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On March 17 2013 11:49 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 11:45 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 17 2013 11:39 FiveTouch wrote:
The point is, ObsQT just posted about how you played in LX, making cases on multiple Toms, Dicks, and Harrys. In this game, you haven't given a solid reason to be suspicious of ANYONE. What gives? *shrug* it's different playing as a hydra. My contribution level probably looks less than it feels because of how much me and him were collaborating early on. You never answered me before, it might have been lost in my post. What do you think of Moology? Why are you asking one of your strongest town reads his opinion on Moology? I should be asking you the same, since I literally have no idea where you stand on most players barring "gut-feeling."
Yes, he is one of my strongest town reads. That means I can't ask him questions? What the fuck?
On March 17 2013 11:46 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 11:37 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 17 2013 11:28 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
Though if Wave wrote that case and you're not standing by it, then that means you haven't posted a single case all game. I'm sorry? It's not that I'm not standing by his case. I believe we are more likely to find scum in OE, but that doesn't mean I disagree with his case. It has to do with your play in general. In your town games, you aren't afraid to post analysis, build cases... etc. This game is markedly different from any of your town games I've read. Why the discrepancy? Furthermore your game is very conceptually similar (lack of analysis, posting, etc) to a scum-game you've played in the past. Your behavior in past games strongly suggests you're scum.
You are putting way too much stock in outdated "meta" based on my first ever game as scum 1.5 years ago. You put too much stock in meta in general. Everyone does.
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On March 17 2013 11:50 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 11:45 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 17 2013 11:39 FiveTouch wrote:
The point is, ObsQT just posted about how you played in LX, making cases on multiple Toms, Dicks, and Harrys. In this game, you haven't given a solid reason to be suspicious of ANYONE. What gives? *shrug* it's different playing as a hydra. My contribution level probably looks less than it feels because of how much me and him were collaborating early on. You never answered me before, it might have been lost in my post. What do you think of Moology? I didn't answer you because it was a dumb question. I've made it abundantly clear what my stance on Moology is. Why are you not reading the thread? What is *YOUR* stance on Moology, since you haven't given an opinion on him?
If it was abundantly clear, I wouldn't be asking. I looked through, but can't find it.
Please reiterate.
(apparently, it's ok for you guys to force me to repeat myself, but it's not ok for me to ask a question)
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On March 17 2013 11:56 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 11:52 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 17 2013 11:50 FiveTouch wrote:On March 17 2013 11:45 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 17 2013 11:39 FiveTouch wrote:
The point is, ObsQT just posted about how you played in LX, making cases on multiple Toms, Dicks, and Harrys. In this game, you haven't given a solid reason to be suspicious of ANYONE. What gives? *shrug* it's different playing as a hydra. My contribution level probably looks less than it feels because of how much me and him were collaborating early on. You never answered me before, it might have been lost in my post. What do you think of Moology? I didn't answer you because it was a dumb question. I've made it abundantly clear what my stance on Moology is. Why are you not reading the thread? What is *YOUR* stance on Moology, since you haven't given an opinion on him? If it was abundantly clear, I wouldn't be asking. I looked through, but can't find it. Please reiterate. (apparently, it's ok for you guys to force me to repeat myself, but it's not ok for me to ask a question) I find it hard to believe you actually looked. It's right in our end-of-night reads post. Show nested quote +On March 16 2013 07:59 FiveTouch wrote:
Moology - Kei and I had some disagreements about this originally, but I'm fairly convinced Moology is town. Mocsta was arguing with the Dr. earlier in the thread, but took the opportunity to abandon the argument. Mocsta, as mafia, LOVES these arguments. He'll literally go at it for pages and pages, but here he didn't. In addition to this, his posts feel sincere, I can follow his thought process, his suspicions, and he seems to be genuinely trying to figure things out.
Oh, I was looking for a more up to date read. I assume this is still the case then?
I agree with your read, but not necessarily the reason. Moctsa did in fact take the early argument for quite a few pages, so I don't think him dropping it is what makes him town.
It's this post:
On March 17 2013 07:57 Moology wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 07:43 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
Anywho Moology, where do you stand on Caster right now? Do you still unequivocally support an ObliviousEyes lynch first? Yes, Although I do believe Golems is our 2nd scum, I see no reason to lynch him over OE today. After OE flips scum all of this will stop being speculation, Prom will imo without a doubt be town and Golems will be guilty. I admit I've had some bad calls by switching to my 2nd scum read for votes lately and that is also weighing on my mind. I'd much rather lynch my top scum read than lynch Golems with even the slightest chance that he's actually our JK and he's just played everything terribly up till now. I guess his blue claim as much as it seems awful does still give me 2nd thoughts. I don't think any townie should be fine to just lynch a blue claim with no counter even with all this evidence against him.
