EPTI can't really ignore it when trying to analyze him so I'm ignoring him altogether and won't help on that matter. I shouldn't bring it in the thread because I'd consider that to be unfair.
TL Mafia LX - Page 8
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
I can't really ignore it when trying to analyze him so I'm ignoring him altogether and won't help on that matter. I shouldn't bring it in the thread because I'd consider that to be unfair. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:13 The Macho Man wrote: i was there i remember dont understand why your bringing it up because who cares. who do you want to lynch if not me? because you said I claimed scum with it, which indicated that you think I wouldn't post something like that as town, which is wrong and you know it? If it's not you probably Grush, maaaaybe Chez but Chez would be a gutread, mostly based on balance issues and the knowledge that I'm in fact not mafia (as in: I did not bus prom). I'd rather see you lynched though. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:24 iamperfection wrote: god damn flood control i agree with you chez he seems to not want to put information out there at all even in his own weird way seems like he is just crying. yeah but that's what chez does no matter of alignment. I don't think it's possible to read Chez anyways and the only possible way to go about a Chez lynch is by process of elimination. With VE and BC flipping town, laya+DrH probably being town (I know I am town) that only leaves chez for now and he's one of the guys who isn't influentual at all, no matter of alignment, which explains the easy lynch on prom. If someone like VE or me would have been mafia we would have had a shitstorm d1 with the intention to either save prom or to make it as hard as possible for town to read the thread. Not saying we didn't btw, because with what was going on d1 it wasn't easy to follow up at all and I know at least one guy said something like "one out of VE /Toad has to be mafia" (lynch that guy, whoever it was btw, unless he looks really townish, especially with the VE shot and RB on me). But I'd say it's pretty unlikely for me to shoot VE if I'm mafia in this situation. I don't think mafia expected VE to cool down and finish in a "toad probably not mafia" post and wanted to shoot him to guide the mislynch onto me with a modconfirmed town-VE who was raging mad about me and called for my lynch, a (probably) mafia RB on me (I really don't think someone would use a jail on me for protection instead of other people like VE / dr.H / laya / BC...) because I did that in fruity as mafia to make myself look townish. That's obviously all useless to you guys because it works on the assumption that I'm town, which you can't know but that's some of the reasoning for what I'm saying. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:40 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Stop pretending that the bus idea is the only point against you. Toadesstern, you need to explain right this very second exactly (or as close to exactly as you can within the rules) how your roleblock was phrased. 6. Posting or sharing any PM you receive from a host. What I said is all that I'm allowed to say I think: I was roleblocked. Give me an example of what makes me scummy then because all I read is stuff like this: On March 02 2013 00:41 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I'm trying to understand why town Toad gets that much confidence 2 hours into the day, so much that he is going to talk about nothing else except how awesome his case is, how everyone else is a sheep and how the flip is going to without a doubt confirm him to be town how can you also early discredit ve/layabout for sheeping you then after the lynch spout that they are confirmed town only because promethelax was mafia how does being right about something confirm your alignment which again is just "toad looking to good to be town" for the first part, and the 2nd part has nothing to do with discrediting but with pointing out that they were on it later than I did and only agreed to it after I posted it. That's quite an important difference although it still makes them town, as I already explained and you're ignoring it. Anyways, got to fetch up my mom, see you in 30 minutes. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:52 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Not true. It's the way you handled your read. Forget that you were right, for a moment, the way that you acted that day after calling out Prom was unacceptable and extremely anti-town. I asked to be replaced out because people kept calling me mafia for reasons that are usally towntraits for me, as already shown multiple times while wrongly labeling it mafia-trait and when showing it just answering "well, you know about your meta, you might play like your town meta to screw with us". Again, there's nothing I can say against bullshit like that, NOTHING and it got me mad to a point that I asked to be replaced out. Yes I was rubbing it in to show some people how bad they are. Again, I'm still waiting for a single thing that just shows that I'm supposed to be mafia, you keep saying there's dozen of such things but I haven't seen a single one so far. