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On February 28 2013 09:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
1) Prom labeled him as confTown D1 because of "Starsenses"
2) Grush was egging me on to lynch Toadesstern end of day.
3) His contributions are laughable (though this is null as it's grush, but taken with other things)
1 and 2 don't make me scum. Pretty much all mafia I have played recently have sided with me as being starsenses as town indicator.
and Toad isn't confirmed town.
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I missed the explanation of your change of thought on Promethelax. My question is why didn't you see the martyring in his post? He had an opportunity to defend himself against my pressure before he went AFK before his farewell and he chose not to. Even without the time to properly do so, a townie would definitely be more aggressive in defending himself against the accusations. It was emotionless, deflated, that's what I'd expect.
On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.
MachoMan is the easy choice. A trolly player who has been mostly unclear about his intentions. Surprised he wouldn't go for Vivax, but I think Vivax is scum anyway so that would explain it. But first, let's deconstruct this gem:
Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.
The thought begins by establishing that JungleJorge thought Promethelax was scum all along. He then claims the point of his defense toward Promethelax was to get a reaction out of him.
1. Why would a townie looking to pressure someone they think is scum do so by defending them?
2. Why would a townie ever intentionally defend someone they suspect of being scum?
3. Imagine you are scum being assaulted by town. Along comes a townie to defend you. In what way does this illicit a reaction or response from you? Would you thank him? Why wouldn't you just focus your response on your accusers to try to get free? The fact that Promethelax even responded is INCREDIBLY canned and staged. After all those people hammering him, the person he suspects is the single person defending him? Idiotic. This was a staged argument imo.
"Now onto his reaction to my post: as town he would never come to the conclusion that I'm scum in that spot. What would be my interest as scum in defending a player everybody else thinks is scum? For town cred?" - This is absolute nonsense. If you are scum, you would know who is confirmed as town. The reasoning is simple, defend the mislynch then reap in the cred when the person flips green.
"I'll refrain from expanding my thoughts on macho man from now as to not derail this lynch." - Great.
Vig JungleJorge. Out of everything happening before Prom left the game, he chooses to focus his response on JJ's defense? I don't think so.
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Association. I called his reasoning retarded and he tried to explain why it was valid rather than just shrug and let me suspect him anyway. It could have been a buddying attempt at grush but...how likely do you think that is? I find it more likely that he just didn't want a grush wagon building (because grush wagons build bro)
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On February 28 2013 09:41 The Milkman wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:36 DoctorHelvetica wrote:
I'll be making a case later for vigilantes to nightkill layabout, if my reads are correct. JungleJorge must be the next to die by the lynch or from a dayvig. I can think of absolutely no other reason for his behavior. Well, JungleJorge's plan reminds me about one of my crapshoot plays in my early days but... Well, it was too abstract and wrong. Like I am not going to stop you, but I think we might have better alternatives. Just a gut I feel somewhere. As for layabout, as a person who played with him and things did get tense in the past in the games we played I am not that sold he is Mafia, but I'd be glad to read your case and talk about my doubts then, so we have something concrete to talk about.
My read on layabout was based on a misunderstanding which I corrected upon reading his filter. I feel that he's likely town after doing that. He didn't appear nervous or eager to distance himself from me after I attacked him, so that's good too.
Having gut feelings is ok, use those to guide you when you decide where you're going to look and use your brain. Then you make a decision.
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If anything
he uswd grush as a medium to build a support vivax meta case
i explained before why starsense is null at this point in time
will quote it later
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EBWOP - Layabout - I missed the explanation of your change of thought on Promethelax. My question is why didn't you see the martyring in his post? He had an opportunity to defend himself against my pressure before he went AFK before his farewell and he chose not to. Even without the time to properly do so, a townie would definitely be more aggressive in defending himself against the accusations. It was emotionless, deflated, that's what I'd expect.
Vigilante - shoot JungleJorge tonight.
On February 26 2013 18:25 JungleJorge wrote:
I believe promethelax is innocent and I may expand on that if necessary, but it should be painfully obvious to anyone reading this thread how much traction this wagon got based on very poor reasoning by most of you. Much of the "scummy" behavior you have been pointing out is exactly the opposite of what scum normally tries to accomplish when they post. I suggest you revisit prom's filter and think about why he would post some of the stuff he has posted if he was indeed scum. I plan on being more specific later, but I'll give you guys some time to figure it out by yourselves.
I would also like you to take a look on The Macho Man, as he is my best guess for scum amongst the "active" posters. Again, I'll come back to expand on this as well. See you guys in a few hours.
