RED Team's Prize

On March 26 2013 07:39 prplhz wrote:
Yo ho ho lets play some mafia shall we?

Just a little reminder to some people and all people, something that was brought up in the latest podcast and that I agree with: it's a bad idea to have a 150 page thread after day1. Especially for a guy like me who probably doesn't even have 3rd grade reading level, it's really exhausting and it burns me out. So lets consolidate and not screw around too much. Yay!

On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:


Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^

On March 26 2013 08:23 Dandel Ion wrote:

Is he, though?

Maybe that's all just in your head.

On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:


Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^

##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne

On March 26 2013 10:34 Keirathi wrote:

Because it doesn't matter a single bit how he reacts because the case was built on false information. Hell, if I was scum, I would love nothing more than for someone to make a case on me that I could so easily refute just by posting a few quotes from my previous games that wouldn't even be hard to find.

The point of making "cases" isn't to convince the person they are scum. They are to convince everyone else that someone is scum.

Plus, S&B was asking for opinions about his case.

On March 26 2013 10:41 cDgCorazon wrote:
@Rayn: Who is the scummiest player here so far and why?

On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote:
==Some thoughts on today's action==
+ Show Spoiler +
Broken out, preserving the interaction above:

I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing.

I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town:
If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that.

I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia:
If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.

---

I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread.

So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason.

(An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent.

Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think?

On March 26 2013 20:35 Palmar wrote:
rayn I have a reason to lean very slightly on town on you. Please consider lynching Grackaroni instead of this lynch.

On March 26 2013 08:11 marvellosity wrote:


Just curious how you'd react given you totally overreacted to prplhz. I can join Hapa on his policy lynch though, so you're in luck ^^

##Unvote
##Vote: ObviousOne

2. Marv isnt getting lynched day 1

On March 26 2013 21:46 Oatsmaster wrote:


But you arent marv.

Is your point is meta read? Or just based on what you would think you would do?

Also policy lynches are useful in the fact that OO is more likely to start playing as both alignments instead of being useless.

On March 26 2013 21:55 Oatsmaster wrote:

Isnt that what you are doing with marv? Other than the fact that your vote isnt on him which is a moot point.

On March 26 2013 21:58 Oatsmaster wrote:

Mainly cause these 'mafia gods' as you called it, dont do shit that leads to them being policy voted?
And when they do, they get policy voted, dont worry.

Most of the time, its because its not that difficult to figure out their alignment when they start to post more.

With random dudes, its harder because you arent as familiar with their playstyles.

On March 26 2013 21:43 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I have one problem with marv. He pressure voted me early on in the game. When i asked his what's up with the ninja vote, he posted this:

If he really thought i overreacted to prplhz why wouldn't he pressure me more? Was the "what's up with the ninja vote" somekinda secret townie answer i gave?

If i was marv and i thought someone overreacted to something and i was already pressuring him, i would definitely keep the pressure on to try to find more clues about their alignment. Here he just completely drops the issue and changes his vote to a policy target (which i do not see serving any purpose in finding mafia).

On March 26 2013 23:25 Oatsmaster wrote:


Like how I want to lynch SnB for a bad case and not smurf? deal with it.

Do you have town reads on both of them?
If not, then why arent you asking me what is differerent instead of insinuating that I am scum.

On March 26 2013 23:34 Oatsmaster wrote:


Ill tell what is different for me in a short bit.

But what makes SnB different from smurf for you?

On March 27 2013 01:13 marvellosity wrote:


The fact is that rayn has brought new things to the table too; his analysis/vote of OO's second post, or Oats' apparent contradiction with the prplhz/Dandel cases - and indeed something came of this.

Being active, suspicious of many people, and aggressively questioning are not what I think of as mafia characteristics.

He's making a whole bunch of bs reads and only scratching the surface with the arguments that he has made. It's all smoke and mirrors to look like he is scumhunting when in fact he is only creating chaos.

On March 27 2013 01:22 cDgCorazon wrote:
You haven't attacked anyone? Really?

+ Show Spoiler +

Really?

What I see here is lots of accusations but nothing behind them (although the Marv suspicion was decent, I'll admit that).

On March 27 2013 01:47 Oatsmaster wrote:


I would like to add that quoting your own posts makes it seem like you are talking to yourself, and that confuses me...
Lotta stuff has been thrown around but who is the n1 candidate people want to lynch?

