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On March 18 2013 16:09 Wade Fell wrote:
:| at least with his dying hours he could have written some cases or given something to work off of. All he's left us with is:
an entirely wrongheaded attack on GK, and unexplained scumreads on WoS and Testsubject.
He's right on testsubject but never goes into detail. As a final token to Greymist I will take an analytical look at WoS before the end of the night though, and as usual you will have my general thoughts and cases before dawn.
Couple things, BH.
This was promised and we never got it, and we haven't heard anything regarding your top scumreads, TPS/Testsubject in a while. Are we going to receive any of this before deadline in case you are night target?
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Goodie. 
I'm always interested to hear what people think about me and I'm particularly interested in TPS.
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He didn't post.
I liked Kei in hydra.
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On March 19 2013 14:28 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 14:26 Mocsta wrote:On March 19 2013 14:24 Wade Fell wrote:On March 19 2013 14:23 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 14:22 Wade Fell wrote:On March 19 2013 14:22 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 14:21 Wade Fell wrote:On March 19 2013 14:20 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 14:19 Mocsta wrote:
Keirathi, you reminding me a lot of u in hydra
All
The guy Kei replaced.. was he a town, null or scum read? The guy I replaced had 0 posts. lol I know, right? I actually had a HYOOOJ townread on the guy you replaced Scum. omg dood i told u not 2 bus me yet Im just gonna put it out there.. im finding this interaction odd.. im not saying its scummy... theres just something peculiar about it, feels forced *Insert "I don't always call someone scum, but when I do, I don't" image macro*
LOL.
I like when mafia makes me laugh and not angry.
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BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now).
If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him.
Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think.
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On March 19 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:11 goodkarma wrote:On March 19 2013 14:59 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 14:55 goodkarma wrote:
Hi all. I'm back for a little bit.
First, yes I was in BH's QT for day one. His motive was he wanted to get a chance to talk to me, and since he felt I had a decent chance of getting mislynched he chose me for day one. If you were to ask me that's a pretty fucking townie motive. You can't exactly manipulate the dead...
Granted, the actual QT was only put up for the last few hours of the day. It extended from shortly before his voteswitch to GM onward. His thought process he used in describing his reads is the same thought process he's taught me to use as a town player. The one thing that's stuck out to me though, and the largest reason I'd say I have a strong townread on him, is his rather avid defense of me for most of the game. This is a guy that's bent over backwards to do whatever he could to prevent my mislynch. As scum, there would simply be no motive for this.
As far as his cases go that he's posted in forum, I would agree with VE's assessment that they could be better. But we DID need to consolidate our votes, so his voteswitch to GM (and lack of pursuit of his top scumreads thereafter who clearly weren't going to get lynched) does make sense to me.
I'd give him day 2 to improve his scumhunting. I am confident that he will prove to all of you that he is town. You are wrong. I can demonstrably show a scum BH hard defending "town reads" when it benefits him. So my question then is this: in what way would it be beneficial for scum BH to hard defend me day one like he did? I just don't see it... Are you blind? The benefit is that you're in here right now making this argument for him :o Plus, its still possible that you are scum together, in which case the benefit is much more obvious.
That would be devious as fuck, and seems really unlikely.
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On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now).
If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him.
Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think. That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read.
Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too.
I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table.
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On March 19 2013 15:19 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:14 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 19 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 15:11 goodkarma wrote:On March 19 2013 14:59 Keirathi wrote:On March 19 2013 14:55 goodkarma wrote:
Hi all. I'm back for a little bit.
First, yes I was in BH's QT for day one. His motive was he wanted to get a chance to talk to me, and since he felt I had a decent chance of getting mislynched he chose me for day one. If you were to ask me that's a pretty fucking townie motive. You can't exactly manipulate the dead...
Granted, the actual QT was only put up for the last few hours of the day. It extended from shortly before his voteswitch to GM onward. His thought process he used in describing his reads is the same thought process he's taught me to use as a town player. The one thing that's stuck out to me though, and the largest reason I'd say I have a strong townread on him, is his rather avid defense of me for most of the game. This is a guy that's bent over backwards to do whatever he could to prevent my mislynch. As scum, there would simply be no motive for this.
As far as his cases go that he's posted in forum, I would agree with VE's assessment that they could be better. But we DID need to consolidate our votes, so his voteswitch to GM (and lack of pursuit of his top scumreads thereafter who clearly weren't going to get lynched) does make sense to me.