MachoMan is the easy choice. A trolly player who has been mostly unclear about his intentions. Surprised he wouldn't go for Vivax, but I think Vivax is scum anyway so that would explain it. But first, let's deconstruct this gem:
Promethelax is likely scum. I made that post specifically to see how he would react (as you noticed I didn't provide any reasons). Mostly my concerns were that too many people were pushing for his lynch and there was no opposition to it. Also the main reasons for the suspicion on him was some sudden change of mind or some controversial behavior, and those are normally townie traits.
The thought begins by establishing that JungleJorge thought Promethelax was scum all along. He then claims the point of his defense toward Promethelax was to get a reaction out of him.
1. Why would a townie looking to pressure someone they think is scum do so by defending them?
2. Why would a townie ever intentionally defend someone they suspect of being scum?
3. Imagine you are scum being assaulted by town. Along comes a townie to defend you. In what way does this illicit a reaction or response from you? Would you thank him? Why wouldn't you just focus your response on your accusers to try to get free? The fact that Promethelax even responded is INCREDIBLY canned and staged. After all those people hammering him, the person he suspects is the single person defending him? Idiotic. This was a staged argument imo.
"Now onto his reaction to my post: as town he would never come to the conclusion that I'm scum in that spot. What would be my interest as scum in defending a player everybody else thinks is scum? For town cred?" - This is absolute nonsense. If you are scum, you would know who is confirmed as town. The reasoning is simple, defend the mislynch then reap in the cred when the person flips green.
"I'll refrain from expanding my thoughts on macho man from now as to not derail this lynch." - Great.
Vig JungleJorge. Out of everything happening before Prom left the game, he chooses to focus his response on JJ's defense? I don't think so.
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On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum
it's not at unless prom's in his first game of mafia which I'm pretty sure he's not. To be fair I can't tell you why he's mafia at all and I doubt anyone in here will be able to provide anything like that no matter of alignment because it's Grush but I am reeeeally certain he's not town. That only leaves mafia and maybe 3rd party to me, don't you agree?
Just trust me again and you'll be happy :3
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Smurfing definitely too hard. And geript was right I see. Good on him I guess.
Alright so two words have been going through my head since the successful lynch...
TOO EASY.
I know that we're not supposed to think this way but isn't Prom a vet mafia player? Did he really think a fake discussion about RNG was going to get stuff going and create confusion? (Maybe he thought the newbies in the game would contribute to it somehow?)
Trying to look good way too hard and voting the first townie-looking guy he saw into office then disappearing for good?
I don't like it one bit, and now I have to sift through the clusterfuck at the end of D1 to try and learn anything. What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
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Don't care for the summaries of what we already know. I look forward to hearing your real thoughts after reading through it all.
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On February 28 2013 09:50 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:46 The Milkman wrote:On February 28 2013 09:42 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 09:39 Vivax wrote:
I checked fruity again, you were indeed something along 6th or 7th voting for yamato Toad. Your version also coincides with what I see in your filter.
Can we now finally go on to discuss tomorrow's lynches? I suggest Hassy for now for avoiding to give an opinion at all. JJ gives me doubts since his defence of Prom was pretty bold and I can't imagine mafia actually playing that badly, so I'll wait to see what he brings to the table in the future. if anything Hassy is a potential vig candidate, not a lynch candidate. Though again I'm actually quite confident that at least one of Macho+Grush is mafia, probably both which doesn't leave that many mafias and there still has to be a vet within team mafia. Well that vet point is a little moot given smurfs. host knows about smurfs, doesn't he? Unless you're telling me we shouldn't lynch into vets because of vets because I totally agree with that.
Well with all the smurfs you can't be sure if there is a vet behind it. For hosts it is easy to place such smurf in the mafia team, but for us to determine who could be in a such a team as the mentor is not that easy so we should drop it. Chaos Bear has not posted yet, for all we know he was LSB. As for no lynching vets - they are scummy, we kill them, nothing more applies. Also we need to watch out for a no lynch day two and I am taking a note of that because we spent a lot of time talking mayoral election and that fact might have slipped from people's attention.
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On February 28 2013 09:39 Mocsta wrote:
Y are u dodging my challenge milkman.
This is now the fourth timr i am asking for u to back up ur statement macho is easy to read.
Again. Who is macho top 2 scum reads... On February 28 2013 09:43 Mocsta wrote:
Toad... The day vig request is pointless. Thy cant shoot day1
Having said that i find it unlikely u put him under that pressure day1 as scum. Not impossible though.
