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In regards to those 180's, I've done them before as town. Heck, I did it with you this game. I thought 'this guy has potential to be scum, wonder what happens if i poke him', then you get an answer so far from what you were expecting that you instantly bin your read on them. This happens even more often with people you play with frequently, as Hapa, Iamp and Thrawn do.
180's without justification draw attention, just as you're proving. Unless Hapa is trying to double-fake out, a scum hapa would be more likely to back out of his read by actually putting some shitty justifications in there for his 180, like Yamato's back flip on me.
As to those quotes:
The first quote, thrawns, specifically says "kill Yamato first".
Marvs reads are horrendously outdated at this point, having not been around for a single duel. I still really respect his input, and have referenced his reads several times, but Marv also had Thrawn as "kill it with fire", only for him to flip town.
Iamp, well, he tried to get me killed also, so I know some of his reads are off the mark as well.
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Acro, i'm not arguing that Hapa is being forceful, in fact his non-forcefulness is one of my reasons for thinking hes town.
If you're going to bus there, you'd commit to it and completely railroad Keirathi.
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He has explosive rage because someone complied with his wishes to 'see keirathi hang'. He said "someone make it happen".
Someone did. Someone he had a town read on. It should have been an open and shut case for Yamato, he asked for it, got it, vote goes down, exactly like Thrawn did.
And you didn't have a townread on me, you had 'not playing to scum meta, but null'.
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I never made the point that it was an expert bus because it was forceful?
It wasn't. Which makes it unlikely to be a bus. Scum want to ride a bus for all its worth to get something out of losing a team mate.
You can throw your vote back on Hapa, i reread the relevant part of the game, I still think Hapa will flip town.
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I still find it more likely than most.
Someone has to die here. I cannot agree to it being Hapa, so by default - Yamato.
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I was scum in both of those games you mention, so id like to think ive been on the info side of two of the better busses in the last year. Its given me a good perspective of what is likely to be a bus and the trademarks of a bus, hence why I latched onto Z-BosoN in chrono.
I do not see this as a bus. If it is, I will give Hapa much more credit from now on, because this was really well done.
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Yeah, it just doesn't make sense.
Dieno overreacted badly to my pressure on D0, plenty of people went completely silent on it, Hapa wasn't one of those. Drawing attention to your teammates fuckups so early on N0 is unlikely, as acro has already pointed out, scum don't bus unless they have to.
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EBWOP: D0 should be N0, but w/e.
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On March 05 2013 12:56 yamato77 wrote:
Let the double lynch happen
I doubt Hapa flipping mafia would change Adam's mind about me anyway, and I don't really want to be in another one of these things.
Seriously, quit the fucking sulking, its getting old.
You called this duel and put up a shitty case, why am I going to respond to that with anything but suspicion?
Here's your case, here's my answer:
On March 03 2013 18:39 yamato77 wrote:People still want me dead? I'm flattered you guys think I could do what I've done this game as mafia, but for real, I am town. Will be posting that case on Hapa I promised sometime soon. Or.... Right now. Show nested quote +On February 27 2013 04:13 Hapahauli wrote:On February 27 2013 04:10 Acrofales wrote:
Let me get this straight, Hapa: you think it's entirely possible Keir is town, but think killing him is the lesser of two evils? If you were a pardoner, would you consider stopping this lynch? Yes and yes. None of my top scumreads are on the block right now. This is Hapa's official stance on the lynch day 1. He won't pick one and call them a bonafide scum read, he'll just call Adam town and lynch Keirathi based off that. This reeks of being extremely non-committal and basically just following thread sentiment, which was against Keirathi before the duel and only slightly shifted after the duel was called for. Town Hapa has balls. This Hapa does not.
Your whole argument for this section is that town hapa has balls and this hapa has none. I've disagreed multiple times. It takes balls to go against the crowd sentiment. I've also outlined why I don't find this likely to be a bus, because he didn't milk it for anything.
On March 05 2013 12:56 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On February 28 2013 15:54 Hapahauli wrote:On February 28 2013 15:45 thrawn2112 wrote:
hapa, who do you want to be in a duel and how do you propose to do it? and who would you duel yourself? My full proposition for tomorrow is this: I'd like Dieno and Sylencia to duel, unless one of them starts showing some significant townieness. I'd also like to double-lynch 'em by default and leave it up to them to prove that they're town individually. If one of them does, I'd add Corazon to the list. As for HOW we should go about that, well you can only start by asking nicely. If that doesn't work, we can probably force one of them to duel the other by threatening to have Adam duel one of them (which is basically a vigi-shot given that there's no sane way that Adam's scum). As for who I'd duel myself, I wouldn't duel period. I think my voting actions speak for themselves yesterday. I get that I'm less active than usual, but it should be obvious that I'm playing to town objectives. Nor do I get the sense that there's any support for me dueling tomorrow (besides iamp anyway). If you're asking for a top scumread - it's hard to differentiate between Dieno/Sylencia since they've both played nearly identical games. Put a gun to my head, and I'd say Dieno on the basis that Sylencia has a history of being lurky as town in some of his newbie games, whereas Dieno's town performance in CT was pretty darn active. His stance that he never changes for the day 2 duel. Of note is that mafia dieno magically called for this very duel after Hapa posted this, and Hapa got to push this very agenda; one of killing both Dieno and Sylencia. Again, he takes no strong stances regarding the lynch.
