EPTmoology = mocsta
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moology = mocsta | ||
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Note, i havnt been reading this game.. and its 1am here and im watching UFC so prob wont make a meaningful post for at least 12hrs. I havnt got my role PM either, so i can say this freely LYNCH DARTH PUNK! ahaha | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:56 layabout wrote: Dammit why do have to go kill grey? Mocsta please note that our entire day 1 is about the length of your LX filter Is that a subtle way of asking me not to be verbose? | ||
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On March 19 2013 01:57 layabout wrote: You also shouldn't be allowed to post without a role PM. That is cheating. Touche.. will not respond further till i get one. was just giving a heads up that i havnt read any of the game Over n Out | ||
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Rejoice! For I am Town! | ||
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On March 19 2013 03:19 DoYouHas wrote: - I am still confident in my zarepath read from day 1, but that has been rehashed enough already, and it seems fruitless to pursue that further until there is more content or until we get to day2. I agree DYH Im up to p15 and my two strongest reads are: GoodKarma + zarepath zarepath already from his first 10 posts, is posting completely different to the 3-4 games I played with him in the past 1 to 2 months (he was town in all of them). 3rd read = weak is Vivax from his first post.. very odd reads, but will reevaluate as i read more of the thread. | ||
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On March 19 2013 07:11 VisceraEyes wrote: Vivax to put it as Mocsta would: Your logical fallacy is Appeal to Popularity. Just because a lot of people agreed with it doesn't mean it's a good case. It's an EFFECTIVE case in that it convinced a lot of people, but that doesn't mean that the points are valid. Thnx for the love  haha i did give u one of those in nomination IIRC Btw, did you get my join ##SAST msg? | ||
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On March 19 2013 08:09 Vivax wrote: Anyway, working on another massive dump. Brb yo. Metamucil can help with ya constipation I heard | ||
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On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote: Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him. First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. U SCUM Whats the point of this post.. you either like him or you dont.. this is overly verbose and you condemn him whilst proceeding to nurture him. U SCUM | ||
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On March 19 2013 09:43 goodkarma wrote: EBWOP: If you think I'm scum make an actual case, and use your time more productively. For blatant scummy play like yours, there is no need for a case why do i need to convince YOU, you are scum. I pegged you as scum from the first 10 pages I read.. and now at page 43, your still scum.. its as clear as water. We must cleanse the town of this BadKarma | ||
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On March 19 2013 10:08 zarepath wrote: Because I'm town and too many people think that I'm not. I didn't have much time to play over the weekend and wasted it by saying noncommittal things and then bouncing, making it look worse. And you're still doing.... pointless post just like BadKarma | ||
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On March 19 2013 10:13 zarepath wrote: What did you think of my case on Hopeless1der? Nobody has responded to it yet. In other news, I like Trance's point on Wiggles -- his post could be scum prepping for a Greymist town flip. Will be looking into that more. You do that. I have a firm opinion on that post; so will be interesting what you decide to muster. | ||
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Thoughts on what zarepath raised in regards to Mr.Wiggles GOGOGO | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:12 zarepath wrote: Can you explain how your super strong town read only had two people he suspected, one of which flipped blue, and has said nothing post-flip? I don't think that shutting down cases is that necessarily pro-town when you have no other real suspects of your own. It is easy and risk-free to shut down rogue cases that threaten to gain traction when the main suspects aren't scum. Town zarepath doesnt speak like this, nor considers options like this | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:18 VisceraEyes wrote: I feel like I'm in some Bizarro-world where Mocsta wants to play like Vivax and Vivax wants to play like Mocsta, and both are failing hard. :/ I thought im offering sage advice for the SAST Expound? P.S Rejoice! For I am Town!  | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Stop playing like a dick Mocsta I hate this style of posting. Be better, I know you can. In all seriousness, what are you talking about? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:23 VisceraEyes wrote: Stop playing like a dick Mocsta I hate this style of posting. Be better, I know you can. Why are you being intentionally antagonistic in a meaningless way? What are you trying to achieve by calling me out in this manner? I know you can be better than this... | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:29 VisceraEyes wrote: This is the bullshit I'm talking about. The last game I saw you in as town there was like NO QUESTION that you were town. In this game, you snipe at people and appear to be trying to pick fights with people. It's like....scummy. And I know you're better than that as scum, so I'm left wondering what the fuck is going on. I still dunno what you talking about.. im calling out dodgy posts.. are you trying to tell me you have a town read on GK? So by virtue you are chainsaw defending GK? is this the intention? Or are you just weary eyed? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:32 VisceraEyes wrote: *sigh* Whatever I don't even care right now. Do whatever you want. No.. dont back the fuck down.. Do you have a town read on GK or not... | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:36 zarepath wrote: The last game that I played with Mocsta, he was scum and this was exactly how he started his play -- calling anything remotely scummy very scummy in quick, dramatic one-liners. When he was town he actively tried to promote discussion with thoughtful questions for literally everybody, and he had huge cases that I hated because they took forever to get to their good points, but clearly took a long time to make. I am waiting for more posts like that to have a town read on Mocsta. Than I shall be scum to you for the rest of the game. | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:39 VisceraEyes wrote: Wait bish I have lots of reads. If you have lots of reads, it wont be a problem to divulge one simple read out of what? a 24 player game? Fact: You come in throwing dirt on me, without trying to divine my alignment Fact: I been calling GK scum You now won't share me your thoughts on GK - or giving an excuse to buy time Do you see the same problem I see? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:42 VisceraEyes wrote: Nope. Enlighten me. haha that made me laugh; nice way to diffuse the situation , will have to store that in the memory bank Do you have a problem I am calling out GK/zarepath or not? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:45 VisceraEyes wrote: No I thought I made it clear that it's the MANNER in which you're calling them out that I'm taking issue with. So wats ya point of "taking this issue" publicly. What is your purpose? | ||
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are you trying to simulate ya scum from from hydra or something? | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah I could swear you just said something along the lines of you wanting to stop this...? But yeah Mocsta, this is shit play reminiscent of your end of day Hydra mafia scum shenanigans. I never thought I'd ask this, but where's the 26-page-filter Mocsta we've all come to know and love? I dont see how anything I have done is scummy.. u guys based way too much on post style which is easily changed do u think im trying to create chaos? cos that would be my inteniton as scum.. sit by idly and pretend im reading the thread unfortunately I am still on page 22... but I saw a shitty post from GK and called him out for it.. than zarepath made a shitty post and i called him otu for it... FACT: there posts were so shitty, id idnt need to read the thread to know they had a scummy vibe.. its classic scum.. big post that says nothing, or remains at a null conclusion If you think I am doing the same thing in my posts today.. then perhaps you need to stop playing mafia.. my intention was been pretty clear cut, blunt, and aggressive. And it all points towards hunting scum. | ||
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On March 19 2013 11:59 Ace wrote: I just recently got my role guys, going to read the thread from Day 1 later and start casting votes ^_^ At least you got urs.. all mine says is i am town lol I dont actually know what my "role" is | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:32 Wade Fell wrote: and I won't get lynched. Potentially....but I put more faith in you're never getting shot | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:39 Wade Fell wrote: As an aside, another reason I masoned GK is that I've interacted with him in QTs before when I coached him, and I knew I'd be able to get a perfect read on him from doing so, as well as help his scumhunting. Coming in as a replacement. I noticed you keep trying to reenforce you know GK well cos you coached him I find, a one time admission of this is usually what a town player does. But you have done it repeatedly, leading to two conclusions (1) You hope you have town cred, and trying to make an appeal to popularity for GK to be town (2) You are establishing a minor "newbie" shroud over GK, essentially an additional appeal Considering I dont have a town read at all from GK... and factoring your coach comments above AND CONSIDERING AS WELL you're a much more meek and timid personality (comp. Mafia LX). I would bank you are both scum Sandroba said it best...Let me remind you. On March 16 2013 22:24 sandroba wrote: BH is trying to emulate his previous behavior. | ||
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Mafia LX, I pictured you as this alpha male, big chest deep voice This game, I can fully visualise the man in the podcast with that high pitched voice. | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:45 Wade Fell wrote: Unlike you I don't have to make up for being hideously bad at mafia by resorting to ad hominem attacks. Does the pitch of the voice or the size of my enormous gargantuan epeen have any bearing whatsoever on the game? You're just trying to make me mad. And let me tell you this, geript: it ain't gonna work. You can't stop me from scumhunting with cheap emotional attacks. Unlike you am I above such things. Keep trying to emulate you're Mafia LX play | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:47 Wade Fell wrote: In Mafia LX I pictured you as useful and trying to help town, because you were This game, you're just insulting people for no discernable reason. Get your head in the game mocsta Classic scum launch ad-hom and avoid commenting on the crux of what i said | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:48 geript wrote: Nutter butter Moc? can not compute? | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:49 Wade Fell wrote: Is your criticism of me the fact that I'm playing meek, or the fact that I'm playing aggro? You say "oh BH is meeker than he was in LX, so he is scum" but also that I'm being aggressive to emulate my play in LX. You can't have it both ways. Lol.. what i wrote is very clear cut im not going to paraphrase it for you, because you have shown no effort to attack the argument (yet) | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:49 Wade Fell wrote: Is your criticism of me the fact that I'm playing meek, or the fact that I'm playing aggro? You say "oh BH is meeker than he was in LX, so he is scum" but also that I'm being aggressive to emulate my play in LX. You can't have it both ways. Ahh i misread what you wrote lol.. u dont get it, so let me paraphrase Im finding you timid You are trying to emulate your aggressive play, but its not manifesting itself that way.. you are timid and meek | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:52 Wade Fell wrote: My meta defense of GK has convinced plenty of people he's town. He wasn't even a lynch target. He can come in and confirm I was in a Mason QT with him D1. He is not scum. I am not scum. If you view this as a mark against me, so be it; I will demonstrate we have bigger fish to fry tomorrow. Yes, I would expect you to be a valid NK target if town, based on the knowledge of your "role" Pls leave your reads before nights end. | ||
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On March 19 2013 13:57 Wade Fell wrote: I'm not emulating my confident play-- my play, if you don't count my blue actions, is utterly confident. Yes, my choice of mason targets was cautious, but I was unable to post as much as I'd like during D1 because TPS and sandro's cycles lined up. The fact of the matter is, I had more to gain and far less to lose from masoning GK than from masoning one of my scumreads, especially when those scumreads are TPS and Testsubject, both of whose intransigence would likely not translate well to a mason QT. Was GK a newbie, and probably easily impressioned by me? Sure, of course. But on the other hand, he's also a newbie who has been coached by me. He knows how I think and how I hunt scum. Of all the various newbies in this game to mason, GK is the most likely to figure me out if I am scum. Of all the various vets in this game to mason, Ve is the most ly likely to figure me out if I am scum. My blue actions are for discussion scumreads, and cautious, but if I were scum they'd be hideously risky. I'd really feel better if GK were here to talk also *nudge nudge* Course u do, it would be coordinated if GK was here. I dont like this BH.. this reads as a politician trying to sway me around "I had more to gain and far less to lose." Blah Blah Blah Town BH is Motherfucker.. i did this, its the right choice, dont question me Keep up those meek and timid speeches scum If u want me to start pulling Mafia LX quotes and providing contrast I shall oblige... if u havnt forgotten (MilkSuckler- me) and you had epeen battles in LX.. and this is going radically different. Now that game I am town... this game im town That game you were town.. this game.. (well surely u can spot the difference) | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:00 Wade Fell wrote: Like I could have masoned Glurio or Vivax or Hyaach and none of those guys know me remotely well enough to finger my scum play via Mason QT. There are also plenty of plausible vets to mason, from Kitaman to DYH to Wiggles. I masoned people who have interacted with me extensively because as a town player, that's where I have most to gain. And yes, I am aware as a scum player I could just mason who I'd mason as town and this seems WIFOMey, but it's not WIFOM: It's WTHTD (link), Wine That's Harder To Drink. My actions make perfect sense as town, and although as scum I might do them just to appear town, it would be enormously risky to do so. I dont have your experience, but with common sense. I mason with people I think are town and trying to run ideas together with Why mason a scum read, who would lead u in circles and then shoot you? The benefit in my opinino of a town mason, is the ability to "hydra"... so im gonna be very curious about these logs BH ve Can you please confirm the agenda of discussion BH was pushing with you? Was he trying to discuss reads; or just push GK? | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:04 WaveofShadow wrote: It wouldn't be coordinated though would it? I thought the mason 'connection' ends with each phase, meaning his connection now is with VE? If you look at his earlier posts defending GK he is trying to coordinate a defense there and sounds pretty confident aside from when GK basically leaves him in the lurch and doesn't show up. Which posts specifically lead you to believe he is acting rather than actually going through with 'motherfucker' BH, Mocsta? This will drop my credibility of attack. But in fairness. I am only familiar with the posts from 7->20 and 40 -> 47 In those posts, BH is timid (in particular his opening).. im not aware of modkill threatens. So ima take a step back and re-evaluate P.S. the coordination wasnt in reference to mason QT lol | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:07 Wade Fell wrote: Look, you guys can say "Blazinghand isn't playing like he did last game" all you want, but last game D1 scum was obvious, and every day after that I had a red check on an obvious scum player. I'll reference Mario mini where people said "BH isn't playing like his town play" and basically wehre after me for meta reasons (link) You bought yourself time with this argument. I have no counter, because the point is indeed valid. | ||
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On March 19 2013 14:09 Wade Fell wrote: Not because of your read on me, VE-- at the end of D1 EVERYONE had a townread on me basically. Because we've played dozens of games together, and out of everyone here you are the single player who knows me best. If there's anyone in this game I wouldn't mason as scum, it would be you. Not because of your reads, not because you're some super scumhunter (though you are talented), but because you know me best. That's why you and GK are both risky for me as a scum player to mason, but both excellent for me as a town player to mason: you know me well. This isn't WIFOM, it's WTHTD. Nah.. i masoned a guy in personality that knew me best out of everyone.. and i was scum its even more powerful if you can convince that guy you are town.. surely that skill level is not beneath u BH? not buying that argument. | ||
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All The guy Kei replaced.. was he a town, null or scum read? | ||
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Ahh k.. well in that case, i will push the read back to null then :0 U gotta work for the love dear | ||
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Im just gonna put it out there.. im finding this interaction odd.. im not saying its scummy... theres just something peculiar about it, feels forced | ||
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Lots of agreeing with what the originator says.. and not taking hard stances im not sold on him being town The towniest thing GK did was recommened you mason ya best townr ead.. BUT that is not alignment indicative.. its common sense. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote: BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now). If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him. Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think. That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read. | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too. I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table. Actually for me the tell was how he went about discussing Geript.. Maybe i have been conned, but I read genuine consideration being given.. My take was that BH is instinctively driven to lynch a player like Geript (too much deviation in play styles). As scum he could EASILY push that lynch on that validation. Instead, he is actively querying other peoples thoughts to see if its just him being tunneled, or there is something there. Now yes, scum coudl be fishing on a push.. but lets be serious.. Geript is lynchbait, you dotn need to go to that effort to validate the push. I am reading this as a town guy trying to actively put consideration into his targets. As I said before.. the Log format is a fuckn bitch to read.. so I would like to read it one more time (will prob copy/paste the logs into word or soemthing.. just to confirm im not missing some funny business.. but I think that he handled Geript the same to both VE and GK gives consistency to the tell. (He didnt know he was gonna post the mason log either remember!) Thoughts WoS? | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:27 Keirathi wrote: @sciberbia: I'm not interested in lynching zare right now. For one, I don't know his meta and I don't have time to read it tonight. But for two, he's mostly reading as newbie town to me. I completely disagree with his case on Hopeless, but that's because I am very familiar with Hopeless' play. But otherwise, he brought up some solid points on Hopeless and Wiggles. He seems to be trying to figure things out like a newbie town would. My biggest problem with his play, actually, is him playing the newbie card. But that's not enough that I'm interested in him for now. He's fine to leave alive a bit longer and see how things progress. U liked his first post? As a funny tidbit: zarepath done some weird shit as newbie town. Last game i played with him, he wrote a fake case on someone he had a town read on.. to gauge reactions.. the fake case was so good. the target (WaveofShadow IIRC pertty much gave up LOL) | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:35 Keirathi wrote: No, I didn't "like" his first post. It is full of bad rationale and terrible arguments ("Someone told me that VE always claims town in his opening post, but him doing it this game is scummy anyways"). But that's not exactly the kind of things I expect a newbie scum to say either. Honestly, it feels like a newbie town trying to have a good reason to start posting, but failing. His thoughts are free-flowing and not pre-constructed. He's not being "clean" with them. Etc/etc. Interesting. set my scumdar off.. because its a whole bunch of saying nothing. Hmm.. Kk, i will relook into him without the bias | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:37 WaveofShadow wrote: I havnt read anything of Geript other than his RNG push, so perhaps im talking out of turn..You call Geript lynchbait...has he actually been as such this game? Looking into his filter his read on zare is more or less what I came up with on him, and he does a decent job attempting to press his reads. Sure he gets trolly later on with BH but if you look at his play in the most recent NMM he has discovered his balls, apparently. But i stand by him being lynch bait.. he gets emotionally flustered too quickly. Geript admits freely he has been voted Least Valuable Town numerous times.. so yeah. I dunno what to expect from a scum Geript; but based on my heuristic of a lynchbait Geript.. I think BH reasoning is town aligned. U didnt actually comment on your thought; other than geript isnt lynchbait? Do you think his logs feel forced in general? | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:39 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, my point is, I don't have a "Yep, I'm sure this guy is town. There's no way we're lynching him" read on zare. But, I am not interested in lynching him tomorrow. I'm more than happy to give him time to contribute and get a better read on. I can run with that reasoning.. because.. even though i dont like his play.. the points raised are valid enough to give credence to town motivations. We shoulda hydraed keir | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:43 Keirathi wrote: As an aside, lets do some setup speculation. How likely is it that there are 2 town aligned masons, with Nightmare already flipping? Granted, Nightmare was a mason-vig, but Mason is a pretty damn strong role. In games with temporary masons, you don't often see them so lopsided, numbers wise :o No idea IIRC Mafia LIX had 6 masons from memory out of 30 players | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:43 WaveofShadow wrote: Is there a particular you have dodged the question @ hand 2 or 3 times in a row?I don't think the RNG push means anything, it's just him putting on his troll shoes imo. You make a good point though that every game I've played in with Geript he has been town so I wouldn't know meta-wise what to expect from Geript. I guess I've been unconsciously assuming he's town since his play fits the past 3 games. | ||
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yes that sounds about right from memory i beleive Dr.H said this is a normal game with flavour (and closed setup) So we arent ognna expect fucked imbalance or uber roles (like in personality) I think out of 25 players.. 5scum.. perhaps 6 (if no 3rd party) 5-8 blues (maybe more blues to compensate for closed setup). but blues might be additional masons or whatever Im not sure if we can really speculate from 1 flip though? | ||
