Hydra Mini Mafia

On March 13 2013 10:08 DrParnassus wrote:
it's not that you're explicitly calling either of them (marv/OO) town, it's that you don't appear at all concerned about their alignment. your main concern as far as those 2 players go is to include them in an argument about why the guy voting for you is wrong, and therefore scum.

so what do you think about them? scum or no?

On March 13 2013 10:20 DrParnassus wrote:


lolwut you don't have opinions about their alignment because it's early game, and you're busy? yet you have a super-srs opinion about the guy who voted for you on page 1?

what is the distinction between what either of them have done and what I've done that makes me scum and them 100% null? you've just claimed that you cba to give any fucks about figuring out alignments at such an early phase in the game yet somehow you've got a strong scum read on me, it doesn't add up

On March 13 2013 09:48 Moology wrote:
#Vote: DrParnassus

For jumping onboard a stupid train, for no reasons.
(Moc)

On March 13 2013 10:32 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Ooh! Moology coming out with some harsh words for DrParnassus, threatening to quit talking with him altogether. Has discourse between two possible townies broken down this early?

Someone should make a note to Mocsta that having two separate browsers open (chrome and firefox) allows you to avoid logging in and out! He's getting quite frustrated at such an early stage, Wave!

On March 13 2013 12:37 DrParnassus wrote:
mocsta my reasons for thinking you're scum came after my vote, not before. the vote itself was fairly meaningless at the time. don't act like you've never seen silly or unexplained page 1 votes before. your response to the vote and the way you choose to argue with me is what i'm interested in

On March 13 2013 22:39 FiveTouch wrote:
on the other hand, this game is a good warning never to listen to any of their casts. Their style is atrocious.

On March 14 2013 04:02 WaveofShadow wrote:
Well Soniv it's coming down to the halfway point of Day 1 and what have we got to show for it?

Honestly it doesn't seem much, Wave. The town has seemingly decided between voting for who annoys them the most; either us for 'casting style' and perceived inactivity and lack of giving them the precise analyses they want, or Dirk Hardpec for doing...well...nothing! I don't know about you, Wave, but this doesn't seem like a town who is keen to scumhunt to me, rather they're quick to jump on easy sheep targets for simple reasons.

Let 'em think what they want, Soniv. They'll come around eventually, I have faith in them. A few recent developments for those still catching up, DrParnassus is an angry guy, Promato's disappearance looking fishy, and ObliviousEyes coming to our defense somewhat.

Oh, but those aren't READS, Wave. We might make someone angry!

Too true. In that case, having a look at NewbieXXXI_Obs Cutie, despite the fact that he has aggressively been pushing for our lynch, actually looks pretty good right now. Gives analysis on major occurrences including the earlier Day 1 'fight' between Parnassus and Moology, and calls out his current scummy looking targets. Parnassus, on the other hand, accuses us of shit-flinging yet directly after this he flings his own at other members of the thread, including a post meaning to 'direct our attention' to WittyHydraName. No support, no real purpose. Fivetouch makes some comment which Parnassus immediately +1s. If I didn't know better I would think the earlier shit-flinging fight Parnassus had with Moology was specifically staged to make the both of them look town, which most people seem to suspect of them. Since our vote is still on Moology right now, I think it's time to hear from the experts' desk; we're going to pass it off to Moology.

Moology, any thoughts regarding your performance last night, or the current voting trends?

On March 14 2013 08:44 ObliviousEyes wrote:
I find it interesting that you're speculating about a strategy that allows the hydras to "prevent them from being held accountable", when you JUST made a comment about not wanting to vote without the permission of your absent hydra head. What harm is there in placing a vote now? If you discuss it and he disagrees and convinces you, can you not change your vote?

On March 14 2013 09:09 ObliviousEyes wrote:
That's....fine. I can get behind that. I would like you to respond to my previous point though.



I never thought marv's vote was bad. Ever. In fact, I kinda liked it because it immediately demanded response due to the emotional nature of it, while still being a valid criticism of your play so early on.

On March 14 2013 09:35 ObliviousEyes wrote:
Well the thing is I think he was reacting more to the RolePM line than the "first" comment. Claiming not to read your role PM, whether honest or a joke, is bullshit (Hi Palmar).

The question becomes "would townMarv jump on something small early on to kick off discussion" vs "would scumMarv draw attention to himself by jumping on something so small early on". For me the answer is yes to both questions. It seems the answer is no to the first and yes to the second for you based on your post, does your read of him change if he was referring to the role PM post rather than the "first" post?

