EPTyou no scare i no scare
This Town Ain't Big Enough Mafia
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thrawn2112
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you no scare i no scare | ||
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no scare! | ||
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On February 20 2013 12:50 HiroPro wrote: I'm not going to start until at least Sunday. Too busy before then. awwww..... + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i.qkme.me/3s4t7c.jpg) | ||
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waits for hilarity to ensue | ||
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lol, clearly this town ain't big enough. that much is already apparent | ||
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On February 25 2013 09:58 Acrofales wrote: Those first posts are a bitch to write, aren't they? Way to say nothing! What do you think of yamato and cora? I'm not willing to commit to a read on cora yet. Nothing he's posted so far is all that alignment indicative, coming from him. As for yamato... maybe slighty town? I disagree with the logic behind nearly all of what he's said so far but he's acting in a townish manner. Iamp could be scum. All he's done is drop off a town read and comment on how useless the thread is. | ||
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On February 25 2013 10:58 Oatsmaster wrote: I would not say you were very mannered in LIX. And suddenly marv turns on the SERIOUS MODE. Its not scummy, its just not alignment indicative as oh good plan = town. so Oats, why so scared to attack marv? | ||
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On February 25 2013 11:19 Oatsmaster wrote: In this statement, I meant that his policy post is not alignment indicative. I still think he is scummy, but that post isnt a reason why. I thought you said you didn't like his policy post..... anyways.... so the reason you think he is scum comes down to rudeness? is that the full scope of your read on him? | ||
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On February 25 2013 11:21 Oatsmaster wrote: This isnt rude in the sense that you are shitting on him for being a bad player, its rude in the sense that you are poking fun at him for having bad reads. I think you're reaching pretty far to make this point. I really don't see the distinction between rudeness and politeness you're suggesting exists, nor do I see how it relates to his alignment. I don't expect marv to adhere to being either rude/polite as town/scum. | ||
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On February 25 2013 11:26 Oatsmaster wrote: Anyway its pointless to pursue this further on this point, I dont think its a very strong scumtell for marv, but it isnt a towntell. Which makes me suspicous. Also hapa get in the game, thrawn and marv just beat you to the exact same point. the part where "not a town tell" + "not a scum tell" = "makes me suspicious" iamp. enlighten me about this long history we have that enables you to read me as town so easily in this specific game | ||
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On February 25 2013 11:34 cDgCorazon wrote: I know I should really shut up about Yamato but: Why are you guys getting on each other for having such early town reads and not get on Yamato for having such early scum reads? townies are suspicious and it's very easy for them to come up with a scum read. scum know who all town are so it's very easy for them to give a town read. giving nothing but town reads = lack of suspicion = scummy | ||
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On February 25 2013 12:05 Acrofales wrote: You seem to know him quite a bit better than I do. Please explain to me how this is different from when he's town? His town is similar to this game (i'm not familiar with his scum meta) but in this game, he doesn't really seem to be trying to contribute. He seems uncooperative. Also, I don't like how liberally he's been throwing out town reads, especially when those town reads are backed up by extremely simplistic explanations. | ||
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***** I just read the first few pages of his filter in themed and he is helpful in that game despite not always explaining reads. In this game, I get a "fuck off don't question me" vibe from his posts. | ||
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He's been playing something like a peaceable negotiator.. he's entered several conversations but he takes very neutral sounding positions. "Peaceable" meaning not willing to take stances and call people scummy. He's been mostly arguing logic and the scum reads he gives are pretty weak. For example this post: + Show Spoiler + On February 25 2013 12:35 Acrofales wrote: But he's had that attitude all game. Thrawn thought he was scum for it, you think he's town for it. I have no clue, I'd say he's playing pretty similar to the start of CT, where he was town, but I thought he could be scum. He is aggressive and doesn't give a shit. However, the reasons I doubt him are still the same: he gives no reasons, isn't forceful about his reads and has this post: This post is pointless, but a suspicious mind might think why even bother bringing it up? How does Iamp know that good players are likely town, rather than scum? I don't say anything of it is very conclusive, but given that you and thrawn reach different conclusions based on the same meta, one of you must be wrong and getting some more info on why you think the meta makes him town is important. That's a lot of words/thoughts to write without coming to any real conclusions. He's got an inconclusive read on iamp, and says one of hapa or thrawn might have extra information they're using to make differing meta reads on iamp. Since hapa is calling iamp town, thrawn is calling him scum, that means that the only scenarios where that original statement makes sense is either if hapa is mafia and iamp is town, or if thrawn and iamp are both scum. But Acro doesn't mention any of this....... I suspect because he hasn't actually thought through it to realize how silly it is. It doesn't seem like a real read that a townie would have. | ||
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thrawn2112
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the point is that it's a really strange argument to present, it leads to a (likely) singular conclusion that he doesn't mention, and the whole pretense (1 of hapa/thrawn is town and the other is scum) isn't based on anything. He's assuming that one of us is wrong because we're town, and the other one is right because they're scum.. why would he use this assumption as his starting point? | ||
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and it does seem weird that hapa is his scum read yet he's unwilling/unmotivated to lynch him | ||
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i'm pretty sure that iamp/yamato/oats are town I think there is probably scum among hapa/acro and i think it's way more likely that acro is scum there are a few low contribution players I don't like but chief among them is zarepath | ||
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On February 26 2013 13:08 Keirathi wrote: Right (well, not exactly, because yamato and Adam weren't fighting, just taking a strong stance that differed from thread sentiment). But he's using the "scum don't want to be in the spotlight" sentiment to make HIMSELF a townie. imo adam wasn't really putting himself in the spotlight the way yamato was besides, this line of reasoning is pretty weak. anything else to say about adam? | ||
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On February 26 2013 13:36 Acrofales wrote: Out of everything that has been asked from you, your contribution is to butt into an ongoing discussion that has nothing much to do with you, to throw in a soft defense of adam here? How about you explain your scumreads instead? I'm not soft defending adam. Kei is making a real weak case | ||
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thrawn2112
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Here's the summation of his thoughts on his main scumread, thrawn: On February 26 2013 11:01 Keirathi wrote: No solid reads yet. I'm interested in thrawn, obviously. The town thrawn I know is logical and takes his time to look at all sides of the situation, and I just haven't seen that from him this game. He's just been flying by the seat of his pants (iamp scum, no town, no scum again! Hapa should be a dueler tomorrow!) with little to no reasoning for his "reads". His explanations for why thrawn's scum are almost entirely meta based. He did ask thrawn this question: On February 26 2013 02:47 Keirathi wrote: So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other? That series of questions is so bland/boring and non confrontational that I have a hard time imagining that there's any real purpose behind it. Here's what he said about adam: On February 26 2013 12:02 Keirathi wrote: Oh yea, I forgot about this: Adam Adam came out all guns blazing with his "I'll duel someone when I feel its appropriate!" stance. But this passage of quotes is interesting, because he dropped his minor scumread on Cora because Cora's arguments made Adam look town. He doesn't care that Cora's argument is anti-town itself (Cora was interested in lynching yam or Adam because they were "disruptive" or whatever, not because he necessarily thought they were scum), only that he can use Cora's response to identify himself as town. That suggests to me that the whole bravado thing at the start of the game could be an act, because Adam was already thinking of how he could get town cred from his stance even before Cora pointed out his problems with it. At best it's a very tenuous association to make. There are many more things worthy of suspicion so far and kei focusing on that is strange. So all of Kei's suspicions in the game total to "thrawn doesn't look like town thrawn" and the weird point about adam. He's not scumhunting i.e. he's scum | ||