Same goes to Ve. His uncertainty end of lynch was terribad
toad. Im still waiting for three reasons for grush to be scum On February 28 2013 09:46 Mocsta wrote:
Milkman im still waiting. Ur responding to everything else
This constant dodging is looking suspicious as fuck now... On February 28 2013 09:47 Mocsta wrote:
K bad timing. Sorry milkman On February 28 2013 09:48 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:46 VisceraEyes wrote:
1) Prom labeled him as confTown D1 because of "Starsenses"
2) Grush was egging me on to lynch Toadesstern end of day.
3) His contributions are laughable (though this is null as it's grush, but taken with other things) Didnt realise u were smurfing as toad... On February 28 2013 09:56 Mocsta wrote:
Fuckn phone auto log in
will paste posts to my filter when i get back to comp On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum On February 28 2013 10:04 Mocsta wrote:
If anything
he uswd grush as a medium to build a support vivax meta case
i explained before why starsense is null at this point in time
will quote it later
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On February 28 2013 10:05 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
*shrug* Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum it's not at unless prom's in his first game of mafia which I'm pretty sure he's not. To be fair I can't tell you why he's mafia at all and I doubt anyone in here will be able to provide anything like that no matter of alignment because it's Grush but I am reeeeally certain he's not town. That only leaves mafia and maybe 3rd party to me, don't you agree? Just trust me again and you'll be happy :3
I didnt trust your read on prome before.. or anyone elses.
I made my own decision on prome, and provided my own analysis.
Lets assume Grush *IS* scum.
So what.. he is so hard to fuckn read, and does nothing.. hes the ideal candidate to eliminate as the fourth or fifth scum.
Lets assume we dont know Grush *alignment* - which for me is the situation
Then the lynch is founded on nothing, other than uncertainty... thats not a solid lynch candidate for Day2 and puts to waste the efforts of lynching prome Day1.
At least you admit outright you got nothing on him.. However, i am still surprised someone of your forum-mafia pedigree is treating this as valid scum hunting though?
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On February 28 2013 10:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Smurfing definitely too hard. And geript was right I see. Good on him I guess.
Alright so two words have been going through my head since the successful lynch...
TOO EASY.
I know that we're not supposed to think this way but isn't Prom a vet mafia player? Did he really think a fake discussion about RNG was going to get stuff going and create confusion? (Maybe he thought the newbies in the game would contribute to it somehow?)
Trying to look good way too hard and voting the first townie-looking guy he saw into office then disappearing for good?
I don't like it one bit, and now I have to sift through the clusterfuck at the end of D1 to try and learn anything. What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
He just thought being in the "planners" camp will magically make him more town. But this is not a game with sandroba and other clever minds. Well scratch that, they are filthy game breakers 
If someone is a dt, be vary that your role has sanities. If there is a guy tomorrow raving about someone being scum or trying to save someone's ass the most upfront way I will do my best to burn the witch. Makes us sure of.our check and vigilantes can clean up later.
Sanities and godfathers, some people would say that is too much.
Holy there is millers and framers aswell. Well, as a dt just do not claim ever and play accordingly so we can put the little pieces together in case you die.
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On February 28 2013 10:20 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:05 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
*shrug* Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum it's not at unless prom's in his first game of mafia which I'm pretty sure he's not. To be fair I can't tell you why he's mafia at all and I doubt anyone in here will be able to provide anything like that no matter of alignment because it's Grush but I am reeeeally certain he's not town. That only leaves mafia and maybe 3rd party to me, don't you agree? Just trust me again and you'll be happy :3 I didnt trust your read on prome before.. or anyone elses. I made my own decision on prome, and provided my own analysis. Lets assume Grush *IS* scum. Show nested quote +So what.. he is so hard to fuckn read, and does nothing.. hes the ideal candidate to eliminate as the fourth or fifth scum. Lets assume we dont know Grush *alignment* - which for me is the situation Show nested quote +Then the lynch is founded on nothing, other than uncertainty... thats not a solid lynch candidate for Day2 and puts to waste the efforts of lynching prome Day1. At least you admit outright you got nothing on him.. However, i am still surprised someone of your forum-mafia pedigree is treating this as valid scum hunting though?
I have nothing? I'm about as certain about Grush as I was about prom. If there's no way he's town that's a pretty damn good reason to lynch him.
And no, if we know his alignment to be red we don't wait and lynch him 4th or 5th trying to find other mafias first... don't pull a vivax on me...