On March 14 2013 09:53 DrParnassus wrote:
mocsta, answer me this:

Palmar has claimed to not have read his role pm.

(assume you believe he's telling the truth)

Should he read his role pm?

On March 14 2013 10:03 DrParnassus wrote:


the difference in approach doesn't matter. if someone claims that they haven't read their role pm, you have only 2 options:

1. don't believe them
2. believe them, and don't take anything they say as alignment indicative

If player X doesn't know his alignment then it will be impossible for you to determine player x's alignment. (outside of eventual process of elimination) Everything that person says is said from a townie perspective, because even if they are scum, they don't know alignments.

Therefore, not reading your role pm is deliberately anti-town because it makes you unreadable. Marv's vote was justified, insofar as it pressures you to read your role pm.

btw nearly everything in the last few hours has been thrawn. once oats comes back i'll start signing posts

On March 14 2013 04:55 DrParnassus wrote:
IN general scum will avoid the spotlight if possible, and this is even more true in games where people yell and scream at each other. I know this from first hand experience, lol. Wittyname fits that bill.

On March 14 2013 11:10 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:

Looks like he is interested somewhat so leaning town for now

too early to tell though on a good scum player here.

On March 14 2013 11:28 FiveTouch wrote:
So, I'm reading through all these posts soft-accusing (read: discrediting) marv, but I still can't find a real reason that is even discussable. Closest thing I see is marv is "being aggressive, which isn't like town marv".

First off, town marv is aggressive when he needs to be, or really believes that he is right. I can go look up games for specific examples if you want me to, but it seems pretty obvious to me that you're either just making bullshit up, or judging off of a VERY limited sample size. Meta doesn't work like that. Don't fucking use meta if you don't understand how to use it properly.

Secondly, show me a game where scum marv was hyper-aggressive. Go on. I'll wait.

On March 14 2013 12:40 Mocsta wrote:
I chose not to call you scum, because I haven't seen anything specific that makes me think you are scum.
My concern is exactly as I detailed. I expect a town Marv to be blindingly obvious (to me); and I am not getting that.

Your emphasis on interpreting matters that I have explained simply and explicitly is not improving my opinion on your hydra.

Everything I wrote has been clear and to the point: so I am struggling to ascertain where your over-reactions originate from.

==============

Regardless let us continue discourse please: so what if I want to talk about you.

Why is that of so much concern to you; that you need to interject and apply immediate counter-pressure?

(moc)

On March 14 2013 12:38 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
What's more depressing is that one of them is likely to be town.

On March 14 2013 12:44 FiveTouch wrote:

Because your accusations have been completely unfounded. You've just been saying stuff about marv's meta without backing any of it up. Basically you've been working super hard to discredit us by soft-accusing us repeatedly and blowing hot air up everyone's ass, but haven't done jack shit about it.

On March 14 2013 13:13 FiveTouch wrote:

I think you're misunderstanding my intent here. If you have a good reason for continually calling-us-scum-without-actually-calling-us-scum, then fine. I'm totes down to discuss anything with someone who has a reasonable argument.

You've just been slinging shit without backing it up. THAT is my problem with how you've gone about this.

On March 14 2013 14:18 Mocsta wrote:

LOL, it was very recently you were the guy who had the worst reads on TL and tunneled them into oblivion.

*Anyways*

What is your stance on the vote?

On March 14 2013 12:04 Promato wrote:
As for who I want to vote for, I have yet to decide.

On March 14 2013 15:21 ObliviousEyes wrote:

Golems I would call scum-ish but coming from a town place. I like the role-play (it's interesting and fun to read and that makes this more fun for me!). I don't like the excusing themselves but then again, that's extending a courtesy so I'm seeing them more townie than Witty right now.

Snarfs is my own main concern right now given how little he's been around and his partner certainly isn't helping. He jumped way too fast on the ObsQT vote shenanigans and then never really followed it up.

On March 15 2013 06:43 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Newbie doubts our absence, Wave!

+ Show Spoiler [fluff] +

I assume that he means we shouldn't try to take advantage of a Witty modkill. I don't quite understand why though, so maybe he can explain it for us a bit better. As for Moology, I would say he's somewhat null leaning red right now. Can you explain for our viewers why, Wave?

I would love to! Through reading, there was one post that jumped out at us. **INSTANT REPLAY + Show Spoiler + Moo claims that he dislikes the post we made and yet he'll oblige us, and then unvotes us immediately. Maybe Moology can clarify whether that was meant to just discredit us or he thinks that we are scum. I know a few people wouldn't mind killing us tomorrow, but Moo hasn't seemed to take a completely solid stance on it yet. Anything else, Soniv?

