host outside of the thread, maybe in consultation with other hosts on irc or skype, but it needs to be outside of the game or else it will influence the game. | ||
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On April 04 2013 23:21 cDgCorazon wrote: GG guys. Kei never said anything about lovers before the end of the game. He explicitly said that if we claim we would leave out the "lovers" thing. By the time he had hinted enough towards it, we had the numbers. Thanks to Kei for having to deal with me as a mason partner, and to Kurumi for hosting ^^ He said the thing about Marv's plans maybe not working out before the end of day 2, and as soon as he said that it was obvious what was going on. If scum had been paying attention they would have killed one of you with one of the day2 double lynches. | ||
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On April 04 2013 23:33 Kurumi wrote: OO did not get info that marv is town. You can check what would he learn in the "Roles!" section in the spreadsheet: He was given info that there are only 3 Mafioso N1. Hahahahaha holy shit what Wow OO that was a fucking ballsy play then. Really gambling all-in on the Marv town read. | ||
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strongandbig
United States4858 Posts
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