I'd give him day 2 to improve his scumhunting. I am confident that he will prove to all of you that he is town. You are wrong. I can demonstrably show a scum BH hard defending "town reads" when it benefits him. So my question then is this: in what way would it be beneficial for scum BH to hard defend me day one like he did? I just don't see it... Are you blind? The benefit is that you're in here right now making this argument for him :o Plus, its still possible that you are scum together, in which case the benefit is much more obvious. That would be devious as fuck, and seems really unlikely. How is it devious? Scum players defend town players all the time. Why do they do it? Because they can get "town cred" for it because they know that they are right. Hell, just look at this filter: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=387591&user=133498¤tpage=AllThat's BH's scum filter from Parallel. You can see how much time he spends defending his town reads.
I meant it would be devious as fuck if they were both scum, and made up the QT logs.
Incredibly unlikely.
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On March 19 2013 15:31 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:27 Keirathi wrote:
@sciberbia:
I'm not interested in lynching zare right now. For one, I don't know his meta and I don't have time to read it tonight. But for two, he's mostly reading as newbie town to me. I completely disagree with his case on Hopeless, but that's because I am very familiar with Hopeless' play. But otherwise, he brought up some solid points on Hopeless and Wiggles. He seems to be trying to figure things out like a newbie town would.
My biggest problem with his play, actually, is him playing the newbie card. But that's not enough that I'm interested in him for now. He's fine to leave alive a bit longer and see how things progress. U liked his first post? As a funny tidbit: zarepath done some weird shit as newbie town. Last game i played with him, he wrote a fake case on someone he had a town read on.. to gauge reactions.. the fake case was so good. the target (WaveofShadow IIRC pertty much gave up LOL)
Haha yeah it was my first game and I no idea how to react. The funny thing is his case was actually pretty good. Overall though the fake case accomplished nothing.
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On March 19 2013 15:30 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote:On March 19 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now).
If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him.
Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think. That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read. Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too. I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table. Actually for me the tell was how he went about discussing Geript.. Maybe i have been conned, but I read genuine consideration being given.. My take was that BH is instinctively driven to lynch a player like Geript (too much deviation in play styles). As scum he could EASILY push that lynch on that validation. Instead, he is actively querying other peoples thoughts to see if its just him being tunneled, or there is something there. Now yes, scum coudl be fishing on a push.. but lets be serious.. Geript is lynchbait, you dotn need to go to that effort to validate the push. I am reading this as a town guy trying to actively put consideration into his targets. As I said before.. the Log format is a fuckn bitch to read.. so I would like to read it one more time (will prob copy/paste the logs into word or soemthing.. just to confirm im not missing some funny business.. but I think that he handled Geript the same to both VE and GK gives consistency to the tell. (He didnt know he was gonna post the mason log either remember!) Thoughts WoS?
You call Geript lynchbait...has he actually been as such this game?
Looking into his filter his read on zare is more or less what I came up with on him, and he does a decent job attempting to press his reads. Sure he gets trolly later on with BH but if you look at his play in the most recent NMM he has discovered his balls, apparently.
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On March 19 2013 15:37 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: And, he stands up to VE's SAST. How many newbie scum go out of their way to stand up to vets?
I did the same thing.....
On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power?
And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game:
BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds.
Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX.
I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out.
Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused.
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On March 19 2013 15:40 Keirathi wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:39 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 19 2013 15:37 Keirathi wrote:
EBWOP: And, he stands up to VE's SAST. How many newbie scum go out of their way to stand up to vets? I did the same thing..... On March 17 2013 02:41 WaveofShadow wrote:
I'm not familiar to heavily themed games but what makes me wonder here about the setup is the sheer number of roles. 17 to be exact. Are these all going to be roles with power?
And now off the topic of setup speculation a few things I noticed from the very beginning of the game:
BH playing exactly like I've seen him before, mega aggressive. It works fine for him, he hunts scum and succeeds.
Can't decide whether I like Geript's 'new troll-y' style of playing or not, but ultimately (as many have pointed out) it's probably better than the way he ended in LX.
I don't have any scumreads as of yet (especially since half the thread is yet to post) but I'll be keeping my eye out.
Oh yeah one more thing: VE that SAST idea is retarded in my eyes, but makes me wonder about some sort of extra/3rd party wincon. Something like,' get a bunch of people to join your 3rd party group and successfully get 3-5 people mislynched' or some shit. I can't think of ANY other reason why you'd try to be serious about something that ridiculous. If you're serious about hunting scum, it's probably better you focus on that since you can be a huge asset to town when you're focused. So, you're saying you're scum, so my argument is invalid? Okay then.
No, I'm saying that argument is meaningless either way. Zare is not afraid to 'stand up' to anyone, nor should he be, scum or town. I think it;s null.
