TL Mafia LX

On February 26 2013 11:27 WaveofShadow wrote:

A thought popped into my head regarding this...it may be absolutely retarded but you guys will let me know that after the fact, won't you?

Since the pardoner is inherently more dangerous as a scumrole and the plan to 'kill two birds with one stone' in all likelihood won't (or can't at this point) gain the traction necessary to be carried out, why not give up the role to someone who is likely to be targeted early anyway, or someone who if you are overly suspicious of, you can lynch yourselves anyway?
Case and point: a newbie.

I graciously offer up myself to be the (possible) sacrificial lamb to do with as you will. If you so choose to lynch me for fear that I am scum, then I go down happily, hopefully bringing as much information to the table as possible before I crash and burn in an epic fireball. If you choose to keep me around, then I will serve the town gladly and I will offer up my pardon to save a deserving person. Since I am new to this whole durned mafia thing, I am likely to be either ignored or an easy mafia target, keeping the role out of scum's reach.


WHAT SAY YOU GENTLEMEN

On February 26 2013 11:57 WaveofShadow wrote:

Alright, I sort of see your point, but the question is can I pardon myself D1? If not then the plan theoretically stands and you have nothing to worry about (unless you think I'm scummy at a later date). If so then....yeah I suppose I'd have to go with hoping that you guys trust me.

Of course the other option is to make me Mayor if you have that much trust in me but to be perfectly honest, I would NOT do the role justice despite how 'super townie' Prom says I am. Need a few more games under my belt for that.
Ultimately it's all up to you guys. If my idea is dumb then it's dumb and we can move on.

On February 26 2013 12:02 MilkSuckler wrote:
I am going to sheep this.
I think the role has to go to someone we trust. Hence we are back to voting the two pro-towniest pricks in the game.

As far as I am concerned, a pardoner saving themselves from lynch is not alignment indicative.
=======
@WoS: Whilst I applaud your confidence to stand before the experienced players present and declare you're love of town; it does little to earn my trust.

You say you want to put Prome on the backburner and continue scum hunting: what make you of "Wade Fell"

On February 26 2013 12:14 MilkSuckler wrote:

That the role needs to go to someone we trust and someone responsible.

Not just a newbie that is at risk of being ignored.

I thought it was transparent.

On February 26 2013 12:20 VayeshMoru wrote:


A question appears. Does this lab rat have experience in worlds outside of the team liquid?

If so why would the experiment feel the need to declare his inability to perform.

On February 27 2013 09:48 MilkSuckler wrote:
EBWOP fail
TestSubject893
Can i please have your Wade Fell read (just town, null, scum) will suffice.

On February 27 2013 09:50 layabout wrote:

Why are you trying to make people doubt the alignment of somebody that you think is town?

And isn't the same thing happening for VE that you say is happening for Dr.h? People are treating VE like confirmed town too and him being elected might cause reads to be strengthened too?

On February 27 2013 10:01 layabout wrote:

But you think he is town so why spread doubt about him?

I get what your point is but you have no reason to make it since all you might do is dissuade others from voting in someone that you think is town.

+it would be far more relevant to talk about VE since he is the one that currently stand to be mayor and the one you voted for. Plus why don't you want people to look over their reads on him since he is being treated more like a confirmed townie thatn dr.h is.

On February 27 2013 10:41 layabout wrote:

It's quite simple, you said you thought he was town. at the same time you tried to cast suspicion on him. if you are town then doing this is counter productive. it's also not very relevant since ve is the one who is going to win. So i wanted to know why you posted that since it tells me about your mindset.

I didn't want you to respond because i have nothing more to say on the issue and dragging it out serves no purpose.I posted because you didn't answer my question i did the same when others didn't answer my questions. Your response was also gave me information about you but i didn't feel like i needed any more with regards to that post.

On February 27 2013 11:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Gotta love seeing the mafia panic as soon as I get any cred. I'm not even pushing my own election. If I'm pardoner i wont use the power. Noone is confirmed town unless you're scum and already know or they die and flip. If your suspicion is based on the fact that I'm not confirmed as town, then kill anyone.

