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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
If we have any that is. GM was a delayed mason-vig, and there were no shots last night. What makes you think we have vigis at all? | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
Anyway, there's something I find odd, you agree that TS is scummy here for his switch from Wiggles to Ace. + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:06 zarepath wrote: I had a strong town read on DYH because of how he attacked me D1 with more effort than anybody else, but his D2 he was just flipping from town sentiment to town sentiment. He's usually one of the first on the wagon, but not THE first: This is what Mocsta was criticizing, about having a scum read on Wiggles and then immediately voting for whoever Wiggles builds a case on. This is what Mocsta was criticizing in a nutshell. Looks way scummimer than DYH's slip imo, because it adds so much less to the case. And personally I just hate his use of exclamation points, so there's that, too. But even after I pointed out that DYH and GK did the same, you don't say they're scummy for what TS did as well + Show Spoiler + On March 22 2013 01:24 zarepath wrote: GK I have ignored ever since BH's logs with him. They both seemed town and what they said in there was consistent with how they behaved in the thread. DYH I read as town early but when I look at all of his towniest moments they are all simply him adding on to other people's cases. He picked up the zarepath case, he picked up the VE case, he picked up the Ace case. I don't see a lot of unique reads from him and I will be paying better attention to him going forward. For some reason I thought DYH would mayor this game after D1, but he's kind of disappointed since. It doesn't help that we lynched another player who could easily have formed a mayor role. You abstained from giving a DYH read and said you will look forward. How does this change your read on him? | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
[QUOTE]On March 22 2013 02:35 DoYouHas wrote: @Vivax - You are right that I sheeped, but you are wrong about the instance. I sheeped the Wiggles wagon because at the time I saw it as the only alternative to the VE wagon that could actually have a chance of saving VE. When I switched to Ace it was because Mr. Wiggles case won me over. I thought the case was great and was framed in a view of the game that I agreed with. The Ace wagon had all the hallmarks of 'we are about to lynch scum' that I normally look for. People with strong opinions on other candidates were being won over gradually. There was surprising initial resistance. Ace did nothing to defend himself. I screwed up, but I'm not going to rewrite my thought process to make myself look better (like Moc). I thought that Ace was the right lynch, I was wrong. As for the rest of you, I spent most of day2 trying to figure out what was actually going on with VE. He was the central topic of the day and that is where I spent my time. One of the results of that was that when I eventually decided I thought VE was town, I was lacking in scum reads elsewhere. My biggest frustration this game is that apparently people view my contributions as crap, as helping the scum team. Even to the point of calling me the 6th scum member. Yet NONE of you choose to interact with me when I'm espousing what are now seen as clear You dropped Trancestorm completely during D2 after including him among your scumreads. There, you only suspect and vote VE and testsubject during the day. When trancestorm was in the thread you ignored it. You switch to Wiggles saying "he is the only viable option (no, VE was viable too)" You switch to Ace sheeping the only viable option when the scumreads by your posts seem to be VE and TestSubject. There is a reason you are like the 6th scum member, if you are town, cause you seem to play like scum. However trancestorm attacked you early during D1 and I'm currently doubting you as scum cause of that, it's a reason I can retract however since I've made the mistake often enough to trust into the assumption that scum doesn't early bus. After this skim through your filter I'm strongly reconsidering though. It's basically between TranceStorm and you now for the last spot in the scum team, and given that zare mentions TS as being scummy for the switch but not you and GK, I would probably put TS as least probable scum currently for the selectivity Zare displayed. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
