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On March 27 2013 04:29 raynpelikoneet wrote:
OO: What makes Grack more scummy than Cora?
Cora's seemingly trying to get you to settle on a target with his tunnel and I don't have a good handle on his alignment since he could be serious about lynching you (which I disagree with doing). If I take his vote as intent to lynch then he's looking scummy to me for tunneling my town read. Maybe all you have to do is focus a bit more. He said in the following post that you have attacked 6 people, but that's actually stretching it a bit; perhaps that's how you get your information, via attack rather than discourse. If I assume you do it all via attacks then his argument is that you are being town you. If I assume you combine the two I would really like to see some more general discourse (such as asking me this question)
On March 27 2013 00:11 cDgCorazon wrote:Hi. Thanks Mr. Smurf for calling me lurky when I was asleep. If you're going to make silly meta reads on me, it's not going to get you anywhere. In all honesty this thread has still been ridiculously chaotic. After the tragedy that was Personality Mafia, I'm trying to only post when I have thoughts and cases to make. Right now we are just switching from one lynch target to the other and not really getting anything done besides calling each other scum. As much as the hosts love to troll, I don't think that they made everyone scum. Sorry guys. To add my thoughts to the ring, I'm still convinced that Rayn is scum. He's following the thread sentiment to the letter. He's just attacking whoever has the heat at the time. Less than 24 hours into the game, he has already attacked the following people: Prphlz (voted) Me Marv Keir OO (voted) Oats + Show Spoiler +
That's 40% of the people in the game...
The other problem I have with this is that Rayn is not following through with any of his arguments (besides the OO vote). He's quite content to go after multiple people and not back his sentiments up. It's scummy because he's just trying to look like he is scumhunting, when in reality he is just shitting up the thread and sheeping on whoever is the flavor of the month (or by this thread's standards, flavor of the 10 minutes). That's not town-motivated behavior, it's scummy behavior. ##Vote: RaynpelikoneetIf there's any questions for me I'd love to hear them.
See if you can change his mind with your actions, he might just be a good candidate for tomorrow if this continues.
Whereas Grack is literally making shit up about me to get me lynched.
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On March 27 2013 04:53 Palmar wrote:I think reyn is town 
Why the long face? Who else do you want to lynch other than Grack?
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On March 27 2013 04:56 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:53 Nisani201 wrote:On March 27 2013 04:47 Keirathi wrote:On March 27 2013 04:45 Nisani201 wrote:On March 27 2013 04:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nisani: Why does Smurf look town now? He never looked scum. The case he made was scumbait, it didn't catch anyone, he backpedaled, and now he's contributing to the thread. Why are you so sure it was a "scumbait" case? Smurf never said "okay, okay. I was faking this case" or anything of the sort. He admitted that he was wrong, but that's a pretty huge difference. Well it's possible that he believed the case when he wrote it. I don't think he did, but I can't explain his actions. Why do you not think that he believed it when he made it? That's the part I'm confused about. Literally everything his has said about it after-the-fact points to him believing it when he said it, then changing his mind after people pointed out how terrible it was and him doing a bit more research.
Following on this, if he didn't believe the case when he made it, as town he should not have posted it. Especially when, as a smurf, he is attempting to bypass meta support against him-- we have to take what he says at face value. Smurf knew this and yet still BS'd in the thread.
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On March 27 2013 05:00 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:59 cDgCorazon wrote:
Rayn are you going to call me scum or not? I asked you that about 16 hours ago and you still haven't answered.
You've said all this shit about how I'm suspicious but you haven't said I'm scummy. There's no way there are as many scum as people you have called suspicious. Where do you draw the line between acting suspicious and acting scummy? Sorry. I don't think you are scum.
Why did you ask me about him being scum if he wasn't a scum read of yours?
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EBWOP:
To add, it reads to me like you are potentially looking for support on lynching people who are suspicious of you without calling them scum. You are also indirectly defending Grack by having me consider him as a candidate today.
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EBWOP: (sorry for triple)
To finish the thought, you're really just defending Grack outright without giving me a proper alternative and I don't like it.
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On March 27 2013 05:06 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:04 ObviousOne wrote:
EBWOP:
To add, it reads to me like you are potentially looking for support on lynching people who are suspicious of you without calling them scum. You are also indirectly defending Grack by having me consider him as a candidate today. No, i will not support lynching Cora. Because i think he is town.
K then garner your support elsewhere or provide a scummier target; I'm set on Grack for now.
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On March 27 2013 05:08 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:28 Nisani201 wrote:
Good morning everyone.