Misrepresenting as hell to say all i did was pressure prom a little. I made the biggest case to get the wagon rolling and I nailed wos and vivax to the wall immediately when I got wary of their posts. Even if I'm wrong about prom, my aggression and focus will have the scum sweating.

Prom layabout jj geript testsubject vivax

Gg no re

If you don't trust me, don't vote for me. If you're suspicious of me have the balls to call me scum. If your goal is to discredit a player who is scumhunting aggressively then you're not helping, especially if you can't point out how my case is so flawed, or honestly represent my post history. Geript has admitted only that i make him nervous and i doubt the town feels the same way. Hmmm who might react that way then?

Prom dies today, everyone else gets pressure. I'll save my next case for when it matters because splitting the wagons now does no good.

If you're just coming in now to discredit active townies after being absent from all productive town discussion, kiss your scum ass goodbye and learn how to play next time.

On February 27 2013 11:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Gotta love seeing the mafia panic as soon as I get any cred. I'm not even pushing my own election. If I'm pardoner i wont use the power. Noone is confirmed town unless you're scum and already know or they die and flip.

If your suspicion is based on the fact that I'm not confirmed as town, then kill anyone.

Misrepresenting as hell to say all i did was pressure prom a little. I made the biggest case to get the wagon rolling and I nailed wos and vivax to the wall immediately when I got wary of their posts. Even if I'm wrong about prom, my aggression and focus will have the scum sweating.

Prom layabout jj geript testsubject vivax

Gg no re

If you don't trust me, don't vote for me. If you're suspicious of me have the balls to call me scum. If your goal is to discredit a player who is scumhunting aggressively then you're not helping, especially if you can't point out how my case is so flawed, or honestly represent my post history. Geript has admitted only that i make him nervous and i doubt the town feels the same way. Hmmm who might react that way then?

Prom dies today, everyone else gets pressure. I'll save my next case for when it matters because splitting the wagons now does no good.

If you're just coming in now to discredit active townies after being absent from all productive town discussion, kiss your scum ass goodbye and learn how to play next time.

On February 27 2013 11:53 MilkSuckler wrote:
I think it was just a point communicated poorly. Not necessary the message itself, but the whole message.

?Layabout? summed it up well, you call him most likely town, but then cast doubt whilst propping VE.

I think the issue was, you had two separate items to address (Support VE + Query Dr.H) but because you melded it together in one post; it read as a political move to cast doubt on one candidate whilst shining a torch on the other.

Personally I was on the same page with you, as I pointed out prior.

On February 27 2013 12:10 VisceraEyes wrote:


Is it just me or does this read like he's been here reading all along and was signing off in spite of having said like nothing in hours? :/

On February 27 2013 13:02 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I've been at work on my phone so I apologize for not being clear but quoting is a bitch. Testsubject, that post was 80% aimed at geript. My point really is someone getting trust is only a problem of you hate their ideas or think they are likely scum. Hopefully we are all aware that noone is confirmed at this point so its a nonissue. The only outcome of a post like that is either seeding distrust on town or making me defend against nothing. May be an honest townie mistake though, its important to look at your posts as a means to the end of killing scum.

On February 27 2013 13:40 WaveofShadow wrote:

I don't think he meant that we're scum with that comment.

So are we dead-set on having VE and Dr.H as Mayor/pardoner at this point? Do we know 100% what their motives are for D1 (Prom lynch) and will they stick to them? Does it matter which one gets which role?

On February 28 2013 07:03 GreYMisT wrote:
Day 1 Mayor Vote Count

Wade Fell (6): Toadesstern, VisceraEyes, VisceraEyes, DoctorHelvetica, Aquanim, glurio, vivax, JungleJorge, Chezinu, ObviousOne, Wade Fell

geript (0): geript

VisceraEyes (7): VisceraEyes, Promethelax, VisceraEyes, Toadesstern, ObviousOne, glurio, Hassybaby, VisceraEyes, The Macho Man, Restraining Order, TestSubject893, grush57, randombum, geript, WaveofShadow

Chezinu (0): VayeshMoru

WaveofShadow (0): Restraining Order

grush57 (0): grush57

DoctorHelvetica (5): Toadesstern, Milksuckler, layabout, VayeshMoru, jcarlsoniv, glurio, VisceraEyes

Promethelax (5): geript, TestSubject893, Toadesstern, Vivax, Layabout

The Day ends at 00:00 GMT (+00:00). If you are a leading candidate, please have your lynch selection into me prior to the deadline.