Well, looking through again, he called out a few players who dislike the limelight as a scum player. He called me out, but I'm not really sure why. I haven't played scum in probably over a year, and even at that, I've only been scum maybe two or three times. So I'm not really sure where he was going at that (again, maybe just sowing seeds to discredit), and I'd like some clarity on that.

On March 15 2013 09:44 ObliviousEyes wrote:
@Moology

I don't see any votes from Golems on Dirk Hardpec.

-OO

On March 13 2013 22:28 Dirk Hardpec wrote:


Personal attacks.

I don't need to scumhunt, I already know who's town and who's scum.

On March 13 2013 22:29 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
wanna fight about it?

On March 13 2013 22:38 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
is this instant majority?

Cause I'll totally hammer that shit

On March 13 2013 22:45 Dirk Hardpec wrote:
So many choices.

Hey. how about a RNG decided lynch?

On March 15 2013 06:49 DrParnassus wrote:
really, please just drop the act. it's a fucking headache

On March 15 2013 17:03 DrParnassus wrote:
Lets say, Dirk is intentionally trolling, and those posts that you have quoted are meant by Dirk to look fucking bad. Does that still make him scum?

On March 15 2013 17:21 Moology wrote:
I would have loved to extract more information from them to develop the read further; but first, we need to stop replying on their behalf.

On March 15 2013 17:28 DrParnassus wrote:
His trolling INCLUDES the lack of reads, and the lack of care.

Dont you think that marv or someone else wouldve picked up on this earlier, if it wasnt obvious that Dirk is playing like out scum and that its just a joke?
Or do you think that you stumbled upon scum that no one suspected?

On March 15 2013 17:52 Mocsta wrote:
On phone

quit me?

On March 15 2013 18:07 DrParnassus wrote:


So are you gonna make a new case? Or not?

Ok do you have a second scum read?

Seriously Oats; dont fuckn cock-block me again when trying to pressure someone. Unless they are a fuckn probably town read for you; you have no reason to not be interested in the interaction. And so far, you have shown nothing that indicates Hardpec is a probably town read for you.

On March 15 2013 18:40 DrParnassus wrote:
I responded and then you went silent,

On March 16 2013 05:19 FiveTouch wrote:


There's flipping a coin, and there's screaming do not lynch because you flipped said coin.

~marv

On March 16 2013 11:50 DrParnassus wrote:
well, it 100% depends on how our conversation goes. it also very much depends on who wrote that post.

OE are you in here now? did you vote for VE?

On March 16 2013 15:38 TLCastingGolems wrote:
and you all are posting and reading based on you all knowing each other, which I do not.

On March 17 2013 07:43 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
Anywho Moology, where do you stand on Caster right now? Do you still unequivocally support an ObliviousEyes lynch first?

On March 17 2013 08:20 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Yep. Iamp is being lazy... he says I'm doing well enough for the both of us >>

On March 17 2013 08:20 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Yep. Iamp is being lazy... he says I'm doing well enough for the both of us >>

On March 17 2013 08:31 FiveTouch wrote:

You are missing the point entirely.

Yes, scum can be flexible *WHEN THEY HAVE TO BE*.

To play scum well, you have to be able to read thread atmosphere, and know how to 1) manipulate it, and 2) use it to know who you can push for a successful mislynch. Everything about the thread atmosphere at the time when Promato was talking about ObsQT was pointing towards ObsQT being a very possible lynch candidate. Scum don't shut down a potential mislynch option for themselves for no reason whatsoever. If thread atmosphere is turning, they will "change their minds" etc, but that was not the case at the time.

I think its very, very, very unlikely that Promato is scum.

On March 17 2013 08:31 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
and dealing with flood control when you have two spammy townies on the same hydra is annoying as fuck.

Franky. i dont get two shits about judging the "hydra".. because..
Guys like me/Omni are here at different timezones (7.20am sunday here); I have to trust his reads are on the same page as me... Your completely avoiding this accountability.

(Hapa)Huh? Not sure what you're getting at with the "accountability" thing.

On March 17 2013 11:45 TLCastingGolems wrote:


*shrug* it's different playing as a hydra. My contribution level probably looks less than it feels because of how much me and him were collaborating early on.

You never answered me before, it might have been lost in my post. What do you think of Moology?

On March 18 2013 09:42 Promato wrote:
Because I'm town and moo is scum.

