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On March 28 2013 16:10 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
And yes, you justifying your scum read on me IS of paramount importance to my read on you, because you're the townier of the mason group and I'm not going to get anything out of Cora anyway.
It's 2:15 am. I'm going to bed. If you're around tomorrow we can have that conversation, but if not I'll post my reads at the deadline.
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Just fucking post it.
We don't have to have a "conversation" for you to post things about me that aren't questioning my methods of reading people.
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On March 28 2013 16:14 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:11 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS.And you fucking ignored me. That is just patently false. And you wonder why I question your 100% townread on prplhz. :o No, it's not. Show me in either of GSL or LIX where mafia prplhz gives a read that isn't Chezinu, or OMGUS. And then show me how that read is at all similar to how he began this game.
Prplhz has more scum games than those,
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I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless.
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In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz.
ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani.
On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy.
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On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote:In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy.
I note this because it's semi-related to one of the questions I brought up earlier regarding whether or not Sinani is on the block tomorrow.
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On March 28 2013 16:17 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Just fucking post it.
We don't have to have a "conversation" for you to post things about me that aren't questioning my methods of reading people.
I don't have anything written up, and I'm not spending time writing it up tonight.
TL;DR: Bad meta case on Dandel, awkward backing out of it (saying you didn't ignore his town games, but still saying "Is dandel an idiot as town, too?"), doing nothing to push any read even though you ostensibly had a couple, etc.
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So what Hapa said.
Good stuff.
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So I see that you've decided to lie and make up a bunch of crap about me and use a read heavily based on meta to call me scum. About time you actually gave a half-decent case. I'll address this point-by-point.
On March 28 2013 15:53 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I also want to talk about Corazon, because he's really the lynchpin in why I don't believe that either of you are town, and why I want to challenge that notion. What has he really done this game? He's called me mafia most of this game, but how reliable is that? What reasons does he give? Almost none. A lot of his comments on me being mafia are, as I said before, snarky and pointless pokes at me while I'm engaged in conversation with someone else.
Yamato, I've had actual reasons to call you mafia. I'll pull them out from my filter. There's so many examples I had to put them in a spoiler:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2013 00:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
All you are is silly meta reads Smurf. In all honesty nothing I do is going to be right for you because (I'm not scumhunting enough). You need to get off your high horse and realize that you've done less good scumhunting than I have. On March 27 2013 00:50 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 00:34 Oatsmaster wrote:On March 27 2013 00:33 cDgCorazon wrote:
All you are is silly meta reads Smurf. In all honesty nothing I do is going to be right for you because (I'm not scumhunting enough). You need to get off your high horse and realize that you've done less good scumhunting than I have. Who cares Cora? Does that make him scum/town? I think it makes him scum. What he's doing is not really scum hunting, it's just shitting up the thread and only looking like he is scumhunting. I think that you are doing a better job of making the same point as Smurf (that I need to scumhunt more). It's a lot more constructive than what Smurf is doing. Therefore, I'm leaning town on you as well. On March 27 2013 06:12 cDgCorazon wrote:
So now my attention turns to Mr. Smurf, the man who calls me out for only scumhunting one person when he has, in fact, scumhunted no one. Care to give us some actual reads Yamato? On March 27 2013 12:45 cDgCorazon wrote:
However, I'd also love to hear a lot more from Yamato/Smurf about who he wants to see lynched. I want to know whether he still wants me dead or if he's actually trying this game.
On March 27 2013 14:55 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 14:50 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
As for Cora, I don't think he's nearly as "indignant" as you want to paint him. Who are his scum reads? What happened to his Acro read that he just kinda threw out there? It's all just so BLAH. Because Rayn was playing scummy and then I've been on the defensive since then. I patiently await you actually committing to pressure someone instead of throwing weak arguments out. Is being BLAH the same as being scummy? I really can't speak your language bro. On March 27 2013 15:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
I love how you go from me/Grack to Nisani once a couple of people say they think I'm town. Pretty sketch in my eyes. On March 27 2013 15:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 15:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:On March 27 2013 15:07 cDgCorazon wrote:
I love how you go from me/Grack to Nisani once a couple of people say they think I'm town. Pretty sketch in my eyes. I'm waiting for you to do something besides make stupid, snarky comments. People don't want to lynch you, apparently, but if you are mafia, you aren't the only one. I'm not making stupid, snarky comments. I'm calling things as I see them. What I read the last sentence as: "I think you are scum but no one else does so I'm gonna say I don't think you are scum". That's not a very town thing to say. If you have any actual reasons that make you scum that don't make you sound like a hypocrite I would love to hear them. On March 28 2013 00:24 cDgCorazon wrote:
Smurf still needs to commit himself to actually scum hunting and not bouncing around multiple targets. Right now he's looking most likely to get my vote.