I asked you, FT, because it's similar logic to what you used for Promato. However, the difference is that you are basing your read on Promato retracting his read on Newbie (someone you can't be 100% sure of alignment of unless he flips)
I know my alignment, and because of that, Moology reads town from this post. He thinks I'm scum, k, whatever, so does the rest of the world. The fact that he has the opportunity to gain more ground on someone who has claimed blue (and who he would know is town if he were scum) but doesn't take the opportunity to force the mislynch shows me he's thinking as town and not scum.
This is different from your logic on Prom because I know my alignment. The logic is largely similar, but it works out differently in my mind - if that makes sense to you.
-S4
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Getting late, I need to be up early. Not sure if Wave will be around tonight.
Apparently nobody else cares that OE still hasn't shown up and has just let this shit storm develop. I'm personally done until he shows up.
-S4
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Alright it's me again ladies.
What a shit-show this has become. You guys as a town are just completely tunneling us without ever considering absolutely anything else, and so you guys are going to fuck the whole town over as a result. You've completely lost sight of the rest of the game because you think you have it solved but YOU'RE WRONG. Your confirmation bias is blinding you to any other possibilities.
Nothing we will ever give you is going to be good enough as Soniv seems to have displayed thus far, and we're in danger of losing sight of the one seemingly sure scumread we as a town have despite the fact HE HASN'T EVEN BEEN AROUND ALL FUCKING DAY.
At this point I think Soniv has the right idea; I would love to entertain you guys further if anything I said or did got you onto the right track, but it WON'T. Therefore, keeping silent makes more sense because maybe you guys will be forced to turn attention elsewhere and save a mislynch. We are completely on board for lynching OE today. If we survive the night (which will only happen if you guys are fucking stupid and let mafia think you're killing us tomorrow) then maybe we can somehow continue the discourse.
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-WAVE^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
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Don't threaten me. I don't respond well to threats.
Why should you believe our claim?
a) Fuck you and your meta reads. This is a hydra game. If I was playing by myself you could be damn sure this filter would be a lot bigger and a lot shittier. Not to mention a lot less fearful of sounding like a complete utter moron because I stake Soniv's reputation on our combined play. (Which I already fucked up on since I got impatient). As you can see I'm a lot less fearful now already because it's so frustrating watch you and the rest of thread tunnel us so goddamn hard based on absolutely everything we say or do, positive or negative.
b) It's true. Scum risking a blue claim in the middle of the day? Come on. Is there any way we COULD prove a blue claim to you? If there is, by all means, I'd love to hear it.
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On March 17 2013 13:13 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 13:01 NewbieXXXI_ObsQT wrote:
And listen, I'm not even asking for much.
All I've been asking for the last 24 hours is for either of you to go and give me some analysis. Your filter is devoid of any scumhunting. I'm giving you plenty of time to rectify that, and neither of you are willing to put a mediocum of effort towards building a case.
Getting reads out of either of you is like pulling teeth. Do something FFS. Already did, on Prom and then had to go out for the evening. You didn't like it, and now choose to ignore it. This will be different from any other case I pull out of my ass how? FT, I'd love to survive as long as possible but the forcing of our blueclaim in the first place and the incessant tunneling makes that unlikely to happen. (And for the record, despite Soniv's accidental blueclaim, we were eventually going to have to do it anyway). Alright Newbie, give me some time as I'm going to have to read the entire thread over to avoid shitposting. I am only doing this because I feel it might finally get the thread moving in a direction other than directly towards us 24 hours a fucking day, and I don't want this town to lose. I'll try to hunt some fucking scum my way, fuck the hydra, because I doubt I could make us look worse at this point. Last time I ever attempt to play a hydra game the way I thought it should be played. Jesus fucking christ.
Oh for SHIT ASS FUCK SAKES
QUOTED FOR GODDAMN FILTER
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Alright I read through both OE's and Prom's filters and all I saw honestly was them flinging shit back and forth at each other.
The biggest problem I see here with trying to get a solid read on Prom is it requires me to know metas once again. Yamato calling VE out for meta in Nomination mafia is going to be impossible for me to determine one way or another (I've tried to research backwards through past mafia games I wasn't involved in before. It's too much for me, or I need some fucking lessons or something.) and that's basically ALL his entire case is based on. If he's wrong then how could I prove this?