On March 18 2013 10:03 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Ok, so OE died as framer. Cool beans. That means there's probably not a roleblocker.

Any preference to who we jail? (I'm partial to prom myself)

-S4

On March 18 2013 12:31 Promato wrote:
Isn't it fun how Moo is stuck on framing. Because he was on a team with a scum framer and is focusing on that power role. I'm not one to call 'scumslip!' but he is scum slipping hard.

On March 18 2013 12:39 FiveTouch wrote:
(Also, it's pretty strange how both of you were so sure that golems was lying 24 hours ago, but now you're more interested in each other. What changed?)

On March 18 2013 12:47 Promato wrote:


wat? I never thought the golems were lying. I've had them as town since day one.

On March 18 2013 13:03 FiveTouch wrote:

How the fuck is that a scum slip? Rofl.

On March 18 2013 13:07 DrParnassus wrote:
Moology, you are here.
In 5 minutes you better answer whether you are blue or scum.

Or I am policy lynching you for withholding information.

On March 18 2013 13:08 Promato wrote:
Okay mocsta. I say we play a game. You pretend you know I am town and tell me who your next scumspect is. Explain why you suspect that person (hydra) and why they will look scummier after my green flip. In return I won't call you an idiot for the duration of this game.

On March 18 2013 13:12 DrParnassus wrote:


What is that option?

On March 18 2013 13:17 DrParnassus wrote:


gnnnh?
Explain pl0x

On March 18 2013 13:23 TLCastingGolems wrote:

How exactly is that even plausible? Newbie WAS roleblocked. If we were a goon that would not have happened. If we were goon fakeclaiming RB or JK then why no counterclaim JK, making it easy as fuck to catch us in a lie and lynch?

On March 18 2013 13:21 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Sense.

This makes none.

On March 18 2013 13:27 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Scum RB + Framer is a perfectly plausible setup. How is it unlikely? The Framer is effectively a goon if we don't have a cop.

Also, how a mafia goon fake-claiming in their spot implausible?

On March 18 2013 13:31 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Lol I'm pretty sure I read JK and Soniv and I got really excited that we weren't VT for once.
Whatever, if DrH can go an entire game (LX) without reading any of the fucking roles and still play, be town and look scummy as fuck for not reading, then I'm allowed to not remember/read the entirety of mine.

Either way, proof or not, this doesn't change what happens tonight.

On March 18 2013 13:33 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


You claimed VT. You believe that Golems is Jailer.

Speaking of implausible setups, do you really believe that VT + Jailer + Cop is plausible?

On March 18 2013 13:45 DrParnassus wrote:
lol goddamn. everyone go smoke a blunt ffs

/thrawn

On March 18 2013 13:46 FiveTouch wrote:
Anyways, Promato is still the strongest of my town reads between Prom/Moology/Golems.

Everyone seems to not like my reasoning, but I went back and looked through a few of Yamato/Prom's scum games. I never saw anything similar to yamato's un-provoked read swap. And, on top of that, marv and I together (with something like 40+ games of experience between us) can remember a single instance of a scum reach change like that for absolutely no reason. Much less in the face of EXTRA reasoning. Combine that with pushing a damn good reason that VE was scum, and I just don't see it.

I'll talk with marv more about it tomorrow before the deadline, though.

On March 18 2013 13:46 FiveTouch wrote:
EBWOP: can't*

On March 18 2013 13:53 Promato wrote:
Golems: not reading the op is very different from not reading your own role pm. Don't equate one with the other.

On March 18 2013 14:24 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Sooo... what exactly is your stance on Casters now?

On March 18 2013 14:31 FiveTouch wrote:
So, Moology.

I want you to walk me through your sudden scum read of VE. I'm looking back through your filter, and you didn't mention VE even once until your "last will" post, and then it was just a "meh, he's not being very active".

But the Dirk flip suddenly painted a big read target onto VE for you. Why exactly? You said that a newbie wouldn't have killed Dirk, so it was probably one of the more "vet'ish" players. So, why not me/marv, whom you had actually been suspcious throughout the day? Hell, looking back, I don't even see any reason that you dropped the suspicion of us. The only thing I can think of is that thread sentiment started painting us as town, so you quit pursuing your suspicions.

But, there's still Hapa too. Why wouldn't Hapa/iamp have made that kill? They've both been around TL for 8-9 months and are quite familiar with Palmar/bugs. Or hell, even Soniv (who, while IMO is not the best player around, he's still been around for a very long time and should know the reputations of bugs/palmar/marv/ve etc)?