ANYBODY?

On March 27 2013 01:55 cDgCorazon wrote:
Scratching the surface = throwing out baseless accusations and not following them up

I also love how you leave out your random feelings that Oats and Smurf are scum. Way to only answer the points that I might not be right on. That is ridiculously scummy.

On March 27 2013 02:46 ObviousOne wrote:

Oh. That's cool. Carry on then. You don't have to try to convince me I'm scum. While you're here, summarize your feelings about Grack for me, 'kay?

On March 27 2013 02:47 cDgCorazon wrote:


I never said your case about OO was not detailed or followed up. I said it was the only one that wasn't a random accusation.

If it's total bullshit you would tell me why all the points are total bullshit, not just the ones that are decently easy to push to the side. "Oats and Smurf are scum because they are scum, you idiot" isn't a defense.

On March 27 2013 04:45 Nisani201 wrote:

He never looked scum. The case he made was scumbait, it didn't catch anyone, he backpedaled, and now he's contributing to the thread.

On March 27 2013 04:59 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn are you going to call me scum or not? I asked you that about 16 hours ago and you still haven't answered.

You've said all this shit about how I'm suspicious but you haven't said I'm scummy. There's no way there are as many scum as people you have called suspicious. Where do you draw the line between acting suspicious and acting scummy?

On March 27 2013 05:01 ObviousOne wrote:

Why did you ask me about him being scum if he wasn't a scum read of yours?

On March 27 2013 05:04 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP:

To add, it reads to me like you are potentially looking for support on lynching people who are suspicious of you without calling them scum. You are also indirectly defending Grack by having me consider him as a candidate today.

On March 27 2013 05:05 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP: (sorry for triple)

To finish the thought, you're really just defending Grack outright without giving me a proper alternative and I don't like it.

On March 27 2013 05:11 Oatsmaster wrote:


Get off your ridiculous reasoning and tell us why other than 'go look at my filter, I cba to explain it to you'
If you dont know specifically why or if you cant concisely put down a few reasons, how could we think of these people as scum? (yes it includes me, no thats not the point)

On March 27 2013 03:04 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Cora, you have essentially one read that you've fleshed out, and that read has met significant resistance with the thread. Why don't you give a read on a different player? I know you are capable of this as town, I saw it in Duel. Hop off your tunnel train for a minute and realize I want something more alignment indicative out of you than this attack on rayn.

On March 27 2013 06:16 cDgCorazon wrote:


It's a bit weak but I need to get out of this mindset where I tunnel people. It's my biggest flaw in town play. I'm suspicious of him still, but he's done enough not to land my vote so far (he's started to consolidate his reads a bit more and hasn't acted as paranoid).

I wanted to pressure Yamato anyways. He's basically being hypocritical when he's calling me out for not scum hunting.

On March 27 2013 01:22 cDgCorazon wrote:
You haven't attacked anyone? Really?

+ Show Spoiler +

Really?

What I see here is lots of accusations but nothing behind them (although the Marv suspicion was decent, I'll admit that).

On March 27 2013 06:27 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn why are you attacking me alongside others? This is another play of yours that is annoying the crap out of me.

Don't follow thread sentiment, do some actual thinking.

On March 27 2013 06:49 cDgCorazon wrote:


Perhaps not at the same time as Hapa and Marv are getting on me.

You're just trying to kick others while they are down. I wouldn't have said anything had this been the first time.

On March 27 2013 09:40 Acrofales wrote:

Despite having been around, I believe this is the first game I am playing with Palmar. I cohosted Hero and he was fairly active as town on D1... at least active enough to make a cool video and cause scum to get lynched.

He seems involved enough for the moment and get the impression that he is actively analysing the thread. Even if this latest bluehunting stint is stupid.

In case he's scum, he will lose interest in the game, as scum Palmar always does. If he maintains an active interests and keeps directing town, he is most probably town.

On March 27 2013 10:43 marvellosity wrote:


I said it because there were people in the thread at the time discussing those 2 lynches in particular. Go back and check.

Your other point that you don't know who I actually want to lynch is valid. Work in progress I'm afraid.

On March 27 2013 11:05 marvellosity wrote:


So, you said Grackeroni was likely town earlier. Or at least the case was bad and "Palmar is on the wrong track".

Let me guess - you think I'm soft defending/attacking my scumbuddy so you're voting for him?