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On March 19 2013 15:40 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:37 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 19 2013 15:30 Mocsta wrote:On March 19 2013 15:20 WaveofShadow wrote:On March 19 2013 15:16 Mocsta wrote:On March 19 2013 15:10 WaveofShadow wrote:
BH you have an unhealthy obsession with Geript imo. And I was pissed at him last game but I've since played in another NMM with him and he's perfectly capable of decent play; I think he may have learned from LX and doesn't seem likely to repeat it (though he's certainly trollier now).
If you survive the night, make a case on Geript and I'll listen to it if it's actually based on decent reads and not an emotional response to him.
Still waiting on the other stuff you promised too, daypost is coming up real soon I think. That actually gave me townie points on BH... im surprised we treating this "tell' so differently Will have to re-read the logs, they REALLY hard to read. Yeh gotta read from bottom to top and then the dates/signatures are hard too. I'm not saying that his obsession with geript is scummy per se, but I have an overall null read on Geript so if there's something I'm missing to make him look scummier I'd be interested to see if BH can bring something purely objective to the table. Actually for me the tell was how he went about discussing Geript.. Maybe i have been conned, but I read genuine consideration being given.. My take was that BH is instinctively driven to lynch a player like Geript (too much deviation in play styles). As scum he could EASILY push that lynch on that validation. Instead, he is actively querying other peoples thoughts to see if its just him being tunneled, or there is something there. Now yes, scum coudl be fishing on a push.. but lets be serious.. Geript is lynchbait, you dotn need to go to that effort to validate the push. I am reading this as a town guy trying to actively put consideration into his targets. As I said before.. the Log format is a fuckn bitch to read.. so I would like to read it one more time (will prob copy/paste the logs into word or soemthing.. just to confirm im not missing some funny business.. but I think that he handled Geript the same to both VE and GK gives consistency to the tell. (He didnt know he was gonna post the mason log either remember!) Thoughts WoS? You call Geript lynchbait...has he actually been as such this game? Looking into his filter his read on zare is more or less what I came up with on him, and he does a decent job attempting to press his reads. Sure he gets trolly later on with BH but if you look at his play in the most recent NMM he has discovered his balls, apparently. I havnt read anything of Geript other than his RNG push, so perhaps im talking out of turn.. But i stand by him being lynch bait.. he gets emotionally flustered too quickly. Geript admits freely he has been voted Least Valuable Town numerous times.. so yeah. I dunno what to expect from a scum Geript; but based on my heuristic of a lynchbait Geript.. I think BH reasoning is town aligned. U didnt actually comment on your thought; other than geript isnt lynchbait? Do you think his logs feel forced in general?
I don't think the RNG push means anything, it's just him putting on his troll shoes imo. You make a good point though that every game I've played in with Geript he has been town so I wouldn't know meta-wise what to expect from Geript. I guess I've been unconsciously assuming he's town since his play fits the past 3 games.
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You want a solid read spelled out for you? Fine. I don't think Geript is scum. I have null-leaning town.
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Keir you make a good point, but then if anything that points to zarepath being scummy rather than someone you don't want to focus on D2....
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I see definite differences in his play that I noted; just because he stands up to one person disagreeing with the town circle idea is not enough.
His regular town play he is much more methodical, he pushes his reads constantly and as Mocsta noted, isn't afraid of trying crazy shit if he thinks it might benefit the town.
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I just don't think that you can write him off as a 'newbie' because he was one of the strongest players in the game I had with him, and has since played in another.
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On March 19 2013 15:56 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On March 19 2013 15:51 WaveofShadow wrote:
You want a solid read spelled out for you? Fine. I don't think Geript is scum. I have null-leaning town.
Thats the thing. I was never talking about Geript? I was talking about BH logs, and the impact on my read on BH... how is this not clear?
Because you were talking about the logs and Geript a lot in the same post. Sorry it wasn't clear to me.
If I had to say one way the other I'd lean town on BH. The differences people have been coming up with in the thread don't seem that big to me, and I'm certainly not 100% of VE's scumclaim against him.
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On March 19 2013 16:01 sciberbia wrote:
alright i feel compelled to make a deadline post in case I am shot. But I don't think that's especially likely.
I did one readthrough of everyone's filter during night-phase. Here are the people I felt best about being town:
vivax, DP, DYH
And here are people I think have a decent chance of being scum:
geript
WoS
BH
glurio
zarapeth
trancestorm
cosmicomics
Meh not sure I should even post this. Well if I die, at least look into the filters I listed for possible scum.
Aside from BH, I see a common theme in your scum list, that is, players who either have barely contributed or could be seen as newbies.
I don't like it, and not just because I'm included.
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Damn it, Keir was going to be really useful this game. 
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EPT