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On March 19 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote: You want a solid read spelled out for you? Fine. I don't think Geript is scum. I have null-leaning town. Thats the thing. I was never talking about Geript? I was talking about BH logs, and the impact on my read on BH... how is this not clear? | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:05 DoYouHas wrote: Gotta say, that instantly makes me like a zarepath lynch much less. Im not following? Its all WIFOM right? If you want more WIFOM, Kei just caught VE in hydra.... | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:11 WaveofShadow wrote: You have, I don't know how much of a vet GK is, Mr Wiggles, Mocsta.... THnx, but i am certianly not a vet.. check my profile. Started playing in the new year 2013 | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:16 WaveofShadow wrote: More so than me and most of the other 'newbies' named on his list, Mocsta. The list just looks to me like he's looking for easy scumreads to throw out there with minimal chance of being called out if he's wrong because they're either new/bad or lurky. I think you are takign the wrong approach. Dr.H i believe on the podcast is true advocate of RNG (with no host post-hoc balance).. hence. the scum team is just as likely being 5 vets and 5 newbies. . its not out of the question for 5 newbies to be his read. I think the right approach is to ask his insight to why those people are scummy.. he doesnt need a case to explain why.. just dot point aspects of play that dont sit right. Ascertain if he is being genuine with his reads, or taking the easy road. (im still on page 20 lol so i cant do this pressure.. i can only comment on things happening in the thread live) | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:16 sciberbia wrote: I highly value Keirathi's opinion. The fact that he was town means that his opinion was in fact that zarepath is town. I still think zarepath is reasonably likely to be scum, but I'm less confident than I was 2 hours ago as a result of Keirathi's townread and flip. It was pretty fuckn clear Keir was town without a flip... | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:16 sciberbia wrote: I highly value Keirathi's opinion. The fact that he was town means that his opinion was in fact that zarepath is town. I still think zarepath is reasonably likely to be scum, but I'm less confident than I was 2 hours ago as a result of Keirathi's townread and flip. Moreso. whats peculiar here is that WoS and my reads on zarepath are influenced by knowning him. Guys like you/Kei have never played with zarepath before.. What kei picked up was NOT rocket science.. im curious how he seems to be the ?first? guy pushing those view points is odd... When i get home and do my thread read: im going to pay very careful attention to who pushed zarepath | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:20 VisceraEyes wrote: I took a hit. I'm....not sure what that implies. I'm gonna sleep on it. I love you, town. Maybe scum medic saved u? | ||
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sometimes its just the simplest solution heres a pool of guys talking sense who is the LEAST likely to be protected ahh keir.. lets shoot him | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:27 Wade Fell wrote: DYH speculating that much on night actions is typically not worthwhile. I think if you're worried about the direction town is going in you're best off rereading filters with fresh eyes and advising other to do the same rather than burrowing into WIFOM Agreed in full | ||
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i dont give a shit how tired he was... | ||
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At least we know now that the fool is a town aligned role | ||
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On March 19 2013 16:36 DarthPunk wrote: SO when you claim to be a vet after you get shot you are 100% confirmed to all of us. Gents, we are at an impasse vet is stupid to crumb VE knows this Obviously u have a vested interest because of the case; but it is 3am over in the US. Best I can offer is to comment on ya case tonight once i caught up on the thread. | ||
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So in a nutshell: You dont want to lynch BH, because he is either town or scum... you substituted blue for town, but its the same thing... And... You dont want to lynch TPS because he is null after looking at 4 Exhibits ======================== Who is your vote preference this cycle? & Delving into your read of TPS accusations about opting out of town discussion Do you think TPS parked his vote on Coag, and proceeded to beat off whilst lurking? or Do you think he was trying to pressure Coag to discern his alignment? | ||
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On March 19 2013 17:08 Mocsta wrote: Indulge me.. why are guys like Coagulation being allowed to fly under the radar? On March 19 2013 21:42 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta While filtering you I found this. I'm actually leaning town on Coag. Hence, no need to bring him up. And I suspect the rest of the thread lives in terror of having their head bitten off if they dare try to make a read on him. Anyway, if you've played with Coag before, what say you to this: I haven't played with him before so not sure. Regardless, he hasnt slipped off my radar; and with where I am up to on the thread, I have him as a null troll. Will be keeping tabs on him this cycle; sure there will most likely be at least one or two active mafia.. but the rest typically love to lurk in the shadows. With the GreyMist mislynch as my context: my goal this cycle is to look into what/whom *Wasnt* discussed. But for now, sleep | ||
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On March 19 2013 22:03 zarepath wrote: Since VE isn't really high priority today we can just wait a day and see if mafia kill two people or not and deal with that when we get there. I am still going through filters for a full list of reads. At first I consider BH's masoning of me to be really scummy but after reading the other convos he seems legit, so I'll be looking elsewhere. zarepath And the point of this? Kei might have given you a townish read; but Im still assessing you critically. Lets see what this post says (1) Please leave VE alone (2)I am null on BH masoning me [i](not that anyone actually asked)]/i], I want to say publicly I am contributing, but simultaneously dunno who I should look into ============== Care to explain why a townie would post a crock of shit such as that? & considering the above is a big bunch of nothing... why are you so quick to "contribute" by interjecting to prevent discussion about VE? | ||
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On March 20 2013 11:19 zarepath wrote: If Ace is so amazing why hasn't he solved this game yet And I think the butthurt isn't strong enough yet, Mocsta needs to make an appearance and hurt some butts YOLO I am ashamed to admit it.. but im still only up to page 22, been flat out @ work and real life. I can keep up with the dynamics happening since I joined, but to start considering who i want to build a case on, i need the context of Day1 (which is missing) Even though the game is low on post count.. im finding it hard to read, dunno why. *I must say* I didnt care for your approach to my questioning yesterday. yes I was overtly aggressive But you proceeded to not answer the question I wrote at the end. That response isnt scummy on its own... but considering I am sure you are aware that you are on my watch list; it is surprising the effort wasnt made to satiate my thirst for knowledge. | ||
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On March 20 2013 11:07 geript wrote: Can someone make a rational reasoned case for why we're pushing Zarepath off the block entirely as well? I've seen nothing change from him and the only real reasoning saying otherwise was Keriethi's comment. I get Keriethi but is that a reason to stop pressure entirely. In my opinion the reasoning was enough to relegate zarepath to the watch actively list. i.e. pay careful attention to his actions & concentrate filter time on other suspects. ========== What I want to know from you Is what do you think of the people that instantly said "zare must be town, cos Kei flipped town" By what do i think; I actually infer: What is your opinion of the situation? i.e. is it valid reasoning? & Is this type of reasoning; alignment indicative? If so, which direction? | ||
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On March 20 2013 11:44 WaveofShadow wrote: Meh. Since I'm honestly sick of every game going the same way for me, I'm going to have a little fun with this I think. I'll leave it up to you guys: do you a) Want me to attempt to defend myself or, b) Ignore all of this shit and make everyone on this bandwagon feel really silly tomorrrow? Sigh...I always seem to bring this upon myself...you'd think I'd learn. WoS I havent read the case on you; nor read the game in detail to know whether i agree/disagree based on your play. What i do know for certain is: I have yet to see a non-newbie town WoS keel over like this. If I contrast the above with your past 3 games - all of which I have been involved
I actually believe what you say "you're sick of every game going this way" - i.e. being cast under suspicion in non-newbie games. The problem here is the pattern of a town WoS.. when under threat, WoS says "fuck u, im town... *THIS* is the scum you should be voting for. Instead, we get a limp "Can I have permission to defend myself, or if I have to by request, I will build an alternative case". Yes frustrated town can say what you did. but. i did not read the above as a post filled with frustration. I read the post as carrying tone exemplified as more indicative of demoralization. something i would naturally correlate with scum.; in particular given your town patterns when cornered. So yes, I havent read the case, or the game in detail to judge your play.. But I have seen enough of you to sufficiently judge your response. ##Vote: WaveofShadow | ||
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On March 20 2013 11:59 sciberbia wrote: Hi all. I plan to be here for the next several hours. I agree with the general sentiment that lynching either BH or VE is dumb today as a matter of general strategy. here is no really strong evidence that either of them is scum. I don't think they should be lynch candidates. Sci.. the above is interesting.. so far the only case I noticed on VE is from DarthPunk. Henceforth, the corollary is that the DP case on VE is rubbish (i..e not really strong) Lets get context here: DP is a strong player.. after all DP does have the highest win ratio on the TL Database. And has had scum and town games that have all resulted in the same outcome.. victory With that context: Do you expect more substance from a town DP? If the case is "not strong' as you suggest, what impact does this have on your DP read? | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:51 geript wrote: I'd take it on a case by case basis. Off the top of my head, I think it's scummy that (iirc) the people who instantly dismissed it haven't been trying to push someone else or really even pressure other people. Especially since in reviewing his filter, nothing has changed in my mind. He's still coming off as unsure and guarded (continued meta inconsistency). I really hated his last post re: stirring up the thread (steering towards negative town atmosphere). The fishing for information re: VE's role name rubbed me the wrong way too (information gathering). It just seems absolutely insane to me that so many people came off as 50/50 on Zare/GM but unwilling/unwanting to keep pressure on him whatsoever. That doesn't match town mentality in my book. Could you clarify what you mean by this exactly? I'm not quite sure I answered your questions but I'm also not sure I got what you were asking. You answered it. I was subtlely asking for a "scenario" alignment read on layabout Now you know he is who I was asking about.. would you agree once more, that the action is of a scummy nature? | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:48 WaveofShadow wrote: Hey Mocsta. You want to read my last 5-6 posts and check again? ##Unvote Agreed.. its funny, i wrote my (meta-case) on you based on that lone post. I checked ya filter just now, and indeed, I am getting frustation; and you trying to push others. That satisfies what I deem to be your town meta. I think its important to consider what you wrote here: On March 20 2013 11:53 WaveofShadow wrote: Lol I love all the people coming out of the woodwork now just to toss an easy lynch vote on me. So amusing. VERY FUCKING TRUE... Guys, mafia is having a field day with this.... take a step back and look how it unfolded is my suggestion. Scum is there to be found. | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:59 WaveofShadow wrote: Mocsta did you even fucking read this page? Yes I did. Response is above. | ||
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I dont want this request below to be lost. On March 20 2013 11:59 sciberbia wrote: Hi all. I plan to be here for the next several hours. I agree with the general sentiment that lynching either BH or VE is dumb today as a matter of general strategy. here is no really strong evidence that either of them is scum. I don't think they should be lynch candidates. On March 20 2013 12:55 Mocsta wrote: Sci.. the above is interesting.. so far the only case I noticed on VE is from DarthPunk. Henceforth, the corollary is that the DP case on VE is rubbish (i..e not really strong) Lets get context here: DP is a strong player.. after all DP does have the highest win ratio on the TL Database. And has had scum and town games that have all resulted in the same outcome.. victory With that context: Do you expect more substance from a town DP? If the case is "not strong' as you suggest, what impact does this have on your DP read? In addition: please add in the context that DP de-lurked specifically to bandwagon WoS. What is your DP read pl0x | ||
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On March 20 2013 12:15 Coagulation wrote: I dont think WOS is scum. but my reads are pretty shit this early in the game so take it with a grain of salt. Coagulation I agree honey. All this bandwagoning for WoS has cut me deeply  Now... I dont want my blood to spray freely, some coagulation would be nice Can you please share some pointers to why you think WoS is town; when everyone else is sheeping freely. I have a good reason to ask, but can explain post-hoc. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:18 DarthPunk wrote: I think you'll find that before I bandwagoned WOS taht I posted a question to coag. and that that question was from about 10 pages back in the thread. So If you were really paying attention you would realise that I had just come back and started to read things. So in essence. NO. I did not 'delurk' to bandwagon WoS. I came back. read the thread. read kita's case which i feel to be very strong, and then voted for WoS based on that. What are you trying to say here? that you think I am scum? if you are how about YOU in fact say it rather than try and prompt others into saying it for you. Nice interjection DP. Curious is it not? I had a premonition that you wanted to know Sciberbia read on you? I thought I was doing you a favour dear. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:29 DarthPunk wrote: WTF are you talking about? I don't care what people's reads on me are unless I am about to get mislynched. Interesting choice of words. Personally, its a favourite move of mine to throw in the word 'mislynch" when scum. Its a soft-town claim as I am sure you are aware. In fact, I used the word in hydra when under the pump Lets be fair: Yes, town can say it.. but.. truth be told. I havent seen a town say it until they under genuine pressure of lynch.. And well, you are simply not in that position are you?. so it is fascinating that you choose to overreact and beat this drum so hard so early. Now in case you are struggling to piece together my motives. Let me be transparent. I am still trying to ascertain whether this game you can indeed get mislynched. So when I am asking others for opinions on YOU.. I think its bullshit to over-react and cut in like you did. now my questions to sciberbia are tainted all because of your 'choice of actions' and impatience. I am not trying to elicit stances for funsies. Everything has a purpose. And so far.. I got way more than I expected... WAY MORE. As for the criteria you raised earlier. + Show Spoiler + OK, you voted for WoS post-kita case, and pre-WoS limp "permission" post which you decided to call out. Do you want a pat on the back for making the follow up? & You can also continue to over-react over my choice of word in "de-lurk" which perhaps can be rephrased as decided to make your first post in essentially one hour. As for your spiel about calling scum directly instead of "prompting". Trust me, when I want to call you scum. I shall... and if others want to call you scum, it wont be because *I* gave them permission to either. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:48 DarthPunk wrote: Zarepath is in a scummy little basket along with along with TPS, Layabout and Cosmic. The problem with all these people is that A.) I have never played with them before so it is hard to tell if they are just always scummy/lynchbait or if there is something wrong. B.) I am scared of mislynching into lynchbait. Im personally worried about layabout. I didnt find him townie in Mafia LX, but quite a few vets did. I havnt compared filters, but I am getting a gut feeling difference betwen the two games. Hes posts are still infrequent, but seems more I guess.. belligerent this game. Hes a priority fitler read for me at the moment. | ||
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On March 20 2013 13:58 DarthPunk wrote: Yes, you can treat the event however you want.Read any of my last 5 town games. Z-Boson once brought up that it was part of my meta that I never used the word mislynch as a townie and that I solely did so as scum. Since then I have started to use the word as both alignments. Now I wasn't reacting because I was the focus of whatever you were trying to do with sciberbia. I was reacting because you were phrasing what seemed to be a question in a way that seemes to lead others to draw the conclusion that you wished. That, to me, does not seem like a genuine attempt to gather information and then draw a conclusion. That to me seems like an attempt to find information that reaches the conclusion you wish it to reach. and THAT is scummy as fuck. This has created a new question for me though I would like you to address pl0x Context: In your opinion I phrased some of your thread interactions as scummy. I subsequently asked someone for their opinion of you. You are concerned that I am trying to 'lead" them to calling you scummy. (i.e. force their conclusion ============== Q: For you to react this way, you must think that Sciberbia is easily influenced. (1) What is your alignment position on Sciberbia? I did the same thing with Geript and Layabout, and Geipt came back with a town-ish read.. (2) Why are you so worried that Sciberbia would find you scummy? - Enough to interject at the least. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:06 DarthPunk wrote: Actually look at this post. He says he isn;t calling me scum. But he is colouring my quotes in red, look at how is doingg everything EXCEPT stating I am scum. and then he says this in the EXACT POST with RED QUOTES he states he doesn't know if I am scum or not, which is contrary to every other thing in the exact same post. He is being wishy-washy. This doesn't add up at all. Honey.. i picked up red quotes from supersoft & toadesstern - you gonna tell them as well that its scummy? Red quotes stand out better than bold - ironically, the first time SS used red quotes on me, I was scum, and shat myself... i didnt have the guts to make the post you just did.. so thats a benefit in ya favour. It just happens that a quote i found scummish and wanted it to stand out. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:08 sciberbia wrote: Also, the fact that DP did not already know and therefore point out to you that I think he is town is comforting.. I agree with this. Its an interesting contrast to WoS who is using references from me/Coag and co and part of his defense. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:13 sciberbia wrote: @Mocsta I really think this line of questioning is going nowhere. Off the top of my head, I can think of 5 times I have already said that I think the DP wagon is bad and that DP is town. If DP is in fact scum and does in fact care very much what I think about him, he would almost certainly have noticed this in my filter, and not been alarmed when you asked for my opinion. I agree with this point in full as I mentioned above. But my latest questions to DP have a different motive, so I would still like him to address them. | ||
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This can be put to rest pretty easily. I apologise for jumping the gun and making thread comments without reading even 1/4 of Day 1. Thats pure laziness on my behalf, and there is no excuse for it. Fact is, i think (and still think) you over reacted to my initial question on Sciberbia. Yes, it was suggestive, but in no way was it going to force a conclusion from him. And whether you care or not, the question was actually to gain a better understanding of sciberbia, not you. Though I admit I was lazy in (not) reading the thread, I am still happy we went through this dance, because now I have a good town read on you. As an aside: Ironically, you are doing the same thing you accuse me of doing. You dont call me out as scum; but say, my actions exhibit mafia mentality. | ||
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Now I find your question to WoS ironic, considering its leading nature. I dindt call WoS instantly town. i voted him based on a meta read & even admit i havent read kita case http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=69#1372 Guess what.. hes where i unvote - and guess whats, its founded upon my meta case. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=70#1383 I just read kita case (cos was quoted in WoS filter) personally I think the points from Kita are valid enough i dont think it was a fake case from scum. However, kita is writing as an experienced guy, and judging play on the same level as someone such as yourself WoS doesnt fall into that category; and for many of the points kita raised, I could see a townie mentality doing the same thing. the case was essentially damned if you; damned if you dont logic. WoS says stupid things each game.. seriously. Hydra: read their filter for the blue claim slip... Mafia LX: read his filter for his request to be pardoner... For me, the case is upheld *ONLY IF* WoS hasnt pushed a lynch agenda during Day1. Thats when a sheep vote to me is scummy. From the quick filter browse i did, it looked like he satisfied the above, thus, making the case invalid to me. | ||
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On March 20 2013 14:39 DarthPunk wrote: That's me calling you scummy buddy. The question is why were you asking suggestive questions at all? Rather than reading the thread you are saying you haven't read or asking questions that generate real evidence and not evidence that is biased by the very nature of those questions? OK bud. dude, u just played a game as scum in the same team as me. Yeah the game sentiment is different, but I can feel a complete difference in my confidence of posting. Maybe you didnt pay attention to my filter in that game, but heres a hint, i was very snide in personality2/hydra. It was my way of being "townie aggressive" and simultaneously casting doubt and having low time. I dont think I am being snide this game and I still have low time. Yes, I am being an asshole to some ppl, but thats not snide. I am not reading the thread cos im at work and been too busy @ home, and personally each time i have sat down to read Day1, i find the conversations really boring and cant motivate myself. I was initially excited by the low post count, but im finding many posts overly verbose and its a chore to read. Its just easier to interact in the now. So my "suggestive questions" are me trying to ascertain ppls alignment to short cut reading the thread. Im not ashamed to admit it. I think you are finding it scummy because you are involved in the line of questioning; the actual technique is alignment null. I dont see how it pushes a scum agenda, and if you do think I am scum, you're welcome to show me how it does. Also I dont think suggestive questions lead to biased information.. in fact, I think a suggestive question can lead to very hard evidence. But whatevs, thats a personal difference and im not here to debate heuristics with you. | ||