On March 27 2013 23:51 Oatsmaster wrote:


How is my Palmar read 180?
I 180 acro. yes.
Why is 180ing scummy?

On March 27 2013 21:28 Oatsmaster wrote:

So you didnt think he was scum?
You dont sound like you were gonna push Grack today.

Now who would you lynch after that weird nk?

And yeah with anonymous vig, scum probably shot but thats not really the point.

On March 27 2013 22:59 Oatsmaster wrote:


Im inclined to think not scum because he looked like becoming mislynch number 1.

[Speculation Incoming]
The reason why it wasnt claimed its cause
1. Dude flipped town, its embarrassing
2. The dayvig can do it again/has other powers

##Vote: Palmar
Marv why arent you sheeping me?

On March 28 2013 00:02 Palmar wrote:


That's a stupid question.

On March 28 2013 00:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Bleh all I know is that this lynch is not going to come easy. Too many scum candidates and too little time.

I do think Palmar's reasoning for why Grack's shot does not make him scum is valid. It really does not make sense to tie yourself to voting for a person and tunneling them, then go on to shoot them. Doesn't make sense.

Acro is a bit of a harder read. I really cannot tell what he is playing right now, so I won't vote for him on D1. Too much confusion to risk a vote there. I'm worried that Marv is his top scum read, yet he only gave superficial reasons as to why Marv is scum. Marv's defense seems in line with him trying to play a better game, plus his stupid mini-tunnel of me feels way too much like Personality for me to be suspicious now.

Smurf still needs to commit himself to actually scum hunting and not bouncing around multiple targets. Right now he's looking most likely to get my vote.

Prp, now that Grack is dead, can you stop beating around the bush and give us actual reasons as to why Acro could be scum? A vote for anything would be nice too.

On March 28 2013 00:27 cDgCorazon wrote:


No, I said it doesn't make sense that it would be a town shot and no one claimed. Do you want to do some thinking for yourself, or will I have to do it for you?

On March 28 2013 00:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
Scum/Third-Party shoots Grack=No one takes Palmar seriously/Palmar gets lynched

Town shoots Grack= They thought Grack was scum?
Please give me town motivations for killing Grack. I'd love to hear them.

On March 28 2013 00:45 Oatsmaster wrote:
Also this nice Palmar irks me.

People with experience with Palmar, does he get nice when people suspect him as town?
Seems really weird.

Rayn I thought about the shot, made more sense to come from town.
Anyway, I 180 all the time, hehe get used to it

On March 26 2013 14:08 ObviousOne wrote:
==Some thoughts on today's action==
+ Show Spoiler +
Broken out, preserving the interaction above:

I thought about this sentence for a while. I probably thought about it for too long. It might even be nothing.

I thought about what a Rayn might be implying here, assuming town:
If we emphasize the "don't" and following parenthesis, the implication here is that Rayn is calling out Kei for shutting down a potentially useful avenue of information. Okay, I get that.

I thought about what Rayn might be implying here, assuming mafia:
If we emphasize the "given that you" portion, we get a scum claim.

---

I don't know Rayn, and I can't reference the only other recent game since it's ongoing, so I want to say it's believe from a town mindset as an accusation against Kei derailing SNB's poorly constructed case. The alternative is a tired mind, ready for sleep, just posting for the sake of posting and literally claiming scum in the thread.

So this interaction took me to Keirathi's filter where I found myself in a land of opinion-less posts and pseudo-random votes. This is not the town voice of Keirathi I remember from the Hydra game we played in together. It reminds me more of the safer and more timid Keirathi of 6 months ago, which was a safe way to play... the only town points in his favor IMO are that he derailed SNB's case for the right reason.

(An addendum for later--) It's demonstrably fact that Keirathi has essentially defended prplhz by attacking SNB's case which says nothing now about them individually but should be remembered in the late stages of the game if it's still pertinent.

Right now based on signal-to-noise ratio of Keirathi's filter, I'm calling him scum. What do you guys think?

On March 27 2013 02:37 ObviousOne wrote:

Whatever your bullshit question was got buried. CBA to find it until I get to a desktop computer. But you're wrong about me being mafia. I don't feel bad about not answering your case because I feel no need to defend myself from you. I'd rather discuss Grack since he is using me as an opportunity to sheep town sentiment on a player who (and you're going to love this) always looks scummy D1 (me!)