At the moment VisceraEyes is to be elected Mayor and DoctorHelvetica is to be elected Pardoner

On February 28 2013 07:05 Wade Fell wrote:
Right now, all it takes is like a FEW bad townies from the group voting for VE, DrH and me to say "hey guys I thinkg Geript is actually the best let's vote him" and BAM Prometheleax is the mayor.

Come on, we can't take that risk.

On February 28 2013 08:33 layabout wrote:
So at the moment Doc has 9 votes VE has 9 and Wade has 8.

Great jobs guys. We have taken a day with a lynch that was more or less decided in a few hours with minimal lynch discussion, added 70 pages shouted at each other then split ourselves evenly between 3 players allowing a small number of probably not town players the power to decide the mayoral election. We have also been very rude to each other.

On February 28 2013 09:07 Toadesstern wrote:
that being said Laya, VE (sadly), and I myself are all pretty much confirmed town, dr.H as well though not as much (from a objective point of view ignoring everything else because of timestamps, if you add everything else he probably looks better than the 3 of us).

So protecting anyone in that list sounds good to me.

Grush is the next mafia that needs to be either shot or vigged.

See you tomorrow.

On March 01 2013 05:11 VisceraEyes wrote:
My goal was to not be MAYOR.

On March 01 2013 14:41 MilkSuckler wrote:

... What are you trying to achieve with this..

you know, someone (I think it was aqua) called you scum.

posts like that, are starting to make me think he was right

is there proper analysis in this.. or even a conclusion?

Waste of a read, as far as I am concerned.. (perhaps Im just pissed at waiting almost 2 hrs for this day vig claim)

On March 01 2013 14:46 MilkSuckler wrote:

Its a waste of read regardless..

why even say you think Aqua/OO is scum.. if your not going to produce a single iota of evidence or reason.

Its like he felt obliged to post, because he said he woudl share some thoughts.

On March 01 2013 14:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Well, tell us your thoughts on Aqua. What exactly about OO made you think he wasn't scum? You need to show your work.

I didn't really see the point in posting serious cases after about midway through D1. I much prefer to pressure someone when I can actually threaten them with a lynch, and the Prom lynch was pretty much cemented. My play was focusing on dissecting cases made by other people (geript and Vivax in particular iirc) and thinking about whether they were sincere.

On March 01 2013 14:48 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Post your case on OO even if you're doubting it now. I've posted some dumb cases so far and changed my mind. At least it will show us you're actually trying

On March 01 2013 15:55 Aquanim wrote:
@TestSubject, why do you think one of OO and myself is scum?
Also, I'd like to hear your read on layabout.

GG Milkman. Your milk is delicious.

On March 02 2013 02:41 JungleJorge wrote:
I jailed toad. I normally wouldn't claim like this, but reading this game is annoying me. Chezinu is confirmed scum btw, we should be voting him. There is absolutely no way chez would shoot someone randomly like that as town, without even giving him a chance to claim. His filter has no previous mentioned of him. Chez was a lynch target for today, so it makes sense for him to use his power as mafia not to waste kp. Besides all these obvious things that make him mafia, his behavior is very different from his town games, where he trolls but actively gives out reads and is way more interactive with players. Here we notice posting in small bursts, only to keep appearances and not engaged in any issues town is discussing.
##Vote Chezinu

On March 03 2013 01:46 MilkSuckler wrote:
No bites? Lets try again


I am happy to lynch Chezinu/Geript over consecutive cycles, as the cases are not associations.

The reason I would lynch Geript > Chezinu, is because: Chezinu already used his day-vig shot.

Geript, no idea what role he possesses.

@ALL

Thoughts? - Vote exodus to Geript?

On March 02 2013 15:54 WaveofShadow wrote:

You're not even going to attempt to defend your shit logic? What exactly would a flip on you prove? We've already had flips on people you've been fingering all game and boy oh BOY have THEY been telling.

I'm honestly just wondering how you're going to justify all of your tells throughout the game to yourself in the postgame. I'm really looking forward to it. Especially if your lynch in some who-the-fuck-knows-how way gets me killed.