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On March 20 2013 15:06 geript wrote: Moc could you explain that logic more clearly. I'm not understanding that post at all. I can, if you let me know what you're struggling to follow. Surely its not the "whole thing" | ||
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On March 20 2013 15:45 TranceStorm wrote: I'm not quite seeing the scum that easily amongst the votes that developed on WOS? You suggest that this is where scum will be, but could you lend me a hand here? Wiggles vote was definitely dodgy, but I'm not seeing too much beyond that. If you already found one guy.. is this a serious question? | ||
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On March 20 2013 15:46 geript wrote: Here's what I mean: your problem with WoS as you summarize it is that in non-newb (non-first game) games he has more balls. You confront him on it. He turns on the 'balls factor.' You unvote based on said 'having balls' town read. Then you excuse the kita case essentially based on experienced player reading an experienced player when you say WoS isn't experienced and thus the whole case is invalid. There's nothing damning there and I can follow that at least. That said, I can't help but feel that this whole exchange is fishy because it comes off as you telling him how to act, then he acts that way, then you dismiss your vote and the case with a wave of the hand. (Pun intended). I categorize this as "Moc-type logic" but it still feels artificial to me. The last part is my real issue: You say the case is upheld only if WoS doesn't push a lynch agenda D1. Honestly, I didn't remember a lynch agenda from him D1 and the only points re:lynch are a +1 on DP and a preference on GM over Zare. He even noted his meta reads are crap; I think he also called my meta reads as crap (based on previous games where Zare had at least softclaimed town early). However, I don't remember him commenting on DYH's meta read at all. I don't see a real case push from WoS D1 which makes the case still stand then right? Wow Geript.. I wrote this whole post and said fuck it. im not gonna be lazy, I will read 6 pages of WoS. It changed everything. You are right. Kita case still stands. I was wrong. this fucker did not do anything until the Kita case (which is the only stuff I read when WoS asked me to look @ his filter my derp) I was under the impression he had pushed Mr.Wiggles all of Day 1.. obviously wrong. I dindt realise the majority of his filter came from late Night1/early Day 2. And also that the majority of his filter is just talking shit. There is not a clear agenda. I need to read WoS defense of Kita case one more time, because I wasnt satisfied the first time around; but was giving undue credit for pushing a case Day1. For your reference, the below is the post i was about to make before reading WoS filter. + Show Spoiler + (1) "Balls" Now for what you raised: I didnt unvote WoS because he turned the balls factor on... that would be invalid (cos i gave him a way out).. The way it went down: I skipped to the most recent page, saw that limp post of him and was like WTF, WoS doesnt play like that and made my meta validation vote post. It was that simple. I think its pretty obvious when i voted him, it was with intention to lynch. He then identified to me, that he had "balls" before the meta case. As such, the meta case post in my opinion became his saving grace. (2) Why lynch push is important I know you love poker. so let me me analogous to that. Pros expect a certain level of play, and can actually struggle against newbies, because they dont understand/conform to the "rules' of the game and make unpredicatable/stupid plays. I believe that was the basis of kitaman case on WoS. Those tells on someone like DP would indeed be the nail in the coffin. Unfortunately I dont find them as strong on newbies, because typically they are not as aware of what constitutes good play; or the ramifications of their own play. Hence why I said, Kita case points are indeed valid scum tells; but to me only point to a scum WoS if he hasnt pushed a lynch candidate hard. (That would be the turning point for me to consider the tells as scum, and not newbie town being unaware/stupid). (3) Is the case invalid - i.e. did WoS push anyone hard I need to do a proper read of his filter, instead of just a couple pages. Based on Day2 play, I thought he pushed ppl; hence my retraction of vote. Based on Day1 play, I havent read it (yet.. planning to tonight) If WoS indeed only discussed "Im not familiar to know these meta reads" and didnt push a lynch vote, then I would give serious consideration to Kita case, and most likely lead to a vote on WoS. Unfortunately, I am making a leap of faith currently that the targets WoS pushed today (i.e. Mr.Wiggles etc) are the same ppl from Day1. If that is the situation at hand, then I think Kita case is invalid in full. | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:00 goodkarma wrote: Regarding Wave: I'm really not liking Wave as a lynch candidate for today. The way in which Wave has defended himself feels like an indignant townie to me. After a rather stupid troll response to Kita's case, I feel he has put in a decent effort to defend himself. Yes, Kita's case is rather solid and Wave has acted pretty scummy. But I'm leaning toward him being a bad town. Please walk me though your read as bad town. What has he done specifically to sway you that way? Regarding Mr. Wiggles: This is weird.As for Mr. Wiggles, I'm not impressed with what he's had to say today. I feel that what he did in his night 1 post is pretty damning, and the lack of drive he seems to have today to step up his game has done nothing to convince me he isn't scum. His "excuse" seems to be that he can't spend all day playing this game. However, I refuse to believe he would need that long to have more reads than he's had (and some actual conviction behind them). As for Wave, the only person he's really pushed today, I'd argue he's an easy case to push regardless of alignment. I'm keeping my vote on Wiggles. And I encourage those still on Wave to take a serious look into his filter. I believe he's more likely to flip red than Wave is. If you think Wave has some likelihood to flip red.. why are you supporting a scum reads lynch candidate? | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:09 TranceStorm wrote: The implication you were driving at was that there were several mafia members driving the lynch. There is no need to be so vague in your questions. Just out your suspicions. Why? I dont know the scum team, so not inferring any knowledge of the sort. Anywho: Since when does scum infer plurality; Since when do scum have to be present at all times in the day to coordinate bandwagons TOGETHER? (Thats rhetorical if you choose to reply) | ||
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On March 20 2013 16:35 sciberbia wrote: I'm very happy you think so. I have other stuff to share about WoS too. Taking a quick food break though. When I read WoS filter (as per my post to Geript) I noticed the same things actually. Made me doubt WoS very much. The meta argument i made on wos doesnt hold. because he did not actually grow a pair of balls until AFTER the case. WoS commented as if he had done it all game, so when i looked back at this last 2 pages of filter i was like ohh ok, hes got balls all good.. and made a leap of faith it was in his other 4 pages. My meta case now actually supports Kita case. | ||
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To re-enforce your "case" on WoS.. this post in particularly stands out for me On March 20 2013 06:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright there we go, so there goes one of cosmic's points against you...that wasn't so hard. The other point (I don't care about the DP nonsense) that struck home for me was you fingering GK earlier on and then assuming he was town to make the case against BH. I'll link for your convenience: Do you agree with both BH and GK being scum partners and that the logs were faked? The reason I have a problem with this is because VE and I had the exact same interchange in the hydra scum QT Im not actually implicating VE here as scum; I am more so stating, this type of mindset has a much higher likelihood of originating from scum. (i.e. I noticed you did these scummy things.. but no one has picked up on it.. let me ask you some easy questions in the thread, so you can explain yourself nonchalantly and remove any suspicion) | ||
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relooking at the "defense" I cant believe he attributed 3/4 lines to defending the case.. and an equal amount of lines on subsequent posts. i.e. the amount he wrote, should have just been for the kita case Even the points 2-5 based on subsequent posts.. some of the defense is just not fleshed out. ##Vote: WoS | ||
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im more saying, if you want to get some sleep: i dont think a consolidated post is needed. WoS is going down. | ||
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*hes town for bringing that forward - yes im looking at you BH.*This is an alignment null contribution.. but those logs were such a bitch to read i had to format them so we could actually read them properly. + Show Spoiler [with GK] + 1 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 08:52 PM ET (US) Mason QT between GoodKarma and Wade Fell for D1 of The Game. 2 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:07 PM ET (US) Okay so the hosts are dragging their feet with setting up the Mason QT so I'll drop some stuff in here since I have to step out for a moment. My power works on a per-phase basis and I was hoping to mason you for D2 but the chance you can be lynched is too high, so instead I'm masoning you for D1 so I can work with you while you're still alive. In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push, besides my tiff with Testsubject and with TPS (which I need to step back from due to emotional issues, at least for today). I suggest we pool our thoughts and reads since you are a pretty good scumhunter when you have someone to bounce ideas off of. Mainly I am concerned with Mr. Wiggles. He is an aggressive scumhunter and a capable asset as town, but his scum play isn't as good, and I'm pretty sure this is scum Wiggles. He didn't seriously follow-up on his attack on you, and only when prodded has he posted in the thread. When he DOES post, he composes his posts quite well-- they look and smell like cases-- but he doesn't back them up and press them the way a town player who really wanted to lynch his target would. For example, he calls up Coag's meta to defend coag, then utterly ignores meta to attack you. I jumped through all kinds of hoops to deflect it and even now he's trying to get a mislynch off on you, despite admitting you're playing to your town meta. The other player that bothers me is Geript, but I think I might be emotionally against him and seeing things I shouldn't-- I'd like you to check my logic here. Geript has been actively opposing attempts of town to organize and scumhunt, but not in a way that relays concerns for town complacency or other dangers of VE's gambit. furthermore, he is focusing his attacks on the most productive and useful townies rather than try to develop cases or even push his main targets. Whenever there's pushback, he changes who he's attacking. Normally I'd be on him like white on rice, but I mislynched him last game and am worried I am misreading him now. I'm going to be rolling out an attack on Wiggles shortly. Do you have any thoughts? 3 goodkarma 03-17-2013 09:25 PM ET (US) Coaching session #2? My first thought is I'd hesitate to bring up another lynch candidate right now. There's only like a billion out there, and we need to be striving toward consolidating our votes on (hopefully) two candidates. We're late in the cycle, so as long as you have a decent scum read on one of the candidates (Greymist, Zeriph, or Darthpunk), I would recommend you push your vote on one of them instead. But as far as Mr. Wiggles is concerned, I don't have the meta read benefit that you do. I can look into him more in a bit, but my impression at this point is similar to your assessment insofar as I haven't seen him be very invested in this game. If he is a strong town player, then I would agree there's a decent chance he's scum. I'll also look at Geript in a little bit. 4 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:32 PM ET (US) Given the difficulty in getting this town to consolidate, I'm going to be pushing on GreyMist, since he's playing so far from his normal, useful meta (and has been also unwilling to follow up on his reads). I still am not convinced by the cases on Zarepath. I think he's a flailing townie who doesn't really know how to contribute-- the recklessness in his early posts tell me this. Regarding Wiggles, if he's town there's also a good chance he'll be shot tonight, so it could be more prudent to begin to pressure him tonight, then try to lynch him tomorrow if he's still not performing to his town standard. In any case, this QT and our ability to communicate will last until the end of today. I'm thinking of masoning with VE tonight, even though I don't have the strongest townread on him. Reason 1) if VE is town he's almost certainly the #1 mafia shot for tonight and this will be my only chance to talk to him in a QT Reason 2) if i get shot tonight ahead of a couple of the other head scumhunters, that (possibly) means that VE is scum and shot me to stop me from using my power more. So yeah I'll get my thoughts together for a defense of zarepath and an attack on greymist. 5 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 09:44 PM ET (US) Okay, I think I slammed GM pretty hard with that case. I am not 100% on Zarepath being town but defending him a bit should help get GM lynched. I'm gonna grab some dinner then come back and see if I can change some minds. 6 goodkarma 03-17-2013 10:16 PM ET (US) Yeah there's a chance Zerepath is a noobie townie. Though I don't like how he likes to bring up his newness to the format... I think that's a good approach to take with Mr. Wiggles. Looking at a town game, his play seems at least somewhat similar, so I would be inclined to give him time to prove if he's town or not. Geript could be scum. But with players that play as poorly as he does I tend to like to take in the big picture before coming to conclusions. After a few flips, it should be much clearer for me. As far as who you bring in, it's definitely up to you. But if it were me I'd focus on bringing in my strongest townreads. If you bring in a scum you'd become a high priority kill target. Just my two cents. 7 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 10:45 PM ET (US) On the other hand, I only have a couple strong townreads. I think I'll have to take a risk if I want to get rewards from this power. I get the feeling I'll be shot during the first few nights anyways, as always happens to me-- so I might as well try to make the most of my power. I still have some time to think it over. GreYMisT's martyring isn't particularly helpful. It kind of makes me think he's town, but I know I shouldn't think he's town just because he's martyring. I personally like the guy a great deal which is part of why. If he's scum though it's a clever low-cost way to sow doubt. 8 goodkarma 03-17-2013 11:11 PM ET (US) Martyring also happens to be against the rules... That aside, I don't see how martyring makes Greymist town. He hasn't tried at all to defend himself. Maybe if he was tired of defending endless accusations or something I could see a townie Greymist doing it, but he can't be bothered to lift a finger in his defense... It seems more like a scumtell to me for that reason. 9 Blazinghand 03-17-2013 11:25 PM ET (US) Yeah, that's a good point. I know intellectually that martyring is not a towntell obviously-- and the fact that he's not even writing cases in his final hours is the final nail in the coffin tbh. If I were town at least I'd try to get in a last word right 10 goodkarma 03-18-2013 01:48 AM ET (US) Since our QT time is almost up, let me take this opportunity to say it was a pleasure to share a QT with you again I wish I could have been more helpful with reads but tbh with the upcoming flips imho it's most prudent to look at everyone's filters again with a fresh mind. I'm going to be especially mindful of those who ignored/disregarded Greymist as a lynch candidate this cycle (I'm assuming he's going to flip scum). People like Hopeless and VE come to mind in that regard. The lack of resistance from Grey could also be from a pre-planned bus from scum. Something also I'm going to need to think about. It's a theory that at least would partially explain why Grey would ACTIVELY be in thread while not defending himself... Anyway, best of luck with your next guy. It's been fun Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:51 AM ET (US) You too GK. I suspect there's some possibility you'll be up as a lynch candidate for D2 but realistically speaking most people have figured out you're town by now. Once I see this flip and the flips from night kills I'll probably be going for Mr. wiggles (unless something weird happens) or geript. Keep on scumhunting. + Show Spoiler [with VE] + 1 Oatsmaster 03-18-2013 07:06 AM ET (US) hey 2 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:33 PM ET (US) Well shit sir. Another Nightmare? Perhaps one that's not quite so town-aligned? You talkin about shooting me at the end of this conversation? You talkin about ending my life BH? 3 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:36 PM ET (US) I'm confident DP is scum - the way he reacted to my case (strict OMGUS) is a town tell with newer players but not with DP I think. That guy is smart and I think his reaction to my case was an act. Look at the way he defended it. He never explained proper town motivations or tried to make me understand his point, he immediately was all "Did you hear what VE said?! He said townies never pressure people!" 4 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:40 PM ET (US) But I have nothing concrete on him. Only my case and my feels. :/ You've been very very absent from the thread, because this happened at night I have to assume that you didn't mason anyone during the day. What's going on in the would of Blzinghand? 5 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:46 PM ET (US) It's almost certain that one of us will be shot tonight, so this is likely our only chance to talk. I'm a masoner who can mason a new person every phase, and I cannot remason someone I've already masoned. During D1 I masoned with GK, which is part of why I became very sure he was town. I'm reasonably confident you're town, but if you're scum well you were probably gonna shoot me tonight anyways. In any case, I currently have two strong scumreads I want to push. I'll admit I never super looked into DP since I was more focused on other candidates for D1, so I'll add him to my "stuff to post just before daybreak" list, but right now I'm more worried about Geript and TPS. I've talked a lot about TPS in thread already but mainly I'm concerned about his attempts to _look_ like he's contributing without actually doing it. I'm like 90% sure his "anger" at my spamming is faked given that you had the same filter length as me at the time and his response to it was to just quote a bunch of my posts. He's done a pretty slick job of not contributing to the game and looking like an "emotional townie" Geript might be just me being mad, but it really just looks like he's attacking anything constructive that tries to happen. I still don't like his RNG discussion at the start of the day, but even ignoring that, he never made a really good case for why zare was scum other than "he worded things differently this game", and he switched to GM when the heat was on. What really makes me think he's scum though is his weird attack on me at the start of this night. Now MAYBE Geript is just butthurt because people didn't reread his filter in LX but I think he's legitimately trying to disrupt town from being useful. 6 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:48 PM ET (US) Also FWIW I've been skiing this weekend which is why I've been only really posting between 6 pm and midnight every day. Don't expect me to be mentioning IRL excuses in thread though, I have way more balls than that. 7 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 12:52 PM ET (US) I don't wanna run with that geript read. I want to engage him on his actual suspects, without fear of him losing his shit and looking even scummier if he's town. Like...if he's town, we gotta handle with care because you and I both are gonna probably think he's scum. I want to engage him personally on his reads, and we'll see what we see then. TPS I can run with. I didn't like that post quoting your posts at all, and it didn't make any sense singling you out. So you can pick a new target every cycle? Every cycle? Why didn't you pick me during the longer cycle? Why did you pick GK for the first cycle? 8 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 12:58 PM ET (US) The problem with town Geript is he'll act like Geript in LX under pressure and become useless and probably mislynched. It's frustrating that that's the man's meta, but that's what it is. I don't want to let that dissuade me from pushing him though or else he's some horrible unlynchable scum player who is worthless as town. I'll finish up a case on TPS a bit later today to share. Ideally I'll chuck it up just before daybreak. I picked GK about halfway through the first day because I had a townread on him. If I mason a scum player, the chance of me getting shot goes up a lot, and I know GK pretty well-- he was, and is, almost certainly town. I'm masoning with you tonight because if scum is smart at least one of us won't be around tomorrow. 9 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:00 PM ET (US) AND you can't remason. I'm offended. Officially.  10 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:00 PM ET (US) Like, you get why the "Geript might lose his shit" argument isn't reasonable right. The guy can't just hold our analysis hostage to a threat of flipping out 11 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:01 PM ET (US) Stop that line of thinking. I'm not saying don't pressure him. I'm saying don't out and out call him a scum read or he'll be all "WELP THATS FUCKING GAME CAUSE VETS THINK I'M SCUM" 12 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:02 PM ET (US) I'm saying give me a bit first. Let me talk to the guy. THEN we'll talk about geript scum, and if necessary, bring it to the thread in full force. 13 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:03 PM ET (US) Also as a secondary scumread: Vivax. This whole "yeah I'm gonna be shot for my good play, please protect me medic" thing really rubs me the wrong way. Not even countering the scumslip (which anyone could make), he hasn't been pushing a real town-motivated objective for most of D1. This is admittedly a softer read than I'd like but something intuitively is telling me that Vivax is scum, and I do well when I listen to that voice in my head. 14 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:04 PM ET (US) Okay I'll lay off Geript for now, that's reasonable enough. We can goodcop-badcop this shit 15 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:05 PM ET (US) Yeah Vivax seems to be playing more sane this game than usual too...that's not a scumtell for him though is it? e: like the rules have manner laws and anti-spam laws in place. Could he not just be trying to abide? Edited 03-18-2013 01:09 PM 16 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:09 PM ET (US) re: Vivax tell me what you think of the last paragraph of this post. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18064964 17 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:11 PM ET (US) Also I feel like this post is dissonant. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=18078961 He states that he thinks "scum would have no need to switch off to a mislynch" and then concludes that two people who switched from DP to GM are scum. At least, that's what it looks like to me. I just skimmed it because I'm trying to work fast before I go to work. XD Edited 03-18-2013 01:12 PM 18 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:40 PM ET (US) Hrm @ Mocsta immediately jokingly buddying me. 19 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:51 PM ET (US) You already pointed out that post in-thread. Vivax either is scum or has no idea who his scumreads really are, since he claims scum are pushing a wagon but is marking people not on said wagon as scum. That's definitely a scumtell because a town player would probably remember who his own scumreads are, whereas a scum player would have trouble keeping his lies straight. It's the same thing that happens in his post-vote analysis. Basically, Vivax doesn't have consistent scumreads, and his analysis isn't pointing at the people who he says is scum. It's like he has a set of reads he feels some need to push, then writes analysis that isn't really related, rather than having a thought process that connects scumhunting to scumreads. Basically a town player wouldn't make this mistake because he'd be aware of who his scumreads actually are. 20 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:54 PM ET (US) I did point it out in thread, but to my knowledge you never commented. 21 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 01:56 PM ET (US) Fair enough. Whatever case is made against Vivax though should hinge on his town/scum mentality and not on the "Scumslip" about Yamato77 imo. Scumslips generally aren't actually real. 22 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 01:57 PM ET (US) No, they're very real. Very. But that Vivax thing is not a scumslip. 23 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 05:28 PM ET (US) I'm going to assume that you're not a Nightmare...because your communication only lasts a phase. Why has GK not claimed you masoning with him was that at your request? 24 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 05:34 PM ET (US) Yeah I didn't want it to be confirmed I was a blue. If you want you can ask him to confirm it and I'm sure he will but ideally we don't let scum know this 25 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 05:52 PM ET (US) You're here and not commenting on the case I'm making against Ryu in the thread. Care to comment here if you're trying to let it develop organically in the thread or something? Ryu is essentially claiming scum in the thread from my perspective. 26 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:02 PM ET (US) I'm playing dota ryu looks like shit, we lynch him tmr imo. his claim that he wasn't "afk" or whatever during the development of the greymist case is crap. weird contradictions also evidence for DP being scum but wont' comment on assoc between unflipped, will wait to see ryu flip will write more once i'm done doating 27 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:04 PM ET (US) I wish I could DOTA. *dustkick* 28 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:04 PM ET (US) alt theory: ryu geript zarepath scumteam, but I think DP was under more pressure than zare so this theory less plausib. ryu wanted to setup a GM lynch then hang back and see if it got steam without comitting, which is why his case is weak and explains thread absence after inital bad setup 29 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:06 PM ET (US) Suppose Zare picked up steam? I neglected to comment on Zare what if I had commented and the wagon swung? 30 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:07 PM ET (US) regardless the common factor here is Ryu = scum in either theory, so we lynch him first 31 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:26 PM ET (US) WTF? I don't even care about association theories. LOL 32 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:30 PM ET (US) I don't understand the Zare question then. Overall the ryu thing seems pretty straightforwards: he shifted stance on sandro, he let the wagon push itself, and has given contradictory reads and not backed anything up. How does Zare or you commenting on wagon swings have to do with that? 33 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:34 PM ET (US) I was spitballing with you but you stated it as reasoning for wanting to lynch Ryu. For my part I just don't care what that says about anyone else yet. XD So I'm not crazy then? That's logical and I'm not losing my shit here? 34 Blazinghand 03-18-2013 06:51 PM ET (US) You're entirely non-crazy. I'll slap down a patented (link)-filled blazinghand style case on Ryu before the end of the night and see how he reacts to it. 35 VisceraEyes 03-18-2013 06:59 PM ET (US) To be frank you're entirely non-existant this game as compared to LX. I'm not really concerned about geript suspecting you because honestly before this conversation I was suspicious of you too. Being in a QT with someone pretty much excuses that though. Can you go into detail about your read on TPS? 36 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 12:21 AM ET (US) Fair enough. I'll be responding in thread. You wouldn't try to pull this as scum, so at least there's that. I don't think outing me as a Mason is the right move. DrH and Oats have both repeatedly privately threatened me with modkill due to spamming, which is why I have decreased my post count. The thoughts in here if I get shot tonight will corroborate your story that I did in fact mason you. 37 VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 12:40 AM ET (US) It's the right move. If you're town you'll be able to prove it. I just don't think so based on the contents of this QT. And because you're "actively decreasing your post count" that's all I have to go on. Sorry dude. 38 Blazinghand 03-19-2013 12:44 AM ET (US) TBH it's probably what I'd do if the situations are reversed. I'll never admit to setup speculation in public, but given a flipped mason, there's higher-than-average chance of other masons being scum. But at least, if I should die tonight for some reason, don't let geript walk free. That miserable cunt is laughing at me, VE. Laughing. VisceraEyes 03-19-2013 12:55 AM ET (US) You will be avenged. | ||
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On March 20 2013 17:36 DarthPunk wrote: Yeah. I reckon I could lynch him. The main thing though is that he was very co-operative under pressure when I spoke with him rationally and then he did a reasonably good job of assessing the Kita case objectively. I don't know. How do you guys feel about his large analysis of kita's post? I can go into more detail of what I felt was missing if you want On March 20 2013 16:55 Mocsta wrote: Anywho.. im voting WoS now relooking at the "defense" I cant believe he attributed 3/4 lines to defending the case.. and an equal amount of lines on subsequent posts. i.e. the amount he wrote, should have just been for the kita case Even the points 2-5 based on subsequent posts.. some of the defense is just not fleshed out. ##Vote: WoS They key point for me, was id ont think he actually addressed the main case. instead he chose to focus on the subsequent posts with kita, and even then.. some of it wasnt detailed enough (e.g. "its relevant") | ||
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But yes. I shared responsibility for the witch hunt. | ||
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I know this is association, but if/when WoS flips red. I'm considering the implications for coag | ||
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I have no idea how he gets a town read. Gk never provides his own thoughts, instead just agrees with BH. BH also in his first posts says he wants to avoid a gk mislynch. So if gk is scum, he has no reason to feel pressured or scared from the start of the qt. BH here is some wifom Maybe u weren't killed because scum happy u have a town read on gk @BH Can u walk me through specifically what in that mason log gives u a town read. To me gk never gives a hard stance on anything and isn't helping u scum hunt. Reminds me of my PMs with promethelax in personality2 actually. | ||
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I was just putting it out there and being accountable. I pushed that agenda today. | ||
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Its interesting BH never asks ve his opinion of me whilst I am hammering him After all my hammering contributed to be deciding to out bh. Its odd because ve just flips a switch and goes from nonchalant to.. Suspicious with seemingly nothing in between. Odd from both of them I would have thought it would be an opportune moment for ve to discern BH alignment.. | ||
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Thanks for joining the Wagon of Justice To more pressing matters a couple posts above, I wrote some light (i.e was on Tablet) commentary about the mason logs (that I reformatted for easy reading on p74). Care to share some of your insight? After, you had the right reads as town in Personality 2.. lets hear your feedback on those logs pl0x | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:39 WaveofShadow wrote: You really want me to bust out the trump card, don't you? Yes Who are you nightmared to i suppose? | ||
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checked greymist role PMWoS Why do you think a role claim will save u? lets say you claimed "the mirror" or watever, how are we to know it is valid? i dont follow (hence why i said nightmare...) | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:48 ThePeashooter wrote: Hey, I have work and will be gone for 9 hours. When I come back I should have time to throw together and a case for vigi's/tomorrow. + Show Spoiler [for vivax] + K yam77 | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:50 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh it won't save me, that's the thing. But at least it'll cast enough doubt that you guys don't waste any more time on me (hopefully) and find some REAL scum today so that town actually has a shot at winning this game. If my death N2 means that can happen well then fine; at least I contributed somehow. I wasnt planning on focussing any more energy on you.. the case(s) and response is conclusive . and my meta case against/for you holds. you did nothing Day1.. your filter was 2 pages and pushed nothing with "balls" | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:52 WaveofShadow wrote: Oh I even crumbed it a little if you guys are smart. (1) This reads to me as: Wild Goose hunt to disrupt scum hunting Day2 (2) Reminds me of what I did in Hydra setting up for the JK claim.. effectively stopped discussion for a good couple hours | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:55 WaveofShadow wrote: Yeah, except the game was solved already so it didn't matter. I'm not trying to stop discussion, I'm trying to make sure you guys don't waste another lynch and at least force mafia to dispose of me. Watevs brodooski If you wanted to claim. you would claim you dont need "our" permission. If you wanted to find a superior alternative. you woulda come in, and bust a case in someones face. instead we get a "Strip tease" If anything, this claim attempt gives me absolute confidence you are scum; enough that i could seriously consider looking for association reads... *ouch, thats gotta hurt* | ||
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On March 20 2013 22:58 Vivax wrote: WoS you seem to be tilting. Convince people about someone being a better lynch than you. If you roleclaim I will lynch you nontheless. Mocsta another thing: During N1 and early D2 you were on zarepath calling him scummy about a lot of things (remember how he asked about the rolename?). Now you seem to have lost track, what's your current read of zare? I havnt lost track honey i have reverted to a green read on zarepath actually i re-reading the game now; and though i still *abhor* his opener.. the following posts interacting with WoS for example are towny (And not because I think WoS is scum) its because he is calling out those ppl for the same thing I disliked and made notes about. I think keirathi was right, hes still newbie-ish town. Im only up to page 15 though (I know.. its embarassing, but in short. so far, i dnot see zarepath as scummy anymore) | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:03 Ace wrote: WaveofShadow is Town, Mocsta is Scum. There, I've solved this game! Been waiting for this baby Games about to get fun now | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:02 WaveofShadow wrote: Alright Mocsta, you want association reads? (It's a shame I can't post videos, I had a perfect one for this. Look up Alan Parson's Project: "Eye In the Sky." Fantastic song.) I am The Eye Lynch away! Interesting This might change everything actually. | ||
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can we know who you performed the action on? | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:09 DarthPunk wrote: Can i call that a delurk? lolAnother weak town read which this time is a 180 on a previous scum read. Gee. You really want me to think you are scummy don't ya bud. actually my primary suspect hasnt chagned since my first read of p7-p20 the other day and my read now of p7-p15 tonight. If it wasnt clear who that was since I joined the thread, its BH | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:11 Ace wrote: Mocsta I just briefly glanced through your filter and the first set of posts were a bunch of Scum accusations or light finger pointing. I think you replaced in, so for a new player in the game those are some pretty fast conclusions to be drawing. Righto. Well at least i caught the eye of TL finest. Gotta be happy with that. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:14 DarthPunk wrote: For those who somehow don;t understand why I have a problem with all these town reads with little to no reasoning. Townies just don't think that way. I think I have one solid town read at the moment and I am still not sold on it. So i really don;t know what the fuck people are talking about when they produce town reads and especially 180's from thin air with some weak as shit EXCUSE. Because that is what all the reasoning for these town reads are. Excuses to think they are town. There is no analysis that will sway others to the read. and there is nothing that I can empathise with in terms of mindset. I dunno if that was a reference to me. But perhaps we saying different things. To me a "town' read balls anywhere from above null to confirmed. Maybe for you, it only means confirmed town. If you talking about confirmed town, the only have three. & 2 are dead. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:14 Vivax wrote: + Show Spoiler + On March 20 2013 23:11 Mocsta wrote: Can i call that a delurk? lol actually my primary suspect hasnt chagned since my first read of p7-p20 the other day and my read now of p7-p15 tonight. If it wasnt clear who that was since I joined the thread, its BH I thought it was GK. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 03:09 Mocsta wrote: Im only up to p13. but GoodKarma is scum yo On March 19 2013 03:24 Mocsta wrote: I agree DYH Im up to p15 and my two strongest reads are: GoodKarma + zarepath zarepath already from his first 10 posts, is posting completely different to the 3-4 games I played with him in the past 1 to 2 months (he was town in all of them). 3rd read = weak is Vivax from his first post.. very odd reads, but will reevaluate as i read more of the thread. Nah, I didnt like GK.. he made a post at the time and i called him out, cos i usually refresh the live thread, whilst reading the old thread. I chased BH for a while yesterday; resulted him in releasing the mason logs (cos VE decided to out him).. BH said something that bought him some time from me, but re-reading over the same posts Im just finding him very snide this game. Its a very different arrogance to Mafia LX. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:17 DarthPunk wrote: Mocsta. How far into the thread are you? Well before WoS made his post, iw as reading in peace so p14. Cos ppl keep talking to me, its now only p15 perhaps i should jsut stop refereshing and read the whole night.. actually i will jsut do that. im sick of not knowing the status quo. | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:19 DarthPunk wrote: What in the actual fuck? for me it means someone I can say that I am above 80% sure is town. slightly above null is not a town read. There u go. i dont call ppl 80% town, that means nothing to me We all use different tools; its not scummy because someone thinks differently. DP, you're better than this.. Seriously... i actually liked you a lot when you coached me; but this shit.. seriously man. Take a chill pill. | ||
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When i say something is "probably town".. i assume that is equivalent to your ">80%" certainty or whatever. i use null, slightly leaning, leaning, probably, confirmed thats it... my wording on zarepath was town, if you want specific. slightly leaning. kk bye nowz | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:23 zarepath wrote: Yes, NOW go read the thread, now that Ace has called you scum. But you feel okay actually voting for people and calling people scum without having actually read the thread? That is horrible. What really makes me mad about this is the fact that you spent time reformatting those logs so that other people could analyze them, but you've only read 15 pages of content. Yet you still feel confident enough to call multiple people scum, case suspicions on several other people, and then bounce as soon as someone calls you scum. Dickhead.. did you read my case on WoS. There are aspects of play, you dont need to read the thread to judge.. Some behaviours dont make sense for town, regardless of how the game has panned out. Stop being a dickhead. what has ace calling me scum got to do with reading the thread anyways. And yeah, the reason im confident enough to do what im doing is cos im town. What im doing is putting a big fuckn spotlight on me, and some are starting to scrutinse that, and guess what. i dnot really care. the reason im stoppping posting, isnt cos someone called me scum. its because i realised im not helping town by making comments without reading the whole thread. If WoS claim is legit, i need to figure out who i want to push for lynch as an alternative. that means I have to re-read the whole thread, and build a full case on whoever. At this stage, most likely BH, but i dunno whats gonna happen when i read pages 20-40 for the first time. Hence why im disappearing. See ya | ||
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Thats total exaggeration of what happened. *THATS* why im calling you a dickhead | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:36 WaveofShadow wrote: Funny thing about my role, from the PM I assumed rolecop which usually means only role, no alignment, especially given this setup when we don't know what the names refer to that would make sense right? Well I got alignment too. .. lemme gues.s. this is crumbed too seirously man.. i want to go back to reading the game, but this carrot is dangling and too tempting.. are you gonna tell us or not? If not, im just gonna fuck off and read | ||
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i haven't seen a DT agonise over the claim like this. To be frank, i was considering saving him if he dt'd someone like wiggles (hence the vote) But.. that hes dragging this out. i just dont care anymore - because the source is too unreliable. | ||
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and the outcome? cos u swapped to wiggles.... | ||
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I cant see you fabricating that post to TPS, as premeditation for this roleclaim. "Alright let's try TPS now. First of all, fuck you. First thing I was asked after Daypost popped up was do I want to sheep BH's case against you, and I said no, because I believed you were actually maybe capable of doing something useful for the town. Guess I was wrong. Second, inexperienced maybe. Scum, no. I haven't formed any major cases because I honestly can't find a target that hasn't been scrutinized to death already that I could bring something new to the table for. So I act with my vote when I need to. I don't exactly think I've been non-confrontational at all this game, but of course that's a matter of perception. I guess everything I did during the day can just be ignored as well as what I'm doing now, sure. I wish, I WISH you didn't look scummy as fuck because then I'd make a case against YOU, but I still believe you are town, fuck if I know why. Gut reads doing me real justice thus far." I have seen newbie DT act the way you have before.. so dont beat yaself up too harshly | ||
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On March 20 2013 23:59 WaveofShadow wrote: You guys just couldn't let it go. I was making it work for me just like we did in Hydra mafia, but then it backfired in the exact same way. We were looking just scummy enough for mafia to leave us alive hoping for the mislynch, but trying to contribute enough so that town would leave us alone. Same thing here and I thought after last night I had it under control.....you guys......... Unfortunately, my defense for you was based on pushing a lynch Day1, which was then pointed out to be false. The context of newbie DT makes sense for the behaviour of not pushing the lynch; thus, mitigating Kita case in my opinion. Hopefully when night comes, you will be medic protected. *fingers crossed* | ||
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(1) you could out a blue (2) some powers might need to know the role.. and could be scum aligned i see no beenfit, other than declaring TPS is "the fool" pls consider seriously. | ||
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"the fool" is green VT there will be one role = goon all other roles i surmise are power..(i dont know this.. but it is a reasonable conclusion) henceforth as TPS != scum any name given other than "fool" means.. he could be a NK target based on being blue.. i dont think its worth the risk. | ||
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Not saying this to take the piss. but right now, im up to p18 Heres an idea.. if you think im scummy.. show me how what im pushing is scummy. & show me how my vote logic on WoS is scummy Otherwise, this is a pretty useless contribution. Yes, you have pointed out that I have not read past page 22. Well done. | ||
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the first couple are me being cocky. saying.. you so scummy i havent even read the thread and can tell you're scum. IRONIC.. cos i know town VE understand thread sentiment, so can read between the lines. The last couple are in response to me makign decisions without enough context, and calling myself out for it .. yet you saying this is scummy.. lol.. i took accountability. This aint no town VE that i have played with before.... | ||
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i rescind that EBWOP This is not the town VE taht I have played with before lol | ||
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On March 21 2013 00:45 VisceraEyes wrote: Mafia still wanted me dead N1, . If you say so. | ||
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my last newbie scum game.. VE coached me (to flawless victory , so twice now )I said.. heres an idea, "lets pretend to be vet, and withhold a shot to gain awesome town cred." mmmmmmmm....... lol | ||
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i know u like to win in style.. and thats pretty stylish if you ask me p.s. i thought your "doesnt read the thread" points on me was terrible. and pretty disappointed if thats the best a town VE can muster... in all seriousness VE... i didnt mind you in the mason logs with BH... BUT.. that "case/issues" you made on me, read as something you would produce in nomination mafia as scum. | ||
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the one issue i had witht he mason logs is the time stamps dont match my "thread" time stamps.. so i cant tell if the 6hr gap in communication occured AFTER you made a case on him. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:10 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm not allowed to post logs. I said this already. Are you saying: you didnt read zarepath post his logs of BH Are you saying: you didnt read BH posted the logs, and i reformatted them? seriously.. this is odd..ok, maybe you didnt catch up on the thread but yeah, just odd. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:28 DarthPunk wrote: also mocsta we are both up really late. we may have a problem. VE can hate me or watevs.. but im not going to bed till i read up to End of Day1 lol | ||