Basically, you're reasoning is bad because there aren't really very many "newbies" in this game. Your team is by far the newest players, and maybe Thrawn/Oats being second. But even thrawn has been around in a while.

So explain why that single event suddenly made VE 100% scum instead of anyone else?

On March 18 2013 14:43 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Moology looking real hard for a way to pin this on either myself or Prom.

On March 18 2013 15:08 Promato wrote:
Moo is mafia

That's all I have to say about this game

Wagon of justice, gogogogogogo.

On March 18 2013 15:14 FiveTouch wrote:
@moology:

I'm not talking about what you said recently. I'm talking specifically about what you were saying around the end of night 1/ start of day 2.

The only thing that took VE from a very weak "I'm only throwing him in here because he hasn't been very active" read in your Last Will post, to being sure he was scum was "the Dirk NK doesn't make sense fr anyone but VE".

Those are exact thoughts from your filter, and I just don't see that making sense.

Also, it is very specifically in your filter that you didn't think the dirk NK could have come from Hapa.

On March 18 2013 23:06 FiveTouch wrote:
I plan to look at the evolution of Moology's OE read this evening; I think my meta metric for deciding whether Mocsta is mafia (argumentative to a tee) is out of date as he matures his game.
~marv

On March 18 2013 23:27 FiveTouch wrote:


The sooner the better, I don't like basing my reads on incomplete information when the information can simply be given to me.

~marv

On March 18 2013 23:30 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
want to give us a hint to what it is?

On March 18 2013 23:25 Moology wrote:
hint: Neutral Surviving Balrog is the theme.

On March 18 2013 23:32 FiveTouch wrote:


Given there's a decent chance I'll be dead by tomorrow, I'd like to be given the chance to process any information in this night phase.

I know you've kinda talked about it before but I'd like you to talk about the evolution of your OE read. At the end of Night 1 he wasn't even in your top 4 in terms of interest, and yet as soon as Day started you sheeped me immediately on to him. Promato and Dirk were your top reads, and yet all of a sudden you were siding with Promato against OE. Why?

~marv

On March 18 2013 23:33 Oatsmaster wrote:
I told you you were either scum or blue.


Mocsta, are you playing based on dramatic plays, or to win the game.

On March 18 2013 23:44 FiveTouch wrote:


Ok I'll have to re-read and see what Omni said about things. I assume Golems is your last read for mafia. Based on the Jailkeeper claim? Other stuff too?

~marv

On March 18 2013 23:45 Oatsmaster wrote:


So cut the crap, and give us whatever you dont want to because day 3 is better?? ??

On March 18 2013 23:54 FiveTouch wrote:
... if you are a townie.

On March 18 2013 23:55 Promato wrote:
I'm not

On March 18 2013 23:57 Promato wrote:
cute

On March 18 2013 23:58 Oatsmaster wrote:


The utter lack of you doing anything near to useful is disturbing to say the least..

On March 19 2013 05:24 Promato wrote:
I cannot help but notice that tonight ends in two and a half hours and Mr Eulogy has killed the discussion. Vote Moo. Vote scum.

On March 19 2013 05:54 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:


Alternatively, you can spend the next two hours convincing us why Promato is scum. Because I don't see it at all.

On March 19 2013 05:56 FiveTouch wrote:

Because you are?

Honestly I had hoped you would put up a fight

On March 19 2013 05:56 Hapahauli wrote:


Who scum brah?

On March 19 2013 05:58 FiveTouch wrote:

What benefit is there to waiting?

Give whoever is going to be NK'd tonight time to weigh in on whatever it is you have to say.

On March 19 2013 06:04 Hapahauli wrote:
If no one is going to be NK'd, why the fuck do you care about posting so close to the deadline?

On March 19 2013 06:14 FiveTouch wrote:
Why are people so goddamn frustrating to play with lately?

Seriously.

On March 16 2013 05:15 FiveTouch wrote:


This... this is not a good reason to have a strong townread on someone. You could eaSily make the argument the other way - if they gave it up immediately, they Are immediately making the thread more readable, and making themselVEs MorE readable. Instead they chose to continue to be more unreadable than is necessary. You're effectively WIFOMING yourself into your strongest town read.

Just fyi, I think Golems are probably town too, but your reasoning is wonky.

~marv

On March 19 2013 08:06 TLCastingGolems wrote:
I really want to know why Moo/OE killed Dirk N1, but I guess we can wait til he flips to get an answer.

-S4