The Game [N] - Page 6

On March 18 2013 01:21 Vivax wrote:
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Sandroba

I wrote about him here

cosmicomics

Let's put ourselves into the shoes of a townie who didn't post anything yet at a later point in D1. You don't know who's innocent, you don't know who's guilty, so you will usually say "I find this dude suspicious cause of x and I agree with y cause of bsbsbsbsbs" after having a read of everything, maybe throw in a few questions to see who agrees with you on something or why someone did a certain thing.

I can't remember the last time I popped into the thread asking a question about a dude I don't know the alignment of, and nitpicking while doing so.



Look at the question in question. It's not constructed to get a reasonable answer for the purposes of this game. It's constructed in a way that I have to answer with a version of town sandro I have in my head. Maybe town sandro does x and y and z, shortly, it's constructed in a way that it may lead me to say tons of stupid things if I answered it.

Thanks to another player I value for his support, he answered this question for me by providing a town sandro filter.

But that's not the worst about this question. As I said, I consider this to be nitpicking. I wrote



And this dude picks a cherry and ignores everything I actually said about why sandro doesn't look like town without commenting on the points I made. He doesn't give his own opinion of sandro and doesn't agree on at least a bit of it, cause he should. What I said is true.

In the next post, he twists my words:



Again, sandro's reads did differ from mine. But cosmicomics cherrypicks again, since not only was my point that sandro's reads were strange cause they differed from mine, but they were strange cause he gave them without reasoning and they didn't seem to make sense to me. And I said it in the post.

Then he proceeds to defend sandroba based on some unique scumhunting style. I saw sandro being wrong and right often enough to not give him an air of legend allowing him to give reads without explanation and fucking off.
Cosmicomics seems to be idealizing a guy he shouldn't have a read on this early in the game.

After this he makes a quick minicase regarding an inconsistency, with no conclusion as to why DarthPunk is scum, drops his vote and doesn't inquire anything further regarding DP.



This is the guy I want to lynch the most today.
It looks a lot like he's posting with an agenda.

##Unvote
##Vote cosmicomics

On March 19 2013 01:09 Vivax wrote:
I'd like to analyse the votes and the related posts with a few presumptions:

• Scum doesn't need to change to a mislynch if the majority on the wagon are already townies. Especially if scum was previously bussing it's convenient for them to stay on the old one unless their vote makes the difference.
  Scum does need to change to a mislynch if one of theirs is threatened by another majority.
  
  
• Greymist looked scummy (hence he was lynched). As such, I think people joining late aren't suspicious like people early or in between cause scum knows they would look better afterwards if they ended up on another wagon. It's still possible that a scum post got the wagon rolling in the first place. (I shouldn't have joined the wagon so quickly, on second thought)
  
  
• Can't be excluded that zarepath is scum and his buddies piled up onto Greymist just to make sure that the DP wagon can't get zare lynched.
  After rereading and considering the wagons and his posts I actually believe that zarepath is scum.
  
  
• As you see, I bolded those I find most interesting (Cause early/in between). Geript looks actually pretty good cause of his decision to not join the wagon. GK had a really early vote on GM, then on Sandro, then back to GK and looks suspicious, cosmicomics too, also for earlier reasons. I'll take a shot at analysing these two, would be nice if you looked at the other guys I bolded.
  
  

I think those who switched from DP to GM last are most worth a look: Zare and cosmic.

So first of all, let me start with my reasoning as to why I think that most if not all of scum is on the GM bandwagon.
To do so, we have to exclude that scum were on the other two wagons.

Let's start with DP (who I have as townread currently)
I think the DP wagon has two explanations: Either DP is scum and zare and cosmic set themselves up to bus him only to switch later. Or they thought that his wagon would gain steam and then saw that it didn't work, deciding to switch to GM (possibly to save zarepath).

To check which one applies, I'd have to see how Zare + cosmic vote for DP and then switch to GM. Do they push the lynches? Are they consistent with their reads? Are the reasons good?
That said, I'll leave it to them to justify it. After rereading Zarepath I'm confident he's scum anyway, as for cosmic, you should know my opinion on him since early.

I think the zarepath wagon was the right wagon to go, and am assuming all on that one were townies. Sciberbia hit like a swiss knife again.

So we are left with the GM wagon. Now let me point out the switches coupled with my former reasoning.

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ZAREPATH

The timing of this post
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was right after DP got his ass gunned by VE. So zarepath should have felt that a wagon was coming and set himself up for it, and, coupled with the inconsistency sciberbia pointed out where zare asked that question about DP's early vote being unlikely for scum this doesn't look good for zare who suddenly got a scumread on the guy who just defended himself quite effectively, in my opinion.