On March 27 2013 04:43 ObviousOne wrote:

Cora's seemingly trying to get you to settle on a target with his tunnel and I don't have a good handle on his alignment since he could be serious about lynching you (which I disagree with doing). If I take his vote as intent to lynch then he's looking scummy to me for tunneling my town read. Maybe all you have to do is focus a bit more. He said in the following post that you have attacked 6 people, but that's actually stretching it a bit; perhaps that's how you get your information, via attack rather than discourse. If I assume you do it all via attacks then his argument is that you are being town you. If I assume you combine the two I would really like to see some more general discourse (such as asking me this question)


See if you can change his mind with your actions, he might just be a good candidate for tomorrow if this continues.

---

Whereas Grack is literally making shit up about me to get me lynched.

On March 27 2013 12:55 ObviousOne wrote:

Yeah I'm actually starting to lean scum on Rayn myself. The seed was planted earlier in my second post when I said that it was possible a tired Rayn could have scum slipped. I don't recall a response to that particular sentence I pointed out, but then again I didn't phrase it as a question.

For reference:

Moving forward in the filter, I see him having scum reads on me and several other people I would consider town at this point.:

I'm more null on Nisani but the rest are more town than scummy to me right now. So let's look at what he's brought up against his proposed alternate lynches:

Look at the bolded/red sentence above, in particular. He's giving his full reasoning but he's doing it BEGRUDGINGLY. In what game do we begrudgingly give scum reads? That's pretty scummy to me on its own. Not demonstrating a town mindset IMO. The reads themselves are pretty meh. The only possible original thought I see is his stance on Oats but that's not a difficult thing to do given how easy of a target I feel Oats has made himself.

Finally, resignation:

5, count them, five possible targets for today's lynch. That's a whole lot of suspicion for so little build-up. "Let's just lynch anyone!"

How about no.

On March 27 2013 13:46 ObviousOne wrote:

-P16 delayed-reasoning vote was sheeping Palmar
-Calling Palmar's cases bad.
You guys seem to be spot on.

Prp is a good lynch IMO.

On March 28 2013 01:26 marvellosity wrote:


This is really weird.

On March 28 2013 02:08 marvellosity wrote:


*shrug*. You may be right, but I'm sceptical for now. I don't think Palmar supports an OO lynch either, so it's a no-go for today at least.

On March 28 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote:


no, it isn't. Corazon and sinani aren't echoing town sentiment at all.

On March 28 2013 02:56 Oatsmaster wrote:

Yeah
those are lynchbait.

I dont know, he apparently has 5 reads but doesnt explain any of them, and just a while earlier he said that he had nothing and was still deciding who to push.

No idea yet, I think it's the best option we have right now, aside from maybe one or two other openings I will explore later in the cycle. I think we still have more than a day to form our final wagon, so there's no need to rush it.

On March 28 2013 05:36 Palmar wrote:
I'm pushing it I'm not scum

On March 28 2013 06:58 Hapahauli wrote:


What's your point?

On March 28 2013 06:58 marvellosity wrote:
I'm glad Nisani has used his time to give us his thoughts on the game and his dying reads.

On March 28 2013 11:37 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Rayn

You need to talk to me about your deadline actions a bit.

About 1.5 hours before the deadline, you grace us with this rather wonky post:


It might be the strangest thing I've read in the thread so far. Like... I think you're suspicious of myself and Palmar? Or are you just calling us "off our game"? It's very clear what your intentions are here.

In addition, the whole idea of "oh I don't want to move my vote off of Nisani because two other players are acting strange" makes very little sense to me. I'd sympathise if your rationale was that you disagreed with our town-reads on Nisani, but you only dismiss them in passing and never address the logic.

This is where it starts to get scummy. You switch your vote to Kei without so much as a word here. While I understand that you wanted to consolidate, there are two things wrong here:
1) The deadline was not for another 1 hour and 15 minutes - you had plenty of time to push the Nisani lynch (whom you were reasonably confident in being scum), and instead chose a consolidation lynch in Kei.
2) You didn't really need to consolidate on Kei. In fact, the vote-count between Kei and Nisani at this point was quite even. It reads more like you decided to follow the momentum swing against kei for shits and giggles.

So then you unvote, but even then the circumstances here are strange. You unvote while asking Kei to corroborate his story about being in the Mason circle (by summarizing discussion). That makes very little objective sense, as generally people confirm their read BEFORE acting on something.