Coincidence. And thrawn called for this duel way before Hapa did. Thrawn took the exact same stance as Hapa did. How can you use this as conclusive proof of Hapa's guilt? It is not anything of the sort.
On March 05 2013 12:56 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 09:29 Hapahauli wrote:
Oh Dieno pulled the trigger. That went easier than expected.
Anyway, by default I want you both dead. It's up to both of you to indvidiaully convince me that I'm wrong and that you're town. Extremely odd coincidence, IMO, that Dieno calls for this duel. Hapa's response is also odd, that he felt the need to comment on it. Almost as if he knew it was going to happen, and planned this stance in advance...
Dieno called for this duel because I threatened his life if he didn't. The rest of this is just rubbish and complete speculation.
On March 05 2013 12:56 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 14:36 Hapahauli wrote:On March 01 2013 14:27 thrawn2112 wrote:
i hate it tbh. but there seems to be no other sensible option.
that being said i'd like to know who you would vote for if you had to pick one. Dieno. Pretty sure I mentioned that before. No vote backs this proclamation up. This is the problem with allowing people to sit on their asses with the "double lynch" stance, it lets mafia look townie while really doing nothing. I did a good job explaining this in my Acro case, and what Hapa is doing here is nearly a carbon copy, only the effort he puts into it is pathetically small, and I don't think town Hapa would avoid taking a side in this race.
Thrawn said "if you had to vote for one, who would it be" not "You have to vote someone, so where is it". It was a hypothetical question. He was not forced into only voting one, so his lack of vote here means nothing.
On March 05 2013 12:56 yamato77 wrote:Show nested quote +On March 03 2013 08:26 Hapahauli wrote:
Anyway Yamato, this whole "HAPA IS MAFIA OMG" is nearly identical to the shit you pulled in British Mini Mafia.
You were Mafia, and suddenly a switch snapped and you were foaming out of the mouth that Mr.Cheesecake was scum beyond all rationality. This is a bold-faced lie. I, as mafia, am tunnelly and completely irrational, because that's how people think I am as town. Have I played that way this game? My reads have certainly changed; it's basically what people have been attacking me for this whole game. While you may not believe the reasons I give for these changes, the fact remains that I have explained them as well as they needed explaining. For Hapa to compare this game to British is absurd. He's drumming up a scum read on me because thread sentiment is turning against me. I want to duel Hapa today. If I'm in a duel, I'm dueling him, or someone is dueling me. Let it happen.
Self-meta analysis, something I got dumped on for. I haven't read the game in question so I don't care to comment on it either direction. You say you've explained your read changes well, I don't find the explanations satisfactory, we're at an impasse on this one apparently.
I made it very clear after Iamp posted that apparent joke case that if people put forward decent cases, I would back them. So quit the fucking pity party and come up with something better than that case - if the best you have is "his meta is different" then i will counter that with "so is mine - and therefore your argument means nothing to me".
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Activity does not indicate alignment.
Your entire argument there is 'He wasn't around'.
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Hapa, you might want to get back in here at some point.
Your activity is starting to irk me.
When I get irked I make rash decisions. Ask Keirathi.
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It means i'm getting sick of tired of going back and forth with you, when that's what he should be doing.
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I admit, your dogged persistence is starting to wear me down.
His absence really is not helping that.
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God, that's so manipulative.
Say I were to hammer him. Where does that leave us for tomorrow?
If he flips town, what do we do?
If he flips scum, then what?
I feel like the answer to both questions is going to be kill Zarepath. That kind of bothers me a bit.
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I want to see what Alderan has to add to this before I do anything.
He's going to add something to this discussion, for future reference.
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On March 05 2013 17:14 Oatsmaster wrote:
Its 3am EST
Only us SEA/Aus people around now except yamato.
Why is it wrong if we want to kill zarepath tomorrow?
If both outcomes result in the same answer, it doesn't really feel like we learned much from today.
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........ if you are town, you really need to work on the questions you ask people.
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Yeah, I've got nothing. If hes town, ill be really unimpressed with his commitment to this game.
##Unvote
##Vote: Hapahauli
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He went through all that effort to put on a really good bus, then went completely AWOL...
Yep, confused.
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Wait, that means Acro legitimately thought I was 3rd party?
How in the hell did you come up with that o.o
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EPT