On March 03 2013 01:56 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Who was it that said JJ was scum for claiming Jailer? That person is likely scum and should get shot. That is absolute retardation JJ is confirmed town

On March 03 2013 01:57 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
by the way if the mad hatter had bombs on chezinu and geript id consider lynching the mad hatter

or testsubject/geript

just blow this game up and let's see what we have on day 3

On March 03 2013 02:03 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

I actually wondered about that bit too, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt and let him clarify before I call it a scumslip.

And you because you were there with geript pushing doubt and nothing else on Day 1 Prom Lynch and you're playing very scared and hesitant. Problem with mafia game is differentiating new and scared town from mafia can be pretty hard so I'd hope you start putting some pep in your step and show some initiative here.

On March 03 2013 02:23 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
and @TestSubject, go read Ver's guide, go look at some good townplay in other threads, there's always aggression. I've relentlessly attacked people I didn't have strong reads are because it forces me to come to a conclusion based on their responses. Look how hard I grilled WoS early in this game on more or less one/two sentences. He responded well and that null/unsure read got pushed into a town read. You have to push your null reads so they swing one way or the other, if you just sit on a null read then you're not ever going to have an opinion.

On March 03 2013 05:50 layabout wrote:
I wasn't trying to have an argument, i was trying to give one of many reasons that i think Dr.h is town and see what geript thought of it since he has basically defaulted to "dr.h is scum no fu i am not scum! go on and lynch me then". He just responded by attacking me like somebody has told him to shit up the thread since he is getting lynched tomorrow.

Before today i wrote him off as as a crazy newbie, but i can no longer feel i can justify why that would be the case. He is very likely scum.

On March 03 2013 06:23 WaveofShadow wrote:

I think any argument towards Geript at this point is completely useless at this point considering he's not actively trying to defend himself; rather he picks and chooses what he's going to ignore and what he's going to respond to and whether he feels on acting martyr-y at the moment.

According to ME, (since we didn't have a vote count too recently), Vote count is 13 for Chez and 6 for Geript right now, so that does not make him likely To get lynched in ~2.5 hours(?) At least I hope not; as I've stated before I really just don't feel like giving him what he appears to want. If he really wants to be lynched that badly he can wait a day. Chez is more important in my eyes; I don't care what Geript flips as much as I do Chez.

On March 03 2013 07:51 layabout wrote:

no it isn't, it's a bit against the spirit of the game though
+ Show Spoiler +

aqua i shouldn't be the one to point out why to you but you should think i am town.

On March 03 2013 09:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

Ur basically guaranteed hit or rbd though

Hatter just throw bombs down and lets lynch him tomorrow

On March 04 2013 02:55 layabout wrote:
Looking for "scumlips" is more or less hoping to get lucky. Why not spend your time doing something that might actually identify scum?

On March 04 2013 04:30 layabout wrote:
Because in the past 3 days you have called Toad scum* try to shed doubt on jj and forget about grush after calling him scum and give up on aqua/oo without saying why and instead of giving your read on me when questioned you have just hinted that you think i might be scum.

Also because i am getting annoyed at the thread in general. It's as if half of the thread is trying to confuse themselves and the other half isn't here.

+ Show Spoiler [*] +

On March 04 2013 04:58 The Macho Man wrote:
i have a question for everyone why did chezinu not just shoot hasy. He would have been under a lot less suspicion and it would have been seen as much more justified.

now before you go wifom wifom wifom it really isnt it would ahve been much more advantageous to kill a "town" hasy from chez's pov. When you add the whole "cheating thing with toad i think it a strong likelihood that hasy is mafia.

On March 04 2013 05:12 JungleJorge wrote:
Don't lynch geript tomorrow, lynch RO.

On March 04 2013 10:15 layabout wrote:
No sane scum would roleblock aquanim.

agree/disagree?

On March 04 2013 10:24 MilkSuckler wrote:

So Vivax CLEARLY says a good 15min before deadline, he will shoot Restraining Order (now confirmed scum)

and they decide to RB you > Vivax.... something not adding up here

On March 06 2013 00:35 layabout wrote:

then where is the nk?

it wouldn't be smart to assume that scum roleblocked but didn't nk, an sk is unlikely our medic is dead and our jailer messed up his action.