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 01:05 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Okay. Either Toadesstern or Vivax is a confirmed liar and is mafia. There are only two possible roleblocks in the game. One of which has flavor: The mafia roleblock has no flavor. So, I'm inclined to think Toadesstern is the liar here and we move forward on a lynch. If Toadesstern flips town (shame on him in that case), then we kill Vivax tonight. Does that work for everyone? You linked a quote telling people that the target won't be notified about a SAFE. God I should have ignored you and not VE... | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 01:11 DoctorHelvetica wrote: 1. Your case against Prom never evolves and is mostly built around his RNG plan not promoting good discussion, much like the Pardoner plan you submitted despite admitting it wasn't a good idea 1) Wrong. My case against Prom was about him scumslipping and he did. It had nothing to do with his RNG suggestion, as already mentioned 3 times. 2. You put no effort into scumhunting for the rest of the day, only attacking people who agreed with you and claiming towncred for yourself. Since it was so early and Prom had yet to flip that's a bit odd 2) It was a hard scumslip, there was no need to get more distraction. I still kept on scumhunting, I just didn't post it in the thread to not distract people from lynching prom 3. Still curious how you moved from VE/Layabout/Me being sheep on you (despite the fact that I built my case on Prom without ever having read your posts) to being confirmed town 3) Sheeping or not has nothing to do with someone being mafia or town. Someone voting mafia 2 hours into the day has everything to do with someone being mafia or town. 4. There is no way you actually believe that every single person who accuses mafia rightly on Day 1 is confirmed town, you are not that stupid 4)I never said that, I said people who figured out a scumslip 2 hours into the day are usually not mafia 5. After calling out Prom in 2 posts, you made no attempt to put pressure anywhere else, no real attempt to put further pressure on him, only arguing about how awesome and town you are 5)There was no need to put pressure on anyone, he was confirmed mafia the moment he slipped, the only thing of interesst was making sure everyone knows about it and lynches him 6. Either you or Vivax is a confirmed liar right now 6) Wrong as already pointed out 7. Didn't want mayor cuz no bodyguards even though you're apparently the best town player in this game and already a huge target, why not take that role to guarantee VE isn't elected and lynches you. Also said you'd only want mayor to lynch a vet 7)Didn't want mayor because I'm the fucking medic who protected VE last night, the guy who got shot if it wasn't for the roleblock and didn't want to give mafia any reason to shoot me as medic 8. Horrible bullshit case on Milksuckler showing early aggression and bad logic, attack him for sheeping when the opinion is a very common and popular one amongst TL Mafia players, one that likely every player has an opinion on and isn't really indicative of alignment either way. I also disagree with the idea that we should never D1 lynch vets but I don't think it's scummy to agree with that and nobody else should either 8) I never had a case on Milksuckler and I never, ever called him mafia. Care to show me? 9. The particular phrasing of "Prom will confirm me" is troubling, suggests prior knowledge of his alignment 9) He was confirmed red after the slip, of course I have knowledge of his alignment if he scumslips 10. Still no real case against grush, your accusations on machoman are based on a metaread that you're not providing evidence for so for players like me who don't know who iamp is this is not doing a good job of moving the town 10) I started explaining multiple times and everytime I started peopel ended up saying "well whatever, shut up noone's listening to anything you say anyways 11. The scummiest thing Prom did was in his farewell post (attacking JJ with logic near impossible for town to use) which you glossed over, that was the point when I and everyone else became supremely confident he was scum because everything before that was about as good as it gets for a Day 1 early case, which is not very good at all. I don't believe you can be that good and that confident THAT early simply because there wasn't enough evidence at the time to warrant it 11) The scummiest thing prom did was fucking scumslipping 1 hour into the day, which you still haven't understood. only 1 of these points depends on you being "too good" so i hope that helps Good job getting the medic who lynched mafia d1 because of a scumslip he figured out himself lynched. The medic who correctly protected VE n1, I might add. This goes to everyone out here who isn't Dr.H: Lynch me, Dr.H will keep on trying to lynch me for whatever reason although it was already shown that there is in fact nothing that makes me even slightly mafia looking except for misconceptions about my meta that have already been shown to be wrong multiple times by links to older games people ignore. Once I flip blue listen to what VE and I said. When VE calmed down a little he made a lot of sense. I'd say the best course of action is to look at what VE and I said, look for similarities and lynch those people first. Don't listen to what Dr.H says. If he keeps getting in the way lynch him/shoot him, he'll flip town and proceed lynching mafia afterwards. You've been given everything to solve this game easily. Use that information | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
