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And, OO, since you're here:
You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not?
For reference:
On March 28 2013 05:04 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former
Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it.
As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game.
Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself.
You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not.
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Alright Keir, I want to talk to you about this prplhz thing.
It seems like the only reason you think I'm scum is that I'm better at reading him than you.
What gives?
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On March 28 2013 15:27 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Alright Keir, I want to talk to you about this prplhz thing.
It seems like the only reason you think I'm scum is that I'm better at reading him than you.
What gives?
It's not that you're better at reading him than me. It's that he had literally 6 posts that are equally capable of coming from scum or town prplhz, yet you were 100% confident that he was town.
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On March 28 2013 15:13 Keirathi wrote:And, OO, since you're here: You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:04 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former
Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it.
As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game.
Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself. You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not.
Run off and leave at what point? In the hours before the lynch?
I'll flesh out my mindset on this while you clarify that point.
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On March 28 2013 15:31 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 15:13 Keirathi wrote:And, OO, since you're here: You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: On March 28 2013 05:04 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former
Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it.
As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game.
Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself. You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not. Run off and leave at what point? In the hours before the lynch? I'll flesh out my mindset on this while you clarify that point.
Sorry, that was a misunderstanding. I wrote that, then I went backt o your filter just to make sure I hadn't actually missed you replying to me somehow in all the chaos. I was wrong, you didn't run off. I just forgot ot edit my sentence before I hit post.
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On March 28 2013 15:13 Keirathi wrote:And, OO, since you're here: You were so willing to hop on my bandwagon because I laughed off your post about me earlier in the game. Why did you run off and leave the thread instead of engaging me and trying to actually figure out if I was scum or not? For reference: Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:04 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
If it's between Kei and Sinani I'll go with the former
Keirathi laughed off my suspicions of him early game and I thought that was related to a conversation we had pre-game where he told me to make silly cases. His response was "I've created a monster" and to me it looked like he was simply laughing it off in an offhandedly way -- as if my suspicions were just completely unfounded and terribly reasoned -- which later convinced me to drop it when nobody really commented on it.
As for Sinani I'm okay with lynching him based on participation level this game, the meta stuff doesn't fascinate me too terribly much in his case when I can barely remember he's even playing the game.
Again, I want to lynch Keirathi over Sinani. I was laughing it off. Because your points WERE completely unfounded and terribly reasoned. Your "case" boiled down to "Keir isn't playing day 1 like he did in Hydra". I literally had a total of like 15 posts in day 1 in Hydra; half of those were spam, and half were getting into an argument with mocsta defending marv/myself. You just completely ignored me. That doesn't seem like someone who cares if the person they are voting for is town or not.
So you were my first scum read in the game. Clearly it wasn't very well founded, and nobody else seemed to agree with me or respond to any of my points at all. You even laughed at my comments regarding you, and I wasn't sure if you were laughing because a) of our pre-game conversation where you said to make trolly cases (which I thought your response indicated that you believed that was what I was doing or b) because the case was just bad in some way. Being my first case and coming in at around, what, 6-8 hours into D1, it was the best I had to go on at the time and I was willing to let it drop as I started to dislike Grackaroni.
I think part of the reason I'm still letting things drop is that most of the time I feel like I'm either not getting feedback or not even making good enough points for people to expound upon. This I attribute mostly to my relative lack of skill in identifying "proper" mafia traits, but getting feedback on them is really the only way I'm going to improve and when I get ignored as often as I do I don't get that opportunity to really develop anything. It would have been a lot simpler to have had one or two people say "obvious that case is shit, find something else" than to just let me bandy about on my own.
So since nobody talked about it, I just went with it. I owned that scum read on you, it was mine. I let it go to see how things would develop, and I instead targeted Grack (seeing how I'd traded one townie for another, that's not really reflecting well on me). You were still in the back of my mind, actually both you and Cora seemed slightly off to me. I didn't do do anything regarding Cora yet and now that won't even be necessary.
Here's what I'm thinking about right now, in response to this and while we're chatting. When I read interactions between you and Marv, I don't get the feeling that you're both playing for the same side. I also don't like that Marv concealed his case (he apparently was developing something for about a day and delayed releasing that information towards the end of the day cycle - his case on you). Marv is currently a person of interest to me.
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No, you're right. Saying "I've created a monster" was totally a reference to our pre-game conversations. I thought you would realize that I was implying that I thought your points were bullshit.
But, that's not what I'm asking. When the wagon started rolling on me, you just sheeped your old bogus read because I didn't respond to it. But, I did give a response when you said thats why you were sheeping onto me. A response that you could have easily validated for yourself by looking back at Hydra (and maybe asking me which posts were mine and which were marv's, since I tended not to sign my posts like...ever...and marv forgot sometimes too). I refuted your entire reasoning for jumping on my wagon, but you didn't reconsider your vote nor even talk with me and tell me why I was wrong.