WIFOM or not aqua needs to die.

On March 06 2013 01:26 layabout wrote:
joat seems unfair on scum and a vet should have claimed a shot if they were hit.

if there is a joat and they sent a save in then they should claim it tomorrow, otherwise we lynch aqua, i would have suggested they claim today but since geript is doomed claiming now would be counter-productive

On March 07 2013 05:46 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
ho hum

leaving for work in an hour

the right people are all in the spotlight so tbh im not even worried about this game. i wont have time to post anything significant so if I die tonight, I agree with testsubject's thing on randombum but not convinced that TS is town. After coming to the conclusion that randombum is a null read, don't even post that case and find someone else you think is suspicious

he doesn't seem to suspect anyone at all which is basically impossible at this point if you're town

he just did what the vocal townie told him to do without any independence or effort into finding scum which is the goal if you're town, the goal is not to do what others (mafia) tell you to do or to appear as nonconfrontational as possible

On March 07 2013 06:10 TestSubject893 wrote:
If there is a serial killer then aqua's RB claim looks a lot more legit. If there isn't, it seems likely that scum actions didn't get submitted and he is just claiming RB for town cred.

On March 07 2013 09:47 MilkSuckler wrote:
Either way.. JJ correctly called out Wade Fell as Detective IN THE THREAD.

I wonder what the benefit of that was for town?

Wade wasnt under high suspicion then....Conveniently JJ hasnt been able to JK since Night 1 when he jailed Toad.... isnt it convenient that when Aquanim is RB'd ... JJ forgets to send in his action?

I think we need to policy lynch JJ

In fact, I am voting him now.
##Vote: JungleJorge

On March 07 2013 12:33 randombum wrote:
I don't think glurio is scum. Or at least I don't think he's scummier than a lot of people here. I've left this alone for a while because there's been a clear consensus on who to lynch and I didn't want to divert the thread, but I think it's time we lynched jcarl. He's been riding as scummy looking in the back of a lot of people's mind, but nobody has come out super strongly against him. His filter is short enough that everybody can go read it right now.
Here are the things out of his filter that I would like you to notice and reach the same conclusion as me. That he is scum.

Utter lack of commitment to reads. I've pointed this out before but, starts with a case on vayesh/vivax and drops them with minimal explanation. He then tries to push JJ because everybody thought JJ looked scummy, but now that JJ looks good his response is: + Show Spoiler +
Jcarl reads will follow wherever the town is leaning. He will also drop down his "reads" with no backing whatsoever.

+ Show Spoiler +

He throws down 5 names in a game of 15 remaining players. One of whom has since flipped town. More importantly he doesn't say why. He says he will relook, but it's been over a day since he claimed he would re-look and hasn't come back with anything. Maybe because everybody keeps ignoring me and goes after people not named jcarl. It's even more damning because literally 2 posts after he puts

+ Show Spoiler +

But he hasn't come back to do what he said he would do.

Hard defense of chezniu.
It's self evident in his filter, but he clearly defended chezniu and hard. He claims hard defending scum is a town tell because only an idiot mafia wouldn't bus his teammate when chez was clearly next to be lynched. But chez's lynch wasn't truly set in stone. If you look at the final vote-counts http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=400335&currentpage=6#105

Chez only had 13 votes. And RO (known scum) could switch at any time. Furthermore if they somehow manage to cause a no-lynch then they get an extra night kill. If they are super lucky they somehow get people to forget chez and lynch geript the next day giving them another night with 2 kills.

Point being, he tried really hard to save his scum mate, but the plan backfired so he goes: "Oh, that's not a scum tell its actually a town tell to try to push a lynch off a mafia and into a townie." I don't buy it.

Contradictory

It starts with:



Willing to sheep BH on a geript vote.

Then says after geript and hassy die

Bold mine.
Into



He is now trying to make Wade look bad, when he has been willing to sheep him and stated that he felt wades reads were correct?

On March 07 2013 13:47 jcarlsoniv wrote:
Oh look randombum, you're starting to think like a townie! A nice change of pace.