The case on Grack is really weak, and if it were made by someone other than Palmar it probably wouldn't be getting nearly as far as it is now.
Just because Smurf made a bad case doesn't mean he's scum. He looks town now and there shouldn't be any suspicion on him.
Acrofales is making a bit more sense but his case on me is just a bunch of OMGUS. Acro, who is your secondary suspect? So... you have gone from having me as a scumspect for a terrible reason to throwing out some town reads. Who do you think is scum? There are a bunch of people I think could be scum as well. Cora, Sinani and OO are currently vying for second spot. I just looked over OO's town meta in Fruity and LX and it is very different from his play this game. Far more engaged and discussing things with people, less over-analysing and vague reads.
Please clarify what you are saying here about me. The sentence structure lends itself to misinterpretation.
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On March 27 2013 05:18 prplhz wrote:
@Keirathi @strongandbig
I voted Grackaroni for all the reasons presented by Palmar, Hapahauli and Keirathi. I liked them all. He's also the best lynch.
I haven't been around much so far which is the explanation for why I didn't post a lot. Just got up to date on the thread. My Grackaroni vote was around page 16 and nothing has changed my mind since that.
Cool. Now we need a second scum read from you, so take a few minutes to digest the thread and tell us one other player you would lynch today and a few brief reasons why.
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On March 27 2013 05:20 strongandbig wrote:
Nisani can you go into more detail as to why you think Grackaroni is town? I feel like that's kind of too important a point to just throw out like that without any explanation or discussion, given that he's the vote leader at the moment (i think).
SNB: unless I'm misremembering which is entirely possible given this headache, the only two people who think Grackaroni is town and have expressed as much are Nisani and Rayn? Do you think this is a good sign that the lynch is indeed mafia or is their resistance to his lynch coming from a town mindset? I feel like that's where you're going with this question so I would like to hear the answer to it as well.
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In the interests of having meaningful discussion about today's candidates, I would like to see everyone take a stand on who they think should be up for lynch today so we can talk about the candidates and not miss out on the opportunity to hear from people who are in opposite time zones or not able to be in the thread at various points during the day. We're coming up on the halfway point of the day portion and this is the optimal time to switch gears and makes for a good opportunity for any lingering cases yet to be made to get posted in the thread before votes are stuck in useless places due to not being around.
Original post regarding Grack:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 26 2013 15:39 ObviousOne wrote:Grack reads like he's ready to become an echo of thread sentiment. By admission this is a return to the game and he may be a bit rusty for that. I liked: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 11:17 Grackaroni wrote:
For the record Hapa: When I say that I don't like Sinani using the fact that OO didn't read his role PM to say that he is scum.
I mean that Sinani is using scummy logic. (he is misconstruing something that should not be alignment indicative and using it against OO to say that he is scum.)
This is my first game in a long time and I am having some trouble finding where I need to focus. But I am giving reads and I will continue to do so.
Lack of forthcoming reads about people he's asking questions about is kind of weird, him espousing as much is highlighted here: Show nested quote +On March 26 2013 12:56 Grackaroni wrote:On March 26 2013 12:49 strongandbig wrote:On March 26 2013 12:45 Grackaroni wrote:
I don't like the case on Dandel Ion. He seems to troll regardless of alignment so there's nothing in there that points to him being scum this game as opposed to just anti-town.
@ISH Why didn't you bother to look up a town game of Dandel Ion? u scum bro? No..... I know what you dislike. I didn't say anything about what I think of Dandel Ion or ISH in that post. But I wasn't intending to because I haven't drawn any conclusions on them from it. All i am saying is that I dislike the case and for good reason. Calling out sinani for tunneling on my meaningless hello post: null
We can find out a lot more about him when there are some concrete bits mid-day besides his interactions with sinani. Looking at it again, there's a kind of nugget in the middle there with the interaction between him and Palmar. (BTW I've never played with a D1-talkative Palmar before, this is kind of surreal.) He flat out gave Palmar a town read instead of proposing a better lynch target. Okay, that's weird. Scum points and town points, I want to see more. More red than green. Are you picking up what I'm putting down?
Dot points outlining why I think Grack is scum:
+ Show Spoiler +On March 27 2013 03:13 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 03:01 Acrofales wrote:On March 27 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
Grackeroni is an infinitely better lynch than either rayn or Obvious. Obvious isn't playing scared at all which was the overarching theme of his play in Hydra Mafia (even with VE for support).