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Acro my read on you right now is not as strong as it was, but I still think you are being overly wordy without having real motivation behind your words. Balance-wise when I first looked at the player list I sorta auto-assumed that one of marv/hapa/yourself/maybe kei has to be scum. So when marv died... that's where the statement about "either hapa or acro" cam from. As for Iamp... nothing really changed per se.. I woke up, read his filter and decided I don't like him as scum | ||
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thrawn2112
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You have a scumread on me, but I say the only way I'm calling a duel is if I get to duel a scumread. So if you want to lynch me you have to allow me to potentially lynch someone I wish... not somebody I have a town or even null read on. Good luck enforcing anything other than that... it's not going to happen. so knowing how I feel about it, are you willing to let me be a duelist and have some say in who I duel? If I'm not your top scumread then apply that question to that person as well. | ||
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On February 26 2013 14:23 Acrofales wrote: Before I say anything, I want to hear what Keirathi thinks of the proposed duel between him and Thrawn. yeah i'd really like to hear the answer to this kei, will you defend your honor? 10 paces at dawn? | ||
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On February 26 2013 14:33 cDgCorazon wrote: However, we can't just sit here and give the lurkers a free pass anymore. One of them is lurking while we sit around and take each other out, that bit has to be true... What do you propose that we do about it? | ||
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On February 26 2013 14:31 Adam4167 wrote: If you will not, I will. My 'bravado', ask Keirathi put it, was not an act. I'm getting the feeling that you have a town read on me.. is your scum read that strong on kei that you're willing to put both of us up for lynch? How's your read on deino going? | ||
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thrawn2112
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On February 26 2013 14:51 cDgCorazon wrote: I propose that we all keep it in mind and that people other than me remind them about it. We should go for them the next cycle because it looks like you all have your hearts set on Thrawn and Kei. I don't think we should stray away from that, but I think we should begin to attack them right after we solve this little debate. You say "it looks like you all have your hearts set on Thrawn and Kei" as if it's not what you'd choose, but then you say "I don't think we should stray away from that." Can you explain your reads on thrawn/kei? | ||
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Can you give explanations for your reads on thrawn/kei? | ||
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On February 26 2013 15:12 Keirathi wrote: EBWOP: That's why it came across as fake to me. Town doesn't benefit from your stance at all (unless you want to argue that you are more likely town than yamato), only you do. keir I feel like this point isn't going to go anywhere... what else makes you think adam is scum? | ||
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##Vote: Keirathi it'll make the thread a lot more readable now and after the lynch. tbh we probably should have done it starting in the night phase | ||
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On February 26 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote: Anyways, I'm going to sleep. I'll probably be back around lunch tomorrow while I'm on my lunch break, then gone for a few more hours. I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Tell me why. Maybe I'm just paranoid. I mean, at least he did take some kind of stance, and he's right, it was against the grain and I would normally give a few townie points for that. I'm just failing to see how, in this particular instance, his stance is beneficial to town, because I can't really predict any scenario in which he'll have to back it up. The problem is that it doesn't matter if I grant you the point or not... it's a pretty small piece of evidence to base an entire scum read on. I could see it being responsible for maybe 10% worth of a scum read. I'm much more interested in anything else you have to say. | ||
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thrawn2112
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I say that you are not scumhunting. Your desire to duel me is based on a meta read. Is there anything else? Does the meta read still apply? You have been carrying on about this point against adam and as I've already said, I don't think much can be gained from discussing it any further. Overall your suspicions are weak. Can you give me a good explanation of why you are willing to duel me? If it wasn't you dueling me, who else would you want to be a duelist? | ||
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thrawn2112
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adam mind explaining why you had to call for the duel right now? | ||
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can you explain keir's townie responses to your prods that you're talking about? | ||
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is this the townie response? he buddies you and puts words into adam's mouth. (afaik adam never actually directly tried using that logic to give himself townie points... there is only keir's accusation that that was what happened) | ||
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Also I'd like you to do a write up of why you think everyone should vote for keirathi. You pushed Dieno all game so I need to know why you dueled kei and not dino | ||
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1) both scum. this is dumb but if it's true then it's not a possibility worth worrying about. win-win 2) both town. if this is the case then we are fucked either way. lose-lose 3) one town, the other scum. win-lose Option 3 is the only option worth worrying about. If 1 is true, it's a win-win and if 2 is true we're in a lose-lose. So there's not much use in considering either option as a real possibility. 1/2 might be true but in either case there's nothing we can do about it. So now we are in a position where it makes sense that for the rest of the cycle, we might as well at least assume that only one of them is likely to be scum. Don't place your votes based on which option you think is the lesser of two evil, I want reasons for why the person you're voting for has a higher chance to flip scum than the other. Which explanation makes more sense: A townie haves an emotional omgus reaction and duels his accuser or a mafia player making a similar omgus styled play? Then you have to look at each of their filters. Even if you like keir's point about adam's possible self-promotion, you cannot ignore that it's all keir has talked about. He's said a few things about how I wasn't playing up to my town meta, and lately he's said that I've been hopping around on thread sentiment. These points are lazy and anyone could make them. And those 2 'reads' are keir's entire contribution to the game thus far. I am having a hard time believing that out of all the things that have happened in the thread, an early meta read on me and the tunneling of a single point about adam is all he would be able to come up and be suspicious of if he were town. | ||
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imo keir is the only sensible lynch and i'm having a hard time understand all these arguments that say otherwise. (cept for double lynch, but really only as a backup plan in case nobody will only lynch keir. the arguments concerning double lynching don't really have much to do with whether keir or adam is more likely to be scum, just that statistically it might be a better move than one lynch) there is only one thing that makes me concerned to lynch keir and that's how easily and peacefully hapa voted for keir. but we can deal with that later | ||
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On February 27 2013 08:49 Oatsmaster wrote: I dont know thrawn, your points seem to be meta related, but keir isnt lurky as scum either. The point is that they are both not playing to their own metas, but scum Adam has so much more to gain from this duel. it's not meta related if his play here doesn't match up with his town or scum play. I'm not making a meta case, I'm making a "what has keir done this game?" case. the issue is that what's he's brought forth in terms of scumhunting so far has been extremely lackluster. ffs, he's only mentioned 2 players this whole time.... look at his filter. He ONLY talks about adam/thrawn. For both reads, he's been repeating himself for awhile now. Look at times he talks to players that aren't thrawn/adam... does he look suspicious of them? Everything he says that doesn't relate to his thrawn/adam reads is said in the most neutral and non inflammatory manner possible. In fact even when he's talking to either thrawn/adam, I can barely detect suspicion in those posts. he's not really scumhunting, he doesn't sound suspicious in general, and the two things he claims to be most suspicous of are either pretty trivial in the grand scheme of things (the single point about adam) or ridiculously easy statements to make (lurking thrawn meta read) | ||