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By the way OO, I just want to let you know that coming in and saying that you haven't read your role PM is a pretty terrible way to get people to take you seriously. Words whispered on the chopping block have a lot less power than when you're not on the chopping block.
The whole role pm crap did not help your case, and that's why people weren't as receptive to your reads.
I really do like your post on page 66 (analyzing the lynch). It's definitely a point in your favor from me, and I will sleep on your questions and answer them in the morning, plenty of time before the deadline.
I think a lot more thought needs to be given on Marv's timing of the Kei case and I can't wait to hear what Yamato is brewing up for tomorrow.
+ Show Spoiler +
He has no clue what he's talking about.
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On March 28 2013 15:44 Keirathi wrote:
No, you're right. Saying "I've created a monster" was totally a reference to our pre-game conversations. I thought you would realize that I was implying that I thought your points were bullshit.
But, that's not what I'm asking. When the wagon started rolling on me, you just sheeped your old bogus read because I didn't respond to it. But, I did give a response when you said thats why you were sheeping onto me. A response that you could have easily validated for yourself by looking back at Hydra (and maybe asking me which posts were mine and which were marv's, since I tended not to sign my posts like...ever...and marv forgot sometimes too). I refuted your entire reasoning for jumping on my wagon, but you didn't reconsider your vote nor even talk with me and tell me why I was wrong.
That's a fair assessment of what I did, yes. I feel if it had been brought up hours before that I would have been more willing to talk about it, but can you fault me for thinking it was possible that you, as scum, might say anything to get out of a lynch? I was around but I was paying less attention than I should have been. It doesn't excuse it but I also jumped on Niasni for not giving a better alternative so at least I was consistent in that regard. Not sure there is a good answer to this question that doesn't involve me being terrible at arguing (IRL I don't argue often, I tend to let what is, be). (phone posting sorry it was slow)
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Nah, dude, he had more than 6 posts. Not many more, I'll grant you, but more.
And no, those posts are not equally capable of coming from scum prplhz. If you managed to even look at his fucking filters from scum games with any sort of rational thought, you'd see EXACTLY how I've been able to accurately read his alignment. Mafia prplhz FEELS different from town prplhz, and to qualify that, he FEELS trollish and completely self-interested. Did prplhz seem overly interested in how people read him at that point? No. Most of his posts were actually talking about other people, as opposed to defending himself.
Mafia prplhz is easy to figure out. Mafia prplhz doesn't post unless town figures out that he's mafia. Mafia prplhz doesn't even fucking try to have reads. Mafia prplhz has a stupid policy lynch idea every game. You (and Hapa) both failed to realize this difference. You were utterly stuck in this "PRPLHZ IS SCUM BECAUSE HE'S LIKE, NOT TOWNIE!!!111!" which has been used to justify prplhz mislynches MANY times in the past when he's not town. Looking at how mafia prplhz was caught in LIX by a smurfing Marv, it's by comparison to relevant mafia games, not by contrasting his play against his town games.
Really, this seems like a bullshit reason to be calling me mafia. There are many players that I can tell are town or not very quickly in this game, simply because I have played with them before as both alignments and know their mentality. Prplhz is one. Hapa is another. It's not difficult to discern these players because either their town play or their scum play is VERY DISTINCT, and it's very easy to identify early on.
What concerns me about you is how little original thought you've put into this. It seems you're just riding off the trails of Hapa's accusations and arguments against me for quite a while now. What else besides this completely fucking wrong prplhz point makes me mafia? If you're going to call me your "top scumread" I want to hear it.
I also want to talk about Corazon, because he's really the lynchpin in why I don't believe that either of you are town, and why I want to challenge that notion. What has he really done this game? He's called me mafia most of this game, but how reliable is that? What reasons does he give? Almost none. A lot of his comments on me being mafia are, as I said before, snarky and pointless pokes at me while I'm engaged in conversation with someone else.
Plus, when I look at his filter, he never really TRIES to get me lynched. His only vote on me comes during a time when I was arguing with Hapa about prplhz, and it was quickly detracted. It's almost as if he's afraid to openly challenge me about my alignment, which is not something that I am used to seeing Cora do. Town Cora is usually quite UNafraid to proclaim someone scum and try to get them lynched, but what did Cora actually do today?
He sheep voted on Nisani in one line. He didn't even try to argue that I was mafia, he just "consolidated" on the day's mislynch, and then defended you. Now, the defending part is alignment NULL because you two would do this either way, masons or mafia, but the sheep vote is not. Town Cora does not just blindly sheep a wagon when he's been "tunneling" a player the whole day like he had with me. However, mafia Cora is good at accurately identifying thread sentiment and getting himself on town's wagon, as evidenced by his first ever game on this forum, which was newbie 33 I believe.