Acro, I'll check what you said about Nisani when I'm home and have some time later. What makes you say OO is not timid? He has not really done anything that stands out except to not read his role PM, when he had, probably, not read his role pm, which makes that completely non-indicative of alignment. Since then he has shared 2 rather vague and meaningless association cases... and a meandering post about Grack that left me with the feeling that he didn't actually have an opinion either way. Where are the reads? Where is the scumhunting? Where is the townie activity? You just don't have a handle on how I play. Marv understands me better. This is how I do. When I talk about something, it's typically because it's either worth replying to or the person I'm talking about is a scum-read of mine or someone I'm interested in getting a better read on myself. There's no reason to talk about townies except in passing and/or when referring to cases. I thought Kei was scummy yesterday but he's looking better today and I have dropped it. I'm hedging my bets on Grack being scum - responded to Palmar's pressure by giving Palmar a town read instead of an alternate lynch proposition - no substantial positions taken outside of calling Nisani's train of thought scummy - a lot of posts but little of any intent - seems to have known better than discuss my meaningless intro post but continues to talk about it for several posts instead of simply shutting down the conversation as pointless
My vote is currently on Grackaroni.
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On March 27 2013 07:33 Palmar wrote:
prplhz's entrance was shittier than I expected. I'm still not sure but I went back and compared his early efforts in nomination to this, because in nomination I mistook him for scum for a while. I'm not sure if I want to move the lynch off Grack to him, but whatever, I think he'll get a pass for today.
marv you're still sort of meh in this thread.
Sort of agreeing with this, at least initially. I didn't like that he voted and then spent the next hour catching up on the thread instead of catching up first and then voting. He also states he's pretty much blatantly sheeping several people's cases on Grackaroni and his own initiative in scum hunting has been less than stellar. I was more inclined to vote for him between his vote and his explanation but I'm not precisely convinced he's scum just for the vote-post delay.
It's interesting that you choose him as a target when he's been a detractor of yours:
On March 27 2013 05:33 prplhz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 05:30 Nisani201 wrote:
The initial case on Grack was bad, it was based off of his reactions to certain things, which weren't really scummy. He didn't do anything scummy after that. As I said earlier, the only reason people are voting for him is because of Palmar. Aren't you worried that Palmar is making bad cases and people are just sheeping them? It kinda seems like you think it's a bad thing but you're perfectly fine with it.
What precisely about his entrance are you saying is scum motivated?
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On March 27 2013 07:48 Dandel Ion wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 07:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Btw, can we just end the "who is the smurf" stuff? It's the most pointless converation ever. I want to talk about scum-reads, and not htis crap. That's what I'm saying.
I commented on this earlier, which lends itself to Palmar's proposed policy lynch and gets us back on the track of analyzing smurf for what he presents to the thread:
On March 27 2013 05:01 ObviousOne wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 04:56 Keirathi wrote:On March 27 2013 04:53 Nisani201 wrote:On March 27 2013 04:47 Keirathi wrote:On March 27 2013 04:45 Nisani201 wrote:On March 27 2013 04:40 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Nisani: Why does Smurf look town now? He never looked scum. The case he made was scumbait, it didn't catch anyone, he backpedaled, and now he's contributing to the thread. Why are you so sure it was a "scumbait" case? Smurf never said "okay, okay. I was faking this case" or anything of the sort. He admitted that he was wrong, but that's a pretty huge difference. Well it's possible that he believed the case when he wrote it. I don't think he did, but I can't explain his actions. Why do you not think that he believed it when he made it? That's the part I'm confused about. Literally everything his has said about it after-the-fact points to him believing it when he said it, then changing his mind after people pointed out how terrible it was and him doing a bit more research. Following on this, if he didn't believe the case when he made it, as town he should not have posted it. Especially when, as a smurf, he is attempting to bypass meta support against him-- we have to take what he says at face value. Smurf knew this and yet still BS'd in the thread.
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On March 27 2013 07:50 Palmar wrote:
I did not say his entrance was scum motivated, I said it was shitty. This can be either lazy town or lazy scum, but the lack of concrete opinions in his posts make me lean slight scum on him. But again, I'm not sure right now. I'll know better how to proceed tomorrow.
Okay.
I am aware that you have a sort of policy where you will lynch stupid as hard as you lynch scum so I just wanted to see where you were coming from on that. Correct me if I am wrong on this statement, but that's where I'm working from.
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On March 27 2013 08:23 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 07:52 ObviousOne wrote:On March 27 2013 07:50 Palmar wrote:
I did not say his entrance was scum motivated, I said it was shitty. This can be either lazy town or lazy scum, but the lack of concrete opinions in his posts make me lean slight scum on him. But again, I'm not sure right now. I'll know better how to proceed tomorrow. Okay. I am aware that you have a sort of policy where you will lynch stupid as hard as you lynch scum so I just wanted to see where you were coming from on that. Correct me if I am wrong on this statement, but that's where I'm working from. I don't have any policy of the sort. In fact I consider one of the main objectives of mafia to be learning how to seperate stupid from scum.