The things that you are calling me out for are basically stuff that you are doing yourself. You've said that I haven't scumhunted, yet you've done nothing but make up silly reasons to call me scum. You just accused me of not going after you D1 when you literally went from "Cora/Grack are most likely scum" to "Nissani is getting my vote". Unless we are scumbuddies, you are basically looking in a mirror when you accuse me. Since you see scum, you must be scum. Savvy?
Face it Yamato, you haven't done anything this game. You've sat back and thrown your vote on Nissani without showing any other signs of real scumhunting. I've actually done shit so far, and you haven't.
Plus, when I look at his filter, he never really TRIES to get me lynched. His only vote on me comes during a time when I was arguing with Hapa about prplhz, and it was quickly detracted. It's almost as if he's afraid to openly challenge me about my alignment, which is not something that I am used to seeing Cora do.
I've called you scummy like 15 times this game. Since when have I been afraid to call you scum?
Town Cora is usually quite UNafraid to proclaim someone scum and try to get them lynched, but what did Cora actually do today?
He sheep voted on Nisani in one line. He didn't even try to argue that I was mafia, he just "consolidated" on the day's mislynch, and then defended you. Now, the defending part is alignment NULL because you two would do this either way, masons or mafia, but the sheep vote is not. Town Cora does not just blindly sheep a wagon when he's been "tunneling" a player the whole day like he had with me. However, mafia Cora is good at accurately identifying thread sentiment and getting himself on town's wagon, as evidenced by his first ever game on this forum, which was newbie 33 I believe.
To me, this tunnel feels like a weak imitation of Cora's usual town play. It doesn't contain the FORCE or AGGRESSION that a normal Cora tunnel contains. It's passive-aggressive, which is something I associate more with scum play than town play. I feel like he's just following the general thread sentiment given by Hapa that I am mafia and going with it, rather than that he actually believes I am mafia.
I'm pretty sure that I spent more than one line voting for Nisani:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 28 2013 00:40 cDgCorazon wrote:
Yeah that vote is pretty terrible. I really wish he would come here and defend himself. This town needs a sense of direction because right now we are going in every which way.
Basically prp and Nisani have really crappy votes, but at least prp admitted to sheeping, whereas Nisani did not give anything towards his vote.
If Nisani doesn't come here and defend himself I'm willing to consolidate on him. On March 28 2013 04:16 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:12 marvellosity wrote:
Beeteedubs, Keirathi is probably mafia. Lol what makes you think that? Anyways, in the interest of consolidation (due to the fact that we have about 5-6 candidates who look really scummy), I'm going to vote for Nisani. Out of all of the scummy players, he looks the worst. Neither his vote, nor any of his actions, have not been explained. Since he is not wanting to defend himself, I'm guessing he is mafia hoping it all blows over and that someone else gets lynched. The fact that we are still talking about other people also makes me feel a bit better that we are not walking into an easy mislynch. ##Vote: Nisani On March 28 2013 04:45 cDgCorazon wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 04:41 Oatsmaster wrote:
Cora why is Nisani worse than sinani? Because Sinani has at least explained his vote somewhat (that Nisani is scum). Sinani has also done a slightly better job being active in the thread and responding to different topics brought up, whereas the majority of Nisani's filter is him talking about Palmar and Grack. When it comes down to people playing this anti-town of games we have to start nitpicking stuff and looking at details like this.
I also said why I did not vote for you:
On March 28 2013 05:02 cDgCorazon wrote:
I'm not 100% sure Nisani is scum, but I'm more sure about him than I am with Yamato. There's no use making a hipster vote because we need to lynch someone today. A no-lynch would only leave us with more questions and give the scum a huge victory for D1.
If this wasn't majority lynch, I would have voted for you. When we need a majority to get votes, I'm not going to be that idiot who throws his vote away when it's between a lynch and a no-lynch. I will always champion anything over a no-lynch. I knew that you were not going to get lynched today no matter how awful of a game you were playing, so I made a responsible switch and justified (in my opinion) my vote on Nisani. It was never like I tunneled you D1.
The rest of your case is based off of meta. The fact that 2.5 out of your 4 paragraphs on meta shows that your argument has no legs underneath it and won't be able to stand.
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On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote:In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy.
We are talking about prplhz before this post:
On March 27 2013 22:04 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar If scum had an anonymous dayvig then why didn't they shoot you dead? Or just about anybody other than Grackaroni since he was causing quite the ruckus.
Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day.
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On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless.
It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things.
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How to refute cases as scum:
1) Blow away the completely valid meta analysis of how you've played this game versus your town games
2) Overrate how much effort you put into finding the lynch
3) "WELL YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS ME!!!!!"
4) Post a bunch of snarky comments and call them "scumhunting"
I am blown away. These are my notes so I know how to do it next time I roll scum.
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On March 28 2013 16:26 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless. It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things.
I'VE NEVER SEEN
Which is the relevant part of this argument in the first place.
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Anyway, actually going to bed
We'll see how this develops tomorrow. I'll be pursuing a different line of thought at that point. You two are going to be hard scum to lynch, if I'm right.