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On February 27 2013 10:00 Sylencia wrote: To sleep? I went off at 12am... I don't really understand why there's such a need to announce everything you're doing. In any case, if you're asking that were you going to follow up with a question? It's not like I'm incapable of reading a question you post in advance... syl can you answer my question from earlier: On February 26 2013 19:00 thrawn2112 wrote: syl why isn't keir scummy to you? what's so surprising about people wanting to lynch him? | ||
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why did you shoot keir right then and therre? why not dino? any scum reads you have outside of those too would also help. | ||
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On February 27 2013 11:23 zarepath wrote: Ok thrawn here with a baby on my lap. what do you want i wanna know why it's so hard to tell what you really think about the upcoming lynch. you said a bunch of stuff about how you hate the duel, how neither adam or keir are suspicious enough to be lynched on their own... but you also made a big case against adam and called him "really scummy." yet you aren't voting for him? wtf are your actual motivations? | ||
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On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote: Keirathi + Show Spoiler + Timeline: - disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will' - says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread - puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado - tries to advance our dueling policy - says he is willing to duel Thrawn - argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy - gets called out by Adam - general defending Summary: As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything. ##Vote: Adam4167 You were "completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir." You looked at keir's filter and couldn't find anything scum-motivated. Are you fucking serious? How could you possibly not be suspicious of keir, regardless of what you think about adam? | ||
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On February 27 2013 11:33 Dienosore wrote: Keirathi + Show Spoiler + Timeline: - disagrees with Thrawn's stance to just 'let things happen as they will' - says Thrawn is currently his biggest scumread - puts suspicion on Adam due to his rogue bravado - tries to advance our dueling policy - says he is willing to duel Thrawn - argues a bit more with Adam about dueling policy - gets called out by Adam - general defending Summary: As I said earlier, I was completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir. I've gone through Keir's filter a few times since the duel was called, but I still can't find anything that sticks out as obviously scum motivated. Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile. The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn. It's true his activity has been a little slow, but not so much that I'd see any reason to raise any alarms. Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything. anyone. Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph: "Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile" "The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn" "Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything." Those things are not suspicious? wtf | ||
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that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. keir's actual alignment probably doesn't even factor into it. town dienosore should not be looking at someone who hardcore lurked and only introduced 1 unique point to the thread and seeing them as not scummy. | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:01 Dienosore wrote: Maybe I am blind and have been missing something, but why is Keir obviously scummy? I'm not trying to argue here, I'm just looking for an honest discussion. If you have a good reason why Keir should be shot over Adam, I'm all ears. As it stands now, I just don't see it. keir has done fuck all this game........ that is something which is generally regarded as suspicious behavior. his only 2 reads so far are on 1) Adam: this read is entirely based on that one issue of whether not adam is maliciously trying to gain town cred 2) thrawn: he's only supported this read with meta. it is not very difficult for anyone to call out a lurker. when I called hiim out asking him to duel, he said he would but he didn't seem enthusiastic or eager to do so.... which if were town, thinking that I'm scum, he would be eager to duel his scum read | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:03 zarepath wrote: @Thrawn: It's pretty clear why I didn't vote for Adam -- I explain it right at the end of my post. Because this format works off instant majority and not a time frame, there is no way to unvote out of a majority should something big come up that shakes everything up. I would rather wait for everyone to chime in before I place my actual vote, because if I contribute to an instant majority, I basically let half of town get out of this entire cycle without having to make a stake on anything. So yes, my vote will be on Adam, but not yet. zare if you are town, remember the most recent newbie. what happens when people are scared to vote and to push their reads? 3 vote lynches happen. You are obviously nowhere near hammering adam so there's no need for you to wait on the thread first. If adam has 6 votes and you're scared he might get hammered prematurely you can always remove your vote. there's no reason not to vote unless you are the hammer vote. | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:14 zarepath wrote: Is Keir more scummy than Sylencia or Snarfs? And can't you say the exact same thing about Adam -- he basically only had 2 reads, and they were Dieno and Keir? this is 100% beside the point. sylencia and snarfs are not getting lynched today so I don't know what point you're trying to prove. and noo...... you cannot honestly try to compare adam's filter with keir's filter to see who is scumhunting and say keir is doing an equal or better job than adam. | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:16 Acrofales wrote: The main question is: is Dieno capable of making coherent cases? I was looking over PU and it is the worst possible game to try and read back into. It is clear from his filter that Risen, at least, was not convinced by his scumhunting. Nevertheless, his reads when he died were on 3 scum. The 3 completely obvious scums, but scum all the same. If I recall from CT, his maps were not useful, but he was actively analysing in a coherent manner and not missing obvious shit like Keirathi being virtually AFK. Insofar as I know, Dieno has never rolled scum. It could be as simple as that. I don't have a problem with dieno looking at kei/adam and deciding that adam is the scummier one. The problem is when he summarizes keir's play as lurky, safe, etc and doesn't seem to be the least bit suspicious. | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:25 cDgCorazon wrote: Sylencia are you ever going to come here and be active? My patience has run out on you. It's obvious that you are not trying to improve your game and that you really do not care about the lynch. You are dodging questions and not helping town at all. You're scum just sitting here and letting us kill each other off. Your lack of a read gives me the feeling that there are two townies up on the block, and that you are just choosing one to not look indecisive. Your answers to my arguments are subpar, and your lurking is unacceptable. corazon you're scum aren't you. i really hope you are. | ||
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1) you were willing to support the kei/thrawn lynch while having nothing useful written about either of them 2) now you are calling both of the lynch candidates town. that is not how you decide who to lynch... you have to decide which of the candidates are scummier. the question of "who out of adam/keir is most likely scum" is not a conversation that you've shown any real interest in so far. | ||
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First, sylencia is not up for lynching today is he? So what is your point? ************* reads cor's filter *************** Ok, so in the only part of you filter where you do talk about why you're voting for adam, you call adam town more times than you actually call him scum. Do you think he's scum or what? You keep going on about how both the lynch candidates are probably town, and what good does that do us? Why won't you help figure who we should vote for? | ||
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On February 27 2013 12:58 iamperfection wrote: by the way for you information whores out there if you actually want information my plan gives us the most infromation. We get to know kier's and we get to know adam's alignment how much more information could you want!!!!information is fine, but having knowledge of their alignments will do us no good if we don't try to decide which of them we'd rather kill first. so i think we should save double lynching for later, and see what the majority would say if we were only allowed to lynch one of them | ||
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On February 27 2013 14:15 cDgCorazon wrote: The fact that you still have not changed your meta makes you look REALLY scummy. that right? that's pretty weak.... why are you imposing that he change his meta to match a specific standard of your choice? | ||