As always, zarepath seems to be in a hurry, so he drops a couple of reasons to vote for him. I disagree with some reasons he mentions but they're not the main point of this case.

Does he push the case? No he doesn't. What we also notice is the timing of his vote. He cast his vote on DP after Ryu's convincing case on Grey.

Time difference:





Then, when Grey had 8 votes on him already, he comes in with that "read" on him after asking him a question






Not only did Ryu post a pretty strong case against Grey, which was the main reason so many people switched to him, and Zare doesn't refer to it at all, but he even thought DP was a better choice when Ryu posted the case before Zare voted DP.

Does this look like a guy who's trying to figure the game out? Who pushes his lynches? Who explains his reads?
Frankly I don't know what the reason is for why he votes Greymist, but apparently this guy doesn't have any real scumreads, cause when called out by sciberbia for his inconsistency, he says this:



Did you see DP being stubborn about his scumreads although under heavy pressure? Or Greymist saying he wants GK lynched while going down? This is what townies behave (Yes I think DP is town). Scumreads over everything, real patriots of their hometown.

Zarepath instead gives weak reasoning for switching votes, and his reads look fake. He doesn't have the ambition of a townie to get the scum lynched, he says Greymist is scummy but at the same time says he wants to vote for him to save his own hide. If you think the first you don't argue with the latter.

Verdict 1: Zarepath is scum.

Let's go back to the defence post: This dude defended both TPS and GK, who all have done scummy things according to most of this town, yet this guy disagrees with a lynch on them, says he has nothing to add, then lists things he finds scummy about them. Instinctive: We assume they are his scumbuddies, so we dig a little there, too, and we also see they were early on the GM wagon, like predicted at the start of this post. I'm right in between them (curse me). Scumlarm rings.

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COSMICOMICS


Most of the stuff I found suspicious about Cosmic still applies. So I'll just stick to the newer stuff especially related to the GM bandwagon, my old one is here

So first, let's bring up what he does exactly like zarepath, he tries to get the DP bandwagon rolling, and later switches to Grey even though he voted DP after Ryu's case. (His first post regarding DP included a vote here but not in the voting thread, so he did vote after Ryu's case effectively).











As we see, cosmicomics reasons for voting DP were his pressure vote on geript and how it was a lie cause he stopped the RNG stuff. I think this is a terrible point to bring against someone being mafia and only represents cosmicomics trying to use something that looks like an inconsistency to jump on and push the DP wagon. Early game pressure votes when people talk about the hipsteRNG are perfectly fine in my opinion and I had my vote on kita for a long time even after he delurked right after it, that's inconsistent too but it doesn't make me scum.

I mainly want to show the mafia agenda behind the switch from DP to Grey, cause I think mafia tried to save zarepath's ass with the switch from DP to Grey later.




Here we see something that only reinforces my connection case: Zarepath defended TPS and GK. Cosmicomics defends Zarepath and GK and shows really weird behaviour.
He thinks I'm showing genuine efforts by directing the attention towards him. I don't know about you but when I'm town I don't like people calling me scum and forcing me to defend myself. But well, what matters is his defense of these two guys.

Then cosmic asks DP these two questions:



Upon which DP reacts with this:







Judge these reasons to favour Greymist by yourself. I think cosmicomics is scummy since early, so just go read my case

GOODKARMA

Then obviously, there's GK and TPS. I think these two dudes are scum, too if I just look at how Zare and cosmic handled them. I currently don't know who the fifth scum might be, but I kinda ruled out Ryu for this question from GK



I'll post more later and possibly figure out the fifth one, writing this post was pretty tiring and took me ages :3

On March 19 2013 08:47 Vivax wrote:
Anyway I've decided that I'm pissed off by how scum responded to my case unpunished by fellow townies so I've decided to awake the sleeping half-drunk dragon in me and finish them off with some more bombastic reads from good old crazy Vivax.

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I'll start with those with small filters and probably be a little more vague on TPS cause he seems to be the more active sort of scum but it looks like the kind who tends to slip so you will catch him sooner or later.

So first, part 1 to the scumwnage: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=402057&currentpage=37#728

GOODKARMA YO
(This will be easy)

Ok, part 1 of this post he replies to this regarding grey:

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As we see GK rides an attack against Coag along with Glurio - click for link (soft one Look at dem TPS and Zarepath reads) and TPS at the time (surprise suprise)

His own points against Coag are that he doesn't post scumreads and it's unclear as to why he refers to Coag as policy lynch. It seems like good town atmosphere for GK is to discuss policy lynches he defines himself as such cause a guy didn't post his scumreads, but let's look at the next post.