Obvious simple logic states that in a 2-mafia setup you're not going to see a double-bus but re-reading through both of their filters, and knowing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING about meta like I do, Prom honestly seems scummier than OE to me. I trust Soniv (and I'm TRYING to trust the rest of town, but fuck all of you) with his read on OE but looking back, I'm not sure I agree anymore. OE's defenses are much more put-together and Prom is generally content to fling shit and sit back and watch, without pushing further with more information since his initial case took hold. My vote will remain on OE because as a HYDRA TEAM that is what we agreed upon but as Soniv has gone to bed, we can't discuss it until tomorrow. If this post somehow fucks us even worse and he gets mad at me again, well fuck him because you assholes forced my hand.
If this is a double-bus going down (note that both Prom and OE have had similar reads on other people throughout the game until turning on each other) I will forever consider myself the best alive. There are a lot of things about it that make sense, again albeit unlikely. If I'm wrong (likely to be so) then I'll continue to be the idiot you guys know and hate.
Explanation of gut-read on Newbie inc.
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Alright, I've tried. Newbie your scumhunting is relentless, to the point of absolute obstinacy towards us, yet you flip off of Promato directly after calling him scum once Yamato brings up his only solid case all game is worrisome. You appear to be so good at digging through old games, filters and posts to find exactly what you need, and much of is legitimately good, but simply the fact that you appear to be so bullishly opposed to the idea that we are town since basically THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME when you first got annoyed with our style just doesn't allow me to view you as town yet.
You are null to me, leaning town because there are a lot of things in your filter that honestly seem like too much effort to go through if you were scum. You're constantly pressuring in places that require pressure at many right points in time, yet you also devote much of your time to discussing lurkers like us, WittyHydraName and Dirk, all of which are town. There is too much dichotomy to give me a clear town read.
Now, is it POSSIBLE to entertain the discussion elsewhere so that I may feel like I can contribute positively rather than continue to defend myself to no end? Fuck, lynch us after OE if you must but at least try to consider other points of you so that you might fucking LEARN something when we die.
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On March 17 2013 14:25 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2013 14:15 TLCastingGolems wrote:
Alright, I've tried. Newbie your scumhunting is relentless, to the point of absolute obstinacy towards us, yet you flip off of Promato directly after calling him scum once Yamato brings up his only solid case all game is worrisome. You appear to be so good at digging through old games, filters and posts to find exactly what you need, and much of is legitimately good, but simply the fact that you appear to be so bullishly opposed to the idea that we are town since basically THE BEGINNING OF THE GAME when you first got annoyed with our style just doesn't allow me to view you as town yet.
You are null to me, leaning town because there are a lot of things in your filter that honestly seem like too much effort to go through if you were scum. You're constantly pressuring in places that require pressure at many right points in time, yet you also devote much of your time to discussing lurkers like us, WittyHydraName and Dirk, all of which are town. There is too much dichotomy to give me a clear town read.
Now, is it POSSIBLE to entertain the discussion elsewhere so that I may feel like I can contribute positively rather than continue to defend myself to no end? Fuck, lynch us after OE if you must but at least try to consider other points of you so that you might fucking LEARN something when we die. So why do you have a town read on me if I've done everything you just said keeps you from giving a town read to ObsQT? What is different about us?
FiveTouch, you're completely different from how Newbie has been playing this game. You're not afraid to direct suspicion anywhere and everywhere and you are much more open to suggestion. You're also often the first person to call a lot of people out on their bullshit, including us, yet are not so quick to tunnel a read. You, in my opinion, added more to the case against OE than Prom did after he built it. I'm not a fan of your unilateral support of Prom right now, but it makes sense to me in a way.
If through some miracle OE flips town I think you and Prom are right fucked, but I don't see that happening.
Yamato, thoughts on the recent suspicion that has been directed towards you? DrParnassus makes a good point in that you didn't follow up against me/us, and apparently you feel you had the game solved already.
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Holy crap, looks like Wave decided to show up.
I unfortunately won't be available most of the day. I've got my final home gymnastics meet, and then Wave and I are scheduled to cast at 5 eastern time. Not sure if I'll be available at lynch time.
However, I'm completely on board with Wave's case on Prom. I still think that OE should die first for obvious reasons, but Prom should be next.
It's interesting that as soon as he's called out and a case is made on him, Promato shows up. The entire first half of this day was devoted to shit being thrown at Wave and I. And yet Prom has us null leaning town? Why did he wait until he was in the spotlight to say anything? He's clearly been here and following because he posted right away. I smell some bullshit.