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what if he is a jester? | ||
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can I have your opinion on TestSubject pl0x | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote: I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. haha you funny gai Lets be real here.. why the fuck would a guy claim in the thread he is 3rd party.. doesnt make sense Im putting it out there. i dont think VE is a stupid guy. u might, but i dont. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. The logs had no time stamps.. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:48 layabout wrote: That went over my headMan have i thought like you are thinking before was that a backhanded compliment? | ||
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Why cant he be the mirror? Seriously.. why the fuck would VE out himself like this... I dont see what layabout posted has anythign to do with it.. OK hes a compulsive claimer..perhaps.. surely thats only as blue roles.. not a claimer as scum/3rd party.. The whole situation doesnt make sense. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:54 Wade Fell wrote: The point Mocsta is that there is NO possible explanation for VE where you say "yes, he claimed 3rd-party, but I don't want to lynch the guy who has literally claimed 3rd party today" Like why would you ever not lynch the scumclaim Why is everyone jumping on this bandwagon like fuckn sheep, without putting some thought into why this even came about.... as far as I know.. layabout made a case on you, and brought up the mirror (which was the first i had read about the role... pls correct me if im wrong) Then VE goers apeshit, and posts some logs which look fabricated..... | ||
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On March 09 2013 07:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote: 9. Do not include pictures or videos of any sort in your posts. Only post outside links if they are relevant to the game. | ||
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On March 21 2013 01:59 zarepath wrote: I think that we are better served finding scum today than lynching someone who claimed 3rd party. We'll always know who the 3rd party player is, but if we refuse to look for scum today we lose a lot of ground. Fuckn bingo. Ace knows better than this | ||
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is that the first instance in the thread? | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:02 Ace wrote: We aren't going to stop scumhunting: that would be dumb.. Well you must be the champion of dumb then When I ask your opinion of others, you say only VE for consideration. So u want to maintain the vote on VE watevz... but lead the way with the scum hunting Mr. Ace. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:11 Ace wrote: zarepath, if VE is some kind of 3rd party Vet with more than 1 shot powers he can only die by lynch. I'm pretty sure the Town has some kind of night KP - we find a Scum today and vigi him. Both problems solved. I can work with that supposition. | ||
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a town nightmare masoend VE as "the mirror" | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:33 VisceraEyes wrote: Because it makes sense to accept to become a part of this third party entity and then bring it to the thread. LOL ##Unvote ##Vote: VisceraEyes Thanks guys - I was worried that reading and thinking about this game while at work tonight was gonna get me fired. Now I don't have to! ^^ GL town. *Facepalm* like wtf... this is seriously against win-con if real reason. | ||
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i still dunno who the head of the "mirror" is. | ||
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On March 21 2013 02:58 Wade Fell wrote: Show it to me. i dont recallAnyone who's not voting VE needs to make a good case why we aren't just lynching the claimed scum. "Oh he might not have kp" and "he's playing against his wincon" (which is probably true regardless of his alignment) are not good reasons. | ||
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if anything... personality2.. town was pissed they lynched 3rd party day 1.. why are we ecstatic now. need to find scum | ||
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On March 21 2013 03:00 Wade Fell wrote: Am I in the twilight zone here? Didn't VE claim scum by posting those logs? >.> wtf dude i hope this doesnt become a podcast topic scum=mafia 3rd party != scum 3rd party = ANTI-TOWN = scum | ||
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To more pressing matters.. please address the below On March 20 2013 18:19 Mocsta wrote: Now that I read through BH log with go in clarity I have no idea how he gets a town read. Gk never provides his own thoughts, instead just agrees with BH. BH also in his first posts says he wants to avoid a gk mislynch. So if gk is scum, he has no reason to feel pressured or scared from the start of the qt. BH here is some wifom Maybe u weren't killed because scum happy u have a town read on gk @BH Can u walk me through specifically what in that mason log gives u a town read. To me gk never gives a hard stance on anything and isn't helping u scum hunt. Reminds me of my PMs with promethelax in personality2 actually. | ||
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On March 21 2013 03:03 Wade Fell wrote: WTF man.. is this wackytabacky hour with VE or something?So I need to do a reread but 90% likely I'll be making a case on either vivax testsubj or wiggles. Probably vivax since testsubj doesn't really seem to be playing any more. lynching WoS or TPS is out of the question at this point and tbh if WoS's claim is true he's gonna get shot anyways along with TPS fairly quickly If testsubject isnt playing anymore.. why WONT you lynch him? seriously | ||
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On March 21 2013 03:04 Wade Fell wrote: 3P is scum I don't know where you guys learned to play mafia but there's like no reason not to lynch 3P. We should still make cases and hunt scum but what possible motivation would we have for not lynching a scum player, even if he's 3P? Wrong but wahtevers, not relevant 3p dont win with scum.. hence are not aligned with scum 3P and scum are both anti-town.. nothing more, nothing less moving on now | ||
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On March 21 2013 08:56 glurio wrote: Ok i'll go with my gut feel and vote for Mocsta. I thought about the VE 3rd party situation and i can't convince myself he's scum. In my eyes most likely "the Mirror" is a scum mason and his line (3rd party join my cult and i'll get stronger) is just some well thought out scam to confuse town. No clue why he accepted the claim, that is the part that does not make sense, His vet claim seems legit, since (setup speculation) scum has most likely 2 KP with this many players and no one else claimed getting hit. (or saved, or jailed, or blocked) Since lynch time is really terrible for europeans (4 AM i think), i'll vote for mocsta and go to sleep. ##Vote: Mocsta Go on. lets hear some legitimate reasons for my vote Glurio All your points raised before, you already excused as I was busy. So enlighten me. | ||
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why are you letting glurio throw away a useless vote.. where he even provides a defense for the points he raised? so many things happeend this cycle.. and he fuckn throws it on me.. who was never under any serious consideration? like wtf...thats completely different justification to vivax chasing coag. | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:40 layabout wrote: In LX i was more sure of my reads since people were posting too much, this game is a messy headache in a bag being beaten with a stick. I agree.. LX mighta been spammy.. but there was leadership This game doesnt have any leadership (yet) | ||
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+ Show Spoiler [Glurio Mocsta context] + On March 21 2013 08:14 glurio wrote: What can i say i'm legit busy right now. I'm moving, and work in my new appartment 12h a day. After that i'm really tired so all i can do is read everything and vote accordingly. Yesterday i took the time to write a case on someone looking very scummy, no one even commented on it so i suspected no one read it. That pissed me off a bit and instead of pushing my case further i went to bed. Tomorrow the work in the new appartment should be finished so by D3 i should have much more time to spend on the game. Right now i find mocsta to be scummy. Mostly out of meta reasons though. He really doesn't seem like the kind of guy who wouldn't have finished reading the thread after replacing in. He usually is one of the most active and loud posters in the games, but here he didn't even bother to read everything so far? In most games it seems he's one of the players who spend the most time in the game, reading filters, posting stuff etc. But then again he said he is really busy with his life which i suppose can be true. I haven't made up my mind in the whole VE 3rd party situation. But before all that came up i didn't really want to lynch VE or WF tonight. Two claimed blues after all. On March 21 2013 08:56 glurio wrote: Ok i'll go with my gut feel and vote for Mocsta. I thought about the VE 3rd party situation and i can't convince myself he's scum. In my eyes most likely "the Mirror" is a scum mason and his line (3rd party join my cult and i'll get stronger) is just some well thought out scam to confuse town. No clue why he accepted the claim, that is the part that does not make sense, His vet claim seems legit, since (setup speculation) scum has most likely 2 KP with this many players and no one else claimed getting hit. (or saved, or jailed, or blocked) Since lynch time is really terrible for europeans (4 AM i think), i'll vote for mocsta and go to sleep. ##Vote: Mocsta On March 21 2013 08:59 Mocsta wrote: Go on. lets hear some legitimate reasons for my vote Glurio All your points raised before, you already excused as I was busy. So enlighten me. On March 21 2013 09:21 Mocsta wrote: Why are we letting Glurio come in and throw around useless votes, that he himself provided reasons for ineligibility? On March 21 2013 10:25 Mocsta wrote: motherfuckers.. i asked two or three times now. why are you letting glurio throw away a useless vote.. where he even provides a defense for the points he raised? so many things happeend this cycle.. and he fuckn throws it on me.. who was never under any serious consideration? like wtf...thats completely different justification to vivax chasing coag. | ||
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On March 21 2013 10:53 DarthPunk wrote: What does everyone think about a coag lynch? Im not against it. when he said he had a town read on WoS yesterdya, i queried him, because I wasnt sure if founded upon knowledge not known to town... or a good read. IIRC he coudltn substantiate the read. I can support the vote. With VE.. i was against voting him for the 3P as of last night.. i still cant get past that he would do something like this that has basically polarised and derailed the thread for a good 10hrs now.. thats essentially worthy of a policy lynch in my opinion. | ||
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can you please provide some links to posts, i will prioritise reading them now. (im not even sure who has built cases on him, other than I think you?) | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:08 WaveofShadow wrote: Mocsta, shut up about glurio, he's useless and yes he's scummy we can lynch him after we figure out the rest of this clusterfuck we call a game. No... Look i appreciate you coming here and trying to step up. We need this nearing the vote. But that action is pretty fuckn scummy. Considering some held a scum read on glurio throughout the thread.. im surprised this action has gone through "unnoticed". So im not goign to shut up about it. =========== My suggestion: if you want to achieve consolidation I would provide a summary list of points for lynchign VE, and points for lynching Wiggles. cos right now, everything is interspersed through 10-20 pages off bullshit/spamming | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:13 WaveofShadow wrote: From last night's defense of me I saw him as town because he was the only one not directly assuming just because everyone else was that my 'flailing around like an idiot,' as he put it, wasn't due to scumslipping. Advice for all games... many townies fall into the trap of having a strong town read, on someone who sees them as town (when they are under threat) Please consider: scum *know* your alignment; town *think* they know your alignment. Its up to you to make the judgement on whether the town read is genuine; or falsified. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:19 WaveofShadow wrote: I don't see it being a smart move on scum's part to defend me when I looked as scummy as I did. If I had flipped blue sure he could've been all like 'SEE I TOLD YOU GUYS,' but then if you're the only person defending me when the rest of the thread, town and scum agrees to vote me, that doesn't look very good for the reasons you described, does it? I need a re-read cos i cant remember exact sequence of events. IIRC he supported you as town, when I still thought you were town based on meta (and not going through your filter in detail). Hence it was basically a sheep +1. Which is easy enough from either alignment. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:33 DarthPunk wrote: he may not be. But I KNOW goodkarma. and I KNOW goodkarma is never useless as town. this is as close t a sure thing that i can see today. In fairness, DP said in middle Day1.. one of the few reasons he wanted to keep gk around was cos he knew gk could offer solid contribution as town. So I see this as pretty valid reasoning. + Though BH assumes gk is town int he logs..... there is no evidence of gk trying to discern BH alignment. nor is there eveidence of gk acting as if BH is confirmed town.. all he does is agree with BH I do prefer this lynch over coag. I havnt read wiggles to make an opinion. | ||
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I will go gk Those mason logs have really irked me. | ||
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i knwo that sucks..b ut its true ... VE position is too compromised to trust right now. | ||
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On March 21 2013 11:49 geript wrote: I remember reading the case, the problem is that most of the cases you've posted are literally unreadable. I disagree I thought his cases have been succinct. Whether I agree with the reasoning is a different story. But your choice of word "unreadable" is peculiar. | ||
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SHEEP ME | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:03 sciberbia wrote: Our win condition is not to remove all non-town. It is to remove all threats to the town. You are the one making an assumption by assuming that the mirror is a threat to the town. I see no good evidence of this. For one thing, he does not seem to have KP. This is something that irks me about closed setups though. You can help your alignment to win by knowing what kinds of setups the host would be likely to make. I don't know anything about DrH but I see no in-thread evidence that the mirror is a threat to us. Dude.. seriously this is all conjecture and not worthy of discussion lets work with what we do know. goodkarma.. sheep me | ||
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if you're gonna build a case on ace.. need to show why hopeless1der was scum too pl0x | ||
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SHEEP ME | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:15 WaveofShadow wrote: Wiggles I fucking hate you. Where the fuck was shit like this for the first few days? You people wonder why I don't make cases and just sheep, shit like this is why. I can barely throw something coherent together and when I do I get shit on. A guy who doesn't contribute at all and barely shows up does one thing which will probably essentially remove all suspicion of him and any chance of him getting lynched tonight. Just tell me who to vote for and I'll do it; I'm dead tomorrow night anyway. Actually Wiggles post on ace reads great.. and ironically his "meta case on ace" replacing into a game as town.. is pretty much how i have entered the game ============== Having said that.. the mafia mason connection mystifies me. Why? because.. i agree with him, but with much less confidence. In personality2, the town thread was so confused about events.. i decided to tell the truth on what occured (i.e. death framer) and ppl just laughed at me, even though i spoke with confidence about the event. This reminds me of that situation.. i *think* there is a mafia mason involved for the mirror Wiggles talks as if there *IS* a mafia mason involved Thoughs.. am i over reading this? | ||
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i know you feel strongly about gk... are you tempted by TestSubject? His +1 vote timing on GreyMist is *very* suspicious and to me with the thread sentiment at the time, speaks of mafia. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:25 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Three of you just switched to Good Karma in the last twenty minutes. He only has four votes. Why can't we kill Ace again? U have to prove Hopeless1der is also scum | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:26 goodkarma wrote: So I come back to see DP proposing a lynch, with the only justification being this: I believe you're over-romanticizing that game. I solved the game all in one go, with one post identifying the remaining two scum on day four... As for being "useless," I wouldn't say I've been useless this game. If you were to look through my filter you should have figured that out... Have I had that ground-breaking case post this game that makes everyone's jaws drop? Not yet, but that doesn't make me scum. If you're going to make a case against me, at least put some effort into it to show exactly how I'm scum rather than some one-liner. I'm not liking how we're splitting up our votes yet again RIGHT BEFORE the lynch deadline. Like how the hell are we supposed to catch scum when we divide up everything so nicely for scum to manipulate the vote? Well if u want to know a damn good reason Frankly. i agreed with GreyMist breakdown of why you made a case on him. You found an easy target that was lurking; and never responded back to Sandroba, thus there was a high likelihood he wouldnt play back with you. How is this part of the pro-town atmosphere you were spewing when you tried to shit over teh SAST. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:26 goodkarma wrote: I'm not liking how we're splitting up our votes yet again RIGHT BEFORE the lynch deadline. Like how the hell are we supposed to catch scum when we divide up everything so nicely for scum to manipulate the vote? WTF is this shit dude thats one of the best ways to catch scum force them to make quick decisions especially if we voting for one of them... | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:27 DarthPunk wrote: imagine having played with someone who is never useless as town and having played scum with that person knows their posting suffers as scum. I wanted to keep GK alive because i knew I could read him. he is never this useless as town. never. His posting doesn't seem like real scumhunting which is similar to his posting as scum when he was on my team in liquid city. additionally, Grey mist was sold on GK being scum and he is a confirmed town. I want to lynch goodkarma today. U misread me.. im not saying i disagree with gk.. i want him gone. i just wanted to know your opinion on testsubject, and if you felt stronger about him? To me, gk is based more on meta foundations (where the cases make sense to me.. but im not actually familiar with the guy, so am not as confident) Testsubject is based on actual play this game, and his decision choices to me.. are scummy motivated, so i just feel more confidence.. thats all. | ||
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TestSubject did nothing notable Day1, other than banter with BH.. which frankly to me is not alignment indicative (as much as ppl are giving credit to newbies for doing it). His vote on GM, comes at a time where he is starting to look suspcious due to the martrying.. whats interesting is that the 2 last ppl that voted after the martrying = Wos & TestSubject, but how they went about the voting is completely different. TestSubject is very cold and distanced. & the vote was an easy +1.. its just very scummy to me The big problem was this though: On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote: Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say. GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him. ##Vote: GreYMisT I'm not sure why DP was getting so much heat earlier, I was happy with his explanation and liked his case against VE. VE made himself look pretty bad and has moved himself to a solid scumread in my book with his comments about town not being able to vote to influence behavior. I refuse to believe he has such a fundamental misunderstanding of the game that he believes that to be true. I've been putting some thought into BH too and he's definitely someone I'm leaning more and more scum on. He seems to be of the mentality that he's made up his mind on who is scum (apparently me included, for daring to disagree with the mighty BH) and he'll come up with reasons for it later. It made sense last game when he was a cop, but even if he is one this game he can't have checked yet. It adds up to scummy play in my eyes. Geript and zare have not done themselves any favors either. They still look bad and worse. His sole justification is.. here are examples of ppl who martyred when scum... because greymist martyred The syllogism is... all maryrs are scum => greymist is scum THATS BULLSHIT!!... and scummy reasoning. Its clear town marytr too..look at Geript.. fuck.. even testsubject was in that game. Conveniently he ignores this. He has misconstrued information to support his "distanced" vote. Thats scum guys.. THAT IS SCUM. In fact.. i cant walk away from this. ##Unvote ##VOTE: TESTSUBJECT | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:45 TestSubject893 wrote: HoneyShow me where my "decision choices are scummy motivated". Hell, tell me why the timing of my vote was suspicious while you're at it. You're just throwing accusations around without any backing because my name has come up lately. I honestly don't know what you're talking about with either, so how am I supposed to show you you're wrong? Already did it. P.S NICE DE-LURK | ||
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i used the word syllogism to show why the fucker is scum thats worthy of sheeping my vote | ||
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but pls explain to me how a vote like that with such blatant misrepresentation to jsutify his vote.. can even originate from a townie mindset? THIS FUCKER just won as bartender in a game (a couple days ago) where Geript famously martyred AS TOWN.. yet he completely ignores this. On March 21 2013 12:42 Mocsta wrote: To give you context, i *JSUT* finished Day1 15min ago .. so am basically up to date with the thread, cos i been keeping up since i replaced in night 1. TestSubject did nothing notable Day1, other than banter with BH.. which frankly to me is not alignment indicative (as much as ppl are giving credit to newbies for doing it). His vote on GM, comes at a time where he is starting to look suspcious due to the martrying.. whats interesting is that the 2 last ppl that voted after the martrying = Wos & TestSubject, but how they went about the voting is completely different. TestSubject is very cold and distanced. & the vote was an easy +1.. its just very scummy to me The big problem was this though: His sole justification is.. here are examples of ppl who martyred when scum... because greymist martyred The syllogism is... all maryrs are scum => greymist is scum THATS BULLSHIT!!... and scummy reasoning. Its clear town marytr too..look at Geript.. fuck.. even testsubject was in that game. Conveniently he ignores this. He has misconstrued information to support his "distanced" vote. Thats scum guys.. THAT IS SCUM. In fact.. i cant walk away from this. ##Unvote ##VOTE: TESTSUBJECT | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:48 ThePeashooter wrote: I'm going to point out something that I see happening around page 93ish. People are trying to say that The Mirror was probably just the mafia fucking with VE. Let me remind you of the OP in case no one else brought it up. I know you're on the phone.. but this has been raised by several its actually the minority that think it is a mafia mason | ||