Next he comments a little on Grey, posts very little..seems detached.Well ok nothing we can say against that it's the next part where it gets juicy.
Wiggles calls him out for it (rightfully) and says he pressures Coag for not posting scumreads but GK didn't provide anything himself, and calls Coag scummy for not giving reads, refuses to give reads himself and referred to Coag as policy lynch, so judge for yourself.

Then, there's this question to Ryu which seems unlikely as scum to scum question so it was one of the reasons I dismissed Ryu for now, I already mentioned this in my previous case post (hi stutters).



ALRIGHT, next interesting post.
We see GK sets himself up for the common bandwagons in this post when the time seems ripe. He also soft defends TPS like most of the other guys I mentioned. Oh, you.

Why is it suspicious? Most people were kinda sold on their own targets and consolidated later for lack of a common agreement, on Greymist after Ryu's post. They did so after pushing for their own lynch and asking their targets questions. GK however seems to be switching from target to target, but with very low pressure or pushing between them.

He said Coag is scummy, he didn't post a case nor ask questions.
He said GM was detached etc. etc., no case and no questions.
He said Wiggles was scummy and that it's not OMGUS, no ____ and no ______
Now he's back to GM!Surprise! He also seems fine with DP. What a coincidence zarepath and cosmicomics too!

Need I say more?

+ Show Spoiler +




It ends with these two in quick succession (no questions or anything between them, common pattern) and I'm not commenting on more actually. My fingers itch and are tired from my big cases today, I need to go for glurio now. Use your own judgement, I only provide the right lenses.




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GLURIO JA

Well basically the post I linked is a strong point imo but I'm also least sure about this guy cause his filter is small, he defended many people who I think are townies (me included) although he did give my top scumreads slack. He sheeped on the DP wagon and left, just now popped in and asked me a question with its answer in my filter without answering mine and disappeared. So I feel like he could be a decent fifth scum but first of all:

1.Lynch Zarepath
2. Lynch Cosmicomics
3. Lynch GK
4. Lynch TPS
5. (lynch glurio)

Reevaluate after their flips, there's a lot of time. It doesn't look like there's vets among them and I don't know how DrH balances his setups but in case of doubt assume he randomed.

These guys all are unwilling to give out reads on each other and some of them started to attack zarepath only after I posted my huge case (and after asking veeery unrelated questions and disappearing, just TPS and zare stayed around acting pretty weird), see it and believe it.

Alright, I hope I'll be around tomorrow and not dead. If I die, you can imagine why (hint: Not WIFOM)
<3 town

On March 21 2013 09:15 Vivax wrote:
As pointed out with the Bureaucreacy slip in the qt, The Mirror is probably layabout. This also is displayed by his lack of involvement in the game and certain anti-town traits I noticed.

I am still confident zarepath, GK and cosmicomics are scum. However, as I see it as of now there are the 2 wildcards I mentioned earlier:
Given Trancestorm's latest entrance and a look at his filter I feel he is a good candidate for one of the spots, in the other spot I see fitting either Coag, WF or kita. Coag obviously the guy I'm least sure about.

Fairly confident in saying that scum is pushing the Wiggles wagon currently, and VE is grasping at the most likely lynch according to common opinions to save his own hide right now.

On March 21 2013 16:05 Oatsmaster wrote:
Final vote count:
VOTE COUNT! Day 2

ThePeashooter (0): Wade Fell, TranceStorm, Vivax

goodkarma (3): Kenpachi, DarthPunk, Mocsta, Vivax, Mocsta, sciberbia, WaveofShadow

Wade Fell (0): Vivax, geript, VisceraEyes, layabout

Mr. Wiggles (3): zarepath, goodkarma, VisceraEyes, WaveofShadow, Coagulation, TranceStorm, zarepath, DoYouHas, kitaman27

zarepath (0): Vivax

WaveofShadow (0): glurio, kitaman27, ThePeashooter, DarthPunk, zarepath, Mocsta , Mr. Wiggles, Mocsta, TranceStorm, sciberbia, DarthPunk, Vivax, geript

VisceraEyes (6): cosmicomics, DoYouHas, Ace, DarthPunk, Wade Fell, layabout, WaveofShadow, Mocsta, geript, RyuSuzaku, Vivax, DoYouHas, TestSubject893, kitaman27, Vivax, Wade Fell

cosmicomics (0): Vivax

TestSubject893 (0): DoYouHas, Mocsta, Wade Fell

Mocsta (1): glurio

Coagulation (0): Vivax

Vivax (1): Kenpachi

Ace (8): Mr. Wiggles, goodkarma, DoYouHas, VisceraEyes, TranceStorm, geript, ThePeashooter, Mocsta, DarthPunk


Voting is compulsory
Please label who you are unvoting, it makes it easier for me.