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I'd rather vote based on the 'lose-win' scenario than the 'lose-lose slightly less' scenario. So do you have anything new to add to the keir vs adam discussion, focusing on which of them could be scum? | ||
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double lynch | ||
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his desire to duel seems to have some sort of win-con type motivation. it's not like he and keir were really going at each other at the time. keir was not pushing adam veyy hard. adam volunteered to duel keir in my place... way before enough people had commented on the original idea of thrawn vs keir if you look at the circumstances, the motivation for a townie to do what he did doesn't seem to be there. | ||
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-we're in a closed 15 player setup. it's a little expected that there might be a third party. i've personally seen people lynch 3p reads and they flip 3p -you can't be too certain that keir is scum. if keir flips town, the thread will probably waste time on adam until he eventually gets lynched at some point later on -this is an excellent example of a time when you actually need to policy lynch just to keep games playable. imagine if this happens again? every day? you've been bitching about how shitty the lynch is, so here is you chance to put a stop to it | ||
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imo it's much better to just get it over with and flip them both now please don't vote based on trying to prevent a double lynch, especially not right now. a doulble lynch can't happen for several more hours, there is still more time. | ||
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On February 28 2013 05:49 Acrofales wrote: Hi Thrawn That's my first conclusion from this lynch. yeah sorry for the bad start. i had weekend college, and i was stoned for the first time in awhile... both of which made this game hard to take seriously at the beginning there are some good things that came out of this apart from flipping scum. imo we have almost confirmed adam as not scum. (myself probably too) and there is a wealth of information in the posts from the dueling phase. i've also aquired some pretty strong town reads throughout D1. i'm quite happy about that bit. i'll post more later but for now...... + Show Spoiler + | ||
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hapa acro oats dieno snarfs syl that's in no particular order. i'll try to put it in order later. i don't think i'd be ok with lynching anyone outside of that unless we get a couple mislynches first | ||
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iamp is pushing the right thing every time I look at him and he looks pretty townie besides that not alderaan because he was being very vocal about pushing a keir lynch over letting a double lynch happen. i'm reading his filter right now and he looks like someone who had several reads wrong and was legitimately surprised by keir flipping red. | ||
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Deino/Syl: Do either of you think the other person deserves to be lynched and would you be willing to duel them? | ||
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On February 28 2013 06:58 Acrofales wrote: I prefer Zare/Sylencia. Zare looks REALLY terrible with the Keir flip. if zare is scum then this would have to be bussing: + Show Spoiler + On February 28 2013 00:38 zarepath wrote: I'm becoming more and more convinced that Adam isn't scum, mostly because I haven't yet found a satisfying answer to why Scum Adam would do what he did, unless it was to save Thrawn from having to duel, at which point the whole thing is a stupid association case. So I went into Keirathi's filter with some more open eyes. I hate first post town claims. Remember, thrawn wasn't on-board witht he "two scummy people duel" idea. He said making all those policies was pointless. So thrawn, why exactly do you want Hapa to duel? Do you think he is scum, or town? What is your ideal scenario for a duel? A strong townie vs a scum suspect? Or two scum suspects against each other? He gets on Thrawn AFTER everyone else has already. This is actually pretty late in the thread. I don't like that Keirathi's first "real" contribution is piling on top of Thrawn with everyone else and not actually contributing much, just asking Fake Interrogator Questions. On February 26 2013 10:50 Keirathi wrote: It wasn't a pointless question (and thrawn never answered it either). Thrawn came out and said "hey guys, forget all this policy stuff, its pointless. Just play!" Then, despite having no other mention of Hapa, as soon as other people start talking about him, thrawn was like "oh yea, hapa should duel tomorrow!" There's not even a read in there, since he took no stance on who *SHOULD* be dueling. It was just jumping onto thread sentiment with no thoughts towards Hapa from himself. After Thrawn again. Marv has been vocal about Thrawn's scumminess all thread, and it's basically the only thing that Keir is going after. It looks like sheeping. On February 27 2013 03:58 Keirathi wrote: I thought it was just a stupid move. Arbitrarily, I think it was scummy because he cut off all discussion about other candidates, and felt like just straight OMGUS because I was trying to get some discussion out of something I viewed as scum motivated. So was it "just a stupid move," or "scummy?" At this point everyone has declared it a very stupid move, so that's an easy sheep opinion to have, but also calling him scummy -- you either think he's scummy or stupid town. Then he had the gall to say that he dueled because I was trying to back out of a half-assed scum read? I feel like this is too emotional... phrases like "he had the gall" just seems too whiny to be substantive. And for two, what happened to his scum read of Corazon earlier on night 0? Oh right, he backed out of it because of further discussion. Hell he even went so far as to say that he wasn't a "tunnel machine" and that he pulls out of tunnels all th e time. But if I try to get some discussion about something that I view as scummy to see if I'm just being paranoid, he gets all holy roller and pulls the trigger on the duel. This isn't a case, it's whining. The situation reminds me a lot of GSL 3 (i think?). I saw something that I genuinely viewed as scummy and brought it to the thread. I took a lot of flak for it, but the difference is people were willing to discuss it with me while they were calling me scum. And as I talked it out more, and got some other perspective views, I changed my read. Why is he bringing this up? What's the motivation? He's basically saying that this is exactly like the time he was town, except only if Adam HADN'T dueled him, and if his scum read was wrong and needed to evolve. That's absolutely not a case on Adam, because in this meta reference he was wrong about his scum read, and Adam is his scum read in this case. Honestly the only connection I can see being relevant in the context of this post is the fact that he was town before. And bringing up a meta case like that, just for the sake of looking more town, in the middle of a post that is supposedly supposed to be your thoughts on Adam, seems scummy. I don't like that he doesn't make a case on Adam and is only whining about being dueled. And I also don't like that he hasn't made a case on anyone/anything else SINCE being dueled. On February 27 2013 03:48 Keirathi wrote: My reads haven't changed. I still think thrawn is likely scum because of his jumping around following thread sentiments, and I still see possible scum motivation in the Adam thing that I was trying to talk about. I'll write up some more later this evening when I get home, but I don't think an hour is enough time right now. It's been a night and he hasn't posted his reads. It's convenient that NONE of his reads have changed... but he didn't even HAVE reads on anybody other than those two people. Sure he still thinks what he thought about them, but he literally hasn't thought ANYTHING about anybody else, and hasn't even bothered to think ANYTHING since? On February 26 2013 16:03 Keirathi wrote: I'd appreciate it if someone could look at my points about Adam and give some comments other than "lol bad". Wanted people to talk about Adam, really wanted it bad. On February 26 2013 14:49 Keirathi wrote: I would be fine dueling thrawn. Why would town be fine with dueling? It's not like Keirathi even had a great case on Thrawn. Although, at the same time, why would scum be fine with dueling? Like others have said, NOT wanting to duel looks worse if you're scum. I don't know how to read this, but it's a very clear statement of intent for somebody whose ONLY read has been Thrawn, and hasn't even built a real strong case on him. ##Vote Keirathi Adam isn't scum. I just don't see the scum motivation for what he did at all. then he pushed keir pretty hard till the lynch. do you think he was bussing? | ||
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for duelist #1 votecount: - 1 vote for preservation purposes | ||
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so zarepath/alderaan/oats... Out of those, the person I'm most interested in atm is actually oats. Even before keir flipped red, Oats was talking in a way that made me suspicious that he knew keir would flip red. I also don't like his attitude concerning the double lynch. It's hard to tell if he actually wanted it to happen or not. I'm assuming this would be the optimal way for scum to push a double lynch when keir is getting lynched...... to add a voice to the double lynch bandwagon yet never actually join the wagon. | ||