Look at what he posted and think about it instead of just reading it and thinking "yeah". Take [quote[7. Didn't want mayor cuz no bodyguards even though you're apparently the best town player in this game and already a huge target, why not take that role to guarantee VE isn't elected and lynches you. Also said you'd only want mayor to lynch a vet[/quote] for example. Ignore the reasoning I gave because you don't know if I'm telling the truth about me being medic. Now answer me one simple question: Why is Toad trying to get VE as mayor, VE who tries to lynch Toad a scumtrait? Why would mafia-Toad try to do that? It isn't alignment indicating AT ALL and it was already pointed out to be flawed multiple times, as was everything else (I quoted this one because it doesn't require you to read older games) It's just that Dr.H sees it, doesn't understand it => Toad has to be mafia which is bullshit. Again, listen to what VE said at the end of n1 and what I said later on. If you think JJ is town listen to everything he says. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 02:27 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Also, I agreed with your initial logic on Prom. It wasn't a scumslip. You're already giving up so go ahead and die then, you're useless now. Here is your call out of Prom: What in that is a scumslip? You attacked his logic like anyone else but it wasn't anything a terrible terrible townie hasn't done before. that was when I saw his mayoral campaign and thought he's impersonating Vivax... I instantly dropped it when I found the real post. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2013 09:34 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Posting IRC/Whatever logs about you talking with another player about how town you were Saying you were talking with other people on skype and how they all knew you were town and thought we were stupid That's not ok. In fact I was going to quit the game if you weren't modkilled for it. Those 3 lines were with Marv, not with hassy so with people not playing the game which should be fine in general. Posting that might be a different issue but I don't think it's against any rules to be honest. I can post old pm's with other people in games as well. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2013 09:39 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Posting it is absolutely crossing the line and violates the spirit and rules of the game, I feel, in a very serious manner. Don't do that. I've seen people posting out of game stuff like that before and it never was a problem. No matter if we're talking about stuff like irc logs to prove someone is actively lurking and not just buisy, or showing posts someone did on TL outside the mafia thread to show the same or whatever else, or posting old pm's between people from older games / discussions about other games. All happened before and it's not against the rules though I do admit I made it to the rules for the games I'm hosting that posting out of thread "logs" isn't allowed anymore, no matter if mason logs, irc logs or whatever else. In this game it was fine. I don't see a problem with what you're referring to at all. If you want to talk about how I was a dick to you / VE on purpose I totally agree, that shouldn't have happened and I apologize for that. I don't think I was cheating at all though. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2013 09:47 GreYMisT wrote: You then shared the information with the thread though. I would not have pursued a ban had you just ignored hassy or not posted about what had happened, but you felt compeled to "save him" by posting why you had a town read. This violates the integrety of the game and is cheating. I never did that oO | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 02 2013 00:18 Toadesstern wrote: About hassy: The reason I'm ignoring him is that he kind of slipped while playing dota yesterday and I've got information I should not have. Around deadline I said something along the lines of "lol, they shot VE, not even mad" while skyping with him and Wiggles (as always when playing dota) not thinking about it and well Hassy answered something that either was a blatant towntell or a blatant mafiatell for me. Not going to tell which one. I can't really ignore it when trying to analyze him so I'm ignoring him altogether and won't help on that matter. I shouldn't bring it [the information I have] in the thread because I'd consider that to be unfair. That's everything I said about hassy in the thread. That's all I said about Hassy. How is that pushing in any direction. I made it as neutral as possible. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
On March 13 2013 09:54 DoctorHelvetica wrote: I think what you said about Hassy was commendable tbh although I would have talked about it with a mod first. It was using those logs and referencing outside conversations to try to convince people that you are town. Games need to be insulated. thing is, Gremyst is saying I'm getting banned for using my information on painting hassy green which I did not do imo, you are saying I'm getting banned because I did something that is fine by the rules and done in pretty much every single game and if it's not needs to be added to the rules as no posting out of thread information and I'm saying I'm fine with being banned for being a dick. | ||
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