On March 28 2013 21:22 Palmar wrote:


I'm almost always wrong on my initial day 1 read, which is why I always revise the read before lynchtime.

As for rayn, I don't think he's town. I liked his initial contributions but I feel some of the things he said since have been pretty strange. I will elaborate later. Then again, I don't think he's our number 1 scum lynch for tomorrow. I still haven't decided where I want to take that.

On March 28 2013 21:55 marvellosity wrote:


I actually agree with this and it's the reason Palmar was in null at the end of the day and not leaning town as I'd originally had him. Palmar effectively abdicated responsibility for the Day 1 lynch and I don't like that.

On March 28 2013 22:03 marvellosity wrote:


Because I'd been leaning town on him previously for a couple of reasons, namely that I perceived his posts/thoughts to be sincere. So what you described balanced out the plus and minus columns.

On March 26 2013 23:04 Palmar wrote:


No idea yet, I think it's the best option we have right now, aside from maybe one or two other openings I will explore later in the cycle. I think we still have more than a day to form our final wagon, so there's no need to rush it.

I feel pretty confident Grack's responses have not helped me paint him green, and he's posted in a manner that yells scum at me. But I've also seen people simply mess up under some pressure.

So yeah, for now I'm convinced he's our best lynch target.

On March 28 2013 22:18 marvellosity wrote:
rayn, how do you view me given I basically pushed two mislynches?

Rayn is also a weird vote: he mentions Nisani quite a few times in a list of people he feels are scummy, but never really does anything about it until he feels he has to consolidate (way earlier than he actually has to). He then hops onto the Keirathi wagon, once again to consolidate: this time he hops OFF the leading wagon in order to consolidate, which just increases the chance of a no-lynch. And then jumps back onto Nisani. Given both Nisani is town and Keir probable town, this feels like "as long as a townie gets lynched, I'm cool with it" votes.

On March 28 2013 23:48 Acrofales wrote:
That's quite the frustration there. When I look at the votes I see things that I thought were weird. I point them out. You answer. Why the angst?

Also, I remember your OO case and you explicitly asked me about it. I admit that it was long and I was busy at work, so I didn't give it the attention it deserved at the time. Mainly because my own read on him at the time was null with some town tells. Since then I've been rereading him. Do you still think he's scum?

OO gets an A for effort, but it seems misdirected. He spends a long time analysing trivialities. I'm still falling on the side of misguided townie effort, but I agree with you that some of the words he uses seem weird from a town mindset, so I am not fully convinced in my read. Why do you think he's scum?

As for your question: if scum thinks they can justify switching wagons, and the wagon is gaining speed fast, then sure, why not switch? As for Keirathi not being confirmed: you're right, but I am choosing to believe he's town. If he's scum then this point is clearly moot, but looking over Cora's filter in particular gives me quite a lot of confidence that they're town.

On March 28 2013 16:30 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Anyway, actually going to bed

We'll see how this develops tomorrow. I'll be pursuing a different line of thought at that point. You two are going to be hard scum to lynch, if I'm right.

On March 28 2013 16:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I take my case very seriously

You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons

Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit.

On March 28 2013 16:43 InsertSmurfHere wrote:

That's a gross oversimplification of this situation.

The fact that between the two of you, you have one solid scum read (me), and that your strongest claim to being town is being masoned with each other is just ridiculous.

However, what I do know is that town realizing this takes time, and during that point in time, there are other things worth pursuing.

Then there is his clear blue snipe comment.

On March 27 2013 15:54 sinani206 wrote:
OK, Nisani is scum.

He's been using soft reads all game to make it look like he's contributing, saying people "look" or "feel" some way or another. He uses words like "possible" and "likely", phrases like "not really."
Asking others useless questions to fill up his posts.

Nisani is not acting as a townie should ask. He is hesitant and incomplete in his "analysis" and has been trying to deter discussion (here and here).

Not to mention voting prplhz with no reasoning and only 2 sentences mentioning him, asking for a vote count before voting.

Nisani's play is not townlike. There are no third parties. Therefore he is scum.

On March 28 2013 05:16 sinani206 wrote:


As town, Nisani generally uses very logical analysis to determine who is scum and will stay confident on said player. As scum, Nisani is unsure and just tries to win favor of the town without being too aggressive, which is what he has done in this game.