Maybe I misremembered your Hero mini clean read video or you just made it as a flippant comment. In either case, what do you make of Cora right now? He seems to WANT lynch votes on himself.
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On March 27 2013 10:15 marvellosity wrote:
Ugh - I retract what I said about over-explained town-read. Palmar actually asked for an explanation about it like that.
Yeah... thanks for pointing this out, this actually runs counter to one of my points against Grackeroni. I am going to take another look at my stance because that was the major reason why I decided to tunnel in. Need to re-evaluate, I'm going to unvote for now and I'll be back in a few hours after raid night is over.
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On March 27 2013 10:34 Grackaroni wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 10:28 ObviousOne wrote:On March 27 2013 10:15 marvellosity wrote:
Ugh - I retract what I said about over-explained town-read. Palmar actually asked for an explanation about it like that. Yeah... thanks for pointing this out, this actually runs counter to one of my points against Grackeroni. I am going to take another look at my stance because that was the major reason why I decided to tunnel in. Need to re-evaluate, I'm going to unvote for now and I'll be back in a few hours after raid night is over. and seriously..... reallly.... Do you even read my posts? I pointed this exact thing out in my post. I said that you didn't read the thread closely or didn't filter Palmar because you would have known that my post on Palmar didn't come out of the blue. and then you came back with "Whereas Grack is literally making shit up about me to get me lynched." But now when Marv says it all of a sudden you notice. And people wonder why I've been less than motivated this game. Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 02:53 marvellosity wrote:
Grackeroni is an infinitely better lynch than either rayn or Obvious. Obvious isn't playing scared at all which was the overarching theme of his play in Hydra Mafia (even with VE for support).
Acro, I'll check what you said about Nisani when I'm home and have some time later. Meh I was mostly right. You haven't mentioned anyone else you think is a better lynch.
You didn't quote Palmar in the interaction which would have been useful for when people read your filter. Try to quote people when you respond to them and this will be so much easier to avoid. It's really easy to see that random town read/case on Palmar in your filter without the context of his question and be like "wow, fuck, that's random". Anyway, like I said, back in a few hours.
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On March 27 2013 11:53 Acrofales wrote:
Well, do you agree that his D1 in Fruity is NOTHING like his D1 here?
It's called trying to be less bad. You should try it sometime.
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On March 27 2013 11:58 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 11:53 ObviousOne wrote:On March 27 2013 11:53 Acrofales wrote:
Well, do you agree that his D1 in Fruity is NOTHING like his D1 here? It's called trying to be less bad. You should try it sometime. Yeah. I'm not making a meta case on you. I never said you were scum because your meta doesn't match up. I just said it wasn't a reason to call you town, and THAT is the point I am trying to make. Don't you find it weird Marv has this magic meta town read on you when you are apparently busy changing your meta?
Unless I misunderstood, his meta read on me was that I was fearless here/previous town games and I was afraid to post in Hydra (my only scum game and therefore his only scum game to draw from) which is spot on. If you understood his meta case on me differently then that may be where the malfunction is occurring.
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On March 27 2013 12:01 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On March 27 2013 11:57 marvellosity wrote:On March 27 2013 11:53 Acrofales wrote:
Well, do you agree that his D1 in Fruity is NOTHING like his D1 here? This isn't the issue. Don't make me resort to caps lock. You said very specifically he was more engaged, whereas I have pointed out he literally engaged with no-one on Day 1 in Fruity. If you can explain to me how he was engaged Day 1 Fruity (hint: you can't) I will drop this immediately. Otherwise I just want to clear up an assertion you made. It's perfectly possible you were just lazy and/or unattentive to timescales or whatever, but I'd quite like to know what is what is what. It was a DIRECT response to your META town read on OO. I am not calling OO scum based on that. I was calling him not-a-town-read. You answered how he was not playing at ALL like his scum meta in Hydra. So I looked at his town games and found that your meta case is bollocks. Fruity was included there because those were the games I looked at and any numbskull can see that OO is not playing a similar game at all. So once again. How did you have a meta read on OO? Now answer the damn question and stop deflecting.
I believe I also mentioned in one of my posts in Hydra that I intended to up my game. I cut the spam. I cut most of the trolling (sorry can't resist it all the time). My goal is to step up my play every game, as everyone's should be; where the problem begins is how low I started. If I matched my old town meta completely I would be ashamed.
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