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yamato there is no point in insta-dueling, especially considering how we have yet to hear from dieno at all so instead of being an asshole about it you should try to convince people that acro is scum | ||
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On March 01 2013 01:41 zarepath wrote: Honestly, Acro looks way more town for his double-lynch idea than the people who adopted his double-lynch strat -- iamp and Thrawn. Mafia must have started the day thinking they could protect Keirathi, and the least committing switch they could make would be to go to a double-lynch. And honestly, what looks more scummy -- making a case that somebody is a 3P and therefore we should double-lynch on Day 1, or actually believing and agreeing with it with very little justification? so are either of them scum? iamp and thrawn went from wanting keir dead (at a time when most people wanted adam dead) to wanting both keir + adam dead. acro went from wanting adam dead (at the time most wanted adam dead) to wanting both kier + adam dead (at the time when most people wanted keir dead) and you are saying that acro is most likely town out of that group? | ||
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On March 01 2013 01:51 Acrofales wrote: Show me one moment in this game. A single moment anywhere after D1 started where I did NOT want Keir dead. On February 26 2013 19:50 Acrofales wrote: Caught up with the last page of posts now. Yamato brings up a good point. Syl brings up another. Keirathi's case was ALL about how Adam was only out to prove his townieness. Whether the case was good or not at the time is moot, I kinda liked Keirathi's later arguments for it. What I gave Adam townie points for are subtracted by Adam giving himself townie points for: it shows he was aware of how his posts are different from his scum meta. While I'm not sure it is as easy as that to change your scum meta, it is definitely possible to keep it up for a day, which is all he has done so far. + Show Spoiler [adam's post] + On February 25 2013 13:28 Adam4167 wrote: I call you emotional because I just cant see the logic behind wanting the two people causing the most discussion to duel each other. Mafia that sit in the spotlight almost always fry, and as a general rule, try to avoid it. The likelyhood of either of us being scum is not good as a result. In your hypothetical, Id kill whoever was displaying the least value to the town, as in nomination mafia. We aren't all going to agree with every lynch, and there will come a time when you may have to choose between two people you have some form of a town read on. If we all unanimously agree on all our reads then either a) our reads are wrong because the scum are agreeing with us, or b) the scum team is so inept that they got clean swept. Reemphasizing the bolded part. This is incredibly disingenious. He seems afraid the point where he is going "against the grain" will be missed and therefore needs to reiterate that fact. Especially dropping his name in next to Yamato with the "either of us". Dueling Keirathi brings this to the next step, given his motivation: I want to prove that I can read scum. Except, he didn't. He OMGUS'd based on a general thread consensus that Keirathi is scum. NOWHERE does he actually give a read on Keir, other than: This doesn't say Keir is scum, it says Keir made a bad case. One which in hindsight wasn't even that bad. Adam is overly concerned with looking like town. The whole game he has harped on about how Dieno is scum. If his real motivation is to prove his own reads are so good, why is he not dueling Dieno? I will look at his meta now. What I do know is that Palmar caught him in such a gruesome manner in Hero mafia (it's all on video) that Marv, his scumbuddy, felt forced to bus him early on D1. If that isn't a motivation to try to change up your style, I don't know what is. Here is a large post about both adam and keir. This was from fairly early in the dueling cycle. You read this post and get the sense that acro is favoring saving keir and lynching adam. He never actually states this though. There is no conclusion about what his actual reads are but you can tell he's suggesting that adam should be lynched. Here's when acro votes for keir via double lynch: On February 26 2013 20:59 Acrofales wrote: I browsed Keirathi's filter in what seems to be his only scumgame ever and I agree that he was active and manipulative there. However, he now has a ton of town games loading on pressure to perform as scum. I wouldn't put too much stock in Keirathi's scum meta. His play is still wildly different from his town meta, which is far more developed. I still don't see enough in his play to consider him town. Note that he never actually calls him scum, or points out anything specifically about his play that is scummy... just that he can't consider him town. | ||
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i agree that acro has done some scummy things but it'd be ridiculous to put him up for lynch today. especially vs yamato. in the meantime, dieno once again i'd like to see some maps, and interpretations of what the maps may mean | ||
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Look at this reply to adam: On February 25 2013 12:17 Dienosore wrote: At the time there were like three people posting, one of which wanted to duel. The general consensus wasn't exactly agreed on when I wrote that. (Is it even agreed on now?) I was simply throwing my weight behind the plan to use our time to think things through. Because his alignment is unknown right now, I wanted him to not be so hasty in his decision to duel so we dont accidentally shoot a towny. Then I proposed the idea that we shouldn't use duels as a second lynch until someone has been absolutely confirmed town. He has backed off a little bit since all this was written, so whatever, it's moot now. However, I still think my idea is sound. If you disagree, please explain why. Just me being friendly. Would you have been happy if I just followed suit and jumped on the anti Corazon bandwagon? And it wasn't a nothing paragraph... I was asking for someone (anyone) to volunteer more info. Information is power in this game, so I didn't really expect a detailed answer to my question. I went fishing and came up empty, big deal. I'll continue fishing until I get a bite. As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now. Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town. Bring it on. Look at how confident and eager to duel dieno is: As for changing your mind, I have a feeling that no matter what I say you are still going to be gunning for me. Yes, I think you pushing for a instant duel with your first post is super scummy, especially when we have more than enough time to deliberate and come to a general consensus as a group. I can't see any town motivation in what you are doing right now. Which, ironically enough, means that we should duel. If I lose the vote and die, I'll flip green and you will have condemned yourself even further. If I win, then scumball down, victory for town. Bring it on. yet after adam backs down, dienosore comes in with this: On February 25 2013 13:11 Dienosore wrote: Good to hear that you are willing to disarm, even if ever so slightly. Unfortunately, I am not the best scum hunter. I rely on my maps a lot, as you probably know, which usually require days of information and copious cross referencing before the incriminating connections really stand out. I'll try to whip up something before I go to bed tonight, though. and here are the rest of his comments on adam until the duel took place: "I've cooled off a bit on Adam. If he still wants to get some, I'm here to call his bluff, but I think our time is better spent looking at a few other people right now. His level of activity is about 10x's what I have seen in past games already" So it seems like Dieno's main motivating factor in originally wanting to duel adam was entirely because adam wanted to duel dieno. Dieno's scumread on adam consists of nothing, like he is only dueling to defend his namesake or some shit. This is odd because you should only be wanting to duel your strong scumreads and I don't get the feeling that Dieno had a strong scumread on adam. After adam backs down, Dieno does nothing about his read except to state that he's cooled off and want to focus on other things, but also that he's ready and willing to duel if adam wants to. So does dienosaur have a scumread on adam? Does it look like a scumread that is strong enough to be the basis of a duel? Keirathi has already shown that mafia will accept a challenge when directly called out, and I'm not convinced that dieno truly wished to duel adam in a townie way.... the way that a townie would want to duel somebody they have a strong scumread on. Keir and dieno are similar in this regard as they express a very diplomatic attitude towards dueling. They will accept a duel, but it looks more like they are accepting because of appearance reasons rather than scumhunting reasons. If I was called on to duel, I would only be willing to duel a select few people. This is because as town you are only willing to duel your strong scumreads. Deino didn't express a "i think he's scum and i'm willing to own up to my read" attitude, he had a "if he wants to duel me, i'll duel him" attitude. That is not a townie-motivated approach to dueling. + Show Spoiler [stuff i've already said] + On February 27 2013 11:39 thrawn2112 wrote: ok this is the type of bs that's pissing me off: You were "completely surprised by Adam snapping on Keir." You looked at keir's filter and couldn't find anything scum-motivated. Are you fucking serious? How could you possibly not be suspicious of keir, regardless of what you think about adam? On February 27 2013 11:45 thrawn2112 wrote: dienosoe