EPT##Vote: jcarlsoniv
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
##Vote: jcarlsoniv | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 07 2013 18:25 Aquanim wrote: TestSubject General Trends These quotes don't cover it on their own, but my impression of TestSubject's play as a whole is that TestSubject is minimizing himself and trying not to draw attention to himself. By comparison his play in NMM37 was much more assertive. @Mocsta, Glurio and WoS, you played with him in 37, do you agree with this? http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=395714&user=52297 In NMM37 I claimed tracker in what was effectively my first post. You can imagine that being the obvious night target might change how I play. On top of that, the I for the most part disagreed with what some of the town players were saying in that game and felt the need to steer public opinion. I am much more in alignment with most players reads in this game and haven't found a need to be as vocal to get the suspicion onto the right people. There's a general trend in the totality of TestSubject's filter this game towards self-doubt and timidity. I mean like every second post. IMO this is completely different to his meta in 37 and furthermore it is scummy; a scum player, particularly a newbie, would be expected to 'hide in the corner' and be passive. I also don't get the impression that he's trying to learn anything from the thread. None of the few questions he ask have particular direction or make me think they're serving a purpose. Show me one example of a question that fits this description. You're just making things up to support your conclusion. Day One + Show Spoiler + TestSubject spent a LOT of time day one talking about a) Pardoner policy and b) setting up the election at the end of the day, both of which are nice and safe topics for scum. He also threw a bunch of noncommittal doubt on DoctorH: On February 27 2013 09:35 TestSubject893 wrote: I've been working all day and just now got caught up on the thread. Here's what I've got. Promethelax is still my top scum read and I will be voting for a mayor that wants to kill him. Jungle Jorge and ObviousOne, in that order, are next on my scum list. I think we're placing a little too much trust in DoctorHelvetica. It seems like some people are treating him as nearly confirmed town, and frankly he's not even close to that in my book. Moreover, I'm afraid that should DrH get either of the elected roles, his perception as confirmed town will only be furthered, without him doing anything more pro-town. Most of his cred has come from telling people they aren't scumhunting enough and how great scumhunting is, and while these things are pro-town, its not something that's hard to fake. On top of that, the only contribution he's made on the scumhunting front is to really amplify the pressure on Prome. While again, this is great, the fact that he seems to be distancing himself from it slightly in this post + Show Spoiler + On February 27 2013 04:37 DoctorHelvetica wrote: Weird that you chose to respond to that specifically. Maybe not, maybe I'm being paranoid. And yes, I'm still pushing Prome for the day. He basically martyred so he should die. I'm working from 1-10 PST tonight so unfortunately I'm not gonna be able to be here to push him. Since all discussion is built on this foundation of lynching Prome, it's the best outcome for us right now. At least for Day 1. I would never say to lynch for information, I absolutely believe he is scum but there is no sense in acting on hunches and getting distracted. Don't fuck it up guys keep focused on the goal of finding scum. Everything else comes second. I think it's likely that DrH is town, but lets make him prove that to us before we show him so much trust. Hopefully, we've gotten it right with Prome, in which case DrH will be deserving of the town cred he seems to currently have. With the this in mind, I'm going to vote for someone who is going lynch Prome, but whose election I think will not stunt discussion and critique of the mayor himself. ##Vote: VisceraEyes I know, I know, there's a distinction between "confirmed town" and "likely town" but still this post is just pointless. Since you already had my filter open, how about you take a look at the posts I already made addressing this. If those aren't enough for you I'm happy to add more, but I'm not going to waste my time repeating myself. Night One + Show Spoiler + On March 01 2013 14:34 TestSubject893 wrote: Ok, so I rewrote this post like 5 times and changed my mind back and forth, and at the end of it all I ended up not coming up with as great of thoughts as I had originally thought I had when it was all coming togther. I'll start with the basics I suppose. I agree with DrH on Toad. He's the top of the list for me. From there I feel like one of either Aqua or OO is scum. I was gonna write up some reasons on why its OO, but when I was doing that I kind of talked myself into thinking that its Aqua. After that grush is looking suspicious to me, but he's in that category of players where everyone talks about their crazy meta and how it needs to be taken into account and I'm not currently taking it into account, so take that for what its worth. The bulk of my thoughts were gonna be about how when I read Chez asking the questions about the 3rd parties and claiming he didn't know how to add, I thought for sure he was a 3rd party just putting on a show. Because immediately after that WF jumped on him as scum I thought that he has the same read