On March 19 2013 23:34 zarepath wrote:
Here's how I see things:

TOWN
Vivax - Too much effort into too awful a case. Puts way too much attention onto himself.
DarthPunk - Too confident to not be town, and when under pressure was still confident. Pretty clean and open with what he thinks about whom.
geript - One of few players who think I’m scum who have actually looked at my filters of previous games, ie, done work for their read.
Glurio - Checks metas, bothered to defend me when thread sentiment was against me, unique and genuine look at WoS beginning of Night 1. Not a lot of content yet but all his content seems pretty pro-town.
DoYouHas - Of all the people going after me, he is the only one to pull up my meta and look at each of the filters for evidence. He’s been the one willing to do the most work for a zarepath lynch when it could be very easy to just bandwagon onto it.
Coagulation - Doesn't contribute a lot, but his thought process is clearly pro-town
sciberbia - Consistent with his reads, willing to look at and filter-dive on other cases, is thinking forward-motion

NULL

kenpachi - I don’t see him being really productive in general, just reacts to The Thread and not actively going after particular reads.
WoS - opening post seemed pretty scummy, but spent effort at least discussing the popular reads, going into my meta, etc. Potential scum slip puts him back in null territory to me
Wade Fell (BH) - I had a scum read on him until I read his other QTs, which showed consistency with his thread decisions that I had questioned. I think it’s safe to let him continue masoning -- if he’s scum, he’ll be in trouble trying to keep it up now that he has to answer for each person he masons, and if town, well, it can’t hurt. I thought it was odd that he picked me, one of the townies with the least amount of town cred, to help him lynch his top scum read. But oh well.

Hopeless1der - He read me as scum real quick, didn’t push it at all, came back to agree with others who picked up what he dropped off, and spent the rest of Day 1 criticizing other people’s reads and arguments. I thought that was a scum tell, but I can see how that’s null on a second look and after others have criticized my case.
What I am wondering now has more to do with Ace, namely: why hasn’t he shot last night? And why wasn’t he concerned about being shot last night? There was no night post for him with a list of reads. Mocsta and Keirathi have been talking about people, but Ace is talking more about arguments. I am still suspicious of Hopeless/Ace but I am not as certain of their scumminess; I want to see what Ace contributes when he is actually in the swing of things.

cosmicomics - votes for DP only after layabout literally asks him what he thinks about him. First time he mentions him, and then votes for him. But his other reads are only to say he doesn’t think people are scum, and his switch onto GM seems somewhat out-of-the-blue. Low contributor and I need to see more.

goodkarma - I disliked how he began the game, but he hasn’t really shied from the limelight. BH is a lot more confident about him than I am, but his general activity is enough to keep him from being as strong a scum read as my actual scum reads.
VisceraEyes - His tone has seemed fairly off, but he has poked and prodded in the right directions within his big filter. I don’t have a solid read on him yet but no reason to think he’s scum. Vet claim possibly legit, but I’ma wait until N2 results to solidify this read.
sandroba - Was so certain of his first town reads, which seemed impossible. Mocsta is being annoying, and the last time he was annoying like this in a game with me he was scum. I am very curious as to his reads and how he pushes them today.

RyuSuzaku - First post was a sketchy association case that didn’t seem to have much heart, just lots of suspicion; and wanted GM dead. Everything post GM’s lynch was him justifying his vote for him, no forward motion -- except for his final post, where he says VE and Test are his new suspects, both of which were fairly new/unique reads. I will wait to see how he pushes those reads and reacts to other cases today.

TPS - I’m not convinced of BH's argument against him. TPS seems assertive and active, but he doesn't scream town to me, either.

NULL-SCUM
TestSubject - Said very little, and only about people everyone else was already talking about.
layabout - Was all about DP and WoS, mostly DP, but in the end switched from DP to me without having ever said anything about me all game. Then later, this:

This is a softball toss for somebody else to be like “U R RIGHT HE IS SCUM.”

SCUM
TranceStorm

That was his justification. He also built no real case on DoYouHas despite going after him, possibly the most pro-town-looking player.
Mr. Wiggles
Seems deathly afraid of posting reads. His only contributions have been to disagree with other people’s scum reads or arguments. A very scummy and “helpful” “Will you two cut it out? It’s just a game” in his latest post. His GM vote came from being ASKED about him, but his justifrication is filled with “per my earlier post” and “as I stated earlier,” as if he is more concerned with looking like he’s always been for a GM lynch than he is actually justifying the GM lynch.

He said he didn’t want to post reads but I see no reason why not?