Even now you don't. It's simply obvious your reads are not real and only adapted to the situations. Maybe TranceStorm is just the lynch-bait you saw at that moment to justify a switch from Zarepath to another guy later in the game and so you included him as second scumread. Why push for a TranceStorm lynch when the lynch options are between three vets who are more dangerous for scum though (in your theory)? And so you tried to get either of VE, Wiggles and ace lynched. + Show Spoiler + On March 19 2013 15:57 DoYouHas wrote: Pre-Day Reads Town BH and GK - I believe the claim as presented by BH. Scib - Person I have agreed with the most, constructive. Vivax - I haven't agreed with him much of the time, but the way he has behaved and pursued his reads looks very townie to me. DP - This one is harder to explain, it is more of a gut read. Likely Town VE - The last time I nailed VE to the wall as scum (when I was vig) the thing that pushed him over the top for me was how he seemed to distance himself from the thread conversation. His play thus far has been very involved and spotlight grabbing which is the opposite of that game, Paranoia mafia. I am not a big fan of how he has been jumping around to different lynch targets though. Hopeless - His posts were few and short, but I liked them. Ryu - He defended himself well and like a townie when I pressured him. Keep an eye on him and make sure he is contributing on multiple subjects. People I Found Myself Agreeing With, IE The Dangerous Ones (if they are scum) Mr. Wiggles - Seems to have some pretty good analysis, but I remain cautious of him. layabout - Was one of my strongest townreads early on, and could probably fit very comfortably in my 'Likely Town' category. His lack of any lengthy analysis during day one is why I put him here. kitaman27 - Similar to layabout, I have liked a lot of what he has to say, but I feel like he has held himself separate from the conversation, which bothers me. Scummy People zarepath TranceStorm - Dude might just be lynch bait, but I really don't like his play. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
On March 22 2013 03:19 kitaman27 wrote: Do we even know if the mafia team has a roleblocker? I don't remember anyone claiming it on day one. In some setups only people with roles get notified about a RB. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
On March 17 2013 12:33 zarepath wrote: I haven't hopped on the GK or TPS bandwagons because I'm not convinced of them entirely. I've never played in a game this large and there are a LOT of people who have posted almost literally nothing, and several people whose small contributions have been less substantial than either of these two players (DarthPunk, Trancestorm, sandroba, Coagulation). I hear what people are saying about them, but I hadn't taken into account the point that TPS is obviously a proxy, and that muddles the waters a bit. It's not like there's an enormous wagon on GK right now -- half the thread has hardly posted and there's what, two or three people talking about him? I can see why; it's not like it's bad to talk about him, but I just don't have anything to add. I also thought it was quite scummy for him to basically give his Pro Town resume of all the wonderfully pro town things he's done (which under scrutiny he hasn't done), and I can understand that looking pretty bad. But I know what it's like to think you have a solid pro-town filter as town and apparently it wasn't as solid and obvious as you assumed. But he's also promised he has a case coming, and I can understand the desire to wait until you feel confident about a case to really push it. I'm inclined to see what he comes up with and re-evaluate my read from there. On March 19 2013 09:28 goodkarma wrote: Okay I'm back in thread now. I'm slowly going through other people's filters. But the first one I'd like to bring up is Zarepath, since it seems Vivax is eager to see what I have to say about him. First off, before anything else, I would like to say (and I believe others have said it too) to Vivax that an association based case on multiple unflipped players is flat-out bad. Putting that aside though, Zarepath is a player I put in the category of newer, less experienced player. When such a player is town he tends to be easier to mislynch, as he has not adopted his own solid playstyle yet. Looking into Zarepath's filter, he's been quite lazy about sharing his reads. His excuses have been "I'm new to this format," and "I'll be far more active during the week." Well, he should have at least gotten orientated to the format by now, and it is now a weekday. As such, I expect to see an explosion of activity from him. I believe the concerns about him are valid, and that he indeed is acting very scummy. It's also worth noting he does seem to be much more involved in his past town games, and as such I'd say I'm leaning scum on him. Certainly, he needs to be sharing his reads much better than he is right now so we can get better insight into his thought process. They prefer to mention both town and scum points about each other rather than sticking to a read and explaining that one with one category of points. And they say that they wait for the other to step up his play to re-evaluate. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
If you have an inconclusive read on a player and wait for him to post more, then you simply ignore him and keep pushing your scumread. What I see in the mentioned posts is scum stepping out to mention a few points to their mate's defense, but at the same time trying to not appear like they are defending them by mentioning scummy traits in the same posts, and leaving with no conclusion arguing that you wait for them to step up their play. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