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This TestSubject is as distant as the Bartender TestSubject i played with. your filter Day1 is essentially goading BH by saying a newbie beat him.. whats the point? Like i said.. WoS voted GM at the same time as u... yet his post shows a lot more care (in contrast to yours) yours is blatant, "i found an opportunity.. i need to put some justification... let me contort an item i think is applicable... lets throw it down vote." Thats scummy as fuck. There is nothing to walk me through.. i dont have to convince scum they are scum. TOWN... SHEEP ME | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:54 DarthPunk wrote: I don't like matyring and right or not I view it as scummy. Hell I think I even said something about WoS matyring. I understand his view and I think it could come from town DP.. lets constructively talk about this. two things can happen you make me realise im being tunneled OR i make you realise you are being "soft" =========== What was the point of making the martyr comment? In my opinion, because he wants to provide justification for the +1 vote. I dont see anything wrong with that, image is important regardless of alignment. So it comes down to the justification.. Its severely flawed as I have pointed out. A townie is more willing to look at both sides of the fence before coming to a conclusion. This guy imemdiately takes the negative representation.. with no clear context in his filter for wanting to hammer GreyMist in that manner. This is why i think its scummy. He saw that GreyMist was basically dead, and decided to kick him whilst on the floor. | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:59 TestSubject893 wrote: You're right that I don't have a heavy emotional investment in this game, I don't really want to be playing because dealing with BH is the opposite of fun. You're wrong that I was distant as bartender. There was plenty of emotion in that game, go back and look. You've got yourself a case of confirmation bias. I will just have to agree to disagree. IMHO.. you came across as innocent in Mafia LX i recall you asking me "what does sheeping mean" u barely posted, and when it did, it contained nothing.. we just assumed bad town, which was our fuck up. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:00 VisceraEyes wrote: Like look at Ace's language. "Look at it from our perspective. See things the way we see them." Look at ideas he's promoting:
But do you know who Ace thinks is scum? No? Because he doesn't mention finding scum at all, or find anything suspicious. He was "catching up" until my thing and now he's all "LYNCH VE HURRY QUICK HE CLAIMED 3P" [rant]Like, I'm town. Regardless of what you think of the Mirror, I am town. Who cares what it says in those mason logs? They're MASON LOGS. But Ace is pushing this idea that "Oh VE has OBVIOUSLY got to be 3P now." Why? I'm not obviously 3P what kind of 3P even THINKS of posting hsi logs ADMITTING it? I declined joining his fucking cult, it doesn't matter what the logs say. SCUM SHOT ME YESTERDAY YOU FUCK[/rant] I said it before... Wiggles case reads nice and all but if ace is scum.. hopless1der is scum. I want to see why hopeless1der is scum.. cos id ont recall anyone having him as a scum read. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:03 TestSubject893 wrote: Are you saying I come across as innocent in this game? Because that's not what everyone else is saying. If I wanted to survive as long as possible, I wouldn't be playing the way I am.... no.. i said ur emotionally detached this game u argued u were emotionally attached mafia LX.. i said. i think you were innocent and still emotionally detached.. henceforth : agree to disagree. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:00 Wade Fell wrote: yeah well dealing with you is the opposite of productive U gonna throw jabs.. or follow me with a vote, bish | ||
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another way of looking at the vote is this Town are looking to vote scum *always* Scum ideally are looking fro *safe* votes.. safe is based on thread sentiment, and can imply starting, joining or hammering the bandwagon To me, GM posts were townie, until the martyring.. the combination of lurking + martyring, gave credence to a vote on GM. Based on how shitty/leaderless Day1 was, i can understand a vote on GM. Kenpachi +1'd, Testsubject +1'd, Wos +1'd. kenpachi i got no idea bout . another then i heard hes a troll This is WoS martyr follow up vote On March 18 2013 13:18 WaveofShadow wrote: As for GM, he holds something in common with zare, in that he also brings up suspicion against me, calls me scummier than DarthPunk, doesn't back it up, and then ignores me completely. His AHA! post reeks of bad towny play (stupid gambit is stupid), but isn't Grey supposed to be a mafia veteran? That kind of 'trap' is something that zare tried to spring on the rest of the town AS a townie in NMM 37 but it only ended up muddling up the whole thread for that day and accomplishing nothing. Greymist's trap seems like an easy way to hide behind the fact that he couldn't be assed to contribute in a positive way and to jump on the first person to call him out for being gone (whether for legit reasons or not) as others have pointed out. ##Vote GreYMisT Whilst i disagree with the conclusion..(and so did the flip) it is still a *reasonable* mindset to have on the situation. I dont see a problem with this vote. Contrast with TestSubject On March 18 2013 12:52 TestSubject893 wrote: Alright, so I finally got caught up. Here's what I've got to say. GreYMisT seems to be doing the martyr thing we saw vivax and prome do in LX. Its a scummy play and I think its our greatest evidence against anyone right now, so I'll be voting for him. ##Vote: GreYMisT This is a guy who doesnt give a shit.. wants to blend in.. and throws in some "sounds good at first glance" reasoning to feel all safe... Kenpachi is low on time.. but his vote is blunt and to the point.. it shows confidence On March 18 2013 12:07 Kenpachi wrote: So i guess the goodkarma wagon is no more. In that case, i will vote for Greymist instead of zarepeth. Im not getting that with TestSubject.. the vote is meek.. the vote has a flawed premise (which i believe is intentional).. and the vote comes at a time where TestSubject will not be scrutinised. As proven by Day2 play... TestSubject loves to de-lurk when called out.. and he is playing SAFE. Mentality that is all aligned with scum play. This is why i think TestSubject is scum. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:14 sciberbia wrote: OK we really need to consolidate. I have no idea what the votecount is at, but I'd imagine there are still several votes on VE and Wiggles. For those of us who don't like those two candidates, we need a candidate to consolidate on. ace/GK/testsubject have all been thrown out there, but there are disagreements. Personally, I'm nullish on all 3. You guys have given meta reads on all 3 that I could choose to trust in, but as far as in-thread evidence, I'm nullish. Did you read what I wrote? my case is based exactly on in-game behaviour. Why are you trying to derail the therad further by springing in another person. I did not make a meta read on TestSubject sciberbia..... | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:14 DarthPunk wrote: heaps of people piled onto grey mist when he was popular the same is true for me WoS and Viscera Eyes. I don't view the vote onto greymist as enough to lynch him period. and there are several people I would like to lynch before him. Please trust me on goodkarma. I will look at test subject and whoever else you want me to look at tomorrow. But the reality of the situation is. We should not lynch VE. He is the leading candidate. We should consolidate onto goodkarma, lynch scum, and avoid a VE lynch. Look.. if i cant get support on TestSubject. I will consolidate on gk.. but I truly believe TestSubject has a better chance to flip... his defense doesnt even address properly what I came up with. And i dont have a problem he voted GM. lots of ppl did.. its how he went about it.. it doesnt speak town to me at all. its a SAFE vote that has been thrown in a SAFE way to beldn in. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:15 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Touche, and fair pointWhy do I have to do that? Regardless of how hopeless1der played, I read Ace as scum based on his own play since he replaced in the game. If I go back and look at Hopeless1der, I'm just going to end up with an analysis riddled with confirmation bias anyways because I already think Ace is scum. I don't see how it's useful to my case against Ace. You said it yourself, if Ace is scum, Hopeless1der is scum, which means that I'm going to read him that way because I'm already biased against him. Instead, can you tell me something Hopeless1der did that makes Ace town despite my analysis? Because I skimmed through his filter, and I'm not seeing anything worthy of exonerating him. I didnt see anything that struck a chord as scummy when reading day 1. Is hopeles1der a solid scum player? or a sandroba type - lurks as scum guy? | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:23 TestSubject893 wrote: Disagree.. This is simply not true. Tons of people saw his posts as scummy, including myself. The fact that your entire push for me is based on this shows that the whole thing is flawed. Your Day1 filter has more posts relating to gk than GM. you show no interest in the GM push till after the martyr. I dont see how can you say what i said is not true. GM flipped town/blue. And my opinion was, GM was pretty fuckn town until the martyr episode.. the combination of that + lurking, to me would give me consideration to vote him given the candidates on the table. So get off your high horse.. you saw an easy opportunity to have ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY and took it. You think this is me playing safe? Did you see last game? You're pressuring me more in this post than everyone last game did combined, and I did it all while avoiding getting killed at night too. This is not my "safe" game play. | ||
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I think he OMGUS me yesterday.. but on Day1.. i think the stuff on Geript was taken way out of context and there was no OMGUS Like what pissed me off reading day1 was that most of the votes were centered about inactivty instead of scummy agenda. but yeah in short.. quite a few times on dp i felt like he has communicated exactly what was on his mind, and was trying to aid town.. i actually didnt mind his VE case either.. im really surprised it gained no traction. There are valid points in it.. and VE game is "OFF" for shizzle. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:37 WaveofShadow wrote: It had nothing to do with Ace being defensible or Wiggles' case, it's your shameless +1 without adding anything at all. 'HAY GUYS DIS CASE RL GOOD I SHOW U WHY' and then you literally repeat what is in Wriggle's post. Which of you guys was it who found TS scummy again? I can't keep track of anything anymore in this thread. It was me. & I agree, this is the same rationale | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:38 TestSubject893 wrote: How is that a retort?Guess what? "ZERO ACCOUNTABILITY" isn't very safe now is it? Here we are fighting about it. Does my play last game not show you that I understand what will get scrutiny and what won't? You're seeing what you want to see. Its clear there's no talking you off this. If anything your last game, completely shows you are aware... i actually give you credit for the 3rd party win.. for 2 reasons (1) you managed to blend in perfectly (2) you doused ppl that were not likely to be lynched OR shot.. this shows hyper-awareness for thread sentiment. Yes, i was going to kill you, which is prob why you ignited.. but whatevs.. u earnt the win. and i cant believe you are trying to argue zero accountability is not safe. its fuckn safe.. cos you trying to blend in again.. im calling you out cos im the only one who has noticed. no1 has actually refuted my points. Including you. | ||
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quite a few had a scum read on him how can you proceed to vote for your scum reads case; and not even scrutinise either the case itself, or wiggles agenda? Best case scenario: We lynch scum Ace.. does Wiggles become confirmed town? Worst case scenario: We lynch mislynch Ace.. what happens to Wiggles? you guys didnt critique the case, he gets to walk away scot-free. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:47 TranceStorm wrote: Look. I read through all of the cases, and with all of them there is some doubt as to how true they might be. I cannot see any reason why not to vote for Ace. Everyone else who hasn't voted for him gives some skimpy reason for not doing so. For example, Mocsta argues that Hopeless1der didn't appear to be that scummy. That doesn't matter, if someone appears to be town on D1, but really scummy on D2 that shouldn't mean that you should withhold your vote. OK, reason with me Why is my TestSubject case, less valid than Ace My case is predicated on in-game behaviour.. that captures scum mentality. Wiggles case is meta.. on a guy, who rarely plays anymore, and is more than capable of "changing it up" | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:50 Mr. Wiggles wrote: Well, I have to leave now to go sleep, but I'd like to wake up to Ace flipping red. The push-back to the case has been weird, with people saying that it's a strong case, but it's too late to vote for him, when there's now 4 votes on him, and several people have been swapping votes or trying to bring up other counter-wagons at the same time. Remember to think critically about it though, and not just sheep. I want people to vote with me because they agree with the case, not because it becomes some popular bandwagon. Sweet dreams. The case reads great my problem is.. you have chosen one game.. out of the ?i dunno hundred+? games ace has played to highlight the meta inconsistency That doesnt cut it.. Players with his game count, will have a game that highlights a specific behaviour set.. they change it up. I think Ace needs more time to establish his agenda... i didnt like his pushes on VE yesterdya, in fact, a lot of the quotes you posted, were in response to me calling him out. So yes, the case reads great.. but i want to still see more.. its like sandroba. great player, and should be allowed a full cycle in the game. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:49 geript wrote: 3. Test for martyring is scummy, emotionally detached and safe votes. Martyring should be a policy lynch from here forth but can be done from either side. Dude.. if im being tunneled. i will take a breather and come back Your the psychology guy.. do you really think the things i poitned out on test, could come from either alignment? Test didnt martyr either, so i get the impression perhaps you have not read my case in detail. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:53 Mr. Wiggles wrote: My case on Ace is based on him promising to scumhunt while failing to do so and simultaneously derailing the town away from scumhunting by focusing them elsewhere. He also doesn't question The Mirror being third party at all, while using that as the basis for his push to kill VE. You'd think he'd at least provide an argument for why The Mirror must be an actual recruiter and can't just be mafia. The meta part is just extra, and the case stands on its own without it. I dont think it does. I queried him on most of this last night. He gave his reasons for not scum hunting. And i cant have a go at him for posting without readin gthe thread.. that would be hypocritical. He doesnt question the mirror being 3rd party? half the thread online at the time didnt question it.. These are all "worst case scenario' points.. and to me.. do not explain a mafia mentality. so to me. the case doesnt hold without the "one-off" meta example. | ||
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On March 21 2013 13:57 TranceStorm wrote: Ok, I'll reason with you. Your TestSubject case, while compelling has a couple of assumptions that might be flawed. For example, you articulate that TestSubject's vote on GM was based on scummy reasoning: "all martyrs are scum -> GM is scum". However, I don't think that bad reasoning equates to scummy reasoning, hell, there has been plenty of bad reasoning throughout the entire day, and both you and I have been guilty of it. I fail to see the 'scummy agenda' behind the vote. Whereas in Ace's case - there is no debate needed about scummy reasoning or what not. Forget about the meta arguments. The mere fact that Ace has done nothing else in the game, no reads, no pushes on anyone, nothing besides the easy job of targeting VE is more scummy than TestSubject's justification for voting for GM. At least you admit the reasoning from testsubject is bad. Im not accusing him of bad reasoning though. I am saying he is blatantly misrepresenting reasoning as vote justification... the key point is that he was just in a game where town martyred.. yet he conveniently leaves this out.. how is that *bad*?? As for Ace.. basically u are advocating a "low activity" lynch... are you really suggesting here that TL finest scum.. who even wrote a guide on how to play adaptive scum, will proceed to just lurk; and be caught so easily? | ||
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(2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:06 TestSubject893 wrote: You're just putting words in my mouth. We could do that about anyone. Look: You only made that "case" against me because you were intentionally trying to save your scum buddy Wiggles from a lynch. You are blatantly misrepresenting reasoning on why you did that because you don't admit this. You're calling me a liar, and then when I tell you I wasn't lying, you call that a lie too, because obviously I was lying so saying I wasn't is a falsification. Disagree. Your faux-accusation is founded upon conjecture. In my situation: I am basing off fact. i.e. post.. now of course my read is conjecture (every read a townie makes is going to be conjecture, until the flip).. The difference is the foundation.. I honestly can't see how a townie could make that vote post that you did. You and me bantering is not going to go anywhere, of course you are goign to say what you it wasnt scummy. So far, I havnt seen anyone actually refute what im saying Trancestorm had a go.. but didtn actually adddress my content in full. DP had a go.. and didnt address my content in full either. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:07 Mocsta wrote: (1) I dont think the solid makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith (2) Since when you do you vote for your scum reads suspect?.. YOU KNWO THIS.. IN NOMINATION MAFIA AS SCUM.. U DROPPED YOUR SCUM READ ON PALMAR, TO FOLLOW PALMAR SCUM READ: PRPLHZ EBWOP (1) I dont htink the case is solid as it makes a lot of worst-case leaps of faith | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:09 geript wrote: @VE. My top scum targets are ... Moc. Explain | ||
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The case provides explanation for Ace behaviour. In doing so, it takes worst-case scenarios. Why cant Ace be like me.. a guy who got bored reading the thread and decided to comment on the live situation? Frankly. i wasnt a fan of Ace play last night.. but i think its pretty extreme to insta-declare that as scummy. Yes, i wanted him to follow through on his "pro-town" comments.. but frankly.. does he actually know many of the players in this game? perhaps he is sussing out the situation still? i dunno.. i jsut think wiggles is taking worst-case option for each point. A townie case should consider both sides of the fence, and come to a well-reasonsed stance. I felt the case reads beautifully, but lacks consideration of a town-Ace... In factnow that i think about it.. wiggles is aware of this, because the "town motivation" is based on the meta component he incorporated which as i said before is one game in the many many games Ace has played. Of course its easy to find one game that supports the claim. ============= In fact.. the addition of the meta case, to strengthen the argument is pretty scummy. I could swing to a wiggles vote based on that action. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:17 TestSubject893 wrote: The entity of your case comes down to a single point that I address in bold here. I've yet to see you tell me why that reasoning is something a "townie could never do". You're being intentionally uncooperative with me and putting words in my mouth the entire time. How is this case enough to kill me over the many other good targets we have? Why don't you want to kill BH for his blatant lack of reasoning for voting me D1? Surely its far worse that what I've done. I actually like this last response from you. It has the right amount of confidence/aggression in it. Im going to take a step back this cycle & When this lynch is over, im going to read your whole filter in detail and decide whether i want to still pursue this martyr vote. As I said to DP prior: because Im not gettign support on this lynch, i will consolidate on either. gk or wiggles. And yes, I find it odd BH said he liked my case on u.. but i had to prod him to add his vote.... not sure what to make of it. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:20 geript wrote: 1. I didn't like your handling of the WoS stuff last night as we covered. I'm still leaning scum on WoS and it felt very artificial 2. This play seems very much like the nmm37 and hydra game where your aggro without a point 3. The shifting back in how far you read (22, 15, 17, etc) seems odd in the least 4. I need to review your targets again but a GM quote struck a chord re:easy targets 5. The case on test seems like some psych bs that I pulled and iirc you tend to make bs cases as scum iirc 6. You seem to be trying to propagate the negative town atmosphere. 1. Association read - watvs 2. Im pretty shocked to hear that. I think theres a complete contrast so.. watevz 3. Fair enough.. I have given explanation if you dont like it.. watevz 4. Im not sure what that infers - indulge me 5. I disagree. The case is base on behaviour I think exhibits mafia mentality.. if you think that is bullshit, u were welcome to explain to me why it could be townie in nature.. U DIDNT.. instead u call me out... so watevz 6. I dont know what you're talking about... yeah im spamming, but im getting ppl talking.. fact is.. this town has had zero leadership all game; yet somehow your pinpointing this on a replacement... watevs Out of 6 points, i would like to hear more about 4. pl0x | ||