let's walk though that summary of kei's play Here are your main points about keir, taken from that bottom paragraph: "Other than a bit of back and forth banter mostly discussing dueling policy, he has kept a relatively low profile" "The only real aggression shown has been directed towards a scummy looking Thrawn" "Overall, I'd say he has been playing it overly safe, if anything." Those things are not suspicious? wtf On February 27 2013 11:57 thrawn2112 wrote: that dienosore is hella scummy for not being suspicious of obviously scummy keir. keir's actual alignment probably doesn't even factor into it. town dienosore should not be looking at someone who hardcore lurked and only introduced 1 unique point to the thread and seeing them as not scummy. The theme of those posts is that Dienosore isn't suspicious of a obviously suspicious lurker. This is a scumtell. I scumslipped exactly like this in lviii by not being suspicious of a guy who dropped off in activity. I have no issue with the fact that he chose adam as his scumread. The problem is when he fails to understand the idea that keir's lurking is suspicious. He eve labels keir's play as "overly safe, kept a relatively low profile, etc." Yet he is not suspicious of keir at all for those things! He is mostly absent from the most important part of the thread thus far, the part of the thread where a scum was up for lynch. He pushes nothing during this time, he has no agenda except to make weak arguments to defend keir here: On February 27 2013 12:16 Dienosore wrote: @Adam: If you really were under zero pressure and not in danger of a lynch, then why not let Thrawn and Keirathi duel it out? I'm 95% sure that's the way the duel was heading until you jumped in. Why put yourself in danger like this? @Thrawn: Adam has made an equal number of reads this game. Considering how the duelers are pretty similar in this regard, I don't see how their volume has anything to do with determining their alignment in this situation. On February 27 2013 12:31 Dienosore wrote: Of course its a little suspicious, but we are still so early into it that I pretty much have that level of suspicion on everyone. Once you start doing big things to needlessly shake up an already unsure game, then you get put on a different level. and he throws this at Oats: On February 27 2013 16:05 Dienosore wrote: Wait, hold on... Did I read this right? Quoting this for preservation purposes. Not only does this seem ridiculously forced, dieno hasn't done anything with it. His only mention of or interaction with Oats was asking oats to clarify something somebody else said. so yeah.... we should lynch dieno tomorrow. the only question should be how do we lynch him. I'm 100% in favor of letting him pick his opponent. hapa, idk what thread you are reading where my play suggests i'm a survivor, or that I haven't been fearless, or that i could have possibly bussed keir. what is your point with all that? Are you wanting to lynch me? | ||
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*only interaction or mention of oats since near the bottom there right before that last break | ||
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On March 01 2013 08:55 Hapahauli wrote: No I don't want to lynch you for now. There are three people I want to see dead before I even consider lynching you (Dino, Syl, Cora). As for why I think you're a third party, you are more passive than I'm used to seeing out of you. You're also more aggressive than I'm used to seeing out of your scum-games. You fall somewhere in the middle, and the simplest explanation is that you're a Third Party. In the last few town-games I've seen out of you, you started off with stupid random comments/votes designed to spurr discussion, and you were super-active in the early-game as well. You started off the opposite this game. In addition, I'm used to seeing more scum-hunting contributions from you. Your only major contribution is your recent case on Dieno... http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=398360¤tpage=75#1489 my major contribution is calling out keir for a duel way back when and yelling at anyone who said adam should be lynched and not keir but whatever, i really don't know what filter you could possibly be reading. which is a complete rehash of my own case on him on Day 1. Not to mention that it's an overkill case that serves no purpose, since virtually everyone here wants to see Dieno hang. nobody is talking about dieno right now. we've asked him to post and stuff but he's not..... he's run off while we got into discussing acro. imo it's obvious that it's going to be a hassle to get him to duel so might as well keep yelling at him until he's willing to talk about the duel in a serious way. | ||
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If I had to pick one to lynch it'd probably be dieno. Yes, dieo has risen to the occasion to duel syl. But like his earlier promises to duel adam, I think the duel is more about his own appearance than it is about trying to kill scum. Neither of them have produced very much lately despite being here to make posts, but at least syl has been able to produce a scum read (Cor) and provide ample reasoning for it. yeah.... both should die, but i'm currently more impressed with syl's recent efforts than I am with dieno's | ||
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##Vote: Dienosaur | ||
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On March 01 2013 10:18 Hapahauli wrote: Why is it counter-productive? I think it encourages the two people we need to talk the most (Syl and Dieno) to talk more. i'm worried that most people are going to go for this double lynch thing and not commit to picking either side. Do you really think that it's most likely that both of them are scum? If you think there's even a small chance of them having different alignments then it's beneficial to know which one the thread wants to lynch. it's much easier for scum to justify a vote later on in the cycle as opposed to right now. and if you're worried about dieno and syl not feeling pressured if we don't immediately go for double lynch.... don't worry about it. i'm sure they know exactly what position they're in. | ||
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I don't need to really wait for everyone's posts to come in before I know that the thread probably wants to kill both of them. There's nothing to be gained by stating the obvious. So I think picking 1 to die, and 1 to live is worth talking about. after we decide which of them is scummier we can start the circle lynch double jerk | ||
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On March 01 2013 09:07 Dienosore wrote: This town obviously isn't big enough for both of us, Sylencia. ##Duel: Sylencia Here's where that quote came from: On March 01 2013 07:55 Sylencia wrote: I would much prefer it with Corazon, but I'm not going to put a random duel out there if everyone doesn't agree on it. If Deino remained missing without an explanation until now I would've considered him a lot more but he's here now, and my wanting to duel him has increased since he's made this gem of a statement: No explanation, this is the first time he's ever mentioned me in a post, and he gives no reinforcement to his claim. At least everyone else has done something to show that I am potentially scummy but Dieno just sheeps onto that thought and is now riding it. What.... that post from syl is actually pretty good imo. Dienosaur completely took that quote out of context in order to justify his duel. Syl is not saying he wants to duel deino, he'd rather lynch Cor. The whole premise of this duel is stupid, it's very obvious that dieno is more concerned about keeing up appearances rather than lynching his top scumread. I am now against double lynch, here's why. -Two people get pressured to duel each other, because they are the scummiest in the thread. -Syl is hesitant to duel, and would rather duel his top scumread, Corozon -Dieno is eager to duel, on the basis that syl is warming up to the idea of dueling dieno Dieno's read on syl comes from nowhere. He's just doing this because we told him to, not because he cares about lynching scum when means we should lynch him. | ||
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On March 01 2013 11:08 Acrofales wrote: K, given Dieno's case some consideration and I actually like it. I had dismissed that whole Cora/Syl spat, but that post about blues IS weird. Diving back into Sylencia's filter again. dienosore completely misrepresented what syl was saying. dieno was saying that syl was looking for blues to claim or something, right? syl was referring to blues not being scared to enter duels: Because of your piss poor attitude when things don't go exactly the way you want it to. Anyways, I odn't see anything that's particularly out of the ordinary about the policy that Hapa is suggesting. I think even as a blue role it might be better to just put yourself out there and have a good defense. Reluctance makes you suspicious in town eyes, as well as suspicious on the mafia side. | ||
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On March 01 2013 11:37 Dienosore wrote: Would you have preferred if I quoted this one instead?: As I explained to Acro, Syl is currently my top scumread. Maybe you didn't read my case. I'd hardly say that my read "comes from nowhere". that case came after you dueled syl. there's barely anything in your filter that suggests you had a strong enough read on syl that would make you want to duel him. so what is your 2nd strongest scumread? 3rd? etc | ||
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Give me the most basic statement you can summarizing syl's play, and why you think he's scum. Keep it as short and as to the point as possible. | ||