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Milk, we lynch scum as soon as we get them. Of course, there might be bigger fish to fry but we hope that the little spawns are going to be taken care of by town kp, if not, we go for the guy who we think is more likely to flip scum, so just the usual game.
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On February 28 2013 10:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Smurfing definitely too hard. And geript was right I see. Good on him I guess.
Alright so two words have been going through my head since the successful lynch...
TOO EASY.
I know that we're not supposed to think this way but isn't Prom a vet mafia player? Did he really think a fake discussion about RNG was going to get stuff going and create confusion? (Maybe he thought the newbies in the game would contribute to it somehow?)
Trying to look good way too hard and voting the first townie-looking guy he saw into office then disappearing for good?
I don't like it one bit, and now I have to sift through the clusterfuck at the end of D1 to try and learn anything. What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
One of Prome problems was that he caught my smurf the night before the game started.
We had a pre-game chat, and he signaled his desire to unleash his 'awesome' plan.
So in some aspects he had to follow through regardless of alignment.
His other problem was that he openly voiced he would be absent for a majority of Day1 cycle.
I can easily see the scum qt using this as a situation to bus him - if required. The key would be that someone had to lead the case.
This leaves:
Toad, VE, Dr.H, MilkSucker, Wade Fell ... I would think one of these is scum
I think Toad is unlikely to have cast *THAT* much suspicion early game.
I think my case showed the most thought process behind the analysis.. i think that makes me unlikely to be scum.
I think Wade Fell would not have walked through the points with Aquanim in as much detail.. making him less unlikely to be scum.. however, because of the mayor situation he could have seen it as a win-win (bus prome and gain town leadership points)
VE is interesting.. he followed on after Toad (which even though came early game, could be a guy seeing an opportunity).. To be honest, my main problems with VE revolve around his end of cycle play.. its almost as if he was building up to NOT lynch prome.. this is a problem.. i dont know him well enough to know if this is part of this normal play.
Dr.H is interesting too..his no bullshit approach I think is indicative of town... but several seem to doubt him,.. i am not sure if its because they think he is too abrasive. (so personal dislike).. or because I have wool over my eyes.. I will need to re-read him.
=======
If someone needs to be scrutinsed this cycle,I would lead on VE. especially after his sheep of toad again to list 3 points to consider grush as scum (and the 3 points were all null indicative)
*back to work.. be back later*
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On February 28 2013 10:23 Toadesstern wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:20 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 28 2013 10:05 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
*shrug* Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum it's not at unless prom's in his first game of mafia which I'm pretty sure he's not. To be fair I can't tell you why he's mafia at all and I doubt anyone in here will be able to provide anything like that no matter of alignment because it's Grush but I am reeeeally certain he's not town. That only leaves mafia and maybe 3rd party to me, don't you agree? Just trust me again and you'll be happy :3 I didnt trust your read on prome before.. or anyone elses. I made my own decision on prome, and provided my own analysis. Lets assume Grush *IS* scum. So what.. he is so hard to fuckn read, and does nothing.. hes the ideal candidate to eliminate as the fourth or fifth scum. Lets assume we dont know Grush *alignment* - which for me is the situation Then the lynch is founded on nothing, other than uncertainty... thats not a solid lynch candidate for Day2 and puts to waste the efforts of lynching prome Day1. At least you admit outright you got nothing on him.. However, i am still surprised someone of your forum-mafia pedigree is treating this as valid scum hunting though? I have nothing? I'm about as certain about Grush as I was about prom. If there's no way he's town that's a pretty damn good reason to lynch him. And no, if we know his alignment to be red we don't wait and lynch him 4th or 5th trying to find other mafias first... don't pull a vivax on me...
The 4th/5th candidate was because it reminded me of Mafia LIX with Oatsmaster.
Me n Marv were dead certain on oats...WBG (and IIRC you) were opposed.
we left him be (and chased higher profile targets like Chezinu)
in the end, a scum oats didnt do much even being the 5th guy eliminated... which is a similar sentiment to a scum grush i believe.