On March 28 2013 07:01 sinani206 wrote:
well apparently my gut is rusty...

On March 29 2013 23:26 prplhz wrote:

I don't know who is scum and maybe doing something will lead to something.

I pretty much am going to rescind rayn, Acro, dandel as people I'm leaning town on. OO too I guess.

On March 30 2013 07:32 strongandbig wrote:
question for Ryan

what happened between the end of day1 and the start of day2 that changed your read on obviousone? He was your main suspect most of day 1 and you posted a case on him (and I still think he is scum) but at the start of day2 you voted for smurf and sinani

Furthermore, looking for people who resisted joining the Nisani bandwagon - i.e. scum would know he would flip town and thus might not be willing to pile on it willingly - and their reasoning for doing so can help us analyze the votes. For instance, how Marv brought up Keirathi close to the end of day. Let's check where his vote was parked before that:

Rayn
Me
Nisani
Kei
Nisani

If you have a scum read on Marv then this concept makes sense, Marv distancing himself from a Nisani lynch by bringing up Kei towards the end of the day. This is, by itself not enough information to call Marv scummy, but also reflect on how he's been mostly withholding his reads while still engaging in the thread. It speaks to a certain amount of calculation that I don't think anyone would put past the skill of Marv. Then again it could be coincidental and that's why I'm waiting to see what he's going to push today and how.

On March 30 2013 08:28 prplhz wrote:

what's a phine? are you just messing with me?

I think his posting remind me more of this than of this so I don't want to lynch him. I don't care that he's not around at all. There's a reason sinani206 hasn't played on this forum for a while and it probably has something to do with how other players sometimes feel about him, and I think sometimes it's even perfectly reasonable to feel that way about him (though I don't remember that he's ever ruined any game I've been in) because: sometimes sinani206 does aggravating shit for no reason. As I see it, the reason sinani206 isn't around right now is that he got bored with the game after helping to mislynch his pal and so he left. It has absolutely nothing to do with his alignment.

On March 27 2013 23:23 strongandbig wrote:


Not gonna do pretty formatting but I really don't like this post. I won't do pretty formatting because I'm on my phone, but there's a few things:
- "the seed was planted" etc - there's no reason to include this in a town case, but scum want to establish "hey guys I'm being consistent". Makes the case implicitly about "I'm town and making this case on my scumread" as much as about actually persuading us his read is scum.
- one of his key arguments is "he has bad reads / scum reads on people who everyone thinks is town." We all know this is a terrible argument, since what really matters isn't who the reads are on, but whether the reasoning for those reads demonstrates a town mindset. But saying "look who he thought was scum everyone disagrees with him so he must be the scum" makes sense as a scum case, it attracts the attention of those people and makes the case easier to sheep.
- I also don't really agree with the "begrudging" part, I think when a townie feels hectored he can be plenty begrudging but scum would hide it. But that's less of a reason this case is scummy, and more just a reason I disagree with it.

On March 30 2013 08:47 marvellosity wrote:
why not? what kind of silly question is this?

On March 30 2013 08:52 marvellosity wrote:


scum or town defend people all the time. ggnore

On March 30 2013 09:04 ObviousOne wrote:
If I take the SNB claim at face value and corroborate it with his stuff after day post he is town.

Rayn why did you have a TOWN read on SNB during day 1? You said "leaning town" so now I want to hear why you did not find him scummy yesterday. Full disclosure, go.

On March 30 2013 09:13 Keirathi wrote:

So the sole reason for your town read was because he defended you?

Isn't that, in itself, enough scum motivation for a scum to defend a townie (he gets town reads from it)?

And like marv said, scum defend townies from other townies all the time.

On March 30 2013 09:17 Keirathi wrote:

Again: scum do this ALL THE TIME.

Do you want examples?

On March 30 2013 09:23 marvellosity wrote:
Scum defend townies because townies defend townies. And scum do what townies do so they look like townies.

It's not a very difficult concept.

On March 30 2013 09:31 ObviousOne wrote:
When I shadoweded VE in Nomination, oats and Mocsta went head to head for 17 pages. They both ende up looking very very town. Mafia would want to head that kind of thing off sometimes. Chaos is not the only kind of misdirection.

On March 30 2013 09:40 marvellosity wrote:
Kei and I have 60 games between us. My reads may not always be correct, but stuff like that isn't really something you can argue about.