Your objectives are: Defend him. Position yourself in a way that you look good if you do or don't lynch him later. Don't look like you are defending him. Justify that you don't push him for being scummy. So you start writing why you won't push for his lynch at this point, yet are afraid to defend him and try to agree with the ones finding him scummy. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
Who will you lynch first tomorrow? + Show Spoiler + On March 21 2013 03:27 cosmicomics wrote: I don't see why there is so much hesitation to move votes over to VisceraEyes. He didn't do anything to address my case, or take the opportunity to follow up a question concerning his #1 scum read Wade Fell Everyone in thread dismissed the VisceraEyes / Wade Fell business on the basis that the night actions would resolve the mess. What has VisceraEyes done with his time since the pressure eased off him? Why isn't he doing anything to push Wade Fell?? Wasn't he his #1 scum read? Even now, as we try to untangle this "3P mess", we see him say Not Wade Fell is scum. "Wade is ridiculous", implying that Wade Fell is town and being ridiculous. Why isn't he pushing Wade Fell as scum if he was his #1 scum read, and is now fabricating ridiculous things to push him? The most simplest explanation to this whole ordeal is that VisceraEyes is scum, jumping around from target to target to see who will latch without meaningful contribution, made up the 3P business up to sidetrack the town even more, especially since we are deep into D2 without too much consolidation after WaveofShadow claimed. VisceraEyes is scum and making crap up | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
We had a vig-mason. Town-aligned. There is a converting mason. Third party. There is Wade the mason . _____ But that would not be the only reason I support his lynch. The other reason are his reads. I never got the feeling he's pushing town agenda, all of his reads so far have been on people I wouldn't lynch, and he defends those who are scummy. It's true that VE was opportunistic D2 so we can't exclude he is 3p but scum has to fall first. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
On March 22 2013 06:57 cosmicomics wrote: Depends on the night results. His behavior and actions aside, VisceraEyes' vet claim is very strong indicator that he isn't scum if it is true. The key phrase is "if it is true". Because this game has a closed setup, we do not know the nature of scum KP. There is no reason to suppose that it should go by standard precedent (in which I suspect 3 initial KP for scum), and with the flip of a role like Nightmare, I don't find it a stretch to think scum were compensated with other forms of KP. Therefore if the night actions suggest that VisceraEyes' claim is indeed valid, then I swallow my pride because it is more likely that VisceraEyes is playing funky than it is for scum to sacrifice one of their KP to fakeclaim vet, and we get down to lynching goodkarma and unfolding things from there. If not, it's tunnel city because there is nothing aside from his claim that I see as reasonable body of evidence that he is town. How should the night actions indicate something about his alignment at all? If he's scum he won't get shot, if he's town he won't get shot cause so many want him lynched, and if he's 3p he's supposedly bulletproof. I don't see scum placing a bet on that. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
Anyway I'll probably not stay around for much longer so I'll drop in my list of most probable scum. I am assuming that scum this time had the chance to spread their votes cause GK wasn't at real risk of getting lynched and Wiggles, VE and Ace are all town/3p imo. + Show Spoiler + Final vote count: VOTE COUNT! Day 2 ThePeashooter (0): goodkarma (3): Wade Fell (0): Mr. Wiggles (3): zarepath (0): WaveofShadow (0): VisceraEyes (6): cosmicomics , cosmicomics (0): TestSubject893 (0): Mocsta (1): glurio Coagulation (0): Vivax (1): Kenpachi Ace (8): Mr. Wiggles, goodkarma , DoYouHas , VisceraEyes, TranceStorm , geript, ThePeashooter, Mocsta, DarthPunk Voting is compulsory Please label who you are unvoting, it makes it easier for me. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
In all courtesy, I hope someone takes care of you tonight. | ||
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Vivax
21955 Posts
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Vivax
21955 Posts
I will actually take a look at Wiggles again just to make sure, but I've been fairly confident he's town so far. I'm also starting to doubt my scum read on cosmicomics although I find him mentioning scum KP kinda scummy. Still think Wade is scum cause I don't think town has 2 masons and scum 0 + I feel he is pushing agenda. | ||
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