@Aquanim: What are your opinions of randombum's case on me?

On March 07 2013 18:25 Aquanim wrote:
TestSubject

General Trends









These quotes don't cover it on their own, but my impression of TestSubject's play as a whole is that TestSubject is minimizing himself and trying not to draw attention to himself. By comparison his play in NMM37 was much more assertive. @Mocsta, Glurio and WoS, you played with him in 37, do you agree with this?
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395714&user=52297

There's a general trend in the totality of TestSubject's filter this game towards self-doubt and timidity. I mean like every second post. IMO this is completely different to his meta in 37 and furthermore it is scummy; a scum player, particularly a newbie, would be expected to 'hide in the corner' and be passive.

I also don't get the impression that he's trying to learn anything from the thread. None of the few questions he ask have particular direction or make me think they're serving a purpose.

Day Two

Now there's a vote with some conviction.[/sarcasm]

And even after that he tries to swing the lynch onto Geript.

Everything Else Until Now

No real further contributions, but the overall trend in his posting continues.

I don't feel like going into depth here because everything between the Chezinu lynch and the start of today hurts my brain and basically nobody contributed much anyway.

Conclusion

He's been lurking pretty hard, hasn't expressed firm opinions on anything and his tone overall feels like he's trying to hide.

Your wagons are cool and all guys but TestSubject is scum.

On March 08 2013 05:52 layabout wrote:
Votecount:
jcarlsoniv(4): Testsubject893, WaveofShadow, glurio, randombum <--- bad lynch
glurio(3): The Macho Man, DoctorHelvetica, layabout <---- best lynch
WaveOfshadow(1): ObviousOne <---- acceptable lynch
vivax(2): JungleJorge, MilkSuckler <----fucking around with town for no good reason
Testsubject893(1): Aquanim <----fucking around with town for no good reason
charmander(1): Vivax <----fucking around with town for no good reason

not voting: grush57
We have a few hours left and a few people promising phone votes, we need to consolidate quickly.

it also says 14 alive but i only count 13

I'm not comfortable with your willingness to swing to geript given that you've already said "we must lynch chezinu today". This isn't damning on its own I agree but it certainly doesn't give me a town read on you.

How is this case "panicked"? wtf.

On March 08 2013 06:24 Aquanim wrote:

You want to show my case is terrible? How about giving some decent reads or hunting scum FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS ENTIRE GAME.

On March 08 2013 06:38 Aquanim wrote:

Nice OMGUS. You're going to have to do a lot better than that to lynch me.

Seriously though, if you want to actually convince me rather than just make noise, you're going to have to start actually doing things. Pressure your reads, make cases, whatever. Saying "Oh, I'm looking for scum you just can't see it" isn't good enough.

And claiming I want a no-lynch based on that case is bloody absurd.

On March 08 2013 06:47 Aquanim wrote:

I never said the case was bad, I said that the other points were not in as of themselves incriminating, merely indicative. I haven't seen a case yet today which doesn't have some points which aren't slam-dunks. The first point - that you've sat on your ass and done nothing of worth this game and tried to make yourself sound like you're not worth listening to - is sufficient to make the case.

If that case makes anyone here reread your filter and make a decision for themselves it wasn't useless. Besides, I have a responsibility to make a case on my top scumread and right now you're it.

You're trying to cast making a serious contribution to the thread as scummy? srs?

On March 09 2013 07:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

If scum didn't send in their night actions properly (seems highly unlikely oatsmaster wouldn't have told them directly in the scum qt/irc) how would aqua not realize that and still claim RB? are you positive it's impossible that scum missed their shot?

On March 09 2013 07:27 MilkSuckler wrote:
How is there anything to contest?

It all comes down to THERE IS NO MUTANT

Hence, where did the scum KP go if Vivax is town vig?

There was no veteran or medic; otherwise someone would have said something.
And we know there was no JK save.

Hence, why would scum WITHHOLD KP, when 2 men down to fake an SK (when its easily proven there is no SK).. thats just too stupid and I have to give Vivax and co. more credit than being stupid.

Fact: Night 2.. there was 1 kill only.
How can anyone say that scum witheld KP, AND RB'd Aquanim AND let a town vig shoot (especially Vivax who you can't predict his town night actions)

That chain of events, is so unlikely and remote, I dare say it is impossible.