as me and was mafia trying to get the 3rd party lynched. This all still added up even after Chez shot if he is town because mafia wouldn't know for sure he wasn't 3rd party in the time in between. When I was writing it all up I changed my mind on it. WF just isn't scummy looking enough to me outside of that, so I ended up scrapping it. It is something that really jumped out at me though, so if WF becomes the center of attention later, its something we could relook at. This post. Originally, I (and I believe many other people) got a town read on TestSubject from this post. In hindsight, I can't see why saying he doesn't have any decent reads makes him town. Maybe it's slightly better than not posting anything at all, but "oh shit sorry guys I couldn't come up with anything" isn't really good enough to make him town just based on this. His statement that "one of Aqua or OO is scum" doesn't have any firm reasoning behind it, which he admits later. Same as day 1. I've explained already, and am happy to explain more, but I'm not going to repeat myself. Day Two Now there's a vote with some conviction.[/sarcasm] And even after that he tries to swing the lynch onto Geript. How on earth is this trying to swing the lynch to geript. I say in the post you quoted that a no-lynch is concerning to me, and again in my filter you can see that its my opinion that a lynch of chez or geript would have been fine with me, but I want to avoid a no-lynch at all costs. You're putting words in my mouth and drawing ridiculous conclusions. Everything Else Until Now No real further contributions, but the overall trend in his posting continues. I don't feel like going into depth here because everything between the Chezinu lynch and the start of today hurts my brain and basically nobody contributed much anyway. What trend? You haven't established one. Geript was shitting up the thread for all of D3, and honestly I'm not sure what you expected me to post. How is this a mark against me? Association with Restraining Order Is this a joke? Of course I don't have an explanation. Are you gonna ask vivax why he got the same response here as prom who flipped scum? How about the one that really does stick out: the maybe on layabout? Looks like RO is trying to be ready to take credit for knowing layabout was scum without drawing attention to him. BETTER LYNCH LAYABOUT NOW, AMIRITE? So your point here is that I had a null read on RO? Yeah, I did, you caught me. He wasn't really a high priority to lynch for me. Better kill everyone who thought that way, all dozen of us. Conclusion He's been lurking pretty hard, hasn't expressed firm opinions on anything and his tone overall feels like he's trying to hide. Your wagons are cool and all guys but TestSubject is scum. This case is entirely baseless and frankly, I don't see how it could be anything but an attempt to distract town from reaching a majority before the day is over. For now my vote stays on jcarl because we need to get one of the scummy players to 8. Should we need to I'd be glad to switch my vote to the clearly panicked Aquanim. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 08 2013 05:52 layabout wrote: Votecount: jcarlsoniv(4): Testsubject893, WaveofShadow, glurio, randombum <--- bad lynch glurio(3): The Macho Man, DoctorHelvetica, layabout <---- best lynch WaveOfshadow(1): ObviousOne <---- acceptable lynch vivax(2): JungleJorge, MilkSuckler <----fucking around with town for no good reason Testsubject893(1): Aquanim <----fucking around with town for no good reason charmander(1): Vivax <----fucking around with town for no good reason not voting: grush57 We have a few hours left and a few people promising phone votes, we need to consolidate quickly. it also says 14 alive but i only count 13 jcarl is voting for WoS, that makes 14. The fact that the leading candidate only has 4 is a huge problem with 3 hours til the deadline, guys. Anyone whose vote is on someone other than jcarl or glurio right now need to either get really convincing really fast or move your vote. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
I'm not comfortable with your willingness to swing to geript given that you've already said "we must lynch chezinu today". This isn't damning on its own I agree but it certainly doesn't give me a town read on you. And this too is BS. Nowhere do I say "Chez has to be lynched today". I say what amounts to "Chez has to be lynched". How is responding positively to someone saying "If we're going to kill both Chez and geript, maybe we should kill geript first" contradictory to this? The rest of that posts amounts to you saying "Yeah, those are good reason for doing stuff, but do you know who really wants to be able to explain their actions? SCUM!". Your case is bad; trying to stick with it even though I've shown you its bad is a scumtell. How is this case "panicked"? wtf. The case isn't panicked; you are. There is no reason to make such a terrible case unless you're trying to distract town. If it weren't 3 hours before the lynch with no votes on you, I'd demand we kill you now. Instead I guess I'll have to make due with demanding we kill you tomorrow. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 08 2013 06:24 Aquanim wrote: You want to show my case is terrible? How about giving some decent reads or hunting scum FOR THE FIRST TIME THIS ENTIRE GAME. Are you telling me the only reason you think I'm scum is because other people have written more cases than me? If this is the only indicator to you, why is grush not 1000 times scummier? | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