On March 30 2013 09:42 ObviousOne wrote:

If anything you were doing what you claim to be a mafia tell - trying to start a big fight in the thread with me to create that large disruption. You corroborate that this is a tactic you feel is viable for scum and you may have attempted to draw me into a large argument over it.

On March 30 2013 10:06 Keirathi wrote:

Fine.

Here's scum S&B defending me for no reason in Chrono Trigger (it wasn't even a lynch day...we were electing a Mayor). He really had no reason to defend me. He just used the defense of me to start slinging suspicion at Hapa:

On March 30 2013 10:14 Keirathi wrote:

Sorry, it's kind of spam at this point because the discussion is completely irrelevant. (Well, not completely. If you are scum, it would be in your best interest to have a town read on S&B for defending you, when by all logic you shouldn't. But meh)

We can discuss it in post-game.

On March 30 2013 10:17 ObviousOne wrote:
Acro is also on the campaign against me that SNB was running from - that my word choice somehow espouses a mafia mindset. The only point regarding me I felt had any value at all was that I was putting in a lot of effort and he gave me the null stamp.

What I did not like about Acro's action N1 was questioning why/what was to be gained from looking at how the D1 lynch wagon came about. Funny that he wouldn't want that to be discussed when he was 100% absolutely no-question certain that Nisani was mafia for most of D1. How better to shut down that conversation than to discredit the only person willing to put in the work to do it?

On March 30 2013 10:21 marvellosity wrote:
Apparently rayn is mafia in XXXIX

this makes me think considerably worse of him here (sorry man)

see you all tomorrow

On March 30 2013 10:24 ObviousOne wrote:

The plan was to look into it and try to draw conclusions from it. Why are people so thick about this? Fuck-all else was happening in the thread anyhow. Seriously. I did some leg-work. During night phase. When people were sleeping. I drew my own conclusions from it. This is simple shit. Mountains from molehills up in this piece.

On March 30 2013 10:26 marvellosity wrote:


it's just brief; I actually will look into you tomorrow now. For the longest time I had written you off as paranoid town. XXXIX shows you're perfectly happy to take the lead as mafia (very few are). I don't really have an opinion of you now in this game.

On March 30 2013 10:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I didn't like the approach. I explained it in thread before. If we want to analyze the Nisani/sinani/Keir wagons we should look into why people decided to vote any of those people and not just look into the Nisani wagon.

On March 30 2013 22:10 Oatsmaster wrote:
Rayn, get useful fast.

Response to Acro and Keir's case and my case and relationship with sinani please.

On March 30 2013 22:31 marvellosity wrote:


rayn, can you tell me towards the end of Day 1, what you say in Smurf's posting that you thought made sense?

On March 31 2013 01:04 Oatsmaster wrote:
So am I or am I not scummy Rayn?

Also do you still think OO is scummy?

Also if not, do you have any other reads besides the people you are voting for?

On March 31 2013 01:03 Keirathi wrote:
Anyways I want to talk about this a bit more:



Obviously I am aware of that, since it is part of my case against Acro, even if it is just speculation. And part of why I don't think Acro and sinani are scum together.

Go back and look through the night. There really was very little discussion about sinani. You mentioned him once "sinani looks worse by default" or something like that. OO posed those questions that kind of had a "sinani is scum" assumption behind them. But there really wasn't much actual talk about sinani. Almost all of the night phase revolved around you/Smurf/Me+cora/OO.

So, at that point, I DO think Smurf was doomed. But I do NOT think sinani was doomed in any way. Therefore, since I think Acro is scum, I don't think there was any reason for scum Acro to bus two teammates so hard.

On March 31 2013 03:07 marvellosity wrote:


rayn was quite clearly the townleader in that game, with high activity and contributions. For a new player this is especially unusual, and so the lazy heuristic I was using here of active, paranoid townie is something that needs to be reconsidered in light of the fact he was far more capable as mafia than a newer player (or indeed, 95%+ of normal players) usually is.

On March 31 2013 10:19 Hapahauli wrote:
Soooo, you're not a mason-cop?

On March 31 2013 10:25 raynpelikoneet wrote:

I am. I can also kill ppl. Cora / Keir 100% confirmed, as i checked them Coron n1. And yea, i killed acro <3

Come on and cc me.