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On March 21 2013 12:09 Mr. Wiggles wrote: I want Ace to die. As I'm about to show, he is scum, and his head should roll. Firstly, I will give an overview of Ace's play this game. So far, he has been: Promising reads on mafia, but not delivering any. Pushing a lynch on someone based on the assumption that they are third party, to the exclusion of everything else*. Talking about general role mechanics/fluff otherwise. - Inactivty != scum - How is this different to others online at the time? - Town and scum both talk about mechanics When Ace joined the game, he made this post, indicating that he was excited to join the game and start scumhunting: Yes its not a gleaming town post.. I don’t see how this automatically relegates him to the scum bench. However, since then, he has yet to share a cogent read on who he thinks is mafia. The closest we get to a solid mafia read from Ace is him calling Mocsta scum, with a small amount of justification, but in the hours that follow before he posts again, he doesn't make any sort of push for his lynch or pressure him. As well, the only other read Ace provides is to call WoS town, but more solid reasoning doesn't come until directly after WoS has claimed DT and therefore put the brakes on his lynch. Why is not Coag pulled into line by Wiggles for calling WoS town? Since then, the only thing Ace has provided are more promises of finding mafia and pushing the lynch onto VE based on an emotional push that plays on town's fears while trying to stopper discussion on other lynch targets. Agreed in fullHe makes this post asking town to stop talking about other lynch targets and to lynch VE: Yes agreed. I called him out for it. Were there not others online at the same time that did the same thing? I.e. tunnel VE.. Why is only Ace getting scrutinised?He is then questioned about why we can't scumhunt and lynch VE at the same time, and this is how he responds: So here he's saying that we should still scumhunt while we lynch VE. However, he has not done that. He has not shared any reads, and he has not provided any information that might help town find mafia to follow his own plan of shooting them tonight. There is no reason not to talk about other scum candidates during the day, even if the decision to lynch VE was unanimous, as it is still time that town can easily use to discuss cases and help formulate targets for a potential vig. Ace has not done this, but instead has continued tunneling on the VE wagon, without feeling the need to do anything else of value, despite posting throughout the day. I don’t like Ace reasoning for providing no read (that I questioned him about) but.. I don’t see how that response again condemns him to being scum. Now, I will explain why I find the way Ace is pushing the VE lynch scummy: Yes and these points apply to many in the thread at the time. I know because I was there. I was one of the only ppl critically challenging the integrity of the logs. Again.. one behaviour that applies to Ace, is not applicable to all the other ppl who made a showing?Firstly, he does not question The Mirror at all. Ace simply assumes that The Mirror is a third party recruiter and that VE has been recruited without taking any time to reflect on the situation, instead opting to sweep up town into a whirlwind of paranoia and confusion. Ace is very quick to spam the idea that VE is third party and that he has to be the lynch, as shown in these posts: + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 01:24 Ace wrote: lynch VE. now. On March 21 2013 01:38 Ace wrote: your right, it's not like a claimed Vet is a confirmed Town sure to get shot because he is running around popping Scum and didn't just say he accepted an invite from 3rd party. Stop being ridiculous. On March 21 2013 01:42 Ace wrote: I dont have one, and I don't think it's important right now.Lynch VE. On March 21 2013 01:47 Ace wrote: Who CARES if he is a Vet? He just posted logs of him joining a 3rd party and even said fuck the Town. This isn't hard. On March 21 2013 01:52 Ace wrote: Stop talking about other people and stay focused on one person at a time. Jesus I don't want to have to teach people how to play my first game back in months. Just dealwith VE now. Re-read the log: He accepted to join a 3rd party that clearly doesn't have interest in helping the Town. Whether VE is still Townis irrelevant: whatever powers he gets or grants to the 3rd party isn't going to help us. Lynch him now. Treat him like a self aware Miller and just solve the problem immediately. Within 30 minutes, Ace has posted 5 times reinforcing that VE is third-party and has to be lynched. In later posts, he continues to overplay the threat of VE that he has established, saying that he has extra powers, that he's unkillable, and that we'd have an unlynchable anti-town player at one point. These don't provide any additional reasons for why VE is scum, instead they only help scare town into thinking VE will become some unstoppable third party if he's left alive. Now, I find this disingenuous, because Ace did not take any time to consider any other possibilities, and he took everything said in the QT at face value. He does not question if The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter, he does not question if VE actually receives powers, he does not question anything at all. Instead, he takes the opportunity of the posted logs to derail the town into a witch hunt and single-mindedly beats in the idea that VE is now third party. Ace is a very good scum player. He has a keen sense of timing and is quick to seize opportunities presented to him in the thread. He played a very lurky style without doing much of anything until he saw his chance and jumped on VE and his QT logs. Since then he has pushed only this idea, which makes it look like he is actually doing something, while he has done nothing at all, and distracts town from hunting mafia. This is very reasonable to say, and makes me indeed suspicious of Ace. I don’t see evidence to hang him that does not apply to others.This is why I believe Ace is scum, and needs to hang. Again as I said before.. hes taking worst case scenarios.. every decision ace makes is scummy and intentional to derail the town. So to give balance of a case.. he provides a supporting meta that indicates when ace replaced in a game.. he tried to be aggressive and give reads instantly. The corollary.. Ace replacing in a game that is lurking has to be scum. I think this is bullshit.. and is one cherry picked example out of a huge amount of games ace has played. As I said before.. that wiggles had the situational awareness to throw this specific supporting meta in.. is scummy as fuck to me. + Show Spoiler [meta] + Supporting Meta: + Show Spoiler + As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum. Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377 I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling. In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts: + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote: I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote: Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food. I roll auto-town in every game I play. On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote: youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind. In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances. Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum. The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch? Remember, the Mayor if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else. So why would you lynch youngminii? The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player. Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move. But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor. supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum. On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote: supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally). Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good. Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs. Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town. If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with. It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game. As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited. So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:30 TestSubject893 wrote: I was talking about his day 1 vote that was literally unexplained. I've been over this already, have you even been reading the thread? You probably skipped it because of the shitfest he threw over it. Its in my filter you'll see it. Also, the fact that calling you unreasonable got you to back off is super scummy. If you're town how about you start listening to reasoning instead of plugging your ears and whistling when someone you accuse posts. Its a lot easier for us to solve the game that way. Had nothing to do with calling me unreasonable. I liked your tone in explaining your position to me. was confident in a self-assured way. i didnt sniff fear. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:34 geript wrote: There was the quote from GM re: how scum like to attack low thread presence players. Off the top of my head, your targets have been WoS, Test and Laya. But I haven't read your filter in 24 hours or so, so I'd want to go back and recheck that. Right.. well it would be hypocritical for me to have a go at u for calling ppl scum without reading the thread. i would have thougth however, that the way i have been pushing a lynch this cycle.. is indicative of my alignment. obviously not. | ||
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i know ace is prob gonna be lynched, but i do not support that lynch with the reasoning i gave here http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057¤tpage=109#2179 | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:49 Wade Fell wrote: U 2.. this back/forth is not helpingExcept you're actively pretending to be a helpful dude (albeit poorly) rather than just being afk its just snide remarks... at least me /test were going back forward about a case... this is simply uselss.. spammy.. and not helping us to consolidate | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:50 Wade Fell wrote: 1) he's town and 2) like at least vote someone who might get lynched today man The only two ppl i will vote today is wiggles or gk i prefer wiggles.. but gk has a higher chance to be voted than wiggles i have to vote gk. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:51 VisceraEyes wrote: Scum are trying to spam away the Wiggles case. I'm going to repost it every page until the lynch. Let me guess.. my counter to it was shite and not applicable? lol.. wait. i dont need to guess.. course a tunneled VE is gonna say that. | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:54 WaveofShadow wrote: So looking at the vote count all the votes on VE currently are people who are not likely to return to the thread before deadline, read: sheep voted and fucked off. There is so much WTF spread over the low count votes I don't even know where to begin. The only logical choices I see right now are Wiggle/GK/VE/Ace. Ideally I'd like to leave my vote on GK since I trust DPs read on him and am openly sheeping based on my townread of DP, but the GK lynch doesn't appear likely. I'm not sure I like the idea of an Ace lynch or a VE lynch so I'm debating moving my vote back to Wriggle. Kita (townread) parked his vote there but I believe it was before Wriggle came back to make his case...I really wish people stuck around more. It's the same 6-7 people doing all the talking here. Mocsta, same question I asked DP. If we are voting GK now but nothing else changes before deadline, what will you do? Im taking a stand.. and leaving my vote on GK if you join us. he will be on 6 votes ace 5 so i think we can get gk lynched. | ||
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Breakdown of Aces case.... its not as good as it reads.. and biases scum points for Ace, and ignores similar behaviour on others present at the same time. On March 21 2013 14:43 Mocsta wrote: - Inactivty != scum - How is this different to others online at the time? - Town and scum both talk about mechanics Yes its not a gleaming town post.. I don’t see how this automatically relegates him to the scum bench. Why is not Coag pulled into line by Wiggles for calling WoS town? Agreed in full Yes agreed. I called him out for it. Were there not others online at the same time that did the same thing? I.e. tunnel VE.. Why is only Ace getting scrutinised? I don’t like Ace reasoning for providing no read (that I questioned him about) but.. I don’t see how that response again condemns him to being scum. Yes and these points apply to many in the thread at the time. I know because I was there. I was one of the only ppl critically challenging the integrity of the logs. Again.. one behaviour that applies to Ace, is not applicable to all the other ppl who made a showing? This is very reasonable to say, and makes me indeed suspicious of Ace. I don’t see evidence to hang him that does not apply to others. Again as I said before.. hes taking worst case scenarios.. every decision ace makes is scummy and intentional to derail the town. So to give balance of a case.. he provides a supporting meta that indicates when ace replaced in a game.. he tried to be aggressive and give reads instantly. The corollary.. Ace replacing in a game that is lurking has to be scum. I think this is bullshit.. and is one cherry picked example out of a huge amount of games ace has played. As I said before.. that wiggles had the situational awareness to throw this specific supporting meta in.. is scummy as fuck to me. + Show Spoiler [meta] + Supporting Meta: + Show Spoiler + As scum, I find that Ace often likes to waste town's time talking about useless things, while doing only the minimal amount needed to look town. For example, in Sleeper Cell mafia, he got town to talk about a hypothetical situation which had no bearing on the game, wasting time on Day 1. In Wheel of Fortune mafia, he launched town into a discussion of role mechanics and possible set-up plans, distracting from scumhunting and effective play. I see the same sort of play here, with Ace pushing the town into considering third parties and possible recruiters instead of focusing on scum. Additionally, I would like to contrast his play here to his play in Mafia XLVII, which I hosted. In that game, Ace replaced into the game on Day 2, taking on the role of Vigilante. As well, to put things in perspective, at that time there were over 100 pages posted, and the town was in near complete chaos without any strong town leaders or direction. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690 http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=285690&user=377 I was very interested to see Ace's town play that game, and while he was unfortunately modkilled, I think the distinction in play between this game and that one is pretty telling. In that game, Ace was aggressive and assertive, trying quickly to set the town back on track and get them focused on hunting scum. He wasn't scared to share reads and didn't waste time mincing words. To illustrate, I'll quote his first four posts: + Show Spoiler + On November 28 2011 08:29 Ace wrote: I will not even read my role PM and still win this game. First thing you guys should do is lynch Palmar and then lynch supersoft. On November 28 2011 08:34 Ace wrote: Also hier and that guy's name that starts with a v were making a lot of sense from my skims. You should protect them at all costs. Everyone else is food. I roll auto-town in every game I play. On November 28 2011 08:47 Ace wrote: youngminii isn't a bad player at all. In fact he had a decent amount of posts. Let's keep that in mind. In any game of Mafia with a day start everyone that is Town aligned has no information outside of themselves barring special circumstances. Also keep in mind that lynches are used to get rid of Scum. The Mayor gets his 1 time auto-lynch. Who should he lynch? Remember, the Mayor if Town doesn't know who is Scum. He is just as much in the dark as everyone else. So why would you lynch youngminii? The only justification is if he can be proven to be Scum. But it's a day start, hence Palmar doesn't have enough information to justify lynching an active player. Typically you want to lynch someone that is inactive or known to be useless. YM doesn't fit either of these criteria. The Mayor abused his power to get rid of someone who he didn't like. Which even if he was Town-aligned shows our Mayor isn't fit enough for office to think clearly and take dissenting opinions without making a bold move. But Palmar is a decent player (far, far, far below my level but still). So he should know better than to do that. Combine his expected behavior with his ridiculous actions = Scum Mayor. supersoft is terrible so you want to get rid of him asap. Easily sheeped into doing Scummy things. Very possible he is Scum. On November 28 2011 08:51 Ace wrote: supersoft is a typical sheep. However if he's easily pandering to Palmar and handroba to convince him that just reeks of Scum selling his vote (until it hits an ally). Now, contrast that to this game. While the circumstances are very similar, the difference in play seems night and day. The Ace in this game is not the same town Ace that I enjoyed watching play in XLVII. In this game, he is not worried about catching scum or providing direction to the town. He is only worried with wasting time and doing enough to make himself look good. Now, I'll talk a little bit about VE and his logs. Firstly, there's no reason to believe that The Mirror is actually a third party recruiter. All we have to support that idea, is The Mirror's word, which for obvious reasons we cannot trust. In fact, it makes sense to me that The Mirror is a scum mason. VE already outed BH in the thread as masoning him, and had outed The Mirror rather quickly as well. Scum would know this, so by masoning VE, they can nearly assure that he will report back to the thread with what he was told. This puts the idea in the thread that there's a third party recruiter, which would cause mass confusion for town. If town thinks there's a third party, they're going to start looking for third party players that don't exist. They're going to point out people as being third party, they're going to want to kill people for being third party, and later in the game when no third parties have flipped, town will get nervous and start looking for third party under the assumption that there's quite a lot of them by now and therefore they're a present threat that needs to be dealt with. It's a very good, slick, move for mafia, because it costs them nothing (the mason is anonymous), but it causes mass confusion and misdirection in the town from the time it is revealed until the end of the game. As well, I can't really see VE doing what he did if he was actually recruited. Firstly, why out himself or his new ally to the thread, especially at the same time? It doesn't make any sense. It's much better to keep is new faction a secret, so that they can gain strength. Posting it in the thread doesn't benefit him at all. Therefore, it's much more likely that VE was not recruited. So overall, I think The Mirror is very likely to be a mafia mason trying to spread confusion | ||
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On March 21 2013 14:57 WaveofShadow wrote: I'm already on GK ohhh well hopefully we can sway someone else | ||
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u said wiggles case read well.. do u still like it after the poitns I made? | ||
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Its more focused on some specifics. The points he raises are the same concerns I had with Aces play yesterday as well. I think he does the same thing as wiggles though, treats everything as worst-case. I will agree though, the specific points he highlighted are much easier to visualise originating from scum. Thing is. a lot of his case is based on association with a town VE... i really dunno where i stand with VE.. the whole thing is a clusterfuck. I dont feel confident calling VE anything right now. Which puts the case as a whole in a funny spot for me.. if someone can show me why VE is definitely town.. i will swap to an Ace vote. to me.. VE play has been off all game If he was town.. im sure scum would love him out | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:33 VisceraEyes wrote: There was 1KP N1 and I claimed a hit? What kind of evidence are you looking for? Man.. i have played in a couple town games with you recently (and scum )my first game with u was normal mini mafia 4.. it hink you were NK'd night 1. u were a bit crazy that game. but i could tell u was town. the games u have been town.. i can tell u are town.. u have a wildness about u.. but its founded on curiosity im not getting any of that this game... but im not getting any of what i see in a scum ve either.. everytime u do something i like.. u follow up with something i dont like... and the whole mirror logs things is such a cluterfuck. you're the biggest question mark in the game for me.. you really are VE. im relaly hoping you're town and having a bad game.. either that or u work best when u have someone to bounce ideas off.. (and no1 was present for that this game) | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:37 sciberbia wrote: This. The biggest facts about VE all imply town 1. claimed vet and took hit and only 1 shot 2. outed WF when it would have made much more sense to shoot him if VE were scum 3. outed Mirror when it would make much more sense to keep quiet as scum I *think* I disagree.. im so confused Yes, these *ACTIONS* imply town. but we need to consider the motivation behind these actions. Why claim vet? How does that help? Outing WF is town points; that mason log was just weird The mirror.. i agree it would make more sense to keep quiet as scum.. but the way he handled it the whole thing is just fuckn bizairre as.... like he doesnt say anything specific about the mirror till layabout throws a case on WF that mentions the mirror The mason logs didnt have time stamps like just a lot of bizairre shit. | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:43 VisceraEyes wrote: I'm having a bad game. That's a fact. Regardless of what you think of my alignment, you can see this to be the case (I'm about to be lynched D2, this helps no one on my team regardless which team it is). But all the FACTS point to me being town. OK.. i dunno why.. but i feel better hearing that. i think it takes guts to admit what u said. KK.. soz DP..with a town VE, i think the ACE case looks a lot stronger. I will throw down my support on a former TL Finest. ##Unvote ##Vote: Ace | ||
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My gut is telling me. u love scum play, and wouldnt try and be this bad intentionally YOLO right.. lol | ||
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i would look very carefully into coag im reading hopeless filter now, to double check on ace.. and hes one of the proponents of defending coag to TPS using meta | ||
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You would prefer 3rdparty to flip over scum? | ||
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yeah.. and how does that NOT answer my question? | ||
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On March 21 2013 15:59 VisceraEyes wrote: So you're certain that "The Mirror" is 3rd party and not on the scumteam? Care to share how you acquired this knowledge Mocsta? VE Fuck you, and your bullshit. The thread sentiment is that the mirror is the 3rd party. I took a leap of faith on u, and dont need this crap. | ||
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Wiggles needs to go.... for all the reasons when i smashed his case in particular the meta addition. | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:02 Coagulation wrote: wiggles is scum and you fucks let him off the hook and lynched the first person he pointed at thanks for delurking to add that in honey | ||
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what is the implication for VE now.... hhmmmpphh taking a break too.. peace out. | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:07 geript wrote: What a complete waste of time. You were the tie-breaker vote on Ace.. Where was your critical thought on the matter.. your the one wasting our time. | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:21 geript wrote: I was asked a good question that I didn't have an answer to. I applied Occam's Razor. Funny how your whole thought process on VE is "Gee looks like you're having an off game. Hope you're not scum bro." What do u actually have an answer to this game Geript? Im noticing a propensity to come in.. throw pot shots, and fuck off. Do you contest? | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:27 geript wrote: Yup. I've given straight up answers as best I've been capable of. k.. heres my straight up question read on sciberbia town, null or scum. | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:50 geript wrote: town k. part II leaning, probably, confirmed town? | ||
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On March 21 2013 16:56 geript wrote: I would say 95% sure that he's town. Interesting development You easily made 6 or so points on why u thought im scum. can you please flesh out a couple points to justify your sciberbia read. | ||
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On March 21 2013 17:05 geript wrote: I can follow his train of thought. He writes clearly and has a point. Where is this line of questioning going? I'm not seeing any point in this. Im trying to learn about you Geript. I want to know if we share the same opinion. Now.. that we have a benchmark Can i have your read on layabout pls. | ||