-S4
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Ok, so OE died as framer. Cool beans. That means there's probably not a roleblocker.
Any preference to who we jail? (I'm partial to prom myself)
-S4
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Alright, am I an idiot or something...?
How exactly is the game solved if we 'game' the NK by doing what Newbie suggested?
Isn't it theoretically possible for Parn/Newbie/FT to be scum? (I don't think you are necessarily, but still)
Is it weird that I don't think it's wise to assume as such?
I mean, I'll still be JKing either Prom or Moology, but I'm not sure how that technically proves anything; you guys are just assuming confirmed townies when I don't quite see it...
Anyway just let us know before time limit tomorrow which of the two you want JKed since Newbie's plan didn't really make a difference as to what we'd be doing at night anyway.
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I actually put some effort into this game since I actually had a timespan in which to do so, and now it doesn't look that we're lying since I stopped fucking things up for us.
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On March 18 2013 13:15 Moology wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:08 Promato wrote:
Okay mocsta. I say we play a game. You pretend you know I am town and tell me who your next scumspect is. Explain why you suspect that person (hydra) and why they will look scummier after my green flip. In return I won't call you an idiot for the duration of this game. Well the game is solved. castingGolems *are* most likely town. I dont expect scum framer + scum RB'r So they are either scum goon fake claiming (plausible due to VE lynch, but unlikely)or actual blue role (most likely). I know my role.. and i know my interactions with ppl like FT/Dr.P went someway to divining all our alignments as town.. so that leaves you as the lowest hanging fruit; in short: I cant play along because I can't envisage a different scenario. (moc)
How exactly is that even plausible? Newbie WAS roleblocked. If we were a goon that would not have happened. If we were goon fakeclaiming RB or JK then why no counterclaim JK, making it easy as fuck to catch us in a lie and lynch?
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On March 18 2013 13:24 FiveTouch wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:23 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 18 2013 13:15 Moology wrote:On March 18 2013 13:08 Promato wrote:
Okay mocsta. I say we play a game. You pretend you know I am town and tell me who your next scumspect is. Explain why you suspect that person (hydra) and why they will look scummier after my green flip. In return I won't call you an idiot for the duration of this game. Well the game is solved. castingGolems *are* most likely town. I dont expect scum framer + scum RB'r So they are either scum goon fake claiming (plausible due to VE lynch, but unlikely)or actual blue role (most likely). I know my role.. and i know my interactions with ppl like FT/Dr.P went someway to divining all our alignments as town.. so that leaves you as the lowest hanging fruit; in short: I cant play along because I can't envisage a different scenario. (moc) How exactly is that even plausible? Newbie WAS roleblocked. If we were a goon that would not have happened. If we were goon fakeclaiming RB or JK then why no counterclaim JK, making it easy as fuck to catch us in a lie and lynch? Err what? How do you know they were roleblocked?
Uh....because we're the fucking JK?
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On March 18 2013 13:25 Moology wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2013 13:23 TLCastingGolems wrote:On March 18 2013 13:15 Moology wrote:On March 18 2013 13:08 Promato wrote:
Okay mocsta. I say we play a game. You pretend you know I am town and tell me who your next scumspect is. Explain why you suspect that person (hydra) and why they will look scummier after my green flip. In return I won't call you an idiot for the duration of this game. Well the game is solved. castingGolems *are* most likely town. I dont expect scum framer + scum RB'r So they are either scum goon fake claiming (plausible due to VE lynch, but unlikely)or actual blue role (most likely). I know my role.. and i know my interactions with ppl like FT/Dr.P went someway to divining all our alignments as town.. so that leaves you as the lowest hanging fruit; in short: I cant play along because I can't envisage a different scenario. (moc) How exactly is that even plausible? Newbie WAS roleblocked. If we were a goon that would not have happened. If we were goon fakeclaiming RB or JK then why no counterclaim JK, making it easy as fuck to catch us in a lie and lynch? No1 knows if Newbie was RB'd as the OP says its not telegraphed....
Oh THAT I didn't know.
Well in any case, yeah. I guess now I can't prove that your post makes no sense but I know it doesn't make any sense based on our role.
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Lol I'm pretty sure I read JK and Soniv and I got really excited that we weren't VT for once.
Whatever, if DrH can go an entire game (LX) without reading any of the fucking roles and still play, be town and look scummy as fuck for not reading, then I'm allowed to not remember/read the entirety of mine.
Either way, proof or not, this doesn't change what happens tonight.
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EPT