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it made me think I should reconsider my dieno read, so i did..... but he still looks like scum. i can't justify saving either of them | ||
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that being said i'd like to know who you would vote for if you had to pick one. | ||
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On March 01 2013 14:34 Adam4167 wrote: Thrawn, can you argue any of the points I made earlier on this page about this not being a two-scum lynch? I was originally thinking that too. But there may be 3 scum left.... and if that's the case, then having 2 scum duel today isn't as ridiculous as if there are only 2 scum remaining. On March 01 2013 14:34 Adam4167 wrote: Assuming you start with the premise that dieno is scum, which I have no issue doing as his filter just smacks of scum. Read sylencia's filter. It also smacks of scum. Do you have any problems with syl being scum or are you just thinking that both can't be scum? | ||
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thrawn2112
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##Vote: Dienosore | ||
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do you agree/disagree with this? | ||
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Does anyone know what syl's reads are? (no) there is some stuff recently about cor, and of course he claims adam is scum. but that's it. oh I was reading the thread and this was funny, and true: On February 27 2013 15:03 cDgCorazon wrote: So you have a null read on him? Let's forget my meta argument for a second. Let's take a look at what he has done this game: -Lurked at multiple important points in the game (he has 13 posts when many of us have 60+) -Many of his posts are short, have no real point, and are of no value to the town -Promised scum reads but never delivered on them -Trying to fly under the radar, only brought out when someone asks for it -Sits on the middle of the fence for this lynch, showing he does not really care about the lynch It has scum written all over it. Is there anything I'm missing? If I have to assume that both aren't scum (which i'm conflicted about atm) I am taking syl's side against dieno. kinda waiting for syl to show up before deciding if I want double lynch | ||
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does that mean I'm a scum read? same question for all of the names in your d2 analysis... are those people scum? | ||
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##unvote at least like 12 more hours | ||
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On March 02 2013 07:00 zarepath wrote: Hhonestly guys, I haven't had time today to keep up on the thread. I see a really easy Dieno lynch, and before the duel that would have been my inclination, but now I kind of want to double lynch just to be sure. Part of me says that we can't afford the potential double-mislynch, but even then we'd know exactly who to look at from there. And I'm pretty sure at least one of them is scum. which one of them... what are you going to do... etc | ||
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##Vote: Dienosore syl goes up for lynch tomorrow regardless of what dieno flips | ||
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gj | ||
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1) zare vs syl 2) zare vs x 3) syl vs x 4) syl vs Cor 5) hapa vs x x meaning they get to chose who to duel | ||
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Town adam, Acro, Aldeeran, Corazon, yamato, Oats WTF Hapa, Snarfs Mafia zare, syl For all of you asking why syl could be mafia..... well why not? The entire thread was screaming for them to duel each other, do you really think that two scum won't duel each other if you yell at them enough? And Syl's play has definitely not improved during the duel. In fact dieno probably put more of an effort in once the duel started. Syl still doesn't have reads.... etc. Just read any page of Cora's filter and you will get a good idea of why lynching syl is stilla good idea. Hapa is who I'm gonna look at next. He half assed his choice between syl/dieno. He did say he would lynch dieno if it was just one, but that he wanted to wait and see what dino/syl produced. But no, hapa has not been in here judging either of their play. After taking the most neutral stance possible, he afk'd from the rest of D2. so yeah... as I'm writing this, hapa probably belongs in the mafia group. need to go through his filter first. Snarfs.... I know almost nothing about his filter off the top of my head, but I remember having a town read on him last time I bothered to go through his stuff. | ||
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zare was in big red because he's scum, k? i don't need to write an essay to show how zare's d2 is probably the scummiest part of the thread. but more importantly oats, why so srs? @Oats: what're your reads on me, hapa, and zare? | ||
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All that said I don't want to focus on him tomorrow. I'd much rather see zare or hapa on the stand. Either one of them + syl would make me a happy boy. | ||
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On March 02 2013 13:52 Oatsmaster wrote: My problem with that list post is that you mentioned all the people who werent town, except Zarepath even though he is your top scumread. what is this? dunno what u mean | ||
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If there's something you want me to explain then just ask. you're just throwing shit at me whilst having a town read on me, doesn't make any sense. new list: scum: zare hapa oats syl | ||
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syl isn't allowed in the dueling ring unless we mislynch 2 townies without lynching scum | ||
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On March 02 2013 14:18 thrawn2112 wrote: ok i propose a truce: syl isn't allowed in the dueling ring unless we mislynch 2 townies without lynching scum Cor what's wrong with this plan? We're in a good enough position that we can delay lynching syl to clear up other stuff first. | ||
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so, dueling party at deadline? don't forget your gun i'm not dueling snarfs. haven't even read his filter recently. plus town gets no info from thrawn flipping town. hapa please reread my filter in its entirety and let me know if you are srs about this | ||
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On March 02 2013 15:29 Hapahauli wrote: We'll deal with that tomorrow. I'm more concerned about talking about relevant things. Once again, your vote on Dieno. Explain. On March 01 2013 18:22 thrawn2112 wrote: If I have to assume that both aren't scum (which i'm conflicted about atm) I am taking syl's side against dieno. kinda waiting for syl to show up before deciding if I want double lynch also if you read my filter it is pretty obvious that I'd lynch dieno over syl any day. what is the issue you have with my vote? your case is that i voted for guy who flipped red, while I should have voted for double lynch? yes I wanted to double lynch, and I also preferred dieno over syl. i don't exactly see what you're trying to accuse me of... especially since syl is unflipped. while we're on the topic of voting actions during d2, lets look at yours: On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote: Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected. Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town. and that's all you did. you didn't stay in the thread talking about dieno's/syls's post or give anaylsis about which might be scum or which might be town. you didn't do anything. whats the story of your suspicions on me this game? when did they change and stuff etc, leading up till now | ||
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you did nothing yesterday. you immediately decided that they should both get lynched and that they should prove themselves town. then you disappeared from the thread until after the flip did either of them prove they were town to you? if not, then why were you not talking people out of a double lynch? you made no significant contribution in a day where a scum was lynched, and we made a major decision not to stick with the plan of double lynching. | ||
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thrawn wanted both dieno and syl dead thrawn decided to only kill dieno .......... thrawn is scum??? I can't answer your question because it doesn't make sense. Why didn't I decide to kill syl? Read my back and forth with Adam where he convinces me it's logically smarter to only kill 1 of them. The 2nd to last time I voted Dieno my mind was basically made up. I only unvoted because I wanted to stall the cycle out longer to let people such as yourself post first. After awhile the thread was going nowhere so I re-voted. | ||
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the MAIN problem is that I have no fucking clue how a town hapa could be pushing me like this. he is probably the most qualified person on TL to correctly guess my alignment. | ||
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On March 02 2013 16:25 Hapahauli wrote: I'll answer that for him. Either I'm town, or I'm scum that decided on the brilliant strategy of bussing all of my teammates at points where it was completely unnecessary for me to do so. Uh huh. bussing all of your teammates instantly would be the only smart way for mafia to survive this game. everyone had been calling dieno and keir scum since their first posts. | ||