On March 09 2013 07:43 MilkSuckler wrote:

At least we agree it comes down to 2 scenarios

Case A: Scum fake Vig-Hit

Case B: Scum withhold NK

Do you really think there is a 50/50 of this occurring?


I suggest you read the scum QT from NMM37.
I came up with the idea of withholding NK and pretending to be a veteran who got shot.
My coach: VE said IMMEDIATELY, dont do it.. its stupid

Mafia is a numbers game.. you need to remove town as often as possible, its not worth the gamble.


So again... do you honestly think Case B >>> Case A?

& Consider.. case A gives them the NK they need + gives vivax the town cred (which is why you so hard defending him)

On March 10 2013 04:04 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
Are there armorers in this game? You should claim. Scum with a dayvig and just having a mad hatter seems crazy to me. I'm looking at people like TS who are jumping on the Vivax bandwagon without really seeming that sure. TestSubject even wrote up a post explaining what he felt unsure about and I don't see the point in doing that unless you're actually worried about people suspecting you for voting someone we all seem to agree to vote for, I don't get it.

On March 10 2013 04:13 ObviousOne wrote:

I thought I was asking you to expand on your thought about Vivax--Jcarl relationship speculation because otherwise your post was just noise. What exactly was your vector of analysis between them? You made a statement but it left me confused (admittedly, I am confused all the time).

On March 12 2013 06:21 randombum wrote:
I want to say test-subject is scum because of his willingness to drop a one-liner to get majority on you and then lurk away. Best case scenario for scum is to get a lynch quick without having to commit which is exactly what he did there.

On March 12 2013 06:27 randombum wrote:
The thing is, I don't think Dr.H ever set the train on anybody. Lets go by the lynch order. Prom, chez, geript, gluri, and vivax.

Prom- lots of people made cases on him Dr.H was one of him, but I believe prom would have been lynched without Dr.H
Chez- pretty much all wade.
Geript- started with wade, then pretty much geript himself self-exploding.
Glurio- Started from macho man, then milk got behind it. I forgot how Dr.H fit in here
Vivax- JJ + milksuckler figuring out night action logic which pointed towards vivax

In none of them would I say Dr.H set the train. He was relatively involved in all of them, but I think they would have happened without him.

On March 12 2013 06:30 WaveofShadow wrote:
I don't think DrH was involved in any of them aside from the Prom lynch to be honest. It was the only one at all into which he actually put pages worth of effort into.
And then of course he uses his excuses "well I don't like trying after the first couple days of a game, I don't read roles etc."

My point was with regards to the Prom lynch. Yes you're probably right he would have been lynched anyway, but DrH REALLY pushed that along and refused to let any discussion of it die D1. Makes complete sense from a 3rd party player PoV.

On March 12 2013 06:33 WaveofShadow wrote:

WTF?
How do you figure? I made a huge case regarding him being bartender. I've already said I don't know who's scum, for all I know it could be you because I haven't looked at you yet. I'm not all over the place in motivation at all. I want to survive and I town to win, but it has been very difficult for me to do it alone when I get ignored the whole thread and now everyone is voting me. Of course I'm going to fucking try and discredit DrH when he sets a weak as fuck train rolling on me today, thinking he can set that and leave allowing him to douse someone else tonight.

On March 12 2013 06:35 WaveofShadow wrote:

Of course that's 3rd party motivated. 3rd party wants scum lynched as well, especially as bartender so he can sit back at night and douse a whole bunch of townies while not being under suspicion during the day. Plus he had protection on him N1 as for the big target, didn't he?

On March 12 2013 06:45 WaveofShadow wrote:

I thought about this myself and the only thing I can think of regarding that is whoever it was (even if not DrH) it was done as a gambit to make me look worse. Whoever it is is apparently very confident in their own abilities to manipulate the rest of the game in their favour after I die. DrH seems like a likely candidate for that.

On March 12 2013 06:46 WaveofShadow wrote:
I can't convince you of who I think is scum because I don't know. I can't trust a single person in this game right now so I'm completely on my own and everyone is looking to me for all the fucking answers.