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On March 28 2013 16:28 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:26 Keirathi wrote:On March 28 2013 16:19 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I fail to see the importance of that comment
Whatever, I'm going to bed too. This thread is hopeless. It is important. You can't say "SCUM PRPLHZ NEVER HAS ANY READS" because it demonstrably not true. Maybe scum prplhz didn't have reads in GSL or LIX, but "NEVER" and GSL+LIX are two completely different things. I'VE NEVER SEEN Which is the relevant part of this argument in the first place.
Where is the "IVE NEVER SEEN" in your argument?
On March 28 2013 16:08 InsertSmurfHere wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote:
You are wildly blowing my read of prplhz out of proportion. Maybe that's because you drew me into an argument so I started replying to specific things instead of general things, but prplhz in its simplest form is: town prplhz cares about town, scum prplhz doesn't. I've PLAYED scum with prplhz. I even went back and looked through our irc logs. He told me multiple times that he wasn't even reading the thread, and all of his cases/pushes were just made up.
(Also your "policy lynch" thing is bullshit. Scum prplhz didn't propose a policy lynch in GSL 1. But again, meta isn't about specifics. Its about broad playstyle similarities/difference.) It should be "scum prplhz only cares about himself" because that's how he plays. Look, you can argue with me about whether or not those posts made him look like town or not, but the fact of the matter is, I know how to read prplhz I fucking read all of his posts and TOLD YOU GUYS WHAT HIS READS WERE. And then, I showed you that MAFIA PRPLHZ DOESN'T EVEN HAVE READS. And you fucking ignored me.
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On March 28 2013 16:28 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
How to refute cases as scum:
1) Blow away the completely valid meta analysis of how you've played this game versus your town games
2) Overrate how much effort you put into finding the lynch
3) "WELL YOU'RE JUST AS BAD AS ME!!!!!"
4) Post a bunch of snarky comments and call them "scumhunting"
I am blown away. These are my notes so I know how to do it next time I roll scum.
Yamato your case is going to be as good as how serious you take it. If you want to act like a little child you can go sit in the corner again.
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On March 28 2013 16:24 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2013 16:20 ObviousOne wrote:In the interests of participating in this conversation, I'm filtering prplhz. ISH purports that prplhz' scum meta suggests not reading the thread and making up bullshit cases when people think he is mafia. I'm not seeing that here. I am getting the same general feeling about his play that I had in Nomination before I knew he was town there. I'm not going to pretend I'm any good at meta but it I go by feeling and ISH's description then prp's filter supports a town read. Towards the end of what is there he's even trying to keep things cool in the thread, and presents an interesting tidbit about Sinani. On March 28 2013 05:24 prplhz wrote:
sinani206 is showing some classic illusion of grandeur in his "I know Nisani201 so just sheep me" post. That's how I remember town sinani206 while scum sinani206 doesn't want to do much and just tries to get other player's sympathy. We are talking about prplhz before this post: Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 22:04 prplhz wrote:
@Palmar If scum had an anonymous dayvig then why didn't they shoot you dead? Or just about anybody other than Grackaroni since he was causing quite the ruckus. Everything after that is what I expect from town prplhz and why he wasn't a lynch candidate later in the day.
Okay, so above that he just asks a bunch of questions for the most part, one comment about Rayn being frustrated. I'll take a look at Nomination.
Early D1 nomination [town] features a lot of paragraphs and looks like real interest in the thread (genuine interest). Trying to get Oats/Moc to stop throwing shit on eachother (peacekeeping). Overall he looks committed to hunting scum right off the bat even as he catches up with the thread.
That game looks a lot tighter in terms of being town than this game, but it's not out of the question. I wouldn't give him a green stamp just for his early D1 contributions but D1 looks OK to me right now looking back at it as an entire day. It feels similar to me, but his pokes in this game (again, for the early portion of the day) are much more brief and he pokes quite a few people with not a lot of followup except about Acrofales. Is Acro a person of interest for any of you guys, as well?
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On March 28 2013 16:30 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
Anyway, actually going to bed
We'll see how this develops tomorrow. I'll be pursuing a different line of thought at that point. You two are going to be hard scum to lynch, if I'm right.
Here's a hint: You aren't.
The last 4 games I've played like crap (NMM 36/37, Duel, Personality). I'm pretty sure playing better does not mean playing scummier.
The fact that you are only calling Kei scum due to our Mason BFF Club (basically calling him scum "by proxy") shows that all you are doing is tunneling me. It's quite silly.
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I take my case very seriously
You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons
Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit.
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On March 28 2013 16:36 InsertSmurfHere wrote:
I take my case very seriously
You truly haven't even tried to get me lynched, but you've been calling me scum the whole game for terrible reasons
Yet again, I'm not interested in pursuing this further. It won't go anywhere right now until the rest of town figures out that your mason claim is bullshit.
"You've been calling me scum, yet haven't pursued me. But I just want to call you scum and then not pursue you anymore"
What?
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EPT