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I haven't re read the critiques I made of both ace cases but I'm pretty sure the major diff with tps and wiggles Was that tps case focused on micro. This naturally can lead to a tunneled conclusion Wiggles focussed on the macro. This is why I thought his case was scummy. A macro case has to consider both sides. And his case was completely one sided. The fact that he included the supporting meta indicates he was completely aware this was required for "balance" I'm still really frustrated with town this game. Barely anyone is critically analysing cases brought forth.. And ppl are allowing lurkers to come in, make one post and completely change town sentiment. No one has stepped up to be town leader. As I said during the cycle. If wiggles was a scum read... How can u drop that suddenly and sheep his case without doing a proper evaluation. In fairness a lot might have to do with the lynch deadline. I assume its around 3am for most of u. So most people are asleep making it difficult to organise last minute swaps. Kk rant over. This might be my last post till the deadline. Not sure if im a target this cycle. But will make a last will regardless. | ||
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Yes I am. | ||
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What makes u use that word. I enquire because geript thinks I'm scum. | ||
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I critiqued wiggles case. He is not going to escape from this scot-free On March 21 2013 13:47 Mocsta wrote: Even if wiggles case on Ace reads well... quite a few had a scum read on him how can you proceed to vote for your scum reads case; and not even scrutinise either the case itself, or wiggles agenda? Best case scenario: We lynch scum Ace.. does Wiggles become confirmed town? Worst case scenario: We lynch mislynch Ace.. what happens to Wiggles? you guys didnt critique the case, he gets to walk away scot-free. | ||
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On March 21 2013 23:28 layabout wrote: What is wrong with you people? Excuse me | ||
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Yeah I think our right. Thnx for reminding me | ||
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On March 21 2013 23:37 layabout wrote: Mocsta you have 12 pages of filter from before you read the thread FFS stop playing like this!!! Excuse me. Where were u when the thread was at a critical point? U can attack me for a spammy filter whatever..but at least I was here when it mattered | ||
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Question. Geript. His filter states that he was a firm advocate of a ve lynch. And he even went out of his way to produce some reasons why. However, if u look at the final vote count. His vote went from from vote leader ve to ace, thus putting ve and ace in a tie breaker. I couldn't see any reference in his filter to suggest he was keen on an ace vote. 1. Do u agree with the above. 2. Both if u have played with geript before. Are u finding his posting to be what u expect of a town geript? | ||
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On March 21 2013 23:54 layabout wrote: In bed asleep because i live in England and it was 2am-7am and you all thought it was a great time to dick on everything that happened when ppl were here. There is a reason days are 48 hours long. Also you were spamming when you hadn't even read the fucking thread. How in god's name are you playing when you have not read the fucking thread? And how can what you are saying be of value? It was rhetorical I knew where u were. Regardless u have been a non entity almost the entire game. I don't see how u can even want to contest that. And dude. Stop throwing stones from glass houses, cos.. Whats ya point here. We just had a mislynch, and when shit went down u weren't here. Where is your effort to figure out how we got to an ace lynch. Instead. What we get is u throwing shit at me. And for what purpose? How is this solving the game? If u think I'm scum.. Call me scum.. Say I'm spamming and prove I have added zero value. Otherwise, go and do some thing useful...hint.. Trying to discredit me does not count. | ||
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I fully agree with trancestorm. He said some things during the end of cycle that pinged my scumdar. Specifically with in regards to test subject. Gk is scum for sure. That's clear from the BH mason logs... D1 mason chat can't be that trusting Dyh.. Not sure. Havt spent much time looking into him. | ||
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I would gladly bomb u all over again layabout. Feel free to report me for spamming of u don't like what I'm doing. P.s. thnx for not bothering to refute anything I said. I already it was futile. Unhave no leg to stand on. Again. Either call me scum Or stop wasting my time by spamming the thread with this non sense. | ||
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Thnx for being honest. Funny u ,mention glurio cos before I believe it was u that asked me to stop commenting on him. Either way. G`nite | ||
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On March 22 2013 08:32 Kenpachi wrote: also Mocsta called me a troll. Tell me you're not joking cause you are despicable if you're saying SHEEP ME as town. Go fuck yourself | ||
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On March 22 2013 05:59 cosmicomics wrote: goodkarma acknowledges that Mr. Wiggles is very scummy, but "feels" like his case is still worth consideration. He then puts his vote on Ace while acknowledging the lack of time. Let me repeat that. He acknowledges that his super scummy read Mr. Wiggles made a case, that the case "feels" ok even though he didn't have time to read it, an proceeds to side with his super scum read Mr. Wiggles. He moves his vote before he looks further into this. And he doesn't look into it at all! This means that goodkarma, without properly reading his scum read Mr. Wiggles' case decided it was better to err on his side and vote Ace. Before reading. How does he respond to Ace's flip? He blames town for not voting in a way where he can analyze the vote results. Where does he get off doing this? Even when he talks about the Ace mislynch, notice where the blame lies. He blames Ace for not playing the way he should have. He doesn't admit any fault of his own, he doesn't give an explanation why did a hard hard 180 on someone he called super scummy, and he doesn't even bother trying to draw conclusions about Mr. Wiggles' alignment! He is overly concerned with how he himself is perceived rather than showing any indication of trying to figure out the game. He blames everyone else but makes sure to explain why he deserves none of the blame. He lectures town on how they should behave rather than providing any meaningful contribution / insights, even into the person who swayed him to lynch Ace. Who flipped town. goodkarma is scum | ||
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On March 22 2013 01:06 zarepath wrote: Okay, so for the next bit it's going to look like I"m slinging crap at everybody unnecessarily, but I pulled out all the suspicious posts I wanted to talk about as I was catching up, so it's not all aligned into big cases yet, but I don't want these things looked over or forgotten. I noticed that right at the time when everyone is asking for consolidation, Mocsta busted out a completely different wagon. Also notice that Mocsta has been getting a LOT of mileage out of criticizing people for jumping onto the Ace case. He was pretty critical of those on the Ace case, but not really pushing his own case that much. It's not that he had a town read on ACe; he just wanted to criticize those voting for him for some reaosn. And right after the flip, he re-quotes himself saying that. This is absolutely wrong, and does not represent how the cycle went down. If this is truly what you think occured then i see two options (1) You got lazy and skimmed the thread Or (2) You are scum blatantly misrepresenting How the fuck, can you say I wasnt pushing my case. This is the biggest crock of shit I have read since waking up. I am the only person who applied critical thought when VE did his 3rd party bullshit I am the only person who applied critical thought when the Ace cases came out I am the only person calling out everyone for voting their fucking scum reads, targets. This game is fucked and full of absolute retards (not the scum. they are doing a great job) There is fuck all town putting any deep thought into anything. Everyone is going nuts off small things, e.g. the Vivax "yamato" slip... does not anyone fuckn know, Vivax loves guessing smurfS? it was never a slip. its just what we does.. FFS.. yet ppl managed to spam that shit for pages.. and then have the gall to call me a prolifer spammer. This is meant in full sincerity.. the town environment in this game is worse than personality2. Maybe marv was wrong on his reads.. but at least there was a fuckn leader. .this game is all sheep that log in, throw a pot shot and then fuck off.. and hide behind the rule of the game sayin :no spamming" Dr.H offered me the opportunity for a modkill. I have accepted. Dont expect any night reads from me. | ||
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On March 30 2013 17:22 ThePeashooter wrote: Even if you are scum, if you are winning purely because you spammed the thread that's not a real win. That would be equivalent to me trying to get you modkilled because I think you are scum. Winning the game through illegitimate methods defeats the point in playing the game. And I don't believe you will try. I told you how to not triple post, how to not keep posting on your BlazingHand account and you ignored me multiple times and proceeded to triple post. Im catching up and had to stop here. I assume its already been questioned but whatever, I complete abhor and detest this type of mentality. Let me remind you of your reaction to the Ace mislynch. On March 22 2013 10:25 ThePeashooter wrote: I don't see a single point in that read where you show any remorse for securing a mislynch.Do we get the alignment/role of the mod kill? Truthfully I'm a bit happy. Between Wade, VE, and Mocsta they comprised nearly a third of all the posts and I just don't have the patience to to an analysis on someone with a 300 post filter. It took me around 1.5 hours to throw together that case on Ace and write it up when I only had to read 2 pages of content. I can't bring myself to spend a whole day on these people. If someone wants to kill Wade tonight I'd be the happiest person. I'm a bit tired from work and have to get up early so I probably won't be around much until tomorrow night which is about 20 hours from now. I feel bad for my inactivity and inability to get more reads so tomorrow I will bring forth at least one scum case during the day for a lynch and another for a vigilante/the next day. We are in bad shape right now, but we need to pull together, consolidate posts and do some fucking analysis and we can right our little townie ship and pull through. All i see is a person who cares about having spent 1.5hours writing a bogus case. Get off your high horse. You did not lead a lynch on a single scum candidate. Your play this game was woeful and rarely achieved any of the detailed analysis you berated others for not distributing.. you are one of the last people I am going to listen to in regards to what can be considered "optimal play." | ||
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On March 30 2013 18:00 Ace wrote: I was asleep. But seriously I didn't even have a ton of time and I thought I made well reasoned posts, trying to keep everyone focused on 1 thing at a time. Somehow I got blamed for "telling everyone to stop scumhunting" and got lynched. Sigh v_v You had one believer | ||
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On March 30 2013 18:11 RyuSuzaku wrote: Agree with this a lot.yeah speaking of, I read your post about meta and I disagree to an extent. Having talked to Foolishness (and having used his ideas) meta is IMO, a lot of the time, really really important. There are a lot of players who play wildly differently based on alignment. With that said, I can agree with your general sentiment, not because meta is bad, but because it is used badly. I know it's been discussed quite a bit before, but I think the biggest failing is that people associate any change in behavior with a change in alignment. Games are not one to one, and context needs to be considered. Most important obviously though is the motivation for an action, and I think that's a problem with town analysis in general, not just meta analysis. I think the biggest problem town had this game was focusing on the motivation behind the actions of players, rather than simply looking at what they were doing. I know it's stressed in Ver's guide but I still don't think people focus on it enough. It's hard, but I don't think the conscious effort is always there. From a scum perspective meta and motivation are important too; it's how we pegged Vivax as a blue. Both kita and myself pegged Vivax as blue day 1 for separate reasons (read the QT for more) and it was primarily based on the motivation behind different posts he made. kita pegged him on a meta-analysis of his games, and I pegged him based on a single sentence he said. Since both of us agreed on it we were pretty confident he was blue, so he became a priority kill on n2 (though on n1 we chose to ignore him) | ||
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(we didnt know this.. but its in the scum QT) | ||
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On March 31 2013 11:19 DarthPunk wrote: Yes. It was towns fault for not reading or caring and it was my fault for not being convincing enough or having enough thread presence to push two really obvious scum to get lynched. That I agree with. Scum could be found with just some critical reading; and prejudice removed - which of course is easier said than done. | ||
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On March 31 2013 12:06 ThePeashooter wrote: I like how you quoted "optimal play" as if I ever said something was optimal, or that I somehow represented optimal play. I never made such a claim. Mistakes happen. I'm not going to focus on apologizing for fucking something up. It wasn't just me, we all did it. Apologizing does nothing. If I remember correctly I was specifically responding on the issue of spam. It wasn't a brag, it was a statement of fact and a reiteration of my previous points about spam. If most people put a few thoughtful posts into getting someone lynched and spammed a little less it would make the game better by increasing thread readability and therefore allowing more posts to be thoroughly analyzed by town. In contrast scum couldn't just write anything without repercussion because they would be more heavily scrutinized due to minimized post count. Thus I'd imagine both plays would elevate. What I have observed playing here for many years is that both the town and mafia skill has seemingly decreased as post counts increased. I think you abhor what I said simply because it was focused at people like you who ruin this game. Where not games more PM-centric back in those days? If so, the "rules" of play should/would have evolved for better or worse. I am not going to contest/comment about skill level deviations, as I have no background to the past. Regardless, I did over spam this game; but I actually didnt realise this until I was digging up something in my filter for the ObsQT. I can admit that freely. Fact is, what I thought I was achieving at the time.. I simply was not. Frankly, your comments about spam, then suggesting decreasing levels of play all points in addition to pointing out "ruining the game for others": all points toward your opinion of "optimal play". If you had delivered on the analysis that you berated others for not producing; then I would not think of you as a hypocrite. I stand by you needing to get off your high horse. All town played a part in the failures this game. Myself included. My two biggest regrets this game was letting go of BH because I hadn't read the thread completely; and whilst I was close to stopping the Ace lynch, I had too much spam to secure a viable alternative. In fact IIRC all alternatives were town (Wiggles/GK/VE). | ||
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On March 31 2013 14:00 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: Must be a generation gap.This. This is exactly how I felt. I loved Day 1, I felt it was really good and harbored a good environment and there wasn't too much if any spam. Day 2 went to shit insanely fast. What you said is true. When someone has a 12+ page filter Day 2 I don't want to go through it and I'm sure I'm not the only one. Like you, life obligations have taken precedence over the time I can spent playing mafia. I thought Day 1 was terrible. It took me forever to read the 30-odd pages. Why? All of the posts were heavily refined - to the point - emotions had almost been removed. I am a "feel" reader, as I suspect most of the newer players are. We need natural thought processes to gain insight on others alignment. To exacerbate this quandary; the "tells" everyone were working off Day 1, in my opinion were not genuine scum tells. Perhaps the game has changed from 3 years ago. But these days, activity is not an alignment indicator. Nor is a propensity for attempting to guess smurfs; or laying down early pressure votes for stupid behaviour. Yes, town had a consolidated post count Day1; but in my opinion it was not conducive to catching scum - due to improper focus of attention. This was proven throughout the game via the quantity of mislynches, and cases brought forth on scum. TL;DR There are many ways to skin a cat. I am not arguing post consolidation is bad. I am commenting that post consolidation by itself does NOT make a good town make. | ||
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On March 31 2013 14:03 RebirthOfLeGenD wrote: This is why I really hated this third party role. I felt like if scum was somehow converted he could never authentically play his new role. Either it would be too broken by posting the mafia team and GGing the game, or he would just float back to his team and try to get the third party killed which went directly against his win condition, but would also be creating a new win condition for him by allowing him to regain his former win condition. Agree in full. I think I commented a similar thing in the obsqt. Im still not sure whether layabout knew he would re-convert though? | ||
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& im shocked, it went so easily i mean.. there wasnt even a sense of concern from layabout? odd, because I thought i read that once layabout converted he lost the mason ability with cosmicomics. Hence? "HOW" could Kitaman mason him; and why was this never questioned? The whole thing is convoluted.. regardless.. well earnt win, and good adaption to the day4 lynch environment. | ||
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On March 31 2013 15:54 RyuSuzaku wrote: not true, but VE really has no ground to stand on here. layabout lost his mason ability with cosmic, but was still able to converse with scum (kita) kita lied and said he had been masoned by cosmic that cycle. Obviously no way for layabout to confirm since mason contact was broken. Thats one of the whole things that is broken about this conversion thing, in my opinion. Officially, if layabout converted and changed win-con.. he should not have access to the QT. Thus, Kita should never have been able to communicate with him. Obviously, scum will know if this is the case. I just think the mechanic is broken. If you can not convert mafia... how do you tell the converter, who he CAN and CAN NOT convert? That breaks the game as well. | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:01 Ace wrote: Recruiter gets notified their conversion failed not knowing why (Priest type roles that block conversion or trying to convert Mafia) or Recuiter dies the night they try to convert Mafia. If this happens they either get a new recruiter picked from the existing ones in the faction (broken for obvious reasons) or the better but more controversial way: everyone in the faction dies when the leader dies. I think that is what sl0osh/cosmi assumed was the case. (star crossed lovers IIRC) If the priest is a one-off blue role, than the chances of failing on mafia >> failing on a priest. So I am not a fan of the failed conversation method. Perhaps this whole situation could have been averted if layabout still had mason access to CC. He could have held off the discourse with kita, to confirm first with CC? Recruiter becomes a bit like zerg then.. continual psionic link | ||
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This game specifically confirmed my love for Night Cycle - 23hr action submission deadline. Considering the 24hr deadline was "fluid"; it was frustrating that the validity of vig claims be questioned purely due to a moving deadline; or BH final words require to be deleted etc I have only seen the 23hr submission deadline in newbies, so uncertain why it is not apparent in the normal league? Any context I am missing? | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:24 Ace wrote: hmm? If you mean 48hour day/24 hour night cycles I think that was the standard for a long time. its still 48/24 cycle but the submission deadline is 48/23 thus there is a 1hour deadzone, where you can post freely without consequence. (i.e. change to actions both town and scum) Allows "final words" to be made with confidence of not influencing the night actions etc. Also means, ppl can go to sleep 1 hr earlier | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:26 Blazinghand wrote: Oh yeah I had a huge HYOOOOJ post I made 5 minutes before the deadline the night I died, but the second I posted it DrH posted the day post 5 minutes early and he had me edit my post out ;_; That agitated me. I witnissed that post before deletion. And it gave away some leads to follow based on a red flip IIRC | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:29 Blazinghand wrote: It was his decision to make. our posts were made within seconds of each other Ohhh yes, i realised that + it was well within the rules to request a deletion. (based on the NO post after death clause) But it was still frustrating deadlines could be +- 5min. Look @ testsubject vig claim, and how shady that looked in conjunction with your death coming 5 min early. I think deadlines need to be firm, if you dont have a 1hr deadzone period. | ||
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On March 31 2013 16:32 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea. I can't think of a serious reason for night to ever be ended early. I think if the host nor cohost can make the deadline, they should find some impartial third party to make the post. Or, even just delay it. I also hate late posts, but I would 10000% rather have a 3 hour late day post than one 5 minutes early with no warning. In a game I co-hosted All 3 of us couldnt be around at the deadline. So I told the group hours in advance, I would be ceasing the night 30min early. I think as long as notice is given, it can be acceptable, as we all do have social lives But, this can all be alleviated via the 23hr action resolution time frame.  | ||
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On March 31 2013 17:17 RyuSuzaku wrote: if I'm not mistaken, I was the originator of that 1 hour deadline thing (if someone did it before me, then I am unaware) however for whatever reason only my games ever had it. Apparently one of the newbie game hosts decided it was a good idea, I suppose? I guess so? Acrofales is the where I learnt about it. I think its a really solid idea to implement. | ||
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On April 01 2013 09:45 layabout wrote: I also think this set-up was a hard win for mafia compared to others, town had 3 vigis, medic, cop, and it took 2(?) modkills 1 mis vig shot, 4 town mislynches and a 3p lynch vs 1 correct vig shot and a vet hit on town's side, for the mafia team to win. When you add in the 3p there are too many ways for the mafia to lose players outside of the lynch without being able to protect themselves and i think mafia medic would have been a good addition. I was also disappointed that the rolenames had such a small impact on the game. I didnt think too much on this during the course of the obsQT, but I agree in full. Even with the closed setup difficulty, and 5 mafia + 3P in a 25 player game, I think this was stacked in towns favour. Through a combination of good sniping and poor play, all the blues were eliminated first. | ||
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