On March 12 2013 07:23 GreYMisT wrote:
Day 6 Vote count

WaveofShadow (2): DoctorHelvetica, TestSubject893

DoctorHelvetica (1): WaveofShadow, randombum

randombum (1): grush57, WaveofShadow

TestSubject893 (1): WaveofShadow

Currently no one is set to be lynched. The day will end in 37 minutes!

On March 13 2013 05:41 randombum wrote:
How did I claim scum?

On March 13 2013 05:49 randombum wrote:
You jumping to scum conclusion implies your the bar-tender though.

On March 13 2013 05:58 randombum wrote:
Also, changing my vote because I don't like how test subject has 3 letters in his name.

On March 13 2013 06:12 randombum wrote:
Yeah, Whoops. Can I ask why you ignited night 5? I'm guessing you assumed milksuckler told the truth and would be shot so you might as well go out with a bang?

On March 13 2013 08:09 marvellosity wrote:
lol well done Testsubject. well deserved.

On March 13 2013 09:22 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm pretty upset at my play in this game. I can blame it as much as I want on inactivity and losing interest after a great 2-3 days but I need to get out of this habit of abandoning my good reads that come up early in the game and just sheeping other people because I'm too lazy to keep up the activity level. If I could play the way I play Day 1 throughout a whole game, I'd be a much better player. But I never do.

On March 13 2013 09:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'm also changing my policy of avoiding lurkers. I've always felt that lurkers are extremely hard to deal with and early in the game it's easy for mafia to deflect the lynch onto town lurkers versus their own but I don't care anymore. When you get to crunch time and there's nothing to analyze because half the surviving players have 1 page filters or 3 page filters full of nothing that's a terrrrrrible situation to be in

On March 13 2013 09:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote:

I've also started to think we need to punish bad town play more. People like grush57 surviving to endgame is an atrocity and having this attitude of "Well, that's just what he does" is really hurting TL Mafia as a whole. If the level of play is going to increase, resulting in better and more entertaining games, there has to be punishment for effortless and bad play and not permissiveness. If not lynches, then temporary bans or forcing these players to play with a coach/shadow in their next game.

On March 13 2013 12:28 Aquanim wrote:
feh.
Even more disappointed I couldn't push the TS lynch through. That's my responsibility in the end, I suppose, but I definitely felt nobody really read it (until maybe WoS just before his lynch).
At least I was a NK for mafia and not just collateral damage to arsonist/hatter :/
Definitely sticking to minis for the future, this was not an enjoyable experience (too much thread and too many lurkers).

On March 13 2013 13:07 Aquanim wrote:

For the record, when I wrote that case I was as convinced (if not more) that you were scum as I have ever been about anyone else in a game of mafia. You were just not assertive, at all. I appreciate you said something about finding scum by intensive conversation with people - as far as I could tell you weren't doing that either, you'd just done nothing for four days.

Obviously your view and my view of your play differ rather a lot.

Unfortunately the only real way I had to convince anyone was to say "go read his filter". And nobody could be bothered.

On March 13 2013 13:12 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I think the way TestSubject handled being accused was smart, if it was intentional.

I'm actually gonna make an audio post about this soon but basically good scum defense imo is all about figuring out what town sentiment is and determining how threatened you actually are. If you're not under threat suddenly making huge contributions and getting drawn into a 1 on 1 argument over a long period of time will bring a huge amount of attention on you.

There's always a certain group of players who make it on everyones list of probable scum but no one ever makes the time to really pressure them and one of them is almost always scum/3rd party and they often win games.

I think the absolute most important part of scum play is determining what town sentiment/direction is and subtly manipulating it. Making the towniest/most logical post is not the best thing to do. A town player could make an absolutely shut down case that makes absolute sense but that doesn't mean anyone will care. No one cared about TestSubject and that's exactly what you should want if you have that kind of role. Town should learn from the way he got away with very little pressure basically always under the guise of "ok he looks bad but we'll lynch him later" over and over again (of which I'm also guilty)

I fall into this trap. Testsubject by Day 3 was WAY more suspicious than glurio or even geript to me but I pushed the other reads instead because I felt I had more to analyze or I had figured town sentiment lied elsewhere and it's a big mistake to play that way