On March 31 2013 10:22 Hapahauli wrote:




Why'd you fake-claim?

On March 31 2013 10:28 raynpelikoneet wrote:

Because there was the anti-ton fucker.... Acro? ::D

why not=?

On March 31 2013 10:31 Hapahauli wrote:
What's "cc" mean?



I'm pretty sure you had a town-read on Acro. One of the reasons you revealed yourself to the thread was precisely because you thought everyone in the QT was town.

On March 31 2013 10:37 cDgCorazon wrote:
Also, I believe that Acro was killed by someone other than himself because the role did not say he would die if he used his power, only if he used it twice.

On March 31 2013 10:52 Hapahauli wrote:
Also, describe your vigi mechanic to me plz.

On April 01 2013 01:59 Hapahauli wrote:
There could be more. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a scum who had access to our QT and wasn't posting. Might want to check someone in the group of Oats/Sinani/Prplhz to see if they have mason access.

On April 01 2013 02:03 Hapahauli wrote:
@ Rayn

When are you allowed to make shots?

On April 01 2013 02:12 Hapahauli wrote:
What happens when you shoot someone not in a mason QT? Can you make a shot on someone w/out knowing if they're in one or not?

On April 01 2013 03:11 Keirathi wrote:

I believe he can only do one at a time? Either check, or shoot. Not both?

On April 01 2013 03:11 Keirathi wrote:

Somehow I missed this post.

But thinking back, this is really the biggest reason that my Acro->sinani analysis falls apart. First off, when Acro made the case on sinani, it was pretty obvious that Smurf was still going to be lynched first. And Acro had no idea that the day would be a double lynch, because that was Palmar's night action (presumably).

Now, lets think about the vote rigger role itself. Presumably Acro asked Kurumi if using his power would affect both of the lynches. Which means 100% that yesterday was the day to use it (why lynch one townie for free, when you can lynch two?).

So, if Acro can affect both lynches, then pushing 2 of his teammates really isn't very risky. The vote rigging is anonymous, and even if the vote rigging "frames" his two teammates and they get lynched successively at a later point, Acro still looks good coming out of it because he was pushing them.

*isclaimer: The other side of that is Acro could "frame" 2 townies with the vote rigging too. Or 1 townie and 1 scum. This is all in a hypothetical where Acro himself didn't get lynched, ofc, but whoever the two town-chosen lynches were, they both come out of the rigged lynches looking much worse.

TL;DR - my analysis about sinani not being scum with Acro is irrelevant. I still don't think there is a ton that points to him actually being scum (the biggest being how hard Acro chainsaw defended him day 1), but I think it is a decent possibility again.

On April 01 2013 03:17 Hapahauli wrote:
oh so just shoot people and go wild on the non-confirmed dudes. They haven't claimed yet, so w/e.

On April 01 2013 03:24 Hapahauli wrote:


Shoot Oats. He claimed VT.

I'm feeling a bit better about Rayn now that he's decided to talk more about his role. His shots make me want to yell at him though, but I'm not sure if I want to lynch him for it yet.

On April 01 2013 03:57 Keirathi wrote:

To be fair, I think there is a *possibility* that you did. However, I don't find it *likely* that you did.

But Acro was dead either way. If you are scum, you might as well shoot him and get town cred to ride to the easy win. The question really comes down to "Does scum rayn have the balls to pull it off?"

On April 01 2013 06:23 prplhz wrote:

goon

i had no read on palmar n1. he was townie early but he didn't care much about lynch (saying "i can lynch anybody" and then in the end he just kind of meh'd while we lynched into 6%) and he wasn't active at night so i thought i'd give him and gun and see what happened. if he looked scum on d2 then i could just give him another gun (would kill him). i didn't at all predict that he was blue.

On April 01 2013 08:13 marvellosity wrote:


That's why he did it to Smurf, silly.

On April 01 2013 08:35 Keirathi wrote:
I honestly have no idea. But I don't think it matters, either.

You check prplhz tonight. Prplhz gives a gun to sinani.

We have a mislynch to give anyways. Lynch Sinani -> Oatsmaster -> prplhz and we win.

On April 01 2013 08:38 marvellosity wrote:


You're mistaking suboptimal play for mafia play, methinks

On April 01 2013 08:50 prplhz wrote:
also i'm sure you can find something more scummy about killing a townie blue palmar n1 than "why didn't you try to repeat it n2"