If the entirety of your read is based on that one point alone, why write that whole case? I'll tell you why: to distract the town and cause a no-lynch. Aquanim is scum. Lynch him D5. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 08 2013 06:38 Aquanim wrote: Nice OMGUS. You're going to have to do a lot better than that to lynch me. Seriously though, if you want to actually convince me rather than just make noise, you're going to have to start actually doing things. Pressure your reads, make cases, whatever. Saying "Oh, I'm looking for scum you just can't see it" isn't good enough. And claiming I want a no-lynch based on that case is bloody absurd. That case is bad and you know its bad. You've practically admitted that the case itself is irrelevant. Why post a useless case if not to distract us? | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 08 2013 06:47 Aquanim wrote: I never said the case was bad, I said that the other points were not in as of themselves incriminating, merely indicative. I haven't seen a case yet today which doesn't have some points which aren't slam-dunks. The first point - that you've sat on your ass and done nothing of worth this game and tried to make yourself sound like you're not worth listening to - is sufficient to make the case. If that case makes anyone here reread your filter and make a decision for themselves it wasn't useless. Besides, I have a responsibility to make a case on my top scumread and right now you're it. You're trying to cast making a serious contribution to the thread as scummy? srs? What I'm telling you is that I don't see it as a serious contribution. I'm sure you knew that already though, so I'm not sure why you phrased it that way. I think this discussion is over, we're both just saying the same things at this point and there are votes to consolidate. I'm heading out. I'll monitor the thread from my phone as the deadline comes up if I'm still gone then. + Show Spoiler + I'm sure aqua won't miss this opportunity to take a cheap shot at me. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
Since it looks like its been decided, I'm gonna go ahead and stack my vote on glurio, even though I'd prefer jcarl, just to prevent any funny business at the deadline. | ||
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TestSubject893
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TestSubject893
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TestSubject893
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TestSubject893
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 09 2013 07:24 DoctorHelvetica wrote: If scum didn't send in their night actions properly (seems highly unlikely oatsmaster wouldn't have told them directly in the scum qt/irc) how would aqua not realize that and still claim RB? are you positive it's impossible that scum missed their shot? Your first questions amounts to WIFOM, so I'm not sure what you expect me to say. I think he could make that claim even if they messed up their actions specifically because of the questions you're asking now. I think that its unlikely enough that a town would have been saved from a shot and not claimed by now that, yes, we can call it "impossible" if you'd like. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 09 2013 07:27 MilkSuckler wrote: How is there anything to contest? It all comes down to THERE IS NO MUTANT Hence, where did the scum KP go if Vivax is town vig? There was no veteran or medic; otherwise someone would have said something. And we know there was no JK save. Hence, why would scum WITHHOLD KP, when 2 men down to fake an SK (when its easily proven there is no SK).. thats just too stupid and I have to give Vivax and co. more credit than being stupid. Fact: Night 2.. there was 1 kill only. How can anyone say that scum witheld KP, AND RB'd Aquanim AND let a town vig shoot (especially Vivax who you can't predict his town night actions) That chain of events, is so unlikely and remote, I dare say it is impossible. They could have forgotten to submit their actions to oatmaster, just like JJ did.... | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
On March 09 2013 07:43 MilkSuckler wrote: At least we agree it comes down to 2 scenarios Case A: Scum fake Vig-Hit Case B: Scum withhold NK Do you really think there is a 50/50 of this occurring? I suggest you read the scum QT from NMM37. I came up with the idea of withholding NK and pretending to be a veteran who got shot. My coach: VE said IMMEDIATELY, dont do it.. its stupid Mafia is a numbers game.. you need to remove town as often as possible, its not worth the gamble. So again... do you honestly think Case B >>> Case A? & Consider.. case A gives them the NK they need + gives vivax the town cred (which is why you so hard defending him) So what you're saying is that they can't afford to not shoot someone at night from a numbers perspective, so they obviously shot one of their own teammates instead? That's not sound reasoning. What I've had in my head is a situation where they forget to submit to oat and then try to make the best of it by claiming the RB. With that said, I'm starting to be convinced that your situation is more likely the more I think about. There's some time before we have to vote, so I'll try to put a little more thought into it. | ||
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TestSubject893
United States774 Posts
##Vote:Vivax | ||
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