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i dont contribute all day and i could only find like two people calling me out whats wrong with you people
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On February 28 2013 10:35 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:23 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 10:20 MilkSuckler wrote:On February 28 2013 10:05 Toadesstern wrote:On February 28 2013 09:58 Mocsta wrote:On February 28 2013 09:49 VisceraEyes wrote:
*shrug* Pls expound why ur point 1 is indicative of scum it's not at unless prom's in his first game of mafia which I'm pretty sure he's not. To be fair I can't tell you why he's mafia at all and I doubt anyone in here will be able to provide anything like that no matter of alignment because it's Grush but I am reeeeally certain he's not town. That only leaves mafia and maybe 3rd party to me, don't you agree? Just trust me again and you'll be happy :3 I didnt trust your read on prome before.. or anyone elses. I made my own decision on prome, and provided my own analysis. Lets assume Grush *IS* scum. So what.. he is so hard to fuckn read, and does nothing.. hes the ideal candidate to eliminate as the fourth or fifth scum. Lets assume we dont know Grush *alignment* - which for me is the situation Then the lynch is founded on nothing, other than uncertainty... thats not a solid lynch candidate for Day2 and puts to waste the efforts of lynching prome Day1. At least you admit outright you got nothing on him.. However, i am still surprised someone of your forum-mafia pedigree is treating this as valid scum hunting though? I have nothing? I'm about as certain about Grush as I was about prom. If there's no way he's town that's a pretty damn good reason to lynch him. And no, if we know his alignment to be red we don't wait and lynch him 4th or 5th trying to find other mafias first... don't pull a vivax on me... The 4th/5th candidate was because it reminded me of Mafia LIX with Oatsmaster. Me n Marv were dead certain on oats...WBG (and IIRC you) were opposed. we left him be (and chased higher profile targets like Chezinu) in the end, a scum oats didnt do much even being the 5th guy eliminated... which is a similar sentiment to a scum grush i believe.
No that's not correct. Firstly because both bugs and I were fine with lynching him (if I remember correctly) and it was just about the order of people lynched. The difference was that we thought we had 3 confirmed mafias around that time in oats, Chez and BKE. We're not in that situation at all.
On February 28 2013 10:32 MilkSuckler wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 10:06 WaveofShadow wrote:
Smurfing definitely too hard. And geript was right I see. Good on him I guess.
Alright so two words have been going through my head since the successful lynch...
TOO EASY.
I know that we're not supposed to think this way but isn't Prom a vet mafia player? Did he really think a fake discussion about RNG was going to get stuff going and create confusion? (Maybe he thought the newbies in the game would contribute to it somehow?)
Trying to look good way too hard and voting the first townie-looking guy he saw into office then disappearing for good?
I don't like it one bit, and now I have to sift through the clusterfuck at the end of D1 to try and learn anything. What the fuck was wrong with all of you?
One of Prome problems was that he caught my smurf the night before the game started. We had a pre-game chat, and he signaled his desire to unleash his 'awesome' plan. So in some aspects he had to follow through regardless of alignment. His other problem was that he openly voiced he would be absent for a majority of Day1 cycle. I can easily see the scum qt using this as a situation to bus him - if required. The key would be that someone had to lead the case. This leaves:Toad, VE, Dr.H, MilkSucker, Wade Fell ... I would think one of these is scum Show nested quote +I think Toad is unlikely to have cast *THAT* much suspicion early game.
I think my case showed the most thought process behind the analysis.. i think that makes me unlikely to be scum.
I think Wade Fell would not have walked through the points with Aquanim in as much detail.. making him less unlikely to be scum.. however, because of the mayor situation he could have seen it as a win-win (bus prome and gain town leadership points)
VE is interesting.. he followed on after Toad (which even though came early game, could be a guy seeing an opportunity).. To be honest, my main problems with VE revolve around his end of cycle play.. its almost as if he was building up to NOT lynch prome.. this is a problem.. i dont know him well enough to know if this is part of this normal play.
Dr.H is interesting too..his no bullshit approach I think is indicative of town... but several seem to doubt him,.. i am not sure if its because they think he is too abrasive. (so personal dislike).. or because I have wool over my eyes.. I will need to re-read him. ======= If someone needs to be scrutinsed this cycle, I would lead on VE. especially after his sheep of toad again to list 3 points to consider grush as scum (and the 3 points were all null indicative) *back to work.. be back later*
Noone voted prom because of the rnd-thingie... that could have been something a townie did and in fact is probably more likely a towntell than a mafiatell on itself. People voted him because he slipped, showing that his supposed to be intentions didn't lign up with his explanations of his intentions. In fact they completly excluded each other like someone saying "I'm trying to extinguish the fire!" while holding a lighter and a torch in his hands.
Anyways, there is absolutely no reason for going on a witchhunt when the most likely explanation is that everyone in that list is just town. Actually no idea about Wade, haven't read what he said about prom but we're going after people who are looking bad for looking bad, not after people looking bad for looking to good...
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No Toad, that doesn't explain why VE wanted to get credit for Prome instead of you. It doesn't even make sense that he's faulting you for trying to gain town cred when he's doing the same thing.
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EPT