To me, this tunnel feels like a weak imitation of Cora's usual town play. It doesn't contain the FORCE or AGGRESSION that a normal Cora tunnel contains. It's passive-aggressive, which is something I associate more with scum play than town play. I feel like he's just following the general thread sentiment given by Hapa that I am mafia and going with it, rather than that he actually believes I am mafia.
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On March 28 2013 15:52 cDgCorazon wrote:By the way OO, I just want to let you know that coming in and saying that you haven't read your role PM is a pretty terrible way to get people to take you seriously. Words whispered on the chopping block have a lot less power than when you're not on the chopping block. The whole role pm crap did not help your case, and that's why people weren't as receptive to your reads. I really do like your post on page 66 (analyzing the lynch). It's definitely a point in your favor from me, and I will sleep on your questions and answer them in the morning, plenty of time before the deadline. I think a lot more thought needs to be given on Marv's timing of the Kei case and I can't wait to hear what Yamato is brewing up for tomorrow. + Show Spoiler +
He has no clue what he's talking about.
Sorry that was me just blatantly trying to be Chezinu. I'm sure nobody is a fan of that type of thing but fuck it, it was a throwback to appease our host because Kurumi <3 Chezinu.
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You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.)
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On March 28 2013 16:00 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 15:52 cDgCorazon wrote:By the way OO, I just want to let you know that coming in and saying that you haven't read your role PM is a pretty terrible way to get people to take you seriously. Words whispered on the chopping block have a lot less power than when you're not on the chopping block. The whole role pm crap did not help your case, and that's why people weren't as receptive to your reads. I really do like your post on page 66 (analyzing the lynch). It's definitely a point in your favor from me, and I will sleep on your questions and answer them in the morning, plenty of time before the deadline. I think a lot more thought needs to be given on Marv's timing of the Kei case and I can't wait to hear what Yamato is brewing up for tomorrow. + Show Spoiler +
He has no clue what he's talking about.
Sorry that was me just blatantly trying to be Chezinu. I'm sure nobody is a fan of that type of thing but fuck it, it was a throwback to appease our host because Kurumi <3 Chezinu.
To add, this is a game based on TL Mafia personalities among other things so it fit with the theme of the game even though there wasn't any flavor to draw from.
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On March 28 2013 15:53 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 15:44 Keirathi wrote:
No, you're right. Saying "I've created a monster" was totally a reference to our pre-game conversations. I thought you would realize that I was implying that I thought your points were bullshit.
But, that's not what I'm asking. When the wagon started rolling on me, you just sheeped your old bogus read because I didn't respond to it. But, I did give a response when you said thats why you were sheeping onto me. A response that you could have easily validated for yourself by looking back at Hydra (and maybe asking me which posts were mine and which were marv's, since I tended not to sign my posts like...ever...and marv forgot sometimes too). I refuted your entire reasoning for jumping on my wagon, but you didn't reconsider your vote nor even talk with me and tell me why I was wrong. That's a fair assessment of what I did, yes. I feel if it had been brought up hours before that I would have been more willing to talk about it, but can you fault me for thinking it was possible that you, as scum, might say anything to get out of a lynch? I was around but I was paying less attention than I should have been. It doesn't excuse it but I also jumped on Niasni for not giving a better alternative so at least I was consistent in that regard. Not sure there is a good answer to this question that doesn't involve me being terrible at arguing (IRL I don't argue often, I tend to let what is, be). (phone posting sorry it was slow)
I don't want you to argue. I want you to THINK. Yes, as scum I would say anything to stop my lynch. But, as town I would obviously want to stop my lynch too. It's your fucking job if you're townie to figure out which one it is. Not to sit on the sidelines and say "Welp, I voted for you. Guess that means he's scum and I can just ignore him now."
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On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.)
It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays.
Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE.
And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS.
And you fucking ignored me.
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But I digress.
What else makes me scum, because this is played out.
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I like this, I have an in-game coach.
I'm just looking at the timeline for when this conversation was happening to see if there's anything else I can describe about what was going on and mostly it's
On March 28 2013 04:59 ObviousOne wrote:
Just woke up and caught up.
On March 28 2013 05:01 ObviousOne wrote:
##Vote: Keirathi
On March 28 2013 05:17 ObviousOne wrote:
Brb after coffee
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And yes, you justifying your scum read on me IS of paramount importance to my read on you, because you're the townier of the mason group and I'm not going to get anything out of Cora anyway.
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On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS.And you fucking ignored me.
That is just patently false. And you wonder why I question your 100% townread on prplhz. :o
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On March 28 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS.And you fucking ignored me. That is just patently false. And you wonder why I question your 100% townread on prplhz. :o
No, it's not.
Show me in either of GSL or LIX where mafia prplhz gives a read that isn't Chezinu, or OMGUS.
And then show me how that read is at all similar to how he began this game.
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EPT