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On March 02 2013 16:35 Hapahauli wrote: That's what I'm trying to decide right now. You're not responding to this like I would have expected scum-Thrawn to tbh. I still can't for the life of me see why you wouldn't take the opportunity to kill two birds with one stone. Here's how it goes: I decided they are the scummiest in the thread and both should duel. I decided that Dienosore was the scummiest. I spent the rest of the cycle trying to figure out if the idea that 2 scum would agree to a duel is a bet worth taking. I decided it wasn't, so I only lynched one of them. | ||
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yeah I think he is. i'm tired right now so making a big fancy case is too much work. i'll do it later. if you wanna know why he's scum, look at his filter starting here read how his reads change from when keir first got called out, till right before adam's duel, and to after the duel. look at the justification yamato uses to lynch adam instead of keir. yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow | ||
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On March 02 2013 19:39 thrawn2112 wrote: oh damn yamato... could you be scum? yeah I think he is. i'm tired right now so making a big fancy case is too much work. i'll do it later. if you wanna know why he's scum, look at his filter starting here read how his reads change from when keir first got called out, till right before adam's duel, and to after the duel. look at the justification yamato uses to lynch adam instead of keir. yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow yamato went from wanting someone to hang keir, to voting to lynch the person that hanged keir. that in of itself is a good enough reason to put him on the stand tomorrow READ ALL OF THESE THEY ARE IMPORTANT: On February 26 2013 15:59 yamato77 wrote: Honestly, I want to see Keir hang. Someone make it happen. Sylencia is another one I could live without right now. My null reads from earlier have returned to the thread and done fuck all to make me think they're townie. Time's a wastin' On February 26 2013 16:05 yamato77 wrote: "Not seeing town motivation" is not the same as "seeing scum motivation". A point I learned well lately. You'll have to do better than that to justify a red read on Adam, Keir. On February 26 2013 17:34 yamato77 wrote: What I fail to see the town motivation in here is Adam wanting to cut off all discussion about the read in general. Keir's last point he made was actually a salient one, that Adam professing his own towniness over his actions is a scummy thing to do. I really don't want to lynch him now that I understand his thought process about this read, because while I initially disagreed, it seems more likely now that this might be the case. I don't think a town Adam has as little forethought as to make a decision like this one and duel someone on a whim. While I proclaimed that I would duel my scum reads, I never intended to do so unless I felt like it was necessary to secure a lynch, which is not how I think the situation was playing out today, lest I would have done so myself. This action is quite anti-town. However, it does make a lot of sense if Adam is mafia, because this has pro-mafia written all over it. Over-aggressive, OMGUS, and discussion haltering in nature. Also, while he's putting himself on the line, he's doing so IN LINE WITH THREAD SENTIMENT, which was that Keirathi was mafia, and Adam was the town. Just like in Nomination, mafia are wont to do things that seem risky and townie, so long as the real risk is low. The only reason I honestly thought Adam was town before this was because his mafia reputation is super easy to catch and lurky as fuck. I don't know how to read him now, but I think he's a better lynch than Keir, simply for the act of dueling him right now. If he's town, it was a colossally stupid thing to do, and it doesn't make me any more convinced that Keir is mafia, nor has he done a whole lot of in-depth analysis to prove this point. ##Vote: Adam he spends the lynch cycle promoting the idea that we might have two townies: On February 27 2013 16:44 yamato77 wrote: So let me break the game down here, because I have a decent idea of what's going on. Based on the complete uselessness of both parties involved in this lynch, Adam and Keirathi, I think the likelihood of them both being town is high. Mafia in this position would be more concerned with the possibility of being lynched here, and do something about it. Neither of these players seems to be trying particularly hard to live, so by default they're probably just town. It's unfortunate that one, or perhaps both, might die in this situation, but if I had to pick one, I would pick Adam. Keirathi, I think, is the better town among the two, and could potentially be valuable to us later on if left alive. That said, at this point, it doesn't matter too much to me which one lives, because I don't think either of them is particularly useful this game. THAT said, I don't want both to die. The mere thought of a double lynch is hilariously stupid in this situation, and I don't like the idea of not choosing either of them at all. Mafia have an unprecedented ability to hide in this situation, because they don't even have to FAKE a read on a player and justify it, they can just say they think they're both worth lynching and not vote, causing a double lynch. So who is doing this? Iamperfection. I initially thought he was fairly townie, but his interest in this lynch is tremendously low. Like, I don't think he's given a read on either of these people that was longer than a sentence or deeper than "He's mafia because XX and I said so." In fact, that's basically how all of his reads have been so far, town or scum. But what is really damning, to me, is the fact that he's pushing this double lynch thing with no good logic to back it up. Acro, I can believe. Iamp is just kinda on that wagon and has pushed it without a clear motive like Acro's. If these two really are townies, like I think, then mafia is more likely to be disinterested in picking sides, and has clear motivation to want them both dead. It's the same heuristic I used to catch on to Snarfs in Nomination; mafia players don't care which townie dies, and won't spend much effort picking one. Only iamp isn't even picking one. Hilariously scummy. How in the world did yamato go from wanting keir to hang (his own words) to this, which came during the voting phase: On February 27 2013 17:04 yamato77 wrote: Keirathi's play, while indecisive, does not indicate a strong mafia mentality. His Adam read was not in line with thread sentiment, and he was only just in the process of fleshing it out. His time does seem legitimately limited, as Hapa pointed out, which significantly excuses the "scummiest" part of his play; the apparent lack of interest in the game. ????????????????????? | ||
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thrawn2112
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i got weekend classes tomorrow, so i'll be gone for a big part of the day. i'll post a more detailed version of what I want to happen but I think you get the picture. yamato needs to duel | ||
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does there need to be a finished case for you to be able to form your own opinion? you started off with "town" because he's doing insane stuff although you agreed about the suspicious 180... and now you think he's "probably scum?" Why do you think he's probably scum? When did you think this? Etc... | ||
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Are you still going to insta duel sylencia? If yes, then I am bringing my own gun to the party. I also assure you that if you get your duel, you will have my vote. I don't even care about syl's alignment right now. Think of yesterday's lynch like getting a green check on syl... he could still be mafia but the evidence suggests otherwise. There is NO NEED to waste time dealing with sylencia right now. No, we won't kill sylencia. Even if you flip green, we probably still won't consider killing sylencia. | ||
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On March 03 2013 04:14 yamato77 wrote: Lol, have two townies duel and double lynch them This is hilarious. You guys kill my motivation to play. yamato you aren't playing anyways. you rage and yell about your aw3s0mE scumreads and then when it's actually time to lynch you bugger off | ||
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-duel party (i'm srs) -plurality vote that cuts off x hrs before real deadline. winner (loser) picks who to duel. my personal favorite is #2. There seems to be many more lynch candidates than we've previously had so I think voting to select the main candidate is a good idea. they get to duel who they wish. it really wouldn't be that hard to implement as long as votecounts get done. | ||
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if yamato flips scum then do whatever the hell you want. if yamato turns out to be town I think hapa and acro should be flipped next. there is a time limit to how long certain players should be alive in a game. if you still don't get a scum out of the yam/hapa/acro group then it's time to start looking at people like corazon/oats/snarfs oh yeah... throw zarepath in there as well. you should first lynch yamato, then hapa/zare/acro in whichever order seems best snarfs = not convinced he's scum. he had a very strange development of his read on me during D1, strange in a probably-not-mafia way right now adam and aldeeran might be my biggest town reads lol. there are some players such as acro/oats whom I have townreads on, but those townreads are dependent on if we keep lynching scum. | ||
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